Scoring question [Archive] - Glock Talk

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johnhurd
08-06-2012, 20:32
scoring receipt shows one target on "M" short one hit\miss the shooter signed and didn't notice, what is usually done at HQs when they run the numbers???

DannyR
08-07-2012, 01:57
GSSF will apply a 10 point penalty for the unrecorded hit because the shooter signed the card as being correct. It is the shooter's responsibility to examine the score before signing.

johnhurd
08-07-2012, 04:47
Thank you

Glockrunner
08-07-2012, 05:04
scoring receipt shows one target on "M" short one hit\miss the shooter signed and didn't notice, what is usually done at HQs when they run the numbers???

Many folks can be intimidated by the RO scoring targets but here is a trick that can maybe at least save you 10 seconds:

Walk back with the RO and, as you approach the target COUNT the bullet holes on the target (there should be six for all double tapped) to ensure they all hit. If you don't see six, start looking for a double hit (one hole that could be two) and check around the outer parameter of the target for nicks!

Don't ask how I learned this. Nobody likes misses.:crying:

johnhurd
08-07-2012, 05:33
This was the next day neither the RO or the shooter caught it I saw it when the shooter sent me his scores.....................

ede
08-07-2012, 09:28
I've had GSSF give me credit for hits that weren't recorded, nor were they scored as a miss, simply not socred one way or the other.

SARDG
08-07-2012, 09:41
I've had GSSF give me credit for hits that weren't recorded, nor were they scored as a miss, simply not socred one way or the other.
I've repeatedly seen that regarding the popper in M. Paper? dunno...

unclebob
08-07-2012, 10:28
Many folks can be intimidated by the RO scoring targets but here is a trick that can maybe at least save you 10 seconds:

Walk back with the RO and, as you approach the target COUNT the bullet holes on the target (there should be six for all double tapped) to ensure they all hit. If you don't see six, start looking for a double hit (one hole that could be two) and check around the outer parameter of the target for nicks!

Don't ask how I learned this. Nobody likes misses.:crying:

If there is any question on a double hit. Have the RO pull the target. And have the range master say yes or no.

SARDG
08-07-2012, 11:27
If there is any question on a double hit. Have the RO pull the target. And have the range master say yes or no.
...OR, and pursuant to RO Notes on each Course of Fire in The Glock Report:
"Benefit of the doubt is awarded to the competitor."

Typically, if a scorekeeper has to look at it more than 2 or 3 seconds to make a decision, it goes to the shooter. Bryan Dover took a Mike though during his last match, as no one could spot a double or a 6th hit.

I remember a scorekeeper at Reevesville making some questionable calls on some of my targets where I certainly would have given me the benefit (he had to look for 10+ seconds and get 2nd and 3rd opinions) - but I didn't argue. Still won a gun in that Division! Ya' just never know.

unclebob
08-07-2012, 11:44
...OR, and pursuant to RO Notes on each Course of Fire in The Glock Report:
"Benefit of the doubt is awarded to the competitor."

Typically, if a scorekeeper has to look at it more than 2 or 3 seconds to make a decision, it goes to the shooter. Bryan Dover took a Mike though during his last match, as no one could spot a double or a 6th hit.

I remember a scorekeeper at Reevesville making some questionable calls on some of my targets where I certainly would have given me the benefit (he had to look for 10+ seconds and get 2nd and 3rd opinions) - but I didn't argue. Still won a gun in that Division! Ya' just never know.

Yes, but you have some RO that have not heard or read the rules. I have even had a RO tell me if I touched the target again that he would DQ me.

ede
08-07-2012, 11:50
When I work the Plates and RO Bama he gets 6 hits with sub 3 seconds runs, but I do make him fire 6 rounds just to make it look like he's really done something.

The few times I RO a paper stage for most shooters if they're anywhere near a line I give the higher score. I sure do spend much time trying to figure out if it is on or touching the line.

lethal tupperwa
08-07-2012, 12:13
do you really make bama paste the plates?

kyglockshooter 2.0
08-07-2012, 12:25
...OR, and pursuant to RO Notes on each Course of Fire in The Glock Report:
"Benefit of the doubt is awarded to the competitor."

Typically, if a scorekeeper has to look at it more than 2 or 3 seconds to make a decision, it goes to the shooter. Bryan Dover took a Mike though during his last match, as no one could spot a double or a 6th hit.

Thats just because bryan was showing how he can make two bullets go through the same hole and only make it look like one hole. Its his fault for being able to do that. Just kidding. When i cant find a round on the target i always check the target and if i cant find it ill accept the mike.

SARDG
08-07-2012, 12:32
Yes, but you have some RO that have not heard or read the rules. I have even had a RO tell me if I touched the target again that he would DQ me.
That's because in other disciplines, if the competitor touches the target, they can be DQed. I have had 'kids' helping to score GSSF who come up to the target and punch at each hole with their finger while counting - some of the kids are 30 or 40 years old. Anyway, that destroys the hole for critical examination and scoring. Therefore, everyone who does that when I RO, gets told about it. We are afterall, introducing new shooters to the world of [real] competition.

SARDG
08-07-2012, 12:34
...When i cant find a round on the target i always check the target and if i cant find it ill accept the mike.
We can only hope that the shooters are reasonable...

unclebob
08-07-2012, 14:21
That's because in other disciplines, if the competitor touches the target, they can be DQed. I have had 'kids' helping to score GSSF who come up to the target and punch at each hole with their finger while counting - some of the kids are 30 or 40 years old. Anyway, that destroys the hole for critical examination and scoring. Therefore, everyone who does that when I RO, gets told about it. We are afterall, introducing new shooters to the world of [real] competition.

In the 13/14 years I have been shooting and ROing Glock matches, I donít think that I ever had a person try to punch holes in the D-1 target with their finger or anything else. If the person target looks like it was shot with a shotgun I well look a little closer. If they have a nice little group. I donít even think twice about the 6th hole or even third hole in case of Maj Sub. The oneís Iím more careful with are the Master class shooters for obvious reasons. Iím also very lenient on scoring when they are close to the line. If the person does not like my call, I just pull the target. I think that has only happened once.

BamaTrooper
08-07-2012, 15:14
do you really make bama paste the plates?

I have Ede weld the plates unless I shot them with 10mm, at which point he just cuts more plates.:tongueout:

SARDG
08-07-2012, 15:14
In the 13/14 years I have been shooting and ROing Glock matches, I donít think that I ever had a person try to punch holes in the D-1 target with their finger or anything else.
Not punch holes IN them Bob - the holes are already there. Scorer's 'count' the shots by poking at each hole - sometimes with significant force. This potentially enlarges and distorts the hole - ergo the DQ in some shooting sports. I can honestly say that in my ~2 years of shooting and ROing GSSF, and without any exaggeration whatsoever, that I have never had a match where people don't do this - even dozens of people over a weekend period. It seems our experiences are different... :)

If the person target looks like it was shot with a shotgun I well look a little closer. If they have a nice little group. I donít even think twice about the 6th hole or even third hole in case of Maj Sub. The oneís Iím more careful with are the Master class shooters for obvious reasons. Iím also very lenient on scoring when they are close to the line...
My procedure(s) as well - except no one touches the target prior to scoring or I tell them about it! :embarassed:

BamaTrooper
08-07-2012, 15:15
Be near the targets and just over the ROs shoulder. If you see a different score than he calls out, draw his attention to the discrepancy before they get taped.

Make sure your hits add up before you sign the score sheet.

unclebob
08-07-2012, 15:37
Must be your winning personality.

SARDG
08-07-2012, 15:43
Must be your winning personality.
I know you ain't talkin' 'bout me. I don't have a winning anything - especially personality! :rofl: :tongueout:

youngann
08-08-2012, 06:36
I know you ain't talkin' 'bout me. I don't have a winning anything - especially personality! :rofl: :tongueout:

I don't know about that, Kitty, you certainly won me over when we met in SC earlier this year. Looking forward to seeing you at some other matches.

ron59
08-08-2012, 08:09
Not punch holes IN them Bob - the holes are already there. Scorer's 'count' the shots by poking at each hole - sometimes with significant force. This potentially enlarges and distorts the hole - ergo the DQ in some shooting sports. I can honestly say that in my ~2 years of shooting and ROing GSSF, and without any exaggeration whatsoever, that I have never had a match where people don't do this - even dozens of people over a weekend period. It seems our experiences are different... :)


I've shot close to 20 of these, and I can't recall one time somebody touching the target "to count the holes". No, I"m not an R.O. standing around all day to see every shooter come through, but methinks you have your exaggeration hat on today?

SARDG
08-08-2012, 09:30
In the 13/14 years I have been shooting and ROing Glock matches, I donít think that I ever had a person try to punch holes in the D-1 target with their finger or anything else...

I've shot close to 20 of these, and I can't recall one time somebody touching the target "to count the holes"...
Oh man... go ahead; beat me, beat me! :crying:

Not only is my statement true and correct as far as it's stated above Your Honor, but it has actually been worse than originally stated. I have had kids (more than once) come up to (run out to) the targets and actually put their big fat pen through the bullet holes on the target(s) before they were scored.

I think you two guys must be sleepwalking at these matches. :tongueout:

I was discussing some of this offline with another GSSF shooter and told him that with material from only 2 years of GSSF ROing that I could write a book. I generally RO two or sometimes 2 1/2 days.

ROing at GSSF is rather unique too. In local club matches, you train an occasional new shooter and move on, not usually having to repeat the same things over and over. In other disciplines for regional/state matches, you generally find more-experienced and repeat shooters who basically need NO training. In GSSF, shooters and ROs are constantly being replaced with more (additional) inexperienced shooters and ROs so some things are simply ongoing - like fingers and pens in bullet holes... really! Honest Injun!

johnhurd
08-08-2012, 16:50
Well they "awarded" him a miss..............

ede
08-08-2012, 18:25
Well they "awarded" him a miss..............

call or email GSSF and ask about it, if it really matters.

Glockrunner
08-08-2012, 18:42
call or email GSSF and ask about it, if it really matters.

Just what other "Hit" can he get without subjecting his score to vile claims of cheating.

I do have sympathy for the having to suffer the error but it is a good lesson learned IMO. (Like that matters):cool:

SARDG
08-08-2012, 20:48
I don't know about that, Kitty, you certainly won me over when we met in SC earlier this year. Looking forward to seeing you at some other matches.
Hi ya' Ann. We were neck-and-neck in Reevesville, eh?

Are you coming to Conyers? Heck, Scott (PM720) is coming from CA - surely you can make it.

k

PM720
08-08-2012, 22:16
Hi ya' Ann. We were neck-and-neck in Reevesville, eh?

Are you coming to Conyers? Heck, Scott (PM720) is coming from CA - surely you can make it.

k

Shhh!! I'm trying to get the long distance award Glock! :dunno: :whistling:

Scott

youngann
08-09-2012, 04:51
Hi ya' Ann. We were neck-and-neck in Reevesville, eh?

Are you coming to Conyers? Heck, Scott (PM720) is coming from CA - surely you can make it.

k

Conyers? No way we would miss that match! We've already got our hotel booked. :cool:

SARDG
08-09-2012, 08:45
Conyers? No way we would miss that match! We've already got our hotel booked. :cool:
Come see me at an M somewhere - I've already reserved my RO preference - just not certain where exactly in that vast complex.

PM720
08-09-2012, 09:10
Come see me at an M somewhere - I've already reserved my RO preference - just not certain where exactly in that vast complex.

Do we need a GPS to navigate around there? :dunno::cool:

Scott

SARDG
08-09-2012, 09:50
Do we need a GPS to navigate around there? :dunno::cool:

Scott
I do - but I get lost as soon as I leave my driveway. And they've built more ranges since I was there last.

PM720
08-09-2012, 17:39
I do - but I get lost as soon as I leave my driveway. And they've built more ranges since I was there last.

And I suppose your job in the service was....... NAVIGATOR?? :whistling::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Scott

SARDG
08-09-2012, 17:59
And I suppose your job in the service was....... NAVIGATOR?? :whistling::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Scott

Operations Specialist, but did RADAR navigation. Either way, I need an electronic crutch. :)


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emtjr928
08-09-2012, 18:17
I was giving an address to one of my friends from high school. Told him to just put it in his GPS. (Knew he had one) He said "I can't, I lost it!":faint:

PM720
08-09-2012, 19:58
Anybody remember Thomas Guides? :crying:

Scott

kyglockshooter 2.0
08-10-2012, 22:37
Yes, but you have some RO that have not heard or read the rules. I have even had a RO tell me if I touched the target again that he would DQ me.

i would have stuck my finger out and put my finger on the target. Ha i touched it, now remind MR.RO when i was reading the glock report which section is the one on if shooters touching targets are subject to dq. to people who give their time i thank you but no way could i treat that guy with any level confidence.

SARDG
08-10-2012, 23:05
i would have stuck my finger out and put my finger on the target. Ha i touched it, now remind MR.RO when i was reading the glock report which section is the one on if shooters touching targets are subject to dq. to people who give their time i thank you but no way could i treat that guy with any level confidence.
Any GSSF RO that mentions touching a target and DQing in the same sentence is likely coming from another discipline where that's true - and in that case, probably has more general experience than your average GSSF RO.

Have you ever heard "Range is clear" at GSSF? That's not a GSSF command - that's USPSA.

Remember Rule 20.05 - one of the first rules in The Glock Report:
"The fundamental mission of GSSF is to introduce
new shooters into the world of competitive shooting..."

If we are introducing them to competitive shooting, it may be nice for them to know that the world of competitive shooting doesn't end at GSSF.

As I said in a former post, if someone touches the target (holes) before it's scored (and someone ALWAYS does in the course of a weekend), I let them know that that's not allowed in some other competitive diciplines.

Hey, I don't get out my overlay! :wow: