FAST & FURIOUS isn't what you think it is-- [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Skyhook
08-09-2012, 12:15
Mind boggling..

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/high-ranking-mexican-drug-cartel-member-makes-explosive-allegation-fast-and-furious-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/

callihan_44
08-09-2012, 13:07
the obama cartel helping out fellow criminals across the border, Im interested to hear the response of Hugo Obama defenders on this one

Skyhook
08-09-2012, 13:48
the obama cartel helping out fellow criminals across the border, Im interested to hear the response of Hugo Obama defenders on this one

:popcorn:

<crickets>

jakebrake
08-09-2012, 14:28
the obama cartel helping out fellow criminals across the border, Im interested to hear the response of Hugo Obama defenders on this one

keep waiting. if it isn't on d.u., it didn't happen...

the mainstream will never report on it. huffpo will ignore it, msnbc has 2 viewers.....

it'll be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Brian Terry's family will know no justice.

Bren
08-09-2012, 14:35
At least the cartel guy has a story that makes more sense. There was no logic to, "we let them have the guns with no monitoring and tracking, so we could catch gun runners." Compared to that, I have to accept the "supplying one cartel to help them kill others" story as the most believable.

jakebrake
08-09-2012, 14:36
I have to accept the "supplying one cartel to help them kill others" story as the most believable.

sort of like swatting the competing drug gang? only, in a considerably less responsible manner?

G19G20
08-09-2012, 14:49
Ha! Called it.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19113327&postcount=80


They're hiding something bigger than F&F. Obama could have thrown Holder under the bus a long time ago when this was still buried by the MSM and made it go away. This executive priv means that the documents themselves are extremely damaging and probably lead to other things like long-rumored DEA drug smuggling operations and cartel cooperation. Either way, F&F is a gateway to something bigger and they sure don't want to turn over those docs. I doubt we'll find out.

And don't make this an Obama thing. This sort of crap has been going on for a LONG time, across many Presidencies of both parties. This is the black ops crap they all do in the background. The info is there to be found if one chooses to look for it. The Feds have been called out for a long time for being facilitators in the drug game, while simultaneously busting Americans for using the drugs. Nice little racket the US gov't has going.

jakebrake
08-09-2012, 14:51
^^^^so, why hasn't rp brought it to light?

Jerry
08-09-2012, 22:07
The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 — during both Fast and Furious and Bush-era gunrunning operations — as long as the intel kept coming.

See! It's all Bush's fault. :rofl:

Legalize drugs and all this crap would stop. But just think how many lives that would ruined and how much it would cost the American tax payer. :upeyes:

countrygun
08-09-2012, 22:39
See! It's all Bush's fault. :rofl:

Legalize drugs and all this crap would stop. But just think how many lives that would ruined and how much it would cost the American tax payer. :upeyes:

But remember, legalizing drugs, and opening the borders are the goals of true Conservatives, thats what a Paul supporter told me.

G19G20
08-10-2012, 04:09
^^^^so, why hasn't rp brought it to light?

He has! He's been railing against the federal drug war for a long time. I can look around for exact videos if you'd like. Plenty of vids on YT of interviews, just search Ron Paul drug war and stuff like that. Whether you investigate deeper into what he's saying is your choice.

This is from the 80's!
Is the CIA Involved in Drug Trafficking? "I think George Bush is deep into it" - Ron Paul - YouTube

Cavalry Doc
08-10-2012, 04:45
This sounds a bit fishy still. If the plan was to arm a cartel, why use straw purchased guns?
There are a lot of different ways we could have given them untraceable guns from other countries.


I'm not sure I buy this, it's an awfully good excuse that we were working on something to protect America. Top secret, can't tell you about it.

Bren
08-10-2012, 06:15
The thing about F&F is, even if a top guy from ATF comes out and says "here's what we were trying to do" that doesn't make it so, even if he's telling the truth. In the big picture, ATF's reason for F&F may not be the same reason that it was really put into operation.

JFrame
08-10-2012, 07:02
The thing about F&F is, even if a top guy from ATF comes out and says "here's what we were trying to do" that doesn't make it so, even if he's telling the truth. In the big picture, ATF's reason for F&F may not be the same reason that it was really put into operation.


That's a valid point. It could have been hatched as one premise higher up the chain, and sold as something else entirely farther down. Even if someone lower in the food chain questioned it, it was unlikely s/he would countermand the directives from above.


.

JW1178
08-10-2012, 07:29
This actually makes more sense than what the government's story does.

This sounds a bit fishy still. If the plan was to arm a cartel, why use straw purchased guns?
There are a lot of different ways we could have given them untraceable guns from other countries.

I can think of 3 reasons.

1. These are Beurocrats here, they really can't seem to do anything right, they may have just slipped up here.
2. Of course they could have sent truckloads of AK-47's they picked up out of Iraq and Afganastan but I don't think they really thought it would be exposed.
3. Holder and Obama wanted to reinstate the AWB the first week of him being in office. They insisted weapons from the US were going to Mexico. Turned out that few of the weapons siezed in Mexico were from the US, a vast majority were from the Mexican military. So... they needed some more proof to "prove" that the weapons were coming from the US.

I think this is apart of the political kiss-butt system of who gets to run the different Beuros of government producing a bunch of idiots running critical parts of our government.

By the way the feds are acting, I do think they have something to hide. Well, they are hiding something, that is a FACT. Either it's just severe negligence, or there is something more sinister. Either way it needs to be exposed and those responsible held accountable.

whoflungdo
08-10-2012, 07:40
If this were true, don't you think Obama and Holder would be shouting it from the mountain tops that Bush started this, Bush did this, it was worse than we thought, we were trying to fix this rather than exerting Executive Privilege?

JFrame
08-10-2012, 07:42
If this were true, don't you think Obama and Holder would be shouting it from the mountain tops that Bush started this, Bush did this, it was worse than we thought, we were trying to fix this rather than exerting Executive Privilege?


Yet another good point...


.

Goaltender66
08-10-2012, 10:06
”the Sinaloa Cartel under the leadership of defendant’s father, Ismael Zambada-Niebla and ‘Chapo’ Guzman, were given carte blanche to continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs into Chicago and the rest of the United States and were also protected by the United States government from arrest and prosecution in return for providing information against rival cartels which helped Mexican and United States authorities capture or kill thousands of rival cartel members,”

...says the guy who was extradited, arrested, and is being prosecuted.

Skyhook
08-10-2012, 10:14
”the Sinaloa Cartel under the leadership of defendant’s father, Ismael Zambada-Niebla and ‘Chapo’ Guzman, were given carte blanche to continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs into Chicago and the rest of the United States and were also protected by the United States government from arrest and prosecution in return for providing information against rival cartels which helped Mexican and United States authorities capture or kill thousands of rival cartel members,”

...says the guy who was extradited, arrested, and is being prosecuted.


Ya, I sent the original to a friend who is DEA in CA and he said he would really like to see the claimant's sources, back-up info.

When so damned much is recently being run 'beneath the radar', who knows what's what, anymore?:faint:

Chuck TX
08-10-2012, 10:47
This sounds a bit fishy still. If the plan was to arm a cartel, why use straw purchased guns?
There are a lot of different ways we could have given them untraceable guns from other countries.


I'm not sure I buy this, it's an awfully good excuse that we were working on something to protect America. Top secret, can't tell you about it.

Two birds one stone. Thin the heard with drug cartels and undermine the 2nd with one operation.

It very well may have started with good intentions, but we know where that can lead.

Glock30Eric
08-10-2012, 10:58
We aren't doing much about it. Sad.

Bren
08-10-2012, 14:51
If this were true, don't you think Obama and Holder would be shouting it from the mountain tops that Bush started this, Bush did this, it was worse than we thought, we were trying to fix this rather than exerting Executive Privilege?

No, because the President of Mexico would be the obvious key man in the whole "help my cartel wipe out the others" scam and Obama and Holder got tight with him and got personally involved in year 1 of the Obama presidency.

My real question is, how will Kurt Sutter work this angle in the next season of Sons of Anarchy? If the president and attorney general get involved with an outlaw motorcycle club, to support drug cartels, it's going to be too unbelievable for TV (maybe not for real life) and the hollywood types will be offended.

Cavalry Doc
08-10-2012, 18:13
”the Sinaloa Cartel under the leadership of defendant’s father, Ismael Zambada-Niebla and ‘Chapo’ Guzman, were given carte blanche to continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs into Chicago and the rest of the United States and were also protected by the United States government from arrest and prosecution in return for providing information against rival cartels which helped Mexican and United States authorities capture or kill thousands of rival cartel members,”

...says the guy who was extradited, arrested, and is being prosecuted.

Probably as part of a plea deal. The waters have now Been sufficiently muddied to move on with the re-coronation.

Skyhook
08-11-2012, 06:16
As more details filter through the slime, we get some idea as to how Chicago on magnum steroids thinks.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/mexican-drug-cartel-used-fast-and-furious-gun-in-failed-assassination-plot.aspx


Mexican Drug Cartel Used "Fast and Furious" Gun in Failed Assassination Plot

Posted on August 10, 2012


'Just when you think the news about the disastrous "Fast and Furious" gun-walking operation can't possibly get any worse, a U.S. government report has disclosed that Mexican drug cartel operatives used a firearm from the infamous scheme in a failed attempt to assassinate a high-ranking Mexican law enforcement official. "

Bren
08-11-2012, 06:24
”the Sinaloa Cartel under the leadership of defendant’s father, Ismael Zambada-Niebla and ‘Chapo’ Guzman, were given carte blanche to continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs into Chicago and the rest of the United States and were also protected by the United States government from arrest and prosecution in return for providing information against rival cartels which helped Mexican and United States authorities capture or kill thousands of rival cartel members,”

...says the guy who was extradited, arrested, and is being prosecuted.

That he is being prosecuted doesn't necessarily call the whole plan into question. There could be many reasons for that, including that the people prosecuting him are not part of the plan. Obviously, every US attorney and assistant in the country doesn't know about things like this, if true.

automatic slim
08-11-2012, 07:32
The thing about F&F is, even if a top guy from ATF comes out and says "here's what we were trying to do" that doesn't make it so, even if he's telling the truth. In the big picture, ATF's reason for F&F may not be the same reason that it was really put into operation.

There is one obvious reason for F+F, and we all know what it is.....:wavey:

jakebrake
08-11-2012, 08:19
Two birds one stone. Thin the heard with drug cartels and undermine the 2nd with one operation.

It very well may have started with good intentions, but we know where that can lead.

i agree with the first part.

good intentions? no....i'm not willing to give that one.