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21Glock
08-10-2012, 06:02
I've been reloading a long time for other handgun and rifle calibers, but have just started reloading for my Gen 4 20 10mm.
My recent loads were using AA # 7. I know it has a history of flattening primers, as it did with some of my loads.
I know some folks like AA# 9 and some like Longshot, Blue Dot, Power Pistol, etc.

I'm looking for the best overall powder for the 10mm with the lowest operating pressures with the highest possible velocities. There will be some trade offs, just wanting to reach a happy median.
Looking to get other opinions before I get my next batch of reloading supplies at the next gun show in a few weeks.

I'll be using bullet weights from 165gr. to 200gr. cast and jacketed.

Thanks!

Breadman03
08-10-2012, 08:22
From my reading, Longshot is held in highest regards. I plan on picking up a pound soon.

WeeWilly
08-10-2012, 09:07
As far as pressure, I only have the manufacturers published data to go on, so that really doesn't factor into my choices. My hurdles for powder selection is accuracy, velocity potential, metering and finally cost.

I load 180gr jacketed. I have tried Longshot, Blue Dot, 2400, VV-N105 and #9 with these bullets.

I had gotten down to three powders for 10mm a while back (BD, #9 and N105). I now only buy Blue Dot and #9 in the large bottles. Likely, eventually I will be down to large bottles of #9. I always seem to come back to #9 in magnum velocities, it is such a dreamy powder.

21Glock
08-10-2012, 09:53
Thanks for the input. I also didn't mention that I recently got a KKM 6" barrel for my Gen 4 20 as well, so I won't be shooting these loads in my stock barrel.
I'm trying minimize any smileys, pressure wise and still get high end speed.

I'm sort of leaning toward AA#9 or Longshot as well. I've heard some good things about the VitaV powders, but boy are they expensive!!

_The_Shadow
08-10-2012, 10:03
If you add cost to the decision vs. presure vs. velocity, I think it would be Blue Dot or Power Pistol. With the AA#9 you use so much more powder to get results with AA#7 doing a little more work with a little less for some bullet weights.

Blue Dot has worked very well across a broad spectrum of cartridges and bullet weights and shotgun shells. It remains my mainstay.

Recent purchases of LongShot and IMR 800X have tipped the scales at $30 + per pound.

800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.

I like LongShot in the 9x25Dillon cartridges but will start workups with 800X to compare.

_The_Shadow
08-10-2012, 10:05
P.S. Speed is not the only determining factor...Accuracy and cleanliness also play into the mix, and again Blue Dot has delivered in this arena as well.

WeeWilly
08-10-2012, 10:20
Thanks for the input. I also didn't mention that I recently got a KKM 6" barrel for my Gen 4 20 as well, so I won't be shooting these loads in my stock barrel.
I'm trying minimize any smileys, pressure wise and still get high end speed.

I'm sort of leaning toward AA#9 or Longshot as well. I've heard some good things about the VitaV powders, but boy are they expensive!!

I have a handful of KKM barrels and I think they make a really good product.

If your experience tracks mine, you will see a marked improvement in velocity potential with that longer barrel, especially with the slower powders.

On the smiley and case support thing, I am not certain this amounts to much. My experience seems to indicate that smiles are not as much a factor of where the ramp enters the chamber (at least in the later 10mm barrels) or the ultimate size of the chamber and more related to how the timing of the gun is affected in the upper reaches of pressure. That 6" barrel has to help with the unlock timing, so it likely will help keep smiles at bay while loading in the twilight zone.

What I am unsure about is the difference between a stock 6" hunting barrel and an aftermarket unit with tighter chamber and a steeper ramp and when smiles start showing up. I suspect there is some marginal difference, but in the realm of precision I load, have my doubts it is a first order concern.

In any case, for me, I have done my nuke loading and am now back to loads that top out somewhere in the 1250fps range with the stock barrel (with 180gr slugs); in that category, with the components I am using, smiles are not on the agenda if the gun is working right, so I find my KKM barrels ended up being nice paperweights.

21Glock
08-10-2012, 11:50
If you add cost to the decision vs. presure vs. velocity, I think it would be Blue Dot or Power Pistol. With the AA#9 you use so much more powder to get results with AA#7 doing a little more work with a little less for some bullet weights.

Blue Dot has worked very well across a broad spectrum of cartridges and bullet weights and shotgun shells. It remains my mainstay.

Recent purchases of LongShot and IMR 800X have tipped the scales at $30 + per pound.

800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.

I like LongShot in the 9x25Dillon cartridges but will start workups with 800X to compare.

The Reloaders Bench in Mt. Juilie, TN. has 1lb. of Longshot for about $20. I'll probably pick up some at the next gun show here in ATL area when they are there.

WeeWilly
08-10-2012, 13:11
...I'm sort of leaning toward AA#9 or Longshot as well. I've heard some good things about the VitaV powders, but boy are they expensive!!

The price you posted for local Longshot powder sounds pretty good.

I went into a local gunshop the other day and bought 3 - 1lb contains of powder (not VV's) and a brick of 209 primers. $161 + tax!

I love to support local guys and do feel for them with regard to the competitive disadvantage they have over the online guys, the nutty regulations they have to put up with, etc. , but holy cow! I think if I had to buy all my stuff local, I would likely stop reloading, just couldn't make it work fiscally speaking.

VV powders are some of the best I have tried in every application, but like buying local, it is just too much money. A normal Powder Valley invoice when I am buying Alliant, AA powders is normally $400, if I am going with VV it is $700. Ouch!

CanyonMan
08-10-2012, 14:36
My short answer is: BD and AA#9 for XTP's, to my Blue Dot 200gr HC loads in G20, and the stock barrel has seen 99.9% of all my use, and 'never one problem', and never had a smile in a Glock with OEM barrel... Ever. Very hot loads or not. I also find the OEM barrel extremely accurate at long range, for being a 'close up combat gun', and we shoot at play time out here on the ranch, at some really long distances.

Those G20 OEM barrels are good enough with hard cast or XTP's, for clean 100yd deer shots ! Can't get any sweeter than that. ;) The AM barrels are fine for a tad more brass life, but I am not yet sold on them from my experiences with them. The OEM barrels have for the 14/15 years I been shooting Glocks, never gave issue with Hard Cast Bullets up to 200grs in 10mm, and as i said, very accurate at 'long range' with this set up. I only use Beartooth and Hunters Supply, for my HC bullet needs..

So, for me, Powder wise, BD and AA#9.


Hey, good shooting and have fun with your 10mm !










CanyonMan

21Glock
08-10-2012, 14:41
If you add cost to the decision vs. presure vs. velocity, I think it would be Blue Dot or Power Pistol. With the AA#9 you use so much more powder to get results with AA#7 doing a little more work with a little less for some bullet weights.

Blue Dot has worked very well across a broad spectrum of cartridges and bullet weights and shotgun shells. It remains my mainstay.

Recent purchases of LongShot and IMR 800X have tipped the scales at $30 + per pound.

800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.

I like LongShot in the 9x25Dillon cartridges but will start workups with 800X to compare.

I may get a chance to do load testing tomorrow a.m. and want to make up some test loads for my G20 tonight. I have a couple of lbs. of Blue Dot on my loading bench I use for my S&W 500 for practice rounds.
What do you recommend to be a good warm to hot load for a 165gr JHP using Blue Dot for my 10mm? I'll be using by new KKM 6" barrel. I was thinking of about 11-11.5 gr. of Blue Dot. My Gen 4 20 has their new dual spring RSA, it feels alot stiffer to rack that other stock RSAs.

_The_Shadow
08-10-2012, 15:49
I like the 11.2 grains Blue Dot loading for that weight, they should be very accurate. If you drive the JHP's too hard they will over expanded and some will shed parts of the petals or the jackets. If the jackets roll back too much then bullet's diameter effectiveness can suffer.

Best regards!

Taterhead
08-10-2012, 22:30
In 10mm, I have used Accurate 5, 7 & 9; Alliant Blue Dot; Hodgdon Longshot, and IMR "Hi-Skor" 800-X.

Accurate no. 9 best fits the description of lowest pressure and highest velocities as far as I can tell. Like WeeWilly mentioned, we don't have pressure testing equipment. What I do know is if you stick reasonably close to manufacturer data, you are going to get the best velocities for 165 gr + bullets with Accurate no. 9. Blue Dot is close behind. I can get a 200 grain XTP to 1200 fps in my 4.6" Glock barrel at 2 tenths less than book maxes with A9. Book data velocities for a 155 gr XTP @ 1425 is pretty sweet too.

Longshot is a good powder as well, but one must venture a good ways beyond book data to get velocities up to #9 performance. A lot of folks do, and they have good results. I have not pushed Longshot that far. 800-X and Longshot are closely matched. 800-X does not meter, so I find no reason to chose it over Longshot.

#9 groups very well with warm to hot charges too. It also meters superbly. The downside, as has been mentioned, is that each charge consumes much more powder relative to other 10mm powders. However, I have found it to be less expensive than Longshot or Vihta powders.

CanyonMan
08-10-2012, 23:03
in 10mm, i have used accurate 5, 7 & 9; alliant blue dot; hodgdon longshot, and imr "hi-skor" 800-x.

Accurate no. 9 best fits the description of lowest pressure and highest velocities as far as i can tell. Like weewilly mentioned, we don't have pressure testing equipment. What i do know is if you stick reasonably close to manufacturer data, you are going to get the best velocities for 165 gr + bullets with accurate no. 9. Blue dot is close behind. I can get a 200 grain xtp to 1200 fps in my 4.6" glock barrel at 2 tenths less than book maxes with a9. Book data velocities for a 155 gr xtp @ 1425 is pretty sweet too.

Longshot is a good powder as well, but one must venture a good ways beyond book data to get velocities up to #9 performance. A lot of folks do, and they have good results. I have not pushed longshot that far. 800-x and longshot are closely matched. 800-x does not meter, so i find no reason to chose it over longshot.

#9 groups very well with warm to hot charges too. It also meters superbly. The downside, as has been mentioned, is that each charge consumes much more powder relative to other 10mm powders. However, i have found it to be less expensive than longshot or vihta powders.



+1 ;)









cm

21Glock
08-11-2012, 14:44
I tried some loads this a.m. in my new KKM 6" barrel. I loaded 10 rounds of 11gr. of Blue Dot and also 10 rounds of BD 11.5 gr. behind a 165gr. JHP bullet. I chronyed both of them . They 11gr. was avg. around 1310fps the 11.5gr was avg. 1360fps. The strongest loads so far in my Gen 4 20. I love the KKM barrel, looks like the brass hadn't been fired, no bulge, no pressure signs at all.

Blue Dot is a good powder, I might try AA#9 or Longshot, but Blue Dot isn't bad at all, doesn't meter like the AA powders, but a strong propellant nonetheless.

Thanks for the info.

nickE10mm
08-11-2012, 15:29
The more I play around with powders, the more I like Blue Dot as a mainstay. Its cheap, plentiful, accurate and gets good numbers, even if it is a bit flashy and boomy (I'm not using handloads for CCW anyhow). There is also TONS of BD data around as its been around a long time. True, it doesn't meter like Accurate, Power Pistol or even Longshot but it does well enough considering that, even though it doesn't meter as well as some, it CONSISTENTLY produces the most accurate loads over a WIDE spectrum in 10mm from light to heavy, cast and jacketed.

I think BD is simply "just right" for 10mm in burn speed and particle density.... although you can get more MAX velocity out of various other powders under many cases (PP w/ light bullets, LS with light to heavy, 800X with any weight or AA9 which I haven't used personally, etc).

I have narrowed my powder choices in 10mm down to Blue Dot and Longshot, as well as HP38/W231 for target level loads. Backup choices for me will always be AA7 and Power Pistol as do-all powders and I'll eventually at least TRY some AA9, WST and WSF. 800x gets the best velocities across the board but doesn't meter so I don't have too much use for it anymore.

Clear as mud?

Taterhead
08-11-2012, 15:43
The more I play around with powders, the more I like Blue Dot as a mainstay. Its cheap, plentiful, accurate and gets good numbers, even if it is a bit flashy and boomy (I'm not using handloads for CCW anyhow). There is also TONS of BD data around as its been around a long time. True, it doesn't meter like Accurate, Power Pistol or even Longshot but it does well enough considering that, even though it doesn't meter as well as some, it CONSISTENTLY produces the most accurate loads over a WIDE spectrum in 10mm from light to heavy, cast and jacketed.

I think BD is simply "just right" for 10mm in burn speed and particle density.... although you can get more MAX velocity out of various other powders under many cases

...



That is pretty much where I am. I keep trying to leave Blue Dot for other powders that meter better, have less, flash and boom, etc. I keep coming back to it because, like you said, it meters ok. But even with some high/low spreads on velocities with thrown charges, it still is the all-time groups champ out of my G20. It is also about the least expensive of the high-performing 10mm powders. I have used more BD than any powder by a long ways.

There is no reason why a guy couldn't live entirely on a diet of Blue Dot for 10mm auto and have the entire spectum covered (except mouse fart stuff).

nickE10mm
08-11-2012, 15:45
That is pretty much where I am. I keep trying to leave Blue Dot for other powders that meter better, have less, flash and boom, etc. I keep coming back to it because, like you said, it meters ok. But even with some high/low spreads on velocities with thrown charges, it still is the all-time groups champ out of my G20. It is also about the least expensive of the high-performing 10mm powders. I have used more BD than any powder by a long ways.

There is no reason why a guy couldn't live entirely on a diet of Blue Dot for 10mm auto and have the entire spectum covered (except mouse fart stuff).

Yep.... one thing that keeps me with BD is this: ACCURACY. I've tried to refute or ignore the results ... but I just can't do it. Target shooting isn't interesting if you aren't hitting the bulls!

CanyonMan
08-11-2012, 23:17
Yep.... one thing that keeps me with BD is this: ACCURACY. I've tried to refute or ignore the results ... but I just can't do it. Target shooting isn't interesting if you aren't hitting the bulls!




I just knew that one day you would wake up on morning with a BD revelation, and come on over and join Shadow and TH and I and yell "calf rope." haha !

Hey pard, was just crusin through on my way to the recliner to watch a Sam Elliot western and know I'll fall asleep as tired as i am, but could not resist the chance to mess with ya. :supergrin:


Bueno Noches' Mi Amigo !



Try Counting 1# BD canisters tonight while trying to get to sleep... it will help ! :rofl:



Adios!









CM

nickE10mm
08-12-2012, 07:13
I just knew that one day you would wake up on morning with a BD revelation, and come on over and join Shadow and TH and I and yell "calf rope." haha !

Hey pard, was just crusin through on my way to the recliner to watch a Sam Elliot western and know I'll fall asleep as tired as i am, but could not resist the chance to mess with ya. :supergrin:


Bueno Noches' Mi Amigo !



Try Counting 1# BD canisters tonight while trying to get to sleep... it will help ! :rofl:



Adios!









CM

:cool:

rvrrat14
08-12-2012, 08:59
+1 ;)









cm

+2.
Higher vel and lower press.........duh? ......the accuracy thing with BD is intriguing.

_The_Shadow
08-12-2012, 11:13
Balanced Performance would be the term I'd use...Accuracy, Velocity and Pressure in a ballistic package = Blue Dot.

blastfact
08-12-2012, 14:12
Blue Dot is flash bang magic. And can be found anywhere at a fair price. As of late I've had a lot of fun with Power Pistol under 135gn Nosler.

Blue Dot is to 10mm, What H-110 is to the .357 Mag.

:)

_The_Shadow
08-12-2012, 15:26
Before I got my 10mm, I used Blue Dot in the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum also for all of the same reasons!

rvrrat14
08-12-2012, 19:42
I shy away from blast/flame as I carry on the ranch in the evening and nite. Don't need excessive muzzle blast. Haven't shot a lot of #9 yet.

Yondering
08-12-2012, 22:52
I shy away from blast/flame as I carry on the ranch in the evening and nite. Don't need excessive muzzle blast. Haven't shot a lot of #9 yet.

In that case, I'd say AA7 and AA9 are your best choices. Those two powders will cover the full range of 10mm bullet weights, and give top velocities. Both are very low flash, even though they do use more powder per shot. They are also very good choices when running a muzzle brake.

Blue Dot is good, but I've gotten better accuracy in several loads with AA9, especially with cast bullets.

gofastman
08-13-2012, 23:13
Darn, just when I think Im set on ordering a 4 or 8 'pounder of Longshot, I find another powder I need to try. I better go find a pound of AA#9 :supergrin:

Ill definitely be ordering a 5 lb jug of Bluedot.
That stuff is just too fun, and I always find myself grabbing it for at least a few dozen loads to bring to the range.

TDC20
08-19-2012, 12:44
800X has been a good performer actually better than LongShot with heavier bullets and LongShot performs better than 800X with the lighter bullets from what I can tell.

This is what I have found for absolute highest velocities with the 10mm, vs. Blue Dot and A#9. 800-X is king for 180 and 200gr. bullets, if you're not averse to weighing every charge. Otherwise, I defer to Longshot as the best all-around velocity/metering performance powder. I haven't tested against VV powders due to cost, time, desire. But, as mentioned, you will have to go "off book" to get those velocities with 800-X and Longshot, so be careful.

However, both Blue Dot and A#9 are great performing 10mm powders.

I use A#9 for SD loads since it is low flash at excellent 10mm velocities. A#9 will easily exceed the velocity performance envelope for expansion of 180gr. Gold Dots. So it's perfect to load for that application.

I use Blue Dot almost exclusively for my moderate range practice loads. You can't beat it for accuracy and economy.

One more thing to be aware of since no one else has mentioned it, most will recommend using only standard primers with these loads. My limited testing with magnum primers has always shown less pressure signs using standard primers and a few 10th's of a grain more powder than the same velocity achieved with a magnum primer. In some loads, magnum primers can really spike the pressures.

Good luck and be safe!

gofastman
09-03-2012, 19:36
crap!
after getting some AA9, I found the small grains of it seep into places it shouldn't in my LEE not-so-perfect-powder-measure, making it bind up.
anybody else have this problem?

Taterhead
09-03-2012, 20:45
crap!
after getting some AA9, I found the small grains of it seep into places it shouldn't in my LEE not-so-perfect-powder-measure, making it bind up.
anybody else have this problem?

Bummer!

That is too bad because one of the reasons to get A9 is that it meters so well. I typically use an RCBS Uniflow. It is awesome through that. Less than +/- 1/10 grain variation in throws.

I hope you get it worked out. I am not familiar with the Lee setup so I unfortunately can't give any advice.

Any Cal.
09-04-2012, 00:12
Yeah, sometimes it does that. Loosen the screw up a tiny bit and it will help. Also, Google "lapping Lee Perfect Powder measure". I haven't done it, but it sounds like a good fix. I just loosen the screw a bit and let it leak a bit. As it wears in you can tighten it up some. It will still throw an accurate charge.

gator378
10-03-2012, 16:24
Before I got my 10mm, I used Blue Dot in the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum also for all of the same reasons!

Also workss great in a 12 guage when loading heavy rounds. Went through a few pounds of BD feeding the 12 guage, a good backup to the 10mm

_The_Shadow
10-03-2012, 16:58
Also workss great in a 12 guage when loading heavy rounds. Went through a few pounds of BD feeding the 12 guage, a good backup to the 10mm
:cool:
I loaded it in 12 guage also using Remington, Peters & Federal 2 3/4" hulls with 35.5grains with the Remington RP/SP12 wads and 1 1/4oz of #6 lead for my duck hunting days. The ban on the use of lead put a halt to that, and steel shot didn't do as and effective job. I remember that I used 37.5 grains in the Winchester hulls and 40.0 grains in Fiocchi high brass with the 1 1/4 oz loads...those reached way out there. :wow:

Yondering
10-04-2012, 22:29
Yeah, BD is awesome for 12 gauge, especially slugs. It makes a pretty impressive boom out of that 18" slugster barrel, and works pretty well with those Lyman pellet shaped slugs. 42-45gr, depending on hull and wad, IIRC.

gator378
10-28-2012, 11:06
As far as pressure, I only have the manufacturers published data to go on, so that really doesn't factor into my choices. My hurdles for powder selection is accuracy, velocity potential, metering and finally cost.

I load 180gr jacketed. I have tried Longshot, Blue Dot, 2400, VV-N105 and #9 with these bullets.

I had gotten down to three powders for 10mm a while back (BD, #9 and N105). I now only buy Blue Dot and #9 in the large bottles. Likely, eventually I will be down to large bottles of #9. I always seem to come back to #9 in magnum velocities, it is such a dreamy powder.

+1 for AA#9. Good velocity, accuracy, no pressure signs

gator378
11-18-2012, 14:19
I have a handful of KKM barrels and I think they make a really good product.

If your experience tracks mine, you will see a marked improvement in velocity potential with that longer barrel, especially with the slower powders.

On the smiley and case support thing, I am not certain this amounts to much. My experience seems to indicate that smiles are not as much a factor of where the ramp enters the chamber (at least in the later 10mm barrels) or the ultimate size of the chamber and more related to how the timing of the gun is affected in the upper reaches of pressure. That 6" barrel has to help with the unlock timing, so it likely will help keep smiles at bay while loading in the twilight zone.

What I am unsure about is the difference between a stock 6" hunting barrel and an aftermarket unit with tighter chamber and a steeper ramp and when smiles start showing up. I suspect there is some marginal difference, but in the realm of precision I load, have my doubts it is a first order concern.

In any case, for me, I have done my nuke loading and am now back to loads that top out somewhere in the 1250fps range with the stock barrel (with 180gr slugs); in that category, with the components I am using, smiles are not on the agenda if the gun is working right, so I find my KKM barrels ended up being nice paperweights.

Got rid of my smileys on hot loads by getting rid of the Glock barrel. Happy aftermarket barrel camper.

LASTRESORT20
11-18-2012, 14:26
P.S. Speed is not the only determining factor...Accuracy and cleanliness also play into the mix, and again Blue Dot has delivered in this arena as well.


Yes....Blue Dot has worked well for me also.