Robber, concealed-carry permit holder exchange gunfire [Archive] - Glock Talk

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HerrGlock
08-12-2012, 02:43
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/robber-concealed-carry-permit-holder-exchange-shots/article_fe70aa12-e3c6-11e1-b1fb-0019bb30f31a.html

JW1178
08-12-2012, 03:54
Nice, the thug thought he was going to gun them down after robbing them, and almost got shot himself. Imagine if he had not been carrying.

Drain You
08-12-2012, 06:35
then fled in an early 1980s maroon Ford pickup


Oh that explains it. He is saving up for a new paint job, maybe even a different vehicle if he gets lucky.

jdavionic
08-12-2012, 07:01
Good post. We could fill GT Carry Issues with positive stories like this one. It's a refreshing read from the repeated barrage by certain individuals.

smokin762
08-12-2012, 07:03
It was a happy ending that the robbery victims were not hurt. However, just remember, every bullet that leaves a firearm has an attorney attached to it.

jdavionic
08-12-2012, 07:19
However, just remember, every bullet that leaves a firearm has an attorney attached to it.

In a life and death situation, it's better to remember to survive first. Someone turned and pointed a gun at them BEFORE they responded.

smokin762
08-12-2012, 07:30
In a life and death situation, it's better to remember to survive first. Someone turned and pointed a gun at them BEFORE they responded.

I completely understand. I would have done no different. The part that stood out to me was, shots were fired but nobody was hit. Those bullets had to go somewhere.

I firmly believe the victimís firearm saved him and his friendís lives. I just tend to wonder about the strays. If the dots are not being connected, then they are going somewhere else. Maybe some advanced training would help. Just a personal goal though. :dunno:

jdavionic
08-12-2012, 07:45
I completely understand. I would have done no different. The part that stood out to me was, shots were fired but nobody was hit. Those bullets had to go somewhere.

I firmly believe the victimís firearm saved him and his friendís lives. I just tend to wonder about the strays. If the dots are not being connected, then they are going somewhere else. Maybe some advanced training would help. Just a personal goal though. :dunno:

Thanks for the clarification. I also had that part stand out; but without more information, you can only speculate. I often post about getting training & practice. Perhaps the CC elderly man did have training...maybe not. In that situation, I understand & agree with highlighting one of the key commandments in firearms - be sure of your target and what is beyond it. However in that situation, be aware of a lawyer with each bullet...no, that one doesn't get any consideration in such a situation from my perspective.

smokin762
08-12-2012, 08:03
Thanks for the clarification. I also had that part stand out; but without more information, you can only speculate. I often post about getting training & practice. Perhaps the CC elderly man did have training...maybe not. In that situation, I understand & agree with highlighting one of the key commandments in firearms - be sure of your target and what is beyond it. However in that situation, be aware of a lawyer with each bullet...no, that one doesn't get any consideration in such a situation from my perspective.

The lawyer with every bullet part is usually just an after thought. :whistling:

cowboy1964
08-12-2012, 14:02
Revolver.... five shots fired... did he run dry? Wonder if he'll be considering an upgrade after this?

Berto
08-12-2012, 14:32
Would it have been better if he had fired 15 shots?

steveksux
08-12-2012, 14:34
The robber ran first, then turned and fired, so there was likely a fair amount of distance between them. Seeing as how people tend to miss more than hit in most encounters within a few feet of each other, its not surprising that when under fire, neither man was able to hit their intended target.

The CCer was concealing a revolver, so not likely to be a long barrel, more likely to be a snubbie, making medium distance hits quickly would be pretty difficult without being shot at let alone while being shot at.

Randy

jdavionic
08-12-2012, 14:39
The robber ran first, then turned and fired, so there was likely a fair amount of distance between them.

That's not exactly accurate. The robber ran, turned, pointed the gun at them, the elderly man drew his gun and fired, and the robber returned fire. With that said, yes...there was likely a good distance before the shots started.

Chris Brines
08-13-2012, 20:39
I completely understand. I would have done no different. The part that stood out to me was, shots were fired but nobody was hit. Those bullets had to go somewhere.

I firmly believe the victimís firearm saved him and his friendís lives. I just tend to wonder about the strays. If the dots are not being connected, then they are going somewhere else. Maybe some advanced training would help. Just a personal goal though. :dunno:

That's one of my main concerns..hitting my target and ONLY my target. I know for sure if they're within 3 feet of me they're toast. These "contact drills" we worked on in my training classes sure helped. But I don't shoot as often as I used to, I used to shoot like 4 times a month, but had to cut back considerably because ammo ain't cheap....

But back when I was shooting that much, my aim was pretty damn good. Now I'd say it's just "good enough". I mean I can't put the round literally on the exact spot on paper that I want it nearly as easily, but there's still no doubt in my mind I could hit whoever I was shooting at, and only them. But yeah, that's definitely something everyone needs to keep in mind.

There was a shootout b/t a robber and customer at a store here in Houston a few months back. Clerk was killed in the crossfire. They never said who's gun the fatal bullet came from, but I'd say even if it were from the customer, the robber is to blame. Still, if it were from the customer, some training may have been able to prevent a death. Never did hear the end of that story, luckily for us, most of the media in my area is not controlled by liberals.

jmchaney
08-14-2012, 06:42
There was a shootout b/t a robber and customer at a store here in Houston a few months back. Clerk was killed in the crossfire. They never said who's gun the fatal bullet came from, but I'd say even if it were from the customer, the robber is to blame. Still, if it were from the customer, some training may have been able to prevent a death. Never did hear the end of that story, luckily for us, most of the media in my area is not controlled by liberals.

The clerk was indeed killed by the armed customer. http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18661869/chl

HerrGlock
08-14-2012, 06:53
The robber needs to have felony murder added to the charges.
Anyone suing on behalf of the clerk should aim that suit at the robber's assets.

Bren
08-14-2012, 07:19
In a life and death situation, it's better to remember to survive first. Someone turned and pointed a gun at them BEFORE they responded.

True. One point I make when teaching law enforcement officers about use of force law, is that they don't just need to understand it to avoid using too much force - they also need to understand it so they don't use too little force or hesitate to do it. Unfortunately, most of those who post about getting sued in every thread about successful self-defense are probably the ones who will hesitate and get themselves or others hurt/killed.

Misty02
08-14-2012, 12:32
That's one of my main concerns..hitting my target and ONLY my target. I know for sure if they're within 3 feet of me they're toast. These "contact drills" we worked on in my training classes sure helped. But I don't shoot as often as I used to, I used to shoot like 4 times a month, but had to cut back considerably because ammo ain't cheap....

But back when I was shooting that much, my aim was pretty damn good. Now I'd say it's just "good enough". I mean I can't put the round literally on the exact spot on paper that I want it nearly as easily, but there's still no doubt in my mind I could hit whoever I was shooting at, and only them. But yeah, that's definitely something everyone needs to keep in mind.

There was a shootout b/t a robber and customer at a store here in Houston a few months back. Clerk was killed in the crossfire. They never said who's gun the fatal bullet came from, but I'd say even if it were from the customer, the robber is to blame. Still, if it were from the customer, some training may have been able to prevent a death. Never did hear the end of that story, luckily for us, most of the media in my area is not controlled by liberals.

The predictability of hitting the intended target when that intended target is firing/fighting back and moving may not be as strong as our ability to assess that there are no innocent bystanders in our line of fire. It seems in this case they were able to assess that much.

After taking a few classes that included disarming an armed attacker, I would be more concerned with firing at someone that is 3 feet away (armís length) than I would at someone that is 15+ feet or so away. At 3 feet away your attacker is likely to attempt a disarm or at the very least control the shooting hand to ensure the firearm is deflected from their position.

Long distances have their own challenges as well, among them unpredictability of the attackerís movement and if there are other innocents present, unpredictability of their movement (on their own or forced by the attackers).

Itís not as easy as many people believe it is, you can be able to put 300 rounds with 2 inch groupings at 21 yards every day for a year and still seriously mess up when you have everyone moving (including innocent people) in a confined space.

.

WarEagle32
08-14-2012, 12:59
Sounds like he emptied that revolver to me :cool:

mingaa
08-14-2012, 13:38
The St Louis group were right on the edge of a very nice walkable, prosperous neighborhood with blocks of nice shop and restaurants. Sounds like the we're heading home as a group (good planning!?) from a pm function - they were 2 blocks from the beginning of sketchyville - a great spot for BGs to slide over for some easy prey or so this one thought. It sounds like he was going to drop someone (speculation) to add post robbery fear to the situation and that return fire may have changed his mind. Point to the armed gent to have the mind set to defend himself and those in his group. As BG approached from the rear this may have been his first opportunity to act. Sounds like they were in grave threat from the beginning with a verbal threat on their lives. Hard to say without being there or seeing an LEO record.

The article is on the thin side info wise but it sounds like the group knew the neighborhood and that someone was legally prepared. hopefully this sends out word that picking off older citizens strolling home from bingo on Olive is not such a good idea.

I'm in a small strip mall Chinese restaurant writing this. There's a seat I like that has the door - the whole front is glass so I can get a look at pepople who approach. Anyone at the counter has their back to me. Too bad that in a nice city in the Midwest a lot of people are watching their tail - because they have to.