Plate Carriers!!?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Plate Carriers!!??


cotton617
08-13-2012, 17:25
Alright, hopefully this is the right section for this...Anways, I'm interested in purchasing a plate carrier and there are many options that I have come across. To help you help me I will tell you what I am looking for.

I would like a PC that is lightweight and comfortable, without sacrificing structural quality. I will be carrying M4 mags and maybe a couple other GP pouches. I will not need room for pistol mags as I prefer to keep those on my waist. Also Multicam and back protection are a must. I do not need tons of pouches, again I am trying to preserve comfort and mobility and limit bulk. The intended purpose for this PC at the moment is general preparedness (defense against general small arms fire) but I am currently in the Army ROTC program and will be contracting as a 2LT within the next year so this PC might have the possibility of seeing combat. If it helps at all I am 5'10 165lbs.

The PC's I have been looking at:

http://www.lapolicegear.com/tact-fl-platecarrier.html
Tactical Tailor Fight Light PC

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/USP00400066.aspx
US Palm ASP-C

http://www.skdtac.com/PIG-Plate-Carrier-p/pig.502.htm
PIG Plate Carrier

http://www.skdtac.com/Mayflower-Assa...-p/mfr.512.htm
Mayflower Assault PC

http://www.cryeprecision.com/P-CPCD0...%E2%84%A2-(cpc)
Crye Cage PC

http://www.cryeprecision.com/P-BLC04...%E2%84%A2-(jpc)
Crye Jumpable PC


What are the main differences of these PC's? Which will suit me best? I am also a bit confused on which of these do and do not come with armor already? For the ones that do not, where can I buy the armor? Also what is the main difference between level III and level IV and what would be better for me?

I would like to stay under $700 all said and done (PC, Armor, Pouches) But if there are recommendations for something significantly better for more money I would obviously consider.

Thank you in advance for the help.
__________________

expatman
08-13-2012, 19:55
Those are all good carriers but I would stay away from the Palm since I don't think it will be the best choice for mil. operations. You may also want to look at Paraclete. There are websites such as greygrouptraining.com and atsgear.com and skdtac.com that have a good selection.

I would not worry about purchasing armor since that will be provided by Uncle Sugar unless you just want some for your personnal use. If that is the case you will most likely need to adjust your budget. Perhaps double it or more.

If you do not need armor and PC for personnal use then the Mil. will most likely be providing you with a KDH PC.

emt1581
08-13-2012, 20:21
I went with a Banshee Carrier and Gamma plates...you can make that setup for well under $500...possibly under $350-$400 IIRC. I also got free side plates because the guy screwed up my order somehow.

But that setup gives you .308/7.62 Nato (or is it 30-06)...but yeah....pretty decent protection for not a lot of money.

A better place to talk shop for this would be lightfighter.com if you are millitary. If not, ARF.com has a nice gear forum.

Good luck!

-Emt1581

NMPOPS
08-13-2012, 21:11
Contracting? You are in a college ROTC program don't you owe the Military a minimum of 5 years active duty?

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk 2

expatman
08-13-2012, 21:19
I think he means the contract between him and Uncle Sam.

NMPOPS
08-13-2012, 23:49
I know. I just never heard it phrased quite that way before.

cotton617
08-14-2012, 12:34
I will be signing an 8 year contract next December in order to commision as a 2LT.

cotton617
08-14-2012, 13:37
Also expatman, the Crye JPC is $250 (w/o armor) but there platebag inserts are $150 each...if I am looking at the correct products. That would put me around $600 all said and done.

http://www.cryeprecision.com/P-INSPS000LG0/Platebag-Soft-Armor-Insert (http://www.cryeprecision.com/P-INSPS000LG0/Platebag-Soft-Armor-Insert)

Now I'm getting abit confused with the armor side of things...do I need to buy a hard armor plate for any of those vests and then buy soft armor to back it? Or just one or the other?

expatman
08-14-2012, 14:14
One usually uses hard plates in conjunction with (ICW) soft armor. If you are not using full BALCS or SPEAR cut soft armor then you usually need plate backers which are just soft armor panels designed/cut to the shape of the particular shape/cut of plate you are using.

There are also stand alone plates. Many people use plate backers with them as well.

What you need to do since I am not confident enough in my knowledge base to go more in depth with you is to call someone like Greygrouptraining.com (they can be very helpful. I have worked with the owner; great guy.) or hop on over to www.lightfighter.net and get some more knowledgeable people to assist you. This is not something you want to get wrong.

Myself, I use Army type ESAPI plates in a Diamindback Tacticl Advanced Warrior Fast Attack Plate Carrier. It comes with sewn in soft armor behind the plate pocket that acts as a plate backer.

I am still confused as to why you want to buy this stuff yourself if Uncle Sugar will be issueing it all to you anyway. Just does not compute in my dial up modem world. At the very least wait until you get the stuff issued and then you will have a chance to educate yourself first hand. Either way it is up to you. I am just trying to help.

Lone Kimono
09-18-2012, 21:32
Has anyone tried the TAG plate carrier?

Commander_Zero
09-20-2012, 09:11
The PC from Shellback seems to be getting good reviews and is quite affordable:
http://shellbacktactical.com/bansheerifleplatecarrier.aspx

Coupled with $155 VTG level IV plates, you'd have a pretty affordable setup. (The video of them shooting the plates, twice, with M2 AP is pretty illuminating.)

https://www.spectergear.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=704

Morris
09-20-2012, 14:08
I run a TAG Banshee with Level 4 for work.

But the harsh reality of life is that you would waste money for a setup. You are better with soft body armor and a quality carrier for long term work. Stay light and mobile, not weighed down.

Bushflyr
09-20-2012, 20:34
But the harsh reality of life is that you would waste money for a setup. You are better with soft body armor and a quality carrier for long term work. Stay light and mobile, not weighed down.

I would argue the opposite. Most civilians have no need for armor, hard or soft, in their day to day lives. But when they do need it they need the most protection possible for a short period. Comfort isn't as much of an issue as they won't be working in it long term.

Bump in the night? Throw on the plates grab the AR and investigate. Riot outside? I want plates. Hurricane? I'm not going to go out into a violent situation to clear trees, they can wait till the zombies pass, or whatever.

Cops need to get stuff done in an elevated threat environment on a daily basis. That's why it makes sense for them to trade the protection of plates for the comfort of Kevlar.

I think a good set of steel Level 3 plates makes the most sense for a civilian. It provides the most protection, has no lifespan, won't rot, isn't fragile like ceramic, provides multi-hit protection (unlike most ceramic), and is way cheaper.

TactiCool
09-20-2012, 20:48
I would argue the opposite. Most civilians have no need for armor, hard or soft, in their day to day lives. But when they do need it they need the most protection possible for a short period. Comfort isn't as much of an issue as they won't be working in it long term.

Bump in the night? Throw on the plates grab the AR and investigate. Riot outside? I want plates. Hurricane? I'm not going to go out into a violent situation to clear trees, they can wait till the zombies pass, or whatever.

Cops need to get stuff done in an elevated threat environment on a daily basis. That's why it makes sense for them to trade the protection of plates for the comfort of Kevlar.

I think a good set of steel Level 3 plates makes the most sense for a civilian. It provides the most protection, has no lifespan, won't rot, isn't fragile like ceramic, provides multi-hit protection (unlike most ceramic), and is way cheaper.

I agree on all points above, and I run the same setup, with lv. 3 steelies front and back, no backers or inserts.

AK_Stick
09-20-2012, 21:03
Anymore, with the advances in plates, I think most people would be much better off with a pair of ceramic/hybrid or poly plates, not steel.


Steel is heavy, and the only real up side, is that its tough. The downside being, its heavy, and depending upon the plate, it doesn't always offer protection against some very common threats.

Where as the ceramics/poly/hybrids are no where near as fragile as people seem to think, and are lighter to much lighter, generally offer better protection, and can be found in a wider selection of cuts, to find one that fits you.

Bushflyr
09-20-2012, 21:24
Got links to good hybrids? I wound up with DBT Lv. III steels, but this was several years back. They were only a pound or so heavier than ceramic at the time and about a third of the cost.

TactiCool
09-20-2012, 21:24
Anymore, with the advances in plates, I think most people would be much better off with a pair of ceramic/hybrid or poly plates, not steel.


Steel is heavy, and the only real up side, is that its tough. The downside being, its heavy, and depending upon the plate, it doesn't always offer protection against some very common threats.

Where as the ceramics/poly/hybrids are no where near as fragile as people seem to think, and are lighter to much lighter, generally offer better protection, and can be found in a wider selection of cuts, to find one that fits you.

Which threats are those? My plates are NIJ III, but have been independantly tested to stop 6+ hits of M855 at 3,300+ fps in the same spot. I can't imagine too many other types of plate that could do that.

AK_Stick
09-20-2012, 21:40
Got links to good hybrids? I wound up with DBT Lv. III steels, but this was several years back. They were only a pound or so heavier than ceramic at the time and about a third of the cost.


You need to do some research on the DBT lv III's, as they were found to not be NIJ compliant, and not actually LV III in some cases.

Yours may be one of the effected ones, or may not be, I don't remember enough about what were and weren't but I'd advise looking.

As for hybrids, currently, I think the best on the market is the AMI TAC3S

http://www.armoredmobility.com/products_bodyarmor.php


I know of several tests of that plate, at least two involving as many as 40 rounds, and I don't know of a single plate that has been tested to failure, against any of its rated threats.

AK_Stick
09-20-2012, 21:45
Which threats are those? My plates are NIJ III, but have been independantly tested to stop 6+ hits of M855 at 3,300+ fps in the same spot. I can't imagine too many other types of plate that could do that.


What brand do you have? Simply being Level III, doesn't mean much. And if its a 6.5mm plate of AR500 steel, as many are, you may not be protected against all 5.56 threats.


Some of the steel plates on the market, are not always capable of stopping 55 gr M193, or the LeMas rounds, as when penetrating steel, velocity, is often the key, not weight.

http://www.armoredmobility.com/products_tacst.php

Similarly, some of the poly plates on the market, will stop very fast rounds, like M-193, but M855, will sail right through.

Lone Kimono
09-20-2012, 21:51
I would argue the opposite. Most civilians have no need for armor, hard or soft, in their day to day lives. But when they do need it they need the most protection possible for a short period. Comfort isn't as much of an issue as they won't be working in it long term.

Bump in the night? Throw on the plates grab the AR and investigate. Riot outside? I want plates. Hurricane? I'm not going to go out into a violent situation to clear trees, they can wait till the zombies pass, or whatever.

I think a good set of steel Level 3 plates makes the most sense for a civilian. It provides the most protection, has no lifespan, won't rot, isn't fragile like ceramic, provides multi-hit protection (unlike most ceramic), and is way cheaper.

This is exactly why I'm looking for one.

TactiCool
09-20-2012, 22:06
What brand do you have? Simply being Level III, doesn't mean much. And if its a 6.5mm plate of AR500 steel, as many are, you may not be protected against all 5.56 threats.


Some of the steel plates on the market, are not always capable of stopping 55 gr M193, or the LeMas rounds, as when penetrating steel, velocity, is often the key, not weight.

http://www.armoredmobility.com/products_tacst.php

Similarly, some of the poly plates on the market, will stop very fast rounds, like M-193, but M855, will sail right through.

Besides meeting NIJ level III standards, my plates were tested independently, with multi-hit capability, for the following rounds: 148 gr. 7.62x54r steel core @ 2,900+ fps, m855 3,300+ fps, 7.62 M80 ball @ 2,900 fps, M193 ball and lesser threats with zero penetration.

I don't know the exact origin of plates, but they are warrantied and have a barcode label on them. A contractor friend recommended them to me, and I bought them. They are flat 10x12's and weigh approximately 8 lbs. each.

Morris
09-20-2012, 22:15
I can see your point Bush. The challenge is what you will put on for that supposed bump in the night and carry. Lately, it seems those bumps in the night most folks get also involve forced entries that are quick and nasty against homeowners. Level III may be that intermediate ground when the 4s are heavy. I go back to staying with SBA that is generally effective (such as level IIIa in a carrier). Of course, my approach is more urban/surburban oriented.

I don't want to see folks buy all the cool stuff only to realize how cumbersome they are for what should be quick movement on their part. If they do get them, train HONESTLY with them and ensure the limitations are understood.

AK_Stick
09-20-2012, 22:16
If you do find it, I'd be interested in knowing who made them, but yes, there are good steel plates on the market, they're just heavy.


That said, I would advise you wear plate backers, at the very least, under your plates. BFD, can be fatal, and even if there is none, plate backers will help absorb some of the impact trauma.

Personally, I run level IV multi hit ceramics, either with plate backers, similarly, my side plates are also IV multi hits.

TactiCool
09-20-2012, 22:33
If you do find it, I'd be interested in knowing who made them, but yes, there are good steel plates on the market, they're just heavy.


That said, I would advise you wear plate backers, at the very least, under your plates. BFD, can be fatal, and even if there is none, plate backers will help absorb some of the impact trauma.

Personally, I run level IV multi hit ceramics, either with plate backers, similarly, my side plates are also IV multi hits.

I train at my range with them every week, so they are slowly becoming lighter. Pics:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1607&pictureid=6026


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1607&pictureid=6025

I would ask, but my friend will not be back from the 'box until November.

BTW, For all prospective plate buyers: If the plate does not have a seal, it isn't the real deal, and you could be making a life-threatening mistake.

Lone Kimono
09-20-2012, 22:40
I have a lot to learn about these things. I didn't even know plates could expire.

TactiCool
09-20-2012, 22:46
I have a lot to learn about these things. I didn't even know plates could expire.

Simple. Get the best and never look back. Your life is worth more than your budget.

Bushflyr
09-20-2012, 23:00
You need to do some research on the DBT lv III's, as they were found to not be NIJ compliant, and not actually LV III in some cases.

Yours may be one of the effected ones, or may not be, I don't remember enough about what were and weren't but I'd advise looking.

Yeah, I remember that whole fiasco. I got mine after that. But, and I'm a little fuzzy on the details, it had something to do with the NIJ changing to a 20" barrel for their test or something. The whole fallout was basically "don't get shot with M855 out of a 20" barrel at less than 10 feet." Anything else you're fine. :yawn: Not going to scrap them over that. :supergrin:

I have a lot to learn about these things. I didn't even know plates could expire.

If it's my "expire" comment you're referring to above I was talking about soft armor, not plates. I know steel doesn't go bad, not too sure about the others.

Lone Kimono
09-20-2012, 23:03
Simple. Get the best and never look back. Your life is worth more than your budget.

I agree. When I find out what that is I will.

TactiCool
09-20-2012, 23:15
I agree. When I find out what that is I will.

Everyone will have varying requirements for carriers as well as plates, but a good all around rig would be a Blue Force Gear LMAC w/ AMI TAC3S plates. Add some HSGI taco pouches, tourniquets, hydration, and a good blow out kit and you will be all set.

In fact, whatever rig you decide to get, the blowout kit is mandatory. Make sure to learn basic med skills too so you can use it effectively.

Personally, I run two tourniquets on my rig, plus one in the blowout pouch w/ a set of shears. I know, it may sound paranoid, but I want to be able to reach a tourniquet no matter what position I am in.

Lone Kimono
09-21-2012, 09:32
Everyone will have varying requirements for carriers as well as plates, but a good all around rig would be a Blue Force Gear LMAC w/ AMI TAC3S plates. Add some HSGI taco pouches, tourniquets, hydration, and a good blow out kit and you will be all set.

In fact, whatever rig you decide to get, the blowout kit is mandatory. Make sure to learn basic med skills too so you can use it effectively.

Personally, I run two tourniquets on my rig, plus one in the blowout pouch w/ a set of shears. I know, it may sound paranoid, but I want to be able to reach a tourniquet no matter what position I am in.

Good advice on the blowout kit!

As far as the carrier, what makes the Blue Force or Pig carriers worth double the price of a TAG Banshee? With the plates I totally understand, but if a carrier holds a plate in the proper place, why would they be worth double?

Bilbo Bagins
09-21-2012, 09:53
Anymore, with the advances in plates, I think most people would be much better off with a pair of ceramic/hybrid or poly plates, not steel.


Steel is heavy, and the only real up side, is that its tough. The downside being, its heavy, and depending upon the plate, it doesn't always offer protection against some very common threats.

Where as the ceramics/poly/hybrids are no where near as fragile as people seem to think, and are lighter to much lighter, generally offer better protection, and can be found in a wider selection of cuts, to find one that fits you.

The other problem with steel is "bullet splatter". You may be lucky that a bullet is stopped by a steel plate in your nylon plate carrier, but you may be unlucky when either the bullet is deflected , or a bullet fragment bounces off of that steel plate and goes into your leg, arm or head. Steel may be cheap but other plates absorb and stop rounds better.

The only other thing I heard mention was that Poly plates where bad with excessive heat and direct sunlight. Its probably fine to wear in a desert, but its probably not smart to leave it in the trunk of a squad car if your a cop in Arizona, or your parked SUV if you are a contractor in Iraq.

expatman
09-21-2012, 10:07
The other problem with steel is "bullet splatter". You may be lucky that a bullet is stopped by a steel plate in your nylon plate carrier, but you may be unlucky when either the bullet is deflected , or a bullet fragment bounces off of that steel plate and goes into your leg, arm or head. Steel may be cheap but other plates absorb and stop rounds better.

The only other thing I heard mention was that Poly plates where bad with excessive heat and direct sunlight. Its probably fine to wear in a desert, but its probably not smart to leave it in the trunk of a squad car if your a cop in Arizona, or your parked SUV if you are a contractor in Iraq.

You are exactly correct regarding "bullet splatter" or "spall". I have had this discussion with others in the past and many seem to just want to "poo poo" the subject. As a contractor in Iraq I witnessed a guard wearing steel plates get struck on his front plate and take bullet splatter through the bottom of his chin and into his mouth. It was no fun for him trust me.

If you run steel plates then you need to wear them with spall guards to keep the splatter to a minimum.

Morris
09-26-2012, 12:44
As far as the carrier, what makes the Blue Force or Pig carriers worth double the price of a TAG Banshee? With the plates I totally understand, but if a carrier holds a plate in the proper place, why would they be worth double?

Sometimes it's the name. Sometimes, it's the material used or the quality of stitching and small points.

Lone Kimono
09-26-2012, 21:28
Does anyone know if you need clipped plates for the Banshee?

AK_Stick
09-27-2012, 01:01
I know it accepts SAPI plates, and from the looks of it, I would guess it probably won't fit as large of a square plate, as a shooter cut one.

ancient_serpent
09-28-2012, 11:19
The Banshee is designed for "shooter cut" rifle plates.

captdreifus
09-28-2012, 12:04
Does anyone know if the VTG plates will work with the PIG carrier?

AK_Stick
09-28-2012, 12:37
So long as its a SAPI/Shooter cut, yes.

captdreifus
09-28-2012, 14:32
Thanks

98LS-WON
09-28-2012, 22:17
I'd save your money for pouches etc. You'll be issued a better plate carrier than you can buy for that amount of money, but you'll have a bunch of junk hanging off of it. Take your money and order some pmags and an assortment of pouches and packs from Tactical Tailor. Also, multicam isn't going to last very long, we're already testing new camo. So if you ant it for personal use, go ahead, but you probably won't be able to wear for very long on the job.

dissthis
10-11-2012, 07:08
Question about fit

I have an opportunity to buy a plate carrier (good brand/good price)...when I tried it on it seemed short...carrier came to about my bellybutton and the plates were about an inch above that...plates (front and back) measured about 12"x12" so they covered the vitals...I felt the lower abdomen and lower back were exposed...but any pics of guys in Afg/Iraq seem to fit the same...they all had pouches and mags over the uncovered areas...

thought? Thanks

humanguerrilla
10-11-2012, 10:08
Most of the low profile carriers are designed for 10x12, and you'll want shooters cut front. Ceramic plates unless you are going to heavy spray steel with bedliner like guys are doing and trust it.

Bushflyr
10-11-2012, 10:33
Question about fit

I have an opportunity to buy a plate carrier (good brand/good price)...when I tried it on it seemed short...carrier came to about my bellybutton and the plates were about an inch above that...plates (front and back) measured about 12"x12" so they covered the vitals...I felt the lower abdomen and lower back were exposed...but any pics of guys in Afg/Iraq seem to fit the same...they all had pouches and mags over the uncovered areas...

thought? Thanks

That's the way it's supposed to fit. You can't move if it sits too low.

expatman
10-11-2012, 15:47
That's the way it's supposed to fit. You can't move if it sits too low.

^^^^^
This

98LS-WON
10-12-2012, 23:27
You want to wear it as high as you can. Getting shot in the gut won't kill you right away, getting shot in the center of the upper part of your chest will.

oldsoldier
10-13-2012, 17:34
Wait for the Army to issue you the stuff. You're going to have to attend an Officer Basic Course after ROTC aren't you? They might have better body armor by the time you hit a MTOE unit. Save your money for pogey bait.