BOHICA Middle Class [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : BOHICA Middle Class


Kingarthurhk
08-14-2012, 16:38
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/14/fact-check-ryan-budget-plan-doesnt-actually-slash-budget/

The Ryan Plan, sticks it to the Middle Class, and actually increases the budget.

Flying-Dutchman
08-14-2012, 17:02
Obama’s budget was voted down 97-0 by the Senate (Democrat controlled no less).

So for the last 3 years there has been no budget at all just $5 trillion added to the debt.

Anyway Romney is the one running for President and he will propose his own budget as he sees fit.

Kingarthurhk
08-14-2012, 17:07
Obama’s budget was voted down 97-0 by the Senate (Democrat controlled no less).

So for the last 3 years there has been no budget at all just $5 trillion added to the debt.

Anyway Romney is the one running for President and he will propose his own budget as he sees fit.

He already said he wants to implement Ryan's plan.

Fed Five Oh
08-14-2012, 17:07
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/14/fact-check-ryan-budget-plan-doesnt-actually-slash-budget/

The Ryan Plan, sticks it to the Middle Class, and actually increases the budget.Is your opinion based on your extensive research?

Kingarthurhk
08-14-2012, 17:08
Is your opinion based on your extensive research?

The link is just the facts, from FOX believe it or not, Hawaii.

Fed Five Oh
08-14-2012, 17:18
The top 20 percent of households pay 94 percent of income taxes.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-20-percent-households-pay-94-percent-income-taxes

The top 10 percent of earners pay 71 percent of income taxes.

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

So who is getting the shaft?

Your research sucks, but your flair for the dishonest is deserving of olympic gold.

countrygun
08-14-2012, 17:23
The top 20 percent of households pay 94 percent of income taxes.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-20-percent-households-pay-94-percent-income-taxes

The top 10 percent of earners pay 71 percent of income taxes.

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

So who is getting the shaft?

Your research sucks, but your flair for the dishonest is deserving of olympic gold.


You got to hand it to him though, no matter how many times his research is wrong and how many times he is called out on it, he comes right back in the "Fail" lane everytime.

series1811
08-14-2012, 17:48
You got to hand it to him though, no matter how many times his research is wrong and how many times he is called out on it, he comes right back in the "Fail" lane everytime.

Just trying to get the media to talk about that "internet buzz" for Obama.

A stunning report from Chris Matthews at MSNBC: "We have learned that there are even people on conservative gun boards who get a tingly feeling down their leg when they hear Obama speak."

Flying-Dutchman
08-14-2012, 18:01
He already said he wants to implement Ryan's plan.
Romney may incorporate parts of Ryan’s plan but any budget will have to go through Congress to be negotiated and probably include Democrats so there will be a lot of changes.

By acting as President instead of as King, Romney will get the budget back on track.

As far as sticking it to the middle class, the $17 trillion debt already did that. Growing the economy will balance a budget without pain but even that might not work at these debt levels.

Gunnut 45/454
08-14-2012, 18:06
Kingarthurhk
Just wait until you file next years taxes - then you'll see who really has put the corn cob where the sun don't shine! Obamacare kicks in the largest tax increase in American history! And since Congress- Harry Reid will do nothing about taxes you get hit with the second biggest tax in history! So yea the Socialist Government of Obamamoa will definately make you all warm an fuzzy soon- grab your ankles!:steamed:

Kingarthurhk
08-15-2012, 05:47
Just trying to get the media to talk about that "internet buzz" for Obama.

A stunning report from Chris Matthews at MSNBC: "We have learned that there are even people on conservative gun boards who get a tingly feeling down their leg when they hear Obama speak."

I have no love for Obama. However, endorsing Ryan is like cattle endorsing the beef industry. Given, where you come from, you should know.

series1811
08-15-2012, 05:52
I have no love for Obama. However, endorsing Ryan is like cattle endorsing the beef industry. Given, where you come from, you should know.


Well, if there was any doubt you DU guys had your work cut out for you this election, the lame posts you guys are putting up as justification for re-electing O-Nothing removes it.

It's almost boring.

Why don't you tell us again, how great O-Nothing has been for working Americans (we already know how great he has been for the ones who don't want to work so you can skip that part).

RussP
08-15-2012, 07:58
Well, if there was any doubt you DU guys had your work cut out for you this election, the lame posts you guys are putting up as justification for re-electing O-Nothing removes it.

It's almost boring.

Why don't you tell us again, how great O-Nothing has been for working Americans (we already know how great he has been for the ones who don't want to work so you can skip that part).:thumbsup:

Kablam
08-15-2012, 15:04
I have no love for Obama. However, endorsing Ryan is like cattle endorsing the beef industry. Given, where you come from, you should know.

What did Paul Ryan do to you? Nobody can be so irrational about a politician as you are about Ryan unless you personally got sideways with him somehow. Almost all your slanderous remarks (social security, married rich girl to buy congressional seat) are patently false. What happened that has left you so butt-hurt by Paul Ryan that you have to invent thinigs to make him look like the devil? Please share, maybe we can help.

countrygun
08-15-2012, 15:10
What did Paul Ryan do to you? Nobody can be so irrational about a politician as you are about Ryan unless you personally got sideways with him somehow. Almost all your slanderous remarks (social security, married rich girl to buy congressional seat) are patently false. What happened that has left you so butt-hurt by Paul Ryan that you have to invent thinigs to make him look like the devil? Please share, maybe we can help.


C'mon, he is just offering some comic relief around here. He isn't serious he's just trying to amuse us.

Jonesee
08-15-2012, 16:52
Kingarthurhk
Just wait until you file next years taxes - then you'll see who really has put the corn cob where the sun don't shine! Obamacare kicks in the largest tax increase in American history! And since Congress- Harry Reid will do nothing about taxes you get hit with the second biggest tax in history! So yea the Socialist Government of Obamamoa will definately make you all warm an fuzzy soon- grab your ankles!:steamed:

Can you cite a source for this?

The potential tax increases I am aware of is discontinuation of the Bush tax rollback, and discontinuation of the temporary FICA tax rollback.

Are there others?

Kingarthurhk
08-15-2012, 16:54
Well, if there was any doubt you DU guys had your work cut out for you this election, the lame posts you guys are putting up as justification for re-electing O-Nothing removes it.

It's almost boring.

Why don't you tell us again, how great O-Nothing has been for working Americans (we already know how great he has been for the ones who don't want to work so you can skip that part).

I am not about O, I realize you are probably of the mentality of I am retired, I got mine. However, I wouldn't be suprised if Ryan leads the way to run rough shod over the folks that are still working, and then come after your *****on next.

Kablam
08-15-2012, 17:22
Can you cite a source for this?

The potential tax increases I am aware of is discontinuation of the Bush tax rollback, and discontinuation of the temporary FICA tax rollback.

Are there others?

Capital gains tax goes to 20%. There's a 3.8% tax on certain investements for people over 200K or 250K married. Those investments are basically capital gains. This is a medicare tax I think. So for "high earners" the capital gains rate is up from 15% to 23.8% (I believe the top dividend rate goes to 43.4%, but not positive).

Combine this with income tax increases proposed by letting the present rates default back to the previous levels, and you have a fairly sizable income tax (as well as estate tax) icrease that will do nothing about the deficits these people want ot run, but WILL in fact punish successful folks that may be able to produce jobs (unlike the gov).

A 2.3% tax on medical device manufacturing. This is a gross reciepts tax so it's actuall worse than it sounds. I know that's not an income tax, but the price of those devices will go up and guess who pays for that. Need help? The same people that are paying income taxes.

Raising the tax deduction threshold on medical expenses from 7.5% to 10%.

Placing a cap on flexible spending accounts at $2500. There is no cap now and this allows you to use pre-tax dollars to pay for planned big expenses like braces or special needs tuition for special needs kids.

There's a medicare payroll tax inthere someplace too.

There's more, but you get the idea.

Jonesee
08-15-2012, 17:40
Capital gains tax goes to 20%. There's a 3.8% tax on certain investements for people over 200K or 250K married. Those investments are basically capital gains. This is a medicare tax I think. So for "high earners" the capital gains rate is up from 15% to 23.8% (I believe the top dividend rate goes to 43.4%, but not positive).

Combine this with income tax increases proposed by letting the present rates default back to the previous levels, and you have a fairly sizable income tax (as well as estate tax) icrease that will do nothing about the deficits these people want ot run, but WILL in fact punish successful folks that may be able to produce jobs (unlike the gov).

A 2.3% tax on medical device manufacturing. This is a gross reciepts tax so it's actuall worse than it sounds. I know that's not an income tax, but the price of those devices will go up and guess who pays for that. Need help? The same people that are paying income taxes.

Raising the tax deduction threshold on medical expenses from 7.5% to 10%.

Placing a cap on flexible spending accounts at $2500. There is no cap now and this allows you to use pre-tax dollars to pay for planned big expenses like braces or special needs tuition for special needs kids.

There's a medicare payroll tax inthere someplace too.

There's more, but you get the idea.


Whoahhhh...

are those all scheduled to take effect in 2013???

please cite your source.

Flying-Dutchman
08-15-2012, 17:54
Whoahhhh...

are those all scheduled to take effect in 2013???

please cite your source.
Do a Google search; taxes are going up January 1st 2013 (after Obama’s election of course).

A lot of it affects those rich bastards ($200k/year).

3.8% real estate sales tax.

Free healthcare ain’t free. These taxes along with the end of the Bush tax rates will crater the economy.

Hello Great Recession II.

Jonesee
08-15-2012, 18:02
Do a Google search; taxes are going up January 1st 2013 (after Obama’s election of course).

A lot of it affects those rich bastards ($200k/year).

3.8% real estate sales tax.

Free healthcare ain’t free. These taxes along with the end of the Bush tax rates will crater the economy.

Hello Great Recession II.

OK I researched it, and the only taxes actually scheduled to increase are the ones I mentioned earlier. That is the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the reinstatement of full FICA withholding.

The healthcare "tax" goes into effect January of 2014.

I already knew about those. Everything else was bills yet to be written and voted on, speculation, and proposals from both sides of the aisle that haven't made it to vote yet.

Again, if I am missing something, post the reputable source. (blogs don't count)

Flying-Dutchman
08-15-2012, 18:24
OK I researched it, and the only taxes actually scheduled to increase are the ones I mentioned earlier. That is the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the reinstatement of full FICA withholding.

The healthcare "tax" goes into effect January of 2014.

I already knew about those. Everything else was bills yet to be written and voted on, speculation, and proposals from both sides of the aisle that haven't made it to vote yet.

Again, if I am missing something, post the reputable source. (blogs don't count)
In 2013 the dividends and capital gains tax is going up with this new 3.8% real estate sales tax. I am in the real estate business so all of this is a big deal to me.

I have not looked much deeper as I am in denial.

I cannot believe these disastrous new tax rates will happen and Obama will cave in like in 2010.

But if Obama wins he may be emboldened to keep the tax hike and we will be at his mercy.

The vast majority of economists strongly warn against implementing these taxes especially at this point in this so-called recovery.

And this is just the beginning. As with all Government programs this will cost much more than originally planned with additional tax increases.

JW1178
08-15-2012, 18:28
Republicans and Democrats talk about cutting spending and they will here and there, but then they just spend it somewhere else. Same with taxes, if they don't increase taxes, they add more taxes. Between a rock and a hard place. We can't afford to cut taxes, but we can't afford the taxes either. We have to increase taxes to make up for the deficit but then again increasing taxes will hurt the economy and result in less revenue. No matter how you look at it, it all is because of the spending. We cut spending and it disrupts a lot because the govt has infiltrated every aspect of our economy.

If the government could just stop increasing the budget every year that would be a huge first step.

One major problem I see is money leaving the country. It's kind of like foreign aid, some argue it's only 1% of the budget and some say it's the best spent money because it saves us other problems, however 1% of 3.8 Trillion is a ton of money and that is money that will leave our nation and very little to none of it comes back. Then oil, which the price of oil sets the price of everything, and it goes to countries who hate us so then we have to spend more money securing the flow. I hate the fact that when I go to fill up my tank I'm funding a RPG to be fired at one of our troops. Well, now I'm on a different subject... sorry.

Jonesee
08-15-2012, 18:30
In 2013 the dividends and capital gains tax is going up with this new 3.8% real estate sales tax. I am in the real estate business so all of this is a big deal to me.

I have not looked much deeper as I am in denial.

I cannot believe these disastrous new tax rates will happen and Obama will cave in like in 2010.

But if Obama wins he may be emboldened to keep the tax hike and we will be at his mercy.

The vast majority of economists strongly warn against implementing these taxes especially at this point in this so-called recovery.

And this is just the beginning. As with all Government programs this will cost much more than originally planned with additional tax increases.



That was all part of the Bush tax cuts. I understand that. The others were talking about taxes that I couldn't find any evidence of.

And I understand the taxes as much or more than most. My wife and I have been blessed as far as income goes. I have no doubt I will be hit hard.

Flying-Dutchman
08-15-2012, 19:03
That was all part of the Bush tax cuts. I understand that. The others were talking about taxes that I couldn't find any evidence of.

And I understand the taxes as much or more than most. My wife and I have been blessed as far as income goes. I have no doubt I will be hit hard.
Capital gain taxes are definitely going up as the previous poster (Kablam) said so if you are selling sell in 2012.

The other stuff he lists I have read about too.

Wait until the tax on “Cadillac Healthcare Plans” kicks in. This will strip all with good company provided health insurance and force them in the same healthcare plan as those on welfare.

Government officials are exempt.

Jonesee
08-15-2012, 19:14
Capital gain taxes are definitely going up as the previous poster (Kablam) said so if you are selling sell in 2012.

The other stuff he lists I have read about too.

Wait until the tax on “Cadillac Healthcare Plans” kicks in. This will strip all with good company provided health insurance and force them in the same healthcare plan as those on welfare.

Government officials are exempt.

I've dealt with Capital Gains for decades prior to the Bush tax cuts. You just have to be aware of the calendar and manage longterm gains rather than short term gains.

And the healthcare tax kicks in in 2014. Compared to the other potential taxes, the healthcare won't really dent the budget.

Kablam
08-15-2012, 20:37
Whoahhhh...

are those all scheduled to take effect in 2013???

please cite your source.

They take effect in 2013 if congress doesn't act. That's my understanding from articles I read in the WSJ and investment news letters from my investment guys. I didn't look up a specific source for my post. Sorry. You can do that as easily as I can. I'm not arguing, just giving examples of tax increases coming our way. I thought that's what you asked for. The biggest hits come from the reversion to the "old" tax rates. Others are buried in the affordable healthcare act. I wasn't trying to stir anything up or ruffle any feathers.

Jonesee
08-15-2012, 21:01
They take effect in 2013 if congress doesn't act. That's my understanding from articles I read in the WSJ and investment news letters from my investment guys. I didn't look up a specific source for my post. Sorry. You can do that as easily as I can. I'm not arguing, just giving examples of tax increases coming our way. I thought that's what you asked for. The biggest hits come from the reversion to the "old" tax rates. Others are buried in the affordable healthcare act. I wasn't trying to stir anything up or ruffle any feathers.

Read the previous posts, we have already discussed it thoroughly.

Kablam
08-16-2012, 13:03
Read the previous posts, we have already discussed it thoroughly.

I'm sure you have. These guys must be lying then. Darned Fox liars.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/05/five-major-obamacare-taxes-that-will-hit-your-wallet-in-2013/


I'm not sure why you just blow off the tax increases that we agree are coming. They are quite large. Increasing capital gains is ok with you? Apparently you have found a way that that increase will not affect your investments by timing. Increasing regular income tax is ok with you? There are taxes that take effect in 2013 that are attached to health care and that's the law of the land right now.

Jonesee
08-16-2012, 17:08
[QUOTE=Kablam;19314347 Increasing capital gains is ok with you? Apparently you have found a way that that increase will not affect your investments by timing[/QUOTE]

My guess you are young or have not been actively investing for very long. The capital gains taxes that get you are the short term capital gains.

The key is to hold long enough to bring the income in as a long term capital gain. And really that tends to make wiser decisions anyway.

I don't sell investment houses within a year and short term stock trades are relegated to my self directed IRAs.

Check with your CPA or tax attorney...

Kablam
08-16-2012, 17:36
The long term rate is 15% now and will go to 20%. Short term is taxed as regualr income. Oh, and that long term rate will go from 0% to 10% if the tax payer is in the 15% tax bracket. That sounds like a tax increase that's not on the "rich" folk.

And your guess would be wrong sir. So please stop correcting everything I say with false information. Nothing I have stated in this thread is incorrect.

Jonesee
08-16-2012, 18:11
Do you have a lot of short term capital gains that are unavoidable?

Maybe you need a tax attorney or CPA.
Best of luck to you.

JW1178
08-16-2012, 18:42
Capitol gains should be like any other form of income. What I mean by that is when you sell out your stocks and use that money as income, it's freaking INCOME and should be treated as such. Now, trade out one stock for another, that's not income. Money made off that stock is like back in the day when your house's value increased.

I don't get it, income tax for people who work for their money and are working class are getting up 20-30% or more, and corporate taxes are what, 42%, and businesses have to pay higher taxes but how HORRIBLE it would be to make those who make their money on stocks to have to pay a 20-23%? Really? The top percent of earners in this country are not out working 99x as hard as the rest of us, they make their money by moving it around. I'm not saying they should be taxed MORE, like Obama says, I just think we need a more fair tax system.

We have half the population not paying the taxes and recieving more bennifits, you have the wealthy having it better than ever out playing, while the working pay the bills. Of course, the top percents pay most of the taxes, and that's because they have all the wealth, so they are paying most of the taxes even with a lower percentage rate? Is that right? Then you have the small businesses paying out most of their profits to taxes while the big businesses pay little to no taxes, which keeps the small business down and the big one's strong.

It should be an even playing field.

Kablam
08-16-2012, 20:35
Do you have a lot of short term capital gains that are unavoidable?

Maybe you need a tax attorney or CPA.
Best of luck to you.

One more time and I quit. LONG TERM capital gains tax is going up in January 2013. That means that the tax on you long term investment income will go up from 15% to 20%. More for you rich investors, up to close to 24% as a result of the health care law. Increase from 0% to 10% for those in the 15% bracket. If your CPA or tax guy isn't telling you this, time for new guys. I'm not making this up. You're a real estate investor and there are some depreciation tax changes with that too. Good luck.