Is Hornady Critical Duty the answer? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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gofastman
08-15-2012, 00:56
I really like the 9mm 147gr HST (I use the +P version because they are coming out of a sub compact barrel)

However, I want a round that offers a bit more penetration,
is the 135gr+P critical duty round a good choice?

ABNAK
08-15-2012, 07:05
Firing the +P 147gr HST from a short barrel basically drops it to a standard pressure velocity, so in effect you're firing regular 147gr HST's. In other words, if you like the penetration of the standard 147gr HST's from a 4" barrel then you will be getting *approximately* the same performance from your short barrel with the +P's.

The Hornady's do not expand to the degree of the HST so yes, you should get more penetration.

Adamz04
08-15-2012, 09:53
If penetration is your goal they may be a good choice. They are not big expanders, but they seem to be constructed well

dkf
08-15-2012, 10:04
Use the standard pressure 147gr HST, you will get more penetration versus the +P version. You can get 50 147gr HSTs for around $30 per 50 and the critical duty around $20 per 20. Big price difference and the HST is a far superior design IMO.

youngdocglock
08-15-2012, 10:05
Use the standard pressure 147gr HST, you will get more penetration versus the +P version. You can get 50 147gr HSTs for around $30 per 50 and the critical duty around $20 per 20. Big price difference and the HST is a far superior design IMO.

Isnt the critical duty just the critical defense with a larger plug?

Andy W
08-15-2012, 11:30
Isnt the critical duty just the critical defense with a larger plug?

It's a heavier bullet too. Critical Defense 9mm uses a 115 grain bullet. Critical Duty is 135 grain.


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dkf
08-15-2012, 12:30
Isnt the critical duty just the critical defense with a larger plug?

Nope.

gofastman
08-16-2012, 20:36
Firing the +P 147gr HST from a short barrel basically drops it to a standard pressure velocity, so in effect you're firing regular 147gr HST's. In other words, if you like the penetration of the standard 147gr HST's from a 4" barrel then you will be getting *approximately* the same performance from your short barrel with the +P's.

The Hornady's do not expand to the degree of the HST so yes, you should get more penetration.

That is my theory too.

Use the standard pressure 147gr HST, you will get more penetration versus the +P version.

NEOH212
08-17-2012, 03:58
Is Hornady Critical Duty the answer?

Nope. Get a street proven round with a good track record.

Your welcome.

KingWalleye
08-17-2012, 17:05
What is the question?

gofastman
08-17-2012, 19:29
What is the question?

what top teir, modern JHP design in 9mm will penetrate significantly deeper than the 147gr HST

dkf
08-17-2012, 20:14
Look at the 147gr Hornady XTP loads.(Custom or TAP) The XTP is designed to achieve around 1.5X expansion which helps to increase penetration vs a bullet like the HST which expands to a larger diameter. As a said before in such a short barrel the standard pressure 147gr HST should provide the extra penetration.

A 147gr Std Pressure HST fired from a Kahr CW9 into gel. Over 15" of penetration.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/SDV10/9mm147grfromCW9Kahr1.jpg

dhoomonyou
08-17-2012, 22:46
Jammed my 27

tacdriver22mk2
08-18-2012, 07:14
my choice for 9mm is ranger t NON BONDED +p+ 127 gr its awfully close to some 357's

50 rounds for 27 bucks on the first thing that came up on bing i dont remember what i payed for my stash

in my opinion that combination of the crushing force from the mushroomed bullet and the broadhead like action of those "talons" thus i choose it for everything but sub 9 cause you need bone crushing penetration not expansion

if your using one of those wimpy non +p+ rated guns *cough any thing but glock*
then a nice +p or standard pressure option of your persuasion in whatever weight you want

my second choice is the classic speer gold dot in whatever flavor hst's are good too

gofastman
08-18-2012, 13:07
my choice for 9mm is ranger t NON BONDED +p+ 127 gr its awfully close to some 357's

50 rounds for 27 bucks on the first thing that came up on bing i dont remember what i payed for my stash

in my opinion that combination of the crushing force from the mushroomed bullet and the broadhead like action of those "talons" thus i choose it for everything but sub 9 cause you need bone crushing penetration not expansion

if your using one of those wimpy non +p+ rated guns *cough any thing but glock*
then a nice +p or standard pressure option of your persuasion in whatever weight you want

my second choice is the classic speer gold dot in whatever flavor hst's are good too
Did you read the opening thread at all? :upeyes:

XTP is designed to achieve around 1.5X expansion
The XTP is great and all, and I love its design philosophy!
However, I dont think its in the same "top tier" class as an HST or Gold Dot for the concrete jungle.
Im wondering If the Critical Duty stuff will offer the great penetration of the XTP design, but maintain the ultra reliable expansion characteristics of Rangers, Gold Dots, HST's, etc.
at least according to their track records and tons of ballistic testing.

Nope. Get a street proven round with a good track record.

Your welcome.

Welcome to my ignore list :wavey:

cowboy1964
08-18-2012, 13:38
I would NOT pick Ranger-T 127+P+ if I were going for maximum penetration. Then again, it penetrates very far during the times it fails to expand (which appears to be quite often).

Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ 127 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube

dkf
08-18-2012, 15:28
The XTP is great and all, and I love its design philosophy!
However, I dont think its in the same "top tier" class as an HST or Gold Dot for the concrete jungle.
Im wondering If the Critical Duty stuff will offer the great penetration of the XTP design, but maintain the ultra reliable expansion characteristics of Rangers, Gold Dots, HST's, etc.
at least according to their track records and tons of ballistic testing.The XTP is a reliable expanding bullet, I would trust it more than any of the Ranger designs for expansion reliability. Sure the XTP is not a wiz bang new design but it works and works well.

If it were me I would not be going with a very deep penetrating bullet (like much over 15") in the "concrete jungle" but that is just my preference.

Quarter Tank
08-18-2012, 18:28
I carry 147 HST from my G19. I have however began to carry 124 +p Gold Dots and feel adequately armed.


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unit1069
08-18-2012, 21:29
I carry 147 HST from my G19. I have however began to carry 124 +p Gold Dots and feel adequately armed.

From all I've read both rounds will serve quite well in a self-defense situation.

gofastman
08-18-2012, 22:12
The XTP is a reliable expanding bullet, I would trust it more than any of the Ranger designs for expansion reliability. Sure the XTP is not a wiz bang new design but it works and works well.

If it were me I would not be going with a very deep penetrating bullet (like much over 15") in the "concrete jungle" but that is just my preference.
dont get me wrong here, I love the XTP, but it has been shown more than a few times that it has problems with heavy clothing, also I don't feel Hornady pushes their bullets fast enough for them to operate properly out of a full size gun, let alone a sub-compact barrel.
Im of the opinion that 13-18" of penetration is the ideal amount, Im not asking anyone to agree with it, its just what I want

tacdriver22mk2
08-19-2012, 02:39
I would NOT pick Ranger-T 127+P+ if I were going for maximum penetration. Then again, it penetrates very far during the times it fails to expand (which appears to be quite often).

Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ 127 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSY018CXRi8)

i agree if you are going for max penetration go for something like a gold dot 147 grain or maybe a hardcast flat nose cause that will out penetrate anything i have mentioned

as for the ranger t 127 +p+ i was going off of his previous three tests, my own testing, the real life shoots that leo's have put them through and people like massad ayoobs recommendation of this very load and believe you me he knows more than most of the sources i find my info at

my opinion of the critical duty is not great but if that's what you choose rock on i would recommend that you look into this quoted video's channel its tnoutdoors9 he has much more testing on most of the flavors of ammo out there and fyi if i remember correctly he favors penetration and so he chooses gold dot 147gr ammo and i mean look at that rounds leo shoot record it speaks for itself

larson1122
08-21-2012, 07:14
Use the standard pressure 147gr HST, you will get more penetration versus the +P version.

I agree, the 147gr HST standard pressure would be a good choice, and it is what I carry in my G26. I don't see anything wrong with the +P version either, I just tend to prefer standard pressure loads.

You can get 50 147gr HSTs for around $30 per 50 and the critical duty around $20 per 20. Big price difference and the HST is a far superior design IMO.

Simple solution to this would be to avoid the 20 round boxes. The 50 rounds boxes aren't impossible to find if that is what you are looking for, even Cabela's has the 50 round boxes in stock around here.

http://www.kylesgunshop.com/store.php/pd4733302/hornady_critical_duty_9mm_135gr_le_90235_50_rounds

http://sgammo.com/product/hornady/50-rd-box-9mm-hornady-critical-duty-le-135-grain-p-90225

cowboy1964
08-21-2012, 11:50
my choice for 9mm is ranger t NON BONDED +p+ 127 gr its awfully close to some 357's


Not that close. You might get just over 1200 fps from the 127+P+ out of 4" barrel.

Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ 127 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube

ABNAK
08-21-2012, 13:52
Not that close. You might get just over 1200 fps from the 127+P+ out of 4" barrel.

Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ 127 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSY018CXRi8)

That video and my own testing of the .40 Ranger-T loads have really turned me off to that brand. It's one thing to not give as much expansion as you'd like, but totally another to not expand at all!

tacdriver22mk2
08-22-2012, 04:15
Not that close. You might get just over 1200 fps from the 127+P+ out of 4" barrel.

Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ 127 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSY018CXRi8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ln6DcUxhE&feature=channel&list=UL

yep and heres what a 357 sig did and if you look back a little in tnoutdoors9's channel you will see he did 124gr pdx1's that clocked in at around 1230