Underwood 124gr +p+ gel test [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Snapper2
08-16-2012, 22:33
Anyone check out the gel test on youtube yet? A little over 13" penetration and .726 expansion through denim. Seems like a good carry round out of a g26.:cool:

M 7
08-16-2012, 23:11
Linky?

Tiro Fijo
08-16-2012, 23:49
9mm +P+ Underwood Gold Dot 124 gr Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

Adamz04
08-17-2012, 03:08
Yep, it's what I now have loaded in my 26. I guess it may do 1250 roughly out of my 26 so that puts it in the same ballpark as a standard 124gr+p gold dot out of a g19. Appears to have all the characteristics of a great carry load. I also ordered some of underwoods 147gr+p+ to possibly carry in the colder weather but I have yet to shoot any of it.

spcwes
08-17-2012, 09:34
Very nice results for a very impressive round. Would carry that any day of the week year around!

unit1069
08-17-2012, 09:51
Can anyone give me an idea about Underwood's shipping costs? And has anyone seen any signs of overpressure or case bulge in these hot loads?

For the time being I'm pretty much caught up with premium self-defense JHP ammo in 9mm with my recent purchase of Remington 124-grain +P Bonded to go along with almost a dozen premium JHP loads for that caliber, but I'm very interested in the Underwood 125-grain .357sig Gold Dot. tnoutdoors video of the Underwood +P+ stressed the recoil so I've decided instead of maxing out 9mm I'll just pick up the .357sig pistol instead.

It seems Underwood's published velocities are the real deal and Underwood 125-grain Gold Dot would be a nice addition to the stash of .357sig rounds I now have that span the high 1200s to mid/high 1300s. I'm sure if I didn't have a .357sig I'd be jumping on Underwood's 9mm.

dkf
08-17-2012, 09:56
I got the notification when the video was uploaded and watched it right away.

Performed very nicely. Far better than the 115gr version IMO.

cowboy1964
08-17-2012, 09:58
I also ordered some of underwoods 147gr+p+ to possibly carry in the colder weather but I have yet to shoot any of it.

What is the rationale for going from 124 to 147 just because of colder weather? I can understand going up in caliber (eg. 9mm to .45) because of the added chance of clogging, but 124 to 147 I don't see. 147's tend to penetrate a bit more regardless. If they clog they are probably just going to penetrate even more.

9mm +p+
08-17-2012, 10:12
Sold me on a few boxes of it.

Snapper2
08-17-2012, 10:50
Yep, it's what I now have loaded in my 26. I guess it may do 1250 roughly out of my 26 so that puts it in the same ballpark as a standard 124gr+p gold dot out of a g19. Appears to have all the characteristics of a great carry load. I also ordered some of underwoods 147gr+p+ to possibly carry in the colder weather but I have yet to shoot any of it.
I have a g19 factory barrel in my g26. Accuracy is very consistent with this ammo. I might buy some of the 147gr +p+ also but I'm going to wait to see how it does in gel at that velocity. I'm betting the petals will fold.

Tiro Fijo
08-17-2012, 14:42
Another very important factor not mentioned is that this particular Underwood load is, at least in my guns, extremely accurate.

cowboy1964
08-17-2012, 16:53
Another very important factor not mentioned is that this particular Underwood load is, at least in my guns, extremely accurate.

Here we go again.

Give us some examples, show us some targets.

cowboy1964
08-17-2012, 17:01
I have to say this is the first Underwood Gold Dot ammo that I'm intrigued by. I may try a box or two. My main concern will be recoil and muzzle flash, especially from smaller guns like the PM9.

unit1069
08-17-2012, 18:12
I just reviewed the email I received from Speer some months ago regarding the 125-grain six petal .357sig Gold Dot bullet design and according to Speer the performance window is given as reliable at 1200-1437 fps. It looks like Underwood is pushing the envelope to Speer's specs, and according to GT members like Glolt and Canyon Man the Gold Dot holds up well beyond those parameters although expansion isn't guaranteed through various barriers.

I wonder if niche ammo companies with good quality control ought to be using this particular .355" bullet design in their amped-up 9mm ammo as well as their .357sig offerings. Makes sense to me. (I'll bill my consulting fees to the ammo companies later :cool:)

Tiro Fijo
08-17-2012, 19:03
Here we go again.

Give us some examples, show us some targets.


What part of the "in my guns" don't you understand? Hell, you can't even shoot a Gen 4 w/o brass to your precious little face!! Go troll in GG and leave me out of your posts. :wavey:

Happypuppy
08-17-2012, 19:33
I have to say this is the first Underwood Gold Dot ammo that I'm intrigued by. I may try a box or two. My main concern will be recoil and muzzle flash, especially from smaller guns like the PM9.

I have used +p+ 124 load and in the g19 the flash was the same or at least not worse. It does have more more muzzle jump , which maybe a concern in even a smaller handgun


Sent via Mental Power

Glockbuster
08-17-2012, 21:11
Impressive round, looks like they improved an already good round.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

avenues165
08-17-2012, 21:35
I recall a thread on here a month or two ago that had numbers from a 4" barrel for the Underwood 357 sig. IIRC the average was around 1,380fps. Also, IIRC, the 1,450fps number they claim is from a G31.

I hope this was a bad chronograph or a fluke, because 1,380fps from a 4" barrel is not super impressive for 357 sig.

avenues165
08-17-2012, 21:39
Sorry, ~1,350fps from a 4" barrel for 125gr 357 sig.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1435745

I was all ready to buy the Underwood 357 sig load with the GDs, this thread was so disappointing.

kjunderwood
08-17-2012, 22:21
Can anyone give me an idea about Underwood's shipping costs?

If you head over to our website www.UnderwoodAmmo.com you can calculate exact shipping in the shopping cart.

Glockbuster
08-18-2012, 08:16
I am not sure but are under the impression that some loads have room for improvement while others are already pretty hot from Speer. I get consistent 1415 to 1430 fps out of 357 sig 54234 from my G31 at 2,800 feet and 85 degrees outside. I am guessing it would be a tad faster at standard atmosphere conditions and even higher at higher altitudes and colder temperatures.

avenues165
08-18-2012, 10:03
In a perfect world I would want my 357 sig loads to sit, at a minimum, 1,400fps from a 4" barrel. Otherwise, I might as well buy this 9mm +p+ loading.

The numbers from Underwood's .380acp, 9mm +p+, 10mm, and I'm sure others are really fast. I just wish the 357 sig had more pop to it. I must say that I do not reload, so I do not know whether 1,450fps from a 4" is a realistic number. I have read that was the goal when the 357 sig was developed. A lot of folks feel that SD 357 sig loads are watered down. I personally want it to be moving, otherwise, it makes sense to stick with the 9mm +p+. Less blast and cheaper plinking ammo.

For my new-to-me Gen 4 G23 I intended to buy a G32 barrel. With the numbers from the Underwood 9mm +p+ I may first buy a 40-9mm barrel. Fast stuff that 9mm is, and impressive test results!

Snapper2
08-18-2012, 12:56
In a perfect world I would want my 357 sig loads to sit, at a minimum, 1,400fps from a 4" barrel. Otherwise, I might as well buy this 9mm +p+ loading.

The numbers from Underwood's .380acp, 9mm +p+, 10mm, and I'm sure others are really fast. I just wish the 357 sig had more pop to it. I must say that I do not reload, so I do not know whether 1,450fps from a 4" is a realistic number. I have read that was the goal when the 357 sig was developed. A lot of folks feel that SD 357 sig loads are watered down. I personally want it to be moving, otherwise, it makes sense to stick with the 9mm +p+. Less blast and cheaper plinking ammo.

For my new-to-me Gen 4 G23 I intended to buy a G32 barrel. With the numbers from the Underwood 9mm +p+ I may first buy a 40-9mm barrel. Fast stuff that 9mm is, and impressive test results!
I agree with you on the sig velocity vs the 9mm +p+.In my case I also have a g23 I could get a sig barrel but the g26 conceals better imo. I could compare apples to apples and get a g33 with the g32 barrel but I dont know if theres really that much difference in the results. Except the hot sig round will have more recoil.:dunno:

cowboy1964
08-18-2012, 13:42
.357 Sig, even at "only" 1350 fps, provides tremendous wound cavities AND penetration. Maybe it's the different bullet design for the .357 Sig but it is certainly more impressive than even the hottest 9mm. This is one reason I don't get too all excited about simply pushing 9mm Gold Dots to extra high velocity... they weren't designed for that so it's not surprising that the results aren't spectacularily different from the lower velocity Gold Dots.

.357 SIG Speer Gold Dot Ammo Test - YouTube

.357 SIG Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

9mm +p+
08-18-2012, 15:37
Seriously? You're going to say that a 125@1350 is that much more effective than a 124@1300? Bullets are of the same design and will behave similarly. You're biased towards the 357, that's fine Ilike it too but the fact is this load is so close to a 357 in performance NO person shot with this load is going to know the difference,period. Shooting jello is NOT shooting flesh and at no time is shooting flesh going to be exact, bullets do weird things in flesh. One that should expand doesn't and a FMJ will expand, I've seen 45 ACP 230 ball expand on a shoulder blade.The bottom line is we put too much emphasis on jello shooting, it is not the same, similar maybe but it is no the same. And to argue that almost identical bullets out of 2 differrent rounds at very simlar velocities and one is better than the other is just trying to pick an argument.

dkf
08-18-2012, 15:51
You're biased towards the 357, that's fine Ilike it too but the fact is this load is so close to a 357 in performance NO person shot with this load is going to know the difference,period.Why exactly did they go through all the trouble developing the cartridge that simulates the .357mag if it is just as effective as the 9mm? Cowboy does not even own a .357sig weapon. Sounds like you are showing much more biased.

I will agree that gel tests are only part of the equation and there are a lot of variables. However I am not going to ignore more damage when I see it. More damage with sufficient penetration sure is not going to be a bad thing. The 9mm is pretty much tapped out at 1300fps with a 124gr bullet and the .357sig is not even breathing hard.

9mm +p+
08-18-2012, 16:33
Why exactly did they go through all the trouble developing the cartridge that simulates the .357mag if it is just as effective as the 9mm? Cowboy does not even own a .357sig weapon. Sounds like you are showing much more biased.

I will agree that gel tests are only part of the equation and there are a lot of variables. However I am not going to ignore more damage when I see it. More damage with sufficient penetration sure is not going to be a bad thing. The 9mm is pretty much tapped out at 1300fps with a 124gr bullet and the .357sig is not even breathing hard.

Well let's see genius the 357 was developed when? 94 IIRC was this or other high performance 9 loads available then? Nope. How cute you taking up for your buddy though, have you seen anyone shot with either? Or anything for that matter? How do you know one would do more damage than the other? Let me guess, jello? You don't really know and neither does he and neither do I for that matter, it's all conjecture and emotion:upeyes: As for why did "they" go to the trouble of coming up with the 357? Simple really so the almighty sig co. could have their name on a round, the guy who came up with the idea has a boner for bottlenecked pistol rounds. Same as for the gap, so Glock could have their name on a round

unit1069
08-18-2012, 17:49
I'm happy to see ammo companies pushing the bonded 125-grain .357sig bullets to their maximum and I hope the major bullet makers develop a specific .357sig design at a weight of 140-160.

I agree 9mm ammo technology has taken giant strides in bringing that caliber to its potential, but I also believe .357sig's potential hasn't really been developed as of yet.

I'd love to see a 147-grain HST and Gold Dot in .357sig if the bullet is specifically designed for that caliber's velocity. Even so, tnoutdoors' 125-grain Golden Saber .357sig Bonded that achieved impressive temporary cavity and 16" of penetration makes me wonder just where the optimum point is for all-round self-defense purposes that covers a wide range of situations.

dkf
08-18-2012, 18:27
Well let's see genius the 357 was developed when? 94 IIRC was this or other high performance 9 loads available then? Nope. How cute you taking up for your buddy though, have you seen anyone shot with either? Or anything for that matter? How do you know one would do more damage than the other? Let me guess, jello? You don't really know and neither does he and neither do I for that matter, it's all conjecture and emotion:upeyes: As for why did "they" go to the trouble of coming up with the 357? Simple really so the almighty sig co. could have their name on a round, the guy who came up with the idea has a boner for bottlenecked pistol rounds. Same as for the gap, so Glock could have their name on a round

LOL. Someone has their shorts all bunched up. Cowboy is hardly my "buddy", don't know him and disagree with him plenty. He usually doesn't whine like a little girl though, I suppose he leaves that for you to do.:supergrin:

avenues165
08-18-2012, 18:35
I had no intention of starting a 9mm +p+ vs. 357 sig argument. I like both cartridges and am glad there is a variety of cartridges. The most options, hopefully more interested people, hopefully more folks shooting, and more folks that get pissed when others talk about limiting our rights!

I agree with those that have said that the 357 auto has not yet been brought to its potential. I want to see hotter loads with bullets designed for higher velocities. I do not have a vendetta against Underwood, I am just holding their feet to the fire on their 357 sig GD load. I was truly hoping for a faster round.

It just seems like the ammo manufacturers trip over themselves to make the 9mm smokin' hot and go out of their way to keep the 357 sig loads mild.

I will not give up on the 357 auto. It really has impressive test results even at 1,350fps. However, I will make sure to direct my money to 357 auto manufacturers, whenever possible, that do one or more of the following:

1. Push velocities to where they should be, above 1,400fps for a 125gr bullet.

2. Develop innovative loadings for the 357 auto with a variety of bullet weights.

3. Develop new bullet designs that make the 357 auto what it could be.

4. Make cheap plinking ammo.

I have to say that Underwood's 357 sig FMJ is very affordable, and for that alone they should be supported, IMHO.

dkf
08-18-2012, 18:38
Another good round that lurks in the shadows a lot is the .38 super. It is right up there with the .357sig as far as velocities go, maybe not quite on some bullets but really close. I wish Glock and some other companies would come out with some plastic guns in .38 super. I sure would buy one or two.:cool:

If a bullet profile works good for .357sig most times it will work good in th e.38super as well.

spcwes
08-19-2012, 00:55
Another good round that lurks in the shadows a lot is the .38 super. It is right up there with the .357sig as far as velocities go, maybe not quite on some bullets but really close. I wish Glock and some other companies would come out with some plastic guns in .38 super. I sure would buy one or two.:cool:

If a bullet profile works good for .357sig most times it will work good in th e.38super as well.

To be honest I can't wait to try out the new Sig 1911's chambered in 357sig with a 5" barrel :supergrin:

NEOH212
08-19-2012, 02:21
124 +P+ 9mm 1,298 fps 463 Ft. Lbs.

165 .40 S&W 1,150 fps 484 Ft. Lbs. (standard velocity by the way. :whistling:)

WOW! They almost made the 9mm into a .40!

Almost but not quite!

:tongueout:

There's the 9mm trying to be a .40 again. Funny. The 9mm crowd prefers the hot +P and +P+ stuff. It sure seems like they want .40 ballistics our of their 9mm pistols pretty bad doesn't it?:whistling:

Glockbuster
08-19-2012, 08:08
I had no intention of starting a 9mm +p+ vs. 357 sig argument. I like both cartridges and am glad there is a variety of cartridges. The most options, hopefully more interested people, hopefully more folks shooting, and more folks that get pissed when others talk about limiting our rights!

I agree with those that have said that the 357 auto has not yet been brought to its potential. I want to see hotter loads with bullets designed for higher velocities. I do not have a vendetta against Underwood, I am just holding their feet to the fire on their 357 sig GD load. I was truly hoping for a faster round.

It just seems like the ammo manufacturers trip over themselves to make the 9mm smokin' hot and go out of their way to keep the 357 sig loads mild.

I will not give up on the 357 auto. It really has impressive test results even at 1,350fps. However, I will make sure to direct my money to 357 auto manufacturers, whenever possible, that do one or more of the following:

1. Push velocities to where they should be, above 1,400fps for a 125gr bullet.

2. Develop innovative loadings for the 357 auto with a variety of bullet weights.

3. Develop new bullet designs that make the 357 auto what it could be.

4. Make cheap plinking ammo.

I have to say that Underwood's 357 sig FMJ is very affordable, and for that alone they should be supported, IMHO.

Hmm dont really agree with you.


Talk about a .40 already being a hot round in other threads, at 35,000 PSI.

Talk about a hot 9mm +P+ which is not in SAAMI specs but is believed to be around 39,000 PSI.

And talk about 357 Sig which I believe is a 40,000 PSI round in its hottest loadings available to date.

Seems to me it is already topping out.

And FWIW, the 357 sig Gold Dot bullet is very different in design from its 9 mm sibling. The hollow point is very shallow and wider. It ensures reliable expansion and little likelyhood of plugging up, something that happens more often with the narrower and deeper hollow points.

I am a happy clam with the 357 Sig Gold Dot loading as is.

ABNAK
08-19-2012, 13:01
1. Push velocities to where they should be, above 1,400fps for a 125gr bullet.



DoubleTap loads a 125gr Sierra JHP that does 1452fps average from my Glock 23 with a 4" Storm Lake drop-in barrel. This load *should* pretty much mimic the vaunted .357 Magnum 125gr SJHP in it's terminal ballistics......and yes, like that famous round it too will likely fragment to some degree.

Buffalo Bore loads a 125gr Gold Dot (that appears to be a 9mm one as it has a deeper cavity than the true 357Sig GD's) that was around 1500fps average out of the same gun.

I would put BB and DT in the same "boutique" category as Underwood.

dkf
08-19-2012, 14:27
To be honest I can't wait to try out the new Sig 1911's chambered in 357sig with a 5" barrel :supergrin:

You and me both. Although I am not thrilled by the looks of some of the SIG 1911s.

Talk about a hot 9mm +P+ which is not in SAAMI specs but is believed to be around 39,000 PSI.

Some sources have said as high as 42,000psi for +P+.

I am a happy clam with the 357 Sig Gold Dot loading as is.

Can't argue with you there. I like the 54234 load and carry it in one of my guns.

spcwes
08-20-2012, 07:16
1. Push velocities to where they should be, above 1,400fps for a 125gr bullet.


Speer Gold Dot part# 54234: 1375fps 525 ftlbs out of a 4" test barrel. Testers on GT are seeing close to 1400fps from a glock 32 and over 1410fps in a glock 31 as an average. If you shop this round can be had in 50rd boxes for between $25-$30 bucks I have been told.

cowboy1964
08-20-2012, 17:37
Seriously? You're going to say that a 125@1350 is that much more effective than a 124@1300? Bullets are of the same design and will behave similarly. You're biased towards the 357, that's fine Ilike it too but the fact is this load is so close to a 357 in performance NO person shot with this load is going to know the difference,period..

The bullets are NOT of the same design. The Gold Dot 125gr .357 Sig is not the same as the 9mm Gold Dot. I assume Underwood is loading the 9mm version.

.357 SIG Speer Gold Dot Ammo Test - YouTube

WinterWizard
08-20-2012, 17:41
124 +P+ 9mm 1,298 fps 463 Ft. Lbs.

165 .40 S&W 1,150 fps 484 Ft. Lbs. (standard velocity by the way. :whistling:)

WOW! They almost made the 9mm into a .40!

Almost but not quite!

:tongueout:

There's the 9mm trying to be a .40 again. Funny. The 9mm crowd prefers the hot +P and +P+ stuff. It sure seems like they want .40 ballistics our of their 9mm pistols pretty bad doesn't it?:whistling:

Ha ha ha ha!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

cowboy1964
08-20-2012, 17:43
If energy is the #1 factor then .357 Sig wins.

If weight is the #1 factor then .45 ACP wins.

If diameter is the #1 factor then .45 ACP wins.

If capacity is the #1 factor then 9mm wins.

If shootability is the #1 factor then 9mm wins.

If cost is the #1 factor then 9mm wins.

9mm and .40 are the "compromise" calibers. In fact, .40 doesn't win in any category. Doesn't mean it's not effective though, right?

Of course there are other calibers besides those four and when you include those none of the four are truly #1 either.

These caliber wars are silly.

unit1069
08-20-2012, 19:15
The bullets are NOT of the same design. The Gold Dot 125gr .357 Sig is not the same as the 9mm Gold Dot. I assume Underwood is loading the 9mm version.

I was told that Underwood uses the Speer 6-petal 125-grain .357sig Gold Dot in their .357sig ammo.

avenues165
08-20-2012, 20:07
I was told that Underwood uses the Speer 6-petal 125-grain .357sig Gold Dot in their .357sig ammo.

IIRC I read this somewhere on GT.

Adamz04
08-21-2012, 03:37
I was told that Underwood uses the Speer 6-petal 125-grain .357sig Gold Dot in their .357sig ammo.

This is correct. I have a box and it is indeed the 6 petal 357sig gold dot not the 9mm gold dot.

TWS G26
09-13-2012, 22:10
The bullets are NOT of the same design. The Gold Dot 125gr .357 Sig is not the same as the 9mm Gold Dot. I assume Underwood is loading the 9mm version.

.357 SIG Speer Gold Dot Ammo Test - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5FOFnJVS0E)

Another confirmation that Underwood is loading the 6 petal Gold Dot, 357 SIG 125 gr bullet with the shallow hollowpoint cavity. I have a couple of boxes, but clocked velocities came in just over 1350 fps if I recall, Glock 32, as opposed to the 1450 advertised. Underwood is recalibrating and supposed to have something available late Sept/early October.

avenues165
09-13-2012, 22:55
Too bad. At 1,350fps the Underwood is not the leader of the pack, or even close to it. I have heard of the Speer GD 6 petal load chrono'ing faster.

Hopefully they will straighten this out. Their reputation is for producing hot loads. 1,350fps ain't hot for the 357 auto.

The 10mm, 9mm, and .40 folks got their velocity fix, where's mine?

SCmasterblaster
09-15-2012, 07:20
I carry Winchester Ranger 115gr JHP +p+ in my G17. I have chronoed it at 1400 FPS (500 FRE!)

avenues165
09-16-2012, 19:34
I carry Winchester Ranger 115gr JHP +p+ in my G17. I have chronoed it at 1400 FPS (500 FRE!)

I see folks writing about the 115gr. +p+ loads for 9mm on GT a lot. I have read that the Federal 9BPLE (115gr +p+) has a good street record. Does the Winchester 115gr load have good stats?

I like a little fragmentation, I personally think it could aid in bleed out and cause additional damage. I would guess at 1,400fps that 115gr pill would give some fragmentation.

It is just amazing how much velocity these companies are getting with the 9mm.