Ryan's shifting position on immigration [Archive] - Glock Talk

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maxsnafu
08-17-2012, 17:37
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/campaign-issues/immigration/243913-ryans-record-on-immigration-its-complicated

hogship
08-17-2012, 18:34
OK.....what should we do about it?

Vote for Obama/Biden?.....:rofl:

Romney has shifted his beliefs, too.

As far as I can tell, Obama has never changed his beliefs. The problem, as I see it, is he hasn't told the truth about what he does believe.....and that's the greater problem.

ooc

countrygun
08-17-2012, 18:52
A changed his position? Oh the horror!

Just exactly what is a politician supposed to do? are they supposed to be completely inflexible no matter what is good for their constituents?

What happens if their position on a single issue is in conflict with what most of their constituents want? Are they to work for their own opinion and a minority of the people they represent, or are they supposed to work for the good of all their constituents?

Flying-Dutchman
08-18-2012, 06:41
Obama just bypassed the Constitution and issued an executive order giving amnesty to illegal migrants.

When Obama tried legal methods, it was shot down in the Congress.

Romney/Ryan will abide by the Constitution.

GAFinch
08-18-2012, 07:17
Underfunded border enforcement and the existence of sanctuary cities have been an open secret for 40 years. Despite our theoretical positions, it's an issue that's going to be hard to actually solve both fairly and effectively, just like with SS and Medicare reform. A bipartisan compromise solution that's tied to a sealed border to prevent future problems is about the best we can realistically expect to ever get.

JBnTX
08-18-2012, 07:38
Oh the horror of it all!
Paul Ryan has flip flopped on a political issue?

That does it, it's over.:crying:

Cavalry Doc
08-18-2012, 09:00
Come on guys, has anybody had the exact same opinion in the last 20 years on every issue?

Seems he's maturing in the right direction.

Immigrant-rights advocates, meanwhile, have a decidedly different take. They say Ryan's opposition to the DREAM Act — combined with his support for a 2005 bill that would have turned illegal immigrants from civil offenders to felons — is ample evidence that the Wisconsin Republican has abandoned the more lenient approach to illegal immigrants that marked his earlier years in Washington.

Glock30Eric
08-18-2012, 09:14
You just saw a preview of what they will do when they take the control at the helm.

They will change their positions which you would never thought of. They sucks just as Obama. No point to argue which one is better.


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Cavalry Doc
08-18-2012, 09:27
You just saw a preview of what they will do when they take the control at the helm.

They will change their positions which you would never thought of. They sucks just as Obama. No point to argue which one is better.


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Yup, you should probably stay home on election day.

JBnTX
08-18-2012, 09:59
You just saw a preview of what they will do when they take the control at the helm.

They will change their positions which you would never thought of. They sucks just as Obama. No point to argue which one is better.



Where do you get this type of "preview" information about Romney and Ryan?

A time machine, crystal ball, tarot cards, tossing dead chicken bones on a table, or reading tea leaves?

..

GAFinch
08-18-2012, 10:10
Come on guys, has anybody had the exact same opinion in the last 20 years on every issue?

Seems he's maturing in the right direction.

It does happen a lot over the years. You get taught about something and you change your views. You later get exposure to a good counterargument that reverses that change. You move your views farther right in knee jerk opposition to liberals moving their views farther left. You artificially move your views farther right to be in a better position when it comes time for a compromise agreement. Sometimes people undergo this process before they get into politics, sometimes it happens afterwards when they're flooded with new information from knowledgeable colleagues, lobbyists, religious/moral leaders, etc.

We don't want someone who constantly flip flops on issues, but we also want someone who's intellectually developed enough to be capable of personal growth.

maxsnafu
08-18-2012, 10:58
It does happen a lot over the years. You get taught about something and you change your views. You later get exposure to a good counterargument that reverses that change. You move your views farther right in knee jerk opposition to liberals moving their views farther left. You artificially move your views farther right to be in a better position when it comes time for a compromise agreement. Sometimes people undergo this process before they get into politics, sometimes it happens afterwards when they're flooded with new information from knowledgeable colleagues, lobbyists, religious/moral leaders, etc.

We don't want someone who constantly flip flops on issues, but we also want someone who's intellectually developed enough to be capable of personal growth.

Or, you can do what Nixon advocated, "Campaign to the Right and govern to the Center." In other words, lie to the electorate. Republicans have this down to a fine art. At least the Democrats are forthright about their socialist intentions.

GAFinch
08-18-2012, 11:45
Or, you can do what Nixon advocated, "Campaign to the Right and govern to the Center." In other words, lie to the electorate. Republicans have this down to a fine art. At least the Democrats are forthright about their socialist intentions.

People like Zero and Elizabeth Warren are running openly socialist campaigns this year, but in 2008 EL Presidente certainly ran as a moderate.

countrygun
08-18-2012, 12:25
Or, you can do what Nixon advocated, "Campaign to the Right and govern to the Center." In other words, lie to the electorate. Republicans have this down to a fine art. At least the Democrats are forthright about their socialist intentions.

Or you could run as a Democrat and promise to work to Unite the Country, and then have the most partisan, devisive, and unilateral White House in history.

FFR Spyder GT
08-18-2012, 15:02
Obama just bypassed the Constitution and issued an executive order giving amnesty to illegal migrants.


Romney/Ryan will abide by the Constitution.

Actually that was Reagan.

Romney belongs to a Religious Cult. Do you really think someone thats foolish enough to belong to a cult can be trusted to follow the Constitution?

I don't.

countrygun
08-18-2012, 15:07
Actually that was Reagan.

Romney belongs to a Religious Cult. Do you really think someone thats foolish enough to belong to a cult can be trusted to follow the Constitution?

I don't.



I had to preserve this absolutely perfect example of liberal bigotry.

BTW folks said the same thing about that historical darling of liberals, JFK. he was a Catholic.

The liberals called anyone mention his religion back then a bigot.

Flying-Dutchman
08-18-2012, 16:30
Actually that was Reagan.

During the Bush era, they tried to reform immigration and the American people gave a resounding NO!

The Republicans respected the will of the people.

Fast forward to Obama; again a large majority of Americans said NO to the Dream Act.

So Obama rammed it through via executive order like a dictator.

FFR Spyder GT
08-19-2012, 08:03
I had to preserve this absolutely perfect example of liberal bigotry.

BTW folks said the same thing about that historical darling of liberals, JFK. he was a Catholic.

The liberals called anyone mention his religion back then a bigot.

countrygun,

Like myself you are new to GT but if you will use the search function and look at post from 2008 and 2009 you will see that a large number of the GTPI posters were against Obama because they were "Conservative Evangelical Christians" but here in 2012 non of these same poster ever mention being a Christian.

To a "True Christian" the Mormon Religion is a Cult and is an abomination to God. It actually says this through out the Holy Bible.

So, how can anyone that is a Christian support a man that belongs to an Anti-Christian Religion Cult?

I cannot.

Back in the "Day" the Catholic Church (Ryan) called people like the Mormons (Romney) Heretics and would have burned them at the stake for heresy.

Do a little research on what the Mormons believe.

The "religion" was basically started so a bunch of old rich and powerful perverts could "handpick" 12 & 13yo girls for their 2nd and 3rd wifes.

Like I said, do a little research into the Mormon Cult. I just do not see how a sane and rational adult could possible fall for their BS.

Cavalry Doc
08-19-2012, 08:39
Spider, be honest, you're not "new". You don't have to admit it, but we all know your previous screen name. The patterns are too deeply ingrained.


To get back on track, the old saying remains true, if you aren't a liberal at 20, you have no heart, if you are not a conservative by 40, you have no brain.

Liberalism and naivety go hand in hand. The more people learn about the world, and people, the more they lean to the right. You can go to far with anything, so a little pragmatism helps a lot.

No one has been consistent in every issue over their lifetime. If you're opinions don't evolve a bit, you've no capacity to learn, or have no significant experiences.

Cambo
08-19-2012, 08:45
Or, you can do what Nixon advocated, "Campaign to the Right and govern to the Center." In other words, lie to the electorate. Republicans have this down to a fine art. At least the Democrats are forthright about their socialist intentions.

So go ahead and vote Democrat then.

Glock30Eric
08-19-2012, 09:56
Yup, you should probably stay home on election day.

That's disgrace thing to do for the America. I'm going to vote and it will not be Obama or Romney.


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Cavalry Doc
08-19-2012, 10:00
That's disgrace thing to do for the America. I'm going to vote and it will not be Obama or Romney.


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OK, same difference. Do whatever you want with your vote. You have completed naturalization, haven't you?? Don't vote if you haven't. We don't like non-citizens voting. It's a bad thing.

DOC44
08-19-2012, 10:05
That boy ain't from around here is he???

Doc44

Glock30Eric
08-19-2012, 10:30
OK, same difference. Do whatever you want with your vote. You have completed naturalization, haven't you?? Don't vote if you haven't. We don't like non-citizens voting. It's a bad thing.

What have made you think I wasn't naturalization in America? Be care whatever you say before you jump to the conclusion.

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HexHead
08-19-2012, 10:38
It doesn't matter how Ryan's position evolves or what it is. He's not running for president, and the Veep position "isn't worth a warm bucket of spit". He's not got g to be forming policy. He'll be lucky to have any input on it.

Cavalry Doc
08-19-2012, 11:20
What have made you think I wasn't naturalization in America? Be care whatever you say before you jump to the conclusion.

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You type with a heavy accent. :dunno:

JBnTX
08-19-2012, 11:25
You type with a heavy accent. :dunno:


Yes, he does....:thumbsup:

Cavalry Doc
08-19-2012, 11:32
Yes, he does....:thumbsup:

More than likely, it's done intentionally.

There was this other guy that used to post here before he had to go away, and he would pretend to be a russian. His points were always well made, but he typed in a stereotypical russian accent. I never bought it. Same here. But might as well ask.

SPIN2010
08-19-2012, 11:33
Maybe Big joe will show him the ropes of the old WH before he leaves. :dunno:

countrygun
08-19-2012, 12:00
countrygun,

Like myself you are new to GT but if you will use the search function and look at post from 2008 and 2009 you will see that a large number of the GTPI posters were against Obama because they were "Conservative Evangelical Christians" but here in 2012 non of these same poster ever mention being a Christian.

To a "True Christian" the Mormon Religion is a Cult and is an abomination to God. It actually says this through out the Holy Bible.

So, how can anyone that is a Christian support a man that belongs to an Anti-Christian Religion Cult?

I cannot.

Back in the "Day" the Catholic Church (Ryan) called people like the Mormons (Romney) Heretics and would have burned them at the stake for heresy.

Do a little research on what the Mormons believe.

The "religion" was basically started so a bunch of old rich and powerful perverts could "handpick" 12 & 13yo girls for their 2nd and 3rd wifes.

Like I said, do a little research into the Mormon Cult. I just do not see how a sane and rational adult could possible fall for their BS.


Hey, know-it-all, my wife is a Mormon.

Not thrilled about it. I am an atheist so maybe I have a better view of the whole picture than you do.


Twit.

GAFinch
08-19-2012, 12:40
countrygun,

Like myself you are new to GT but if you will use the search function and look at post from 2008 and 2009 you will see that a large number of the GTPI posters were against Obama because they were "Conservative Evangelical Christians" but here in 2012 non of these same poster ever mention being a Christian.

To a "True Christian" the Mormon Religion is a Cult and is an abomination to God. It actually says this through out the Holy Bible.

So, how can anyone that is a Christian support a man that belongs to an Anti-Christian Religion Cult?

I cannot.

Back in the "Day" the Catholic Church (Ryan) called people like the Mormons (Romney) Heretics and would have burned them at the stake for heresy.

Do a little research on what the Mormons believe.

The "religion" was basically started so a bunch of old rich and powerful perverts could "handpick" 12 & 13yo girls for their 2nd and 3rd wifes.

Like I said, do a little research into the Mormon Cult. I just do not see how a sane and rational adult could possible fall for their BS.

Better to vote for a morally upright person who honestly self-identifies as a Mormon than a constantly lying Marxist who pretends to be a Christian.

Flying-Dutchman
08-19-2012, 12:52
Do a little research on what the Mormons believe.

The "religion" was basically started so a bunch of old rich and powerful perverts could "handpick" 12 & 13yo girls for their 2nd and 3rd wifes.

Like I said, do a little research into the Mormon Cult. I just do not see how a sane and rational adult could possible fall for their BS.
All religions have evolved over the years. Mormons gave up polygamy over 100 years ago. Of course today 50% of Americans practice serial polygamy it they get married at all.

On a more recent note, Obama’s preacher of 20 years was the Reverend Wright (Black Liberation Theology AKA Communism) if we are talking religion.

Glock30Eric
08-19-2012, 13:18
Better to vote for a morally upright person who honestly self-identifies as a Mormon than a constantly lying Marxist who pretends to be a Christian.

Mormon is not a morally upright religion.

Anyway both candidates are crap. Nothing could find a good character in both candidates. Both candidates are sinners. Both candidates put people before God.

Ron Paul fears God and he doesn't want to force people into religion. He is almost perfect candidate to run that position; however too bad we aren't ready for him.

We need to pray for the revival in America. We need the holy spirit to drive us to fear the Lord (that is the God's revival, not a man's revival).

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countrygun
08-19-2012, 13:29
Better to vote for a morally upright person who honestly self-identifies as a Mormon than a constantly lying Marxist who pretends to be a Christian.

And if he is a Christian, his spiritual leader is Reverend Wright:wow::shocked:

THAT is better than an straight forward Mormon?????

Cavalry Doc
08-19-2012, 13:32
No chance we can get this thread back on track???

Immigrant-rights advocates, meanwhile, have a decidedly different take. They say Ryan's opposition to the DREAM Act — combined with his support for a 2005 bill that would have turned illegal immigrants from civil offenders to felons — is ample evidence that the Wisconsin Republican has abandoned the more lenient approach to illegal immigrants that marked his earlier years in Washington.