Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Missouri Republican claims 'legitimate rape' rarely results in pregnancy


Flintlocker
08-19-2012, 18:25
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/19/missouri-republican-claims-legitimate-rape-rarely-results-in-pregnancy/

"First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare," Akin said of rape-induced pregnancy in an interview with KTVI. A clip of the interview was posted online by the liberal super PAC American Bridge.
"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," Akin continued. He did not provide an explanation for what constituted "legitimate rape."


Where do they find these guys? Oh yeah, I know...

Cavalry Doc
08-19-2012, 18:52
If a rape victim reports for care, within a day of the rape, pregnancy IS rare.

I'm not too hot on abortion, but have been participating in emergency contraception for cases like this for over 20 years, way before "morning after options" were common knowledge.


So, he's right, sort of, pregnancy in those that report it, is rare.

countrygun
08-19-2012, 18:57
what doc said.

you lear a lot dating an ER nurse.

BTW can we find the old story about the Dem in congress that thought Guam might flip over?

ETA: what was I thinking? If we want Dem follies there is always Biden.

Guss
08-19-2012, 19:02
So nobody has a scientific explanation for his statement that "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

The education system has failed him. I wonder if he has any daughters who can set him straight?

countrygun
08-19-2012, 19:07
So nobody has a scientific explanation for his statement that "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

The education system has failed him. I wonder if he has any daughters who can set him straight?

I am not going to say with any certainty that the man isn't a fool, but on the other hand, I am not going to say that he is unaware of some things that have been alluded to in this thread and simply doesn't want to open that discussion. It is possible.

Snowman92D
08-19-2012, 19:08
Female bodies are capable of some unusual things. How else do you 'splain the stains on a blue dress in the Oval Office? :whistling:

ChuteTheMall
08-19-2012, 19:10
It's true, because most rapes actually do not result in pregnancy.

So there.

:tongueout:

ChuteTheMall
08-19-2012, 19:11
Female bodies are capable of some unusual things. How else do you 'splain the stains on a blue dress in the Oval Office? :whistling:

:puking:

Cavalry Doc
08-19-2012, 19:12
So nobody has a scientific explanation for his statement that "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

The education system has failed him. I wonder if he has any daughters who can set him straight?

Well, indirectly, he is correct. She can call 911, and/or get to an emergency room soon after, to have a pretty darn good chance of "shutting that whole thing down".

Other than stating the obvious, I'm not defending the politicians grounds for his position at all. I can only tell you about my own experiences in the field.

Snowman92D
08-19-2012, 19:19
:puking:

I'm with ya on that, Chute. I keep thinking where do they find these guys? Oh, yeah, I know...

stormspotter
08-19-2012, 19:21
Now you know why McCaskill ran ads supporting Akin in the Republican primary.

I would bet that many Democrats in Kansas City and St. Louis switched and voted Republican just to give the "homely one" a better chance in November.

We still have to hold our nose and vote for him anyway.

Guss
08-19-2012, 19:30
He now says he misspoke. But he still wants the rape victim to suffer the consequences of pregnancy and birth.

QNman
08-19-2012, 21:58
Now you know why McCaskill ran ads supporting Akin in the Republican primary.

I would bet that many Democrats in Kansas City and St. Louis switched and voted Republican just to give the "homely one" a better chance in November.

We still have to hold our nose and vote for him anyway.

Don't blame me... I voted for Brunner.

And Akin is STILL 20-times better than Claire-bear.

Guss
08-19-2012, 22:42
Romney and Ryan are trying to distance themselves from the ignoramus:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/19/romney-and-ryan-disagree-with-akin-rape-remark-says-campaign/

Gunnut 45/454
08-20-2012, 00:22
Guss
"He now says he misspoke. But he still wants the rape victim to suffer the consequences of pregnancy and birth"

Well if she's a good LIBERAL GIRL (like Shandra Fluk) she'd already be on birth control right? Or she would have a big supply of the Morning after pill so it (supplied by the Gov,) shouldn't be a problem right?:rofl: You liberals kill me!:rofl::supergrin::rofl:

hogship
08-20-2012, 01:04
.



Here is a possible explanation of what was meant by "legitimate rape":

Akin might have been referring to a pregnancy where rape didn't actually happen, but it is claimed for the purposes of obtaining a medically induced abortion.

This nonsense about the female body shutting down may have been Akin's way of driving the point that a rape may not have occurred. If so, it only served to confuse the issue for anyone who didn't understand that he was actually referring to a pregnancy that wasn't the result of rape.

I would suspect there is seldom any significant time lapse between actual cases of rape, and seeking medical treatment. I would also suspect that consensual sex that results in pregnancy, but claimed as the result of a rape, may quite often have some amount of time lapse prior to seeking medical treatment.

When seen in this way.........all this makes perfect sense.



ooc

Guss
08-20-2012, 03:56
.


...

I would suspect there is seldom any significant time lapse between actual cases of rape, and seeking medical treatment...
Unless the victim picks a Republican-leaning hospital
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/138415/rape_victim_turned_away_by?next=51

hogfish
08-20-2012, 04:49
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/19/missouri-republican-claims-legitimate-rape-rarely-results-in-pregnancy/



Where do they find these guys? Oh yeah, I know...

I just saw him on TV. I think he meant what he said about a woman's body and all. He has the right to object to abortion, but wonder how many people believe the line about the woman's body.

Why are some trying to explain away his statement. :faint:

Good to hear Romney/Ryan's clear response.

Cavalry Doc
08-20-2012, 05:29
I just saw him on TV. I think he meant what he said about a woman's body and all. He has the right to object to abortion, but wonder how many people believe the line about the woman's body.

Why are some trying to explain away his statement. :faint:

Good to hear Romney/Ryan's clear response.

If he has doubled down on that, then he is grossly misinformed. The only problem with rape being the only way to get an abortion, all of a sudden, you have an epidemic of rapes. It's not a large step for a woman concerned about her convenience over the next 18 years, to toss out the baby daddy along with the baby, and claim rape.

Which is one of the reasons I'm not for banning abortions, but I think that the mother & father should both have some input, and the cost paid should not include one dime of public money or subsidy.

barbedwiresmile
08-20-2012, 05:36
It's ok. He's red team.

Kingarthurhk
08-20-2012, 05:40
"First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare," Akin said of rape-induced pregnancy in an interview with KTVI. A clip of the interview was posted online by the liberal super PAC American Bridge.
"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," Akin continued. He did not provide an explanation for what constituted "legitimate rape."

If this is the doctor's perspective, maybe I should avoid them.

Family Guy - Prostate Exam - YouTube

callihan_44
08-20-2012, 05:58
wow, the world is burning to the ground and we're worried about this? Well then by all means re-elect claire, she will be more than happy to "forget" to pay property taxes and sign in more government programs to further bankrupt the country :upeyes:

m51
08-20-2012, 07:18
wow, the world is burning to the ground and we're worried about this? Well then by all means re-elect claire, she will be more than happy to "forget" to pay property taxes and sign in more government programs to further bankrupt the country :upeyes:

Yes we are worried about this, the senate majority is on the line. I keep saying, if a candidate is too far left or right, they won't win the election. Why is it so hard for people to get that?

callihan_44
08-20-2012, 07:26
Yes we are worried about this, the senate majority is on the line. I keep saying, if a candidate is too far left or right, they won't win the election. Why is it so hard for people to get that?

I didnt realize abortion was going to make or break the country :dunno::upeyes:

maxsnafu
08-20-2012, 07:49
If a rape victim reports for care, within a day of the rape, pregnancy IS rare.

I'm not too hot on abortion, but have been participating in emergency contraception for cases like this for over 20 years, way before "morning after options" were common knowledge.


So, he's right, sort of, pregnancy in those that report it, is rare.

You're correct but you're missing Flintlocker's point: That's a truth that we're not supposed to mention. The fact that what you said is true is irrelevant. Think of it as a "hate fact." This attitude worked very well in the Soviet Union. No reason why it shouldn't work here too.

whoflungdo
08-20-2012, 07:51
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/19/missouri-republican-claims-legitimate-rape-rarely-results-in-pregnancy/



Where do they find these guys? Oh yeah, I know...


It's overcast and drizzling here today. Still rode the bike. The sun is supposed to be out and burn off the clouds..:wavey:

m51
08-20-2012, 08:00
I didnt realize abortion was going to make or break the country :dunno::upeyes:

We are in a highly charged election season, any statement like this fool used will be pounced on and used over and over. Paul Ryan sponsored a bill on birth control with this guy, do you think the Obama camp will use that? Yes it will hurt this fool and many more.

Paul7
08-20-2012, 08:03
And very, very few abortions are to end a rape.

Captain Caveman
08-20-2012, 08:30
Until this guy is personally invested with someone who has had the horrific crime committed against them, like I am, then he has NO business commenting. He didn't "misspeak". He said EXACTLY what he thought and what he wanted everyone else to think.

HOW DARE YOU SIR!!! HOW DARE YOU TRY TO INFLECT YOU MISGUIDED SENSE OF RELIGIOUS RIGHT ON THE VICTIMS OF THIS HORRIFIC CRIME!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!

ChuteTheMall
08-20-2012, 08:39
What percentage of "legitimate rapes" actually result in pregnancy?

Is it, or is it not, statistically rare?

:dunno:

Dennisr1977
08-20-2012, 08:46
What percentage of "legitimate rapes" actually result in pregnancy?

Is it, or is it not, statistically rare?

:dunno:

He isn't saying its statistically rare, he's claiming a woman's body knows when it's being raped and shuts down. The guy is pure idiot.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Cavalry Doc
08-20-2012, 08:50
What percentage of "legitimate rapes" actually result in pregnancy?

Is it, or is it not, statistically rare?

:dunno:

Here's what I could find with a quick search:

RESULTS: The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.

CONCLUSIONS: Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence. As we address the epidemic of unintended pregnancies in the United States, greater attention and effort should be aimed at preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from sexual victimization.

Prevention still looks like the best route to go here.

Captain Caveman
08-20-2012, 08:51
What percentage of "legitimate rapes" actually result in pregnancy?

Is it, or is it not, statistically rare?

:dunno:


Doesn't matter. You will punish both the legitimate and illegitimate. In the cases of rape or incest, there can be no question.

Cavalry Doc
08-20-2012, 08:57
He isn't saying its statistically rare, he's claiming a woman's body knows when it's being raped and shuts down. The guy is pure idiot.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Being wrong on one thing, even VERY WRONG, doesn't make him an idiot. Now, if he is informed of the error by subject matter experts and still chooses to believe this, then he might actually be an idiot.

ChuteTheMall
08-20-2012, 09:07
.......

Dennisr1977
08-20-2012, 09:07
Being wrong on one thing, even VERY WRONG, doesn't make him an idiot. Now, if he is informed of the error by subject matter experts and still chooses to believe this, then he might actually be an idiot.


What makes him an idiot, is not knowing what he's talking about before going into an interview. I'm sure he's been "informed" on his opinion before. You don't just come to that conclusion out of the blue. Besides, if you lack enough common sense to believe something so appalling, you're an idiot.



Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Captain Caveman
08-20-2012, 09:10
OK. Now that I've calmed down some, I can speak without the fire coming out of my nose.


We have it all backwards. From the earliest age, we train girls to be careful where they go and who they are with. This is important. But, what we should be doing is training the boys. They need to know that just because a girl or woman is there. Just because she is dressed a certain way. Or just because she is drinking, DOES NOT give a green light. Unwanted and non-concessional is rape. If the woman can not connect, it is rape. And they need to be told that if you do commit this crime, and are caught, that they will face VERY severe consequences.

Cavalry Doc
08-20-2012, 09:16
What makes him an idiot, is not knowing what he's talking about before going into an interview. I'm sure he's been "informed" on his opinion before. You don't just come to that conclusion out of the blue. Besides, if you lack enough common sense to believe something so appalling, you're an idiot.



Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Could have heard that from an idiot he placed too much faith in. It's surprising how much people think they know without any first hand experience.

Gunhaver
08-20-2012, 10:30
http://io9.com/5936157/the-real-science-behind-todd-akins-claim-that-victims-of-legitimate-rape-dont-get-pregnant

FFR Spyder GT
08-20-2012, 11:21
"Legitimate rape"?

Is that the opposite of "illegitimate rape"?

Spyder

Paul7
08-20-2012, 14:33
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/19/missouri-republican-claims-legitimate-rape-rarely-results-in-pregnancy/



Where do they find these guys? Oh yeah, I know...

I listened to that sound clip several times, and took it to mean in a 'real' rape, not a case involving consensual sex where the lady later claims rape.

I agree with his point that the rapist should be punished, not the innocent child.

Sharkey
08-20-2012, 14:42
Check the facts and you will see Akin is pretty correct in his statement. Now perhaps he could have phrased it better but for all the outcrys on the left, they sure are silent when Barrack or Joe open their trap and stick their feet in.

jakebrake
08-20-2012, 15:24
It's overcast and drizzling here today. Still rode the bike. The sun is supposed to be out and burn off the clouds..:wavey:

took mine out last night, must've picked up a nail in my back tire. and those dunlops aren't cheap. that really hacked me off.

series1811
08-20-2012, 17:21
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/19/missouri-republican-claims-legitimate-rape-rarely-results-in-pregnancy/



Where do they find these guys? Oh yeah, I know...

Based on the year and a half I spent investigating sex crimes, I would say he is pretty much correct.

Was your experience with dealing with rapes different?

hogship
08-20-2012, 17:34
OK. Now that I've calmed down some, I can speak without the fire coming out of my nose.


We have it all backwards. From the earliest age, we train girls to be careful where they go and who they are with. This is important. But, what we should be doing is training the boys. They need to know that just because a girl or woman is there. Just because she is dressed a certain way. Or just because she is drinking, DOES NOT give a green light. Unwanted and non-concessional is rape. If the woman can not connect, it is rape. And they need to be told that if you do commit this crime, and are caught, that they will face VERY severe consequences.

You would be looking long and hard to find one man who is guilty of rape, who didn't know it was wrong......and..... criminal.

These people have been told......but, choose to do it anyway.:steamed:

ooc

hogfish
08-20-2012, 17:36
If he has doubled down on that, then he is grossly misinformed. The only problem with rape being the only way to get an abortion, all of a sudden, you have an epidemic of rapes. It's not a large step for a woman concerned about her convenience over the next 18 years, to toss out the baby daddy along with the baby, and claim rape.

Which is one of the reasons I'm not for banning abortions, but I think that the mother & father should both have some input, and the cost paid should not include one dime of public money or subsidy.

You're right, and you're right. :wavey:

I don't know about your other posts trying to rationalize his comment.

hogship
08-20-2012, 17:54
I was listening to Hannity this afternoon at work......Todd Akin was being interviewed. He still didn't explain what he meant by "legitimate rape", but I still believe it was probably to separate rape from fraudulently claiming a rape occurred that didn't happen.........

He was tripping all over himself apologizing for the comment. If he did mean what I think he meant (see post #16), there would be no reason to apologize for it......he made things worse for himself by pandering to the media.

.......Now, the comment about women's bodies shutting down and preventing the rape is another issue entirely.........It was stupid, but he shouldn't apologize for that either. What he should do, is confirm he was speaking what he thought was true, but is now informed of his misinformed belief......and, he stands corrected.

If he does believe rape is not a good enough reason to terminate, or prevent a pregnancy, I will disagree with him on this point. Most people who are "pro-life", agree on this, and it's the extreme pro-life viewpoint that holds a belief that abortion is not justified under any circumstances.

ooc

Gundude
08-20-2012, 17:58
I agree with his point that the rapist should be punished, not the innocent child.What about the victim? Does she factor into the equation at all? Is forcing her to bear the child of the man who forced himself upon her a reasonable thing to do to her?

countrygun
08-20-2012, 18:02
I think it is even more interseting that Flintlicker thinks this is such a major news story that he had to keep it up front with two threads,

given he is a Republican from Missouri and not a Democrat from the White House, a statement like this is small beans.

Let's keep those cards and letters about Obama/Biden gaffes coming in folks.

hogship
08-20-2012, 18:04
You're right, and you're right. :wavey:

I don't know about your other posts trying to rationalize his comment.

Yes, Cavalry Doc is correct. If abortion were outlawed, there would be an epidemic of rape claims.

I am "pro life", but believe certain circumstances would justify abortion.......when it directly effects me, and my family.

I'm also VERY VERY pro choice! :shocked:

I believe this is a "freedom" issue, and everyone has the right to decide these things for themselves. (There are limitations here, too........late term abortions should be illegal. If the decision can't be made early on, that's just too damn bad! :steamed:)

ooc

G17Jake
08-20-2012, 18:05
So nobody has a scientific explanation for his statement that "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

The education system has failed him. I wonder if he has any daughters who can set him straight?

One theory is that during the time of stress the body produces different chemicals, hormones, whatever that shuts down the reproductive system, digestion, and some other unnecessary functions and prepares the body for flight.

Kingarthurhk
08-20-2012, 18:07
He is probably gay as all out doors, because anyone who has any sense about the female body wouldn't say such retarded things.

QNman
08-20-2012, 18:52
If he has doubled down on that, then he is grossly misinformed. The only problem with rape being the only way to get an abortion, all of a sudden, you have an epidemic of rapes. It's not a large step for a woman concerned about her convenience over the next 18 years, to toss out the baby daddy along with the baby, and claim rape.

Which is one of the reasons I'm not for banning abortions, but I think that the mother & father should both have some input, and the cost paid should not include one dime of public money or subsidy.

Agree with all the above.

Now the fact that Akin is rated an A by the NRA, while McCaskill receives and F, in addition to her Obama-suppository-syndrome, mean anything here? Or is it "lily white and perfect or bust" again?

QNman
08-20-2012, 18:54
wow, the world is burning to the ground and we're worried about this? Well then by all means re-elect claire, she will be more than happy to "forget" to pay property taxes and sign in more government programs to further bankrupt the country :upeyes:

This.

Akin could proclaim babies from a stork, and I'd STILL vote for him over Claire. She really is "that bad".

Paul7
08-20-2012, 18:58
What about the victim? Does she factor into the equation at all? Is forcing her to bear the child of the man who forced himself upon her a reasonable thing to do to her?

Yes, killing the child is not the answer. Two crimes don't make a right.

fortyofforty
08-20-2012, 18:59
Perhaps somebody should interview Bill Clinton on this, seeing he's an expert on rape. I'd be curious as to his perspective.

fortyofforty
08-20-2012, 19:07
One theory is that during the time of stress the body produces different chemicals, hormones, whatever that shuts down the reproductive system, digestion, and some other unnecessary functions and prepares the body for flight.

Since a female orgasm produces motions that draw semen into the uterus aiding fertilization (http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-09/what-point-female-orgasm), perhaps it's not completely far-fetched.

FLIPPER 348
08-20-2012, 19:07
I think it is even more interseting that Flintlicker thinks this is such a major news story that he had to keep it up front with two threads,




Imagine how big of a story it would be here if a Democrat made such a moronic and ignorant statement.

fortyofforty
08-20-2012, 19:17
Imagine how big of a story it would be here if a Democrat made such a moronic and ignorant statement.

They'd probably put y'all back in chains.

JFrame
08-20-2012, 19:17
Imagine how big of a story it would be here if a Democrat made such a moronic and ignorant statement.


It would probably get lost in all the other moronic and ignorant statements Democrats make...


.

jakebrake
08-20-2012, 19:20
They'd probably put y'all back in chains.

in one of 57 states?

Jonesee
08-20-2012, 19:32
Since a female orgasm produces motions that draw semen into the uterus aiding fertilization (http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-09/what-point-female-orgasm), perhaps it's not completely far-fetched.


There are a lot of frustrated wives/moms that don't have a satisfying sex life and don't reach orgasm. They are mothers just the same.

I suggest you quit reaching for conclusions and study up on biology.

BassCatcher
08-20-2012, 19:41
Those who claim Todd Akin is an idiot are spot on.

Control of the Senate may very well come down to who wins the Missouri seat. McCaskill was very vulnerable and if Akin stays in the race that may not be the case.

The race here is going to be decided by the independents who, at least here in Missouri, the majority are women. I have been watching the local news and you would not believe the outrage expressed by women that would otherwise have voted the Republican candidate. Not any more, from what I can see at least. Even my wife said she would not vote for him and she has voted republican since the 70's.

Those claiming that he may be statistically correct are missing the point. The vote will come down to perception and right now Akin is tanking big time here in Missouri. Women are mad, plain and simple...and I agree with them.

Also, I actually heard McCaskill defend Akin tonight during an interview. Think about that. What does that tell you? She wants to run against him now. She sees a light at the end of the tunnel and it just might get her re-elected.

He needs to bail out before 5 pm tomorrow.

QNman
08-20-2012, 21:39
Imagine how big of a story it would be here if a Democrat made such a moronic and ignorant statement.

Imagine how small a deal would be in the MSM if a democrat made such a moronic and ignorant statement. We'd have doctors from the Mayo clinic proclaiming how correct they were.

QNman
08-20-2012, 21:41
Those who claim Todd Akin is an idiot are spot on.

Control of the Senate may very well come down to who wins the Missouri seat. McCaskill was very vulnerable and if Akin stays in the race that may not be the case.

The race here is going to be decided by the independents who, at least here in Missouri, the majority are women. I have been watching the local news and you would not believe the outrage expressed by women that would otherwise have voted the Republican candidate. Not any more, from what I can see at least. Even my wife said she would not vote for him and she has voted republican since the 70's.

Those claiming that he may be statistically correct are missing the point. The vote will come down to perception and right now Akin is tanking big time here in Missouri. Women are mad, plain and simple...and I agree with them.

Also, I actually heard McCaskill defend Akin tonight during an interview. Think about that. What does that tell you? She wants to run against him now. She sees a light at the end of the tunnel and it just might get her re-elected.

He needs to bail out before 5 pm tomorrow.

Yup..

4TS&W
08-20-2012, 21:43
But is it too late to replace him with an electable candidate?

QNman
08-20-2012, 21:45
But is it too late to replace him with an electable candidate?

Dunno. Hope not. Brunner could possibly oust him.

2bgop
08-20-2012, 22:14
There is a reason McCaskill spent 2.5 million on Akin's behalf, this is it. He simply can not shut the f up.

All he had to do was not talk for 3 months and he would have been a US Senator, but he has to start running his crazy mouth. Now the race is either lost or will cost many millions more to win. He should drop out now and let someone who deserves the seat beat her.

douggmc
08-20-2012, 23:56
...
Prevention still looks like the best route to go here.

Am I interpreting your statement correctly? Are you saying that a woman should take birth control as a "preventative step" in case she is raped?

douggmc
08-20-2012, 23:58
And very, very few abortions are to end a rape.

How and why is the quantity of these types of abortions relevant?

douggmc
08-21-2012, 00:08
Check the facts and you will see Akin is pretty correct in his statement. Now perhaps he could have phrased it better but for all the outcrys on the left, they sure are silent when Barrack or Joe open their trap and stick their feet in.

"Pretty correct"? Is that a statistical term taught in the same Institute of Idiot Studies that Akin attended?

Seriously though ... Whether he is "pretty correct" or not ... Is not the point. Are the numbers of cases really relevant assuming we all can agree that rape induced pregnancy can and does occur?

mikep
08-21-2012, 06:08
One theory is that during the time of stress the body produces different chemicals, hormones, whatever that shuts down the reproductive system, digestion, and some other unnecessary functions and prepares the body for flight.

Yep, that is the crazy, unfounded theory(that the trauma protects against pregnancy) that just helps the D narrative that R men are making decisions on behalf of women with no scientific basis.

BassCatcher
08-21-2012, 06:20
But is it too late to replace him with an electable candidate?

Not at all. Either Bruner or Steelman can beat McCaskill.

There is a reason McCaskill spent 2.5 million on Akin's behalf, this is it. He simply can not shut the f up.

All he had to do was not talk for 3 months and he would have been a US Senator, but he has to start running his crazy mouth. Now the race is either lost or will cost many millions more to win. He should drop out now and let someone who deserves the seat beat her.

Exactly. This guy has said more stupid things than Biden and Reid added together. And, that is a lot of stupid.

hogfish
08-21-2012, 07:07
I just saw him on TV. I think he meant what he said about a woman's body and all. He has the right to object to abortion, but wonder how many people believe the line about the woman's body.

Why are some trying to explain away his statement. :faint:

Good to hear Romney/Ryan's clear response.

I'm quoting myself because I just heard him say that women "can" become pregnant as a result of rape.

:eyebrow:

Sharkey
08-21-2012, 07:59
"Pretty correct"? Is that a statistical term taught in the same Institute of Idiot Studies that Akin attended?

Seriously though ... Whether he is "pretty correct" or not ... Is not the point. Are the numbers of cases really relevant assuming we all can agree that rape induced pregnancy can and does occur?

What is relevant than? The Q is how many women who are raped get pregnant? The A is: not many. That seems pretty correct to me. Legitimate was a poor choice of words but I have definitely worked some sexual assault cases that weren't legitimate sexual assaults.

What exactly are your studies on sexual assaults? I've attended many idiot classes though Akin wasn't in any of them.

callihan_44
08-21-2012, 09:53
whatever happens it needs to happen TODAY.. however he is still leading in the polls ive seen....if he stays he needs to run endless cycles of claire supporting everything obama has done especially healthcare. Bring up her tax problems on her airplane etc...show her town hall meetings that she had getting her ass handed to her.

Goaltender66
08-21-2012, 09:56
whatever happens it needs to happen TODAY.. however he is still leading in the polls ive seen....if he stays he needs to run endless cycles of claire supporting everything obama has done especially healthcare. Bring up her tax problems on her airplane etc...show her town hall meetings that she had getting her ass handed to her.

He's leading +1 in a PPP poll that's using a +9 R sample.

Todd Akin needs to leave the race. Today.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 10:16
Am I interpreting your statement correctly? Are you saying that a woman should take birth control as a "preventative step" in case she is raped?Women can take birth control after intercourse to prevent pregnancy, as long as it's taken soon enough after.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 10:24
Yes, killing the child is not the answer. Two crimes don't make a right.What is the answer then? If you say that forcing a woman to bear a child she had no choice in conceiving is the answer, you can see why abortion is a losing issue for Republicans.

series1811
08-21-2012, 10:26
There are some things, rape, social security, and many racial issues, where the truth can get you in more trouble than a lie.

This guy was stupid to say it out loud, but statisticly, he's right.

But, poltical correctness rules over being right in a lot of issues and this is definitely one of them.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 10:36
This guy was stupid to say it out loud, but statisticly, he's right.Statistically, you don't need a gun to defend yourself.

series1811
08-21-2012, 10:39
Statistically, you don't need a gun to defend yourself.

I would agree with that.

If I had a choice between having training, experience, and situational awareness, and no gun, or a gun with no training, no experience, and no situational awareness, and was going to be in a self defense situation, I would take the training, experience and situational awareness in a second. A gun is one way to defend yourself. There are many others.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 10:41
I would agree with that.

If I had a choice between having training, experience, and situational awareness, and no gun, or a gun with no training, no experience, and no situational awareness, and was going to be in a self defense situation, I would take the training and situational awareness in a second. A gun is one way to defend yourself. There are many others.The point being, whether he was statistically right or not, it's not a good reason to oppose the option of abortion in the case of rape.

douggmc
08-21-2012, 11:41
What is relevant than? The Q is how many women who are raped get pregnant? The A is: not many. That seems pretty correct to me. Legitimate was a poor choice of words but I have definitely worked some sexual assault cases that weren't legitimate sexual assaults.

What exactly are your studies on sexual assaults? I've attended many idiot classes though Akin wasn't in any of them.

What IS relevant is his and other politicians' positions on abortion and how they would legislate.

QNman
08-21-2012, 11:44
He has four hours to quit... then it takes a judge to remove his name from the ballot. I don't hold out much hope he'll do that, but if he does, expect it around 4:55 CDT.

ChuteTheMall
08-21-2012, 11:55
Since we need that seat more than we need him, he needs to get the macaca out of there.

douggmc
08-21-2012, 11:55
Women can take birth control after intercourse to prevent pregnancy, as long as it's taken soon enough after.

I know. The morning after pill prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. Which in the eyes of the "life begins at conception" folks is abortion. It is different from other forms of birth control that prevents fertilization to begin with (chemically or physically).

But my question to Calvary Doc was whether he was insinuating that a woman should take "the pill" (i.e., daily pill or periodic injection type or patch) SOLELY as a precaution against rape induced pregnancy. Which I think is ridiculous to say/suggest.

series1811
08-21-2012, 14:02
The point being, whether he was statistically right or not, it's not a good reason to oppose the option of abortion in the case of rape.

Is that really the point?

It sounds like the point is he said something that while factually correct, was politically incorrect, and is getting roasted for it.

Pretty normal these days, but maybe the real point is that we are used to that happening to people who aren't PC.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 14:08
I know. The morning after pill prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. Which in the eyes of the "life begins at conception" folks is abortion. It is different from other forms of birth control that prevents fertilization to begin with (chemically or physically).

But my question to Calvary Doc was whether he was insinuating that a woman should take "the pill" (i.e., daily pill or periodic injection type or patch) SOLELY as a precaution against rape induced pregnancy. Which I think is ridiculous to say/suggest.Well I can't speak for him, obviously, but I assumed from his earlier post (#9) that he was talking about prevention by way of the morning-after pill.

I get that it's still "abortion" instead of "prevention" in the eyes of the overly-devout, but that's fortunately a position that is frowned upon in real-world politics.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 14:10
Is that really the point?

It sounds like the point is he said something that while factually correct, was politically incorrect, and is getting roasted for it.Yes, it is really the point. His statement was in response to a question about abortion in the case of rape, and his response was his "reasoning" for opposing it. It wasn't a medical roundtable on the workings of the female reproductive system.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 16:18
He's leading +1 in a PPP poll that's using a +9 R sample.

Todd Akin needs to leave the race. Today.5 o'clock has come and gone in Missouri. Any news?

Goaltender66
08-21-2012, 16:28
5 o'clock has come and gone in Missouri. Any news?

Last I heard (on the Hannity) show at 4:35 est, he isn't dropping out and he won't entertain the thought. Dude has some serious cognitive dissonance there.

I will say this...after hearing him talk, it is little wonder the Dems put a million bucks into his primary campaign.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 16:30
Here we go:
ST. LOUIS ó A defiant Rep. Todd Akin dismissed pleas from top Republicans to abandon his besieged Senate campaign Tuesday, saying party leaders including presumptive presidential nominee Mitt Romney were overreacting to his comments that women's bodies can prevent pregnancies in cases of "legitimate rape."

Akin, who has been frantically trying to salvage his once-promising bid against incumbent Democrat Claire McCaskill, said the uproar surrounding the remarks was out of proportion with his mistake Ė misspeaking "one word in one sentence on one day."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/todd-akin-decision_n_1819079.html
He still thinks it's the word "legitimate" that was the entire problem!

Goaltender66
08-21-2012, 16:35
Here we go:

He still thinks it's the word "legitimate" that was the entire problem!

Todd Akin is the luckiest break Axelrod and Obama have had since Jeri Ryan refused that three-way.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 16:36
I will say this...after hearing him talk, it is little wonder the Dems put a million bucks into his primary campaign.It's the Harry Reid / Sharron Angle thing all over again. Democrats have discovered that beating Republicans is as easy as getting them to voice their true opinions. How many times is abortion going to cost Republicans the Senate?

Jonesee
08-21-2012, 16:39
There are some things, rape, social security, and many racial issues, where the truth can get you in more trouble than a lie.

This guy was stupid to say it out loud, but statisticly, he's right.

But, poltical correctness rules over being right in a lot of issues and this is definitely one of them.


That is twice you have put rape in the same category are Social Security and Race. If you are that confused I hope you didn't have daughters or raised sons.


And statisitucally he is not right. 32,0000 women get pregnant from rape every year.

Cite your source or quit saying this untruth.
Not perception or rationalization, but medical evidence.

countrygun
08-21-2012, 16:39
I know. The morning after pill prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. Which in the eyes of the "life begins at conception" folks is abortion. It is different from other forms of birth control that prevents fertilization to begin with (chemically or physically).

But my question to Calvary Doc was whether he was insinuating that a woman should take "the pill" (i.e., daily pill or periodic injection type or patch) SOLELY as a precaution against rape induced pregnancy. Which I think is ridiculous to say/suggest.


Why? That is "why are you asking?". Doc was replying to a specific situation from medical experience relative to the specific topic of the thread.

What posses you to try and expand that into his personal view on the political/legal/moral issue? I think if you would read his other posts you might be able to get a feeling for his position, and since it has no bearing on the thread, be satisfied with that.

An experienced professional shares information, and someone tries to spin it into a bigger debate:upeyes:

JFrame
08-21-2012, 16:42
Todd Akin is the luckiest break Axelrod and Obama have had since Jeri Ryan refused that three-way.


Is there something I don't know about...? :dunno:


.

countrygun
08-21-2012, 16:45
It's the Harry Reid / Sharron Angle thing all over again. Democrats have discovered that beating Republicans is as easy as getting them to voice their true opinions. How many times is abortion going to cost Republicans the Senate?


You mean like when Biden or Obama go off the teleprompter or get near a "hot" mic ?

Goaltender66
08-21-2012, 16:48
Is there something I don't know about...? :dunno:


.

:supergrin:

Jeri Ryan used to be married to Jack Ryan, who was a very strong contender for the US Senate seat vacated after Peter Fitzgerald retired.

Alas, shortly after the primary supposedly sealed divorce documents were released showing Jack Ryan tried to get his wife to participate in a three way at a rather seedy club. The firestorm meant Ryan had to drop out of the race.

The year: 2004

Ryan's replacement: Alan Keyes.

The winner of that race : Barack Obama.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 16:50
You mean like when Biden or Obama go off the teleprompter or get near a "hot" mic ?If Republicans could make them pay dearly for it, then yeah, it'd be like that. So far it seems Democrats have discovered a formula for laughing things off in a way Republicans can't. Then again, it's pretty hard to laugh off rape. Maybe Republicans should choose lighter topics for their gaffes, like slavery or submissiveness to foreign powers.

countrygun
08-21-2012, 16:53
If Republicans could make them pay dearly for it, then yeah, it'd be like that. So far it seems Democrats have discovered a formula for laughing things off in a way Republicans can't. Then again, it's pretty hard to laugh off rape. Maybe Republicans should choose lighter topics for their gaffes, like slavery or submissiveness to foreign powers.


The worst Reagan ever did was "We have declared the Soviet Union to be illegal............"

All it did was scaare the Russians and pucker the butts of mamby-pamby's in this Country.

JFrame
08-21-2012, 16:53
:supergrin:

Jeri Ryan used to be married to Jack Ryan, who was a very strong contender for the US Senate seat vacated after Peter Fitzgerald retired.

Alas, shortly after the primary supposedly sealed divorce documents were released showing Jack Ryan tried to get his wife to participate in a three way at a rather seedy club. The firestorm meant Ryan had to drop out of the race.

The year: 2004

Ryan's replacement: Alan Keyes.

The winner of that race : Barack Obama.


Ah -- thank you -- now I remember that incident.

My mind just sort of short-circuited when I heard the name "Jeri Ryan"... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/blush.gif


.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 16:53
:supergrin:

Jeri Ryan used to be married to Jack Ryan, who was a very strong contender for the US Senate seat vacated after Peter Fitzgerald retired.

Alas, shortly after the primary supposedly sealed divorce documents were released showing Jack Ryan tried to get his wife to participate in a three way at a rather seedy club. The firestorm meant Ryan had to drop out of the race.

The year: 2004

Ryan's replacement: Alan Keyes.

The winner of that race : Barack Obama.So basically, a woman's refusal to participate in a three way destroyed the country. Crazy thing that butterfly effect. Make sure your wives and girlfriends learn from this tragedy... :supergrin:

ChuteTheMall
08-21-2012, 17:04
Ironically, that third person would have been Alan Keyes.:whistling:

hogship
08-21-2012, 17:13
I haven't heard anything........but, let's just assume Akin is staying in.

The Democrats will try their best to destroy him, but I think he can still become a senator, regardless.

Will the voters support him, even though he has some social ideas that are controversial? I think they will have no choice. I would support him over the alternative.......even though I have some basic disagreement with his beliefs that abortion can never be an option.......(I will be voting for Romney, even though he was my last choice of GOP candidates..........because the alternative is just to destructive to our country to even consider anything else.)

Can the Democrats paint all Republicans with Akin's beliefs and remarks? They will try, but that's a hard sell, too.

There are many public figures that are calling for Akin to back out.......but, they WILL support his candidacy, over CM any day, and all day. One thing that I've not heard anywhere, is that I suspect those who are calling for Akin to back out, are doing it for political posturing......not that they wouldn't support him winning a Senate seat. It's all to separate themselves from his remarks......put, a protective wall between themselves and the crazy remarks, so to speak.

:wavey:

ooc

douggmc
08-21-2012, 17:24
Why? That is "why are you asking?". Doc was replying to a specific situation from medical experience relative to the specific topic of the thread.

What posses you to try and expand that into his personal view on the political/legal/moral issue? I think if you would read his other posts you might be able to get a feeling for his position, and since it has no bearing on the thread, be satisfied with that.

An experienced professional shares information, and someone tries to spin it into a bigger debate:upeyes:

Why I am responding to you ... I'm not quite sure ... but anyway:

You are way off on your analysis of my posts / question and are reading into it what you want. I suggest YOU read MY posts (and specifically the one I addressed to Cal Doc). My question was to him about what he meant by prevention. Period.

Gundude
08-21-2012, 17:36
I haven't heard anything........but, let's just assume Akin is staying in.

The Democrats will try their best to destroy him, but I think he can still become a senator, regardless.

Will the voters support him, even though he has some social ideas that are controversial? I think they will have no choice. I would support him over the alternative.......even though I have some basic disagreement with his beliefs that abortion can never be an option.......Don't underestimate the negative power of that "zero tolerance" abortion stance. It's not one that people treat as a simple disagreement in viewpoint. It deeply offends people, and not just Democrats. The idea that a woman be forced to bear a child that was itself forced upon her in such a traumatic fashion is understandably offensive.

Pro-choice people can vote for "regular" pro-life people (as in pro-life, but with accommodations for exceptional circumstances) if their other positions make up for it. Many feel that the Supreme Court will prevent any real abortion ban anyways, in spite of the politician's stance on the topic, so it's still safe to vote for them. But a position of banning abortion in the case of rape is a deal-breaker. It betrays a fundamental and medieval lack of respect for women that most people believe has no place in modern society. Even if people believe such a ban would never materialize, the person who holds that view is not one they want having any power over anything or anyone.

hogship
08-21-2012, 17:49
Don't underestimate the negative power of that "zero tolerance" abortion stance. It's not one that people treat as a simple disagreement in viewpoint. It deeply offends people, and not just Democrats. The idea that a woman be forced to bear a child that was itself forced upon her in such a traumatic fashion is understandably offensive.

Pro-choice people can vote for "regular" pro-life people (as in pro-life, but with accommodations for exceptional circumstances) if their other positions make up for it. Many feel that the Supreme Court will prevent any real abortion ban anyways, in spite of the politician's stance on the topic, so it's still safe to vote for them. But a position of banning abortion in the case of rape is a deal-breaker. It betrays a fundamental and medieval lack of respect for women that most people believe has no place in modern society. Even if people believe such a ban would never materialize, the person who holds that view is not one they want having any power over anything or anyone.

I can't disagree with any of that, Gundude.......

Can I assume you are one who believes Akin cannot win?

As I said, I don't believe there will be an alternative choice for the voters......if it came down to a deciding between Claire McCaskill, or Todd Akin, it's my belief that darn near all the voters that would have voted for Akin.......are still going to vote for him.

I have no doubt that you are correct in the "no compromise" stance on abortion is offensive to some (truth is, it is VERY offensive to me, as well).......With the stakes in this senate race, I just don't see it as being the factor that makes the voters change their minds about voting for him.

I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't see the future, but that's my gut instinct on it anyway.......:supergrin:

ooc

G17Jake
08-21-2012, 18:20
Yep, that is the crazy, unfounded theory(that the trauma protects against pregnancy) that just helps the D narrative that R men are making decisions on behalf of women with no scientific basis.

It may be? Guss wanted a theory and I posted the only one I heard.

What I know is that Akin made a strategic blunder when he should have known better.

G17Jake
08-21-2012, 18:35
Last I heard (on the Hannity) show at 4:35 est, he isn't dropping out and he won't entertain the thought. Dude has some serious cognitive dissonance there.

I will say this...after hearing him talk, it is little wonder the Dems put a million bucks into his primary campaign.

I heard Hannity today. He pretty much said I can't tell you what to do, but if I were you I would quit. Hannity kept hinting repeatedly that Akin should quit.... saying Akin should consider what is best for the country

Akin thanked Hannity for the tough questions.

Yessir How High
08-21-2012, 20:22
My wife has a friend who was driving along minding her own business when she was struck head on by a non-insured drunk driver.

She was seriously injured and a pregnant woman in the drunk's pickup was killed.

Weeks in the hospital and several surgeries later, she still limps. At least, she gets a handicapped license plate.

The drunk got away on a technicality and is free.

My neighbor back in KS used to say.....,"Life is hard and then you die."

So, now the question becomes.......If a woman, minding her own business, gets raped by some person worthy of euthanizetion, is the solution to kill an innocent product of that crime?

What did the fetus do to deserve euthanization? It didn't do the rape.

There are many many people in this country looking to adopt.

I feel real sorry for those that get 'legitimately raped'.

I feel real sorry for them.

It's just that I cannot see allowing an innocent life to be sacrificed because if it.

An innocent life.

Yessir How High

Yessir How High
08-21-2012, 20:27
If we love life, who will stand up to protect the unborn?

The innocent unborn.

ChuteTheMall
08-21-2012, 20:28
So, now the question becomes.......If a woman, minding her own business, gets raped by some person worthy of euthanizetion, is the solution to kill an innocent product of that crime?

What did the fetus do to deserve euthanization? It didn't do the rape.

There are many many people in this country looking to adopt.

I feel real sorry for those that get 'legitimately raped'.

I feel real sorry for them.

It's just that I cannot see allowing an innocent life to be sacrificed because if it.

An innocent life.

Yessir How High

Well said.:wavey:

Dennisr1977
08-21-2012, 20:29
My wife has a friend who was driving along minding her own business when she was struck head on by a non-insured drunk driver.

She was seriously injured and a pregnant woman in the drunk's pickup was killed.

Weeks in the hospital and several surgeries later, she still limps. At least, she gets a handicapped license plate.

The drunk got away on a technicality and is free.

My neighbor back in KS used to say.....,"Life is hard and then you die."

So, now the question becomes.......If a woman, minding her own business, gets raped by some person worthy of euthanizetion, is the solution to kill an innocent product of that crime?

What did the fetus do to deserve euthanization? It didn't do the rape.

There are many many people in this country looking to adopt.

I feel real sorry for those that get 'legitimately raped'.

I feel real sorry for them.

It's just that I cannot see allowing an innocent life to be sacrificed because if it.

An innocent life.

Yessir How High

So if your wife was raped, you'd make her carry that baby to term, if it was against her wishes? It's the woman's body, and she's the one who has to deal with the reminder for 9 months of something that was done to her, against her will.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Cavalry Doc
08-21-2012, 20:34
Am I interpreting your statement correctly? Are you saying that a woman should take birth control as a "preventative step" in case she is raped?

Nope. Birth control is for consensual intercourse. I have another idea about preventing rape.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/protection.png



I paid for my adult daughter to get her CHL, and have bought her a 1911 and a 9mm carbine. Gotta put your money where your mouth is sometimes.

Yessir How High
08-21-2012, 20:42
So if your wife was raped, you'd make her carry that baby to term, if it was against her wishes? It's the woman's body, and she's the one who has to deal with the reminder for 9 months of something that was done to her, against her will.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

So, if my wife was raped and you were the rapist, I would happily put a bullet in your head regardless of the penalties I would suffer thereafter.

My wife has a mind of her own, which because of our previous discussions, I have to assume would concur with mine.........Her offspring, regardless of the father is half hers and is innocent.

You think killing an innocent person is justified by an act of violence in which the victim is not involved?

Let's kill the persons present at a bank robbery.

An innocent life, have you no soul?

douggmc
08-21-2012, 20:48
Nope. Birth control is for consensual intercourse. I have another idea about preventing rape.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/protection.png

:thumbsup:

ChuteTheMall
08-21-2012, 20:50
So if your wife was raped, you'd make her carry that baby to term, if it was against her wishes? It's the woman's body, and she's the one who has to deal with the reminder for 9 months of something that was done to her, against her will.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

It's not only the woman's body for 9 months, it's the child's body too, and for a lifetime. An entire lifetime.
The innocent baby didn't choose his/her parents, and certainly didn't choose to be murdered.

Dennisr1977
08-21-2012, 21:17
It's not only the woman's body for 9 months, it's the child's body too, and for a lifetime. An entire lifetime.
The innocent baby didn't choose his/her parents, and certainly didn't choose to be murdered.

Not exactly murdering a baby if she is given a after morning pill ASAP after being raped.

I guess I love my wife enough to let her make that decision. It's easy for you guys to spew that garbage, but what would you do if it were your daughter/wife/mother?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

ChuteTheMall
08-21-2012, 21:30
Not exactly murdering a baby if she is given a after morning pill ASAP after being raped.

I guess I love my wife enough to let her make that decision. It's easy for you guys to spew that garbage, but what would you do if it were your daughter/wife/mother?



What if it were you?

What if you had been murdered instead of adopted, or kept?

See how choice works?

Nobody chooses to die, but some choose to kill.

Dennisr1977
08-21-2012, 21:57
What if it were you?

What if you had been murdered instead of adopted, or kept?

See how choice works?

Nobody chooses to die, but some choose to kill.

Boy I hope you're not serious. I would of never known I even existed if I were aborted.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

janice6
08-21-2012, 22:01
Sounds like he caught a Biden bug. Stupid thing to say to the public.

countrygun
08-21-2012, 22:08
What if it were you?

What if you had been murdered instead of adopted, or kept?

See how choice works?

Nobody chooses to die, but some choose to kill.


Hate to disagree but a lot of people choose suicide.

But more importantly I am not comfortable with the thought that if a man can force himself on a woman she has to bear his child.

Among other issues with that concept is the thought that his propensity for rape may be genetic, and while I am not advocatin eugenics for it's own sake, if it prevents a gentically prone rapist from promulgating that gene, I don't have a problem with it,

snerd
08-21-2012, 23:18
[QUOTE=Gundude;19332916]...... So far it seems Democrats have discovered a formula for laughing things off in a way Republicans can't....../QUOTE]
It's not a formula at all. It's the media that has their back!!! They laugh off every piece of film left on the editing room floor, and every story that's buried on page 18!! Pravda had nothing on our liberal media!!!

hogship
08-22-2012, 03:01
=snerd;19334251]
It's not a formula at all. It's the media that has their back!!! They laugh off every piece of film left on the editing room floor, and every story that's buried on page 18!! Pravda had nothing on our liberal media!!!

Exactly right!......It's the MSM.:steamed:

The MSM is the most powerful political force in the USA.......and, something our founders never imagined. We NEED to find a way to make news reporting revert back to the role of keeping government honest by simply reporting the facts.......not controlling the course of events, according to a hidden agenda. The Democrats, being the beneficiary of the slanted MSM reporting, will not lift a finger to change things........

I hope Romney makes this a priority. :wavey:

ooc

Flying-Dutchman
08-22-2012, 04:48
You have to wonder if the system isnít rigged.

The people of Massachusetts of all places voted a Republican in (Scott Brown) to stop Obamacare.

But the Democrats used an illegal reconciliation to pass it anyway.

Fast Forward to the Supreme Court: Justice Roberts changes his mind at the last minute with a puzzling rescue of Obamacare.

And now this Senate Candidate (an experienced politician) implodes so the Senate stays Democrat and Obamacare stays.

No, itís not a conspiracy but the Democrats must be smiling as come January taxes go way up.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 08:13
So, if my wife was raped and you were the rapist, I would happily put a bullet in your head regardless of the penalties I would suffer thereafter.

My wife has a mind of her own, which because of our previous discussions, I have to assume would concur with mine.........Her offspring, regardless of the father is half hers and is innocent.
Bingo. There's the key phrase. It's her choice. Nobody says she has to abort the baby. Likewise, nobody should tell her she can't.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 08:21
What did the fetus do to deserve euthanization? It didn't do the rape.Remember the movie Unforgiven?: "Deservin's got nothin' to do with it"

The woman is innocent too. An innocent person is paying the price no matter what. Nothing's fair about it, but it's simply unacceptable to force children upon women in a free society.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 08:53
I can't disagree with any of that, Gundude.......

Can I assume you are one who believes Akin cannot win?I don't know enough about Missouri voters to say for sure, but I don't like his chances.

Here in NV in 2010, Harry Reid went up against Sharron Angle who had the same zero-tolerance stance on abortion. Her "legitimate rape" moment came when she advised women to make lemonade out of the lemons of rape. Reid's campaign ads slaughtered her over it. Even though Reid was very unpopular, he still beat her relatively easily (by about a 5.5% margin).

To be fair, Angle was scary, in a Ron Paul-like way, to a lot of people, so it's hard to determine if her abortion stance alone would've cost her the job if the rest of her platform was more "mainstream". With both those negatives against her, she was doomed. (As an aside, the fact that her stance on abortion was completely incompatible with her extreme small-government platform wasn't lost on a lot of people either)

I'm pretty certain though, that if she didn't have that stance on abortion, Harry Reid wouldn't be in the Senate today. Her Ron Paul-like scariness could have been overcome by Reid's unpopularity and Nevada's libertarian bent.

So I suppose Akin can win, but there's basically no more room for any other negatives against him, and I don't know that any politician can be that clean.

Cavalry Doc
08-22-2012, 08:58
Remember the movie Unforgiven?: "Deservin's got nothin' to do with it"

The woman is innocent too. An innocent person is paying the price no matter what. Nothing's fair about it, but it's simply unacceptable to force children upon women in a free society.

Except in the case of an assault, the woman is responsible for the pregnancy, along with the father. That is true in most abortions. It's a fact that currently, the right of convenience for the parents outweighs the right to life of the unborn.

Captain Caveman
08-22-2012, 09:14
That is twice you have put rape in the same category are Social Security and Race. If you are that confused I hope you didn't have daughters or raised sons.


And statisitucally he is not right. 32,0000 women get pregnant from rape every year.

Cite your source or quit saying this untruth.
Not perception or rationalization, but medical evidence.

And those are just the REPORTED rapes. Did you know that 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted/raped in their lifetime? Did you know that 1 in 5 are before they are 21? Did you know that only 5% of rapes are even reported?

This issue is near and dear to my heart. My wife was raped a little over 2 months ago. It was reported and she did go to the hospital immediately. She was given Plan B right away, but had side effects. Side effects that are consistent with being impregnated during the crime.

Rape effects not only the woman, but EVERYBODY she knows. Husbands, children, family, friends...EVERYBODY. It's hard enough for the woman to deal with the anger, pain and frustration of the crime.

It's something that will be with my wife for the rest of her life. It will be me for the rest of mine, and our children for the rest of theirs.

So those of you who are of the "no compromise" opinion. Don't judge until you are there. Walk in my shoes for 1 day. Walk in my wife's for 1 day. It's the most horrible thing that can happen to a woman.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 09:14
Except in the case of an assault, the woman is responsible for the pregnancy, along with the father. That is true in most abortions. It's a fact that currently, the right of convenience for the parents outweighs the right to life of the unborn.I'd agree the rights of the mother outweigh the rights of the unborn, but I wouldn't call it "convenience". It's not "inconvenient" to bear a child which was forcefully imposed upon you, anymore than it's "inconvenient" to allow yourself to be beaten to a pulp because you're forbidden the tools to defend yourself.

nmk
08-22-2012, 09:46
Yes, it is really the point. His statement was in response to a question about abortion in the case of rape, and his response was his "reasoning" for opposing it. It wasn't a medical roundtable on the workings of the female reproductive system.

Yep. Other candidates need to distance themselves from this guy yesterday.

Cavalry Doc
08-22-2012, 09:48
I'd agree the rights of the mother outweigh the rights of the unborn, but I wouldn't call it "convenience". It's not "inconvenient" to bear a child which was forcefully imposed upon you, anymore than it's "inconvenient" to allow yourself to be beaten to a pulp because you're forbidden the tools to defend yourself.

Slow down there, you're missing very important details in my post. In a sexual assault, the child IS forced on the mother. But we both know that's not how most aborted pregnancies occur. Outside of an assault, the mother willingly participates in an activity known to create pregnancy. In that case, her and the baby daddy are responsible for the creation of that pregnancy. Abortion is the avoidance if that responsibility that ends a life for their own convenience. It's legal, but that don't make it right.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 10:08
Slow down there, you're missing very important details in my post. In a sexual assault, the child IS forced on the mother. But we both know that's not how most aborted pregnancies occur. Outside of an assault, the mother willingly participates in an activity known to create pregnancy. In that case, her and the baby daddy are responsible for the creation of that pregnancy. Abortion is the avoidance if that responsibility that ends a life for their own convenience. It's legal, but that don't make it right.Yeah, sorry, I misread your post. I mistakenly parsed the first sentence as "Except, in the case of assault..." and thought you were referring to cases of assault, instead of excluding them.

But what you're talking about is what I referred to as a "regular" pro-life stance: that abortion shouldn't be used to undo bad choices.

While I don't adhere to that stance, I can respect it, as I'm sure many pro-choice people like myself can also. It's not a deal-breaker as far as voting for somebody. That's why, when journalists set a trap for somebody on the abortion topic, it always deals with rape or danger to the woman's life. That's the line that's crossed where it transforms from a difference of opinion into one that is almost universally abhorred.

If abortions of convenience were banned, how do you prevent women from claiming rape to get around the law? I don't know the answer, but I know that denying abortion in the cases of legitimate rape (:tongueout:) isn't it.

Cavalry Doc
08-22-2012, 13:45
Yeah, sorry, I misread your post. I mistakenly parsed the first sentence as "Except, in the case of assault..." and thought you were referring to cases of assault, instead of excluding them.

But what you're talking about is what I referred to as a "regular" pro-life stance: that abortion shouldn't be used to undo bad choices.

While I don't adhere to that stance, I can respect it, as I'm sure many pro-choice people like myself can also. It's not a deal-breaker as far as voting for somebody. That's why, when journalists set a trap for somebody on the abortion topic, it always deals with rape or danger to the woman's life. That's the line that's crossed where it transforms from a difference of opinion into one that is almost universally abhorred.

If abortions of convenience were banned, how do you prevent women from claiming rape to get around the law? I don't know the answer, but I know that denying abortion in the cases of legitimate rape (:tongueout:) isn't it.



I don't think they should be banned, just paid for without any public money at all. The ones involved should bear all the costs. Would even support an insurance system that treated it like it should be, an uncovered elective procedure. I also don't support minors getting them without the informed consent of their legal guardian. Appropriate informed consent is important too.

Other than that if you want one, and you are paying for it, your problem.

Ruble Noon
08-22-2012, 13:55
You have to wonder if the system isnít rigged.

The people of Massachusetts of all places voted a Republican in (Scott Brown) to stop Obamacare.

But the Democrats used an illegal reconciliation to pass it anyway.

Fast Forward to the Supreme Court: Justice Roberts changes his mind at the last minute with a puzzling rescue of Obamacare.

And now this Senate Candidate (an experienced politician) implodes so the Senate stays Democrat and Obamacare stays.

No, itís not a conspiracy but the Democrats must be smiling as come January taxes go way up.

Democrats spent $1.5 mil to help Akin win GOP primary




http://washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-spent-1.5-mil-to-help-akin-win-gop-primary/article/2505373#.UDU49KBnS0O

Gundude
08-22-2012, 14:06
I don't think they should be banned, just paid for without any public money at all. The ones involved should bear all the costs. Would even support an insurance system that treated it like it should be, an uncovered elective procedure. I also don't support minors getting them without the informed consent of their legal guardian. Appropriate informed consent is important too.

Other than that if you want one, and you are paying for it, your problem.I can't argue with any of that.

If Republicans can put that in their platform, and get their more religious officials to keep their ridiculous theories on why it should be illegal under any circumstance to themselves, they may start reconnecting with people on more than a "what other choice do we have?" basis.

countrygun
08-22-2012, 14:28
I can't argue with any of that.

If Republicans can put that in their platform, and get their more religious officials to keep their ridiculous theories on why it should be illegal under any circumstance to themselves, they may start reconnecting with people on more than a "what other choice do we have?" basis.


There are a lot of Republicans who feel exactly as Doc and they/we are trying to change the minds of others. My own elected Republican reps to Congress, House and Senate are in line with that.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 14:33
Democrats spent $1.5 mil to help Akin win GOP primary




http://washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-spent-1.5-mil-to-help-akin-win-gop-primary/article/2505373#.UDU49KBnS0OYup, deja vu. They have seen the success this strategy brings and will use it again and again.

From 2010:
Angle’s victory represents a sort of coup for Team Reid, which plotted a years-long strategy to shape Nevada’s electoral landscape, necessitated in part by the senator’s low approval ratings. Most recently, his campaign played an active role in the GOP primary, hammering away on one-time front-runner Sue Lowden. The relentless attacks, compounded by the candidate’s own gaffes, caused a steep slide for Lowden, a former state senator and Nevada Republican Party chairwoman who had argued that she was the most competitive contender against Reid.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jun/09/angles-win-has-reids-touch/From 2012 (the article Ruble linked):The latest example is a new radio ad paid for by the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee that attacks Rep. Todd Akin (R), but does so slyly, in a manner that appears to be designed to endear him to conservative voters.

“Todd Akin calls himself the true conservative, but is he too conservative?” asks the narrator of the ad, which is approved by McCaskill’s campaign and paid for by the DSCC. The narrator goes on to note the negative posture Akin has taken toward President Obama, before concluding, “it’s no surprise Todd has been endorsed by the most conservative leaders in our country – Michele Bachmann and Mike Huckabee.”

Bachmann and Huckabee are popular among conservative voters and are from states in the same geographic region as Missouri. If anything, many undecided conservative primary voters who hear their names in the radio ad would be tempted to give him a closer look.They're even getting more sneaky about it. Instead of just hammering the strong ones, they're also propping up the vulnerable ones.

Once they drop the hammer on Romney in October, it'll be interesting to see if they had a hand in those primaries too, although with that lot of candidates, I don't think they really had to worry that much which one came through. If it was anybody, they would probably have attacked Gingrich, as he's proven himself to be a thorn in their sides before.

Definitely something to keep in mind next primaries though. Especially when you see an attack ad and go "wait, those are all good things". You might be getting set up.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 15:41
There are a lot of Republicans who feel exactly as Doc and they/we are trying to change the minds of others. My own elected Republican reps to Congress, House and Senate are in line with that.Just saw this: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZULtqGpBub6DBCMhCFNG6xUKO2g?docId=341569e9e41c443e971b9514ca594ee1

For now at least, Akin's comments have caused a furor in the Republican Party just as it's trying to narrow the advantage Obama and the Democrats have among women voters. And the debate has highlighted fissures within the GOP over when abortion should be legal. Romney does not oppose abortion in cases of rape and incest or if it will save a mother's life, while Ryan does oppose abortion in cases of rape and incest.

Underscoring the split, the Republican National Committee is including support in its draft platform for an outright ban on abortion in all cases.If that's true, it lends credence to the idea that Republicans at the national level really don't want to win anything.

countrygun
08-22-2012, 15:55
Just saw this: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZULtqGpBub6DBCMhCFNG6xUKO2g?docId=341569e9e41c443e971b9514ca594ee1

If that's true, it lends credence to the idea that Republicans at the national level really don't want to win anything.

I caught that and I am actually glad that they are going to bring it out front and find out how little support they have in th party. These things have to happen and, funny thing, I do see alot more Republicans that argue with their own party than I do Democrats whos seem to just follow to whatever tune the Piper plays.

Gundude
08-22-2012, 16:15
I caught that and I am actually glad that they are going to bring it out front and find out how little support they have in th party. These things have to happen and, funny thing, I do see alot more Republicans that argue with their own party than I do Democrats whos seem to just follow to whatever tune the Piper plays.I think it's discouraging that they don't know the answer already. It's not like it's the first time ever that the abortion issue will play out. We already know where the people stand on the issue.

It looks to me like the RNC is more interested in shoving a certain platform down the throats of the party members, at a time when they can say "hey, you have to support it or you're with Obama."

I agree that Republicans argue with their party more than Democrats do, and it looks like the boys at top are trying to use the fear of Obama to put a stop to that.

series1811
08-23-2012, 03:49
Well you can't blame members of the DNC (including the ones who post here) for wanting to shift the topic of conversation to abortion (or anything) besides:
A. the economy,
B. the deficit and debt,
C. the jobless rate.

If they can't get the debate off of the important issues in the next two months, they know their man is going to get clobbered.

Flying-Dutchman
08-23-2012, 05:29
Democrats spent $1.5 mil to help Akin win GOP primary
http://washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-spent-1.5-mil-to-help-akin-win-gop-primary/article/2505373#.UDU49KBnS0O
Dirty politics; the only way the Democrats can win.

Obama cannot win on the issues and sooner or later the trickery will not work against the will of the American people.

Cavalry Doc
08-23-2012, 05:56
I can't argue with any of that.

If Republicans can put that in their platform, and get their more religious officials to keep their ridiculous theories on why it should be illegal under any circumstance to themselves, they may start reconnecting with people on more than a "what other choice do we have?" basis.


Well, when the Dems are arguing for abortion on demand, inuding minors getting abortions without parental notification or appropriate informed consent, some people are going to argue for the polar opposite. I don't condone that, but I understand it.