Am I making a bomb or what? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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SpectreRider
08-19-2012, 20:53
Is keeping a bunch of ammo in the gun safe a good place for it or a really stupid idea.

The safe is fire rated 1200 degrees F. for 30 min.

I can't say I have ever seen an answer for this. If you know, please share, and Thanks!

Kevin108
08-19-2012, 20:59
It's safe.





Get it!?



But seriously, it is.

janice6
08-19-2012, 20:59
No. For the shell to produce the greatest force the powder must be confined for a finite amount of time for the burn to turn into an explosion.

The release of force of an unconfined shell is in a spherical distribution and is not forced into a particular direction. I believe the force will fall off as the square of the distance similar to light. This will result in a considerable loss of pressure.

The shell will "pop" but the bullets will be confined to the interior and the round is just "cooked" off.

I am not a gun expert but I believe the physics of this situation will be as described.

You are probably better off with the ammo in the safe during a fire. There is less chance of a first responder being hurt.

4TS&W
08-19-2012, 21:01
I ate too much guacamole at the neighborhood party yesterday.

THAT was a bomb!

What you're doing is actually pretty cautious (notice, I didn't say it, on account of the poster above who beat me to it...)

Kevin108
08-19-2012, 21:04
Yep. For a bullet to work, all or almost all of the force needs to be released straight forward in the space of a given shell. When the force is released without the directional control, it's all of the bang but only a fraction of the force.

SpectreRider
08-19-2012, 21:34
OK... I looked up the combustion point for smokeless powder and the low end of the range is about 375 degrees F.

The idea of the safe is to keep the guns from walking off in a break-in and to not burn in a fire.

I enquired about the cost of an insurance rider to cover the wifes jewelery and my firearms and it was ridiculous. So, we bought a second safe.

How hot is the interior of a fire safe supposed to get? Obviously less that 412, the flashpoint for paper. But is it over 375, the flashpoint for powder?

Having rounds cook off inside the safe would surely do some serious damage to the guns.

I would rather leave it all in the safe, but not if it is likely to get hot enough to cook off the ammo.

collim1
08-19-2012, 21:50
Lets think about it...whats heavier? The case or the lead projectile?

The projectile obviously. Without the support of a chamber the case would fly backwards with significantly less force.

hogship
08-19-2012, 21:57
It's best to keep your ammo and guns seperate.........

I guess I'm lucky to have purchased a cheap stack-on gun cabinet 25 years ago. It's been replaced with a Fort Knox gun safe about 15 years ago. The Stack-on has some shelves built into the interior, and makes an excellent lockable storage area for ammunition........

ooc

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1401653/26823685.jpg

jp3975
08-20-2012, 01:08
They did it on myth busters. Put ammo in a normal oven and when it went off, it wouldnt even go through an oven which is like butter to most ammo comming out of a gun.

They even did a 50bmg round.

vafish
08-20-2012, 05:23
I think it depends upon how full you fill the safe with ammo.

A few boxes of ammo in a safe and they will act like they are not confined.

But if you fill all the available space with ammo the safe may provide the containment of pressure until it fails. In which case you would be making a bomb.

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motorcyclist
08-20-2012, 05:46
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1401653/26823685.jpg

I did the same. Bought a safe last year and then made shelves for my old Stack-on cabinet. Mine looks to have been the smaller 8 or 10 gun model, but they make really nice ammo lockers. Amazing how fast you fill it up!

Glockrunner
08-20-2012, 05:46
I think it depends upon how full you fill the safe with ammo.

A few boxes of ammo in a safe and they will act like they are not confined.

But if you fill all the available space with ammo the safe may provide the containment of pressure until it fails. In which case you would be making a bomb.

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True there would be lots of expanding gases but the safe will not contain it well enough to consider it an explosion. Even if the majority is just stored powder. Individual rounds will cook off the same without the explosion.

Now with that said, you are going to go from what was once a cool fire to a much hotter fire with possibly some spontaneous combustion nearby also. But no explosions.

The safe walls will act just like the shell/casings and rupture early allowing the expanding gases to release at almost instant ignition.

hoghunter82
08-20-2012, 07:46
Very unsafe. I would advise that you send all of your ammo to me for safe keeping. Ha ha.

I would NOT advise keeping fireworks in your safe, but if you do please make sure you get a video of it in the event of a fire for YouTube.


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M2 Carbine
08-20-2012, 12:11
One sure thing about storing ammo is, there is no sure thing.

I can't really say what would happen in the safe, except I wouldn't want to be around.


In 1995 my small metal gun shop burned to the ground.
Inside was over 23,000 rounds of loaded ammo, 22, .380, 9x18, 9mm, 38/357, M1 Carbine, Shotgun and rifle ammo up to 30.06. Most of the ammo was in 30 and 50 cal steel ammo boxes stacked under the wood loading benches.

There also were a good bit of reloading components, powder and primers.

The conventional wisdom at the time was ammo in a fire wouldn't do much more than "Pop".
Heck of a Pop.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/CP2.jpg

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Carb3.jpg

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/C1.jpg

Note the bullet hole through the gun powder cans, which did an excellent job of not exploding.
There were a number of bullet holes in stuff.
The blown up cans are WD-40 and Black Powder.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Fpowdercans.jpg

This can wasn't actually in the fire but close enough to burn he paint and cause about 40 rounds of 9mm to blow a fist size hole in the can.
What was interesting is the can didn't blow on the fire side.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/FRockchuckerand9mm.jpg


So, do what you think is best, but in case of a fire don't get too close to see if you are right.:)

youngdocglock
08-20-2012, 12:14
:rofl: OP i thought you were gonna say that you were packing the stuff feom morning glories into tylenol bottles

DragonRider
08-21-2012, 11:41
Ammo Cans are air tight, so they would explode I would think. My grab and go ammo is seperated from my boxed ammo which is in a Sandusky Cabinet.

MrGlock21
08-21-2012, 13:06
Why would you want to use up space of a safe for ammo and not store it on cheap (lockable) shelves? :dunno:

Ammo is not precious. Important paperwork, jewery, valuable firearms, cash etc... is.

SpectreRider
08-21-2012, 16:19
Why would you want to use up space of a safe for ammo and not store it on cheap (lockable) shelves? :dunno:

Ammo is not precious. Important paperwork, jewery, valuable firearms, cash etc... is.

Between the guns and the jewelery and documents, my wife and I outgrew the safe. After dealing with it being overcrowded we bought a second safe and moved the jewelery and documents.

Suddenly I had lots of room in the safe. And a bunch of ammo in a cabinet elsewhere. Moved the ammo and gained cabinet space.

Space is in short supply in my little home. If there is not a good reason not to, it makes sense to consolidate all the guns and ammo into the safe.

edcrosbys
08-21-2012, 19:01
Doesn't some fire safes seal when in a fire? If you had a safe fairly full of ammo I could easily see that causing issues. This is a little different than the Myth Busters firing rounds off in the oven from heat. Don't worry so much about a single bullet, but when a large amount of rounds go off at once in a sealed container.