The STEYR AUG A3 is back! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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raven11
08-23-2012, 15:31
http://www.ratworxusa.com/pagHome.aspx

I'm pretty excited for the A3 because this time around they come with FN barrels and vltor receivers. I might wait for the price to come down a tad but the last time I tried that Sabre defense went out of business. They should ship at the end of August

fnfalman
08-23-2012, 16:24
It's an AUG clone and not an Steyr AUG. Pretty damn pricey for a clone.

PettyOfficer
08-23-2012, 16:55
Amateur website means they don't pay attention to details. Stay away.

raven11
08-23-2012, 16:58
It's an AUG clone and not an Steyr AUG. Pretty damn pricey for a clone.

Dreamkiller:crying:

arclight610
08-23-2012, 17:13
Amateur website means they don't pay attention to details. Stay away.

Rat Worx is amateur? I just attended one of their machinegun shoots last year and its anything but.

MarcDW
08-23-2012, 18:11
The web site is a turn off and I would not buy anything unless I have it in hand.

Bo Heck
08-23-2012, 18:27
It's an AUG clone and not an Steyr AUG. Pretty damn pricey for a clone.

Huh? It's a Steyr...just made in the US...under license and supervision from Steyr. The first few will be marked Sabre on the bottom of the receiver, which is buried in the stock when assembled. After that, they will be marked Vltor, in the same manner. STEYR will be prominently displayed on the outside, the only visible mark.

See This thread for pics. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/376828_08_10_12_Steyr_AUG_A3_Update_and_Pics.html)

Amateur website means they don't pay attention to details. Stay away.

These guys are some of the best in the business. I'm not defending their web designer, but their customer service and products obviously take precedence over a fancy website.


The comeback of the AUG by Steyr in the US has been in discussion for months and much anticipated, just on other forums I guess.

raven11
08-23-2012, 18:37
Huh? It's a Steyr...just made in the US...under license and supervision from Steyr. The first few will be marked Sabre on the bottom of the receiver, which is buried in the stock when assembled. After that, they will be marked Vltor, in the same manner. STEYR will be prominently displayed on the outside, the only visible mark.

See This thread for pics. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/376828_08_10_12_Steyr_AUG_A3_Update_and_Pics.html)



Thanks for the Pics. I'm a huge fan of bullpups so this is the next rifle on my "to buy list" before something else happens to steyr

12131
08-23-2012, 18:42
Rat Worx is amateur? I just attended one of their machinegun shoots last year and its anything but.
Exactly! RATWORX is amateur is like saying Nolan Ryan pitched in Triple A.:rofl:

cessnastud
08-23-2012, 18:49
Exactly! RATWORX is amateur is like saying Nolan Ryan pitched in Triple A.:rofl:

He did pitch in the minors. Albeit, no long. I'm still excited about an AUG though.

12131
08-23-2012, 19:52
He did pitch in the minors. Albeit, no long. I'm still excited about an AUG though.
Damn man, why you have to go and be Debbie Downer?:crying:

RWBlue
08-23-2012, 20:23
The Aug was on my wish list, then ...

Now it is a toss up between the Aug and FN. I can not put my hands on either locally.


One more thought....If I could get the Aug with a 300blackout barrel setup for suppressor & 223, then it would be an easy decision.




I wish someone would make a good bulpup in 308.:crying:

paulbow
08-23-2012, 20:42
I've wanted one of these for a long long time. Maybe I'll pick one up if I can come up with the money.

raven11
08-23-2012, 20:43
The Aug was on my wish list, then ...

Now it is a toss up between the Aug and FN. I can not put my hands on either locally.


One more thought....If I could get the Aug with a 300blackout barrel setup for suppressor & 223, then it would be an easy decision.




I wish someone would make a good bulpup in 308.:crying:

FN2000 or FN SCAR?

RWBlue
08-23-2012, 20:49
fn2000 or fn scar?

fs2000....

raven11
08-23-2012, 21:06
fs2000....

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c316/raven1121/IMG_2704.jpg

It's a great rifle , takes AR magazines but in fairness the charging handle is weak for something that you have to pull all the way back and release for it to properly function. The dust skirt in the magwell makes changing magazines a chore , and cleaning the weapon requires a clean room and a BA in mechanical engineering

12131
08-23-2012, 21:48
Between the AUG and the FS2000, I'd take the AUG. Had the FS2000, it was awkward and bulky for a bullpup. That thumbhole grip is just bad design.
Handle the AUG and you know it is the definition of bullpup. Nuf said.

fnfalman
08-23-2012, 22:44
How can a gun made by another company is a Steyr?

MarcDW
08-23-2012, 22:50
The FS2000 I have seen were not too accurate either, most AR do better.
The AUG is the best bull pump rifle, no question.
Easy to take out the barrel and really compact.
If they want to do the job right, they offer different barrel options.

jp3975
08-23-2012, 23:53
Tavor is supposed to be available this year.

http://brightgreenscotland.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/israeli-girl-soldier-tavor-mars-red-dot-556.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92tuskSoR1r9khx4o1_1280.jpg

NeverMore1701
08-23-2012, 23:59
I'm still waiting for a bullpup with accuracy, reliability, and trigger equal to my Noveske. It'll probably be a while, but if one ever becomes available, I'll jump all over it!

NIB
08-24-2012, 00:28
Amateur website means they don't pay attention to details. Stay away.

Whats wrong with the website? I guess you weren't around when Glock had a single page website with the words "coming soon" for about 4 or 5 years.

NeverMore1701
08-24-2012, 01:04
Whats wrong with the website? I guess you weren't around when Glock had a single page website with the words "coming soon" for about 4 or 5 years.

Good point, I don't want a Glock either!


:tongueout:

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 02:25
How can a gun made by another company is a Steyr?

It's made on Steyr equipment and tooling. And under the supervision of Steyr engineers. It's not importable if it was completely made in Austria.

I've had a Steyr (Sabre) A3 for about 3 years. It's a great gun and fantastic quality. I see these new ones being no different.

It's the same thing with the Tavor that someone mentioned. For it to get into this country, it has to be partially made here.

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 02:28
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c316/raven1121/IMG_2704.jpg

It's a great rifle , takes AR magazines but in fairness the charging handle is weak for something that you have to pull all the way back and release for it to properly function. The dust skirt in the magwell makes changing magazines a chore , and cleaning the weapon requires a clean room and a BA in mechanical engineering

I just bought one of those. I knew of the shortcomings before I bought it. But it should be a fine rifle. And it may look weird. But to me, it's very, very pointable and comfortable.

---
Any bullpup is no less reliable than any AR. With the F/s2000, most of the issues I've seen/heard were because of operator error. If you think an FS2000 is gonna work/act like an AR, you're in a dreamland. As for the trigger pull. They'll never be as good as an AR can be. Just the beast of the overall design. Triggers can be improved with the use of a Trigger Tamer or other similar product.

Nine Shooter
08-24-2012, 02:36
I don't see it on their website?

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 02:55
I don't see it on their website?

It's on the front page, below the graphic. It's just a worded announcement for now. Ratworx is a good company, but I'd go with Pete from http://www.pjs-steyraug.com/ . He's THE AUG guy in the USA. And he's a good guy

These new guns will be excellent quality. The older Steyr/Sabre were/are excellent quality as well. Sabre made excellent products. Their illegal business practices, not so much.:supergrin: Some folks are saying/thinking that somehow because these have Vltor/FN parts that they are somehow better the Sabre parts. Simply not true. This is just my MHO, but I've had experience with all three companies.

All the info you really need about them, are on that AR15 thread someone posted on the first page.


Bullpups have never been a huge deal here in the USA. And of course, so folks try them and don't like them. But I have loved them for years. But I like AR's as well.

MarcDW
08-24-2012, 05:37
Two things I dislike:
1. It is stamped .223 Rem and not 5.56.
2. It uses AUG magazines, they should have switched to M16 mags.

wellcraft
08-24-2012, 06:24
Amateur website means they don't pay attention to details. Stay away.

i don't see anything amateurish about thier website, i've seen much better and i've seen much worse. it would be a good idea to do a little research prior to condemning someone's business based on your opinion of their webpage. ratworx is a great business with a good reputation and has been around for a while.

i wish i could buy a AUG A3 and 1999 is a reasonable price in my opinion but unfortunately not in my budget :( i still prefer the old style AUG's with the 1.5 scope. i always thouight the was super cool ever since i saw one in the movie commando.

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 08:31
Two things I dislike:
1. It is stamped .223 Rem and not 5.56.
2. It uses AUG magazines, they should have switched to M16 mags.

1. I don't have confirmation on the new FN barrels. But the Sabre made barrels were/are also stamped .223. I was told and I later, called SteyrArms and asked if it was safe for 5.56. They told me what I thought. Though the gun is stamped .223, it's actually made/chambered for 5.56. They had it stamped .223, to make it easier for folks in the US, to figure out what ammo to shoot and to have it seem/be put in to the "sporting" category. Most ammo you see in the stores/online are marked .223.

2. Yes, they come in stocks that take AUG mags. But NATO stocks are available, so you can shoot with AR mags. Those stocks are still available. But I also believe that this time around, they are shipping some guns straight from the factory with the NATO stock.

Which is all fair and good. But why SHOULD it be able to use AR/M16 mags? It's a completely different gun than an AR.

JBnTX
08-24-2012, 08:37
It's an AUG clone and not an Steyr AUG...


End of story.

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 08:40
.......................

MarcDW
08-24-2012, 09:07
...But why SHOULD it be able to use AR/M16 mags? It's a completely different gun than an AR.
Yes it is.
However the M16 magazines are everywhere available and cheap.

A AUG 30 round magazine is $45.
I can buy 2 PMag's and they are every bit as good.
Matter a fact I sold most of my HK G36 magazines and bought PMag G36 instead.
Also most people have M16 magazines and if you go to the range, you don't have to bring different mags for each gun.
Also if these guns (unlikely form the price) are bought by LE most likely they have some AR's. This way the magazines are exchangeable.

fnfalman
08-24-2012, 10:37
Except that M16 mag's design was crap in the first place. MagPul's better material and QAQC helps, but it doesn't overcome the weakness in the design.

RWBlue
08-24-2012, 11:26
Which is all fair and good. But why SHOULD it be able to use AR/M16 mags? It's a completely different gun than an AR.

AR mags are cheap, avaliable and AUG mags are not.

Not to mention that most people who will purchase an AUG already have some AR mags sitting around.

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 12:23
Eh. Honestly it's a moot point. Like I said, a NATO stock is available. And I believe some new AUGs are shipping with the NATO stock. And it's a completely different rifle from a different side of the world. So by what some have said. Just because the AR is the most popular rifle and mags are cheap and plentiful, apparently different rilfes should be made to use AR mags. I guess since Beretta 92 mags or Glock mags are plentiful, all 9mm guns should be able to use one or the other.

That and the fact that draft STANAG (never ratified) 4179 is a NATO standardization. And Austria is not a member of NATO. Though the beloved PMAG is not STANAG spec. So even some rifles made to take regular M16/AR15 mags, they won't to the PMAGS, EMAGS, Lancers, etc.

Oh. And with about 5 seconds of searching I found 30 round AUG mags for $30. I know, still not as cheap as the cheapy AR mags.

RWBlue
08-24-2012, 13:18
Eh. Honestly it's a moot point. Like I said, a NATO stock is available. And I believe some new AUGs are shipping with the NATO stock. And it's a completely different rifle from a different side of the world. So by what some have said. Just because the AR is the most popular rifle and mags are cheap and plentiful, apparently different rilfes should be made to use AR mags. I guess since Beretta 92 mags or Glock mags are plentiful, all 9mm guns should be able to use one or the other.

That and the fact that draft STANAG (never ratified) 4179 is a NATO standardization. And Austria is not a member of NATO. Though the beloved PMAG is not STANAG spec. So even some rifles made to take regular M16/AR15 mags, they won't to the PMAGS, EMAGS, Lancers, etc.

Oh. And with about 5 seconds of searching I found 30 round AUG mags for $30. I know, still not as cheap as the cheapy AR mags.

Having been around when the Clinton gun mag ban was around....... I don't want another rifle with another mag UNLESS there is a VERY good reason for it.

The fact that they have a stock which works with AR mags, I don't understand why they would not sell the rifle with that stock. What am I missing?

BTW, If I were designing a new handgun, I would be very tempted to design it to take Glock mags, but then again, I am an engineer, not someone from marketing. The marketing and sales guys will tell you they will make more money if we have our own mags.

MarcDW
08-24-2012, 15:51
...BTW, If I were designing a new handgun, I would be very tempted to design it to take Glock mags, but then again, I am an engineer, not someone from marketing. The marketing and sales guys will tell you they will make more money if we have our own mags.

Years ago when the Beretta CX4 was out for a little while, sales were not that great (and never improved).
A Beretta rep told me "the management" asked the reps what would improve sales of the CX4.
"Make it to use Glock mags!" was the answer from most of the reps and that created a huge stink!

However it is true, the CX4 would sell if it would use Glock mags!

fnfalman
08-24-2012, 16:08
AR mags are cheap, avaliable and AUG mags are not.

Not to mention that most people who will purchase an AUG already have some AR mags sitting around.

Why the hell would anybody that wants to purchase an AUG or AUG type rifle would want to have a damn good gun saddled with inferior mags?

RWBlue
08-24-2012, 17:21
Why the hell would anybody that wants to purchase an AUG or AUG type rifle would want to have a damn good gun saddled with inferior mags?

As long as you understand that the mag is a part that will wear out, it is not an issue.

What I have seen is most people who complain about the AR:
1. with ammo issues are using under powered ammo (civilian 223 ammo).

2. with mag issues are military or use military mags which are worn out and/or abused. Additionally the contract for making military mags was being passed around from small company to small company for longer than anyone wants to admit. Every time the new company got the contract they would produce many screwed up mags.

Then there are the other rifles which use the mag.
http://brightgreenscotland.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/israeli-girl-soldier-tavor-mars-red-dot-556.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92tuskSoR1r9khx4o1_1280.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c316/raven1121/IMG_2704.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80

http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=1489&cid=7

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/05/09/mossberg-mvp-varmint-rifle-with-5-56mm-ar-15-magazine/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3617347/Galil-manual

And I am sure there are more.

MarcDW
08-24-2012, 17:29
...inferior mags?

What is your obsession with M16 magazines??
Of course you can buy some real cheap mags which don't work.
But if you use regular mil spec mags or E/PMags they work just fine.

By the way, the Steyr 40 round magazines are known to have their own issues when they get a little more used.

RWBlue
08-24-2012, 17:42
Years ago when the Beretta CX4 was out for a little while, sales were not that great (and never improved).
A Beretta rep told me "the management" asked the reps what would improve sales of the CX4.
"Make it to use Glock mags!" was the answer from most of the reps and that created a huge stink!

However it is true, the CX4 would sell if it would use Glock mags!


This makes sense.
Think of all the people (departments) who have made a decision to go glock for their pistol.

Now they are thinking about a rifle for longer shots. If your gun uses the same Glock mag, it is an easy decision. If not, people start looking for other options. Departments have to send it out for bid.

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 19:27
Having been around when the Clinton gun mag ban was around....... I don't want another rifle with another mag UNLESS there is a VERY good reason for it.

The fact that they have a stock which works with AR mags, I don't understand why they would not sell the rifle with that stock. What am I missing?

BTW, If I were designing a new handgun, I would be very tempted to design it to take Glock mags, but then again, I am an engineer, not someone from marketing. The marketing and sales guys will tell you they will make more money if we have our own mags.

Because it's an AUG, not an AR. It's just a bonus that you can get a stock to use the some AR mags.

I understand what you're saying. But I guarantee that if all they made/sold here in the US were the NATO stocks, many would complain about it. I buy and AUG and I plan/expect to use AUG mags. But it's a nice addition for people that a new stock can be used for some AR mags. But seriously, every company has their proprietary stuff. And since the STANAG mag is a NATO mag and Austria has never been a NATO member, I don't see what the big deal is about. Just because ARs are #1 here in the US, doesn't mean that everything else gets thrown out the window. And after asking, they are in fact shipping some new AUGs with the NATO stock. Again it's a nice bonus to have, but it's still an AUG and not an AR.

Geez. And I thought people complained because some STANAG designed rifles (like the F/S2000 ) won't take PMAGS.:supergrin:

raven11
08-24-2012, 19:34
Because it's an AUG, not an AR. It's just a bonus that you can get a stock to use the some AR mags.

I understand what you're saying. But I guarantee that if all they made/sold here in the US were the NATO stocks, many would complain about it. I buy and AUG and I plan/expect to use AUG mags. But it's a nice addition for people that a new stock can be used for some AR mags. But seriously, every company has their proprietary stuff. And since the STANAG mag is a NATO mag and Austria has never been a NATO member, I don't see what the big deal is about. Just because ARs are #1 here in the US, doesn't mean that everything else gets thrown out the window. And after asking, they are in fact shipping some new AUGs with the NATO stock. Again it's a nice bonus to have, but it's still an AUG and not an AR.

Geez. And I thought people complained because some STANAG designed rifles (like the F/S2000 ) won't take PMAGS.:supergrin:

Good point , I remember Sig owners complained that the Sig 556 didn't use 550 magazines

Sheepdog Scout
08-24-2012, 21:50
Good point , I remember Sig owners complained that the Sig 556 didn't use 550 magazines

I'm sure there were plenty. But as an aside, I'm sure some were happy to have it use STANAG mags. I guess my think is this. People should be happy/grateful to have the extra option(s). I guess that some people when ever they buy a new gun that uses magazines, they feel or do buy a dozen or so new mags for the gun. And some people don't want to have to spend the money for all new different kinds of mags. But I have a number of guns that only have 2-3 mags. The rifles and handguns that I carry or would use for serious purposes have at least 12-15 mags. This includes a number of rifles and pistols. A backup, to the backup kind of thing. And if you knowingly buy an expensive rifle, I would hope/think that you can afford a few extra mags for it if you wanted it.

My AUG is a gun I would use for defensive purposes. So I bought a number of 30 round and 42 round mags (and got a couple free from Pete at PJA that I listed earlier).

Now I just bought an FS2000 this week. And yes, it's a bonus that it runs STANAG mags, but it was designed for it. But it won't run pmags, emags, etc. So the STANAG mags I already have can run in it, but the plastic ones can't. Just the way it is. Having this rifle run with mags I already have is a bonus and it is one of the reasons I bought the gun. But if we have the ever popular SHTF :rofl::supergrin: situation. If I run out of ammo and toss my mags with the FS2000. I'm in a world of hurt if I all I find are pmags. :whistling: But that kind of thing wouldn't be an issue for me anyways. Considering I was trained to retain my mags and not toss 'em.


That's right. I managed to fit in a SHTF reference in this thread. :tongueout:

I've gotta mingle out of this thread. Because I have a sneaking feeling that I'm repeating myself. :)

fnfalman
08-25-2012, 00:07
What is your obsession with M16 magazines??
Of course you can buy some real cheap mags which don't work.
But if you use regular mil spec mags or E/PMags they work just fine.

GI mags are crap. PMags are big improvement, but they don't solve the issue that the mag was not meant to be a 30-rounder from the beginning.

By the way, the Steyr 40 round magazines are known to have their own issues when they get a little more used.

It's a 42-round mag, and those are stupid long.

NEOH212
08-25-2012, 03:46
Tavor is supposed to be available this year.

http://brightgreenscotland.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/israeli-girl-soldier-tavor-mars-red-dot-556.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m92tuskSoR1r9khx4o1_1280.jpg

I'm waiting on the Tavor.

I want one!

:supergrin:

MarcDW
08-25-2012, 04:39
GI mags are crap. PMags are big improvement, but they don't solve the issue that the mag was not meant to be a 30-rounder from the beginning...
They seem to work fine for the US Forces!?
While I personally prefer the 20 round magazines too, I have not seen any new GI magazines which don't work.
Like with any mechanical part there is a life expectancy on magazines too.
If you buy surplus GI magazines, why do you think the military sold them?

I'm waiting on the Tavor.

I want one!

:supergrin:
The girl is not included and/or does not deliver the Tavor!:tongueout:

jp3975
08-25-2012, 15:27
I'm waiting on the Tavor.

I want one!

:supergrin:

Me too. Havent decided whether I'll buy one of those or a Krinkov.

Sheepdog Scout
08-25-2012, 21:26
Me too. Havent decided whether I'll buy one of those or a Krinkov.

I like the Tavor. Heck, I'm a bullpup nut. And though these will be brand new to the US, I don't forsee any major quality or reliability issues.

But just like the Beretta AXR, the Tavor news, announcements and updates is very slow to nonexistent. I understand things take time and slip ups happen. But I won't wait forever.

The Tavor is supposed to be out this year. But we'll see.

But honestly, I've been wanting an FS2000 for a while. So I got on of those.

jp3975
08-25-2012, 21:36
I like the Tavor. Heck, I'm a bullpup nut. And though these will be brand new to the US, I don't forsee any major quality or reliability issues.

But just like the Beretta AXR, the Tavor news, announcements and updates is very slow to nonexistent. I understand things take time and slip ups happen. But I won't wait forever.

The Tavor is supposed to be out this year. But we'll see.

But honestly, I've been wanting an FS2000 for a while. So I got on of those.

I understand...it happens all too often that new things are delayed. Im fairly patient about things I want. I just heard them say before the next president is in at the shot show.

I really like the F/s2000 too. I was fortunate enough to get to shoot the full auto version when the FN rep was in town. Shot it and the P90 on full auto. Very fun but $100s disappear fast on ammo. lol

Sheepdog Scout
08-25-2012, 23:29
I understand...it happens all too often that new things are delayed. Im fairly patient about things I want. I just heard them say before the next president is in at the shot show.

I really like the F/s2000 too. I was fortunate enough to get to shoot the full auto version when the FN rep was in town. Shot it and the P90 on full auto. Very fun but $100s disappear fast on ammo. lol

True. Full auto .22's are fun. And cheaper. I heard that too about the Tavor. Again, we'll see. It can take a while to set up shot in a new country. Which is what they have to do. Truth be told I'd probably prefer a different model than the flattop, at least on the Tavor. FS2000 I just bought is the flattop/tactical model. But I wasn't sold on the standard model and the duribility of the optic housing on it. That and the standard can be hard to find or more expensive.

I will say that it is excellent that IWI is/will have a factory of sorts here in the US. Though some parts are already made here in the US.