Reloading equipment or new G17? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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PettyOfficer
08-23-2012, 19:36
So on a whim I took an old gold necklace to one of those "we buy your gold shops". They offered me 62% of market so now I have some loose change.

I've been wanting a G17 for a long time, ever since I learned of GSSF and shot an IDPA match (I have a G30, bought used, and would like my next purchase to be new).

However, the recent $400 Reload or Buy Bulk thread got me thinking.

I'm feeling the pressure, I can actually afford to do either now! I could be cleaning my first batch of brass this weekend or shooting my first 300 rounds.

So I'm obviously going into a new caliber, which would necessitate stocking up (on a much cheaper round), and I'm torn at the additional ammo costs.

Obviously, if I went reload on .45 only, I'd only be reloading a thousand or so rounds a year, but think it would be great fun and educational. On the other hand, shooting cheaper ammo with a full sized pistol in a competitive (or training) environment would be lots of fun too!

I already have a decent range ammo stockpile of .45, so my need for reloading isn't immediate.

If I go with the G17, my next big purchase decision would be reloading equipment or a 9mm AR/Carbine.

I'm torn. My budget is the cost of a G17, finance committee wont let me go any higher on a big purchase. (I'm not counting the cost of the eventual growth of my stockpile, extra mags, holster, etc... Those can be a Christmas and birthday gifts for myself).

So what say you Lords of Reloading?

Boxerglocker
08-23-2012, 20:13
If you start loading now and put a hold on expanding your collection. The money you will save while being able to continually shoot will eventually add up, that the cost of a new gun will be irrelevant and be much more affordable later down the line.

$400 will get you in a good LCT start-up set to load .45 and loading FMJ's at around $180-200 a thousand with moderate bulk buys. Sell the stockpiled range ammo off and use the money to buy more components. 500 rounds of new factory range ammo will pay for 1000 in components.

emtjr928
08-23-2012, 20:16
Well, I'll chime in. With your 45acp @ 1000 rnds per year not so much. Your desire for a G17 being noted would seem to increase your ammo usage in 9mm but maybe at the expense of the 45. While reloading can be a rewarding experience in and of itself, many folks get into it to be able to shoot more for the same cost as previous range fodder budget. For others who already go through a lot of ammo do it to work up a load for their specific needs and reduce the cost somewhat.
Bottom line as I see, give more thought of your final goal. What you want to do with your shooting either in caliber or competition/training will drive the volume and will clarify your reloading decision.

ps. I am definitely NOT any type of Lord. lol

Chris Brines
08-23-2012, 20:21
So on a whim I took an old gold necklace to one of those "we buy your gold shops". They offered me 62% of market so now I have some loose change.

I've been wanting a G17 for a long time, ever since I learned of GSSF and shot an IDPA match (I have a G30, bought used, and would like my next purchase to be new).

However, the recent $400 Reload or Buy Bulk thread got me thinking.

I'm feeling the pressure, I can actually afford to do either now! I could be cleaning my first batch of brass this weekend or shooting my first 300 rounds.

So I'm obviously going into a new caliber, which would necessitate stocking up (on a much cheaper round), and I'm torn at the additional ammo costs.

Obviously, if I went reload on .45 only, I'd only be reloading a thousand or so rounds a year, but think it would be great fun and educational. On the other hand, shooting cheaper ammo with a full sized pistol in a competitive (or training) environment would be lots of fun too!

I already have a decent range ammo stockpile of .45, so my need for reloading isn't immediate.

If I go with the G17, my next big purchase decision would be reloading equipment or a 9mm AR/Carbine.

I'm torn. My budget is the cost of a G17, finance committee wont let me go any higher on a big purchase. (I'm not counting the cost of the eventual growth of my stockpile, extra mags, holster, etc... Those can be a Christmas and birthday gifts for myself).

So what say you Lords of Reloading?

Do you not own a 9mm? If you don't mind me asking, what calibers of pistol do you own? I'd say if you don't own at least one 9, go with the G17 (I personally prefer the slightly smaller Glock 19, but hey, a G17 is....well....a G17...the original Glock).

But like someone else said, even still I'd say the reloading equipment would probably be the better investment in the long run, and the money you'd save on ammo would eventually allow you to get that 9, and you'd have all your reloading stuff and experience...just a thought.


But if you already have all your bases covered on handgun calibers (I have a 9, 40, and a 357), I'd do that first. But reloading equipment is definitely a worthwhile investment. I just finally loaded my first batch of 38's and 357's. Might load up some 9mm's this weekend (I have a Glock 26....definitely a top notch gun if you like sub compacts). I'd recommend the Lee Classic Turret if you decide to get reloading gear.

PCJim
08-23-2012, 21:31
Very valid comments above. Consider also that your greatest reloading savings will assuredly be in bulk component purchases, ie 8# powder, 5-10K primers and K's of bullets. These purchases are not inexpensive. If you have to purchase in smaller quantities, such as 1-200 primers or 1# powder at your local supply house, you might very well not see much of a savings in reloading, if at all.

Remember that reloading is a hobby and has initial sunk costs just like RC boats, scuba diving or snowboarding / skiing.

F106 Fan
08-23-2012, 21:45
I take it that you have no interest in competing with the .45. That's understandable because IDPA (and certainly GSSF) is a Glock 9mm game, at least in SSP class.

I believe you could shoot the G30 in the IDPA CDP class with other .45s although others here would know better. I'm sure you can shoot it in SSP but the 9mm guys will be shooting faster.

There's also an advantage to the .45 that is often overlooked. To meet the IDPA 125 power factor with a 230 grain bullet only requires 550 feet per second. I don't even know how to load a .45 at that low speed. But, if I could, and if I could get a lighter recoil spring and striker spring, there would be no recoil at all. Great big holes and no recoil.

For CDP I think you have to get the power factor up to 165 so you would need something over 720 fps and that is still a very light load.

Why not compete with what you have and get started on reloading. Many of us began competing when the 1911 was king (still is in my mind) and .45 was the name of the game. It's all a matter of grip, sight picture and trigger control.

While I'm on a roll, I'll suggest you get a KKM aftermarket barrel for the G30 so you can shoot lead bullets. Your cost to load 230 gr LRN in .45 ACP will be about $0.12/shot. That's about $6 per box or, for those of us that reload and deal in thousands, about $120/1000. You can do a little better with somewhat cheaper supplies than what I use and you might be able to get it down to $100/1000.

Yes, I know that many people shoot lead through the Glock barrels. And, yes, I have done it and it seems to work out ok. In fact, I think my KKM barrel leads up worse than the Glock. I'm just tossing it out there for you to think about. I'm not advocating one solution or the other. But I am advocating for the low cost of lead bullets. They're about 2/3 the cost of jacketed.

FWIW, my KKM barrel on my G21SF will shoot 200 gr LSWC and I prefer this bullet. It makes a really large, perfectly round, hole. Easy to score and sometimes a split scoring ring makes all the difference.

It takes a LOT of shooting to get really good at action pistol.

Richard

PettyOfficer
08-23-2012, 22:03
A) I have a .22LR and my G30

B) For GSSF I can use both (G30 for subs, heavy metal, etc).

C) for IDPA I'll shoot both at different times. Some times G30 for CCW practice, other times with the G17 for time.

D) Sorry if I wasted your time, the wife made me drive her to the store to buy some stuff for work tomorrow and it was only blocks from an Academy Sports (best prices outside of a gunshow) and I pulled the trigger.

I'm now a proud owner of a Gen4 G17 for $570 +tax!!!!!

But seriously, next big decision will lean towards reloading. Might even start buying components now (dies, scale, brass tumbler, etc), and get the press for Xmas or something.

Thanks for all of your replies, but I was too giddy when she dragged me out of the house that my wants outweighed my needs :)

Sorry, surfing from my iPad and I don't have any apps that will let me resize the photo. I don't know why the policies changed.

SARDG
08-23-2012, 22:34
A) I have a .22LR and my G30

B) For GSSF I can use both (G30 for subs, heavy metal, etc).

D) ...Academy Sports (best prices outside of a gunshow) and I pulled the trigger.

I'm now a proud owner of a Gen4 G17 for $570 +tax!!!!!

PettyOfficer - are you a current Petty Officer, OR since you mentioned GSSF - are you a current member of GSSF? :shocked:

robin303
08-23-2012, 22:37
You will love the G 17. Good choice. Now just save your brass. :supergrin:

fredj338
08-23-2012, 23:36
1000rds of factory 45acp would run just under $400. Your call. I wouldn't reload for 1000rds a year of any service caliber. It does save you moeny, nothing wrong with that. Then the money saved on ammo can be usd to eventually buy a new gun. GLocks aren't going anywhere.

PettyOfficer
08-23-2012, 23:43
PettyOfficer - are you a current Petty Officer, OR since you mentioned GSSF - are you a current member of GSSF? :shocked:

USN, honorably discharged, 10% VA disability, and not yet GSSF member.

Why 'shocked'?

SARDG
08-24-2012, 00:17
USN, honorably discharged, 10% VA disability, and not yet GSSF member.

Why 'shocked'?
Well because, if you were current mil, the price for that Glock is $398.20. If you were current GSSF, the price should be $425 - but that $425 is often hard to nail down and requires joining GSSF - and for 2 years minimum if you want a gun coupon right away. Still, I'd join GSSF sooner, rather than later. There are plenty of Blue Label (LEO/mil/GSSF) dealers in TX I believe.

Boxerglocker
08-24-2012, 07:33
Well because, if you were current mil, the price for that Glock is $398.20. If you were current GSSF, the price should be $425 - but that $425 is often hard to nail down and requires joining GSSF - and for 2 years minimum if you want a gun coupon right away. Still, I'd join GSSF sooner, rather than later. There are plenty of Blue Label (LEO/mil/GSSF) dealers in TX I believe.

Too late he already bought one....

SARDG
08-24-2012, 08:13
Too late he already bought one....
I know... and I'd like to help him make certain he doesn't do that again at that price.

PettyOfficer
08-24-2012, 11:31
Well because, if you were current mil, the price for that Glock is $398.20. If you were current GSSF, the price should be $425 - but that $425 is often hard to nail down and requires joining GSSF - and for 2 years minimum if you want a gun coupon right away. Still, I'd join GSSF sooner, rather than later. There are plenty of Blue Label (LEO/mil/GSSF) dealers in TX I believe.

Yeah, I've done the research. $60 for two year membership, takes a few months to get processed and get my coupon, then have to order the gun (assuming I can't find one in stock somewhere) which will be after months of backlog, pay for shipping and FFL fee (20-40)... The nearest LEO store is like 50 miles (100 miles round trip is like $10 in gas).

In all, i paid probably $50 or $60 more but I have it today and I'm going to the range after work, instead of getting it 3-7 months from now.

If I buy another Glock I'll go that route, but I'm sick of .45 prices and finally got the cash.

SARDG
08-24-2012, 11:46
Yeah, I've done the research. $60 for two year membership, takes a few months to get processed and get my coupon, then have to order the gun (assuming I can't find one in stock somewhere) which will be after months of backlog, pay for shipping and FFL fee (20-40)... The nearest LEO store is like 50 miles (100 miles round trip is like $10 in gas).

In all, i paid probably $50 or $60 more but I have it today and I'm going to the range after work, instead of getting it 3-7 months from now.

If I buy another Glock I'll go that route, but I'm sick of .45 prices and finally got the cash.
Mostly true. When I order from Glock, they say 150 days now. I have a Gen4 17 and a Gen4 20 on order for about a month now - but these two are GSSF wins and I've learned to be patient.

BuzznRose
08-24-2012, 11:51
Well because, if you were current mil, the price for that Glock is $398.20. If you were current GSSF, the price should be $425 - but that $425 is often hard to nail down and requires joining GSSF - and for 2 years minimum if you want a gun coupon right away. Still, I'd join GSSF sooner, rather than later. There are plenty of Blue Label (LEO/mil/GSSF) dealers in TX I believe.

Current or Retired military both buy blue labels.

Here is where I buy blue labels...

http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=GLOCK-PG17502




"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."
-- John Wayne

SARDG
08-24-2012, 12:07
Current or Retired military both buy blue labels.
This is true...

Here is where I buy blue labels...

http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=GLOCK-PG17502
...and this is the main TX company I was thinking of above.


Personally, I have more patience, than money - so I go for the wait and the cheaper price. Fact is though, my master plan is to simply win Glocks from now on out at GSSF matches, and not buy any more new Glocks at any price.

I qualify for LEO/mil, but since Glock took Ed's Public Safety out of the picture for Floridians, it's just no fun anymore. Local dealers want to fight you about the correct price, they largely have to order what you want, then they try to take the 3rd mag out before selling it to you. And I have to drive 50-150 miles for that privilege. Nope - just going to win them and order from Glock.

PettyOfficer
08-24-2012, 12:25
I wanted to go to this Decembers San Antonio match but life has intervened. Maybe next year I'll hit Dallas or somewhere in Louisiana... There are some indoor Glock shoots I could compete in, once a month, 3 times... I got the 17 so maybe I could increase my chances of winning one too!

I'm getting good with my G30 (Sub, heavy, heavy sub?), but I've never been timed and my local range has a max 19 yards (and very dim down there), so I don't know how well Id shoot those 25 yard targets very fast.

I might buy a SS RSA for the 17 for unlimited class but that's about it: quick changeout. Only shoot unlimited for the extra drawing entry and practice, not expecting to outshoot a master in unlimited!

I'm going to post on the GSSF sub forum, since my G17 is for target, I need advice on new sights.

unclebob
08-24-2012, 12:42
I wanted to go to this Decembers San Antonio match but life has intervened. Maybe next year I'll hit Dallas or somewhere in Louisiana... There are some indoor Glock shoots I could compete in, once a month, 3 times... I got the 17 so maybe I could increase my chances of winning one too!

I'm getting good with my G30 (Sub, heavy, heavy sub?), but I've never been timed and my local range has a max 19 yards (and very dim down there), so I don't know how well Id shoot those 25 yard targets very fast.

I might buy a SS RSA for the 17 for unlimited class but that's about it: quick changeout. Only shoot unlimited for the extra drawing entry and practice, not expecting to outshoot a master in unlimited!

I'm going to post on the GSSF sub forum, since my G17 is for target, I need advice on new sights.


In GSSF it does not make any difference on how well you shoot to win a gun. You can come in last place and get a gun or money. You could safely put every round in the berm and not hit one target a win a gun. After the first place getting a gun depending on how many competitors in that category determines on how many guns are given out. Glock then they tells the computer to give them say 3 numbers between say 5 and 100. If your entry number is one of those numbers you win a gun or money, or other prizes.
For sights if you can when at a range and see people with different sights. Just ask them if you could take a look at them. I have gone through about 5 different kinds of sights for My GSSF guns. So just in iron sights I have gone through about 20 sights. Not including 5 red dot sights. Right now I use Dawson fiber rear adjustable and fiber front sights. Red year and green front.

SARDG
08-24-2012, 12:59
I wanted to go to this Decembers San Antonio match but life has intervened. Maybe next year I'll hit Dallas or somewhere in Louisiana... There are some indoor Glock shoots I could compete in, once a month, 3 times... I got the 17 so maybe I could increase my chances of winning one too!
Don't know what your driving limits are but what promises to be a great and well-organized match will be held in Mobile AL, 3rd weekend in Oct. It's at the Mobile County Sheriff's Office new range and being largely organized by an Alabama Trooper who is a GSSF Master shooter.

I'm getting good with my G30 (Sub, heavy, heavy sub?), but I've never been timed and my local range has a max 19 yards (and very dim down there), so I don't know how well Id shoot those 25 yard targets very fast.
You can shoot your G30 in evey single Division there is (7), but folks like to use them in Major Subcompact and Heavy Metal mostly.

I might buy a SS RSA for the 17 for unlimited class but that's about it: quick changeout. Only shoot unlimited for the extra drawing entry and practice, not expecting to outshoot a master in unlimited!
Unless you plan to enter ALL 7 Divisions at $25 each, Unlimited would be the very last Division I'd enter. Regardless, I wouldn't buy an RSA for it because you (very likely) aren't going to win against Masters shooting their $2K-$3K racers. I'm a Master with a $2K racer and I don't come close to winning Unlimited.

I'm going to post on the GSSF sub forum, since my G17 is for target, I need advice on new sights.
They'll help you out over there.

unclebob
08-24-2012, 15:22
Kitty
One time In U/L I came in last place. Trouble with the gun and got a gun. No you are not going to win first place against the masters but if there is enough shooters in U/L. You can still get a gun.

SARDG
08-24-2012, 15:45
Kitty
One time In U/L I came in last place. Trouble with the gun and got a gun. No you are not going to win first place against the masters but if there is enough shooters in U/L. You can still get a gun.
I'm never going to 'win' a gun again in GSSF. :crying: My gun take-aways have been relegated to the ranks of random.

BTW, I remind you that I came in last in UNL once, too!:tongueout: :embarassed: ...but it was the gun's fault; really...

unclebob
08-24-2012, 15:54
I'm never going to 'win' a gun again in GSSF. :crying: My gun take-aways have been relegated to the ranks of random.

BTW, I remind you that I came in last in UNL once, too!:tongueout: :embarassed: ...but it was the gun's fault; really...

But did you get a gun out of it?:supergrin:

I have only came in first place one time. I know better than to get into the deep end of the poll.
I just had cataract surgery. Wrong glassís, the rear sights were a blur, the front sights were a blur and the targets were a blur.

SARDG
08-24-2012, 16:01
But did you get a gun out of it?:supergrin:

I have only came in first place one time. I know better than to get into the deep end of the poll.
I just had cataract surgery. Wrong glass’s, the rear sights were a blur, the front sights were a blur and the targets were a blur.
Phew :phew:, one more excuse and we would have to call in Mike G35 to restock your excuse bucket. :rofl:

ETA: Oh, and no.. I didn't get a gun in UNL, and no randoms - but got too many guns in other Divisions.

unclebob
08-24-2012, 16:23
Phew :phew:, one more excuse and we would have to call in Mike G35 to restock your excuse bucket. :rofl:

ETA: Oh, and no.. I didn't get a gun in UNL, and no randoms - but got too many guns in other Divisions.

Excuses are for only when you don't come in first place.:tongueout:

PettyOfficer
08-24-2012, 21:15
Wrong glass’s, the rear sights were a blur, the front sights were a blur and the targets were a blur.
i have a stigmatism that makes it hard to focus on the front site, everything is blurry but the front site, depending on the shape of the target I might see two or three (round targets don't give me grief, just targets with horizontal planes/lines like the top and bottom of a square.

shotgunred
08-25-2012, 07:16
The best way to buy a blue label gun is to find out if there are any local dealer that are authorized to sell them. As luck would have it one of my local dealers is a blue label dealer. I have bought three blue label glocks from him. All I needed was a retired military ID card to get the discounted price. It didn't take any longer than it takes to buy any other handgun.

SARDG
08-25-2012, 07:46
The best way to buy a blue label gun is to find out if there are any local dealer that are authorized to sell them...
...and make certain that they are asking the 'correct' mil Blue Label price. Many shops who are not Level 1 dealers are selling the basic Glocks for ~$440 instead of $398.20. I have an LGS whose Blue Label mil price is ~$440 and his Blue Label GSSF price is the correct $425.

quantico
09-01-2012, 00:10
I am looking at my first press. I think buying a press and being able to make your own ammo would be a great investment in education and a real survival skill to have. Many folks have guns on top of guns, but feeding them is a real concern. Primers are hard to make at home... so I would not be worried about stocking up on them. If in the future we get crazy ammo laws on top of crazy gun laws... having your own ability to make rounds would be a pretty awesome skill set to have.
Ammo is also getting more and more expensive. But the reason I want a press is to make some very light and easy to shoot 45 acp ammo for my daughter and I to practice with. I cant buy the ammo I want, but I can sure make it.