Ideal weight in .40? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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brokenprism
08-25-2012, 17:48
I like heavy for caliber ammo. I have heretofore shot only 180 gr stuff in my G22. I like not only the penetration, but the stability that the length of this bullet gives.

Recently I started thinking about the 165 gr. I have no experience with it but I believe it goes about 100 fps faster than its older brother. At a loss of only 15 grs of weight (doesn't sound like much), and a gain of 100 fps, isn't the 165 gr the ideal compromise between 155 and 180? (Related question: how does the 200 gr .40 perform?)

A G23 is next on my pre-election checklist, and I was thinking of making that a 165 gr gun.

Beretta92guy
08-25-2012, 18:58
to get the true maximum stopping potential out of the .40:

155 grain gold-dot or silvertip...

my ccw load..

avenues165
08-25-2012, 19:06
My Gen 4 G23 is currently loaded with 165gr Federal HST.

I like the idea of a 165gr bullet for the .40. It's moving a little faster and that seems to help bullets open up more consistently. However, it is probably no longer an issue, 180gr HPs seem to open up just fine in the tests I have seen.

I have read the fast/light and slow/heavy arguments. There are things that make sense to me on both sides, but neither side has convinced me. I pick middle of the road, and 165gr in .40 seems middle of the road in both weight and velocity.

In the winter the 180gr makes more sense to me.

NDCent
08-25-2012, 19:50
to get the true maximum stopping potential out of the .40:

155 grain gold-dot or silvertip...

my ccw load..

+1
Exactly what I use, FWIW.

jbglock
08-25-2012, 19:58
Personally I believe in the heavier (180 grain) bullet weight. As a bonus it is more controllable for me than the lighter weight bullets. If you really want the most velocity and muzzle energy then look up some 135 grain bullet loadings in this caliber.

plouffedaddy
08-25-2012, 20:20
http://youtu.be/Sr9PDB97WXg

If you skip ahead to 8:20 (ish) you'll see some real world chrono testing. Here's the result:

Winchester Ranger 135gr JHPs: 1208fps, 437 ft/lbs energy
Federal HST 165gr Bonded JHPs: 1114fps, 455 ft/lbs energy
Federal HST 180gr JHPs: 1095fps, 479 ft/lbs energy

I keep my 40s loaded with the 165gt ammo FWIW.

1canvas
08-25-2012, 20:57
for me I think the 165 is best all around in the .40 but in my 27 I carry 180s for a little more control. my 23 is loaded with 165s HSTs my 27 180 HSTs. so to the OP I think you are right in saying the 165 is a good compromise of speed and weight.

brokenprism
08-25-2012, 21:12
Personally I believe in the heavier (180 grain) bullet weight. As a bonus it is more controllable for me than the lighter weight bullets. If you really want the most velocity and muzzle energy then look up some 135 grain bullet loadings in this caliber.

I tried a box of double tap 135s once, and I was very pleasantly surprised with the accuracy. It was a smoking round, too. But I have the same issue with light and fast .40 as I did with .357 in the 70s, and that's penetration. Back then I wasn't confident in the 158's ability to expand, so I was always on a quest for the middle weight -- CCI 145s back then, or Silvertip. I've read more bad about Silvertip lately than good, but even if I hadn't, with HST and RA40T available, why would anyone go 'backwards' to older technology?

I once fired a box of Remington Express 155s and they felt plenty powerful. They were also dirty little boogers.

I'll try both weights in my 23 when she comes home and go with accuracy first.

Shooter64
08-25-2012, 21:32
I've noticed I have the best accuracy with 165gr with factory and handloads in my .40 Glocks.
Remington's golden saber data is showing the 165gr load to have more energy than the 180gr load.
just my 2.

Sent from TapTalk 2

JW1178
08-25-2012, 23:15
Well, most LE who use the G22 use 180gr loads. 165 is moving a little faster, but the newer bullets such as the HST opens wide and fast even at lower velocities. The extra weight gives it the momentum to push deep.

165 is great with Gold Dot's because they like a little extra velocity. They will use the velocity to get wide but open a little more slowly so they get real deep.

M 7
08-25-2012, 23:35
I like heavy for caliber ammo. I have heretofore shot only 180 gr stuff in my G22. I like not only the penetration, but the stability that the length of this bullet gives.

Recently I started thinking about the 165 gr. I have no experience with it but I believe it goes about 100 fps faster than its older brother. At a loss of only 15 grs of weight (doesn't sound like much), and a gain of 100 fps, isn't the 165 gr the ideal compromise between 155 and 180? (Related question: how does the 200 gr .40 perform?)

A G23 is next on my pre-election checklist, and I was thinking of making that a 165 gr gun.

I just look to the local PDs. Like you and me, they like the heavy stuff and issue the Winchester .40S&W 180 gr. Ranger T JHPs. When I go with a .40, that's what I load it with.

CDW4ME
08-26-2012, 05:31
The lighter bullets may produce more recoil than the 180 gr.

Chrono average for 5 shots out of Glock 27:

Federal 180 JHP @ 925 fps = PF 167
Federal 180 gr. HS @ 930 fps = PF 167
Remington 165 gr. Golden Saber @ 1,018 fps = PF 168
Those ^ three loads are softer shooting out of my 27

Speer Gold Dot 155 gr. @ 1,134 fps = PF 175
Winchester Ranger T 165 @ 1,116 fps = PF 184

PF = power factor a calculation that can be used to compare recoil.
bullet weight x bullet speed / 1,000 = PF

packinaglock
08-26-2012, 06:34
to get the true maximum stopping potential out of the .40:

155 grain gold-dot or silvertip...

my ccw load..

I like the 155g gold Dots out of my .40's

Ranger45
08-26-2012, 10:03
I've been carrying 180gr Speer Gold Dots in my USPc. Based on some of the tests I've seen, conversations with local sheriff's deputies, and Mas Ayoob's preference I'm going to pick up some 165gr. Winchester Ranger Ts.

Pretty sure I'll stick with the two heavier loadings in either Federal, Winchester or Speer.

SDGlock23
08-26-2012, 12:37
I like them all, so I'm not biased. The 180, 165, and 155 are all great. Wish there were more 135's and 200's. The 165 is a little faster than most 180's and is certainly a top performer.

Chronographed these today out of Gen4 G23 (4" and listed velocity is the average)

Hornady 165gr Critical Defense: 1100 fps
Federal 165gr HST: 1077 fps
Winchester 165gr Ranger: 1097 fps
Remington 165gr Golden Saber: 1085 fps
Double Tap 165gr Gold Dot: 1123 fps (To add the DT 155gr Gold Dot did 1235 fps avg)

I don't have any Underwoods 165gr or I would have ran those. I forgot to test the 165gr Winchester Ranger...but stay tuned I may go outside and run some to add to the list. (Updated!)

Snowman92D
08-26-2012, 12:46
For what it's worth, it sure seems like the 180-grain loads print noticeably above the point of aim in most guns. With the 165-grain loads, it's pretty much dead-on POI-to-POA for me.

cowboy1964
08-26-2012, 13:18
http://youtu.be/Sr9PDB97WXg

If you skip ahead to 8:20 (ish) you'll see some real world chrono testing. Here's the result:

Winchester Ranger 135gr JHPs: 1208fps, 437 ft/lbs energy
Federal HST 165gr Bonded JHPs: 1114fps, 455 ft/lbs energy
Federal HST 180gr JHPs: 1095fps, 479 ft/lbs energy

I keep my 40s loaded with the 165gt ammo FWIW.

Interesting that the 180 gains more velocity than the lighter ones in that G35 and ends up having more energy. Typically it would have less energy. 1114 fps from the 165 HST Bonded seems rather low. It should be doing more than that from a G22, let alone a G35.

cowboy1964
08-26-2012, 13:25
I think 165gr is a good compromise for the .40. That said I think all of them are sufficient. I really like 180s though. After all, isn't the point of a bullet starting with ".4" is that it's big and heavy?

.40 Federal HST 180 gr Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

Speer Gold Dot .40 S&W 180 gr JHP SIM-TEST w/denim - YouTube

klmmicro
08-26-2012, 13:29
I personally go for the heavier bullet, 180 grains. It produces less felt recoil to me and is accurate. Also, it is plentiful where I am.

RYT 2BER
08-26-2012, 20:48
I like 165... But admittedly I always get a kick out of the fact that so many people prefer 180....

Reason being that the 10mm is the "magnum version" and people go ape #%^* over 135 grain.

Why do 10mm fans seem to favor (from my perception ) lighter weights when 40 fans favor heavier, when in reality 10mm has the extra case space to make the heavier projectile perform better????

shotgunred
08-26-2012, 20:54
165 gr tend to keyhole a lot. 180 never seem to.

plouffedaddy
08-27-2012, 07:57
165 gr tend to keyhole a lot. 180 never seem to.

I've never heard this :dunno: Is there somewhere I could go and check out the evidence of this?

glock20c10mm
08-27-2012, 17:53
I like a bullet weight that does the most damage, round for round, to human and animal adversaries. Usually that is not the heaviest for cartridge bullet (180gr in 40 S&W) you can commonly choose.

NEOH212
08-28-2012, 01:15
A 165 grain JHP loaded to the velocity of 1,150 fps + from a 4" barrel.

This load is very hard to beat in the .40 and it's what I carry when I'm toting a .40 cal pistol.

Preferably either Speer Gold Dots or Ranger-T.

NEOH212
08-28-2012, 01:16
I've never really cared for any other weight in .40S&W. This isn't to say the others are bad, I just don't personally care for them.

NEOH212
08-28-2012, 01:18
165 gr tend to keyhole a lot. 180 never seem to.

I've never had one 165 grain bulled keyhole and I've fired tens of thousands of them.

I have had the 135 Corbon Crap-power-ball keyhole severely though. Now that's some crap ammo.

I don't know why anyone would want to carry that crap anyhow.

GIockGuy24
08-28-2012, 09:39
I like some of the 165 grain bullet loads. Remington Golden Sabers are loaded about the hottest with Speer being very close. Winchester is slightly milder but Winchester quality seems to have slipped recently. Federal loads about the mildest 165 grain bullet loads, some aren't going any faster than the 180 grain bullet loads. There is much less chance of pressure problems due to bullet setback with 165 grain bullets compared to 180 grain bullets. The 180 grain bullets just leave very little case capacity for the powder and a little bullet setback can really push the pressure up with 180 grain bullets. That's why the 165 grain and lighter weight bullets can loaded so much hotter. Because there is more powder capacity without going overpressure. The 165 FMJ target practice loads are usually loaded milder than the 165 grain JHP loads. so most of them don't compare well with shooting most of the 165 grain JHP loads. The 155 grain FMJ loads are usually loaded a bit hotter than tne 165 grain FMJ loads though.

gatorboy
08-29-2012, 08:23
Depends on the bullet

HST 180
GD 155
Ranger (all) 165
GS Bonded 180

avenues165
08-31-2012, 22:06
I've never had one 165 grain bulled keyhole and I've fired tens of thousands of them.

I have had the 135 Corbon Crap-power-ball keyhole severely though. Now that's some crap ammo.

I don't know why anyone would want to carry that crap anyhow.

I, too, have never seen 165gr bullets keyhole out of my Glocks. In fact, I have never seen any bullets keyhole out of my Glocks.

4949shooter
09-01-2012, 04:51
I like 165... But admittedly I always get a kick out of the fact that so many people prefer 180....

Reason being that the 10mm is the "magnum version" and people go ape #%^* over 135 grain.

Why do 10mm fans seem to favor (from my perception ) lighter weights when 40 fans favor heavier, when in reality 10mm has the extra case space to make the heavier projectile perform better????

Because 10mm shooters are velocity fanatics (I am one of them).

There is most definately a contradiction in philosophies.

180 will get the job done though.

RYT 2BER
09-01-2012, 06:02
Because 10mm shooters are velocity fanatics (I am one of them).

There is most definately a contradiction in philosophies.

180 will get the job done though.

Excellent post.. I've been waiting for a long time to hear someone say this. I think it accurately encapsulates my confusion in the issue...

Even moreso as I'm about to buy a g20

4949shooter
09-01-2012, 08:08
Even moreso as I'm about to buy a g20

Enjoy!

Nanuk
09-04-2012, 00:26
Because 10mm shooters are velocity fanatics (I am one of them).

There is most definately a contradiction in philosophies.

180 will get the job done though.


What contradictory? I like big and fast, just my big and fast is in the flavor of 44 Magnum. :innocent:

4949shooter
09-04-2012, 13:14
What contradictory? I like big and fast, just my big and fast is in the flavor of 44 Magnum. :innocent:

Yep with 44 mag you can have big and fast. :wavey:

hunter won
09-04-2012, 21:49
The original 135 grain +P Corbon had an excellent one shop stop record back in the 90's. Corbon changed the bullet and made it milder. The 180 grain Gold Dot is softer shooting in my Glock 27 than the 165 grain Ranger T . I do use the 165 T series because it works real good in many documented LE shootings.

paragon1
09-04-2012, 22:52
I honestly believe it is difficult to find a bad .40 round.