I just found a copy of the NYC police-officer manual...... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Beretta92guy
08-26-2012, 10:12
1. Marksmanship Principles: ready...fire... AIM!!!!!! :50cal:

ponders
08-26-2012, 10:24
:faint::faint::rofl::rofl::rofl:

dakrat
08-26-2012, 10:25
I would like to witness your marksmanship skills if you were in their situation. its very easy to assume and judge behind a computer on a comfortable chair. these men and women put their lives at risk everyday to protect yours and your loved ones. give a little respect

they qualify with their duty weapon regularly to stay on the job. what type of proof that you have that you can shoot better than them? have you classified in any action pistol matches at all?

Beretta92guy
08-26-2012, 10:27
I would like to witness your marksmanship skills if you were in their situation. its very easy to assume and judge behind a computer on a comfortable chair. these men and women put their lives at risk everyday to protect yours and your loved ones. give a little respect

well, for your 4-1-1 police officers are supposed to be HIGHLY TRAINED, above and beyond the average civilian.......

idiot mayor bloomberg hails these people as "heroes", if a citizen had taken out the bad guy along with collateral damage he would be up on attempted murder charges, not being hailed as a HERO.....what a joke!!!

i know in my job if i made such a blatant and costly mistake i would be FIRED, not hailed as a HERO....

maybe NYC cops should get a NY3 glock trigger, making it 45-pound trigger pull, maybe their accuracy would improve.....

but hey, just as long as the officers "went home safe", thats all that matters, huh???

any questions???

youngdocglock
08-26-2012, 10:36
I would like to witness your marksmanship skills if you were in their situation. its very easy to assume and judge behind a computer on a comfortable chair. these men and women put their lives at risk everyday to protect yours and your loved ones. give a little respect

they qualify with their duty weapon regularly to stay on the job. what type of proof that you have that you can shoot better than them? have you classified in any action pistol matches at all?

I've gone through Frontsight 3 times and qualified pistol marksmen in the Marine Corps.

now can you cite for me any reason on the face of god where firing into a crowd of people is warranted?

Also what reason on earth ignoring the basic rules of firearms safety is okay?

NEVER FIRE BLINDLY WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR BACKSTOP. side stepping 3-4 times can often change your backstop from PEOPLE to a brick wall!. These officers failed to do ANYTHING to protect the people around them. PERIOD.

This was a human target. at close range. Why on gods earth these guys could not hit him.........shows their "skills". Not to mention Police qualifications are not meant to make "marksmen" they have to pass a low score to keep their gun, even if its by 1 point. I've met cops who passed the quals then failed to train any further because "it wasnt needed" due to passing. Some idiots have this mentality, this needs to change.

These officers messed up BIG TIME. Shooting innocent civilians.......NOT OKAY no matter the scenario, this is not war, civilian casualties are NOT acceptable. Everyone whose ever worn a badge knows this.

END OF STORY. These officers should be fired, than prosecuted for attempted murder/manslaughter. Nuff said.

S&WShooter
08-26-2012, 11:00
Do I think its right they shot some civilians? No. But don't ctitize them until you have been in the same situation and reacted differently.

Beretta92guy
08-26-2012, 11:01
I've gone through Frontsight 3 times and qualified pistol marksmen in the Marine Corps.

now can you cite for me any reason on the face of god where firing into a crowd of people is warranted?

Also what reason on earth ignoring the basic rules of firearms safety is okay?

NEVER FIRE BLINDLY WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR BACKSTOP. side stepping 3-4 times can often change your backstop from PEOPLE to a brick wall!. These officers failed to do ANYTHING to protect the people around them. PERIOD.

This was a human target. at close range. Why on gods earth these guys could not hit him.........shows their "skills". Not to mention Police qualifications are not meant to make "marksmen" they have to pass a low score to keep their gun, even if its by 1 point. I've met cops who passed the quals then failed to train any further because "it wasnt needed" due to passing. Some idiots have this mentality, this needs to change.

These officers messed up BIG TIME. Shooting innocent civilians.......NOT OKAY no matter the scenario, this is not war, civilian casualties are NOT acceptable. Everyone whose ever worn a badge knows this.

END OF STORY. These officers should be fired, than prosecuted for attempted murder/manslaughter. Nuff said.

dead-on RIGHT!!! but of course in NYC where idiocy and hypocrisy rule the citizens, that wont happen...

bloomberg and the morons on city council will probably promote the incompetents to assistant chiefs!!!!

dakrat
08-26-2012, 11:08
I've gone through Frontsight 3 times and qualified pistol marksmen in the Marine Corps.

Good on ya Sir. I never doubted your shooting ability. I am sure shooting static at a static target at CATM is not the same as a live perp that shoots back.

now can you cite for me any reason on the face of god where firing into a crowd of people is warranted?

at that point, the officer's life is directly threatened and acted accordingly to save his life. since you were in the marines, I am sure you know all about proportionality and collateral damage.. or not

Also what reason on earth ignoring the basic rules of firearms safety is okay?

NEVER FIRE BLINDLY WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR BACKSTOP. side stepping 3-4 times can often change your backstop from PEOPLE to a brick wall!. These officers failed to do ANYTHING to protect the people around them. PERIOD.

Sir, they are in New York City. when is there ever a safe backdrop? have you seen the footage of the shooting? the perp pointed his firearm at them which is a direct threat to their live. do you expect them to not shoot? when can they shoot? they will protect their own lives first, then others. they are not bodyguards.

dakrat
08-26-2012, 11:10
Do I think its right they shot some civilians? No. But don't ctitize them until you have been in the same situation and reacted differently.

+1.

this is teh interwebz where people can pretend they are better than otherzzzz

texas 48
08-26-2012, 11:29
Good on ya Sir. I never doubted your shooting ability. I am sure shooting static at a static target at CATM is not the same as a live perp that shoots back.



at that point, the officer's life is directly threatened and acted accordingly to save his life. since you were in the marines, I am sure you know all about proportionality and collateral damage.. or not



Sir, they are in New York City. when is there ever a safe backdrop? have you seen the footage of the shooting? the perp pointed his firearm at them which is a direct threat to their live. do you expect them to not shoot? when can they shoot? they will protect their own lives first, then others. they are not bodyguards.

I would expect them to shoot to protect their lives but I also expect a properly trained and qualified police officer to not miss at least 10 of 16 shots at 8 feet and wound 9 innocent bystanders. A double standard is in play here. If it were a civilian with a CHL that wounded 9 people Bloomberg would have been out of his mind demanding that they be arrested for attempted murder. This is tragic, embarrassing and pathetic.

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ScottieG59
08-26-2012, 12:02
Lets see what comes out of the investigation. It is really unfair to compare this to non-law enforcement encounters. The private citizen does not pursue once contact is broken. Law Enforcement has an affirmative duty to act.

Maybe something could have been done differently and the investigation, followed by possible civil suits may sort it out.

I have been fortunate in my experience with armed opponents; they were at a greater range and I was just one on several targets. Usually, it was just a matter of getting out of the kill zone. Standing and fighting might have been messy.

When it is up front and personal, and all you have is a handgun, it will be messy. As a soldier, I would not want to be that close. Police work is different.

Anyway, I know I do not want to do police work. They do not usually have a combat mindset on the job, but they need to be ready for the very rare possibility.

Still, I can not ignore the number of bystanders injured.

Lior
08-26-2012, 12:13
The idea of a gun with an artificially heavy trigger seems to be to render it safe for holding suspects at gunpoint, not for surgical accuracy in a gunfight.

Here patrol officers almost never have to threaten suspects at gunpoint. If a gun clears leather, then it's shooting time. Oh yes and most of them are single action too.

hhb
08-26-2012, 12:14
Retired LEO. Had the same goal at the beginning of every shift. Go home alive. A lot is concealed license holders dream about being the savior at a similar event, appearing on all the talk shows to discuss what O'clock they carry at & how many spare mags were handy.


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Kimura
08-26-2012, 12:18
well, for your 4-1-1 police officers are supposed to be HIGHLY TRAINED, above and beyond the average civilian.......

idiot mayor bloomberg hails these people as "heroes", if a citizen had taken out the bad guy along with collateral damage he would be up on attempted murder charges, not being hailed as a HERO.....what a joke!!!

i know in my job if i made such a blatant and costly mistake i would be FIRED, not hailed as a HERO....

maybe NYC cops should get a NY3 glock trigger, making it 45-pound trigger pull, maybe their accuracy would improve.....

but hey, just as long as the officers "went home safe", thats all that matters, huh???

any questions???

Yes, have you ever been in a gunfight? Have you ever been in any type of fight?


I've gone through Frontsight 3 times and qualified pistol marksmen in the Marine Corps.

now can you cite for me any reason on the face of god where firing into a crowd of people is warranted?

Also what reason on earth ignoring the basic rules of firearms safety is okay?

NEVER FIRE BLINDLY WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR BACKSTOP. side stepping 3-4 times can often change your backstop from PEOPLE to a brick wall!. These officers failed to do ANYTHING to protect the people around them. PERIOD.

This was a human target. at close range. Why on gods earth these guys could not hit him.........shows their "skills". Not to mention Police qualifications are not meant to make "marksmen" they have to pass a low score to keep their gun, even if its by 1 point. I've met cops who passed the quals then failed to train any further because "it wasnt needed" due to passing. Some idiots have this mentality, this needs to change.

These officers messed up BIG TIME. Shooting innocent civilians.......NOT OKAY no matter the scenario, this is not war, civilian casualties are NOT acceptable. Everyone whose ever worn a badge knows this.

END OF STORY. These officers should be fired, than prosecuted for attempted murder/manslaughter. Nuff said.

In principal yes, but same question; have you ever done it for real? You mention that you had been some training and that you qualified as pistol marksman in the Corps. Wonderful, but did you ever have to use it in gunfight? If so, was it a crowded city street? Did you not fire or change your position to fire when you had to? Were you obligated to pursue the suspect/combatant?

Easy to judge them from while typing on a keyboard. But none of us were there and none of us have read the shooting investigation report yet.

texas 48
08-26-2012, 12:26
Easy to judge them from while typing on a keyboard. But none of us were there and none of us have read the shooting investigation report yet.
I would wager none of us ever will. It's off the radar and none of the media will cover this. It doesn't fit their paradigm. Again tragic embarrassing, and pathetic.

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