Speaking of Religious Accommodation: does religious freedom trump security? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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427
08-26-2012, 23:21
American Taliban seeks group prayer in Ind. prison
http://news.yahoo.com/american-taliban-seeks-group-prayer-ind-prison-171224890.html

Blast
08-27-2012, 00:35
No. Regardless of religious affiliation.

High-Gear
08-27-2012, 00:43
First when I read "American Taliban" I thought you were referring to Snowbird. :)



I'll be interested to see people's responses.

Will the religious on this forum who would usually follow the saying "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." bend when it pertains to muslims being the ones losing their liberty? Do they only care when it is their rights being taken away?

Or

Will they stand up for fellow followers of faith? Does the 1A apply to everyone?

NMG26
08-27-2012, 04:03
American Taliban seeks group prayer in Ind. prison
http://news.yahoo.com/american-taliban-seeks-group-prayer-ind-prison-171224890.html


They were free at one time. Now they are not.

The prison system is in charge of how much of anything they get. That includes religion.

Jail has got to suck or we would all go.


.

Bren
08-27-2012, 04:51
The prison has to show a legitimate reason for not allowing it, if it's part of his religion. Security is a legitimate reason. The weakness is that they have to get a judge to agree with them and the judge may turn out to be anything from a soldier who has served in combat to the typical limpwristed, suburban, minivan-driving POS who goes from high school to college to law school with no life experience (a liberal/Democrat, I believe they are called).

snowbird
08-27-2012, 14:53
First when I read "American Taliban" I thought you were referring to Snowbird. :)

What you're hinting at obliquely is, you support John Walker Lindh, an American traitor who was caught red-handed fighting with an enemy unit AGAINST American soldiers.

He was fighting to take away our rights. He was trying to kill US troops. That's called treason.

If an American traitor had been caught fighting on the side of the Nazis, there wouldn't have been any debate about giving him all kinds of 'rights' in prison, as if it's like a burger joint where you 'can have it your way'. He would have been tried and executed. That's what should have happened to this traitor, but today our society has rotted from within by leftists and too many people's lack of will to do what's right.

God save America.

Bren
08-27-2012, 15:12
What you're hinting at obliquely is, you support John Walker Lindh, an American traitor who was caught red-handed fighting with an enemy unit AGAINST American soldiers.

He was fighting to take away our rights. He was trying to kill US troops. That's called treason.

If an American traitor had been caught fighting on the side of the Nazis, there wouldn't have been any debate about giving him all kinds of 'rights' in prison, as if it's like a burger joint where you 'can have it your way'. He would have been tried and executed. That's what should have happened to this traitor, but today our society has rotted from within by leftists and too many people's lack of will to do what's right.

God save America.

Actually, let's say the person is a military officer, who defected to the Nazis and joined the SS, by flying to Italy in a stolen U.S. aircraft, and after the war surrended to the U.S. still in his SS uniform.

He'd get 25 years and get parolled in half of that. He'd be named Martin James Monti.

snowbird
08-27-2012, 15:55
Actually, let's say the person is a military officer, who defected to the Nazis and joined the SS, by flying to Italy in a stolen U.S. aircraft, and after the war surrended to the U.S. still in his SS uniform.

He'd get 25 years and get parolled in half of that. He'd be named Martin James Monti.

I never heard of the guy, thanks for bringing him to my attention. Our security was pretty lax to let him get away with all of that (but we still have lousy security. Nobody in authority, except one brave Arizona sheriff, has checked out our commander-in-chief's shady past. He found Hussein's birth certificate, as posted online, to be phony. Our borders seem pretty much open too).

It's said Monti's IQ was over 130. But defecting to the Nazis in late 1944 doesn't seem very brilliant, never mind the immorality of it. Smart people don't have to be decent, and they don't have to have common sense either, it seems.

Again, God save America.

Animal Mother
08-27-2012, 22:23
I never heard of the guy, thanks for bringing him to my attention. Our security was pretty lax to let him get away with all of that (but we still have lousy security. Nobody in authority, except one brave Arizona sheriff, has checked out our commander-in-chief's shady past. He found Hussein's birth certificate, as posted online, to be phony. Our borders seem pretty much open too). The fact that you revere a man who can't be bothered to do the job he was elected to instead of grasping at any bit of attention he can find says a lot about your character.
It's said Monti's IQ was over 130. But defecting to the Nazis in late 1944 doesn't seem very brilliant, never mind the immorality of it. Smart people don't have to be decent, and they don't have to have common sense either, it seems. Are you actually acknowledging you were wrong?
Again, God save America.You say this, then advocate discarding every fundamental ideal of the United States. Clearly, you have discovered that IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

High-Gear
08-28-2012, 06:45
What you're hinting at obliquely is, you support John Walker Lindh, an American traitor who was caught red-handed fighting with an enemy unit AGAINST American soldiers.

He was fighting to take away our rights. He was trying to kill US troops. That's called treason.

If an American traitor had been caught fighting on the side of the Nazis, there wouldn't have been any debate about giving him all kinds of 'rights' in prison, as if it's like a burger joint where you 'can have it your way'. He would have been tried and executed. That's what should have happened to this traitor, but today our society has rotted from within by leftists and too many people's lack of will to do what's right.

God save America.

No, what I was blatently saying is YOU are representative of the same extreme fundamentalist ideology as the Taliban, just with a different god.

Why do you work so hard to try to paint me as being a supporter of Islam. If I disagree with you, I'm a supporter of Jihad. Guess what? You sir are not representative of the spirit of America. You represent what this country was founded against. You represent Religious Fanatic Tyrany.

snowbird
08-28-2012, 06:49
You ... advocate discarding every fundamental ideal of the United States.

Says the toady for Islam.

Newsflash: our Constitution does not require that we allow unlimited Muslim immigration, with its predictable result of liberty-ending sharia tyranny, as a "fundamental ideal".

dbcooper
08-28-2012, 06:55
They were free at one time. Now they are not.

The prison system is in charge of how much of anything they get. That includes religion.

Jail has got to suck or we would all go.


.

This.

It's not like they can't pray, they just can't do it as a group.

Part of being caught is losing certian rights, and the right to assemble is the first to go, hence the cells

snowbird
08-28-2012, 08:01
YOU are representative of the same extreme fundamentalist ideology as the Taliban, just with a different god.

Why do you work so hard to try to paint me as being a supporter of Islam.

You are parroting the false "moral equivalency" argument, which claims that "Christianity is just as bad as Islam". As of today, Islam has launched 19,508 deadly terror attacks just since 9/11, while in the same time frame, Christianity has launched zero. Saying Christianity is a terrorist political cult just as Islam is, is a lie. No matter how many times you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple.

The truth is, Christianity gave the world a Neil Armstrong who rode a rocket to the moon and back. Islam is still giving the world rocket attacks on civilians. Professor of Political Science at Port Said University, Gamal Zahran, says, "By next year, Allah willing, Israel will be annihilated".

Making false moral equivalency arguments helps enable (supports) Islamosupremacism, which is waging jihad warfare against us. This is not rocket science. If you don't want to be "painted as a supporter of Islam", then stop supporting Islam.

Animal Mother
08-28-2012, 10:15
Says the toady for Islam. Says the consistently dishonest participant in the discussion.
Newsflash: our Constitution does not require that we allow unlimited Muslim immigration, with its predictable result of liberty-ending sharia tyranny, as a "fundamental ideal".
Newsflash: No one is claiming the Constitution requires unlimited Muslim immigration.

snowbird
08-28-2012, 13:34
Says the consistently dishonest participant in the discussion.

Newsflash: No one is claiming the Constitution requires unlimited Muslim immigration.

For a non-Muslim, you sure do a lot of takiyya. Oh, I forgot; lefties are licensed to lie as well.:upeyes:

While you've been busy slandering counterjihadists, your peaceful Muslims have increased their total number of deadly attacks, just since 9/11, to 19,512.

Proud of your dhimmitude now?

You sound like Islamosupremacist Turkey. A Turkish parliamentarian has now accused the French government of 'hate speech' for mentioning the Armenian Genocide in textbooks. Just like Animal Mother calling Snowbird a "hater" for mentioning the Armenian Genocide, in which Muslims murdered 1.5 million innocent Christian men, women, and children.

Guess what; our Constitution doesn't endorse events such as the Armenian Genocide under the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause, no matter what you may think. And since you claim that I "advocate discarding every fundamental ideal of the U.S.", how about you list a half dozen or so of said ideals that you think I want to discard?

Thanks in advance.

Roering
08-28-2012, 13:54
American Taliban seeks group prayer in Ind. prison
http://news.yahoo.com/american-taliban-seeks-group-prayer-ind-prison-171224890.html

As far as I'm concerned that scumbag gave up his rights when he aided the Taliban in their efforts to fight us.

Altaris
08-28-2012, 13:59
The truth is, Christianity gave the world a Neil Armstrong who rode a rocket to the moon and back. Islam is still giving the world rocket attacks on civilians. Professor of Political Science at Port Said University, Gamal Zahran, says, "By next year, Allah willing, Israel will be annihilated".


Science gave the world heroes like Neil Armstrong and the ability for us to travel into space, not Christianity. Science is able to accomplish great feats in spite of religion, not because of it.

If Christian fundamentalists were left unchecked they would be covering up the women, punishing people with their morality police, and would be dragging us back to the caves, just like Islam.

High-Gear
08-28-2012, 15:00
You are parroting the false "moral equivalency" argument, which claims that "Christianity is just as bad as Islam". As of today, Islam has launched 19,508 deadly terror attacks just since 9/11, while in the same time frame, Christianity has launched zero. Saying Christianity is a terrorist political cult just as Islam is, is a lie. No matter how many times you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple.

The truth is, Christianity gave the world a Neil Armstrong who rode a rocket to the moon and back. Islam is still giving the world rocket attacks on civilians. Professor of Political Science at Port Said University, Gamal Zahran, says, "By next year, Allah willing, Israel will be annihilated".

Making false moral equivalency arguments helps enable (supports) Islamosupremacism, which is waging jihad warfare against us. This is not rocket science. If you don't want to be "painted as a supporter of Islam", then stop supporting Islam.

I said you are a fanatic. Again just because I don't agree with you does not mean I support islam. I just don't want to live in Snowbirdistan.

Roering
08-28-2012, 17:29
Science gave the world heroes like Neil Armstrong

Who was a practicing Lutheran.

Gunhaver
08-28-2012, 18:00
I just don't want to live in Snowbirdistan.

:rofl::supergrin::rofl:

Gunhaver
08-28-2012, 18:17
Who was a practicing Lutheran.

Gee, what are the odds that a person willing to climb on top of a Saturn V rocket and ask them to light it up in the year 1969 would maybe be a person of faith? :rofl:

Did Neil do it all on his own? I wonder just how good of a rocket scientist Neil Armstrong was. I'm pretty sure that the process of getting someone to the moon and back with slide rulers could be considered a greater accomplishment than simply stepping of the ladder and saying a few memorable words.

But you raise a good point. Do we give the credit for every great scientific discovery to the religion of the person that made said discovery? If so I'm positive that the "religion" of atheism is way out in front by now.

Be ready to get your scroll on... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology

Vic Hays
08-28-2012, 18:19
If Christian fundamentalists were left unchecked they would be covering up the women, punishing people with their morality police, and would be dragging us back to the caves, just like Islam.

Maybe I can educate you a little here on some nuances of religion.

Islam is both religion and government rolled up into one and intends to rule the world.

Some christianity is also in favor of controlling politics and ruling the world.

Jesus second temptation by satan was politics and ruling the world:

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
4:6 And the devil said to him, All this power will I give you, and the glory of them: for that is delivered to me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
4:7 If you therefore will worship me, all shall be yours.

So you can see that religions that are in to ruling over men are fallen for the power trip and are working against God.

This church is seen as being unfaithful to God and controling the nations.

The apostate churches also shed the blood of true Christians. She is sitting on the beast that represents the kingdoms of this world.

Revelation 17:6 I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered with great amazement.
17:7 The angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

NMG26
08-28-2012, 19:03
This church is seen as being unfaithful to God and controling the nations.

The apostate churches also shed the blood of true Christians. She is sitting on the beast that represents the kingdoms of this world.

Revelation 17:6 I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints

I am starting to understand SDA theology. It is all about the end times. The end of the world is coming. God's apocalypse.

Stop drinking that cool aid.

God is not going to step in and bring your interpretation of Revelation to pass. If you don't have faith in the world that is, you can do little to make it a better place. A theology that's main focus is on the end, has lost faith in the world that is.

Thomas Jefferson on Revelation:
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it and I then considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

Kingarthurhk
08-28-2012, 19:49
I am starting to understand SDA theology. It is all about the end times. The end of the world is coming. God's apocalypse.

Stop drinking that cool aid.

God is not going to step in and bring your interpretation of Revelation to pass. If you don't have faith in the world that is, you can do little to make it a better place. A theology that's main focus is on the end, has lost faith in the world that is.

Thomas Jefferson on Revelation:
[/B]

I would rather drink that cool aid than live in deception and attempt to deceive others. What you are saying is not from God.

NMG26
08-28-2012, 20:09
I would rather drink that cool aid than live in deception and attempt to deceive others. What you are saying is not from God.

I know Art,

You would rather bring other into the great deception, because you believe from your heart that it is true. It is a teaching based in fear. Many fear that maybe, just maybe, this radical interpretation of Revelation is true, so they put their faith in God. Where is the love Art?



.

IhRedrider
08-28-2012, 21:34
When the SHTF one snowbird will be worth more than hundreds of those unwilling to stand for what is right. I may not wish to live in snowbirdistan, but I would be honored to share a border with snowbirdistan.

Animal Mother
08-28-2012, 21:44
For a non-Muslim, you sure do a lot of takiyya. Oh, I forgot; lefties are licensed to lie as well.:upeyes: You've made this accusation a number of times before. You've been challenged to defend it. You have always failed to do so. That makes it fairly clear who is being dishonest.
While you've been busy slandering counterjihadists, your peaceful Muslims have increased their total number of deadly attacks, just since 9/11, to 19,512. I'm not slandering anyone. Calling you dishonest when you consistently engage in dishonest tactics isn't slander, it's accurate.
Just like Animal Mother calling Snowbird a "hater" for mentioning the Armenian Genocide, in which Muslims murdered 1.5 million innocent Christian men, women, and children. Where did I do this? A link to the post will be fine.
Guess what; our Constitution doesn't endorse events such as the Armenian Genocide under the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause, no matter what you may think. Where did I say it does? A link to the post will be fine.
And since you claim that I "advocate discarding every fundamental ideal of the U.S.", how about you list a half dozen or so of said ideals that you think I want to discard? You mean actually back my accusations with evidence? That's just crazy enough to work. You should try it sometime.


Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Assembly
The Right of a person to be secure in their person
The right to due process
Equality
Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness

Thanks in advance.You're most welcome. Now before you wander off on some new tirade, why don't you try actually defending your claims for a change?

Animal Mother
08-28-2012, 21:46
When the SHTF one snowbird will be worth more than hundreds of those unwilling to stand for what is right. I may not wish to live in snowbirdistan, but I would be honored to share a border with snowbirdistan.When the SHTF, snowbird will be pulling on his brown shirt and helping round up all the different people to put them into camps. Assuming, that is, he isn't hiding under the bed or in his basement.

High-Gear
08-29-2012, 02:24
Maybe I can educate you a little here on some nuances of religion.

Islam is both religion and government rolled up into one and intends to rule the world.

Some christianity is also in favor of controlling politics and ruling the world.

Jesus second temptation by satan was politics and ruling the world:

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
4:6 And the devil said to him, All this power will I give you, and the glory of them: for that is delivered to me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
4:7 If you therefore will worship me, all shall be yours.

So you can see that religions that are in to ruling over men are fallen for the power trip and are working against God.

This church is seen as being unfaithful to God and controling the nations.

The apostate churches also shed the blood of true Christians. She is sitting on the beast that represents the kingdoms of this world.

Revelation 17:6 I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered with great amazement.
17:7 The angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


interesting. If Jesus was indeed god, didn't he create all of what Satan was tempting him with? Does that make sense. At any rate, god claims to be omnipotent, so how can he be tempted with mere worldly power. Then again we see how god acts with power by reading the old testament. He is prone to fits like a child, killing people for really minor things (like sending a bear to kill 30 children for making fun of a bald man). The biggie is bringing a flood and killing almost every living thing on the planet. What a temper tantrem.

snowbird
08-29-2012, 03:49
Science gave the world heroes like Neil Armstrong and the ability for us to travel into space...

...and Christianity gave us science. Ask Sir Isaac Newton and many others.

Or do you think it was just a coincidence that science and technology developed in Christendom and nowhere else, least of all in Islam?

Animal Mother
08-29-2012, 04:13
...and Christianity gave us science. Ask Sir Isaac Newton and many others. How about we ask Aristotle and Archimedes?

What uniquely Christian aspect was there to Newton's work?
Or do you think it was just a coincidence that science and technology developed in Christendom and nowhere else, least of all in Islam? You really need to study actual history. Names like Jabir ibn Hayyan, Shen Gua, and Mu’ayyad al-Din al-’Urdi might change your mind. Though I doubt it for obvious reasons.

eracer
08-29-2012, 04:29
Anyone who watched the RNC Convention last night saw the praise and worship (along with the requisite 'Stoned on Jesus' hand waving) of our new moral guardian, Mitt Romney. The 'Born Again' vibe was almost suffocating. But hey, there's a place for religion in government, right? After, our money does say, "In God We Trust." Shame we can't trust the politicians who spend ours.

dbcooper
08-29-2012, 07:53
...and Christianity gave us science. Ask Sir Isaac Newton and many others.

Or do you think it was just a coincidence that science and technology developed in Christendom and nowhere else, least of all in Islam?

In the early years Islam was a gold mine of science and forward thinking at a time when Christians were put on trial by the church for proving the earth was not the center of the universe among others.

You can have your own opinions, not your own facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world#Medieval_Islamic_science
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age#Islamic_Golden_Age

Altaris
08-29-2012, 08:32
...and Christianity gave us science. Ask Sir Isaac Newton and many others.

Or do you think it was just a coincidence that science and technology developed in Christendom and nowhere else, least of all in Islam?

Algebra and Algorithm are based on Islamic words. Most of the named stars have Islamic names, because they were the ones to discover them. It wasn't until some religious leader(can't remember the name right now) declared that manipulation of numbers was the work of the devil. Since that time Islam has gone back into the caves and has never recovered.

Isaac Newton and others had to declared their beliefs, otherwise they would have been persecuted and possibly killed. They tried to invoke god when they came to the end of their knowledge because they weren't sure what else to do. Someone else would then come along and pick up where they left off, and discover scientifically, what people previously claimed god did.

God is just an ever receding pocket of scientific knowledge.

Vic Hays
08-29-2012, 08:33
interesting. If Jesus was indeed god, didn't he create all of what Satan was tempting him with? Does that make sense. At any rate, god claims to be omnipotent, so how can he be tempted with mere worldly power.

God did not create the nations of the world . He allowed men to build them and as the prince of this world God allowed satan to use his principles and politics to run them.

Jesus was God, but not the fullness of God. He was God in the form of a man emptied of His glory.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took on him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to death, even the death of the cross.

Roering
08-29-2012, 12:22
Gee, what are the odds that a person willing to climb on top of a Saturn V rocket and ask them to light it up in the year 1969 would maybe be a person of faith? :rofl:

Did Neil do it all on his own? I wonder just how good of a rocket scientist Neil Armstrong was. I'm pretty sure that the process of getting someone to the moon and back with slide rulers could be considered a greater accomplishment than simply stepping of the ladder and saying a few memorable words.

But you raise a good point. Do we give the credit for every great scientific discovery to the religion of the person that made said discovery? If so I'm positive that the "religion" of atheism is way out in front by now.

Be ready to get your scroll on... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology

Well, if you really want to make a contest out of it....mines bigger :tongueout:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric%E2%80%93scientists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science

snowbird
08-29-2012, 16:46
In the early years Islam was a gold mine of science and forward thinking

Islam itself was not much of a foundation for science. There is evidence that what science they had came from non-Muslims who served their Muslim masters. There may have been a brief time when Islamic culture was more advanced than Europeans, but that was when Muslims could draw on, and perhaps advance the achievements of, Byzantines and Persians. After they had taken what they could from these conquered lands, and after many of the Jews and Christians had been converted, Islam went into stagnation, where it pretty much remains.

The Dome of the Rock mosque (7th century) was not only copied from Byzantine architecture, it was built by Byzantine craftsmen. And the astrolabe had been developed before Mohammed. "Arabic numerals" actually originated in pre-Islamic India. A Muslim mathematician, al-Khwarizmi, 780-850, influenced Europeans with his book on algebra, but it derived from Hindu works. And the Europeans used algebra to make advances while the Muslims did not. Why? One answer is Europe's intellectual traditions which the Islamic world lacked. Christians were relatively open to science and philosophy -look at Saint Albert the Great, 1206-1280, patron saint of scientists, who wrote 40 books on the natural sciences and argued that "experiment is the only safe guide" when it comes to science. He was the first man ever to accurately describe a Greenland whale (he had gone on a boat to see for himself).

In contrast, Muslims are told to memorize the Koran. It is the "perfect book", so no other book is needed. And Islamic society is the perfect civilization, so they need no knowledge from any other source, least of all from infidels. Figuratively at least, Allah killed science.



Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, was a Christian, and a great mathematician (discovered the binomial theorem and calculus), discovered the laws of gravitation, and the composite nature of light. He was also fluent in ancient languages.

He also read the Bible daily throughout his life. He believed everyone should read the Bible for the universal truths it contains. We should listen to this wise man; he proved science and Christian belief are compatible.

snowbird
08-29-2012, 18:03
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Assembly
The Right of a person to be secure in their person
The right to due process
Equality
Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness



How does stopping any more foreign Muslim immigration deny anyone in America, including American Muslims, any of the above? You already acknowledged that our Constitution does require us to allow unlimited Muslim immigration, which would end in us losing our freedom and being subjected to sharia tyranny.

snowbird
08-29-2012, 18:07
Most of the named stars have Islamic names, because they were the ones to discover them.

Have you ever been in the desert at night?

The constellations, planets and individual stars are easier to observe there than in cloudier places, such as Europe. The Arabian Penninsula is desert, with clear skies almost every night.

Altaris
08-29-2012, 19:06
Have you ever been in the desert at night?

The constellations, planets and individual stars are easier to observe there than in cloudier places, such as Europe. The Arabian Penninsula is desert, with clear skies almost every night.

So you are saying the Christians would have discovered if first if the clouds would have just moved out of their way? Maybe they weren't praying enough.


How is the view from snowbirdistan?

High-Gear
08-29-2012, 19:49
So you are saying the Christians would have discovered if first if the clouds would have just moved out of their way? Maybe they weren't praying enough.


How is the view from snowbirdistan?

There are no clouds in Snowbirdistan. You see clouds are caused by moisture which would lead to the potential of rain, and "rainbows". Now everyone knows rainbows are the symbol of homosexuality, therefore they have been banned in Snowbirdistan. :supergrin:

Animal Mother
08-29-2012, 19:59
How does stopping any more foreign Muslim immigration deny anyone in America, including American Muslims, any of the above? You only oppose Muslim immigration? You no longer support a ban on building mosques, the expulsion of Muslim citizens, or surveillance of Muslims in the US?
You already acknowledged that our Constitution does require us to allow unlimited Muslim immigration, which would end in us losing our freedom and being subjected to sharia tyranny. No, I didn't acknowledge any such thing. In fact, I acknowledged the exact opposite.

Animal Mother
08-29-2012, 20:03
Islam itself was not much of a foundation for science. Nor is any other religion.
In contrast, Muslims are told to memorize the Koran. It is the "perfect book", so no other book is needed. And Islamic society is the perfect civilization, so they need no knowledge from any other source, least of all from infidels. Figuratively at least, Allah killed science.
Based on past experience, I know this is pointless but I'll ask anyway. Do you have any reference for these claims?
Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, was a Christian, and a great mathematician (discovered the binomial theorem and calculus), discovered the laws of gravitation, and the composite nature of light. He was also fluent in ancient languages.

He also read the Bible daily throughout his life. He believed everyone should read the Bible for the universal truths it contains. We should listen to this wise man; he proved science and Christian belief are compatible. All of Newton's work was dependent on earlier pagan philosophers and mathematicians, including both Muslims and Hindus. As for the Bible reference, what did Newton use from the Bible to form the foundation of any of his physical discoveries?

snowbird
08-30-2012, 06:48
No, I didn't acknowledge any such thing. In fact, I acknowledged the exact opposite.

Oh, so now you're back to saying that our Constitution DOES require us to allow unlimited Muslim immigration which would end in us losing our freedom and being subjected to sharia tyranny?

Please cite the applicable Constitutional clause(s).

Animal Mother
08-30-2012, 06:55
You already acknowledged that our Constitution does require us to allow unlimited Muslim immigration, which would end in us losing our freedom and being subjected to sharia tyranny.

Oh, so now you're back to saying that our Constitution DOES require us to allow unlimited Muslim immigration which would end in us losing our freedom and being subjected to sharia tyranny? Am I missing something? You appear to think that my maintaining the same position somehow contradicts itself. It's odd that you're constantly going on about other's reading comprehension.

dbcooper
08-30-2012, 08:01
Islam itself was not much of a foundation for science. There is evidence that what science they had came from non-Muslims who served their Muslim masters. There may have been a brief time when Islamic culture was more advanced than Europeans, but that was when Muslims could draw on, and perhaps advance the achievements of, Byzantines and Persians. After they had taken what they could from these conquered lands, and after many of the Jews and Christians had been converted, Islam went into stagnation, where it pretty much remains.

The Dome of the Rock mosque (7th century) was not only copied from Byzantine architecture, it was built by Byzantine craftsmen. And the astrolabe had been developed before Mohammed. "Arabic numerals" actually originated in pre-Islamic India. A Muslim mathematician, al-Khwarizmi, 780-850, influenced Europeans with his book on algebra, but it derived from Hindu works. And the Europeans used algebra to make advances while the Muslims did not. Why? One answer is Europe's intellectual traditions which the Islamic world lacked. Christians were relatively open to science and philosophy -look at Saint Albert the Great, 1206-1280, patron saint of scientists, who wrote 40 books on the natural sciences and argued that "experiment is the only safe guide" when it comes to science. He was the first man ever to accurately describe a Greenland whale (he had gone on a boat to see for himself).

In contrast, Muslims are told to memorize the Koran. It is the "perfect book", so no other book is needed. And Islamic society is the perfect civilization, so they need no knowledge from any other source, least of all from infidels. Figuratively at least, Allah killed science.



Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, was a Christian, and a great mathematician (discovered the binomial theorem and calculus), discovered the laws of gravitation, and the composite nature of light. He was also fluent in ancient languages.

He also read the Bible daily throughout his life. He believed everyone should read the Bible for the universal truths it contains. We should listen to this wise man; he proved science and Christian belief are compatible.

The bolded section is the issue. That was not true in the early years, that is a problem with what it has become over the centuries based on intepretations by fundies.

Early on Islam gave women rights. It entitled the to inherit along wih male family members, it gave them the right to divorce, etc., etc.

Then based on "going out modestly" the fundies come up with burkas.

None of the major religions corner the market on good or bad. They have all had some of both done in their name by some of their followers, Why not simply admit it?

snowbird
08-30-2012, 08:15
Am I missing something?


Yes, quite a lot, actually. Virtues such as honesty. And commonsense. And American patriotism, just off the top of my head.

The Alinskyite 'Rules For Radicals' crowd, who are busting their tails right now to facilitate sharia here, demand "Diversity for thee, but not for me". "Liberal" hypocrisy in action can be seen, besides in Animal Mother's posts, in such places as Stockholm, Sweden, where "multicultural" politicians choose to live in MONOCULTURAL, pure Swedish neighborhoods, and shy away from (Muslim) immigrant-packed low-income areas on the wrong side of the tracks.

Of course, the insanely short-sighted problem here is, by continuing mass Muslim immigration, eventually there will be no more old-fashioned, safe, Swedish neighborhoods left. It'll be one big Beirut with Islamic criminal gangs, burning cars, stone-throwing (or worse) against the police, firefighters, and ambulances, qat-chewing, and the rape of white girls.


But don't expect Christophobic, common-sense-challenged leftist 'elites' to figure any of this out before our society has fallen like Rome's, and we're locked into the head-chopping-and-stoning society of sharia barbarians.

snowbird
08-30-2012, 08:44
None of the major religions corner the market on good or bad. They have all had some of both done in their name by some of their followers, Why not simply admit it?

Today's total of deadly terror attacks since 9/11 has reached 19,525. According to your reasoning, a huge of them should have been done by Christians, another huge number should have been done by atheists/agnostics, with quite a few also done by Hindus, Sikhs, Daoists, Buddhists, Jews, etc. But, in reality, ALL of them were done by Muslims.

One nutty idea shot down. What's your follow-up suggestion? That we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya?

Animal Mother
08-30-2012, 11:19
Yes, quite a lot, actually. Virtues such as honesty. And commonsense. And American patriotism, just off the top of my head. That's amusing. Given the opportunity to admit you'd made an error, you not only fail to do so, you launch yet another completely unrelated attack. The only shared characteristic being your continued habit of completely baseless insults and accusations. Goebbels would be proud.

dbcooper
08-31-2012, 06:55
Today's total of deadly terror attacks since 9/11 has reached 19,525. According to your reasoning, a huge of them should have been done by Christians, another huge number should have been done by atheists/agnostics, with quite a few also done by Hindus, Sikhs, Daoists, Buddhists, Jews, etc. But, in reality, ALL of them were done by Muslims.

One nutty idea shot down. What's your follow-up suggestion? That we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya?


You won't see me defending the way it is now and by your reasoning in all of history the religion you follow has never been responsible for anything ever and if there was some killing and conversion by the sword and an outright endorsment of slavery , etc. etc. that it's ok because that was then and these guys are doing evil now.

Neither has cornered the market on good or bad, for ALL have sinned if you will. Why is that impossible or you to admit?

snowbird
08-31-2012, 08:44
ALL have sinned ... Why is that impossible or you to admit?

Bless you for quoting the Bible, but where did you get the false idea that I refuse to admit such? Yes, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But some are following a 'religion' whose founder was a pedophile, caravan robber, anti-Semite, slave-taker and owner, and mass-beheader of whole tribes who refused to convert...pretty sinful, wouldn't you agree? This 'prophet' is held up as a shining example of "the perfect man" whose behavior all of them are supposed to follow to this very day. So, naturally, this religion is going to have more bad guys than the other religion whose leader preached and practiced peace, love, and healing.

Need some illustrations?

French TV reports that "youths" (a leftist euphemism for young Muslim thugs), emulating their prophet, are using police for target practice in Grigny, a suburb south of Paris. Three officers were sent to hospital last night. No Christians have done this.

In Berlin, Muslim "youths" beat up a rabbi and threatened his 6 year-old daughter. No Christians have done this.

In Malmo, Sweden, Muslim "youths" set fire to 5 more cars last night. No Christians have done this.

In Australia, Somalians and Sudanese (Muslims) immigrants are responsible for an overwhelmingly disproportionate number of crimes in their adopted home. Christians don't do this.

In Pakistan, a Muslim just murdered his MOTHER AND 4 SISTERS because he suspected them of "having illicit relations with some men in the neighborhood". Muslims (not Christians) commit 91% of honor killings worldwide.

Christians are being murdered wholesale by Muslims around the world, yet they are refused refugee status here. But Muslim 'refugee' immigration goes on unimpeded. When an Arizona Republican Congressional candidate correctly notes that Muslim Middle Easterners are crossing ILLEGALLY into the US from Mexico, intent on harming Americans, leftist traitors generate all kinds of shock and outrage against her.:steamed:

It is nonsensical to claim moral equivalence between Islam and Christianity. Doing so assists the jihad war being waged against us. You don't really want to be on the wrong side, do you?

Brucev
08-31-2012, 09:09
American Taliban seeks group prayer in Ind. prison
http://news.yahoo.com/american-taliban-seeks-group-prayer-ind-prison-171224890.html

Taliban? American or whatever, try them, convict them, then apply rule .40 to them one and all. They are terrorists. That is all the justice they deserve.

As to their religious freedom, if they meet only for worship led by a inmate, fine. No access to outside individuals unless they are first cleared by the prison administration, exactly the same process applied to any normal minister of any church who wants to minister within a prison.

dbcooper
08-31-2012, 11:30
Bless you for quoting the Bible, but where did you get the false idea that I refuse to admit such? Yes, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But some are following a 'religion' whose founder was a pedophile, caravan robber, anti-Semite, slave-taker and owner, and mass-beheader of whole tribes who refused to convert...pretty sinful, wouldn't you agree? This 'prophet' is held up as a shining example of "the perfect man" whose behavior all of them are supposed to follow to this very day. So, naturally, this religion is going to have more bad guys than the other religion whose leader preached and practiced peace, love, and healing.

Need some illustrations?

French TV reports that "youths" (a leftist euphemism for young Muslim thugs), emulating their prophet, are using police for target practice in Grigny, a suburb south of Paris. Three officers were sent to hospital last night. No Christians have done this.

In Berlin, Muslim "youths" beat up a rabbi and threatened his 6 year-old daughter. No Christians have done this.

In Malmo, Sweden, Muslim "youths" set fire to 5 more cars last night. No Christians have done this.

In Australia, Somalians and Sudanese (Muslims) immigrants are responsible for an overwhelmingly disproportionate number of crimes in their adopted home. Christians don't do this.

In Pakistan, a Muslim just murdered his MOTHER AND 4 SISTERS because he suspected them of "having illicit relations with some men in the neighborhood". Muslims (not Christians) commit 91% of honor killings worldwide.

Christians are being murdered wholesale by Muslims around the world, yet they are refused refugee status here. But Muslim 'refugee' immigration goes on unimpeded. When an Arizona Republican Congressional candidate correctly notes that Muslim Middle Easterners are crossing ILLEGALLY into the US from Mexico, intent on harming Americans, leftist traitors generate all kinds of shock and outrage against her.:steamed:

It is nonsensical to claim moral equivalence between Islam and Christianity. Doing so assists the jihad war being waged against us. You don't really want to be on the wrong side, do you?


This whole conversation started based on your belief that Islam had nothing to do with science, not about moral equivalence. That is what my "neither has cornered the market on good or bad, each has done some of both." was about, that under Islam early on science thrived. It just happened to coincide with a time when scientific advance was blasphemy to the Christian church. Now the worm has turned so to speak.

It is possible to admit that and not be part of the Islamic intifada.

As far as which side I'm on, that's easy. Mine. Anyone trying to force me to bow to their beliefs is due a bullet to the brain. No exceptions.

NMG26
08-31-2012, 11:42
As far as which side I'm on, that's easy. Mine. Anyone trying to force me to bow to their beliefs is due a bullet to the brain. No exceptions.

Quoted for awesomeness.



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