Holy craptastic! Underwood 147gr +P+ [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ABNAK
08-28-2012, 17:52
Anyone see Tnoutdoors9 video of the Underwood 147gr +P+ Gold Dot yet? It looks to be from the last few days. Averaged 1153fps :wow: and expanded to .79"! Now, as some of you may know I'm not a huge Gold Dot fan......however, this test may have me seeing the light with Underwood GD loads.

Penetration was ~ 12.5" IIRC.

dkf
08-28-2012, 18:32
Yeah I would say that load did well. I figured it may penetrate a tad more than what it did however 1225fps is getting at the upper window for that bullet design.

ABNAK
08-28-2012, 19:07
Yeah I would say that load did well. I figured it may penetrate a tad more than what it did however 1225fps is getting at the upper window for that bullet design.

It actually did 1153fps from his Glock 19. The 124gr +P+ Underwood load penetrated ~ .5" more, but didn't expand anywhere near as wide.

Conundrum: I'm a civvie CCW person, not LEO. I don't expect to have to shoot through auto glass or car doors. A thread going here now has shown personally witnessed failures of 9mm, most of which (but not all) involved lack of penetrating the above mentioned obstacles from what I assume to be LEO scenarios. I don't think a 147gr GS going 1153fps is going to fail like a similar load going 200fps less in penetration. Now, as a civvie CCW I *shouldn't* have to shoot through those obstacles, but you never know......

So, if you were gonna carry one of these Underwood loads, which would it be from a CCW point of view?

9mm +p+
08-28-2012, 19:08
I'll stick with my 124+p+'s thanks, expansion was close and the 124 went deeper.

ABNAK
08-28-2012, 19:10
I'll stick with my 124+p+'s thanks, expansion was close and the 124 went deeper.


I know you hate 147's but ya gotta admit that thing was impressive.

Tiro Fijo
08-28-2012, 19:27
...but ya gotta admit that thing was impressive.


It is, however the accolades really belong at the feet of the Speer engineers who have designed the Gold Dot so well that it has a very large window of expansion & is very ductile.

dkf
08-28-2012, 19:29
So, if you were gonna carry one of these Underwood loads, which would it be from a CCW point of view?

124gr GD +P+

Pretty much the same penetration as the 147gr +P+ but with a larger damage path. Of course I am a fan of the .357sig 125gr loads so......

unit1069
08-28-2012, 19:34
This is why I have been talking up the potential of 147-grain in .357sig. With the right bullet design that weight is ideal for that caliber and it wouldn't beat up the pistol like the +P+ does in 9mm caliber.

tnoutdoors says, "Take your pick ... " Well right now I'll stick with the various standard and +P rounds in 9mm that provide twice as large a stretch cavity (from his own tests) with somewhat greater penetration.

That said, this is the first heavy-for-caliber 9mm that has caught my attention. Like tn mentioned, velocity brings out the potential in 9mm rounds, within certain parameters of course.

ABNAK
08-29-2012, 06:44
This is why I have been talking up the potential of 147-grain in .357sig.


Yep, kick one up to about 1250fps and watch it fizz!

gatorboy
08-29-2012, 08:05
This is why I have been talking up the potential of 147-grain in .357sig. With the right bullet design that weight is ideal for that caliber and it wouldn't beat up the pistol like the +P+ does in 9mm caliber.


Federal has/had that bonded 135 gr. .355 bullet. I always thought that may be perfect for the 357auto. I think the S&B 140 TMJ's are great for a spare mag in the truck. It's only 50 FPS slower than factory 125 TMJ's.

unit1069
08-31-2012, 12:12
Federal has/had that bonded 135 gr. .355 bullet. I always thought that may be perfect for the 357auto. I think the S&B 140 TMJ's are great for a spare mag in the truck. It's only 50 FPS slower than factory 125 TMJ's.

I agree. I have some of the 9mm 135-grain Tactical Bonded +P ammo I sometimes carry during the winter. I wonder if a .357sig version would have the Speer shallow cup bullet design of the Gold Dot.

I also have 10 rounds of the excellent S&B 140-grain TC rounds I keep loaded in my G-23 10-round magazine for woods carry. That weight bullet would also make an excellent JHP self-defense round. Just about any 125 - 165 round bullet weight would give a lot of fine .357sig ammo options, in my opinion.

Of course, I could always buy a G-23 barrel and shoot .40S&W for more bullet weight options but I've never shot a .40S&W pistol I like. I understand the Steyr M40-A1 might change my mind, but then I'd have to buy a pistol I don't need in a caliber I don't want at the present time.

dkf
08-31-2012, 12:56
Fingers crossed that S&B will start selling those 140gr TC bullets in bulk here in the states. They offer primers currently. I see they have components including bullets listed on their site, I just have not found anyone selling them yet.

PghJim
09-01-2012, 11:59
tnoutdoors9 seems to say when he is testing the Underwood 124gr. GD +p+ that the damage is what he is seeing for standard service rounds. So I went back to the video on the Speer 124gr. +p and the damage track for the Underwood is significantly greater than the Speer factory round, as you would expect it to be. He is very honest and I was wondering why he played that down.

NEOH212
09-02-2012, 02:23
I guess the only way the engineers can get the 9mm to actually perform is to push it beyond what it was designed to do in the first place! :rofl:

The . 40 and .45 can do everything the 9mm can do and in most cases, do it better without breaking a sweat.

Nine is fine but I'll still stick with calibers that start with a four. At least in a semi-auto.

uz2bUSMC
09-02-2012, 08:43
The . 40 and .45 can do everything the 9mm can do and in most cases, do it better without breaking a sweat.



I don't know if anyone has told you, but you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

TWS G26
09-03-2012, 09:09
tnoutdoors9 seems to say when he is testing the Underwood 124gr. GD +p+ that the damage is what he is seeing for standard service rounds. So I went back to the video on the Speer 124gr. +p and the damage track for the Underwood is significantly greater than the Speer factory round, as you would expect it to be. He is very honest and I was wondering why he played that down.


Good catch. The damage path on the Underwood round is probably greater due to more expansion, which I have to think might be somewhat unnatural due to the extreme velocity behind it. Relative to the Speer test, yes, this is more damaging, but still within the paradighm of what I see on a weekly basis in these tests. I had "lost my visual" of the path in the Speer test; it wasn't specifically on my mind.

I try not to get too excited about this stuff because everyone runs out the door to buy XYZ ammo when it expands .051 more than their carry ammo. I really want the viewer to make their own decision, and at times I fear that I'm "feeding the beast", sending mixed messages from these results.

uz2bUSMC
09-03-2012, 09:23
Good catch. The damage path on the Underwood round is probably greater due to more expansion, which I have to think might be somewhat unnatural due to the extreme velocity behind it. Relative to the Speer test, yes, this is more damaging, but still within the paradighm of what I see on a weekly basis in these tests. I had "lost my visual" of the path in the Speer test; it wasn't specifically on my mind.

I try not to get too excited about this stuff because everyone runs out the door to buy XYZ ammo when it expands .051 more than their carry ammo. I really want the viewer to make their own decision, and at times I fear that I'm "feeding the beast", sending mixed messages from these results.

Brotha, you are truly genuine. It's good to see that you care about the end user enough to maintain an amount of reserve when sharing your results. Too bad everyone can't be as humble as you are. As always your work is appreciated and so is your humility.

unit1069
09-03-2012, 10:15
I try not to get too excited about this stuff because everyone runs out the door to buy XYZ ammo when it expands .051 more than their carry ammo. I really want the viewer to make their own decision, and at times I fear that I'm "feeding the beast", sending mixed messages from these results.

You've got quite a sizable following because you deliver your opinions based on the results. I tried to send you an email a couple of weeks ago but I don't know if it got through.

Will you by any chance be testing the Fiocchi 115-grain Extrema XTP round in the near future? Many of us have micro 9mm pistols that the manufacturer warns against using +P/+P+ ammo and I've found this to be a very accurate round with a lot of perceived "pop" to it. I would really like to know how your test of the Fiocchi would match up with the standard pressure Speer 115-grain Gold Dot you mentioned "complicates the search" for effective 9mm self-defense ammo. That particular Gold Dot test impressed me a lot. I'll be happy to send you the Fiocchi if you tell me how to properly package the rounds.

Thanks for your ballistics tests as well as other interesting videos.

PghJim
09-03-2012, 14:54
Good catch. The damage path on the Underwood round is probably greater due to more expansion, which I have to think might be somewhat unnatural due to the extreme velocity behind it. Relative to the Speer test, yes, this is more damaging, but still within the paradighm of what I see on a weekly basis in these tests. I had "lost my visual" of the path in the Speer test; it wasn't specifically on my mind.

I try not to get too excited about this stuff because everyone runs out the door to buy XYZ ammo when it expands .051 more than their carry ammo. I really want the viewer to make their own decision, and at times I fear that I'm "feeding the beast", sending mixed messages from these results.

Thank you for responding and all of the good work you do. I have a lot of different all copper rounds with little test data and other 357 sig rounds that has not been tested. If you have any interest at all, please PM me your address and I will send you the ammunition. Jim

SouthernBoyVA
09-05-2012, 13:08
124gr GD +P+

Pretty much the same penetration as the 147gr +P+ but with a larger damage path. Of course I am a fan of the .357sig 125gr loads so......

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is such a load by Gold Dot. If there is, could you supply the 5-digit number for me?

Comedian
09-05-2012, 17:41
I guess the only way the engineers can get the 9mm to actually perform is to push it beyond what it was designed to do in the first place! :rofl:

The . 40 and .45 can do everything the 9mm can do and in most cases, do it better without breaking a sweat.

Nine is fine but I'll still stick with calibers that start with a four. At least in a semi-auto.

Do some research before you put so much faith in your death ray calibers.

dkf
09-05-2012, 18:10
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is such a load by Gold Dot. If there is, could you supply the 5-digit number for me?

Underwood sells 124gr and 147gr 9mm "+P+" loads with the Gold Dot bullets. They are not Speer loads.

klmmicro
09-05-2012, 18:12
Do some research before you put so much faith in your death ray calibers.

Oh yee of little faith, my giant .45 bullet can drop a charging rhino at 200 yards...and that is BEFORE I pull the trigger!

I actually like all three cartridges mentioned; 9mm, .40SW and .45ACP. I like the 10mm Auto as well. I would not feel under-gunned with a hotrodded .355 bullet at all. I do like the fact that I can make IPSC major with a downloaded .45 though. For me, each tool has its own use.

jbglock
09-05-2012, 18:57
Anyone see Tnoutdoors9 video of the Underwood 147gr +P+ Gold Dot yet? It looks to be from the last few days. Averaged 1153fps
Yeah that doesn't sound dangerous. :sarcasm:

I'll ask again and not get an answer again, has Underwood tested any of these loads for pressure?

I just don't get what people are trying to do. If you want something that is going to kick like a 40 then why not get a 40 that does more anyway?

I guess the only way the engineers can get the 9mm to actually perform is to push it beyond what it was designed to do in the first place! :rofl:

The . 40 and .45 can do everything the 9mm can do and in most cases, do it better without breaking a sweat.

Nine is fine but I'll still stick with calibers that start with a four. At least in a semi-auto.
The more I read from you the more I agree except that line of yours about HK. Ignore those wanting to hotrod the 9mm. It's been done forever and isn't a new thing. 20 years ago a friend of mine was easily making major with his own handloads. Of course he was having to actually roll his cases to get more than 2 loads out of them. It was actually kind of funny to me as I was using a 40 cal Glock and a 45acp Les Baer and downloading.

SouthernBoyVA
09-06-2012, 03:59
Underwood sells 124gr and 147gr 9mm "+P+" loads with the Gold Dot bullets. They are not Speer loads.

Okay, I knew that. I was thinking Gold Dot, as in Speer.

Thanks.

SCmasterblaster
09-12-2012, 14:53
I use Winchester's 9mmP 115gr JHP +p+. I have chronoed it at 1400 FPS out of my G17. That's right at 500 foot-pounds of energy out of a 4.49-inch barrel.