I just got fired. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Hussell_Crowe
08-28-2012, 18:50
I worked at a childrens home, as a residential treatment specialist, I greatly enjoyed what I did, and made a genuine effort everyday to improve. My 6 months probationary period was up in October. I just got the call from my supervisor, she stated she simply didnt see improvement in a few area's she was concerned with.

I never was late, didn't call in, attended every training, had a great repoire with co-workers...etc etc

My question is, am I able to put this job on my resume?

I'm honestly in shock right now, because I loved what I did, which is rare these days.....

I hope whoever reads this is having a better day than myself.

Jay9928
08-28-2012, 18:53
Sorry to hear that man. Is your state a right to work state? Az is, basically, you can get fired for any reason at any time.

CanMan
08-28-2012, 18:54
Would the supervisor that terminated you be the one who's contacted by a prospective employer?

Batesmotel
08-28-2012, 18:56
Let me guess. They fire everyone at 5 months to avoid full pay and benefits?

A lot of that going around.

Detectorist
08-28-2012, 18:56
Very sorry to hear that. Keep your chin up, file for unemployment, take a few days off, then get out there and get another job.

Good luck to you.

Tx-SIG229
08-28-2012, 18:57
if you're in texas, why you left doesn't matter and your prior state time should help you get another state job (everyone hired at my agency had prior state service) .

FLGatorFan
08-28-2012, 18:59
She didn't see improvement in your ability to spell rapport. Seriously though, what did she say you needed to fix?

engineer151515
08-28-2012, 19:00
Let me guess. They fire everyone at 5 months to avoid full pay and benefits?

A lot of that going around.

I'm thinking this also.

May not have been you or your performance.

Most sorry.

RedTop
08-28-2012, 19:00
Sorry to hear about this and hope you find a better job/career soon.

In regards to putting this on your resume, you provided little detail about your past. If this is the first job in your field then you can probably get away with marking it down as an internship. If you held similar posts in the past then I would probably skip it.

Out of curiosity, do you think it was office politics?

ETA - Was this a government job?

Wasatch
08-28-2012, 19:08
I just got the call from my supervisor, she stated she simply didnt see improvement in a few area's she was concerned with.

First off, I'm sorry to hear about your day. For what it's worth, I've been in your shoes.

What were these "areas of concern" that your supervisor referenced? And was she right about the lack of improvement, or is there something else going on? (The revolving-door trick to keep benefits costs low, as Bates stated.)

Rick C
08-28-2012, 19:09
My question is, am I able to put this job on my resume?


Forget the resume, post it on the web, Face Book and the refrigerator.:rofl:

Hussell_Crowe
08-28-2012, 19:09
I appreciate everyone's kind words. I'm in Kentucky, which is an at-will state, and the thought of unemployment ( while tempting ) doesn't make me happy. I love helping people, going into work everyday was an opportunity to make an impact in the lives of kids who were severely neglected, I took pride in my job, and was content.

This was my second job in the field of residential treatment, what can I say, it's certainly an odd thing to have a passion for I guess, but I do.

I'd rather not answer the office politics question ;) let's just say all of my co-workers seemingly enjoyed working with me, and they've all texted me with shock and disappointment.

In the 5 months I was there, I at no time was given a write up, or even a verbal warning....I was just told there were " areas " that she didnt seem improvement on, within the 5 month time frame.

I asked if I could use them as a reference, she said the only thing they can answer is whether or not I was employed there, so I assume that was a yes.

fnfalman
08-28-2012, 19:20
Just because it's an "at will" state, it doesn't mean you can simply be terminated. If your termination was based on "areas that needed improvement yet you didn't show improvement", then were you counseled by your supervisor on these "areas that needed improvement"? If you didn't then go to HR and file a complaint. They have no choice but to address your termination. Hell, go to the local goverment and even the Feds.

Huaco Kid
08-28-2012, 19:24
Just because it's an "at will" state, it doesn't mean you can simply be terminated. If your termination was based on "areas that needed improvement yet you didn't show improvement", then were you counseled by your supervisor on these "areas that needed improvement"? If you didn't then go to HR and file a complaint. They have no choice but to address your termination. Hell, go to the local goverment and even the Feds.

"Didn't show improvement during a probationary period."

You're a union guy, huh?

fnfalman
08-28-2012, 19:26
"Didn't show improvement during a probationary period."

You're a union guy, huh?

WTF are you talking about? I'd rather have my sister in a whorehouse than me being in the union.

canis latrans
08-28-2012, 19:27
what were the areas where you needed improvement?

the hiring/training process is such a pain and inefficient, that I doubt they intend to re-hire/re-train every five months, just to avoid bennies.

something else is going on. where did you need improvement?

fnfalman
08-28-2012, 19:28
what were the areas where you needed improvement?

the hiring/training process is such a pain and inefficient, that I doubt they intend to re-hire/re-train every five months, just to avoid bennies.

something else is going on. where did you need improvement?

Like I said before, they can't just terminate you on nebulous reasons. If they claimed that you didn't improve, then they must show records of them counseling you and training you to improve in these deficient area.

jakebrake
08-28-2012, 19:30
I appreciate everyone's kind words. I'm in Kentucky, which is an at-will state, and the thought of unemployment ( while tempting ) doesn't make me happy. I love helping people, going into work everyday was an opportunity to make an impact in the lives of kids who were severely neglected, I took pride in my job, and was content.

This was my second job in the field of residential treatment, what can I say, it's certainly an odd thing to have a passion for I guess, but I do.

I'd rather not answer the office politics question ;) let's just say all of my co-workers seemingly enjoyed working with me, and they've all texted me with shock and disappointment.

In the 5 months I was there, I at no time was given a write up, or even a verbal warning....I was just told there were " areas " that she didnt seem improvement on, within the 5 month time frame.

I asked if I could use them as a reference, she said the only thing they can answer is whether or not I was employed there, so I assume that was a yes.

rtfs are a dying breed, sadly enough. as long as cbh and dhs can ask the world for 2 dollas a day, rtfs are going to continue to go that way.

put it on your resume. everyone in the industry knows whats what.

Adjuster
08-28-2012, 19:44
You were most likely simply culled out. It is common in large organizations or organizations with a high turnover rate that if a new hire is needed a few potential employees be brought in to fill the position. As the probationary period is drawing to a close you simply start eliminating until you are left with your optimum choice of new employee/s. Doesn't mean you were a bad employee, only means that someone may have had a slightly more desirable education or prior work experience then you. As you said this is/was only your second job in the field. The comment above about going to HR and complaining is simply ridiculous. I have never known a job where any reason was needed/necessary/required to let a new employee go during a probationary period.


/

clancy
08-28-2012, 20:21
I appreciate everyone's kind words. I'm in Kentucky, which is an at-will state, and the thought of unemployment ( while tempting ) doesn't make me happy. I love helping people, going into work everyday was an opportunity to make an impact in the lives of kids who were severely neglected, I took pride in my job, and was content.

This was my second job in the field of residential treatment, what can I say, it's certainly an odd thing to have a passion for I guess, but I do.

I'd rather not answer the office politics question ;) let's just say all of my co-workers seemingly enjoyed working with me, and they've all texted me with shock and disappointment.

In the 5 months I was there, I at no time was given a write up, or even a verbal warning....I was just told there were " areas " that she didnt seem improvement on, within the 5 month time frame.

I asked if I could use them as a reference, she said the only thing they can answer is whether or not I was employed there, so I assume that was a yes.

Having worked in the Human Services field for years, I have seen this happen dozens of times. You may have been too good at your job and made her feel insecure, you may have not been what she considered a "perfect fit", you may have said something entirely innocuos that she hated. I have seen all that and more. Some of those in supervisory positions are the most hyper-anal retentative buttwads I have ever met. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back at it.

ChuteTheMall
08-28-2012, 20:34
I hope whoever reads this is having a better day than myself.

I am.

I wouldn't keep an employee who displayed the fact that they supported Obama/Biden.

Something to consider on your next job, assuming you remain in the labor force.

By all means list them on your resume, there's not much they can say, and it's better than a gap in employment.

cowboywannabe
08-28-2012, 20:50
WTF are you talking about? I'd rather have my sister in a whorehouse than me being in the union.

same same....:whistling:

canis latrans
08-28-2012, 20:52
I wouldn't keep an employee who displayed the fact that they supported Obama/Biden.

that was kind of my first thought, too. I mean, I can see getting caught up in the hype in 2008. I can NOT understand being dumb enough to support that team after SEEING what they did over the last 3 1/2 years. that is, unless you're a communist yourself.

in any event, my SECOND thought was: no, I would NOT fire you just for that...(have to have at least ONE Obama supporter gainfully employed, don't we?)

NMG26
08-28-2012, 21:01
If you put it on your resume be ready to talk about why you had to leave.

I've lost 3 Jobs in the last 4 years. It hurts. I always went out and got a Job pretty much the same day. In that time I also quit two jobs. One was for politics the other was for more money.

Good luck to you.

engineer151515
08-28-2012, 21:13
Like I said before, they can't just terminate you on nebulous reasons. If they claimed that you didn't improve, then they must show records of them counseling you and training you to improve in these deficient area.

Actually, yeah, you can be terminated for no reason in a "work at will" State. As long as no Federal/State discrimination laws were violated or there is no employment contract to the contrary.

Alabama is the same.

.264 magnum
08-28-2012, 21:28
I worked at a childrens home, as a residential treatment specialist, I greatly enjoyed what I did, and made a genuine effort everyday to improve. My 6 months probationary period was up in October. I just got the call from my supervisor, she stated she simply didnt see improvement in a few area's she was concerned with.

I never was late, didn't call in, attended every training, had a great repoire with co-workers...etc etc

My question is, am I able to put this job on my resume?

I'm honestly in shock right now, because I loved what I did, which is rare these days.....

I hope whoever reads this is having a better day than myself.


You should put the job on your resume. Any prospective employer, with just a little work, will know that you were there anyway.

Just because she let you go does not mean that she will give you a bad reference. You're not in a position to push much but her not being specific is really weak.

Best of luck. Great people get fired all the time.

Glock_9mm
08-28-2012, 21:29
I hate to hear of this happening especially since it sounds like you really enjoyed and cared about your job. I doubt you will stayed unemployed for long, good luck.
Scott

Glock_9mm
08-28-2012, 21:43
I am.

I wouldn't keep an employee who displayed the fact that they supported Obama/Biden.

Something to consider on your next job, assuming you remain in the labor force.


I think you are on to something here. Politics and work do not belong together.

certifiedfunds
08-28-2012, 21:51
Where am I missing the Obama/biden part?

Sgt127
08-28-2012, 21:58
OP's sig line. Not sure its important. But, if its a small privatly held company,losing its butt to taxes and regulated to death, I could see it if the OP was vocal about it.

certifiedfunds
08-28-2012, 23:06
OP's sig line. Not sure its important. But, if its a small privatly held company,losing its butt to taxes and regulated to death, I could see it if the OP was vocal about it.

Missed that. I agree with Chute

jpa
08-29-2012, 01:29
Like I said before, they can't just terminate you on nebulous reasons. If they claimed that you didn't improve, then they must show records of them counseling you and training you to improve in these deficient area.

Because of people who think like you do, a lot of HR departments are counseling managers to give no reason for the termination, just that they decided to terminate your employment and instructions for receiving your last paycheck. I think this does the employee a disservice because they have no idea what to improve if they get no feedback from the employer. As several others mentioned, in an at-will state the employer can terminate you for any reason or no reason at all. As long as it isn't discrimination against any of the protected classes, they're good to go. You can still file for unemployment (and get it) if you were fired due to no fault of your own but you're still out of a job.

A friend of mine is the manager of a group home for developmentally disabled teens/young adults here in LV. The turnover in the agency is huge and I wish you the best of luck, don't let it get you down.

railfancwb
08-29-2012, 03:56
Age issue? Ongoing medical problems - diabetes, etc - which would drive group insurance premiums sky high?

BuckeyePPC
08-29-2012, 06:43
WTF are you talking about? I'd rather have my sister in a whorehouse than me being in the union.

Is your sister hot ?!?! :supergrin: Sorry. :embarassed:

OP, I've worked in the health service field and sometimes we had great counselors who just couldn't handle all the paperwork. We spent more time bouncing the paperwork back to them to fill out correctly and missed the time frame to get reimbursed for their time. Maybe it was more administrative than personal.

Combatcomm
08-29-2012, 06:48
Sorry for your situation. I hope everything works out and you get a betterpaying job that you will also enjoy. Hang in there!

HexHead
08-29-2012, 06:54
Like I said before, they can't just terminate you on nebulous reasons. If they claimed that you didn't improve, then they must show records of them counseling you and training you to improve in these deficient area.

Maybe not in the states you list as locations. In a "right to work" state, you can be fired for any reason at any time. Boss didn't like the tie you wore? You're gone. yeah, it really is as simple as that.

glock_19guy1983
08-29-2012, 06:56
I would fire a vocal obama supporter in a heartbeat.

HexHead
08-29-2012, 06:59
I would fire a vocal obama supporter in a heartbeat.

Bumper sticker on his car would be all the reason I needed.

But he was in social services, and they tend to be liberals. I doubt that was the reason. Maybe he wasn't pro-0bama enough?

okie
08-29-2012, 07:03
I'm so very sorry my friend, I hope you find a good job quickly my friend:nailbiting:

GeorgiaGlockMan
08-29-2012, 07:21
I would fire a vocal obama supporter in a heartbeat.

This.

But as a small, struggling business owner, I would fire someone with an Obama/biden 2012 sticker on their car in a heartbeat.

2bgop
08-29-2012, 07:23
Maybe not in the states you list as locations. In a "right to work" state, you can be fired for any reason at any time. Boss didn't like the tie you wore? You're gone. yeah, it really is as simple as that.

That is not true.

Dennis in MA
08-29-2012, 07:29
What a crapbag of an excuse. I'd rather be told I'm a monster than lied to. As mentioned already, your performance likely had zero to do with this.

When did we become a nation of weenies?

OctoberRust
08-29-2012, 07:36
I worked at a childrens home, as a residential treatment specialist, I greatly enjoyed what I did, and made a genuine effort everyday to improve. My 6 months probationary period was up in October. I just got the call from my supervisor, she stated she simply didnt see improvement in a few area's she was concerned with.

I never was late, didn't call in, attended every training, had a great repoire with co-workers...etc etc

My question is, am I able to put this job on my resume?

I'm honestly in shock right now, because I loved what I did, which is rare these days.....

I hope whoever reads this is having a better day than myself.

I hear Obama and Biden need career voters. You might be a good candidate, contact them. It sounds like a pretty sweet job if you ask me, they turned me down though because "I couldn't/didn't improve my areas". I think it's because I vote republican/libertarian though, and they were being prejudice. :couch:

ChuteTheMall
08-29-2012, 07:37
That is not true.

It's almost true.

There are still government regulations regarding discrimination base on age, race, gender, yada yada yada and there are still law firms hoping to sue and get rich of unlawful and/or unjust terminations.

But someone can absolutely be fired if the boss doesn't like the color of his tie. If the job requires a black tie and the employee decides to wear gray instead, he can be fired. The boss can decide what color tie must be worn, and whether or not the empoloyee's tie fulfilled the requirements. It's easy.

Regarding unemployment compensation eligibility, failure to improve or to meet expectations might not constitute wilfull misconduct, therefore the claimant would probably not be disqualified.

racerford
08-29-2012, 07:39
I think some are confusing "right to work" and "at will".

"Right to work" is about not having to join a union.

"At will" means that both the employee and employer can discontinue the work relationship without liability unless there is an expressed contract to the contrary. That is assuming no protected class issue reasons for employment. That is not to say you cannot sue for wrongful discharge but it does make it harder. Usually that is in the case of those with emloyment contracts. Texas is an "at will" and "right to work" state and yet they had the largest (at least at the time) wrongful discharge award in history ($128 million). The giy was an executive of the company so he likely had some sort of contract. IIRC it was in the 80s, so really a lot of money at the time.

Sharkey
08-29-2012, 07:40
Bumper sticker on his car would be all the reason I needed.

But he was in social services, and they tend to be liberals. I doubt that was the reason. Maybe he wasn't pro-0bama enough?

Sadly, that is one of the reasons I lost my ob of ten years. Add the fact I was topped out and they could bring a new guy in at considerably less and well, what a surprise, they have replaced a lot of people at that county agency. I never had a bad eval. in ten years and they reviewed the last one, told me it was neg. and didn't give me an opportunity to "improve".

Sorry, it truly does suck to be shown the door and not really have a reason why. After 9 months of being unemployed (it was like I had the plague after that), I got hired on with a state agency but I'm still bitter about how things turned out and that was 3 years ago. I hope something opens up for you soon. Your field needs people so hopefully it won't be too long.

SFCSMITH(RET)
08-29-2012, 07:45
Just to clarify.. some are mistaken about labor rights..

Kentucky is not a "right to work" state. (right to work means a Union can't MAKE you join/pay dues as a provision of employment)

It is an "at-will-employment" state. (at-will means you are free to quit without notice, and they are free to let you go without a given cause)

Huge difference.

If you work at an "at-will" business, this can/will/does happen. Most "probationary" periods at ANY job include an "at-will" condition.

The Hawk
08-29-2012, 07:49
I have seen that happen before. As a retired state employee, I saw folks get let go while on probation for a number of reasons. I went on vacation once and when I returned a week later I noticed an empty desk in our office. I asked what happened and was told that the supervisor just came in one morning and told the employee that she was not cut out for the job and to pack her personal belongings and go home. Nothing she could do as she was still on probation. I am sorry about what happened to you. Keep your chin up. Best of luck.

Geko45
08-29-2012, 08:12
That is not true.

I think people are confusing the legal concepts of "right to work" and "at will employment".

Edit: I see SFCSMITH just addressed this.

J_Rico
08-29-2012, 08:28
Just to clarify.. some are mistaken about labor rights..

Kentucky is not a "right to work" state. (right to work means a Union can't MAKE you join/pay dues as a provision of employment)

It is an "at-will-employment" state. (at-will means you are free to quit without notice, and they are free to let you go without a given cause)

Huge difference.

If you work at an "at-will" business, this can/will/does happen. Most "probationary" periods at ANY job include an "at-will" condition.

I did not know the difference. Thanks for the explanation.

Dennis in MA
08-29-2012, 09:03
What if I write a will at work. Then how does this pertain to me?

capnjim01
08-29-2012, 09:10
I worked at a childrens home, as a residential treatment specialist, I greatly enjoyed what I did, and made a genuine effort everyday to improve. My 6 months probationary period was up in October. I just got the call from my supervisor, she stated she simply didnt see improvement in a few area's she was concerned with.

I never was late, didn't call in, attended every training, had a great repoire with co-workers...etc etc

My question is, am I able to put this job on my resume?

I'm honestly in shock right now, because I loved what I did, which is rare these days.....

I hope whoever reads this is having a better day than myself.

Good luck dude

ChuteTheMall
08-29-2012, 09:29
What if I write a will at work. Then how does this pertain to me?

You can get fried.

TattooedGlock
08-29-2012, 09:40
If you were fired I wouldn't list it, even if you thought you did everything right.

2bgop
08-29-2012, 09:54
It's almost true.

There are still government regulations regarding discrimination base on age, race, gender, yada yada yada and there are still law firms hoping to sue and get rich of unlawful and/or unjust terminations.

But someone can absolutely be fired if the boss doesn't like the color of his tie. If the job requires a black tie and the employee decides to wear gray instead, he can be fired. The boss can decide what color tie must be worn, and whether or not the empoloyee's tie fulfilled the requirements. It's easy.

Regarding unemployment compensation eligibility, failure to improve or to meet expectations might not constitute wilfull misconduct, therefore the claimant would probably not be disqualified.


That was my point.

2bgop
08-29-2012, 09:55
I think people are confusing the legal concepts of "right to work" and "at will employment".

Edit: I see SFCSMITH just addressed this.

I think you are absolutely right.

Drain You
08-29-2012, 10:04
ER MAH GERD HeR SERPERTS ERBERMAH???
WERL I WERLD HERV FERERD HERM TER!

SPIN2010
08-29-2012, 10:18
Just because it's an "at will" state, it doesn't mean you can simply be terminated. If your termination was based on "areas that needed improvement yet you didn't show improvement", then were you counseled by your supervisor on these "areas that needed improvement"? If you didn't then go to HR and file a complaint. They have no choice but to address your termination. Hell, go to the local goverment and even the Feds.

FN is correct. No documentation = No dice even "If" in an at will employment state. Stating that improvement needs to be shown indicates there was a probationary review/counseling. If no such thing exists and/or was signed by those present ... tough stuff for the employer.

BTW: This is called standing up for yourself, not condoning corrupt union activity.

frizz
08-29-2012, 12:32
Because of people who think like you do, a lot of HR departments are counseling managers to give no reason for the termination, just that they decided to terminate your employment and instructions for receiving your last paycheck. I think this does the employee a disservice because they have no idea what to improve if they get no feedback from the employer. As several others mentioned, in an at-will state the employer can terminate you for any reason or no reason at all. As long as it isn't discrimination against any of the protected classes, they're good to go. You can still file for unemployment (and get it) if you were fired due to no fault of your own but you're still out of a job.

You have to screw up pretty bad to be denied unemployment. Even incompetence isn't grounds for discharge for fault.

I know someone who was fired for political BS, and the employer tried to say she was a screw up... after four years of employment!

frizz
08-29-2012, 12:41
You can get fried.
Writing a will does not give an employee the right to drink on the job.

Where do you get this foolishness????

:supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

GWSHARK
08-29-2012, 12:42
I am.

I wouldn't keep an employee who displayed the fact that they supported Obama/Biden.

Something to consider on your next job, assuming you remain in the labor force.

By all means list them on your resume, there's not much they can say, and it's better than a gap in employment.

That is sad... very sad.

Yall take that us vs them thing too far.

IMHO a big part of what is wrong with this country.

Are Democrats the only group you would discriminate against or are there others?

:dunno:

frizz
08-29-2012, 12:48
FN is correct. No documentation = No dice even "If" in an at will employment state. Stating that improvement needs to be shown indicates there was a probationary review/counseling. If no such thing exists and/or was signed by those present ... tough stuff for the employer.


And what rights does the discharged employee have in an at-will state? Outside of the already-discussed discrimination situations or violation of an employment contract, it gives the ex-employee grounds for an unsuccessful lawsuit.

That is the whole point of at-will.

GWSHARK
08-29-2012, 12:49
and Hussell_Crowe I would discuss with your former supervisor before using them as a reference just to ensure they would give a favorable report... also may give you some insight into what areas may need improvement.

Good luck to you.

frizz
08-29-2012, 12:51
That is sad... very sad.

Yall take that us vs them thing too far.

IMHO a big part of what is wrong with this country.

Are Democrats the only group you would discriminate against or are there others?

:dunno:

Beyond sad. Partisan politics ain't too f'n bright.

kensb2
08-29-2012, 12:55
OP: My wife had this happen to her as well. She was working in a similar job to yours. Her probationary period was almost up, and her boss had been making comments on a regular basis about how well she was doing. Then one day, a day before we signed for our new house and about week before Christmas, her boss and another person in management came in her office with a box. They started packing up her personal items, told her she was being "let go". They provided absolutely no reasoning. They walked her out of the building, and she had to wait while they finished getting her stuff. We weren't even sure if she was eligible for unemployment, or if she should list the job on her resume because she didn't know if she had been fired. It was a pretty sucky situation, to be sure. And it came at a terrible time, too! My wife enjoys working with people with mental health issues, and kids at "alternative" schools. So you aren't the only 'kooky' one out there! Good luck finding a new job!

P.S. While my wife certainly isn't a right-wing conservative, she isn't a democrat either....

frizz
08-29-2012, 13:01
On the question of listing them as a reference, I will caution you that even employers who confirm dates of employment often use tone of voice and/or wording to express disdain for someone who they personally didn't like, and even vice versa.

You probably know this, but in the shock of losing a job, these things can depart your senses.

Hang in there!

Buki192327
08-29-2012, 13:15
Just because it's an "at will" state, it doesn't mean you can simply be terminated. If your termination was based on "areas that needed improvement yet you didn't show improvement", then were you counseled by your supervisor on these "areas that needed improvement"? If you didn't then go to HR and file a complaint. They have no choice but to address your termination. Hell, go to the local goverment and even the Feds.

In an at will state, they can fire you for any reason, at any time. You come in one day and they don't like the way your hair is combed, the color of your eyes, your tie, the color of your shoes, etc., etc., they can fire you.

They don't have to give any warnings or reasons. That is the right employers, have in a right to work state.

BamaTrooper
08-29-2012, 13:19
same same....:whistling:

Ohhhhhhhh, I see...a union whorehouse.:rofl:

FFR Spyder GT
08-29-2012, 13:31
WTF are you talking about? I'd rather have my sister in a whorehouse than me being in the union.

What about a Union Whorehouse? :tongueout:

countrygun
08-29-2012, 14:04
FN is correct. No documentation = No dice even "If" in an at will employment state. Stating that improvement needs to be shown indicates there was a probationary review/counseling. If no such thing exists and/or was signed by those present ... tough stuff for the employer.

BTW: This is called standing up for yourself, not condoning corrupt union activity.


You obviously don't practice labor law in Oregon.

You are very wrong

frizz
08-29-2012, 14:21
Ohhhhhhhh, I see...a union whorehouse.:rofl:
I don't think that this is worth discussing because Nevada is an at-will and right-to-work state.


What I'm saying is, Nevada is the only right to f___ at will state in the Union!

janice6
08-29-2012, 14:31
I'm sorry. I would list it and go about my business of getting another job.

Pee on them, who needs someone that doesn't know a good employee when they have one. Get an attitude. No one will think more of you, then you do of yourself.

I worked for a very large employer and if you were fired, they were so litigation conscious, they would relate the times and duration of your employment and offer nothing else to an inquiry.

fnfalman
08-29-2012, 14:52
And what rights does the discharged employee have in an at-will state? Outside of the already-discussed discrimination situations or violation of an employment contract, it gives the ex-employee grounds for an unsuccessful lawsuit.

That is the whole point of at-will.

"At will" is for people to feel good. The Feds don't recognize "at will". If you're going to terminate people (as opposed to laying off), then you better have good reasons with documentations. Even if you were to "lay off" somebody, you'd better not be hiring someone else to replace this person because that'd be fraudulent.

engineer151515
08-29-2012, 16:37
, , , , ,

engineer151515
08-29-2012, 16:41
"At will" is for people to feel good. The Feds don't recognize "at will". ..........

As a blanket assessment, that is vague.

There are some exemptions to "at will" employment, such as if the company fired a person for reporting an illegal activity. Only 11 States currently recognize a covenant of good faith and fair dealing exception - prohibiting terminations made in bad faith or motivated by malice.

Much info here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

and here

http://employeeissues.com/at_will_employment_2.htm

canis latrans
08-29-2012, 17:24
Yall take that us vs them thing too far.

IMHO a big part of what is wrong with this country.



perhaps if one side wasn't trying to enslave the country, the acrimony wouldn't be so harsh.

(some of us take sincere exception to your efforts)

FPS
08-29-2012, 17:43
I'm sorry you got fired. I hope you find work soon. I don't wish a firing on anyone. Tough times. Buckle down and find another job.

.

Flying-Dutchman
08-29-2012, 17:58
"At will" is for people to feel good. The Feds don't recognize "at will". If you're going to terminate people (as opposed to laying off), then you better have good reasons with documentations. Even if you were to "lay off" somebody, you'd better not be hiring someone else to replace this person because that'd be fraudulent.
What about freedom of association? Why should anyone be forced to keep an employee against their wishes?

No wonder unemployment is 8%. You are hiring not marrying a person.

Best to 1099 them.

MySiK26
08-29-2012, 18:49
If I have, or am running a business, it's in MY best interest to have the best employees on payroll money can buy. Why should I be forced to keep an employee for any reason?

OP: Whatever the reason was for not keeping you, legitimate or not, doesn't matter. If it was legit, try improving in areas that need it, and make yourself more marketable. If it wasn't, they're worse off without you (considering they are replacing you with a lower quality employee). Capitalism is not unlike "Darwinism". I hope you find yourself doing what you love again soon. Best of luck to you!

eta: I would not list them as a reference.

GeorgiaGlockMan
08-30-2012, 02:02
............
...........
Best to 1099 them.

I'd be very carful how you set that "contract" up many states are real sticklers on the definition of an employee (especially when you have a "contractor" that is bad with truth/facts and only interested in "gaming" the system for whatever they can lie, cheat and steal for).

Back taxes would drive your profit to below zero pretty fast.

Good Luck.

skanless
08-30-2012, 02:14
It's Friday, you ain't got no job, and you ain't got **** to do... - YouTube

DanaT
08-30-2012, 03:23
perhaps if one side wasn't trying to enslave the country, the acrimony wouldn't be so harsh.

(some of us take sincere exception to your efforts)

I working on making people work for me for $3 an hour. Do you realize what good employees you find for $3/hour?

Canis. Send me your resume. I am starting the search for a couple people. In fact, in one of the positions you better be making at a minimum a quarter million for your salary after a year or I will fire you for underperformance. So let's see your resume and see if you have mad skillz.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

certifiedfunds
08-30-2012, 13:21
perhaps if one side wasn't trying to enslave the country, the acrimony wouldn't be so harsh.

(some of us take sincere exception to your efforts)

When an employer can't fire an employee for any reason, who exactly is the slave?

The Dying Gaul
08-30-2012, 15:42
"At will" is for people to feel good. The Feds don't recognize "at will". If you're going to terminate people (as opposed to laying off), then you better have good reasons with documentations. Even if you were to "lay off" somebody, you'd better not be hiring someone else to replace this person because that'd be fraudulent.

This is sort of incorrect. As an attorney that has practiced employment law, I can tell you that documentation is important, primarily because there are so many protected class and activities now days. If the employee that is terminated is part of a protected class, you had better have a valid reason, or any reason that is ultimately given is going to be viewed as pretext by the EEOC.

As for Lay-offs , if you mean reduction in force firings (RiFFs) those are even trickier because employers must avoid disparate impact against protected classes, even if the terminations were neutral on their face, i.e. non-discriminatory reasons.

canis latrans
08-30-2012, 15:59
CF and others; perhaps some of you don't know me (even though I've been here for twelve years)...

it is my sincere belief/experience that it is the LEFT who is trying to enslave the country.

Dana, PM me your requirements.

certifiedfunds
08-30-2012, 16:23
CF and others; perhaps some of you don't know me (even though I've been here for twelve years)...

it is my sincere belief/experience that it is the LEFT who is trying to enslave the country.

Dana, PM me your requirements.

Apologies. I'm punchy from the storm stress.

canis latrans
08-30-2012, 16:34
no problem, CF.

you doing okay through the storm?

certifiedfunds
08-30-2012, 16:41
no problem, CF.

you doing okay through the storm?

Yeah just a big mess to clean up. Power still out.

canis latrans
08-30-2012, 16:46
good to hear you're okay.

anyone else notice Husselle Crowe disappeared from this thread?

ChuteTheMall
08-30-2012, 17:37
That is sad... very sad.

Yall take that us vs them thing too far.

IMHO a big part of what is wrong with this country.

Are Democrats the only group you would discriminate against or are there others?

:dunno:

Democrats, Commies, Nazis, fellow travelers, drunks, druggies, bums, hoboes, disease spreaders, UFO abductees, gun grabbers, abortionists, hare krishnas, mermaids, internet moderators and trolls, idiots, fools, illegals, fugitives, child abusers, late sleepers, mumblers, chimpanzees, racists, gum chewers, and stinkers are just some off the top of my head.

You're probably on the list several times.

ChuteTheMall
08-30-2012, 17:38
good to hear you're okay.

anyone else notice Husselle Crowe disappeared from this thread?

He's watching the RNC convention, and during the commercials he's out trying to scrape the Obama/Biden stickers off his Prius.

fnfalman
08-30-2012, 17:41
What about freedom of association? Why should anyone be forced to keep an employee against their wishes?

No wonder unemployment is 8%. You are hiring not marrying a person.

Best to 1099 them.

So, you walk down the line one day and just randomly pick out an employee regardless of performance records and just terminate them?

Show me where this will fly even in at "at will" state.

Remander
08-30-2012, 18:21
So, you walk down the line one day and just randomly pick out an employee regardless of performance records and just terminate them?

Show me where this will fly even in at "at will" state.

It will fly if that is what really happened. Employment at will works both ways. Just as you can quit and walk out any time you feel for any reason, they can fire you for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all, so long as it is not one of the reasons expressly forbidden by statute (age, religion, sex, race, national origin, disability, etc.)

The problem is that if the fired person falls in one of those protected classes, no reason was given, and a discrimination suit if filed, it is hard to persuade a judge or jury that you fired the person for no reason rather than because he was blind, Baptist, or Brazilian. But if that is proved to be the case, the law says the "no reason" firing was legal. You could draw a name out of a hat and say, "You are fired," and it would be perfectly legal in an employment at will state.

People often have a very hard time understanding this because it is "not fair," but it is the law in many places.

Another issue that comes up in these "fired for no reason" situations is that the employer will just say things did not work out. Really it was because the employer thought the employee was a little slow, had poor communication skills, or did not get along with others. But he did not want to hurt the fired guy's feelings by telling him he had bad breath or creeped out coworkers.

DanaT
08-30-2012, 18:53
CF and others; perhaps some of you don't know me (even though I've been here for twelve years)...

it is my sincere belief/experience that it is the LEFT who is trying to enslave the country.

Dana, PM me your requirements.

Easy.

I want to see your experience with sales of OEM devices to medical device manufacturers with an annual sales rate of at least $3M.

canis latrans
08-30-2012, 19:10
Thanks, but I do not meet the minimum requirements for that position.

Best of luck filling that job. I'm sure it's a wonderful opportunity for someone with the right experience.

ChuteTheMall
12-25-2012, 22:14
Obama find you another job yet?

:popcorn:

Fred Hansen
12-25-2012, 23:19
I'd fire the dumb **** who kept an Obommunist on the payroll for 6 months.

Geeorge
12-26-2012, 12:35
Does you lady supervisor have a mustache?

I generally don't get along with women who have upper lip hair

:wavey:

mgs
12-26-2012, 12:50
Sorry to here about your situation. The only good woman boss I've had knew that I knew more than her and she knew I would do a great job for her. One I had knew it all and I let her crash & burn to little pieces. Best to work freelance or as a contractor right now.

ChuteTheMall
01-13-2013, 07:54
Didja get a new babysitting job yet, or didja keep the Obama/Biden bumpersticker on your Yugo?

Kingarthurhk
01-13-2013, 08:25
I appreciate everyone's kind words. I'm in Kentucky, which is an at-will state, and the thought of unemployment ( while tempting ) doesn't make me happy. I love helping people, going into work everyday was an opportunity to make an impact in the lives of kids who were severely neglected, I took pride in my job, and was content.

This was my second job in the field of residential treatment, what can I say, it's certainly an odd thing to have a passion for I guess, but I do.

I'd rather not answer the office politics question ;) let's just say all of my co-workers seemingly enjoyed working with me, and they've all texted me with shock and disappointment.

In the 5 months I was there, I at no time was given a write up, or even a verbal warning....I was just told there were " areas " that she didnt seem improvement on, within the 5 month time frame.

I asked if I could use them as a reference, she said the only thing they can answer is whether or not I was employed there, so I assume that was a yes.

I have a suggestion. By what I am seeing in your posts you are probably a young guy. You like working with children with disabilities. Have you considered going to college and getting a degree in special education? That way you could work with children with problems and have some stability with a degree in that field?

RonS
01-13-2013, 09:42
Don't give up, having a passion for the field is a great leg up. You will find a position somewhere where you fit. Consider college, especially if you can get on somewhere with tuition reimbursment. Your individual supervisor may or may not be comfortable with someone who is working their way up, but most agencies are looking for people who can grow into greater responsibility. Don't expect to get rich, don't expect people to understand what you do or why but those you help will know what you did. Good luck.

ChuteTheMall
01-23-2013, 10:43
Any luck yet?

:rofl:

OctoberRust
01-23-2013, 10:52
Any luck yet?

:rofl:


Well, he voted for Obama. So Obama said he'd give him a job in return. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Fred Hansen
01-27-2013, 14:08
I am shocked that Obommunism didn't work out for you. :wavey:

Rinspeed
01-27-2013, 14:58
Well, he voted for Obama. So Obama said he'd give him a job in return. :rofl:





:rofl:

NEOH212
01-27-2013, 16:36
WTF are you talking about? I'd rather have my sister in a whorehouse than me being in the union.

A man after my own heart.

:thumbsup:

ChuteTheMall
01-27-2013, 17:11
Just because it's an "at will" state, it doesn't mean you can simply be terminated. If your termination was based on "areas that needed improvement yet you didn't show improvement", then were you counseled by your supervisor on these "areas that needed improvement"? If you didn't then go to HR and file a complaint. They have no choice but to address your termination. Hell, go to the local goverment and even the Feds.

Yeah, go cry to your master Obama.:crying:He cares.