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TBO
08-30-2012, 00:26
Handgun Stopping Power: Sizing Up Your Options

The author fired 100 handgun loads into ballistic gelatin, measuring velocity, penetration and expansion for each.

By Richard Mann, Field Editor

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/handgun-stopping-power/
------------------------------

From the current issue of American Rifleman.
Not an end-all-be-all summation, but an interesting comparison.

TBO

youngdocglock
08-30-2012, 00:29
Good to see my PDX1 in .40 preformed well.

Sad to see he didnt test my buffalo bore .500 mag.

I believe thats where my stopping power lies :-)

cowboy1964
08-30-2012, 10:18
Good to see my PDX1 in .40 preformed well.


A little light on penetration (11"), but it did expand a lot. Almost as light as the old 155gr Silvertip. Surprising for a 180gr bonded.

M 7
08-30-2012, 11:09
It would've been nice to see some testing through heavy clothing of some kind instead of the bare gelatin used by the author.


It is pretty unlikely (but not impossible) that we'll be shooting nekkid bad guys.

Short Cut
08-30-2012, 11:33
If they were only going to use one 10MM round it would have been better to choose a middle weight JHP like a 165 or 180 rather than the lightest end with a 135 grain bullet.

Roering
08-30-2012, 11:40
Looks like I can stick with the 180gr Remington Golden Saber.

TBO
08-30-2012, 12:58
Like the author said, this was never intended to be "Thee" definitive list, but to allow some basic comparisons.
Take it for what it's worth, but don't expect it to be all inclusive.

Sent from the toe my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

PghJim
09-01-2012, 10:42
What you did not say was to make his list the fired bullet has to penetrate 13" (one more than FBI), go 1,000fps and expand 150%. I was surprised to see that there were no effective 230gr 45 ACP rounds because they did not go 1,000fps. I think an HST at 900fps would be rather effective. The study was worthless.

Darkangel1846
09-01-2012, 11:20
The term "stopping power" is a myth, do not believe anything that uses that in a selling line. A handgun is there only to give you time to get to your rifle.

PghJim
09-01-2012, 11:33
The term "stopping power" is a myth, do not believe anything that uses that in a selling line. A handgun is there only to give you time to get to your rifle.

I do not disagree with you, but what would call a weighting of rounds and bullets where some evidently stop agressive behavior better than others, or are you saying all handgun ammo is the same? Or are you just a curmudgeon.

fastbolt
09-01-2012, 13:05
I know there are a lot of folks who like to spout sayings ("fight your way to your rifle") as if they were some sort of scientific "proof", but when you're talking about both LE & non-LE who don't have access to rifles (or don't even own rifles), the handguns being carried on their persons may be it (except for LE who have access to shotguns).

I also tend to agree that trying to debate "stopping power" is something best left to discussing disc brakes & motor vehicles.

Magazine articles still have to be written to fill the pages of magazines. "Oldie but goodie" subjects seem to be welcomed with great regularity. No biggie.

I have no doubt but that discussions regarding "handgun stopping power" will continue to exist, even after we've stopped using projectile hand weapons, and will provide many thousands of hours of invigorating and enjoyable debate for firearms historians in some future century.

Meanwhile, the rest of us can only train & practice, increasing our knowledge and refining our skillset, as well as endeavor to optimize our mindset to cope with the demands of unexpected stressful situations involving the imminent possibility of serious bodily injury or death.

M 7
09-01-2012, 20:50
What you did not say was to make his list the fired bullet has to penetrate 13" (one more than FBI), go 1,000fps and expand 150%. I was surprised to see that there were no effective 230gr 45 ACP rounds because they did not go 1,000fps. I think an HST at 900fps would be rather effective. The study was worthless.

Or least highly biased...

How anyone could rule out every .45ACP load in that manner and do it with a straight face is beyond me. :headscratch:

Crazy stuff. :upeyes:



.

uz2bUSMC
09-01-2012, 20:59
The term "stopping power" is a myth, do not believe anything that uses that in a selling line. A handgun is there only to give you time to get to your rifle.

Fighting back to your rifle is the myth. What you have at the moment is the reality. I don't know how long you think a gun fight might last, but it's really counted in rounds, not seconds.

How many times have you actually heard this to happen? Your tool in hand must prevail, the rifle/shotgun in your trunk is for the gun fight you are expecting.

fredj338
09-01-2012, 21:15
Fighting back to your rifle is the myth. What you have at the moment is the reality. I don't know how long you think a gun fight might last, but it's really counted in rounds, not seconds.

How many times have you actually heard this to happen? Your tool in hand must prevail, the rifle/shotgun in your trunk is for the gun fight you are expecting.
Most of us wil never have anything but a handgun to fight with. By it's nature, it is he most likely option. I agree, it's going to be counted in rounds fired & hits scored. Do that, the time will shorten dramatically.

cowboywannabe
09-01-2012, 21:31
if penetration and expansion factor are the measure of a bullets performance the .22lr 32gr. stinger in a handgun is better than a 135gr. 10mm......take from the data what you will.

JW1178
09-01-2012, 21:53
It does state that "one shot stops" are rare, but often what stops a fight is the attacker being defeated due to his injuries, or bleeds out. That's why I like a bullet that does lots of damage. The higher velocity bullets tend to do the best at this.

And then there’s impact velocity. When you combine high impact velocity with expansion, wound cavities get very large. This should not come as a surprise. The .38 Spl. and the .357 Mag. shoot the same caliber bullet, but the .357 Mag. pushes it much faster and has a much better record for stopping bad guys. When comparing their performance in 10 percent gelatin using similar bullets, the difference is obvious.

But looking at the test data, the rounds don't perform that much differently. However, the .357 does a lot more damage in that path and has a record of ending fights much better.

This FANTASY I hear on GT all the time is that all BG's are enraged crazy nuts high on some crack/meth/PCP and feel no pain and are on a suicidal kamakazi quest to kill you. Really?

copo9560
09-01-2012, 22:04
It is interesting to compare the DT 10 mm 135 bullet to the 40 in same weight. Looks like the bullet must have blew apart in the 10 - only about 1/2 the penetration while starting at a significantly higher velocity. Goes to show bullet selection in higher velocity rounds is pretty critical. I would like to see how DT/s bonded 165 in 10mm would have performed.

As for pain, I bet the exploding 10 would hurt a lot more in the belly than the deeper penetrating 22.

rednoved
09-01-2012, 22:45
My carry choice faired well in this test. I would have liked to see the results of the Critical Duty round. They had a full featured article about Critical Duty a couple pages after the results of this test, I just wish it was included.

unit1069
09-01-2012, 23:15
It is interesting to compare the DT 10 mm 135 bullet to the 40 in same weight. Looks like the bullet must have blew apart in the 10 - only about 1/2 the penetration while starting at a significantly higher velocity. Goes to show bullet selection in higher velocity rounds is pretty critical. I would like to see how DT/s bonded 165 in 10mm would have performed.

As for pain, I bet the exploding 10 would hurt a lot more in the belly than the deeper penetrating 22.

This is exactly why velocity taken alone is misleading when it comes to effective stopping power.

The ammo must match the specific bullet design with velocity, overall reliability, etc ...

It's also why companies shouldn't mix-and-match bullets designed for one caliber in ammo intended for other calibers.

Zombie Steve
09-01-2012, 23:59
Read this article on the terlet a few weeks back when this issue came out.

Still sittin next to the terlet.

:tbo:

Berto
09-02-2012, 00:34
Make sure it's septic safe, Z.

Zombie Steve
09-02-2012, 08:57
If it was, it would be gone already.

4949shooter
09-02-2012, 09:18
Where is that cartoon that compares the 10mm to .45, .40, and 9? :supergrin:

TattooedGlock
09-02-2012, 13:05
Any handgun is better than no gun. I always tell folks, let me shoot you in the head with a .22 and then we'll talk about stopping power.

JW1178
09-02-2012, 14:17
Any handgun is better than no gun. I always tell folks, let me shoot you in the head with a .22 and then we'll talk about stopping power.

Well I grab a butter knife and stab you in the head and we will talk about stopping power.... well me with a gunshot in the skull and you with a knife sticking out of your head, others can talk about it... makes for an epic video though. :faint:

Not being serious of course but just about anything can be a deadly weapon, it's about what's effective in stopping an attack. Knowing how to use your weapon of choice is most important. So, IOW, it's the caliber between the ears that really counts. Too bad some are shooting with a squib.

FiremanJim
09-05-2012, 15:15
nice how they tested so many 10mm rounds.....ONE

Zombie Steve
09-05-2012, 15:19
I always tell folks, let me shoot you in the head with a .22 and then we'll talk about stopping power.

I always tell folks that I wouldn't take that bet if you were going to huck a cue ball at me. Doesn't mean cue balls are good for self defense.


:supergrin:

PghJim
09-05-2012, 17:27
nice how they tested so many 10mm rounds.....ONE

Jim - trust me in that it was a stupid test that did not show anything. He actually says that he did not shoot more 10mm, because he did not want to bias the average of all of the rounds. I was mad that I had wasted my time reading it. Also, of all of the 10mm rounds he could have chosen, why that one?

M 7
09-05-2012, 17:40
He actually says that he did not shoot more 10mm, because he did not want to bias the average of all of the rounds.

That admission on the author's behalf is a strong indictment that he was manipulating conditions in order to arrive at a desired result- that is data tampering, plain and clear.

JuneyBooney
09-06-2012, 13:00
It would've been nice to see some testing through heavy clothing of some kind instead of the bare gelatin used by the author.


It is pretty unlikely (but not impossible) that we'll be shooting nekkid bad guys.

I agree.

fredj338
09-06-2012, 20:10
Any handgun is better than no gun. I always tell folks, let me shoot you in the head with a .22 and then we'll talk about stopping power.
One of the most over used ridiculous mind set statements out there. I can hit you in the head w/ a 2x2 & probably kill you. It is a pretty poor choice for self defense. Of course, if one could get their target to stand still, we probably would never have developed passed the rock & stick.:upeyes: BTW, influensa has killed more peopel than all firearms of all types ever used. Problem is it takes about 2wks to die, not a good stopper at all.

Taphius
09-07-2012, 03:22
That low recoil 327 fed mag is interesting... maybe I will end up getting a carry revolver that doesnt rip the skin off my hand after all.

Happypuppy
09-07-2012, 03:48
It is a decent test. The author is a believer in a bigger wound channel and seems to weigh it heavily at 1.5 x diameter. All these tests are relative and that is the value. Another way to look at different rounds , to extrapolate it to mean what I will term combat effectivness brings way to many variables into to play. The target - in a car, behind a wall, heavy clothes or a T shirt. The list goes on and on.


Sent via Mental Power

SCmasterblaster
09-12-2012, 17:11
The 9x19 loads looked good. My load looks like it would do well in their test. (A 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ load at 1400 FPS)