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Backfire_Tx
08-31-2012, 14:27
1st time to ship a firearm. My Glock 23 gen 4 has a failure to feed problem when i started to practice with SD ammo. I use Gold dot 165's 1150 fps. Problem does not any FMJ lawman 165's or 180 FMJ of any cheap brand - probably 900 rounds shot through Gun. And no - It's is not magazine specific, problem occurs with multiple magazines. Very frustrated - had to previous have a new ejector sent to armorer to fix the ejections to the head.


Ok Fed-ex or UPS? Can i ship it in the standard glock case? I guess you can correct and just take out insurance? What say you Glock mighty experts?

Thread below shows process in attempt to correct Failure to feed issue

SJ 40
08-31-2012, 14:44
You may indeed have a magazine problem that doesn't rear it's ugly head with the FMJ's.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1399097

Pay close attention to post #. 5 by Voyager.
It may not be and maybe it is,check your magazines before shipping,
SJ 40

Backfire_Tx
08-31-2012, 16:01
You may indeed have a magazine problem that doesn't rear it's ugly head with the FMJ's.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1399097

Pay close attention to post #. 5 by Voyager.
It may not be and maybe it is,check your magazines before shipping,
SJ 40

Just tired of trying to diagnose what is going on. Multiple mags Glock 2's follower 9 have issues. Its fairly consistent.

USSOCOM
08-31-2012, 16:25
1st time to ship a firearm. My Glock 23 gen 4 has a failure to feed problem when i started to practice with SD ammo. I use Gold dot 165's 1150 fps. Problem does not any FMJ lawman 165's or 180 FMJ of any cheap brand - probably 900 rounds shot through Gun. And no - It's is not magazine specific, problem occurs with multiple magazines. Very frustrated - had to previous have a new ejector sent to armorer to fix the ejections to the head.


Ok Fed-ex or UPS? Can i ship it in the standard glock case? I guess you can correct and just take out insurance? What say you Glock mighty experts?

FedEx in the case, no mags. Drop in a medium sized FedEx box take it by a FedEx hub not a Kinkos.

SJ 40
08-31-2012, 19:11
Just tired of trying to diagnose what is going on. Multiple mags Glock 2's follower 9 have issues. Its fairly consistent.Not to difficult to diagnose just find,borrow a proved Gen 3 23 or 22 magazine and shoot it.
It worked for me along with Voyagers instructions on how to modify mags,That said I will not purchase any Gen 4 magazines.
Hate to see you fork out the money to send it to Glock only for them to return it stating test fired meets specs. and having done nothing to take care of your problem. SJ 40

Backfire_Tx
08-31-2012, 19:20
Not to difficult to diagnose just find,borrow a proved Gen 3 23 or 22 magazine and shoot it.
It worked for me along with Voyagers instructions on how to modify mags,That said I will not purchase any Gen 4 magazines.
Hate to see you fork out the money to send it to Glock only for them to return it stating test fired meets specs. and having done nothing to take care of your problem. SJ 40

Why would FMJ 165's work fine then, and JHP gold dots do not - in same mag? I dont get it.

SJ 40
08-31-2012, 20:07
Why would FMJ 165's work fine then, and JHP gold dots do not - in same mag? I dont get it.Depending on the profile of the bullet,most JHP's tend to be some what shorter in length and the hollow point cavity is a very abrupt,large flat nose.
Compare the bullet profiles,silhouette of each side by side and see what you think.
One of the best self defense rounds as far as it's ability to feed because of the bullets shape is the Remington Golden Saber rounds.

I just took some measurements.

Federal Champion 180 gr. FMJ-measurement of nose diameter
0.250

Speer Lawman 180 gr FMJ -measurement of nose diameter 0.251

Speer Gold Dot 180 gr. JHP- measurement of nose diameter
0.307

Remington Golden Saber 180 gr. JHP- measurement of nose diameter.
0.292

Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. JHP-measurement of nose diameter.
0.287

Federal HST 180 gr. JHP-measurement of nose diameter.
0.288

The numbers show it.

If you do have a problem Gen 4 magazine the follower doesn't completely rise to the top of the tube,causing the bullet to release low .
The bullet slams lower than it should on the feed ramp,usually tipping downward,Bingo Jam. SJ 40

Backfire_Tx
08-31-2012, 20:15
Depending on the profile of the bullet,most JHP's tend to be some what shorter in length and the hollow point cavity is a very abrupt,large flat nose.
Compare the bullet profiles,silhouette of each side by side and see what you think.
One of the best self defense rounds as far as it's ability to feed because of the bullets shape is the Remington Golden Saber rounds.

I just took some measurements.

Federal Champion 180 gr. FMJ-measurement of nose diameter
0.250

Speer Lawman 180 gr FMJ -measurement of nose diameter 0.251

Speer Gold Dot 180 gr. JHP- measurement of nose diameter
0.307

Remington Golden Saber 180 gr. JHP- measurement of nose diameter.
0.292

Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. JHP-measurement of nose diameter.
0.287

Federal HST 180 gr. JHP-measurement of nose diameter.
0.288

The numbers show it.

If you do have a problem Gen 4 magazine the follower doesn't completely rise to the top of the tube,causing the bullet to release low .
The bullet slams lower than it should on the feed ramp,usually tipping downward,Bingo Jam. SJ 40

So your thinking is that for a common SD load that the LE uses, the mags (plural) are bad? Gold dot 165's is extensively used, is my gun unique? I am hung up on why my gun cannot use standard loads. I am using the Glock 2 with follower's of 9. They are the latest. Could it be also the extractor? It is a dipped extractor.

SJ 40
08-31-2012, 20:42
So your thinking is that for a common SD load that the LE uses, the mags (plural) are bad? Gold dot 165's is extensively used, is my gun unique? I am hung up on why my gun cannot use standard loads. I am using the Glock 2 with follower's of 9. They are the latest. Could it be also the extractor? It is a dipped extractor.Backfire
It could be a number of things and if sending back will make you feel more confident then that's what you should do.

If I hadn't been through the same thing I wouldn't offer the magazine problem.
My best suggestion to you is find,borrow a proven magazine that will tell you if that is indeed the problem.
If you were closer to me I would give you one of my g 22 mags that would give you your answer.

Besides the list of problems Glock is having this will reoccur for years as the bad magazines in stock in stores or distributors get sold. SJ 40

hulk2k8
08-31-2012, 22:05
Depends on what's closest to you. UPS Stores will not take you gun. You must find a UPS hub.

Any FedEx / Kinkos however can ship your gun for you. You are however supposed to declare that it is a firearm.

Backfire_Tx
08-31-2012, 22:07
Backfire
It could be a number of things and if sending back will make you feel more confident then that's what you should do.

If I hadn't been through the same thing I wouldn't offer the magazine problem.
My best suggestion to you is find,borrow a proven magazine that will tell you if that is indeed the problem.
If you were closer to me I would give you one of my g 22 mags that would give you your answer.

Besides the list of problems Glock is having this will reoccur for years as the bad magazines in stock in stores or distributors get sold. SJ 40

Believe me it Makes sense what you are saying, i just dont have a baseline mag that works. I'll try and find someone who has a Glock 40 cal - that works. But with a new gun, it should not take this much effort. If i get it back and its still broke -after the cost of shipping. I think i'll get an XD!

SJ 40
09-01-2012, 05:28
Believe me it Makes sense what you are saying, i just dont have a baseline mag that works. I'll try and find someone who has a Glock 40 cal - that works. But with a new gun, it should not take this much effort. If i get it back and its still broke -after the cost of shipping. I think i'll get an XD!Backfire :agree: How many unsold 40S&W guns with bad magazines remain in distributors and shop shelves and packaged magazines as Glock doesn't do recalls.

I had purchased 9 magazines from a large distributor and of course they were the latest with a #.2 on the base of the tube body and #.9 follower.
All 9 had the same feeding problems as you are experiencing.
I had a three Gen 3 magazines to test with,so I was fortunate.
With Voyagers instructions I was able to straighten two of the 9 magazines the remaining 7 I got shed of,will never purchase another Gen 4,40S&W magazine.
It's too bad Glock isn't what it used to be,Perfection is now spelled with a small p. SJ 40

SJ 40
09-01-2012, 05:36
Double Tap SJ 40

Backfire_Tx
09-01-2012, 07:52
Backfire :agree: How many unsold 40S&W guns with bad magazines remain in distributors and shop shelves and packaged magazines as Glock doesn't do recalls.

I had purchased 9 magazines from a large distributor and of course they were the latest with a #.2 on the base of the tube body and #.9 follower.
All 9 had the same feeding problems as you are experiencing.
I had a three Gen 3 magazines to test with,so I was fortunate.
With Voyagers instructions I was able to straighten two of the 9 magazines the remaining 7 I got shed of,will never purchase another Gen 4,40S&W magazine.
It's too bad Glock isn't what it used to be,Perfection is now spelled with a small p. SJ 40

Wow. So you shaved down the plastic in the mags, and got 2 to work? I have a #1 mag with 8 follower i picked up at gun show. Was going to fire whats left of my gold dot 165's to see if that made a difference. Problem occurs normally in the middle or near top of the 13 shot mag - it is consistent on FTF. I would like to isolate the problem to the mags and not the gun. If the #1 mag works - then i will know. I guess most people would just use larger bullet grains 180 gd, or as you suggested some other SD ammo where the shape is different.

fourrobert13
09-01-2012, 08:09
Just a suggestion, but perhaps you should try a different SD load. Maybe your 23 just doesn't like 165gr GD ammo. Try some different stuff and see if that corrects the problem. As for shipping, contact Glock again and tell them you need a shipping label. UPS will cost you close to $70 to ship overnight with insurance. Glock will give you a label, you just have to mention it, but I would try different ammo before sending it back. My Gen 4 23 has no issues with 180gr Winchester Ranger bonded HP ammo and that's using the Gen 4 mags. Just my two cents.

Agonizer
09-01-2012, 08:31
tagged

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

SPIN2010
09-01-2012, 08:48
Get a pick tag from glock for the ship.

Backfire_Tx
09-01-2012, 09:06
Just a suggestion, but perhaps you should try a different SD load. Maybe your 23 just doesn't like 165gr GD ammo. Try some different stuff and see if that corrects the problem. As for shipping, contact Glock again and tell them you need a shipping label. UPS will cost you close to $70 to ship overnight with insurance. Glock will give you a label, you just have to mention it, but I would try different ammo before sending it back. My Gen 4 23 has no issues with 180gr Winchester Ranger bonded HP ammo and that's using the Gen 4 mags. Just my two cents.

Its the principal of the thing - i want to use what LE use. Glock will make this right. When i bought the gun, they did not tell me that "some guns may not work with standard SD ammo".

SJ 40
09-01-2012, 18:12
Wow. So you shaved down the plastic in the mags, and got 2 to work? I have a #1 mag with 8 follower i picked up at gun show. Was going to fire whats left of my gold dot 165's to see if that made a difference. Problem occurs normally in the middle or near top of the 13 shot mag - it is consistent on FTF. I would like to isolate the problem to the mags and not the gun. If the #1 mag works - then i will know. I guess most people would just use larger bullet grains 180 gd, or as you suggested some other SD ammo where the shape is different.I have had zero problems with unnumbered tubes or number 1 tube with # 6 and 8 followers,they should have the SF cut out on the front of the tube.
I have come to prefer unnumbered tubes and # 5 followers and now have twenty of them.
Another thing I have picked up from a long time G Ter,ArcAngel is whenever replacing mag springs use Wolff +5 or + 10 power springs.

SKU Description Price ($) Add to cart
75371 GLOCK 19,21,23,27, +10% XP MAG SPRING Pak of 1 7.49

75373 GLOCK 19,21,23,27, +10% XP MAG SPRING Pak of 3 17.29

75374 GLOCK 19,21,23,27, +10% XP MAG SPRING Pak of 10 47.99


If it were me now that you have the #1 tube with # 8 follower try those Gold Dots and see what the results are,I think I know. SJ 40

Backfire_Tx
09-01-2012, 18:25
I have had zero problems with unnumbered tubes or number 1 tube with # 6 and 8 followers,they should have the SF cut out on the front of the tube.
I have come to prefer unnumbered tubes and # 5 followers and now have twenty of them.
Another thing I have picked up from a long time G Ter,ArcAngel is whenever replacing mag springs use Wolff +5 or + 10 power springs.

SKU Description Price ($) Add to cart
75371 GLOCK 19,21,23,27, +10% XP MAG SPRING Pak of 1 7.49

75373 GLOCK 19,21,23,27, +10% XP MAG SPRING Pak of 3 17.29

75374 GLOCK 19,21,23,27, +10% XP MAG SPRING Pak of 10 47.99


If it were me now that you have the #1 tube with # 8 follower try those Gold Dots and see what the results are,I think I know. SJ 40

I appreciate the help SJ. Thanks.

SJ 40
09-01-2012, 19:19
I appreciate the help SJ. Thanks.Like I said I got burned by the very same thing,Been there Done that !

I trimmed the protrusions at the feed lips,then smoothed that area with a Easy Lap diamond hone,fine from Brownells.
Mind you I didn't get carried away with the hone,just smoothed it up.
The Sad part is that Glock customers even have to modify faulty magazines in the first place,kind of reminds me of tuning 1911 magazines twenty five years ago. SJ 40

fourrobert13
09-01-2012, 20:27
Its the principal of the thing - i want to use what LE use. Glock will make this right. When i bought the gun, they did not tell me that "some guns may not work with standard SD ammo".

LEO's use a lot of ammo, not just 165gr GD. My dept. issues Winchester Ranger 180gr. The local sheriff's office use 155gr stuff. Another PD uses 175gr critical duty. These are all LEO ammo as well as being available to the public for self-defense. I've owned a few guns over the years that didn't like certain kinds of ammo; it happens. You can't expect the manufacturer to be able to know which ammo works and which doesn't. 165gr GD is good ammo, but there are many other choices out there that leo's use besides that particular round that work just as well or maybe better. That is all I am saying. It's your gun, do what you want. I was just making a suggestion is all.

ghostrider88
09-01-2012, 20:55
SHOOT HEAVY PER CAL. :cool:

dgbee456
09-02-2012, 00:09
Glock Perfection new Glock 23's Only shoot 180gr HST
its perfect

JBP55
09-02-2012, 02:25
Most LEA's use heavy for caliber rounds and most use Gold Dot, Ranger T, Golden Saber or HST.

Backfire_Tx
09-02-2012, 13:45
Most LEA's use heavy for caliber rounds and most use Gold Dot, Ranger T, Golden Saber or HST.

If i cannot resolve - i will switch to 180 gr gold dot's or some other possible HST, may try golden saber 165's (1150 fps). I loved the ballistics result of the gold dot 165's in ballistic gel. But alas if i cannot get the mags to work - if that is the problem, or get a free shipped label. I will just "punt" and switch to some other SD ammo. Thanks for The suggestions. I'll shoot some tomorrow with mag mods and a Glock1 8 follower mag.

Backfire_Tx
09-03-2012, 08:08
Went to the range - something tried all mags 2 follower 9's, and 1 follower 8. Problem seems to be getting worse. After 3 or so shots even the FMJ's 165's were failing to feed. I give up. Its like the spring (RSA) does not have enough tension to push the round in place. Is it possible to get a RS weak after 1000 rounds, and maybe 500 dry fires? Anyway i have attached a few pictures. Its going back. Will try and get a shipping label to save the 70 bucks. I'll send glock the photo's as well. More perfection. My only consolation is that i am getting better at hitting center mass on my metal target. I'll have to practice "throwing" the gun at the steel artzen target next.

Backfire_Tx
09-03-2012, 08:18
Photo's

Backfire_Tx
09-06-2012, 19:11
Interesting shipping experience:
Went to a FedEx store, it was "authorized" FedEx shipper. The asian guy could barely speak english, panicked and stated - Is that a gun? I said yes, and he said i cannot ship. I said yes you can either to a FFL or the manufacturer, do you see the shipping label? He saw it was going back to Smyna GA Glock. He grabbed me a box and i packed it. He asked if it was loaded. I should have said yes but resisted.

My Crippled G23 arrived this morning at Glock. I included some pictures in the box. Well see. My guess is that it needs an RSA or extractor. What else can it be. I talked to one guy on forum who said they do not check the gun to be in "spec" (spring tension ect).

Will respond back in this post when i test fire again.

Made in Austria
09-06-2012, 19:23
Looks like a magazine issue if you look closely at the pics. The follower or the mag spring seems to get stuck somewere, the top round doesn't even get a chance to get pushed up enough to be picked up by the slide as it moves forward. The round in photo #2 gets pushed against the front wall of the mag.
The rounds in picture 1 and 3 got totally ridden over by the slide.

That's clearly a mag issue if you ask me. The metal liner in the mag could be too tight so that the follower can get stuck or slowed down inside the metal liner because it doesn't have enough room to move freely, or the follower tilts somehow too much inside of the liner.

SJ 40
09-06-2012, 19:33
Looks like a magazine issue if you look closely at photo 2 and 3. The follower or the mag spring seems to get stuck somewere, the top round doesn't even get a chance to get pushed up enough to be picked up by the slide as it moves forward. The round in photo #2 gets pushed against the front wall of the mag.
The round in picture 1 and 3 got totally overridden by the slide.

That's clearly a mag issue if you ask me. The metal liner in the mag could be too tight so that the follower can get stuck inside the metal liner because it doesn't have enough room to move freely.That's what I said back in post # 2 but what do I know. SJ 40

Made in Austria
09-06-2012, 19:38
That's what I said back in post # 2 but what do I know. SJ 40

Oh sorry SJ 40, I should have read the whole thread and opened the link.

SJ 40
09-06-2012, 19:45
Oh sorry SJ 40, I should have read the whole thread and opened the link.Not a problem maybe it will help Backfire to hear it from more than one person that he doesn't know from spit.
When the rounds tend to nose dive as you stated,I think magazines.
Then mag. springs,followers,feed lips but most definitely a magazine problem. With this known problem,
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1399097
and having experienced it myself made it a easy diagnose. SJ 40

Made in Austria
09-06-2012, 20:06
Not a problem maybe it will help Backfire to hear it from more than one person that he doesn't know from spit.
When the rounds tend to nose dive as you stated,I think magazines.
Then mag. springs,followers,feed lips but most definitely a magazine problem. With this known problem,
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1399097
and having experienced it myself made it a easy diagnose. SJ 40

This has to be the problem, Voyager describes it very well.

seed
09-06-2012, 20:25
SJ 40 and Made in Austria: I agree. I had a similar problem almost 20 years ago with my early gen 2 G22 when I installed a +2 baseplate. The OEM mag springs just wimpily (fake word, I know) pushed up the last couple of rounds not high enough, causing FTF's, mostly by the front of JHP's catching the feed ramp. I got rid of the +2, installed new mag springs and then downloaded the 15 round mag to 14 rounds for HD (to minimize spring fatigue over time) and have not had any more problems.

In my Kahr MK-40 elite 98, I had multiple problems, including problems with the RSA (failures to return to battery) until I installed an extra power Wolf spring set up. Unfortunately, I then experienced FTF's because the mag springs weren't pushing up the fresh rounds fast and or forcefully enough. So I put in +10% mag springs and that solved the problem.

Mag spring tension is often overlooked and is easy to fix...if it is the problem. One should always check.

jbglock
09-06-2012, 21:19
I have a gen3 23C and have used gen4 23 mags in mine along with my older 23 mags. No issues for me and personally I'd send the gun in if there were an issue with a common defense load in it.

Backfire_Tx
09-07-2012, 04:02
Looks like a magazine issue if you look closely at the pics. The follower or the mag spring seems to get stuck somewere, the top round doesn't even get a chance to get pushed up enough to be picked up by the slide as it moves forward. The round in photo #2 gets pushed against the front wall of the mag.
The rounds in picture 1 and 3 got totally ridden over by the slide.

That's clearly a mag issue if you ask me. The metal liner in the mag could be too tight so that the follower can get stuck or slowed down inside the metal liner because it doesn't have enough room to move freely, or the follower tilts somehow too much inside of the liner..

Problem occurs in 4 magazines (ran out of money and gold dots for the 5th) - i respect the opinion in here. But need to have the gun checked - hey its new. So none of you guys own a Glock 23 gen 4 with the latest mags? If so do they all fail? I sent the gun back with 2 mags.

Interesting though, if you read the forum from others with G23 Gen 4's, they are having no issues with G2 Follower 9 mags issued with new guns. Seems logical to me to assume that mags sold with the gun should work with the gun. There may be other issues at work. I would like Glock to confirm that the Gun is in spec - if the techs are capable of that for warranty checks. If it comes back in the same condition - i will then "self medicate". Get new mags, get wolf springs - burn time and money. Who knows maybe by then i would have spent enough time and money screwing around where i could have bought a 1911 Kimber for $1500. Can you sense a bit of frustration ?

voyager4520
09-07-2012, 06:06
Hopefully Glock will run enough rounds through the gun to duplicate the problem so they can figure out what's wrong and fix it.

The pictures look a lot like the failures to feed I experienced with a G1 and G2 magazine that both had #8 followers. I had to shave the plastic protrusions down at the front of each feed lip to get them to work properly. Sometimes the round would nose down, other times it would nose up with the case head underneath and behind the breech face just like the pictures you posted. Though I do find it strange that it happened across 4 magazines for you.

Backfire_Tx
09-07-2012, 06:22
Hopefully Glock will run enough rounds through the gun to duplicate the problem so they can figure out what's wrong and fix it.

The pictures look a lot like the failures to feed I experienced with a G1 and G2 magazine that both had #8 followers. I had to shave the plastic protrusions down at the front of each feed lip to get them to work properly. Sometimes the round would nose down, other times it would nose up with the case head underneath and behind the breech face just like the pictures you posted. Though I do find it strange that it happened across 4 magazines for you.

Yes I actually shaved down 2 mags the plastic as you directed, but it did not work. I did not go radical on my reduction. What's interesting is that 180's grain did not FTF. I am not a mechanical engineer, I'm a EE. I wish glocks had a battery then maybe... Do you think it could be rsa or extractor? I was thinking a weak spring. My gun has the dip mim extractor.

voyager4520
09-07-2012, 06:29
My bet would be out-of-spec extractor, I haven't experienced it but I've seen others experience it quite a few times, they have failures to feed in a new .40 and once they replace the extractor the problems go away.

It could be the RSA as well if it's not the newest 0-3-3 version, the earlier versions had a flaw in the design of the outer metal sleeve which holds the larger spring, the muzzle end of that sleeve could deform over time and the result would be failures to feed. Here's a good picture of one that deformed:
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r175/szaino/g17gen4rsa02-1.jpg
The newer versions have that part of the sleeve beefed up.

It could be the magazines, it's unlikely for you to get 4 of them that have the plastic protrusion problem but it's possible. I had to shave mine down until they were about 1/3 of their original thickness, I know of some other people who've had to remove them entirely.

Backfire_Tx
09-07-2012, 07:24
My bet would be out-of-spec extractor, I haven't experienced it but I've seen others experience it quite a few times, they have failures to feed in a new .40 and once they replace the extractor the problems go away.

It could be the RSA as well if it's not the newest 0-3-3 version, the earlier versions had a flaw in the design of the outer metal sleeve which holds the larger spring, the muzzle end of that sleeve could deform over time and the result would be failures to feed. Here's a good picture of one that deformed:
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r175/szaino/g17gen4rsa02-1.jpg
The newer versions have that part of the sleeve beefed up.

It could be the magazines, it's unlikely for you to get 4 of them that have the plastic protrusion problem but it's possible. I had to shave mine down until they were about 1/3 of their original thickness, I know of some other people who've had to remove them entirely.

Thanks. I do have the right rsa. I had head shots with the casing and polished The extractor per instruction you gave, lightly polished. Glock sent new ejector and that fixed my head shots. I wonder if that had an effect. It seems to be floating freely-no binding.

voyager4520
09-07-2012, 10:28
Did you experience failures to feed before you replaced the ejector and polished the extractor? Sometimes the new ejectors will sit low enough to rub against the top round in the magazine, I've never heard of it causing failures to feed but in an extreme case it may be possible, and some material may need to be removed from the bottom of the ejector to allow better clearance.

Backfire_Tx
09-07-2012, 16:04
Did you experience failures to feed before you replaced the ejector and polished the extractor? Sometimes the new ejectors will sit low enough to rub against the top round in the magazine, I've never heard of it causing failures to feed but in an extreme case it may be possible, and some material may need to be removed from the bottom of the ejector to allow better clearance.

You know, I don't think I had the problem before the ejector was changed. I shot a limited number of Gold Dots but the ones i shot did not FTF (only shot 15 or so). FMJ 180's i only had 1 FTF on. But the JHP Gold Dot 165's now is about 40% FTF. It appears to be getting progressively worse. The FTF occurs After the 3rd or more shot is dispensed. I do wonder if the extractor polish has also contributed to this. But it was a light polish - just removing the black. Its loose and moves freely - unbinding, but who knows.

I'm Trying to isolate if the mag is the issue - i just dont think it is a mag. I have borrowed my friends (just found out he has a g23) G23 gen 3 with his mags. They are unnumbered mags - the kind that Sj 40 recommended. My gun is at Smyna - i will shoot his gun with same ammo 165's gold dots and see if my mags make his gun FTF.

Backfire_Tx
09-11-2012, 18:50
Went to the range tonight, and loaded my friends Glock 23 Gen 3 with Gold dot JHP 165's. I fired 39 shots NO Failure to Feed. It ain't the mags. I had marked the mags that i had failure to feed on (which were all 5). Some i had many failures on, but used his gun - no problem. All shots were "perfect". Something is wrong with my Glock 23 - and it is not my mags. Must be either the extractor or the RSA.

I am a bit worried they wont fix the gun. Must have been a friday afternoon gun. :crying:

Waiting on Glock to send my gun back. We will see then. I have spent enough money test firing this to buy a 1911 Kimber.

Backfire_Tx
09-12-2012, 21:17
It looks like they replaced the
RSA (Spring) - i already had the 0-3-3
Firing pin assembly
Extractor spring
Locking block

They just said it now met specs and they gave it an "upgrade". The extractor was not changed. I had previous changed the ejector for head boinks. I will test fire friday.

I wonder if the slide was hitting the locking block somehow? Stopping it from coming fully back. I never considered that.

clarkz71
09-13-2012, 09:07
Interesting that they changed the locking block.

Backfire_Tx
09-15-2012, 13:46
Just got back from range, Shot ~ 50 Rounds. 30 Gold Dot 165 JHP, and 20 lawman 165 FMJ.

They (Glock) improved it. From a 20% failure rate. I only had 3 fail to feeds (FTF) out of 50 rounds. It FTF'ed with 2 Gold Dot and 1 Lawman fmj. But I am bummed out. My friends Gen 3 eats the gold dots in my mags - no problem.

When it came back they also replaced 2 mags, it failed in those mags that were new (Mag G2, follower 9). This may be the best i can do with the gun. I doubt the extractor is the issue, probably a messed up slide or something. I may sell it, or try 180 grain to see as suggested in here. I'm bummed out on this. With all the shooting i've done test firing this, i'm actually hitting center mass fairly consistent.

Made in Austria
09-15-2012, 14:53
That sucks. I wish I would live closer to Texas, so we can swap out parts out of my gen4 G23 till it stops FTFing.

MikeG36
09-15-2012, 15:01
Sorry to hear this. A 6% failure rate is unacceptable. I could never trust my life to it so it would be useless to me. I'd ask for a replacement and if they refused I'd sell it (with full disclosure) and get something else. Good luck....

Mike

Backfire_Tx
09-15-2012, 16:44
Sorry to hear this. A 6% failure rate is unacceptable. I could never trust my life to it so it would be useless to me. I'd ask for a replacement and if they refused I'd sell it (with full disclosure) and get something else. Good luck....

Mike

Thanks, not sure how to proceed. I wish i had not shot my friends Gen 3. Then I would have thought i was limp wristing it. I just think i got a lemon. Could order an extractor - they are cheap - about 1/2 cost of gold dots.

MikeG36
09-15-2012, 17:37
Thanks, not sure how to proceed. I wish i had not shot my friends Gen 3. Then I would have thought i was limp wristing it. I just think i got a lemon. Could order an extractor - they are cheap - about 1/2 cost of gold dots.

Call Glock and tell them the reliability improved but it's still having issues. Let them try again and if it's not fixed right this time then demand (nicely) that they send you a replacement.

Good luck!

Mike

Backfire_Tx
09-17-2012, 15:02
Put another 50 thru this morning. No ftf issues. I will throw another 100 later in week. Its definately improved. I think a 180 grain good sd ammo as suggested in here, will also help. My working theory is that rsa had an issue, they changed that. Also, the hot loads 165 1150 fps also means that you better be locking your wrist. If you get lazy the gun is "unforgiving". Meaning it is prone to ftf - better than it was, but still prone to it. There is a great "limp wrist" video where a guy compares 4 gun manufactorers - holds the gun side ways and fires. The glock nearly 50% jambs. Especially when compared to sig, MP and other guns. When I shot My friends gen 3 it did not jamb once - with what i have been using for my "normal" grip. But I think some g23's may - epecially gen 4's. Will fire more and do the sideways limpwrist thing, to see if it ftf's. But I am hopefull problem may be fixed, the glock gun upgrade. I'll see I've been dupped before. More rounds required.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Jh9JhCyFFxA&NR=1

Gen4 Fan
09-18-2012, 13:40
1st time to ship a firearm. My Glock 23 gen 4 has a failure to feed problem when i started to practice with SD ammo. I use Gold dot 165's 1150 fps. Problem does not any FMJ lawman 165's or 180 FMJ of any cheap brand - probably 900 rounds shot through Gun. And no - It's is not magazine specific, problem occurs with multiple magazines. Very frustrated - had to previous have a new ejector sent to armorer to fix the ejections to the head.


Ok Fed-ex or UPS? Can i ship it in the standard glock case? I guess you can correct and just take out insurance? What say you Glock mighty experts?

Thread below shows process in attempt to correct Failure to feed issue

Glock sent me a label when I returned mine. I put it in my Glock case and that in a box. Took it to an Office Max. No problem.

Here are the FedEx rules.
Mainly

Priority Overnight
Direct Signature or Adult Signature required.
Don't put "Firearm" on box
Tell them it's a firearm when you give it to them.

http://www.fedex.com/us/service-guide/terms/express-ground/?qgroup=toggle-c1&qid=Firearms

Made in Austria
09-18-2012, 14:17
Put another 50 thru this morning. No ftf issues. I will throw another 100 later in week. Its definately improved. I think a 180 grain good sd ammo as suggested in here, will also help. My working theory is that rsa had an issue, they changed that. Also, the hot loads 165 1150 fps also means that you better be locking your wrist. If you get lazy the gun is "unforgiving". Meaning it is prone to ftf - better than it was, but still prone to it. There is a great "limp wrist" video where a guy compares 4 gun manufactorers - holds the gun side ways and fires. The glock nearly 50% jambs. Especially when compared to sig, MP and other guns. When I shot My friends gen 3 it did not jamb once - with what i have been using for my "normal" grip. But I think some g23's may - epecially gen 4's. Will fire more and do the sideways limpwrist thing, to see if it ftf's. But I am hopefull problem may be fixed, the glock gun upgrade. I'll see I've been dupped before. More rounds required.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Jh9JhCyFFxA&NR=1

The gun should cycle both 180 and 160gr bullets reliable. My wife limp wrist's our gen4 G19 and the gen4 G23 all the time, even though I showed her how to hold it right. I guess she is still scared. Anyway, both models never jamed when she shot them. We shoot 160gr SD and target rounds only. Glock .40's are less prone to limp wristing than the 9mm versions.

I have tried to limp wrist all of my Glock models, non of them ever jamed. I am not saying it can't happen. Maybe one has to fire it with three fingers only to make it jam, like in the video above. I have tried to shoot my gen4 G23 with only three fingers and it did not jam.

I wouldn't look for excuses for why your gun was acting up, even after it came back from Glock. You need to keep testing both bullet weights until you trust it. You might even have to sell it or sending it back to Glock again.

G36's Rule
09-18-2012, 14:19
Photo's

Your photos are pretty interesting. When I found my problem with the G23 "1" mags several years ago where I shaved down the tabs under the feed lips I was seeing nose diving.

You posted pics of two failures to feed with the slide overrunning the cartridge rim. That usually indicates either weak mag springs or too strong a recoil spring... Or poor shooter basics. Your using your mags in a Gen. 3 gun with success eliminates the mags as the issue.

Have you had anyone else shoot your pistol?

Backfire_Tx
09-18-2012, 18:06
The gun should cycle both 180 and 160gr bullets reliable. My wife limp wrist's our gen4 G19 and the gen4 G23 all the time, even though I showed her how to hold it right. I guess she is still scared. Anyway, both models never jamed when she shot them. We shoot 160gr SD and target rounds only. Glock .40's are less prone to limp wristing than the 9mm versions.

I have tried to limp wrist all of my Glock models, non of them ever jamed. I am not saying it can't happen. Maybe one has to fire it with three fingers only to make it jam, like in the video above. I have tried to shoot my gen4 G23 with only three fingers and it did not jam.




I wouldn't look for excuses for why your gun was acting up, even after it came back from Glock. You need to keep testing both bullet weights until you trust it. You might even have to sell it or sending it back to Glock again.

I have tried to limp wrist and could not get it to fail on command. I have not tried what the dude on the link does. But gun was screwed up prior to me sending back to glock. I need more testing. Another 50 bucks. Like you said its a trust issue.

Check the link out above. The guy actually "flips" the gun backwards to fail jamb the gun. I have no issues with my buds gen 3 40 cal. I may buy his gun if I can't get this resolved, once I try to get gun replaced. Need a few more rounds to determine next step.

beforeobamabans
09-18-2012, 18:43
This thread reminds me of the early '09 30SF issues. No, Backfire, you are not crazy, or limpwristing. There is problem with your gun. My Gen4 23 has worked perfectly from round one, just like my 9mms. My 30SF finally "wore-in" after a thousand rounds or so.

Backfire_Tx
09-18-2012, 22:14
This thread reminds me of the early '09 30SF issues. No, Backfire, you are not crazy, or limpwristing. There is problem with your gun. My Gen4 23 has worked perfectly from round one, just like my 9mms. My 30SF finally "wore-in" after a thousand rounds or so.

If the darn thing does it again, its going back. I'll request - politely - a replacement. Appreciate the feedback folks.

Backfire_Tx
09-23-2012, 15:48
I shot another Box of Gold Dot 165's. No Failures to feed. One thing i did was to change the backstrap on the gun, to a "medium" grip. It was the default small. I started looking at the Glock 23 gen 3 grip of my friends and decided that it was a better fit for my hand. I also started using a modified weaver (Hickok45 uses that - guys amazing shooter) grip instead of isosceles - where the weak hand pulls back against strong hand (60%, 40).

No FTF. I only shot 36 shots - will continue to test. But it appears that the combination of New RSA and the replacement parts, and a larger grip surface along with Weaver stance may be it. While i would like to know for certain what was the problem its probably not going to happen. My best guess was that gun was defective with RSA or some other issue (30-40% failure rate), but the intermittent FTF (6%) once gun was received was potentially due to my grip - on the Glock 23 gen 4 it is an important factor. I believe that some guns are more prone to that. Some manufacturer tolerance issue.

Again, if gun FTF's again i will comment on the post, but i am slowly getting my confidence back in the gun. I wanted to post my results for others that may be having similar issues. Do not ignore the grip and get the gun to fit correct in your hand if you have FTF or jamming problems. I will continue to test using hot loads (1150 fps), along with deliberately trying to get a FTF. Maybe provide some video. I am a rookie at semi auto's handguns and have learned a lot through this. My advice to those that have FTF issues is borrow a gun from someone who has a working Gen 4 or Gen 3 23 as SJ 40 post suggested.

Backfire_Tx
11-26-2012, 18:42
I have been getting intermittent FTF with the Weapon. But far and few in between - but still enough to make you lack confidence (outside of the first shot).

I went to south texas and shot with my cousin - just retired army (Tank Commander, black hawk pilot). He knows how to handle a weapon. Guess what? It jambs multiple times on him using lawman 165's. I watched him shoot and the muzzle flip was minimal. He had control of the weapon. Next i shot 100 rounds of cheapo federal Champion 180's fmj's. I also had 3 FTF's. I even got one ejected casing to "nail" me in the forehead that raised a bump and drew blood.

I already fought that battle and thought i had a solution for that, a new ejector. But the war apparently goes on.

I ordered a new extractor from lone wolf - and will give it one more try. If still FTF's i am going to send it back and demand another Gen 4 23. I must just have a lemon. I get a kick out of all the "Glock studs" who brag about Glock perfection - you know, "I shot 10,000 never had one failure". I guess without a reference point - i was driven to go this long before i threw in the towel. BTW multiple mags the FTF occurred. Gun must be out of spec.

Backfire_Tx
12-01-2012, 17:12
Went to the range and shot another 50 rounds. 3 Jambs (FTF's) using 2 different mags. 2 Different types of ammo. (Lawman 165's and 180 Federal Champion fmj's). Good news the new lone wolf extractor worked fine - no head casings (probably need more rounds shots to get cocky). Bad news is it still jambs. Bullet looks like it is in the left side of the feed ramp.

Its going back and i have had it. Will demand a replacement. It is not limp wrist, ammo, mags, extractor or solar eclipse. Its a lemmon Glock. Jambs on other experienced shooters and my mags do not jamb in my friends glock 23 gen 3. 1500 rounds and 3/4's of a year later i am out of gas trying to make it a consistent SD gun.

Made in Austria
12-01-2012, 18:38
Sorry to hear that. That the bullet gets stuck on the left side of the feed ramp made me think for a while, but, I came up with a theory.

Could it be that the "nose" of the trigger bar which pushes the firing pin safety block upward (not sure what it's called in English) is bent too far inward/to the left? If that nose is sitting too far left then it might kick the bullet to the left while the slide is trying to chamber the round. The space is already very tight in a cal. 40 between the round and that nose during the chambering process. You might compare the trigger bar with a trigger bar from another Glock to see if there is anything out of the ordinary.


http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/wolfgun/triggerbar2.jpg


http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/wolfgun/triggerbar1.jpg

Backfire_Tx
12-01-2012, 19:19
Sorry to hear that. That the bullet gets stuck on the left side of the feed ramp made me think for a while, but, I came up with a theory.

Could it be that the "nose" of the trigger bar which pushes the firing pin safety block upward (not sure what it's called in English) is bent too far inward/to the left? If that nose is sitting too far left then it might kick the bullet to the left while the slide is trying to chamber the round. The space is already very tight in a cal. 40 between the round and that nose during the chambering process. You might compare the trigger bar with a trigger bar from another Glock to see if there is anything out of the ordinary.


http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/wolfgun/triggerbar2.jpg


http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd419/wolfgun/triggerbar1.jpg

I'll Check tomorrow. I had an armorer replace the trigger assembly when the ejector was changed out. There even is a mark on the upper part of the feed ramp where bullets have hit. I noticed this just today as i was staring at it in disbelief again.

Backfire_Tx
12-01-2012, 19:45
Do not see anything obvious. The trigger bar is against the slide - maybe just a hair of space. There is a small bump on the one side of it. You are correct without a compare with another glock hard to tell. I could bend it slightly and fire another 50 rounds to check. I am just out of it. Last time it went back they changed a bunch of parts - don't think the trigger assembly.

Backfire_Tx
12-03-2012, 17:15
Called Glock to send it back for round 2. He would not replace the gun. And challenged the gun was jamming. He said they test fired 50 rounds and it was fine for them. He pushed on the ammo type i was using. He did not previously replace the RSA - i was wrong on that. Hard to tell from the "tested and met spec" comment in the packed sheet.

He did send RMA and i will try this again. What a boondoggle.

Backfire_Tx
01-05-2013, 08:10
Just received a "new" Glock 23 factory test fire date 11-14-2012. I was shocked and impressed. In All my troubles i had I fired probably 2000 rounds on the defective Glock. Alas, i cannot find ammo last night to test fire new Glock - at 2 walmarts in 2 different cities. Amazing. Everyone thinks that the "black helicopters" are coming to take weapons away. I need factory ammo to test fire gun. Online most of the 40 cal 165's are gone.

But i never expected Glock to replace the gun. Very impressed. Especially if the new glock works as expected. I was going to Dallas gun show today to buy a Kahr CM9 for a pocket gun also. But now i'll wait for the Glock announcement due in a few days, i'll bet they get something to compete with the Nano, Shield, and CM9.

JakeFromStateFarm
01-05-2013, 09:01
Congrats on the new 23. Glock can be
Generous when they want to.

Made in Austria
01-05-2013, 09:29
Grats on the new 23!

I always wondered what is wrong with those newer Glocks which Glock replaces with even newer Glocks. It sure must be something nobody should know about, since they never name any reasons of why they replace entire guns.

Backfire_Tx
01-30-2013, 21:34
Received 500 rounds from SGammo. Hurrah! "No more failure to feeds". Shot 200 and gun performs as expect. 1 slight issue, out of 200 shots had 2 BTF's (On top of head). I can live with that - maybe literally. I just could not deal with the gun jamming on the feeding into chamber. I ordered a lone wolf Non dipped extractor i can try that and see if the ejections are better. But the gun is functional as far as i can see. Old mags work fine. It was not a limp wristing issue. The previous gun had issues. So...


I am back to dinking with the ejector issue - a nice hobby. I did count the ejection casing pattern on ground - out of 100 about 50% were @ 3:00. But a bunch were between 5:00 and 6:00 as well. Will try the lone wolf extractor next.

DeLo
01-30-2013, 22:10
Glad to hear it!

Backfire_Tx
05-17-2013, 21:37
No BTF or any failure to feeds. New gun solved problem.

HKLovingIT
05-17-2013, 21:50
No BTF or any failure to feeds. New gun solved problem.


That great news! Frustrating when things aren't working right and expensive to test out.

Backfire_Tx
10-23-2013, 17:22
2000 more rounds no failure to feed. Shoot lead and have a new KKM barrel. Reloading now with a dillon 550b.Need to buy one for my wife now. It will be a Glock. For a while there i was ready to dump the gun and go to S&W or XD.

Backfire_Tx
03-28-2014, 20:34
Gun is amazing - added 10-8 sights and fiber optics. Shoot 3.6 grains of wst with lead KKM barrel for lite loads. Glad i did not abandon Glock. I guess the moral of the saga, is when it works it always does.

ShannonGTO
06-30-2014, 06:48
Updates

Backfire_Tx
06-30-2014, 16:11
Still working great. Shooting reloads now - made some 165 very lite target plate loads...still flawless. On very rare occasion - it will shuck a casing and nail my forehead. It just lets me know it cares.