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Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 08:57
Did my firstreloads last night (30 rounds). Loading 165grain .40 S&W. However, I cannotget a consistent powder drop. I am using Hodgdon HP-38 powder. Like I said,this was my first reloads. HP-38 is the only powder I have. HP-38 is alsoclearly listed in my Lee reloading manual.

I am following the manual it is recommended to use the .43 disk opening. Butthat through way too much power. All the loads with the .43 were near, or overthe recommended max load. So, I changed to the .40 disk opening. But it is droppingjust below the starting powder load.

WTF! I don't want to load powder my hand. And I cannot change to a totallydifferent brand of equipment. I am just starting out.

What can I do to get a consistent powder charge with the above gear???
Should I fire the 30 rounds I already made???

ColoCG
09-01-2012, 09:12
Did my first reloads last night (30 rounds). Loading 165grain .40 S&W. However, I cannot get a consistant powder drop. I am using Hodgdon HP-38 powder. Like I said, this was my first reloads. HP-38 is the only powder I have. HP-38 is also clearly listed in my Lee reloading manual.

I am following the manual it is recomended to use the .43 disk opening. But that through way too much power. All the loads with the .43 were near, or over the recomended max load. So, I changed to the .40 disk opening. But is throughing just below the starting powder load.

WTF! I don't want to load powder my hand. And I cannot change to a totally different brand of equipment. I am just starting out.

What can I do to get a consistant powder charge with the above gear???
Should I fire the 30 rounds I already made???

HELP!


The list of correct discs for powder loads is not usually correct. It usually throws light charges depending on powder type.

Weigh your charges for the volume give if it is too heavy try the next one lower if the charge is too light go higher. You need to let your powder scale tell you which disc is correct for the load you want.
Once you find the right one it usually throws consistent chages for that load.

waawaaweenie
09-01-2012, 09:28
I replaced the discs in mine with the Adjustable Powder Charge Bar and it gives you infinite adjustment. also you may want to wipe the inside of the plastic powder storage chamber down with a laundry dryer anti static fabric sheet to keep the powder from hanging up. you also should weigh your charges to be sure, and safe.
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/150/150005.jpg (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/150005/lee-auto-disk-adjustable-powder-charge-bar)

ColoCG
09-01-2012, 09:30
You could also try the Lee adjustable powder measure for in beteen charges. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/150005/lee-auto-disk-adjustable-powder-charge-ba

It doesn't work real good with very light loads.

Wash-ar15
09-01-2012, 09:49
.40 throws 4.3 and 43 throws 4.6 is what i see. i would make some at the 4.3 and see how they work in your gun. they may or may not cycle.

One thing i have found, and you take it for what its worth, is that these days data is very conservative. what was max load now. may have been starting load in the past.

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 10:09
I replaced the discs in mine with the Adjustable Powder Charge Bar and it gives you infinite adjustment. also you may want to wipe the inside of the plastic powder storage chamber down with a laundry dryer anti static fabric sheet to keep the powder from hanging up. you also should weigh your charges to be sure, and safe.
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/150/150005.jpg (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/150005/lee-auto-disk-adjustable-powder-charge-bar)

Cool, the dryer sheet sound like an excellent idea. I just wiped down my equipment with one. Thanks!

Regarding the adjustable powder measure, does it replace the disks? Do you use one?

Wash-ar15
09-01-2012, 10:19
be real careful when using the adjustable charge bar with light loads. You might find it might drop light or nothing if powder clogs it up.

I threw mine in the garbage after i noticed some cases with no powder

dkf
09-01-2012, 10:19
I primarily use power pistol which thus far has metered well in my Pro Auto Disk. However the hole size Lee recommended was off quite a bit. For the powder charge I needed I had to go 3 hole sizes over what was recommended so it would throw that charge.

You will have to do some experimenting. It is best when setting up the measure charge to run the press as you would when you are actually making ammo. Run at least 10 charges through before you even start measuring the charge to settle everything. Just use primed cases to catch the powder and dump it back in the hopper.

Some powders meter better than others. I have the double disk kit, adjustable charge bar and micro disk kit on hand just in case I need them. But for the most part just use one disc.

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 10:38
.40 throws 4.3 and 43 throws 4.6 is what i see. i would make some at the 4.3 and see how they work in your gun. they may or may not cycle.

One thing i have found, and you take it for what its worth, is that these days data is very conservative. what was max load now. may have been starting load in the past.

I was seeing much higher drops with the recommended disk. I weighted each drop. That is when I went to the smaller disk opening (.40). The .40 disk opening dropped below the starting loads.

So, I am getting either too much or too little powder. .40 and .43 are as close as I can get with the disk set that came with the Lee Auto desk powder measure.

Everything I am reading says not to use loads that ball below the starting charge and not to use loads that are above the max charge. So, I donít know what to do at this point. It seems that none of my loads are usable. Right?

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 10:41
be real careful when using the adjustable charge bar with light loads. You might find it might drop light or nothing if powder clogs it up.

I threw mine in the garbage after i noticed some cases with no powder

I inspected each case, after each drop, just to be sure I was getting powder. I am sure I have no empty rounds.

Berlin Kid
09-01-2012, 11:05
I just got my Auto Disk and haven't used it. I believe that I have read where you should run a pound of powder through the unit before using it. I'm expecting that the experienced reloaders here can address whether this is true.

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 11:26
Not a fan of the adjustable charge bar for light charges. I have had issues with bridging. Here are some threads that could help.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1380989&highlight=LCT

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1376213&highlight=LCT

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 11:30
Yeah, the Auto desk is a great tool. As a new loader, I kind of expected that all the gear would work as shown on hundreds of YouTube videos I have watched and the forums like this one. But you never know what what you don't know until you start trying it for yourself. I am starting to look at the Micrometer powder disk that Lee sells. I can only hope that solves my problem.

So far, none of my loads are per load weight as shown in the Lee reloading manuals. They are all light, less than 4.8 grains of Hodgdon HP-38. I am shooting .40 S&W using 165 grain flat noise jacketed rounds.

I know my digital scale is correct. I have tested it with known weights. the scale is consistent. My problem is the loads coming out of the Lee Auto Desk.

dkf
09-01-2012, 11:33
You could always try opening up the .40 hole on the disk a little with some finer grit sandpaper.

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 11:39
So far, none of my loads are per load weight as shown in the Lee reloading manuals. They are all light, less than 4.8 grains of Hodgdon HP-38. I am shooting .40 S&W using 165 grain flat noise jacketed rounds.

I know my digital scale is correct. I have tested it with known weights. the scale is consistent. My problem is the loads coming out of the Lee Auto Desk.

Ignore the suggested disc size. Its never right. Be careful with the adjustable charge bar. You have been warned. Buy a extra kit and open the .4 up or do the mod in the link.

ColoCG
09-01-2012, 12:23
Cool, the dryer sheet sound like an excellent idea. I just wiped down my equipment with one. Thanks!

Regarding the adjustable powder measure, does it replace the disks? Do you use one?

Yes the adjustable powder measure replaces the other disks. Depending on powder type and size of load, it can have problems as stated with light loads of bulky powders. Usually above about 4 to 5gr the drop is good.

My .46 disk drops4.8gr. of ww231 similar to hp38 and my .49disk drops 5.2gr of ww231.

What load are you trying to achieve. and what type of press are you using the powder measure on?

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 13:14
My book shows 231 and a 165 gr bullet in .40 as a range of 5.2 to 5.8. You should be able to get a stock disc to work with that powder.

sig357fan
09-01-2012, 13:18
I use the adjustable powder bar with an auto disk powder measure, but only with ball powders and Iíve never used it below 3.0 gr. of Win 231 and have always gotten good results.

ButÖ..

Set up is important for good results.

I do use the dryer sheet and run several charges through went the powder measure is new.

I reload pistol rounds on a LCT press and start by adjusting the charge bar, without moving from the charging station, until I can throw 5 identical charges in a row, then Iíll run the press through the full cycle, weighting each charge until I get another 5 identical charges of the weight I want to reload, then Iíll check every 10th round to make sure all is well.

I tend to stay at the lower end of the recommended weight, Iíve loaded thousands of rounds this way without any problems, but if Iím reloading at the high end of the recommended weight as in a hunting load, Iíll weight each charge.

Sig357fan

WiskyT
09-01-2012, 16:09
The difference between the 0.40cc and 0.43cc cavity is 0.3 grains with 231/HP38. How one be too high and the other too low is beyond my comprehension.

The adjustable disc defeats the whole purpose of the Autodisc system. The beauty of it is that it can't come out of adjustment. You can't bump it, vibrate it, whatever to get it to wander because the discs are fixed. By using that adjustable disc, you just add more opportunites for human error to screw you up. Also, at small settings, with flake powders, it is useless.

OP, your description of what is going on leads me to believe that you need to learn a little more about the whole process of reloading before you start looking to your gear as the source of your problems. I'm not trying to flame you, but you talk about a lack of consistency and then describe a situation that has nothing to with consistency.

The Lee disc system is very consistent with ball powder like 231/HP38.

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 16:26
Yes the adjustable powder measure replaces the other disks. Depending on powder type and size of load, it can have problems as stated with light loads of bulky powders. Usually above about 4 to 5gr the drop is good.

My .46 disk drops4.8gr. of ww231 similar to hp38 and my .49disk drops 5.2gr of ww231.

What load are you trying to achieve. and what type of press are you using the powder measure on?

I am using a Lee Classic turret press.
I am trying to drop loads for .40S&W 165 grain bullets.
My Lee manual calls for a starting load of not less than 4.8 and not more than 5.3.
I am using HP-38 powder.

The manual calls for Auto disk .43. However the .43 disk is dropping more than 5.8 for starters. I move to the .40 disk, but the .40 disk is dropping to little powder, less than 4.8 for starters.

WiskyT
09-01-2012, 16:31
I am using a Lee Classic turret press.
I am trying to drop loads for .40S&W 165 grain pullets.
My Lee manual calls for a starting load of not less than 4.6 and not more than 5.3.
I am using HP-38 powder.

The manual calls for Auto disk .43. However the .43 disk is dropping more than 5.8 for starters. I move to the .40 disk, but the .40 disk is dropping to little powder, less than 4.8 for starters.

Something is very wrong. I found that the Lee disc volume was almost one to one with the weight in grains. 0.43cc threw 4.3 grains. I don't know what you could be doing to get 5.8 grains of HP-38 to fall from the 0.43cc cavity. Even if you were compressing it in there it shouldn't be anywhere near that heavy.

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 17:18
Read those two links I posted on how to run the LCT. You have to be consistent in what you do. Also 4.8 is just a little above starting for your manual. Look at hodgons website to get a second source. You should get a third manual as well. I think you just don't know how to get started and run the equipment. PM me if you want help.

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 18:03
I am sure it is something I am doing wrong. Maybe my scale is drifting,though I've scaled the test weight several times, and all seems well. I willrun several powder drops and record exactly what is passing through the twodisk openings I am working with.

I'll post my exact numbers on this thread.

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 18:27
Did you read the links? You need to pull the handle the same each time and pull it 4 times for each powder drop.

Kentguy
09-01-2012, 18:31
Gpruitt54,

I use a LEE Classic Turret Press with the Auto Disk Measure as well and no your not crazy. I run into this all the time. Some of the charge amounts I find work best don't always correspond to the amount you will get from the disks. What I do get from the charge amount given is very consistent time and time again.

In your case (for example) if you wish 5.0g of HP-38 powder you have two options - either drop down to #40 disk and weight each round, use your yellow scooper (came with the set of LEE dies) to trickle the exact charge you need. or use the adjustable powder measure.

The system is not really designed for individual charge amounts. You kinda have to take what they give you. It sucks but thats the system that comes with the Auto Disk.

you could try testing your charge amount that correspond to the LEE Auto Disks and see if those amounts give you the feel and accuracy you are looking for. This way if you want to make a large production run you can just set it up and go.

Good luck

waawaaweenie
09-01-2012, 18:49
Ihave also heard of adjusting the holes in the discs

like making a smaller one a tad bit bigger or using hot glue or something like that to reduce the size of a larger one down to get things just right

I use the adjustable charge bar with Power Pistol for 9, 40 and 45acp with good results on a classic cast turret but not auto indexing

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 18:56
Sanding a smaller hole larger is a good idea. Hot glue could fall off at some point leading to overcharged cases. Or you could read the link I posted and see a easy way to get an adjustable hole.

WiskyT
09-01-2012, 18:59
Sanding a smaller hole larger is a good idea. Hot glue could fall off at some point leading to overcharged cases. Or you could read the link I posted and see a easy way to get an adjustable hole.

He doesn't need to sand his discs. He's getting 5.8 grains in a cavity that can't possibly hold more than 4.5. Either his scale is ****ed, his powder is dripping wet, or he's wrong about the cavity he is using.

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 19:08
He doesn't need to sand his discs. He's getting 5.8 grains in a cavity that can't possibly hold more than 4.5. Either his scale is ****ed, his powder is dripping wet, or he's wrong about the cavity he is using.

How do you know what he is getting? Sanding the disc is to get a in between setting. If he wants it.

WiskyT
09-01-2012, 19:32
How do you know what he is getting? Sanding the disc is to get a in between setting. If he wants it.

I read. He posted 5.8 grains with the 0.43cc cavity. That can't be, even if he was packing the cavity with a dowel and a hand sledge.

F106 Fan
09-01-2012, 19:58
What WiskyT said...

The VMD of HP-39 is 0.0926 cc/gr. So, for a 0.43 cc cavity we get: 0.43cc / 0.0926 cc/gr => 4.64 gr

As a cross check with the Lee dipper table, a 0.5 cc dipper throws 5.4 gr. Matches my calculator and the table.

VMD value from "Modern Reloading Second Edition" by Richard Lee.

Richard

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 20:02
I have never found those table to be accurate. I have found I sometimes have to go up two cavity sizes to match what the drop should be.

WiskyT
09-01-2012, 20:23
I have never found those table to be accurate. I have found I sometimes have to go up two cavity sizes to match what the drop should be.

Exactly, and the OP has his cavity grossly over charging, the exact opposite of every user of this measure.

Like F106 posted, 0.43cc theoretically throws 4.6 grains. IME, that cavity throws 4.3 grains. HTF is the OP getting 5.8 grains?

Wash-ar15
09-01-2012, 20:26
I have never found those table to be accurate. I have found I sometimes have to go up two cavity sizes to match what the drop should be.

I have found the table to be accurate with certain powders.

WST/WSF/700x/BE throw as listed for me.

I would suggest you might get a beam scale to verify your digital scale is correct.

RustyFN
09-01-2012, 20:30
I am sure it is something I am doing wrong. Maybe my scale is drifting,though I've scaled the test weight several times, and all seems well. I willrun several powder drops and record exactly what is passing through the twodisk openings I am working with.

I'll post my exact numbers on this thread.

One thing I have found is when I am testing my first ten powder drops to make sure I have the right disk and it's consistant is you have to cycle the handle so the turret will rotate back around to the powder die. The vibration of the turret rotating helps the powder settle in the disk. If you keep running a case in and out and weighing the powder the drops will be more inconsistant.

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 20:38
I have found the table to be accurate with certain powders.

WST/WSF/700x/BE throw as listed for me.

I would suggest you might get a beam scale to verify your digital scale is correct.

I have a Dillon Beam and check weights. I know it's accurate.

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 20:51
Something is very wrong. I found that the Lee disc volume was almost one to one with the weight in grains. 0.43cc threw 4.3 grains. I don't know what you could be doing to get 5.8 grains of HP-38 to fall from the 0.43cc cavity. Even if you were compressing it in there it shouldn't be anywhere near that heavy.

OK, I just spent some time taking measurements of a series of drops. All powder drops were performed using the same case. For each drop, the press was cycled in the same way. Here is what I recorded.

.49 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .49 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.6, 3)5.6, 4)5.6, 5)5.6, 6)5.8, 7)5.8, 8)5.8, 9)5.8, 10)5.8, 11)5.2, 12)5.2, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.8, 18)5.6, 19)5.8, 20)5.8

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.2, 4)5.2, 5)5.0, 6)4.8, 7)4.8, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.2, 11)5.2, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.0, 18)5.0, 19)5.2, 20)5.4

Are these normal readings? Anybody?

Wash-ar15
09-01-2012, 20:51
I have a Dillon Beam and check weights. I know it's accurate.

I aplogize. The reply was directed for the OP

unclebob
09-01-2012, 20:53
I would suggest you might get a beam scale to verify your digital scale is correct.

Without check weights how would you know the beam scale is correct? You just need check weights not another scale.

WiskyT
09-01-2012, 20:54
OK, I just spent some time taking measurements of a series of drops. Here is what I recorded.

.49 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .49 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.6, 3)5.6, 4)5.6, 5)5.6, 6)5.8, 7)5.8, 8)5.8, 9)5.8, 10)5.8, 11)5.2, 12)5.2, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.8, 18)5.6, 19)5.8, 20)5.8

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.2, 4)5.2, 5)5.0, 6)4.8, 7)4.8, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.2, 11)5.2, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.0, 18)5.0, 19)5.2, 20)5.4


Is your HVAC running?

unclebob
09-01-2012, 20:58
OK, I just spent some time taking measurements of a series of drops. Here is what I recorded.

.49 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .49 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.6, 3)5.6, 4)5.6, 5)5.6, 6)5.8, 7)5.8, 8)5.8, 9)5.8, 10)5.8, 11)5.2, 12)5.2, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.8, 18)5.6, 19)5.8, 20)5.8

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.2, 4)5.2, 5)5.0, 6)4.8, 7)4.8, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.2, 11)5.2, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.0, 18)5.0, 19)5.2, 20)5.4

Are you using the same case or a different case each time?

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 21:05
Are you using the same case or a different case each time?

I am using the same case for all measurements and for both disks. I am cycling the press the same way for each drop.

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 21:07
Is your HVAC running?

Yes. I reload in my cool and perfectly dry basement.

zebramochaman
09-01-2012, 21:13
In my limited experiences with the Lee disc system, usually the powder drop is lower than the minimum load. I just go up one disc at a time until I measure what I want. However, I did recently reload 9mm Makarov rounds using a disc with a larger cavity than the recommended disc (I did not have the recommended disk). The charge measured below the Max so I went with it. Range results proved a Super-Hot and accurate round. These loads were so hot that all of the cases were charred and there were a couple of unintended double taps due to recoil. It was fun shooting these rounds but I was a little more than concerned about over pressure. I was shooting a CZ-82.

Colorado4Wheel
09-01-2012, 21:36
I am using the same case for all measurements and for both disks. I am cycling the press the same way for each drop.

4 pulls of the handle for each drop?

F106 Fan
09-01-2012, 22:02
Yes. I reload in my cool and perfectly dry basement.

I think the comment was made because if you have any kind of breeze or you make any motion in front of the scale, it will add 0.2 gr or more if the scale lacks a wind screen.

What kind of scale are you using?

Richard

Gpruitt54
09-01-2012, 22:05
4 pulls of the handle for each drop?

??? I am testing and attempting to get a consistent weight of powder. I am using a Lee Classic turret press. For each drop, I position the powder die under the case and raise the ram and actuate the powder action to drop the charge.

So, that's one pull for each powder drop. You can see just how inconsistent my powder drops are. They seem (at least to me) all over the place.

sig357fan
09-02-2012, 02:40
do you have your scale sitting on the bench you have your press mounted to? the vibration caused when operating your press may have an effect on your scale.

any air movement around your bench? fan running near by? AC vent blowing in the direction of your bench?

with a beam scale I could see the beam move when I had it sitting on my bench when I was operation the press or when the fan for the heat/AC kicked on.

I mountied my scale on a small shelf at eye level above my bench and had to tape of the vent under my bench to prevent movement.

I don't think you'd be able to see movement on a digital scale the way you can see it on a beam scale but try leaving your check weight on the scale when you cycle your press to see if your scale drifts.

sig357fan

sig357fan
09-02-2012, 02:53
??? I am testing and attempting to get a consistent weight of powder. I am using a Lee Classic turret press. For each drop, I position the powder die under the case and raise the ram and actuate the powder action to drop the charge.

So, that's one pull for each powder drop. You can see just how inconsistent my powder drops are. They seem (at least to me) all over the place.

Try running the press through a full cycle (raise/lower the ram and index to the next station, all the way around) with a different case for each powder drop and then check the weight of the powder only.

Running the press through the full cycle tends to even things out and seeing as the powder measure is actuated by the case as it drops the powder charge and flares the case for the bullet seating operation, using the same flared case over and over again may be causing some inconsistency in the powder drop.

sig357fan

sig357fan
09-02-2012, 03:10
Gpruitt54,

about the only other thing I can think of is if there is an issue with your powder.

how old is the powder?

was the bottle sealed when you first opened it?

have you kept it closed in a cool dry area?

pour some out on a piece of paper, is it clumped together?

what does it smell like?

take a pinch between your thumb and finger and roll it around, does it say in grain form or does it crumble?

thats about all I got.

sig357fan

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 05:19
There is too much BS going on here. The OP claims to be getting 5.8 grains of 231 thrown from the 0.43cc cavity. When I point out that this is impossible, he never addresses that. Then, later in the thread, he claims to be throwing 5.8 from the 0.49cc cavity (still impossible BTW). Either this guy is a troll and none of this is actually happening, or his avatar is causing him to be too stoned to know what is going on.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 08:02
Check the charge just as if you are loading. When you load on a LCT you pull the handle four times for each single powder drop.

Besides that I see what Whisky is saying. My experience is that the AutoDisc throws light for the given cavity not heavy. Never had one throw heavy.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 09:41
Gpruitt54,

about the only other thing I can think of is if there is an issue with your powder.

how old is the powder?

was the bottle sealed when you first opened it?

have you kept it closed in a cool dry area?

pour some out on a piece of paper, is it clumped together?

what does it smell like?

take a pinch between your thumb and finger and roll it around, does it say in grain form or does it crumble?

thats about all I got.

sig357fan

This was the last thing I purchased (this is my first time reloading). The container was sealed. Purchased the powder only 2 day ago. It is stored in the original container and kept in my dry and cool basement, where I do the reloading. I've accidentally spilled some on my reloading table and it does not clump. As far as the smell of the powder; I have no idea what it should smell like.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 09:51
There is too much BS going on here. The OP claims to be getting 5.8 grains of 231 thrown from the 0.43cc cavity. When I point out that this is impossible, he never addresses that. Then, later in the thread, he claims to be throwing 5.8 from the 0.49cc cavity (still impossible BTW). Either this guy is a troll and none of this is actually happening, or his avatar is causing him to be too stoned to know what is going on.

I've been so involved in responding to recommendations, I may have missed your contribution. In response to another suggestion, I tried using a different disk. As with the .43 and .40 disk, see the following so called impossible drops. Am I drunk or stupid; No. But I am interested in finding a solution to this issue. I look forward to any suggestions that can get me pass these issues. See the following test drops:

.49 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .49 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.6, 3)5.6, 4)5.6, 5)5.6, 6)5.8, 7)5.8, 8)5.8, 9)5.8, 10)5.8, 11)5.2, 12)5.2, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.8, 18)5.6, 19)5.8, 20)5.8

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.2, 4)5.2, 5)5.0, 6)4.8, 7)4.8, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.2, 11)5.2, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.0, 18)5.0, 19)5.2, 20)5.4

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 09:54
It could be some oil on the internals of the powder measure and discs. But I am convinced he is just not allowing the powder to properly settle by leaving the indexing rod in and pulling the handle 4 times to get the powder to settle and move into the cavity properly. Fill the measure full, tap the side several times. Pull the handle 16 times and drop 4 charges in the process before you weight the 5th. Be sure the die is set to slightly flare the case to be sure it is activated fully as well.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 09:57
It could be some oil on the internals of the powder measure and discs. But I am convinced he is just not allowing the powder to properly settle by leaving the indexing rod in and pulling the handle 4 times to get the powder to settle and move into the cavity properly. Fill the measure full, tap the side several times. Pull the handle 16 times and drop 4 charges in the process before you weight the 5th. Be sure the die is set to slightly flare the case to be sure it is activated fully as well.

That doesn't explain grossly overweight charges, only underweight charges.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 09:58
. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:


What scale are you using? Why you zeroing so often? Zero with the pan on the scale and don't rezero. Drop the powder in the pan and tap the case in the pan a couple times.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 10:00
That doesn't explain grossly overweight charges, only underweight charges.

True. Hence my above post. I also wonder if he is reading the disc wrong. The way they fit in the measure could confuse someone.

unclebob
09-02-2012, 10:38
True. Hence my above post. I also wonder if he is reading the disc wrong. The way they fit in the measure could confuse someone.

I was thinking the same thing.

birda40
09-02-2012, 10:49
This may be a silly question , Is the press bolted firmly down, is there powder on the press ? I've seen this happen. Your charges will be all over the board if the press is loose.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 10:57
True. Hence my above post. I also wonder if he is reading the disc wrong. The way they fit in the measure could confuse someone.

It wouldn't be too hard for some people to read the disc 180* out, but opposite the 0.43cc cavity is a smaller one, not a larger one.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 11:07
What scale are you using? Why you zeroing so often? Zero with the pan on the scale and don't rezero. Drop the powder in the pan and tap the case in the pan a couple times.

That's just my way to assure myself that nothing has changed. The scale is not drifting. Just ironing out and eliminating the variables and variances.

The scale is a MH-200 digital pocket scale.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 11:14
This may be a silly question , Is the press bolted firmly down, is there powder on the press ? I've seen this happen. Your charges will be all over the board if the press is loose.

The press is secured to a solidly anchored work table. I ain't budging from it's place.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 11:15
That's just my way to assure myself that nothing has changed. The scale is not drifting. Just ironing out and eliminating the variables and variances.

The scale is a MH-200 digital pocket scale.

The good news is, you're fine. Your $9.00 scale is the bad news.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 11:20
Get a Dillon Beam. I would never trust a cheap digital. Especially the way your recalibrating it. Try weighting the same charge 20 times and see what happens.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 11:22
If money is tight, the Lee Safety Scale is accurate and cheap. It is cumbersome to use.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 11:26
It wouldn't be too hard for some people to read the disc 180* out, but opposite the 0.43cc cavity is a smaller one, not a larger one.

Good question.

Opposite the .46 opening is .57 opening. So, I am sure I am dropping the correct load. For my current test drops I am using the .46 opening.

I am using the Lee auto desk. It's the one with the square shaped hopper; not the Lee Pro auto desk. Maybe that will help ID my issue.

When I am done with the 20 test drops, I will post the numbers in this thread. For these drops, I am cycling the press through all 4 dies and cropping the charge onto a cup that is on the scale. Yes, I am tapping the case to assure getting all the powder into the cup for weighing.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 11:33
Did you clean all the insides to remove oils. Alcohol would work well.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 11:42
Did you clean all the insides to remove oils. Alcohol would work well.

OK, here's the total noob question. Clean the insides of what?

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 11:54
OK guys, would you call this a solution.

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk. Each drop was poured and tapped onto the scale. Between each drop, I cycled the press fully through all die stations. Here are the results:

1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.0, 4)5.8, 5)5.0, 6)5.0, 7)5.2, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.0, 11)5.0, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)4.8, 16)5.0, 17)4.8, 18)5.0, 19)5.0, 20)5.0

Might the solution be to fully cycle the press through the die station between drops. [Colorado4Wheel] thanks for that recommendation.

How important is it that every single drop exceeded the volume of the .46 disk opening???

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 11:58
OK guys, would you call this a solution.

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk. Each drop was poured and tapped onto the scale. Between each drop, I cycled the press fully through all die stations. Here are the results:

1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.0, 4)5.8, 5)5.0, 6)5.0, 7)5.2, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.0, 11)5.0, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)4.8, 16)5.0, 17)4.8, 18)5.0, 19)5.0, 20)5.0

Might the solution be to fully cycle the press through the die station between drops. [Colorado4Wheel] thanks for that recommendation.

How important is it that every single drop exceeded the volume of the .46 disk opening???

You can't weigh powder charges with any kind of precision with a scale meant to be carried in your pocket. That scale is meant ot measure weed, not powder charges.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 12:10
OK guys, would you call this a solution.

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk. Each drop was poured and tapped onto the scale. Between each drop, I cycled the press fully through all die stations. Here are the results:

1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.0, 4)5.8, 5)5.0, 6)5.0, 7)5.2, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.0, 11)5.0, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)4.8, 16)5.0, 17)4.8, 18)5.0, 19)5.0, 20)5.0

Might the solution be to fully cycle the press through the die station between drops. [Colorado4Wheel] thanks for that recommendation.

How important is it that every single drop exceeded the volume of the .46 disk opening???

The measure is consistent. That is important. Now you need a real scale.

RustyFN
09-02-2012, 12:12
That doesn't explain grossly overweight charges, only underweight charges.

Exactly, you would have to jam the powder in the cavity to throw that much over. My guess would be a scale problem or not using it right.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 12:21
I was wondering if the scale was set to the wrong thing. Either way it only weights to .2 grains and that is not good enough. His scale weights in Grams and Grains. Could he be misplacing the decimal on the Grams?

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 12:48
You can't weigh powder charges with any kind of precision with a scale meant to be carried in your pocket. That scale is meant ot measure weed, not powder charges.

Well, I don't smoke weed anymore. So, I bought it for reloading. It seems to work just fine. It weights in grains as well as many other weight measurements. So, why not? How large does a digital device need to be?

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 12:56
I have to practically beat you over the head to get you to listen. At some point you have to decide if we are right or wrong. (we are not wrong). I mentioned way back on the first page the solution but you took your time listening. How many pages it going to take to explain you need a real scale?

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 12:57
Gee, I hope we are not going to spend large sums of money for a scale. We are weighting powder (important, yes!) and not molecules or atomic particles.

What kind of money are we talking about. Give me some reasonable options. Please keep in mind, I am just starting out with this hobby, so cost controls are at the top of the list for me.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 13:02
Well, I don't smoke weed anymore. So, I bought it for reloading. It seems to work just fine. It weights in grains as well as many other weight measurements. So, why not? How large does a digital device need to be?

I don't trust any of the digital scales used by most reloaders. However, most seem to have satisfactory results with scales marketed by companies who sell reloading gear. Those companies know the importance of the kind of accuracy you need to avoid blowing yourself up. Those scales typically cost $50.00-$100.00.

You say your scale is working fine, but it's obvious it isn't. Think about it, what is more likely to be wrong, a cheap scale, or a simple plastic hole made by a company that has been making them for 30 years for the sole purpose of reloading? You're going to have to adjust the way you go about problem solving if you want to limit your problems with reloading.

I've said it several times, and others have acknowledged it as well, you can't get 5.8 grains of 231 in a Lee cavity marked 0.49cc. Also, 231 meters very consistently. It may even be the single most consistently metering powder in existence. Weigh those two facts against the likelihood of a $9.00 digital scale being to blame.

The Lee disc system is so reliable, with it's built in error of throwing light, that starting charges listed in the data sheet provided with the dies don't even need to be weighed.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 13:06
I have to practically beat you over the head to get you to listen. At some point you have to decide if we are right or wrong. (we are not wrong). I mentioned way back on the first page the solution but you took your time listening. How many pages it going to take to explain you need a real scale?

What is a real scale in your opinion? Then I can see if your opinions work within my budget. I have not seen any recommendations. If you have some, I would be happy to see them.

Please keep in mind, I am not loading competition rounds. So please consideration in any recommendations.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 13:12
This scale flat out works. Guys gripe about it because it is a bit slow to use and that can get tedious if you weigh lots of charges. For simple reloading, all that frequent weighing isn't necessary. You wiegh a lot of charges in the beginning while you get things sorted out. Once you find that say 0.46cc throws what you want, you just weigh once in a while to make sure things haven't somehow gotten weird. You could just weigh the first charge of a given loading session if you are using the same powder and cavity as last time, or even the last few years. I loaded for two years with the 0.30cc cavity and Bullseye powder. I went two years without using the scale.

So, the Dillon, RCBS, Lyman versions of the Ohaus beam scales are good stuff and are faster to use. If you have the money to buy one of them, get it and you will have a scale for life. But, if you are on a budget, like I was 27 years ago when I bought my Lee scale, you can get a good, safe, accurate scale. You could have blown up your $500.00 gun and your priceless eye(s). There have even been cases where the extractor has blown out so violently that it injured the person next to the shooter.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/712103/lee-safety-magnetic-powder-scale-100-grain-capacity

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 13:18
I have to practically beat you over the head to get you to listen. At some point you have to decide if we are right or wrong. (we are not wrong). I mentioned way back on the first page the solution but you took your time listening. How many pages it going to take to explain you need a real scale?

I acknowledged that your recommendation to cycle the press seem to work. and I am not getting consistent weights. How does that put the scale at fault.

I will look for another scale, but the issue seemed to be related to how the disk opening was filling, or not.

As a noob to reloading, I want to learn by observation as well as from advice. Here observation points to the disk; and cycling the press helped properly fill the disk.

I am trying to be a smart ass. But I will ask questions if I run into issues. like this one. I hope that is OK on this forum.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 13:20
What is a real scale in your opinion? Then I can see if your opinions work within my budget. I have not seen any recommendations. If you have some, I would be happy to see them.

Please keep in mind, I am not loading competition rounds. So please consideration in any recommendations.

Dillon, Redding and RCBS Beam. Any reloading manufactures beam should do. No digital in your price range.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 13:21
I acknowledged that your recommendation to cycle the press seem to work. and I am not getting consistent weights. How does that put the scale at fault.

I will look for another scale, but the issue seemed to be related to how the disk opening was filling, or not.

As a noob to reloading, I want to learn by observation as well as from advice. Here observation points to the disk; and cycling the press helped properly fill the disk.

I am trying to be a smart ass. But I will ask questions if I run into issues. like this one. I hope that is OK on this forum.

Your scale is potentially dangerous. That should be enough to know you need a real scale.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 13:24
I acknowledged that your recommendation to cycle the press seem to work. and I am not getting consistent weights. How does that put the scale at fault.

I will look for another scale, but the issue seemed to be related to how the disk opening was filling, or not.

As a noob to reloading, I want to learn by observation as well as from advice. Here observation points to the disk; and cycling the press helped properly fill the disk.

I am trying to be a smart ass. But I will ask questions if I run into issues. like this one. I hope that is OK on this forum.

It's fine to ask questions like yours on here. It's better than just forging ahead and getting hurt. You're not coming across as a smart ass.

What we're trying to say is that we have tried every thing we can think of and all roads lead back to the scale.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 13:26
This scale flat out works. Guys gripe about it because it is a bit slow to use and that can get tedious if you weigh lots of charges. For simple reloading, all that frequent weighing isn't necessary. You wiegh a lot of charges in the beginning while you get things sorted out. Once you find that say 0.46cc throws what you want, you just weigh once in a while to make sure things haven't somehow gotten weird. You could just weigh the first charge of a given loading session if you are using the same powder and cavity as last time, or even the last few years. I loaded for two years with the 0.30cc cavity and Bullseye powder. I went two years without using the scale.

So, the Dillon, RCBS, Lyman versions of the Ohaus beam scales are good stuff and are faster to use. If you have the money to buy one of them, get it and you will have a scale for life. But, if you are on a budget, like I was 27 years ago when I bought my Lee scale, you can get a good, safe, accurate scale. You could have blown up your $500.00 gun and your priceless eye(s). There have even been cases where the extractor has blown out so violently that it injured the person next to the shooter.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/712103/lee-safety-magnetic-powder-scale-100-grain-capacity

Wow! interesting. I intentionally avoided analog scales, thinking that a digital device would be superior flat out no matter how cheap the digital device would be.

OK, I will look for another scale.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 13:40
Your scale is potentially dangerous. That should be enough to know you need a real scale.

I am pulling the 30 rounds I've made so far, as we speak.

Thanks for the advice and recommendations. As with all things, there are lessons learned.

Once I have purchased another scale (probably a beam type). I will compare the weight readings against my cheap-o pocket scale.

That's just me!

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 13:50
Better safe then sorry. I don't know that your scale is off. I am glad to help you figure out how to make the LCT run consistently. But I would never load with a cheap digital. They simply have a very bad reputation.

RustyFN
09-02-2012, 13:54
What is a real scale in your opinion? Then I can see if your opinions work within my budget. I have not seen any recommendations. If you have some, I would be happy to see them.

Please keep in mind, I am not loading competition rounds. So please consideration in any recommendations.

I just bought a RCBS 5-0-2 for around $60. It seems to be a very nice scale and very easy to use. Look to see if your local Walmart has one.

F106 Fan
09-02-2012, 15:13
There are no valid digital scales for less than $100 and the Dillon D-Terminator is $140 plus $15 for a protective case.

The Dillon beam scale is a quality unit at $70.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/8/stype/?searchVar=scale

It is seriously true that the only thing helping to prevent a kaboom is your scale. It is also important to realize that gun powder is made from either nitroglycerine or nitrocellulose. Both of these like to go KABOOM!

Presses come and go, calibers come and go, but the scale can remain constant for a lifetime. There's no point in buying it twice.

Richard

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 15:43
$10 more and you get a Redding.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 16:09
Thanks to all you guys for the advice, recommendations, and the patience.

I just returned from my local Cabela's sporting goods store. They were out of the Lee beam scales, and all the rest of the products were 69.99 and up. However they did have the Hornady GS-1500 for $40.00. So, I bought it.

For reference, I am using the ole .46 disk. I took 15 weight readings this time (20 is overkill), and here is what I got:

1)4.8, 2)4.9, 3)5.0, 4)5.0, 5)5.1, 6)5.1, 7)5.0, 8)4.9, 9)5.0, 10)5.0, 11)5.0, 12)4.9, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0

These readings are not really any different from the readings from my cheap-o Ebay special digital scale. If I had to say anything, I would suggest that the press cycling was the solution and that my cheap-o Ebay scale is just fine.

Then again, I have better peace of mind with the Hornady scale. This still leaves the question of how can a .46 Lee measuring disk drop a 5.0gn load of powder. Here we have a $9.00 no-name Ebay special and a $40.00 brand-name powder scale giving nearly identical readings.

Guys, I am totally new at this, so I am maybe too unaware, but WTF!

F106 Fan
09-02-2012, 16:19
You were told in post 89 that there are no valid digital scales for less than $100. That fact hasn't changed.

I suspect that the vast majority of users of digital scales on this forum are using the Digital D-Terminator.

EDIT: BTW, do you have any check weights? I'm not talking about a "calibration" weight, you need a set of check weights. RCBS, among others, makes a set. This way you can check the scale with a weight that is similar to your charge weight.

Richard

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 16:46
You were told in post 89 that there are no valid digital scales for less than $100. That fact hasn't changed.

I suspect that the vast majority of users of digital scales on this forum are using the Digital D-Terminator.

EDIT: BTW, do you have any check weights? I'm not talking about a "calibration" weight, you need a set of check weights. RCBS, among others, makes a set. This way you can check the scale with a weight that is similar to your charge weight.

Richard

Yes, of course I recall the recommendation. I also indicated that the beam scale I was looking for was not in stock. So, I purchased something that could at the very least, confirm that my Ebay scale was wildly out to lunch. I also recall a suggestion on this thread to at the very least, buy something from one of the reloading equipment manufacturers, and that I did. I bought a Hornady digital powder measuring scale. I would say that Hornady understands the critical nature of what is being measured here, and that something sold by Hornady for this purpose can be trusted. I would say that I can trust a Hornady product more than the Ebay special. Yes?

Point is that, the El-Cheap-o Ebay scale and the purpose build powder measuring device are giving the same readings. I am also asking how that is?

I will also buy a set of "calibration weights". Thanks for that heads-up.

F106 Fan
09-02-2012, 17:27
It would be worth the time to throw charges with all the cavities in the rotor. Make a chart of charge versus nominal size.

Richard

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 17:30
Thanks to all you guys for the advice, recommendations, and the patience.

I just returned from my local Cabela's sporting goods store. They were out of the Lee beam scales, and all the rest of the products were 69.99 and up. However they did have the Hornady GS-1500 for $40.00. So, I bought it.

For reference, I am using the ole .46 disk. I took 15 weight readings this time (20 is overkill), and here is what I got:

1)4.8, 2)4.9, 3)5.0, 4)5.0, 5)5.1, 6)5.1, 7)5.0, 8)4.9, 9)5.0, 10)5.0, 11)5.0, 12)4.9, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0

These readings are not really any different from the readings from my cheap-o Ebay special digital scale. If I had to say anything, I would suggest that the press cycling was the solution and that my cheap-o Ebay scale is just fine.

Then again, I have better peace of mind with the Hornady scale. This still leaves the question of how can a .46 Lee measuring disk drop a 5.0gn load of powder. Here we have a $9.00 no-name Ebay special and a $40.00 brand-name powder scale giving nearly identical readings.

Guys, I am totally new at this, so I am maybe too unaware, but WTF!

I've been so involved in responding to recommendations, I may have missed your contribution. In response to another suggestion, I tried using a different disk. As with the .43 and .40 disk, see the following so called impossible drops. Am I drunk or stupid; No. But I am interested in finding a solution to this issue. I look forward to any suggestions that can get me pass these issues. See the following test drops:

.49 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .49 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.6, 3)5.6, 4)5.6, 5)5.6, 6)5.8, 7)5.8, 8)5.8, 9)5.8, 10)5.8, 11)5.2, 12)5.2, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.8, 18)5.6, 19)5.8, 20)5.8

.46 auto desk. HP-38 Powder. Following are 20 separate drops using .46 auto desk and the weight of the powder drop. Before each powder drop, the scale was zeroed out with the case on the scale:
1)5.0, 2)5.0, 3)5.2, 4)5.2, 5)5.0, 6)4.8, 7)4.8, 8)5.0, 9)5.0, 10)5.2, 11)5.2, 12)5.0, 13)5.0, 14)5.0, 15)5.0, 16)5.0, 17)5.0, 18)5.0, 19)5.2, 20)5.4

You were not getting the same readings with the old scale. The old scale gave you as high as 5.4 and the new one gives no more than 5.1 with the 0.46 cavity. Also, your old scale showed spreads of 0.8 grains with the 0.49cc cavity. That's huge.

I think your new scale shows that you get no more than 5.1 grains with the 0.46cc cavity. So, you have a ceiling that you can work with and feel safe. Try the 0,49cc and see how it does on the new scale.I bet none of them are 5.8 grains. Your new scale is much more consistent and realistic than your old one.

You are basically seeing 0.1 grain variance with your new scale. Your measure is throwing 5.0 and some are 4.9 and some are 5.1 so it's 0.1 on either side. That is acceptable as long as 5.1 isn't over the max charge.

Hodgdon shows a max of 5.3 with 231 and a 165 in 40SW. I would see what the next smaller cavity throws. It should be very close to 4.7 grains. You might get some at 4.8, even 4.9, but would still be well below the 5.3 max. The 0.43cc cavity should be perfect for a starting load.

While the 0.1 grain variance you are seeing is acceptable, I would argue that you could get even more consistency with 231 and that measure. That's where Colorado's advice comes in for getting things completely repeatable. Also, even the most accurate scale in the world can be effected by air currents. An open window, an HVAC system, can make the scale vary. That's why I like a beam scale. You can see the beam move when it should be still and you know something is going on that isn't right.

The short version is, your new scale is much more in line with the Lee chart, and the personal experience of people posting in this thread who have used 231 and the same measure you have.

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2012, 17:37
New scale is better for sure. I would make a 5gr reference weight now so that you can see if it starts drifting in the future. It likely will and you will be back buying another scale in a year or two.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 18:13
You were not getting the same readings with the old scale. The old scale gave you as high as 5.4 and the new one gives no more than 5.1 with the 0.46 cavity. Also, your old scale showed spreads of 0.8 grains with the 0.49cc cavity. That's huge.

I think your new scale shows that you get no more than 5.1 grains with the 0.46cc cavity. So, you have a ceiling that you can work with and feel safe. Try the 0,49cc and see how it does on the new scale.I bet none of them are 5.8 grains. Your new scale is much more consistent and realistic than your old one.

You are basically seeing 0.1 grain variance with your new scale. Your measure is throwing 5.0 and some are 4.9 and some are 5.1 so it's 0.1 on either side. That is acceptable as long as 5.1 isn't over the max charge.

Hodgdon shows a max of 5.3 with 231 and a 165 in 40SW. I would see what the next smaller cavity throws. It should be very close to 4.7 grains. You might get some at 4.8, even 4.9, but would still be well below the 5.3 max. The 0.43cc cavity should be perfect for a starting load.

While the 0.1 grain variance you are seeing is acceptable, I would argue that you could get even more consistency with 231 and that measure. That's where Colorado's advice comes in for getting things completely repeatable. Also, even the most accurate scale in the world can be effected by air currents. An open window, an HVAC system, can make the scale vary. That's why I like a beam scale. You can see the beam move when it should be still and you know something is going on that isn't right.

The short version is, your new scale is much more in line with the Lee chart, and the personal experience of people posting in this thread who have used 231 and the same measure you have.

Yes, you are correct. The new scale gives better performance.

Were recommending that I purchase some Win 231 powder? I see in my Lee manual that the Win231 and the HP-38 both suggest and same min and max loads for 165gn jacked bullets.

Regarding my environment, there are no vents that may have effected the scale.

WiskyT
09-02-2012, 18:21
Yes, you are correct. The new scale gives better performance.

Were recommending that I purchase some Win 231 powder? I see in my Lee manual that the Win231 and the HP-38 both suggest and same min and max loads for 165gn jacked bullets.

Regarding my environment, there are no vents that may have effected the scale.

Sorry, I lost track of which powder you were using. Winchester 231 and Hodgdon HP38 are the same powder packaged with different labels so I mixed up the names. You are fine with what you have, keep things simple and just use one powder until you have your sea legs under you. Sorry I added a little confusion there.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 19:42
Sorry, I lost track of which powder you were using. Winchester 231 and Hodgdon HP38 are the same powder packaged with different labels so I mixed up the names. You are fine with what you have, keep things simple and just use one powder until you have your sea legs under you. Sorry I added a little confusion there.

Sure, no problem. I think this forum is a great place for new loaders like me, to learn from more experienced people. Thanks to you and all whose who has contributed to this thread over the last few days.

Based in my Lee manual, the .46 opening seems right in the bass park between min and max load recommendations. The next smaller opening would be .43. I will test some drops with that opening and see what I get.

SARDG
09-02-2012, 19:43
Gpruitt54- There are 2 parallel threads running right now discussing scales - albiet mostly digital. One was begun by a poster who:
a) had a cheap scale
b) hadn't calibrated it in over a year, and
c) had no check-weights

Notice the title of the thread...

KB! In New G20. Ideas? What Next?
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1440353

The other thread gives advice for the purchase of a digital scale. Bookmark that thread for reference for your future digital purchase.

Digital scale recommendation for noob
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1440249

shotgunred
09-02-2012, 20:18
There are a lot of good beam scales. they don't require battery's.

Ohh yea did I mention that they a;ways work?

unclebob
09-02-2012, 20:28
Ohh yea did I mention that they a;ways work?
Not always. I know of two that didn't.

Gpruitt54
09-02-2012, 20:28
Gpruitt54- There are 2 parallel threads running right now discussing scales - albiet mostly digital. One was begun by a poster who:
a) had a cheap scale
b) hadn't calibrated it in over a year, and
c) had no check-weights

Notice the title of the thread...

KB! In New G20. Ideas? What Next?
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1440353

The other thread gives advice for the purchase of a digital scale. Bookmark that thread for reference for your future digital purchase.

Digital scale recommendation for noob
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1440249

Cool, is there an option here for bookmarking thread?

SARDG
09-02-2012, 20:47
Cool, is there an option here for bookmarking thread?
I don't think so; just add to your favorites. I think you'll find more info in the Stickies as well.

'Scale' threads roll around on here frequently.

Gpruitt54
09-05-2012, 20:00
To all you guys on this forum, thanks for helping me get my first everreloads running and with awesome results.

I went to the range tonight to try my reloads. I was nervous as hell withthe reload in my chamber, ready to release. But after the first shot, I couldnot believe just how well the reloads performed. Great control, low recoil,tight groups. In fact the groups were a personal best for me.

I am so totally excited and smiling from ear to ear. Yeah, I know I havejust gotten started in this hobby, but I can definitely say that am a reloaderfrom now on.

Thanks Dudes!

RustyFN
09-05-2012, 20:09
To all you guys on this forum, thanks for helping me get my first everreloads running and with awesome results.

I went to the range tonight to try my reloads. I was nervous as hell withthe reload in my chamber, ready to release. But after the first shot, I couldnot believe just how well the reloads performed. Great control, low recoil,tight groups. In fact the groups were a personal best for me.

I am so totally excited and smiling from ear to ear. Yeah, I know I havejust gotten started in this hobby, but I can definitely say that am a reloaderfrom now on.

Thanks Dudes!

Congrats, that feeling of shooting that first one will stay with you a long time.

Gpruitt54
09-05-2012, 20:15
Congrats, that feeling of shooting that first one will stay with you a long time.

It was an amazing since of accomplishment to see brass, powder, and bullet come together into something that actually works; and works well. WoW!

dkf
09-05-2012, 20:30
Good to hear the loads worked out well.:wavey:

cowboy1964
09-06-2012, 08:30
I just got my Auto Disk and haven't used it. I believe that I have read where you should run a pound of powder through the unit before using it. I'm expecting that the experienced reloaders here can address whether this is true.

Bogus, IMO. Even at a high load that may be like 500 cycles. Screw that.

F106 Fan
09-06-2012, 09:04
I just got my Auto Disk and haven't used it. I believe that I have read where you should run a pound of powder through the unit before using it. I'm expecting that the experienced reloaders here can address whether this is true.

I read through both user manuals (Auto Disk and Pro Auto Disk) and there is nothing said about running powder through the mechanism.

However, doing so will coat the measure with graphite and also smooth out any rough spots. Whether it takes a pound or just a few dozen operations is the question.

The only requirement for the measure is that it throw consistent charges. I would think you would want to exercise it enough to convince yourself that this is the case.

Richard

unclebob
09-06-2012, 09:21
Take the powder measure apart and wash it in soap and water. This is to get rid of any oil, and remove a lot of the static cling. Dry the powder measure of all water. Take a used dryer sheet and wipe it down. Hopefully that gets rid of the rest of the static cling. Put some powder graphite on the moving parts and where the powder disk slides. Operate the handle 10 or so times add powder and run about 10 rounds through. Check your powder charge by going through a 4 stations. Throw 10 charges and weigh all 10 this will give you an average of what you are loading. Or adjust the powder disk accordingly.

dkf
09-06-2012, 09:57
Take the powder measure apart and wash it in soap and water. This is to get rid of any oil, and remove a lot of the static cling. Dry the powder measure of all water. Take a used dryer sheet and wipe it down.

That is what I did with mine. It still had some static but nothing running some powder through it did not take care of. After you wash it you have take it apart and dry it thoroughly. Pull out the silicone piece and dry it well and dry every crevice with a q-tip. Anything that has a hint of moisture on it will have powder stick to it.

Colorado4Wheel
09-06-2012, 10:04
Glad things worked out for you.

FLSlim
09-06-2012, 19:53
I was ready to add my 2 cents and then saw that things seemed to be worked out! Congrats.

Gpruitt54
09-06-2012, 20:30
I was ready to add my 2 cents and then saw that things seemed to be worked out! Congrats.

Thanks a bunch. Cain't wait to get some more loads done to do some more shootng. Shooting has never been so good as it now that I can control my rounds.

I've ordered one of those Lee micrometer powder measure for my Lee Autodesk. We will see how well it works out.

zippyhuntin
09-06-2012, 22:04
I saw that it was asked earlier, but not answered- you did clean the shipping oils out of the auto-disc riser and the powder through expanding die, correct?
If not, it will cause powder to clump and then you'll get wild swings in your charge weights.