noob starting to reload .45acp [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Atomichoe094
09-07-2012, 23:51
Hi all, not new to the forum been always lurking around and using the search button... But today i have a question/tell me whats best thread

I have a glock 30sf that i CCW and just play around with at the range. normally i would use Federal 230grain FMJ and it shoots great with it..

Im looking to start reloading (obviously :embarassed: )

Tell me what you think is best here

Gun powder WST
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/473311/winchester-wst-smokeless-gun-powder-8-lb?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

CCI primers
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/657323/cci-large-pistol-primers-300-box-of-1000-10-trays-of-100?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

rainier boollits
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/415564/rainier-leadsafe-bullets-45-caliber-451-diameter-200-grain-plated-round-nose-case-of-1000?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

Frankford tumbler
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/414369/frankford-arsenal-quick-n-ez-case-tumbler-master-kit-with-quick-n-ez-rotary-media-separator-110-volt?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

Frankford caliper
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/604242/frankford-arsenal-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

Lee pro 1000 progressive press
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/351321/lee-pro-1000-progressive-press-kit-45-acp?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc


And a scale which im not sure of yet
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/175512/frankford-arsenal-ds-750-electronic-powder-scale-750-grain-capacity?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

Starline 45 Brass
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/940531/starline-reloading-brass-45-acp-box-of-500-bulk-packaged?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc


If you would be so great to clue me in on what im missing that would be wonderful. Not sure if im missing something or if theres a better deal out there??
Price was around 675 with all the garbage hazmat *****..

:tongueout: THANKS!!!!!

fredj338
09-08-2012, 01:13
Some thoughts. Your bullet & powder combo is terrific. FA gear is pretty much hit or miss crap, I would buy better, especially the cheap dig scale, pass. You might be able to get 200rd/hr out of the Lee 1000, I would buy the Classice turret instead, a better machine IMO. No need to buy brass if you have been shooting factory, you should be keeoing that. If not, buying once fired is a fare better deal than new. You need at least two good reloading manuals. I would also get The ABCs of Reloading & do some reading BEFORE buying any gear. FWIW, you do NOT buy powder & primers from Midway, cost is high & you get a double HM fee. Try Graf's or PowderValley. BTW, you do NOT buy 1K primers or 1# of powder, the HM & Shipping kill you. Buy it local, cheaper for small amounts. When you are ready for 5-10K primers & 4-8# of powder, then go internet, just NOT Midway.

sourdough44
09-08-2012, 05:12
My simple all around 45 acp loading is a 200 grn plated RN over a modest charge of Titegroup or H Universal powder.

Used range brass in 45 acp is pretty cheap too.

Atomichoe094
09-08-2012, 07:54
Thanks for your help Fred and Sour, Maybe ill stop in the range today to compare pricing.
Fred, do you recommend then the Dillon scale or another one? Also Do i need the small primer feeder or just large? Ill probably eventually reload .38, 9mm and .45 thanks!!

edit: one more thing, if i have to order dies for the Classic,
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/242098/lee-deluxe-carbide-4-die-set-45-acp?cm_vc=sugv1_785993
Is that sufficient? Do i need anything else?

shotgunred
09-08-2012, 08:25
I would pass on the press.

While 8 pounds of powder is the way you should get it when you are paying hasmat I would not buy 8 pounds until I was sure I liked the powder. Secondly midway makes you pay a separate hasmat for powder and primers. Look art powder valley of grafs for them.

F106 Fan
09-08-2012, 08:31
Thanks for your help Fred and Sour, Maybe ill stop in the range today to compare pricing.
Fred, do you recommend then the Dillon scale or another one? Also Do i need the small primer feeder or just large? Ill probably eventually reload .38, 9mm and .45 thanks!!


Almost everyone recommends the Dillon scale - digital or beam.

Most, but not all, .45 ACP brass uses a large primer. It's the 'but not all' bit that jams up the press or causes primer explosions. Blazer and a couple of other manufacturers make .45 ACP brass with small primer pockets. You need to sort these out. I send mine to a landfill where they can rot in peace. Others load them and shoot them at 'lost brass' matches. But I believe in Karma and 'what goes around, comes around'. So, I try to get the small primer brass out of circulation.

Around here the Kempf version of the Lee Classic Turret Kit is highly recommended for new reloaders who want to start for a low entry cost. There's something that Kempf includes that is important but more important is the fact that they leave out the not so highly regarded Lee scale. I don't have one of these presses so I have no idea what the extra is that's important. Read about it in the stickies at the top of the forum.

And order the Pro Auto Disk upgrade:
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41

The kit will include both primer setups - you need small primer for everything you listed except .45 ACP.

When you get the Lee 4 die set, toss the Factory Crimp Die (FCD) in the trash - never to be heard from again. You won't find much love for it around here. Instead, buy a Lee Taper Crimp Die in the appropriate caliber.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/244052/lee-taper-crimp-die-45-acp

You don't want to buy small quantities of supplies online as Fred has pointed out. At Powder Valley, the HazMat fee alone is $27.50. You need to spread that cost out if you want to compete with your local supplier.

I needed a can or IMR 4064 while I await my Powder Valley order. It cost $27.99 locally while it's only $19.95 at PV. There's a third of the HazMat fee that could be recovered right there! But I bought an 8# jug $142 ($17.75/lb). I saved over $80 on the powder so the HazMat fee is covered nicely. Any other powder or primers on the order are just gravy.

FWIW, 8# of a pistol powder will make more than 10,000 rounds (depending on the load). For .308 rifle, that 8# of IMR 4064 will only make about 1,300 rounds.

There are those of us that would have new reloaders take a longer view and invest in better equipment right up front. I realize the Dillon RL550B is much more costly than the LCT but I also know that its production rate is much higher. Reloading might be fun but it isn't fun if it takes a long time. Watch some of the YouTube videos for the LCD and the RL550B. There's a reason that the 550 is the workhorse of the reloading community.

If you really want to start at an outrageous level, watch some of the videos for the Dillon XL650. The problem with the 650 is that caliber conversions are more expensive than those for the 550 and slightly more complex. But a fully equipped XL650 is right at $1000 or five times the cost of the LCT. OTOH, it will crank out about 1000 rounds per hour versus a couple of hundred rounds per hour on the LCT. Production rate and equipment cost are tightly correlated.

Equipment selection really can't be discussed without some understanding of volume. If you need a few hundred rounds per month, the LCT is probably fine (remember, I have never even seen one). At some level, one of the other machines will pay for itself in timed saved.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/customize-reloader.html

Richard

SARDG
09-08-2012, 08:32
If you want that caliper, Harbor Freight has it on sale this month for $19.99 - but sometimes for even less.

If you ever get to the point where you want new Starline brass, go direct to Starline. It's a bit cheaper and shipping is free. Of course, they make up brass in big runs and they are frequently backordered on a given size until the next run comes around again. As a matter of fact, when you settle on what supplies you want to use, it really pays to not only order in bulk, but also to plan ahead.

Midway has a wonderful business model, quick shipping, and a great e-commerce site - but can be a little high on price.

There are many recent threads concerning digital scales on this forum if you search. Many here like to recommend the Dillon D-Terminator but there are other quality scales - and as Fred would say, none are under $100. A set of check-weights is recommended.

Colorado4Wheel
09-08-2012, 08:52
Read the sticky. You will not make a huge mistake doing that. Double your current budget and I promise you, you will be much much happier in the end.

fredj338
09-08-2012, 09:07
Read the sticky. You will not make a huge mistake doing that. Double your current budget and I promise you, you will be much much happier in the end.
^^THIS^^^
Not everyone needs top of the line gear, but consider 20yrs of reloading, a $1200 setup is $5/m, a Starbucks, a gal of Obama gas. After 20yrs, you'll be able to esll quality gear for what you paid or even more.
F106 gave you some really good advice. Some of the Lee stuff is ok, shun their regressive presses, fixed powder measure & crap scale, you can make most of it work fine.

Colorado4Wheel
09-08-2012, 09:38
Even $650 would get you a 550 and plenty of other stuff to round out the setup with a reliable scale and a tumbler and calipers.

F106 Fan
09-08-2012, 10:54
All of which is to say that volume is the key factor in selecting equipment for pistol loading.

I can load .45 ACP 230 gr FMJ for about $160/1000. I can buy the same thing for about $350/1000. So, I save about $190/1000.

If I shoot 10,000 rounds per year (200 per week, 4 boxes...), the savings is $1900. Now the question is: Do I want to load 1000 rounds per hour and save about $190/hr or do I want to load 200 rounds per hour and save about $38/hr (if that...). In one case it is going to take me about 10 hours to load for a year and in the other case it will take about 50 hours.

One way to justify the low speed of the LCT is to realize that a couple of hours per week is all it's going to take. One way to justify the Dillon 650 (a seriously fast press!) is that I have other things to do. The press only costs $1000 fully loaded and I'll get that money back in the first 6 months! It will outlive me, no question, and my grandson can pass it down to his grandkids.

The 550 comes out somewhere in the middle. You will probably get closer to 400 rounds per hour than 500. At 400 rounds per hour it will take about 25 hours to load for the assumed year.

Some of the folks around here shoot well over 10,000 rounds per year. Some shoot far less. And that's why reloading equipment comes in every price category.

Look at the YouTube videos of the LCT and watch how it takes 4 strokes of the handle to complete one round of ammo. Then watch the 550, 650 or 1050 complete one round per handle pull.

Do some math using loaded ammo costs against reloading supplies from Precision Delta (jacketed bullets), S&S Casting (lead bullets), Powder Valley (powder and primers). Then figure out how much you will shoot (and double it because that's the way it goes with reloads, you will shoot a LOT more). Now look at the cost of equipment.

Richard

DoctaGlockta
09-08-2012, 12:39
The 30sf was my first firearm and the first one I reloaded for. An old reloader told me to start with Unique and actually told me to start with primed brass. So I bought a pound of Unique, some nickel plated primed brass and 100 230 grain JHP's. Put them together with a Lee thigh master. I still have some of those virgin nickel cases put away to load with my son's if they are ever interested.

This isn't rocket science but you can still get yourself in trouble easily at first.

Good luck and be safe.

Atomichoe094
09-08-2012, 20:23
So i made a purchase today. Ive read everyones response and greatly appreciate the help and feedback.
Ill buy another book or 2 but i picked up lymans reloading handbook
and i went with a Lee Loadmaster lol. Some people on here will probably bash, but ill give it a shot and see what i can do with it. Ill be posting up pictures im sure and more information along the way. Ill have to make a run monday for a book/primers/and powder at a local place.. Will need to buy a die set for a .45 as well.

sellersm
09-08-2012, 21:28
:dunno: :headscratch: :popcorn:

fredj338
09-08-2012, 23:14
It's like talking to a wall.:brickwall:

Colorado4Wheel
09-09-2012, 00:05
I had one of the those. Keep the receipt.

Atomichoe094
09-09-2012, 06:14
i told you it would happen. they say its its almost always an adjustment problem from the buyer not the machine itself. for the price which i will not inclose and the stuff i got with it, im not worried about it

DoctaGlockta
09-09-2012, 07:47
i told you it would happen. they say its its almost always an adjustment problem from the buyer not the machine itself. for the price which i will not inclose and the stuff i got with it, im not worried about it

I've always wanted to talk to those guys.

If you ask for advice here it is usually freely given and to be quite honest pretty accurate. This is a great place for both knowledge and experience.

But when you ask for advice and pretty much do a 180 with it don't expect folks to sign up for president of your fan club.

Good luck mate and be safe.

Atomichoe094
09-09-2012, 08:34
i followed your advice, i kicked off the electric scale and bought a beam does that count?

Honestly, its just a personal preference type thing. Some people hate glocks, other people love them. No one cares in the end what you shoot, as long as it shoots!

If this machine doesnt work worth a damn ill sell it on fleabay for more then what i bought it for and ill start over. Buying a Dillon doesnt mean i wont have problems with reloading since ive seen videos before of them having problems..

No hard feelings guys! Were all here for the same reason

HexHead
09-09-2012, 09:00
Late to the party, but i'd recommend a good dial caliper over a digital one. I have both, having started with a digital. I much prefer my RCBS dial caliper.

unclebob
09-09-2012, 09:47
:dunno: :headscratch: :popcorn:

:agree:

SARDG
09-09-2012, 10:19
...when you ask for advice and pretty much do a 180 with it don't expect folks to sign up for president of your fan club...
180?? Then we should probably start recommending Loadmasters and watch sales of Dillons skyrocket. :supergrin::faint:


...but, better a quality beam, than a cheap digital.

RustyFN
09-09-2012, 11:32
So i made a purchase today. Ive read everyones response and greatly appreciate the help and feedback.
Ill buy another book or 2 but i picked up lymans reloading handbook
and i went with a Lee Loadmaster lol. Some people on here will probably bash, but ill give it a shot and see what i can do with it. Ill be posting up pictures im sure and more information along the way. Ill have to make a run monday for a book/primers/and powder at a local place.. Will need to buy a die set for a .45 as well.

Welcome to reloading. If you bought a Loadmaster then this site will come in very handy to make it work right, http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/index.php?sid=d0acbb1f3f4a0deea87eb77ac3cd70ec

F106 Fan
09-09-2012, 11:38
180?? Then we should probably start recommending Loadmasters and watch sales of Dillons skyrocket. :supergrin::faint:


...but, better a quality beam, than a cheap digital.

There are some pretty useless beam scales around. They too come with levels of performance somehow related to cost.

The Lee scale that usually comes with the LCT isn't highly regarded by those who have used it.

But I have to wonder: Why do I have the better part of $2k invested in a Dillon 1050 when, by one user's report, I could load 1000 rounds per hour on a LoadMaster for a cost of less than 1/10 as much? The way I see it, the LM is about $175 which is cheaper, and MUCH faster, than the LCT.

Heck, the LM only costs about 18% as much as a 650!

Hm... I'm doing something wrong!

Richard

RustyFN
09-09-2012, 11:46
Originally Posted by Atomichoe094

i told you it would happen. they say its its almost always an adjustment problem from the buyer not the machine itself. for the price which i will not inclose and the stuff i got with it, im not worried about it

I've always wanted to talk to those guys.

Go to the loadmaster site link in my other post. Uncle Don, Darwin and Shadow all have LM's that run smooth. Uncle Don says he can load around 800 rounds per hour and I won't doubt him. From what I hear the most critical part is when changing calibers the primer seating depth has to be reset because it primes at the top. I'm sure an LM can be made to run right but it sounded like quite a bit more involved. I didn't want that so I went with a Dillon 550 when I went progressive.

VN350X10
09-09-2012, 14:47
One major point.....

FORGET THE PUBLISHED RATES OF PRODUCTION......FROM ANYBODY !

This isn't a game of speed, it's an item of PRECISION & CONSISTANCY.

I have a Dillon 1050, a 650 with case feeder, a 550, a SDB & a Lee 1000, all set up & operational in a dedicated 12 X 16 building. The published loading rates from the mfgr's. are not a "sustained" rate, but rather are timed for a short burst of what the machine can do when totally set up & running.
It's more accurately termed "Cycle rate" . IT IS NOT A TRUE PRODUCTION RATE !
Doing .45 ACP, I can run a sustained rate of about 450 rds/hr on my 1050. This permits me to:
1) Refill powder measure
2) Fill primer tube
3) Fill case feeder
4) Take away completed rounds & replace bullet catcher tub
5) Refill bullet tray as needed

All of this must be considered as part of loading on a progressive press, so consider any/all comments of "I can load XXXX rounds per hour on my XYZZ brand press" as the usual internet BS !

And I'm not a slow or inexperienced reloader, I've been reloading handgun & rifle ammo since 1973. When you only make $2.50/hr and like to shoot a .44 Mag, you tend to get into reloading quickly.

uncle albert

Atomichoe094
09-10-2012, 19:04
So getting started on this Loadmaster (which yes i know you guys dont like)
Ill be reloading .45acp and im having trouble trying to figure out which dies i really need to fill the 5 spots?

station1- deprime
station2- expanding die/primer
station3- powder through expanding die
station4- seating the bullet
station5- Lee taper crimp

Does that sound right/the best option? not sure if i can fit another die in and combine 2??
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/242098/lee-deluxe-carbide-4-die-set-45-acp?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/244052/lee-taper-crimp-die-45-acp?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

sellersm
09-10-2012, 19:20
I think you can combine #2 and 3?

Colorado4Wheel
09-10-2012, 22:20
The hot tip for the LoadMaster is.

1. Lee Universal depriming die
2. Sizing Die
3. Lee flare/powder die
4. Seat
5. Crimp

The sizer die over the priming station helps center the case. Typically the hole above the priming station is empty. Normally you deprime in 1 and leave two empty. Three and following is the same as above then.

Atomichoe094
09-11-2012, 18:57
Hmm, thanks for your help Steve.. i bought everything besides now i need to make a table..
Im thinking of picking this table up and bolting it to the floor. maybe bracing it by wleding some braces underneath of the table as well..
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/8378/20120821092413821l.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/20120821092413821l.jpg/)

With the light right above me, power strip and a few drawers i should be ready to rock and roll soon