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porschedog
09-10-2012, 15:19
I've been shooting 1911s for a while but have just recently begun "Accesorizing" or, as my wife puts it "buying presents for my new toy"

I just picked up a Colt Gold Cup and was semi-surprised to note it does not have a full length guide rod. I had added one to a SA Compact a few weeks earlier and it made an accurate gun into an uber accurate hole-punching machine.

The Gold Cup is, as I discovered yesterday, quite impressive at the range. It made one ragged hole out of 15 rounds at 15 yards.


So, while wondering what to add to the latest aqcuisition, I'm looking for feedback on full length guide rods. It's not a carry piece, but rather a range toy. I have a G30 & G36 for social situations.

What say you? Yes? No? Maybe?

And what about S/S barrel bushings? Any benefit beside good looks?

Thanks in advance for your responses and your patience with my questions.

Glockdude1
09-10-2012, 15:27
My Springfield Operator works great without the FLGR.

:cool:

faawrenchbndr
09-10-2012, 15:39
I've tried them in the past, no benefit in accuracy. Does add a step
or two to the field strip process. So, IMO, say no to FLGR

Jim S.
09-10-2012, 16:47
I do not see any proof that they make a gun shoot any better or any worse.
I prefer a G.I. style over the full length.
If I had to have a full length it would be a two piece over the one piece rod.

knedrgr
09-10-2012, 16:56
There's not a shred of evidence that it will make a gun shoot better. Added weight to the front may help to reduce muzzle flip, thus getting back on target faster. But that's doesn't mean it will help to produce tighter group, if shooting from a rest.

BuckyP
09-10-2012, 17:04
Well, might as well get an opinion from the other side of the aisle. Just think of this, what modern gun today does NOT come with a full length guide rod?

I personally prefer them. It makes the spring track better. It is very VERY subtle, but can be felt. As for field stripping, get one with a pin hole in it, like the STI, and with just a paper clip, it is actually EASIER to field strip.

Most purists will disagree, but there is a reason they sell so many of them. YMMV.

rkrk
09-10-2012, 17:40
Interesting thread as I am approaching this from the other side currently. My newly acquired TRP Operator (railed) has a FLGR with a pin hole that requires a tool to break down. I would not consider myself a purist but rather more of a pragmatist - I would prefer not to rely on a tool to field strip.

The bull barrel on the TRP will not accommodate a barrel bushing so I don't have the simple option of just swapping out the parts to go to a GI setup.

I am considering this http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=8000129E-1320694367

I have not been able to find any bad press/experiences so far with this product.

I am going to shoot the gun for a while and then decide. You can buy a lot of paper clips for $70...:upeyes:

Well, might as well get an opinion from the other side of the aisle. Just think of this, what modern gun today does NOT come with a full length guide rod?

I personally prefer them. It makes the spring track better. It is very VERY subtle, but can be felt. As for field stripping, get one with a pin hole in it, like the STI, and with just a paper clip, it is actually EASIER to field strip.

Most purists will disagree, but there is a reason they sell so many of them. YMMV.

faawrenchbndr
09-10-2012, 18:01
No paper clip or tool needed to break down the TRP Operator.
Retract slide, remove slide stop, remove slide. Install is reverse of removal.

porschedog
09-10-2012, 18:20
Thanks for the feedback
The FLGR fronWilsons arrived today, but it is still in the bag

Disregarded9-side
09-10-2012, 18:23
Maybe.

I have both set-ups for my Springfield. I bought the GI set-up because I HATE the tear-down with the FLGR. It's a serious PITA. I like handling the pistol with the GI set-up much more.

After trying 100+ with the GI set-up, I experience much more stable and consistent slide return with the FLGR, smoother recoil. It's as if I can feel the slide bouncing on the rails a lot more without the FLGR; tighter guns may not have this issue. Felt/perceived muzzle flip is reduced, certainly because of the added weight up front but also I feel because of the (effective) 3rd rail on the gun. The consistency of action in theory, to me, could mean fewer malfunctions and better wear resistance.

YMMV; others here with many more years of 1911 shooting may disagree, but I think it's nice to have both set-ups.

keryou1960
09-10-2012, 18:33
My "Modern", Les Baer P11 with 1.5" @ 50 yrds. Came with a target that measured 1.300' 10 Shots @ 50 So I'm inclined to say a FLGR Is not needed. Actually has nothing to do with accuracy.

rkrk
09-10-2012, 18:34
that works well until you want to clean the barrel, guide rod and slide properly - then you need a tool...

No paper clip or tool needed to break down the TRP Operator.
Retract slide, remove slide stop, remove slide. Install is reverse of removal.

Big Bird
09-10-2012, 18:36
I've seen full length guide rods make 1911's malfunction when they were perfectly reliable with standard USGI parts.

I was at Gunsite a while back taking the API 250 course and there was a woman there who had a 1911 her husband set up for her and one of his improvements was a full length guide rod. It kept jamming. Ted Yost came up from the gunsmithy to fix it. He pulled the full length guide rod and installed a stock guide rod and plunger. The gun ran like a champ all day. Her husband came by at the end of the day (he was in another class) and threw a fit about taking the guide rod off the gun and put it back in. Sure enough the gun chokes on the first magazine. Regardless he wouldn't let her put it back to stock configuration and she had a miserable time with that gun.

Big Bird
09-10-2012, 18:39
My "Modern", Les Baer P11 with 1.5" @ 50 yrds. Came with a target that measured 1.300' 10 Shots @ 50 So I'm inclined to say a FLGR Is not needed. Actually has nothing to do with accuracy.


If folks anything about how a 1911 locks up and goes into battery they would know the guide rod has NOTHING to do with accuracy.

wdp
09-10-2012, 18:48
Had several from Wilson over the years, was never impressed but the cool factor made me think I did something right. I'm older and wiser now.

countrygun
09-10-2012, 18:55
Well, might as well get an opinion from the other side of the aisle. Just think of this, what modern gun today does NOT come with a full length guide rod?

I personally prefer them. It makes the spring track better. It is very VERY subtle, but can be felt. As for field stripping, get one with a pin hole in it, like the STI, and with just a paper clip, it is actually EASIER to field strip.

Most purists will disagree, but there is a reason they sell so many of them. YMMV.

Well they are still making auto pistols with hooked trigger guards too.

:whistling:

:supergrin:

bac1023
09-10-2012, 19:07
I wouldn't bother with a FLGR.

BuckyP
09-10-2012, 19:08
Well they are still making auto pistols with hooked trigger guards too.

:whistling:

:supergrin:

Not a functional part.

Newer guns typically don't have them. (M&P, Caracal, FNS)

Older design guns don't change them to maintain holster compatibility. Just ask Beretta fans how that worked out with the 90-Two. :tongueout:

jg420
09-10-2012, 20:58
I hate having to use a tool to break down my TRP so I swapped the FLGR to a GI setup. No go for the guide rods for me

Rally Vincent
09-10-2012, 22:39
I have at least two 1911's built for or by me every year.
I have never included a FLGR in the build specs. It's a solution to a problem that does not exist.

mr_fender
09-10-2012, 23:01
One piece rods like on Kimbers are tolerable, since you can still push in the plug to field strip in the normal fashion. However the two piece rods are a pain in the butt. You can't depress the plug without removing the front half of the rod, which requires an hex key. Also they tend to come loose over time as well. GI setup works fine and is easier to field strip.

faawrenchbndr
09-11-2012, 02:24
that works well until you want to clean the barrel, guide rod and slide properly - then you need a tool...

Nope,........only need a left hand & a right thumb!
Try it, I've done it about a hundred times!

1911Tuner
09-11-2012, 05:00
The question that begs to be asked:

"What is it for?"

Marketing 101:

"First you must convince the customer that he needs it...for whatever reason...and then sell it to him."

So, all too often the answer to the question seems to be.

"To sell!"

The FLGR aids in extraction and feeding. It extracts money from one pocket feeds it into another.

SGT HATRED
09-11-2012, 05:13
On looks alone I say yay...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/Merlin-X/a11911011-1.jpg

okie
09-11-2012, 05:58
I've tried them in the past, no benefit in accuracy. Does add a step
or two to the field strip process. So, IMO, say no to FLGR

This:supergrin::wavey:

deadite
09-11-2012, 08:28
On looks alone I say yay...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/Merlin-X/a11911011-1.jpg

Really, this is the only reason I can see to use them. I play around with them, but I never forget that they increase accuracy just as much as changing your grip panels...not much at all.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Zombie Steve
09-11-2012, 09:43
Got a TRP that has one, got a Brown that doesn't.

I do like the little bit of forward weight for follow up shots, particularly in gun games.

I'm pretty close to indifferent. If it doesn't have one and runs, don't bother. If it has one and runs, leave it.

Hurricanes
09-11-2012, 13:25
I changed out the FLGR to a GI setup in my Rock Island. Shoots the same from what I can tell, and I like the look alot better.
-Joel

Brucev
09-11-2012, 13:54
I've used 1911's w/ and w/o FLGR. The plain GI stype setup is not a problem. But all the complaining and anecdotal stories not withstanding, I can't see that the FLGR is a problem for routine cleaning/maintenance nor can I see that it is a problem for functional reliability. Most of the critical complaints reflect more emotion than anything else. It's not unlike the way folks discuss other matters such as extended safeties, flat vs. arched mainspring housings, fixed vs. adjustable sights, etc.

rkrk
09-11-2012, 16:58
Nope,........only need a left hand & a right thumb!
Try it, I've done it about a hundred times!

Ok, I will bite. A little more detail about how you do it sans tool?

Thanks

Jason D
09-11-2012, 17:45
They were a fix to a non existent problem.
They fix nothing in the gun, but they can drain a few bucks from your wallet.

deadite
09-11-2012, 18:22
They were a fix to a non existent problem.
They fix nothing in the gun, but they can drain a few bucks from your wallet.

Sadly they cost money, too, when we change the factory FLGR to a GI setup. Double lose! ;) My PM 7-45 came with a factory FLGR.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Nakanokalronin
09-12-2012, 09:21
No need for a FLGR except to add weight and make the uninformed think they're getting more for their money. If a 1911 comes with a standard GI plug and rod, great. If it comes with a FLGR, it get's changed to a GI type immediately.

fnfalman
09-12-2012, 11:34
Modern guns may have full length guide rods, but then the M1911 isn't a modern gun.

It wasn't designed to take a full length guide rod. Believe it or not "full length guide rods" were available "back then" too. Yet JMB decided not to use it. Of course, everybody and their brothers fancy themselves to know more about guns and gun designs than JMB. It's not like the man had perfected the Winchester lever gun, invented machine guns and automatic pistols plus who knows what else.

Troubled Gecko
09-12-2012, 16:29
FLGR

Pro's-added fwd weight and prevents weapon coming out of battery in a defensive contact shot.

Con's-some require an allen key, bushing wrench etc. to field strip, if you put the recoil spring in backwards the open loop will drag against the rod, the two pc. type sometimes unthread during use, adds weight to an already heavy firearm.

I use the GI type on all of my 1911's and have no desire for the FLGR. The Kimber FLGR is easily made into a GI type by cutting it down and rounding off the leading edge but you'd still need a closed recoil spring plug (I've cut down 3 Kimber FLGR's so far).

grecco
09-13-2012, 12:22
i replaced all mine,

fnfalman
09-14-2012, 16:17
FLGR

Pro's-added fwd weight and prevents weapon coming out of battery in a defensive contact shot.
.

You can push practically any automatic pistol out of battery if you were to place the muzzle against a body and add force.

glock2740
09-14-2012, 17:18
I don't have any use for a FLGR. I've removed them from several of my guns and all new guns the past couple of years have been ordered without them. I don't have any hate for them, I just see their need. :dunno: