Some 38+P and .357 SIG loads. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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clarkstoncz
09-11-2012, 16:32
Here are two defensive loads that might be of interest to you guys.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20TAP%20357%20SIG/DT357_AUG/DT38357SIG.jpg
I've shot 125 gr. Gold Dots before and found them to have less recoil than the 158 grain loads,
and to be more accurate than 158s out of my guns as well.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DT-357%20SIG/DOUBLE%20TAP%20-Summer%202012/Dt38-small.jpg
Others might like the low recoil of the 110s like the excellent Remington Express JHP load,
or the exquisite Double Tap Barnes 110 gr. solid copper TAC-XP

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20%20TAP/Double%20Tap%202011/DT38B-5.jpg

However... some will still opt for the heavier JHPs in the 125 grain weight, if not the 158 gr. 38+P SCW FBI load

Given that I don't like much recoil and think that most of my guns, especially a Snub Nose, needs to be both
comfortable and controllable.

I just don't like 158 grain recoil out of Snubbie, or even something like a heavier Service Six where I would rather just have
a Magnum load like the 125 gr. Remington or Cor-Bon JHP. IF not the Remmy 158 JSP.

Double Tap states this 125 gr. Bonded Defense load uses flash suppressant powders and it has virtually no muzzle flash.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DT-357%20SIG/DOUBLE%20TAP%20-Summer%202012/DT-38-large.jpg
I have yet to verify this, but know that most modern ammo companies like SPEER, use such powders to minimize the
flash problem.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DT-357%20SIG/DOUBLE%20TAP%20-Summer%202012/DT-38-Huge.jpg





In keeping with the bonded bullet theme that we see in most modern designs these days.

Unlike something like a Cor-Bon or DT 125. grain .357 SIG fragmenting load or the infamous 125 gr. .357 magnum JHP.

The Gold Dot bullet used in the DT BONDED DEFENSE line of ammo, is a BONDED design that reduces the event of jacket separation.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DT-357%20SIG/DOUBLE%20TAP%20-Summer%202012/DT38357SIG-1.png
This seems to offer both excellent tactical penetration, while delivering sufficient bullet expansion and resulting excellent stopping power.

They might seem a bit dated in comparison to the newer bullets on the market.

Yet, in the hands of police and state troopers, as well as armed citizens...Gold Dots have been working well for decades!

Advertised velocity for this DT load is:

Velocity: 1175fps / 4" Ruger GP-100
1.875" bbl S&W - 1100fps

This is pretty fast for any .38 Special bullet, with the DT 110 gr. TAC-XP going

1250fps / 4" Ruger GP-100
1.875" bbl S&W - 1125fps



Note that the same firm's 38 Special+P 158gr. SWC

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20%20TAP/1575758666.jpg


has an advertised velocity of:



1000fps / 4" Ruger GP-100
1.875" bbl S&W - 900fps




Another, Bonded Defense offering that utilizes the Speer Gold Dot, is the 115 gr. 357 SIG B.D. JHP.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20TAP%20357%20SIG/DT357_AUG/DT357med.jpg

With an advertised velocity of:

3.5" barrel - 1494fps
4.5" barrel - 1612fps

This load is really smoking along for a 115.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20TAP%20357%20SIG/DT357_AUG/DT357.jpg
My 80 gr. TAC-XPs are advertised at:

1725fps / 529 ft. lbs. 4.25" S&W M&P
1825fps Glock 35 5.25"

I find that those have less recoil and muzzle blast/flash than the 115 gr. Noslers,
but that just might be my mind playing tricks on me.

The Noslers seem to be louder than the 80 grain Barnes X bullets.


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20TAP%20357%20SIG/dt-nos2.jpg
These 115s will be interesting to shoot!

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20TAP%20357%20SIG/DT357_AUG/DT357long.jpg


I believe that all these loads are safe in guns like J fames and LCRs, ect, but like with all modern/high performancedefensive loads these days-only for very limited use to minimize wear on your gun(s).



http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20TAP%20357%20SIG/DT357_AUG/DT38D.jpg

For more information:
.38+P
DoubleTap Ammunition (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_57&products_id=655)
DoubleTap Ammunition (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_57&products_id=470)
DoubleTap Ammunition (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_57&products_id=402)
.357 SIG
DoubleTap Ammunition (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=395)


DoubleTap Ammunition (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=613)

DoubleTap Ammunition (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=622)


Thanks for looking!

KEV

Clutch Cargo
09-11-2012, 19:19
I really like Double Tap ammo.

Berto
09-11-2012, 19:28
I'd love to see the chrono data.

bac1023
09-11-2012, 20:29
I really like Double Tap ammo.

The problem is that DT generally doesn't live up the advertised velocities.

ABNAK
09-11-2012, 22:11
The problem is that DT generally doesn't live up the advertised velocities.

I chrono'd DT's 125gr Sierra 357Sig load and it averaged 1452fps from a 4" barrel. I can live with that.

I also chrono'd DT's 150gr Nosler .40 load and it averaged 1167fps from a 3.2" barrel (supposed to do 1275 from a 4" barrel).

fastbolt
09-12-2012, 11:58
I used to spend time and money trying to obtain specialty ammunition. As a younger cop I sought out, found and carried the Geco BAT 9mm loads, the early Scorpian Hydra-Shok all-lead .38 Spl & .45 ACP loads, etc.

Nowadays I tend to stick with the major American companies and their modern designed hollowpoints.

For one thing, it costs less.

For another, it's usually easier to find than specialty products.

When you're going to be using it for training/practice and carry ammo, cost & availability both become important considerations.

Also, when the major ammo companies make ammo for their LE/Gov customers, it also often means they have to meet various production specifications and QC requirements.

Sure, when you're cranking out up to a million rounds every 24 hours there's bound to be an occasional QC issue arise, but those things can be recognized and addressed by the companies.

Another potential consideration is that the engineers working for the major ammo companies have the money and resources for development and testing of their bullets and loads.

Don't get me wrong. I like to see small American businesses prosper. I like to see innovation. (I'd like to see more all-copper hollowpoints in factory ammo.)

I just no longer spend the money to buy specialty ammo when I can buy various examples of the big name premium loads in greater quantities, more easily, and get more rounds for the money.

SCmasterblaster
09-15-2012, 16:40
That .38 Special 125gr JHP load looks aggressive indeed.

Tiro Fijo
09-15-2012, 17:04
...Another potential consideration is that the engineers working for the major ammo companies have the money and resources for development and testing of their bullets and loads...


Like the Ford Pinto debacle? :whistling: :supergrin:


These cos. are ran just like any other corporation with money being the bottom line. We saw that with Winchester's move to MS despite being awarded a huge $54 million Fed. contract spoon fed to them with help of an IL Senator.

Your mention of the SCHP is a prefect example. All testing shows it to be superior to lead base bullets, but yet the Big Four have been reluctant to really get behind it, except for Federal with a paltry showing in hangdun rounds that no one has hardly ever seen and some rifle hunting rounds. Surely, the prices could be made competitive with the industry making these by the tens of millions, yet there appears to be the NIH Syndrome in play, i.e., not invented here.

I think the REAL reason they don't get behind the SCHP is far more simple: the SCHP is already at its apex. They can't tweak, tune & über refine it thereby spinning BS. It would merely be a matter of who has the lowest bid and the engineers would not be needed en masse for further development. They would be like the livery stable owner who designed an automobile thereby insuring their own demise.

Ammo cos. and their respective engineers will do what is in their own best interests and not ours. The great exception was the H&K G11. Paradise was truly lost there and history will prove us idiots for not seeing the future.

fastbolt
09-15-2012, 17:17
Like the Ford Pinto debacle? :whistling: :supergrin:

Made me chuckle. I was with Ford back about '73-74. :)