Glock 21 versus 1911 45 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Viper 1
09-12-2012, 17:25
I have several 1911's but am thinking about a Gen 4 21 for target shooting.

To anyone that has both; can you shoot the 21 as accurately as a good 1911?

Thanks,

Drilled
09-12-2012, 17:40
Depends on your ability to shoot.
Apples to oranges.
Both great guns.
You can trick out both.
Glock is a point and shoot gun (stock)

Want to shoot a really soft accurate .45 try a G30.

I love the 1911 but I carry a glock.

ca survivor
09-12-2012, 17:44
I sold my 21 and 30 to stay with the 1911 platform, but I'm thinking in getting another 21, SF this time.

Walk Soft
09-12-2012, 17:58
In the Cop Talk section of the latest isuue of American Handgunner magazine,Massad Ayoob said of the groupings that the Gen 4 G21 was putting up
"That's target pistol territory:what we expect from $2,000 semi-custom 1911's,not economy priced run-in-the -mud Glocks."

bac1023
09-12-2012, 18:03
Hell no

I can't shoot any Glock all that accurately.

B_RAD
09-12-2012, 19:39
I shoot my 1911's better than my Glocks and I can shoot my Glocks pretty good. I think if you get a G21 w/the right after market sights you'll have a better chance.

samuse
09-12-2012, 19:48
Hell no

I can't shoot any Glock all that accurately.

You probably could if you wanted to.

I'm not a 1911 guy, but you have to define what kind of target shooting you want to do.

IDPA/USPSA type stuff, either one has it's place, but a Glock 21 ain't much of a Limited gun whereas a good 1911 is what Single Stack is for.

Bullseye or shooting groups at the range? I don't think a Glock is much fun for that type of stuff.

bac1023
09-12-2012, 20:20
You probably could if you wanted to.



Maybe so.

I just don't practice near enough with a Glock.

glock2740
09-12-2012, 20:34
I have several 1911's but am thinking about a Gen 4 21 for target shooting.

To anyone that has both; can you shoot the 21 as accurately as a good 1911?

Thanks,
No, I can't. But Hickok45 can. :thumbsup:

On a side note, I prefer my XD45 over a G21 and I'm a HUGE Glock fan. :)

Brucev
09-12-2012, 20:41
I think Glocks are great pistols. I very much like them. But, gun for gun, they are not in the same league with a equal quality 1911. The design of the 1911 is simply more capable of producing fine accuracy. As to reliability, there is no difference between a Glock 21 and a quality 1911 as produced by Colt, SA, etc. If one wants a high capacity .45 ACP, that also is not a problem with the 1911.

John Eastwood
09-13-2012, 18:04
The only difference in the reliability end of the spectrum is the cost that it takes to get there with the 1911. I know the bashers will flame any moment...don't please; I own both platforms...the Glock is as good as it's gonna get reliability-wise out of the box with no money up front to get it there. 1911's; who knows? Could be hit or miss + the initial cost up front for a $750+ pistol that may or may not work out of the gate.

For gaming I use my 1911. I'm sure it would work just fine for SD, but when the SHTF I'm grabbing the Block. Sorry guys I LOVE my 1911!

bac1023
09-13-2012, 18:09
The only difference in the reliability end of the spectrum is the cost that it takes to get there with the 1911. I know the bashers will flame any moment...don't please; I own both platforms...the Glock is as good as it's gonna get reliability-wise out of the box with no money up front to get it there. 1911's; who knows? Could be hit or miss + the initial cost up front for a $750+ pistol that may or may not work out of the gate.

For gaming I use my 1911. I'm sure it would work just fine for SD, but when the SHTF I'm grabbing the Block. Sorry guys I LOVE my 1911!

Glock reliability is no better than 90% of the new mainstream pistols available today.

In fact, lately I'd say they're less reliable.

bac1023
09-13-2012, 18:10
No, I can't. But Hickok45 can. :thumbsup:



Yeah, I was just watching a couple more of his videos last night.

He is a great shot.

John Eastwood
09-13-2012, 18:16
Glock reliability is no better than 90% of the new mainstream pistols available today.

In fact, lately I'd say they're less reliable.

True that. I should have said Gen 3 mid-2009 and earlier. :)

bac1023
09-13-2012, 18:38
True that. I should have said Gen 3 mid-2009 and earlier. :)

Both of my Glocks are Gen 3s from the mid 2000's and have been great.

samuse
09-13-2012, 20:29
Glock reliability is no better than 90% of the new mainstream pistols available today.

In fact, lately I'd say they're less reliable.

I'll agree that Glocks ain't what they were a few years ago, but they aren't as bad on the range as they are on the internet. I see a LOT of shooters with new Glocks (3rd and 4th gen) and I only know of one that has the brass to the face problem.

IMO, trigger jobs are still the #1 killer of Glock reliability closely followed by faulty reloads.

I shoot a lot of USPSA and 2011s are still king of the hill when it comes to being a POS!

bac1023
09-13-2012, 20:40
I'll agree that Glocks ain't what they were a few years ago, but they aren't as bad on the range as they are on the internet. I see a LOT of shooters with new Glocks (3rd and 4th gen) and I only know of one that has the brass to the face problem.

IMO, trigger jobs are still the #1 killer of Glock reliability closely followed by faulty reloads.

I shoot a lot of USPSA and 2011s are still king of the hill when it comes to being a POS!

I'm not saying Glocks aren't still very reliable. However, the competition has certainly caught up with them.

PlasticGuy
09-13-2012, 20:46
Start with a 1911. Make it weigh 30% less, make it 30% fatter, and then add 3 pounds to the trigger pull with a lot of take up and overtravel. It it going to shoot as accurately? No way. Very few shooters are more accurate with a Glock.

awpk03s
09-14-2012, 04:24
I have a Gen4 Glock 21. It's a fantastic pistol, accurate and reliable and fits my hands great. However... It is no contest that my 1911 is more accurate in my hands.

257 roberts
09-14-2012, 05:14
I'll agree that Glocks ain't what they were a few years ago, but they aren't as bad on the range as they are on the internet. I see a LOT of shooters with new Glocks (3rd and 4th gen) and I only know of one that has the brass to the face problem.

IMO, trigger jobs are still the #1 killer of Glock reliability closely followed by faulty reloads.

I shoot a lot of USPSA and 2011s are still king of the hill when it comes to being a POS!
good post, I agree 100%!!!

Big Bird
09-14-2012, 06:44
The 1911 has so much going for it when it comes to accuracy that its really hard for the Glock to compete on that single criteria.

First, only a fool would argue that a Glock trigger comes close to a good 1911 trigger. Many out of the box 1911's have superb triggers. They are all consistent. If your 1911 trigger is substandard it can be made superb for not a lot of money by a good smith. The trigger is probably THE most important factor when it comes to accuracy. Glock triggers are consistent--and take some practice to get used to. But they lack the clean break of a 1911 trigger.

Next we have ergonomics. Now it took me a while to "get" the ergonomics of my G21SF. Frankly, when I bought the pistol I hated it. It felt like I was holding a 2X4. But when I shot it I noticed two things. The low center of mass of the Glock barrel eats up much of the recoil that you experience more in a 1911 and two...that big honking backstrap actually spreads the recoil in your hand out over a larger area so you feel it less. So the Glock wins in the perceived recoil department but a 1911 isn't a hard recoiling run by my standards anyhow--so its a marginal win. And the 1911 Grip is VERY natural feeling which makes it better in my book. I like the Glock for different reasons but I LOVE the 1911 grip. And I started out hating the Glock grip.

In terms of mechanical accuracy--I don't think you'll see much of a difference between the two guns in terms of out of the box performance. All my Glocks' shoot really well and all my stock 1911 barrels do as well. Of course if you put a hand fitted match barrel in you 1911 and all bets are off. And lots of higher end 1911's come with superb barrels. I was shocked how accurate the Sig 1911 I recently bought was out of the box... None of my 8 Glocks comes close not even with aftermarket KKM barrels.

Of course the good thing about 1911's is you can feed them a steady diet of lead bullets and you don't have to buy a special barrel to do it like you do with a Glock. And leading is almost never an issue at 850 fps or thereabouts. I love shooting cast 230 grain bullets in a .45.... Easy on the barrel and the wallet.

So in terms of accuracy--the 1911 wins. BUT you have to be quite a pistolero to outshoot the capabilities of a Glock. I ain't that good. Haven't seen many people who are. The guy who won the shootoff in my Gunsite class had a Glock and he beat a bunch of people with 1911's--me included (I placed 2d--would have won in a mano-e-mano shootoff but I had a bad primer on my last target and had to do a tap rack bang drill that cost me the title...

Buy em both....

ROGER4314
09-14-2012, 09:10
I have owned a bushel basket of 1911's and have a few left. I have the G21 and G36 and really like both. I went in the safe and pulled out a 1911 and the G21 so I could give you a fair comparison.

The G21 is a big brute and very wide in the slide and especially in the grip. The 1911 is much slimmer but a bit longer.

I took a trigger gauge and weighed both. The G21 is 2 pounds empty. The Government 1911 is a bit over 2 1/2 pounds. Loaded, the G21 will have lots of additional weight due to the 13+1 capacity with the double stack magazine.

Which do I shoot better? Having been a 1911 owner and shooter since 1968, that pistol gets the edge. The trigger pulls are smooth and crisp at 4-5 pounds and there is none better.

I shoot the G21 very well, too but probably not as well as the 1911.

I've made one of my life goals to be able to pick up virtually any pistol and shoot it well. I've done a pretty good job on that and at 65, almost 66, I can shoot with most anyone accuracy wise. There is a reason for that and I'll use a pistol that people say is very difficult to shoot as an example.

I got tired of hearing people trashing S&W Sigmas as I owned one and it served me very well. It IS a bit more difficult to shoot with the long and stiff trigger pull. I got another 9mm Sigma for the other end of my house and both Sigmas protect my home with 16+ rounds, loaded and chambered.

I bought a THIRD Sigma and all I do with that is dry fire practice. That pistol has been dry fired thousands of times and if someone tells me that a Sigma won't shoot well, I can tell them differently because of practice and experience.

SO...that's what it takes to shoot any pistol well:
Willingness. I WILL learn this and master it.
Exposure. If you're going to shoot it well, you gotta touch, feel and use the gun regularly.
Practice. Lots of dry fire and range shooting. There's no substitute for that. I have black stickers on my doors that I use for aim points. When a commercial comes on TV or some other break occurs in what I'm doing, I dry fire.

The G21 shoots very well if you give it a chance and work with it. A couple of rounds fired on infrequent range trips aren't going to get you there.

Flash

Chesafreak
09-14-2012, 09:31
I don't own a 21 or a 1911, but I frequently shoot both at the range. The only 1911 that I have tried that could outshoot the G21 in my hands was a $2,600 Knighthawk Custom. I think that if the G21 had better than factory sights it may have closed the gap. I think that the G21 has as good of accuracy or better than the SIG and SA 1911's I have shot. Every Glock I have shot (I own a G23 and have shot others) is every bit as accurate and probably more reliable than most 1911's costing twice as much. The best way to turn a Glock into a target pistol is to master the trigger with LOTS of dry firing and put some good adjustable sights on it as well as pick a load its most accurate with. I don't even think they need an aftermarket barrel to get better accuracy as some think.

Viper 1
09-14-2012, 09:49
I have owned a bushel basket of 1911's and have a few left. I have the G21 and G36 and really like both. I went in the safe and pulled out a 1911 and the G21 so I could give you a fair comparison.

The G21 is a big brute and very wide in the slide and especially in the grip. The 1911 is much slimmer but a bit longer.

I took a trigger gauge and weighed both. The G21 is 2 pounds empty. The Government 1911 is a bit over 2 1/2 pounds. Loaded, the G21 will have lots of additional weight due to the 13+1 capacity with the double stack magazine.

Which do I shoot better? Having been a 1911 owner and shooter since 1968, that pistol gets the edge. The trigger pulls are smooth and crisp at 4-5 pounds and there is none better.

I shoot the G21 very well, too but probably not as well as the 1911.

I've made one of my life goals to be able to pick up virtually any pistol and shoot it well. I've done a pretty good job on that and at 65, almost 66, I can shoot with most anyone accuracy wise. There is a reason for that and I'll use a pistol that people say is very difficult to shoot as an example.

I got tired of hearing people trashing S&W Sigmas as I owned one and it served me very well. It IS a bit more difficult to shoot with the long and stiff trigger pull. I got another 9mm Sigma for the other end of my house and both Sigmas protect my home with 16+ rounds, loaded and chambered.

I bought a THIRD Sigma and all I do with that is dry fire practice. That pistol has been dry fired thousands of times and if someone tells me that a Sigma won't shoot well, I can tell them differently because of practice and experience.

SO...that's what it takes to shoot any pistol well:
Willingness. I WILL learn this and master it.
Exposure. If you're going to shoot it well, you gotta touch, feel and use the gun regularly.
Practice. Lots of dry fire and range shooting. There's no substitute for that. I have black stickers on my doors that I use for aim points. When a commercial comes on TV or some other break occurs in what I'm doing, I dry fire.

The G21 shoots very well if you give it a chance and work with it. A couple of rounds fired on infrequent range trips aren't going to get you there.

Flash

Thanks,

I own many Glocks but recently had a chance to shoot an STI and an Ed Brown. I literally couldn't miss within reason; much easier to shoot and much more forgiving.

I shoot my Gen 4 34 well for me but not like these 1911's.

I'm an older guy with poor eyesight but enjoy target shooting. A group with my Glocks is 4 or 5 inches on a good day at 10 or 15 yards. The STI Trojan shot literally the same hole every time; I was very impressed.

I was curious about the 21 as to the overall accuracy, all things being equal.

dakrat
09-14-2012, 12:56
In theory, a quality 1911 should be more accurate than Glocks. I shoot both platform just about equally in terms of accuracy. it does take time to get used to the Glock trigger but it is a fairly accurate pistol if the shooter does his job.

fnfalman
09-14-2012, 16:13
I don't have a G21 but I do have a G20SF. I would not admit it in the Tactical Tupperware subforum, but that Glock ain't no slouch in the accuracy department.

RWBlue
09-14-2012, 16:26
I have several 1911's but am thinking about a Gen 4 21 for target shooting.

To anyone that has both; can you shoot the 21 as accurately as a good 1911?

Thanks,

Gen4, I have no idea.

Gen3 G21 vs. 1911 of simular cost..... I had bad luck with cheap 1911s. So I got a Colt Gold Cup, it was reliable and had a MUCH better trigger.

I shoot my G21 better than my 1911. Then again, I like shooting my G21 and the 1911 just never felt right. I like 3 dot sights.

Am I a die hard bullseye shooter, no, not even close.

bac1023
09-14-2012, 17:07
Start with a 1911. Make it weigh 30% less, make it 30% fatter, and then add 3 pounds to the trigger pull with a lot of take up and overtravel. It it going to shoot as accurately? No way. Very few shooters are more accurate with a Glock.

:goodpost:

Short Cut
09-14-2012, 21:33
Before I bought my first 1911, a Baer TRS, I had over 30k rounds through two G30s and G21. I had also shot at least 10k+ through a couple of G34s and had some decent time with a G20 as well.

The first day I owned the Baer my groups inproved noticably.

FLIPPER 348
09-14-2012, 21:50
To anyone that has both; can you shoot the 21 as accurately as a good 1911?

Thanks,



for me it's:

-1911s for fun

-G21 or 30 for war

AKRover
09-14-2012, 22:04
This isn't exactly an answer to your question as both my 1911 and Glock are both 10mm I stead of 45. That being said I shoot my Glock 20 a lot better than my 1911. I've had the Glock for over 5 years and have put thousands of rounds through it while my 1911 is still fairly new and I'm still getting used to how it shoots.

brokenprism
09-14-2012, 22:22
I've owned many many 1911s, and a handful of Glock 21s. I shoot both equally well, but I love the feel of a 1911 in my hand. My hand was made to wrap around a 1911 grip frame with walnut stocks.

The Glock 21, God bless it, feels like a brick, That said, all the 21s I've owned were ACCURATE! Straight out of the box -- load, and shoot. Only a few 1911s have shot as well, and they weren't Colts, they were Springfield Mil Specs. The only Kimber I ever owned was a dog. So... I love the 21, and if they built it to Glock 22/17/31 dimensions, I'd boy a box of them. I'll have to content myself with a 1911 for now.

MinervaDoe
09-14-2012, 23:08
I own both and I think they both shoot accurately. But, at twenty five yards, I believe my 1911s are more accurate than my G21.
Also, I think the 1911 trigger is hard to beat, while the Glock trigger takes a lot of practice and is not for everybody.
Ironically, at 25 yards, I shoot nearly as well with my G20 (10mm) as I do with my 1911s.

dsa1115
09-14-2012, 23:11
A Glock 21 can shoot better than you can shoot it. It ain't the arrow, it's the indian.

klmmicro
09-14-2012, 23:35
I shoot both equally well. A 1911 seems to fit my hand better, but the G20/G21 frame fits well enough. We are individuals and different designs feel different to each of us. Enjoy diversity!

Roger1079
09-15-2012, 07:08
In the Cop Talk section of the latest isuue of American Handgunner magazine,Massad Ayoob said of the groupings that the Gen 4 G21 was putting up
"That's target pistol territory:what we expect from $2,000 semi-custom 1911's,not economy priced run-in-the -mud Glocks."I cannot take anything from Massad Ayoob in any way shape or form, but there is no comparison between a match grade 1911 and a G21 of any generation.

Of course the Glock is accurate as are every other size/caliber combination of the Glock pistol. I can punch holes with my G30 that are as impressive as they can be for my shooting ability with both my 1911 and my G30. Comparing them though is a different story and as said above, apples to oranges.

My Kimber Raptor shoots like butter and feels like it was made for my hand. All this with almost no recoil. My glock does not give any of that however it is accurate as all hell and I have no doubt it will go bang every time.

All that being laid out on the table, my 1911 see's the range and my G27 sees my IWB holster daily.

R0CKETMAN
09-16-2012, 05:45
My 21SF was a great shooter(video below) and my gen4 FDE feels and shoots even better. Both hold their own with my 1911s
with me behind the trigger.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/984fe5a501a2674febe8e399afd37457.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlzIQskJj0w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

bac1023
09-16-2012, 06:40
Very cool

prez1967
09-16-2012, 06:49
I shoot my 1911s accurately with more ease... but I have no experience with 500-600 1911s. Dollar for dollar my G21 is plenty accurate... but if precision is what im looking for i pick up one of my Springfield 1911s.

If im looking for combat accuracy, my G21 never skips a beat. Now i've been toying with the idea of having a Bar-Sto barrel fitted to the G21... maybe a trigger job and some upgraded sights and who is to say what can happen.

As they sit now, with this average shooter, my 1911s are the tack drivers.

Gary1911A1
09-16-2012, 06:59
I can admit to my bias on this. See my on-line name. The 1911 has such a better trigger than the Glock I'll choose the 1911 ever time. Even if I was to leave my beloved 1911s' I wouldn't pick the Glock though. I'd go M&P or HK before going Glock.

Shark1007
09-16-2012, 16:19
At home defense ranges, not too much difference, but I shoot a 1911 better. If someone had a knife to wife's throat, I'd want to be holding a 1911.

wrx04
09-16-2012, 16:56
I brought my G19 and CQB to the range today. Ive been giving the 1911's all the trigger time lately, and it showed. I was practicing rapid-fire drills at 10 yards, and the WC blew the glock out of the water. Much easier for me to shoot well.

That being said, i feel glocks are great guns, and very accurate. The fact that ive gotten used to the 1911 trigger/weight/sights/ etc...is what made the difference. Im sure if i shot the glock exclusively for the next three months, the results might be switched.

Glocks are accurate. Hickock45 with a glock would outshoot 98% of the guys on here with their favorite 1911.

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/7338/img0006cx.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/img0006cx.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Teecher45
09-23-2012, 13:12
A Glock 21 can shoot better than you can shoot it. It ain't the arrow, it's the indian.
Agree. You would have to be a very, very good shooter to shoot better than the Gen 4 21 can. Stock.

Clutch Cargo
09-23-2012, 22:43
I shoot no handgun as well as a 1911. Accuracy and how well a handgun fits your hand go together. I shoot Sigs almost as well as a 1911, but Mr. Browning got it right.

MikeG36
09-24-2012, 01:40
Here's my $600 1911. 100% reliable with everything I've fed it. I don't think I can duplicate this with my Glock. (I missed a 50 shot one hole group with a flier near 12:00 O'clock.) Edited to add that this was 10 yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/Mike16610/Para_GI_2.jpg

I shoot my Glocks pretty well but just not as good as a 1911.

JackMac
09-24-2012, 15:54
I have several 1911 Colts and one G21. I am more familiar with the 1911 and am prejudiced toward it. However, I do like the G21 a lot and keep one handy at home as my "go to" handgun. My 1911's have retired to the safe, for now. I carried a 1911 for years.

s&wfan
09-24-2012, 16:01
In the Cop Talk section of the latest isuue of American Handgunner magazine,Massad Ayoob said of the groupings that the Gen 4 G21 was putting up
"That's target pistol territory:what we expect from $2,000 semi-custom 1911's,not economy priced run-in-the -mud Glocks."


I love that guy, but I think he's full of poop on that one. It's funny how all of the gun magazine guys can squeeze out 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards with just about any gun out there. They are pretty elite.

.45Super-Man
09-24-2012, 22:02
Try shooting both with only one hand and let us know the results.

RetailNinja
09-24-2012, 22:53
I shoot my Glock 21s better because of my 1911s. The trigger break and reset is comparable IMO. My Glock 21SF is my work gun and it's a damn SBR, my TRS is a laser beam. I love them both.

Gary1911A1
09-25-2012, 08:40
As my on-line name suggest, I'm a 1911 Fan. I do shoot Glocks, but find the trigger and grip angle to be so different between the two I have to shoot a Glock exclusely to be able to shoot well with it. When I go back to a 1911 though I find I can just pick it up and be shooting as well as I did before in a few mags. The 1911 is just an old best friend to me.

Deriffe
09-26-2012, 13:11
Own both, regularly shoot both, and the weather / situation dictates whether I carry a 1911 or G21 but I do carry both. I love shooting both. Each tool has its' purpose.

ricklee4570
10-02-2012, 12:33
I wonder how a G21 would feel with the grip reduction work done to it. They say that removing the "hump" makes it point more like a 1911.