9mm Powder suggestions [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Rich22
09-17-2012, 14:34
Now that I know enough to have not blown myself up in the first 4K rounds loading 9mm I am looking for powder suggestions. I currently only have unique, my main issue with it is that it is inconsistent in the powder measure. What I am looking for is to take the velocities up quite a bit. Not looking for anything insane but I do like hot loads generally and from what I have read Unique will not do this well. Big things are

Good consistency in powder measures, I have the stock one with the LNL AP.

Excellent velocity with normal pressures.

As low a recoil as possible while achieving fairly high velocity.

Nothing extremely expensive.

If it could be cleaner that would be a plus, found Unique to be a bit dirty but that is not a very big problem.

Thanks for the suggestions in advance.

Rich

Cfish
09-17-2012, 15:08
Look into WSF. It should the things your asking.

emb111
09-17-2012, 15:36
I too use WSF. It covers the bases on every weight bullet that I want reload for both my 9s and 45s. It also fills the cases, meters well through my Dillon 550, and it is impossible to double charge a case. I have developed loads for a wide range of bullet weights in both calibers that are more accurate than me. I have never bothered to chronograph loads for these calibers. It simply hasn't been necessary for my purposes. I've also never compared to the loads I developed using Unique, but I think it is cleaner.

Good luck.

DarkShooter
09-17-2012, 15:42
I like 231 because it meters great and is very consistent, but it wont get the velocity you're after. Maybe Power Pistol?

Be safe - never exceed the max charge, and don't change componets w/o backing off first.


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DoctaGlockta
09-17-2012, 15:56
Unique is the wonder powder.

Get a better powder measure ;)

ColoCG
09-17-2012, 16:06
As has been said by others WSF and Power Pistol are good powders to try and reach your goal.
I think you can also achieve what you want with Unique. If you are experiencing dirty loads it is probably because your Unique load is too light.

It burns much cleaner from midrange loads up. Small inconsistancies in your charge of Unique usually are just not a big deal unless you are loading on the Edge of max. Accuracy with Unique will also be about as good as the others or better.

Rich22
09-17-2012, 16:17
As has been said by others WSF and Power Pistol are good powders to try and reach your goal.
I think you can also achieve what you want with Unique. If you are experiencing dirty loads it is probably because your Unique load is too light.

It burns much cleaner from midrange loads up. Small inconsistancies in your charge of Unique usually are just not a big deal unless you are loading on the Edge of max. Accuracy with Unique will also be about as good as the others or better.

Interesting, I am doing max or very very close to max load although with a bit longer OAL. Reason I have been concerned with the variation is that I am close to max so I am extremely careful, I do like that a double charge is an impossibility however and that a normal charge is very easy to see in the case.

Zombie Steve
09-17-2012, 16:48
Unique is great for top-end loads in 9mm.

WSF is also good and meters better. In .45 auto, I've found it to be a little softer shooting while attaining the same speeds as Unique. The only down side I can think of is that there just isn't as much data out there for WSF as there is for Unique.

Colorado4Wheel
09-17-2012, 17:37
Interesting, I am doing max or very very close to max load although with a bit longer OAL. Reason I have been concerned with the variation is that I am close to max so I am extremely careful, I do like that a double charge is an impossibility however and that a normal charge is very easy to see in the case.

1. You should post your complete load data
2. If unique isn't doing it, check the data for, power pistol, aa#9, and longshot.
3. Settle the powder in the measure better, never bump the measure after you start loading, keep it half full or better.

and most important...

4. Stop loading near Max on a progressive press.

WiskyT
09-17-2012, 17:57
For the most part, I get higher velocity with Unique than I do with Power Pistol. This is because I am using 30 year old data for Unique which actually gets the bullet all the way out of the barrel. Power Pistol being a relatively new powder, has new data. New data is suck data. If people would just use 30 year old manuals and Unique, we wouldn't have so many threads where new reloaders can't get their 9mm loads to cycle the slide.

dkf
09-17-2012, 17:59
Power Pistol will work well and help keep pressures low at max loadings. Meters pretty good in my experience. It does not take up as much case volume as say AA7 or AA9 but you will notice a double charge for sure.

fredj338
09-17-2012, 18:18
Unique is great for top-end loads in 9mm.

WSF is also good and meters better. In .45 auto, I've found it to be a little softer shooting while attaining the same speeds as Unique. The only down side I can think of is that there just isn't as much data out there for WSF as there is for Unique.

WSF, it's pretty much spherical Unique. I find in several calibers, it's veryslightly slower than Unique. So if I do not have WSF data. using starting Unique data is really, really close.

glock_19guy1983
09-17-2012, 18:33
Universal clays has a similar burn rate and meters much better than unique.

SARDG
09-17-2012, 18:46
I probably am not looking for the same velocity specs as you, but I love VV N320 which I use for 124s and 147s when I'm looking for a soft-shooter with a low PF.

320:

Meters well in a Dillon 650
Burns clean
Is virtually smokeless and flashless (and stinkless)
Is light gray in color to see easily in the case when loading
Will fill a case if double-charged


It is however:

Expensive, and
Difficult to find

tango44
09-17-2012, 20:55
WIN 231 for me!

Electrikkoolaid
09-17-2012, 21:11
WSF, WST, Power Pistol will all meet your requirements.

shotgunred
09-17-2012, 21:58
In 9mm I am a WSF fan.

Fwdftw
09-17-2012, 22:03
WIN 231 for me!

Yup, 4.6gr ,115gr FMJ , 1.120OAL

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shotgunred
09-18-2012, 06:03
Win 231 is not the best choice if you are trying to push the velocity curve. You would want a slower powder. WSF, Power Pistol or better yet longshot. However looking at load data auto comp and Universal are in the same neighborhood for 124gr 9mm's. If you are shooting something lighter you could even look at HS6.

Rich22
09-18-2012, 07:18
1. You should post your complete load data
2. If unique isn't doing it, check the data for, power pistol, aa#9, and longshot.
3. Settle the powder in the measure better, never bump the measure after you start loading, keep it half full or better.

and most important...

4. Stop loading near Max on a progressive press.

Your correct, should have posted this

124gr PD RN Jacketed
Federal SPP
Normal plinking load 5.4gr Unique
1.15 OAL
Shot from G19, G26, Sig P250

Powder measure is kept 3/4 full on average I have cleaned it out several times and have used the (not sure if this really has any effect or not) technique of using the dryer sheet to reduce the static cling in the powder measure. According to Hornady CS the variation I am seeing which is on average +/- .2 gr is normal for Unique, My normal plinking load is 5.4 90% of the charges I have weighed, I usually check at least 10% of the charges, is between 5.2 and 5.6 and never had a charge over 5.7 or under 5.0. For my OCD self this just doesn't work for me though. On all my loads when I have been going at max I have checked every charge and that gets way too time consuming and takes away the advantage of a progressive press.

Data I have says max for a 124 is 5.8gr Unique at 1.12 OAL. On the ones that I have loaded at that I have seen no pressure signs although with my experience level it would likely have to be blatantly obvious for me to see it. Do not have a chrono yet but that is likely in the very near future.

Appreciate the info so far. Looks like there are a whole lot of choices out there that I have not considered.

Rich

Colorado4Wheel
09-18-2012, 07:50
That is a HUGE variation. My Dillon powder measure will measure unique plus or minus .1 gr. So if I set it at 5.0 I get 5.0 most the time but occasionally it's 4.9 or 5.1.

1) Did you clean the drop tube and the measure using some cleaner and then alcohol? That is imperative.
2) Do you tap the side of the measure to settle the powder, THEN throw 10 charges, THEN do the real measurement?
3) Did you install the powder baffle in the measure?
4) Are you being sure to operate the press the same time every time? In other words, if you get a jam (which invariably jostles the press) do you keep that charge or dump it? You have to DUMP every charge that is not created during a smooth operation of the press. The same operation that you used to create your test charges.

Unique has a habit of settling into the chamber of the powder measure differently if bump it during operation. If you avoid that issue it meters fine.

Rich22
09-18-2012, 08:28
That is a HUGE variation. My Dillon powder measure will measure unique plus or minus .1 gr. So if I set it at 5.0 I get 5.0 most the time but occasionally it's 4.9 or 5.1.

1) Did you clean the drop tube and the measure using some cleaner and then alcohol? That is imperative.
2) Do you tap the side of the measure to settle the powder, THEN throw 10 charges, THEN do the real measurement?
3) Did you install the powder baffle in the measure?
4) Are you being sure to operate the press the same time every time? In other words, if you get a jam (which invariably jostles the press) do you keep that charge or dump it? You have to DUMP every charge that is not created during a smooth operation of the press. The same operation that you used to create your test charges.

Unique has a habit of settling into the chamber of the powder measure differently if bump it during operation. If you avoid that issue it meters fine.

1. Alcohol no but did with cleaner and Hornady one shot
2. tap the side of the measure and then I have thrown 5 and disregarded those and then went ahead and done usually 20 charges and did once do 50 and recorded all of them before calling Hornady so I could say with confidence what my data set was
3 Yep cleaned and installed in correct orientation
4 Anything that is even the slightest bit "weird" and I clear the press and redo everything on there including dumping any charged cases

I do not touch the measure during operation but I would imagine there is vibration that gets transferred up to the measure during normal operation even with the press bolted down securely.

Colorado4Wheel
09-18-2012, 08:44
Did you also do the metering insert?

I would alcohol everything.

Colorado4Wheel
09-18-2012, 08:50
Also, be sure the inside of the drop tube is smooth.

Rich22
09-18-2012, 09:30
Did you also do the metering insert?

I would alcohol everything.

Yep Whole thing. I will give the alcohol a shot thanks

Colorado4Wheel
09-18-2012, 09:38
Also be sure your getting complete travel out of your powder measure.

Rich22
09-18-2012, 10:16
Also be sure your getting complete travel out of your powder measure.

Oh yeah, that was one of my first mistakes but has since been long corrected.

Tree Rat
09-18-2012, 17:07
Over the years as I went down this path this is what I have learned;

Universal Clays - Good powder. Burns clean, meters very well, available and standard pricing. Down fall is it's pressure spikey at the top end.

Power Pistol - Great powder. Burns clean, meters like water, available and standard pricing. Exhibits the lowest pressure for velocity in it's range. Awesome top end 147 grain powder for AR Carbines. Down fall is it yields lots of blast, flash and boom, although some like thease features.

N340, 3N38, N350 - Awsome powder. Absolute cleanest burn, meters well, good top end perfomance. Downsfalls are availability and insane price points.

Autocomp - Good powder. Burns clean, meters outstanding, available with standard pricing. Downfalls are it is pressure spikey at top end much like Universal with snappy recoil.

Unique - I dont understand the following this stuff has. Burns like sludge, meters like rocks, and you can't stuff enough in a 9mm or 40 case to amount to anything. It is available with standard pricing.

WSF - This is my go to powder for 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP performance loads. Meters very well, burns clean, reasonable pressure and mild recoil impulse close to max. Available with standard pricing. Only downfall is the data is significantly conservative and you have to work up your loads, in your guns, carefully to achieve it's potential. I can easily duplicate most 124 JHP, 180 JHP, and 230 JHP defense loads with WSF with confidence.

Again as always, work up any loads, in YOUR guns with care.


TR

WiskyT
09-18-2012, 17:22
Unique - I dont understand the following this stuff has. Burns like sludge, meters like rocks, and you can't stuff enough in a 9mm or 40 case to amount to anything. It is available with standard pricing.



TR

Let's see, I can launch 125 lead pills at 1000fps for plinkers, or a jacketed 125 at 1250 with non+P data. Yup Unique is pretty well useless. Anybody who actually uses it knows better than to repeat the internet drivel of "sludge" and "meters like rocks". I guess my Dillon, Lee and Lyman measures must be so much different than yours that it somehow meters just fine in my measures. My G17, not a carry gun, usually gets cleaned every 500 rounds or so. I clean my carry guns every time I shoot them, but that's to get the dust bunnies out of them, not the powder fouling.

Tree Rat
09-18-2012, 17:32
Good for you. You like it, I don't. I speak no internet drivel.

It ain't like I was speaking ill of your sister.


TR

Colorado4Wheel
09-18-2012, 18:36
He has something going on besides just the powder.

Tree Rat
09-18-2012, 18:43
Has a funny Avitar though.


TR

tnpatriot
09-18-2012, 19:20
I shoot lead 147 FP and WSF is my favorite. Universal Clays is very good too.

WiskyT
09-19-2012, 03:45
Has a funny Avitar though.


TR

C4W wasn't refering to me. He's talking about the guy who is getting 0.4 grain swings with his powder measure.

fredj338
09-19-2012, 13:08
Let's see, I can launch 125 lead pills at 1000fps for plinkers, or a jacketed 125 at 1250 with non+P data. Yup Unique is pretty well useless. Anybody who actually uses it knows better than to repeat the internet drivel of "sludge" and "meters like rocks". I guess my Dillon, Lee and Lyman measures must be so much different than yours that it somehow meters just fine in my measures. My G17, not a carry gun, usually gets cleaned every 500 rounds or so. I clean my carry guns every time I shoot them, but that's to get the dust bunnies out of them, not the powder fouling.

^^THIS^^ WSF & Unique are so close together you could sub loading data, so what one will do, so will the other. Neither are good low pressure powders, but WSF is a bit better down there. It meters fine in my Dillon & RCBS measures, but you have to have them setup properly. I think WSF is a bit better because it does meter better, but Unique is far from useless, especially w/ lead bullets. I have yet to find a more accurate powder w/ std vel loads & lead bullets across a wide range of calibers.:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
09-19-2012, 13:40
C4W wasn't refering to me. He's talking about the guy who is getting 0.4 grain swings with his powder measure.

Exactly.

FM12
09-19-2012, 18:41
Bullseye has worked well for me for ~25 yearsa or so . I have HEARD that Blue Dot does well for 9mm but I've never tried.

I love Bullseye for just about everything. I put it on my taters instead of pepper!

FM12
09-19-2012, 18:43
Wisky T: You forgot "flammable dirt"!

WiskyT
09-19-2012, 18:55
Bullseye has worked well for me for ~25 yearsa or so . I have HEARD that Blue Dot does well for 9mm but I've never tried.

I love Bullseye for just about everything. I put it on my taters instead of pepper!

I love Bullseye too. I use it for light loads with my soft home cast bullets. If I go above light loads with my soft bullets, I get leading with it, but that's what Unique is for. With commercial hardcast bullets, or home cast bullets of harder alloy, or with jacketed bullets, you can load up to the book max if you want to with it.

3.5 Bullseye is the sweet spot with three of my calibers. I use that charge for a cast 158 in 38Spl, a cast 125 in 9mm, and a cast 180 in 40SW. I don't even have to change the powder measure to load three calibers.

Not that Bullseye and Unique are the only way to get a bullet to the target, but they do a great job of it when used as intended.

WiskyT
09-19-2012, 19:02
I forgot about Blue Dot. I only tried one load with it, a hardcast 125 and a max load. I got 1300fps with it and wiped primers. It probably would have worked a bit better with a lower charge, but I can get close to the same velocity with Unique as I would have with a more reasonable BD load. One problem with BD in 9mm is, if you think the case gets crowded with Unique, you will really see what a full case looks like with BD. It pretty much completely fills the 9mm case and then you have to get the bullet in. It definitely will spill on the shell plate if you are using a progressive.

I think BD can do a good job in 9mm, but I think there are better choices in terms of using less powder, spilling less powder, and getting nearly the same velocity. This opinion is based on my very limited use of BD in 9mm. Overall, I don't really have much use for BD and don't keep it around. For auto pistol rounds, I use Unique or PP. For magnum rounds, I use 2400 or Lil'Gun.

DoctaGlockta
09-19-2012, 19:03
Good for you. You like it, I don't. I speak no internet drivel.

It ain't like I was speaking ill of your sister.


TR


You might as well have been.

Tree Rat
09-19-2012, 19:15
Exactly.

Oh....then I'm an idiot......sorry.



TR

Tree Rat
09-19-2012, 19:19
You might as well have been.

Now your really creeping me out.

Maybe I'll give it another try. I'll hit up one of the geezers in the club for a tea cup full and work up some loads in 124 grain.


TR

tnpatriot
09-20-2012, 08:04
Now your really creeping me out.

Maybe I'll give it another try. I'll hit up one of the geezers in the club for a tea cup full and work up some loads in 124 grain.


TR Show respect , get respect. Please define " geezer ". So if you hope to borrow some powder to use it, this tells us that your statement is not based on personal experience. :dunno:

tnpatriot
09-20-2012, 08:14
Good for you. You like it, I don't. I speak no internet drivel.

It ain't like I was speaking ill of your sister.


TR
Why do some people always get their panties in a knot over a simple post like this. Go to the real house wives forum if you are going through menopause , you may fit in there. We are talking about gun powder here.

DoctaGlockta
09-20-2012, 08:16
Now your really creeping me out.

Maybe I'll give it another try. I'll hit up one of the geezers in the club for a tea cup full and work up some loads in 124 grain.


TR

Some of us here are pretty serious about our beloved Unique. If Jack was around he might have a few (well ok many) things to say as well.

I've stated here many times that Unique should change its marketing tag line to say:

"Unique Smokeless Powder - It ain't just for Grandpa anymore"

tnpatriot
09-20-2012, 08:18
Oh....then I'm an idiot......sorry.



TR I agree on this one. Why, yes, you actually do appear to be a idiot . No need to apologize, we all understand

Kentguy
09-20-2012, 08:24
Rich22,

I must be to only person on this forum who has never tried Unique, so I really can't speak to that powder. I have tried these and have had good success within the criteria you have spelled out.
Alliant Bullseye, Power Pistol
Hodgdon HS6, Universal
Winchester AutoComp, 231, WSF

It would be hard to say which one would be the "best" because they all have different characteristics, but IMHO you can't go wrong with Hodgdon Universal and/or Winchester WSF. Both meter well and (as mentioned) cover a wide range of uses.

Good luck and be safe

Tree Rat
09-20-2012, 17:16
To the OP - Rich22. I'm sorry to be the lightning rod for blowing this thread up with my comments about a certain gun powder. Good luck with your search and be careful with your workups whatever you choose.

For you other defensive malcontents - I agree, it's just powder which doesn't justify getting ones panties in a wad. Obviously I have reached some strong opinions about certain products in our hobby. These opinions are personal to me and launching off with the "Unique is the best ever, so you and your stuff must be all hosed up tirade" is when this thing went down hill.

It used to be around here a bunch of us could have some irrevrent banter with some humility and self defication about ones choices in our sport/hobby without any real anomosity or personal slights. I apologize for upsetting the apple cart with the new crew.

What the hell happend to this place................



TR

tnpatriot
09-20-2012, 17:23
WIN 231 for me!
I get pretty good accuracy with 231, but I always seem to get a lot of unburned powder . Any of y'all experence this?

tnpatriot
09-20-2012, 17:28
To the OP - Rich22. I'm sorry to be the lightning rod for blowing this thread up with my comments about a certain gun powder. Good luck with your search and be careful with your workups whatever you choose.

For you other defensive malcontents - I agree, it's just powder which doesn't justify getting ones panties in a wad. Obviously I have reached some strong opinions about certain products in our hobby. These opinions are personal to me and launching off with the "Unique is the best ever, so you and your stuff must be all hosed up tirade" is when this thing went down hill.

It used to be around here a bunch of us could have some irrevrent banter with some humility and self defication about ones choices in our sport/hobby without any real anomosity or personal slights. I apologize for upsetting the apple cart with the new crew.

What the hell happend to this place................



TR
Seems to me ,you are the only one with a panty wad. I think what you have found hear is a little maturity. Grow up and hang with us or go back to the house till you do.

Tree Rat
09-20-2012, 17:54
Seems to me ,you are the only one with a panty wad. I think what you have found hear is a little maturity. Grow up and hang with us or go back to the house till you do.

Sure your right. I'm glad to see you reconize who I was primarily addressing here.

Last post on this thread....you win.


TR

CanMan
09-20-2012, 18:11
WW231 or Power Pistol. Both have worked well for me in 9mm loads. I've only used Unique (years ago) in .357 Mag. Bullseye is the powder de jour for double charges.

WiskyT
09-20-2012, 19:08
I get pretty good accuracy with 231, but I always seem to get a lot of unburned powder . Any of y'all experence this?

I only used one pound of it, but I didn't find that. I did find that it acted more like Bullseye with lead bullets than Unique, it was limited to lighter loads before leading set in, but I didn't have unburned powder. It could be the data you were using. See if you can look some older data they might be a little warmer, that might clean things up since unburned powder is usually from too light a charge. With a fast powder like 231 though, it usually doesn't happen as light charges usually work well with fast powders.

Shooter64
09-20-2012, 19:27
I use Bullseye, W231, and Unique for 9mm.

Bullseye for 90gr bullets, W231 and Unique for 115gr and 124gr bullets.

Gpruitt54
09-22-2012, 00:00
WSF, it's pretty much spherical Unique. I find in several calibers, it's veryslightly slower than Unique. So if I do not have WSF data. using starting Unique data is really, really close.

On the topic of spherical powder. I have heard many say that Unique is a spherical powder. Well, I have Unique, HP-38, and Accurate #2. Of the three, only Accurate #2 is a spherical ball powder, Unique and HP-38 are actually flake powders. Unique has a much larger flake than HP-38. But they are definitely not spherical ball powders.

I really like Accurate #2 simply because it is a spherical powder and as such, measures very well with the Lee auto desk measures. I very much want to try other powders. But only if they are true spherical ball powders. Are there any recommendations. Maybe Accurate #5 or #7???

Gpruitt54
09-22-2012, 00:13
I just did an experiment using Unique. I went to the Alliance website and looked at the load data for 115gn 9mm FMJ. It says to use 6.3gn.

I hand weighed 6.3gn of Unique and poured the powder load into a sized the primed 9mm casing. To my surprise, the powder load filled the case to the top of the case neck. There seemed to be absolutely no room to seat a pulled without compressing the powder. I've read that compressing in the case is something to be avoided.

So, if my experiment is correct, as indicated in the Alliance website, how do you get 6.x grains of Unique into a 9mm casing and still seat the bullet?

Hope this question is not to far of the rails.

WiskyT
09-22-2012, 05:22
I just did an experiment using Unique. I went to the Alliance website and looked at the load data for 115gn 9mm FMJ. It says to use 6.3gn.

I hand weighed 6.3gn of Unique and poured the powder load into a sized the primed 9mm casing. To my surprise, the powder load filled the case to the top of the case neck. There seemed to be absolutely no room to seat a pulled without compressing the powder. I've read that compressing in the case is something to be avoided.

So, if my experiment is correct, as indicated in the Alliance website, how do you get 6.x grains of Unique into a 9mm casing and still seat the bullet?

Hope this question is not to far of the rails.

There is nothing wrong with compressing loads. If Alliant lists it as safe, it's safe. I run 6.0 with a 124 all the time.

Second, HP38 is ball powder that has been flattened. Why they roll the balls like oats to flatten them I have no idea, but that's what they do with that powder, hence the "ball powder" designation on the bottle.

And AA5 is similar to Unique in burn rate. I have one pound that I use for loading 12G slugs and it flows almost too well. I haven't used it in my Autodisk, but it leaks on my Lee Loadall II. Granted, the Loadall has very lose tolerances, it doesn't leak with Red Dot. I'm only guessing on this, but I could see where AA5 might leak on an Autodisk even though it has tighter clearances.

Zombie Steve
09-22-2012, 08:22
It used to be around here a bunch of us could have some irrevrent banter with some humility and self defication about ones choices in our sport/hobby without any real anomosity or personal slights. I apologize for upsetting the apple cart with the new crew.

What the hell happend to this place................



TR

Jack ain't been posting for a while.

:whistling:

Gpruitt54
09-22-2012, 09:31
Hay, I am a new reloader. New reloaders like me, are not likely to redefine or ignore what the manuals recommend. An experienced reloader like your self can do that with a large degree of comfort, but not someone who is just getting started. All of the manuals I have read (Lyman, Lee, Hornady) say that you should not ever compress powder. But,if the manuals are wrong; then, the manuals are wrong. I’ll buy that.

So, a powder that comes outof the bottle as small spherical graduals (like Accurate #2) is called spherical powder. OK, I get that. But if a powder is manufactured as small spherical graduals, but later in the manufacturing process; is pressed into flakes (like Unique), is called spherical powder??? That makes no since to me. Why is this product defined per an incomplete part of its manufacturing process? When you pour Unique out of its bottle, it comes out as individual flat flakes; not spherical graduals. It’s flake powder??? No?

Sorry for the dumb questions,I am trying to get educated on all things reloading. You experienced guys are confusing a new, buy the book learner. I don’t know when it’s OK to ignore the manuals.

On this point specfically, I 've been having issues measureing flake powder. I recently discovered Accurate #2. It measures very well in my Lee ProAuto Disk. Acc #2 is not giving me the FPS I need so, I am looking for other Spherical powders, powders pour from it's bottle as small spherical granduals.

Colorado4Wheel
09-22-2012, 09:54
Don't worry about powder shape type. Just find one that works for you. WSF. Power Pistol.

fredj338
09-22-2012, 10:28
On the topic of spherical powder. I have heard many say that Unique is a spherical powder. Well, I have Unique, HP-38, and Accurate #2. Of the three, only Accurate #2 is a spherical ball powder, Unique and HP-38 are actually flake powders. Unique has a much larger flake than HP-38. But they are definitely not spherical ball powders.
I really like Accurate #2 simply because it is a spherical powder and as such, measures very well with the Lee auto desk measures. I very much want to try other powders. But only if they are true spherical ball powders. Are there any recommendations. Maybe Accurate #5 or #7???

Well Unique is certainly not anything but a flake powder. AA#2 is actually a ball powder, HP38/W231 are the same spherical powder. The diff is, ball is just that, small little balls. Spherical is a flattend ball powder. The terms are pretty interchangeable. Yes, AA#5 is a better choice for 9mm if you want to stay w/ a ball powder.
"HP38 is a spherical powder that is great for low velocity and mid-range target loads in the .38 Special, .44 Special, and 45 ACP".
The only importance in knowing powder type is for choosing powders to run well in certain measures, Ball or spherical will always meter smoother & more uniformly, but you can get a flake powder to meter well enough.

WiskyT
09-22-2012, 11:05
Hay, I am a new reloader. New reloaders like me, are not likely to redefine or ignore what the manuals recommend. An experienced reloader like your self can do that with a large degree of comfort, but not someone who is just getting started. All of the manuals I have read (Lyman, Lee, Hornady) say that you should not ever compress powder. But,if the manuals are wrong; then, the manuals are wrong. Iíll buy that.

So, a powder that comes outof the bottle as small spherical graduals (like Accurate #2) is called spherical powder. OK, I get that. But if a powder is manufactured as small spherical graduals, but later in the manufacturing process; is pressed into flakes (like Unique), is called spherical powder??? That makes no since to me. Why is this product defined per an incomplete part of its manufacturing process? When you pour Unique out of its bottle, it comes out as individual flat flakes; not spherical graduals. Itís flake powder??? No?

Sorry for the dumb questions,I am trying to get educated on all things reloading. You experienced guys are confusing a new, buy the book learner. I donít know when itís OK to ignore the manuals.

On this point specfically, I 've been having issues measureing flake powder. I recently discovered Accurate #2. It measures very well in my Lee ProAuto Disk. Acc #2 is not giving me the FPS I need so, I am looking for other Spherical powders, powders pour from it's bottle as small spherical granduals.

I agree about staying within the manuals. Everyone should heed them, not just new reloaders. I have never seen an admonishment against compressing powders in manuals, and I own several. Some of my manuals even follow a given charge with a "C" or an "*" to denote a compressed charge.

As far as powder shape nomenclature, it has to do with how the powder granules are formed. Stick powders are extruded through a die and cut of in short lengths forming sticks. Flake powders are extruded through dies and cut into thin wafers, sort of like bologna being sliced on a deli slicer. Balls powders are formed into balls (I'm not sure how) and either left as balls or flattened a bit (I don't know why).

Also, Winchester uses the term "Ball" as sort of a brand name. So even if a particular powder isn't turly a ball by the time it gets shipped to you, they still use the term "Ball".

WiskyT
09-22-2012, 11:07
Jack ain't been posting for a while.

:whistling:

I thought he meant "self deprecating", but now that you mention it, I agree, he was talking about Jack.

M24C
09-23-2012, 08:34
Depending on the objective of the loads.

If for higher velocity without regard for flash power pistol, AA #7 (though it doesn't flash)

Medium velocity without the flash AA #7, WSF, Universal.

Lower velocity and not much powder though can be dirtier Bullseye and W231.

I personally don't like Unique for the 9mm is due to the loads I shoot it tends to spill out when loading on the 550b Dillon. I do load it on the 40 S&W but I don't like the flash for the most part.

But the powders I personally like the best for 9mm is WSF, AA #7 and Universal. All clean and low flash. Meters well.

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Jager1
09-23-2012, 10:59
Winchester 231 for light to moderate loads.

Power Pistol for full power loads.

judgecrater
09-24-2012, 00:39
Universal clays has a similar burn rate and meters much better than unique.
I have used a dozen different powders. I went through my notes. I really like Universal for accuracy for both 9mm and 45ACP. Its burn rate is similar to Unique but is much cleaner. It meters in my Dillon great.
Some of my best groups were with Bullseye. I have used a lot of HP38/Win231 but never got the accuracy with the bullets I have tried that I hoped for.

SCmasterblaster
09-27-2012, 13:16
Hodgdon Titegroup

AZ_Quailhunter
09-29-2012, 07:59
AA#7 was created for 9mm, for the Israeli army...mostly for carbine use...and if you do some research, medium burn rate powders work a little better in the 9mm than do fast powders such as Red Dot, Bullseye, AA#2, etc. Some people forget that the 9mm is a fairly high pressure round....33,000 or so. Universal is one I also use, but AA#7 is pretty much my favorite now.

nomadrider
09-29-2012, 18:41
I have been using Blue Dot and after reading this thread, I have a lot of others to try. Thanks.
And if you don't like Blue Dot...well then we meet at Dunkin Donuts and it's Cream Puffs at 10 paces. :-)

njl
09-29-2012, 19:09
I have used a dozen different powders. I went through my notes. I really like Universal for accuracy for both 9mm and 45ACP. Its burn rate is similar to Unique but is much cleaner. It meters in my Dillon great.
Some of my best groups were with Bullseye. I have used a lot of HP38/Win231 but never got the accuracy with the bullets I have tried that I hoped for.

What .45acp load do you like with Universal? I tried it in my first 230gr FMJ loads and was not happy. Low end was super slow and incomplete combustion. Mid range loads had lots of recoil. More recently, I picked up some 185gr JHP. I wonder if it's worth trying a 6gr Universal load with them?

frankmako
09-29-2012, 20:13
aa#5 is what i use in 9mm in my dillon. works well.

molar
09-30-2012, 06:27
Ramshot Silhouette with 115's. Pretty much the same powder as Win action pistol

AA#7 with 124 and 147's

koolaid2313
09-30-2012, 16:34
I shoot in a bullseye league with my Glock 34 and have been trying some different reloads. The most important thing for me is recovery of the sight picture/alignment. I was using Bullseye powder, and now I am using Vit N320. I'm not sure that the N320 is the best to use in my Glock. I have had some issues with cycling...the lower powder measure results in failure to extract, and higher measures result in impossible recovery of the sights on target. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

SARDG
09-30-2012, 17:24
I shoot in a bullseye league with my Glock 34 and have been trying some different reloads. The most important thing for me is recovery of the sight picture/alignment. I was using Bullseye powder, and now I am using Vit N320. I'm not sure that the N320 is the best to use in my Glock. I have had some issues with cycling...the lower powder measure results in failure to extract, and higher measures result in impossible recovery of the sights on target. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
You shoot Bullseye with a Glock 9mil?? Must be a local league. :headscratch:

I use 320 for literally everything and get light loads cycling my 34 racer with 124s and all my stock Glocks with 147s.

What's your load?

koolaid2313
09-30-2012, 17:37
LOL :-) I shoot in a local league at a private club. The gun was affordable so I shoot what I have. One day I will get into a 1911 like the rest of the guys.

I am using 124g Montana Gold. I was using a length of 1.165, and have tried 4.0gn of N320, but 3.8 feels better. 3.8 does not cycle 100% of the time though. I loaded a bunch of 3.8 at 1.162 in length that seemed to do a little better. I have gone from a 15lb guide rod spring to 13, and 11 (based on other people's suggestions) and so far the 11lb does not work at all, and the 13 is what I have in there now.

Thank you for the reply!

koolaid2313
09-30-2012, 17:39
Should have added that I am using CCI primers...

SARDG
09-30-2012, 18:26
LOL :-) I shoot in a local league at a private club. The gun was affordable so I shoot what I have. One day I will get into a 1911 like the rest of the guys.

I am using 124g Montana Gold. I was using a length of 1.165, and have tried 4.0gn of N320, but 3.8 feels better. 3.8 does not cycle 100% of the time though. I loaded a bunch of 3.8 at 1.162 in length that seemed to do a little better. I have gone from a 15lb guide rod spring to 13, and 11 (based on other people's suggestions) and so far the 11lb does not work at all, and the 13 is what I have in there now.

Thank you for the reply!
Is your 34 compensated? My race gun is and wouldn't run with 124 gr MG JHP at 3.8gr of 320 so I worked it up to 4.0 and it still wasn't reliable with that compensator. I bummed a spring off the fellow who actually built the racer and it is apparently a 13# (ISMI) spring with "a coil or so clipped off". It runs perfectly now with that clipped spring and 124 MG JHP, 4.0gr 320 @ 1.132 and gets a MV of 1052 out of my racer with a KKM barrel. All that is moot if your 34 is stock and 4.0gr for a 124 bullet is already around max load. Your OALs seem long to me though - somewhere around maximum SAAMI.

ALL my other Glock 9 mils are running 147 MG CMJ and function perfectly (26, 19, 17, stock 34 - and I feel certain my 17L would too, but haven't tried it.) My stock load shoots as softly as anything I've ever tried and let's me get back on target in action pistol - most of which (but not all) is two-handed. My 147 load is accurate (as a stock Glock can be) out to 75yds. and I've never tried them in anything but a Glock barrel.

The 147s will NOT run my compensator on my racer with 320. So the question remains I suppose... is this 34 stock?

SARDG
09-30-2012, 18:30
I should add that my 124 racer load also works fine in any of my stock Glocks that I tried them in - including my stock 34.

koolaid2313
09-30-2012, 19:05
Is your 34 compensated? My race gun is and wouldn't run with 124 gr MG JHP at 3.8gr of 320 so I worked it up to 4.0 and it still wasn't reliable with that compensator. I bummed a spring off the fellow who actually built the racer and it is apparently a 13# (ISMI) spring with "a coil or so clipped off". It runs perfectly now with that clipped spring and 124 MG JHP, 4.0gr 320 @ 1.132 and gets a MV of 1052 out of my racer with a KKM barrel. All that is moot if your 34 is stock and 4.0gr for a 124 bullet is already around max load. Your OALs seem long to me though - somewhere around maximum SAAMI.

ALL my other Glock 9 mils are running 147 MG CMJ and function perfectly (26, 19, 17, stock 34 - and I feel certain my 17L would too, but haven't tried it.) My stock load shoots as softly as anything I've ever tried and let's me get back on target in action pistol - most of which (but not all) is two-handed. My 147 load is accurate (as a stock Glock can be) out to 75yds. and I've never tried them in anything but a Glock barrel.

The 147s will NOT run my compensator on my racer with 320. So the question remains I suppose... is this 34 stock?

The only other changes that I made to the gun were a tungston guiderod and a competition trigger spring kit. Originally I had a 15lb spring on it, but now I am using the 13lb without a problem at 4.0 of the 320 with the 124 mg. I was just looking to lighten the load a bit because of the one handed shooting and help with the recovery. As for the length, I use the measurement of the magazine. That measurement is 1.190 so 1.165 should load ok....I did find that the 1.162 loaded and cycled better though. That would also result in slightly higher psi.

SARDG
09-30-2012, 19:44
The only other changes that I made to the gun were a tungston guiderod and a competition trigger spring kit. Originally I had a 15lb spring on it, but now I am using the 13lb without a problem at 4.0 of the 320 with the 124 mg. I was just looking to lighten the load a bit because of the one handed shooting and help with the recovery. As for the length, I use the measurement of the magazine. That measurement is 1.190 so 1.165 should load ok....I did find that the 1.162 loaded and cycled better though. That would also result in slightly higher psi.
I'll assume your current loads pass the plunk test in the Glock barrel. I've never tried anything longer in a Glock than 1.146.

I think you'll find less perceived recoil with the 147 and 320.
I can tell you my load, but you better check it with other manual data. I once typed 1.3775" for crimp and I'm pretty sure that's incorrect for a 9mil. :)

147 MG CMJ
3.6gr N320
1.1355 OAL
.3775 Crimp
Starline Brass
Federal SPP
~900 fps from a G34 for a
132.3 PF
(known accurate to 75 yds)

You can reduce that 3.6 to 3.5 gr, 1.138 OAL, for 882 fps from a G17 and a PF of 129.7, but I haven't checked accuracy at 75 yds with that load.

I've never used any other bullet with those loads than the MG.

Do you have a chrono to help work up and check your loads?

koolaid2313
09-30-2012, 19:54
Thank you for the info! I do not have a chrono, but I have friends that do ;-) I will see what happens with the 3.8 at 1.160 with the 124 and get some 147's to try yours out when I can. I only have to be accurate at 50 ft so if I can get what I have to work for now it would help until I get the 147's :-)

Thanks again!

SARDG
09-30-2012, 20:07
Thank you for the info! I do not have a chrono, but I have friends that do ;-) I will see what happens with the 3.8 at 1.160 with the 124 and get some 147's to try yours out when I can. I only have to be accurate at 50 ft so if I can get what I have to work for now it would help until I get the 147's :-)

Thanks again!
50 feet?? I'm gonna have to talk to the guys at my club. They insist on me shooting Bullseye at 25 and 50 yds. :supergrin:

I feel that you will be plenty safe reducing your OAL to something more conventional.

judgecrater
11-14-2012, 12:51
What .45acp load do you like with Universal? I tried it in my first 230gr FMJ loads and was not happy. Low end was super slow and incomplete combustion. Mid range loads had lots of recoil. More recently, I picked up some 185gr JHP. I wonder if it's worth trying a 6gr Universal load with them?
OK Universal loads that are best accuracy for me have been
200 gr LSWC Zero Bullets, 6.2 gr, 1.250 OAL.
and 230gr RN plated Berry's Bullets, 5.7gr Universal.
Sorrry not data on 185 gr. My criteria for "best" in this context is just accuracy.

serger
11-14-2012, 17:18
I shoot a 23 with a Storm Lake 9mm barrel in it. I cast my own 124 grain bullets and in 2009 when I couldn't find any of the "normal" powders I started looking in my old magazines and found some references to Herco. I had a couple pounds of it for shotgun and started looking in the old data. I found that 6 grains of it ran the 124's out nicely and I had no leading. I also found that the same weight powder ran 158 gr semi wad cutters out of the 686 and 66 Smiths for a 38 Special bottom end +P load. The same weight also ran the 230 gr round nose out of the 45ACP. All of these cycle the guns well(for the semi's) and they don't lead up the barrels. I shot up the 2 pounds I had and since then have loaded and shot 8 pounds of it.

Near as I can figure it's running about 4.0 cents per round.

The down side is it's not the cleanest powder. You have to clean your guns after 5 0r 6 hundred rounds(I hate cleaning guns).(not as bad as 700X by any measure)

The up side is the last 4 lb keg I bought had gone from $63.00 to $57.00 . And last weekend when I went to Sportsmans Warehouse the "normal" powders were out of stock but they had Herco.

Just something to think about

CaptainXL
11-15-2012, 11:18
I agree with you. Though a lot of people love and swear by Unique it meters poorly IMO. My favorite powder is Ramshot True Blue. It meters really well and my groups are very consistant from batch to batch of reloads. My smallest groups sizes are with Ramshot True Blue.

#2 on my list of powders is Power Pistol. Meters very good but I cannot seem to get groups as small or consistant as with what I can get True Blue.

njl
11-15-2012, 12:10
I was looking through some saved targets from ammo testing/chrono work, and 4.2gr Longshot under an X-Treme 147gr through my G17 produced an amazingly tight group.

I'll probably try that same load with PD FMJ-TC and see what happens. With the X-Tremes, I was getting just under 900fps