Who's the #@%&* who told me I could shoot .40s&w out of my 10mm bbl? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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G29SFWTF
09-18-2012, 11:37
because it worked just fine in the G29, thanks for the tip :wavey:

The chamber was a little dirty but after shooting about 70 .40 cal rounds, I loaded up 7 rounds of full power 135gr Underwood 10mm and they still chambered and fired ok. Big difference in sound after shooting all those 40's. I think I woke everyone up on the firing line.

Any Cal.
09-18-2012, 13:23
Oh the noes! Now little puppies everywhere are going to die and little children will weep, you will go sterile and people will hate you.

:-)

carlspeed
09-18-2012, 13:41
What would happen in the full size G20 barrel?

G29SFWTF
09-18-2012, 14:35
I don't have a Glock 20 but other folks have posted in this thread saying they have no problem with it.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1442850


This will solve my problem of plinking ammo for the 10mm. Bought some .40 Federal 180gr at wal mart for $25 per box of 100. That's approaching 9mm prices. And I have a 23lb recoil spring but still had no problems other than it didn't seem to throw the brass very far, sort of fell on my shoe is more like it.

dm1906
09-18-2012, 16:25
What would happen in the full size G20 barrel?

Nothing. Not a single thing!

(Unless you load a mag, insert it, cycle the slide, and pull the trigger. In which case, it will go bang, and a bullet will go where you're pointing your pistol. Other than that, quite uneventful....)

wdp
09-18-2012, 16:44
OMG that is so cool, didn't know you could shoot. 40 out of a G20 stock barrel. Sort of solves the range plinking cost dilema of 10mm ammo.

_The_Shadow
09-18-2012, 17:01
You have gone and done it now! Shooting Short and Weak in a 10mm Barrel :wow: ...SHAME on you! What where you thinking? :dunno:

Angry Fist
09-18-2012, 17:02
Have at it. Not me! Good to know in a pinch, though.

glock_19guy1983
09-18-2012, 17:20
Have at it. Not me! Good to know in a pinch, though.

This. 10mm headspaces on the case mouth, running a 40S&W case in a 10mm chamber means that the extractor is the only thing holding it in.

blastfact
09-18-2012, 19:12
Theres a sucker born everyday.... .40 Smith.. LMAO!

Taterhead
09-18-2012, 20:10
I found out something about this recently. I had a bunch of 40 brass that I wanted to decap with live primers (long story). I had my G20 onhand and loaded them from magazines one at a time.

Observations:

Because the cases "head space" on the extractor, many had very very light primer strikes. Some did not fire the first try. A heavier loaded round would likely be less susceptible.

Secondly, extractor abuse. On about 1 out of 5, the case would slip out of the extractor upon primer strike, and was forward inside the chamber. What this tells me is that a live round could slip past the extractor during the engagement of the striker. Upon ignition, the case would slam backward against the extractor and then the breach. It would be like single feeding a 10mm round into the chamber and then letting the slide slam home. You wouldn't know this just by shooting live rounds. Doable in a pinch, but seems a bit unecessarily abusive.

dm1906
09-18-2012, 20:13
This. 10mm headspaces on the case mouth, running a 40S&W case in a 10mm chamber means that the extractor is the only thing holding it in.

Not true. The case mouth is only a limiting factor. Your 10's still space off the extractor, unless the case is long enough to hit both (about 1.002"). As the slide/breach picks up a round from the mag, it slides up the breach, and under the extractor. The case rim is (should) never be forward of the extractor. If it is, it won't fire.

ctious
09-18-2012, 20:15
If your going to do this u really need to make sure your extractor holds them tight. I can tell u that.mine did not. I ended up welding mine up and re cutting it to hold it like I wanted.

Any Cal.
09-18-2012, 20:53
I found out something about this recently. I had a bunch of 40 brass that I wanted to decap with live primers (long story). I had my G20 onhand and loaded them from magazines one at a time.

Observations:

Because the cases "head space" on the extractor, many had very very light primer strikes. Some did not fire the first try. A heavier loaded round would likely be less susceptible.

Secondly, extractor abuse. On about 1 out of 5, the case would slip out of the extractor upon primer strike, and was forward inside the chamber. What this tells me is that a live round could slip past the extractor during the engagement of the striker. Upon ignition, the case would slam backward against the extractor and then the breach. It would be like single feeding a 10mm round into the chamber and then letting the slide slam home. You wouldn't know this just by shooting live rounds. Doable in a pinch, but seems a bit unecessarily abusive.

I think you will find it different if you use loaded ammo. I have had none of those issues in 700 or more rds.

pasky2112
09-19-2012, 11:06
What would happen in the full size G20 barrel?
I shoot them all day in my G20. I don't think it matters, relatively. Just check your extractor and clean your chamber well...esp. b4 going to 10mm rnds. Also, I haven't heard anyone doing this in an auto other than a G20/G29, though. I can't speak for other platforms, personally.

pasky2112
09-19-2012, 11:15
You have gone and done it now! Shooting Short and Weak in a 10mm Barrel :wow: ...SHAME on you! What where you thinking? :dunno:
"Never Cross the Beams!" ;-)

OP, BTW, that's a great way to start a thread if you want fast attn! :wow:

nickE10mm
09-19-2012, 11:30
You wouldn't know this just by shooting live rounds. Doable in a pinch, but seems a bit unecessarily abusive.

Exactly... 100%. Doable in a pinch, otherwise, do it right. That's my take on it.

Tablerock
09-19-2012, 19:41
Agreed with NickE .......Reload your own 10mm rds for "plinking" (if anything from a 10mm could be called plinking) ....LOL

owl6roll
09-19-2012, 19:53
Huuummmm....

pasky2112
09-19-2012, 23:31
Agreed with NickE .......Reload your own 10mm rds for "plinking" (if anything from a 10mm could be called plinking) ....LOL
I believe the OP doesn't reload...?

Taterhead
09-19-2012, 23:43
I think you will find it different if you use loaded ammo. I have had none of those issues in 700 or more rds.

My point is that you wouldn't necessarily know if that was happening. It could very well be, but I hadn't considered that until seeing how the stricker popped the case out of the extractor in a significant number of instances. You could be right though. It is hard to know for sure.

Any Cal.
09-20-2012, 01:08
I would wonder if I had come across the same results you had. Not arguing them, just wondering why the discrepancy exists. I can't get a round to skip past the extractor by hand, and haven't had light strikes; I can see a brass mark on the front of the extractor, but it doesn't look like the case is sliding back over it, more like it is bumping against it. I think I have over 200rds of .40 loaded long w/out any malfs, and the few I had before that (1/50) were due to a poor crimp.

I have only tried a couple of variations on the theme, and in an AM barrel, but haven't had any issues with what I have used. Just wondering why the primed cases worked differently,(I don't think I am having the problems you saw). On BE, one guy had all kinds of issues with light strikes and accuracy in a non-Glock, who knows why it worked in one gun but not another?

glock_collector
09-20-2012, 10:26
I shoot 9mm outta my 10mm and save alot more money than mosta u combined, so ha...

_The_Shadow
09-20-2012, 10:41
I shoot 9x25Dillon from my 10mm, but I change barrels!

dm1906
09-20-2012, 11:14
I shoot 9mm outta my 10mm and save alot more money than mosta u combined, so ha...

Careful what you suggest. Someone's gonna try it. (we're not ALL rocket scientists, ya know....)

I've had a few 9's go through my G22's. All were non-events. Just fired, FTE'd, cleared weapon, checked bore, and life goes on. They were actually fairly accurate. I DO NOT recommend anyone try this (intentionally, anyway).

GGGN
09-20-2012, 15:47
Shot thousands of 40 through my 10's over the yrs. but I also have a few pics of guns blown apart from doing so.(not mine) so to each his own.

Opie 1 Kenopie
09-20-2012, 16:44
I shoot 12 gauge 00 Buck from my G20 so there! No way I'd fire sabot slugs though. That would just be stupid.
:rofl:

Wolf Spyder
09-21-2012, 11:39
I've been gone for a short minute... I have been hanging out over at M4Carbine.net lately.

All of that aside, some of us have been saying for years, it is possible to discharge .40S&W cartridges in a stock Glock 20 barrel, but is not recommended.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18156924#post18156924)

and just a little farther down in that same thread...

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18157683#post18157683)

These links above are not the first time it has been said, but we always try to tell folks to be careful because it can be dangerous. Carry on.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/IMG_0412small.jpg

Yondering
09-22-2012, 00:03
Secondly, extractor abuse. On about 1 out of 5, the case would slip out of the extractor upon primer strike, and was forward inside the chamber. What this tells me is that a live round could slip past the extractor during the engagement of the striker.

I could be wrong, but I'm not convinced this is what was happening for you. Maybe the force of the primer ignition was pushing the case forward past the extractor; this is much more likely that the striker itself pushing the case forward.

I have never experienced this with loaded ammo in the Glock. Not saying it can't happen, but empty primed cases don't tell the whole story.

Of course, maybe there's something wrong with your extractor. With a properly working extractor, a round should not be able to slip past it without ripping off part of the rim. Not going to happen from the striker impact.

Either way, if the round gets in front of the extractor in a Glock, it will not fire.

Javelin
09-22-2012, 00:15
Why not just get a G22/G23 if you want to shoot 40S&W....

Or is that too obvious of an answer?

Ebb27
09-22-2012, 00:23
Why not just get a G22/G23 if you want to shoot 40S&W....

Or is that too obvious of an answer?


Cause they cost $500-600 and you can't shoot 10mm out of them.


I've shot .40 out of my G20 and it works fine but I don't do it on a regular basis. I reload so it's just as easy to reload 10mm as it is .40.

Taterhead
09-22-2012, 17:31
I could be wrong, but I'm not convinced this is what was happening for you. Maybe the force of the primer ignition was pushing the case forward past the extractor; this is much more likely that the striker itself pushing the case forward.

I have never experienced this with loaded ammo in the Glock. Not saying it can't happen, but empty primed cases don't tell the whole story.

Of course, maybe there's something wrong with your extractor. With a properly working extractor, a round should not be able to slip past it without ripping off part of the rim. Not going to happen from the striker impact.

Either way, if the round gets in front of the extractor in a Glock, it will not fire.

I appreciate the comments. My extractor is 100%. The whole thing was strange to me, and it was a bit of a chin scratcher. Brass was not ripped in any way either. I would buy that the primer ignition was the cause, but I found at least a couple of rounds forward of the extractor unfired with light primer strikes. I had about 300 rounds that I discharged, and I was surprised at the weird stuff I saw. :dunno: I do believe that with the inertia of heavier loaded ammo there could be different results.

Trapped_in_Kali
09-23-2012, 01:42
You can do it, but I decided to play it safe and for under $120.00 I got a Lone Wolf .40 barrel to shoot cheaper .40 ammo.
*Note*
So far I usually just get the cheap 10mm ammo at the range and don't bother with the .40.

4949shooter
09-23-2012, 05:03
Why not just get a G22/G23 if you want to shoot 40S&W....

Or is that too obvious of an answer?

Not at all. Either that or just get a .40 conversion barrel.

I guess the only upswing of knowing you could fire .40 ammo out of a 10mm is as mentioned above by nicke10, if you are in a pinch. Take an extreme example...say I was on a hunting trip up in Alaska and stranded somewhere with no 10mm ammo, and the only thing I could scrounge up was some .40 I found in a cabin, it's good to know I could use the .40 ammo in my Glock 20.

Javelin
09-23-2012, 10:39
Not at all. Either that or just get a .40 conversion barrel.

I guess the only upswing of knowing you could fire .40 ammo out of a 10mm is as mentioned above by nicke10, if you are in a pinch. Take an extreme example...say I was on a hunting trip up in Alaska and stranded somewhere with no 10mm ammo, and the only thing I could scrounge up was some .40 I found in a cabin, it's good to know I could use the .40 ammo in my Glock 20.

I like the idea. A 9mm will rattle it's way out of a G23 but just doesn't cycle the action... yeah I know that one first hand :faint:

But I'm still a little leery of purposely feeding .40 through a G20. I will stick with the .40 cal in my G22 & G23 and leave the 10mm to well... 10mm Haha.

:wavey:

4949shooter
09-23-2012, 11:12
I like the idea. A 9mm will rattle it's way out of a G23 but just doesn't cycle the action... yeah I know that one first hand :faint:

But I'm still a little leery of purposely feeding .40 through a G20. I will stick with the .40 cal in my G22 & G23 and leave the 10mm to well... 10mm Haha.

:wavey:

LOL that must have been fun. :supergrin:

sheriff733
09-23-2012, 11:39
What would happen in the full size G20 barrel?

The gun will fall asleep from sheer boredom.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Tablerock
09-23-2012, 13:23
[quote=sheriff733;19448552]The gun will fall asleep from sheer boreddom.



:rofl: :rofl:

Javelin
09-23-2012, 16:11
LOL that must have been fun. :supergrin:

It was 11 years ago and yeah it had a pucker factor to it. The casing completely heat fit to the chamber and it was a very odd looking round when it ejected. Kind of like a reverse top hat.

:rofl:

Opie 1 Kenopie
09-23-2012, 21:44
Not at all. Either that or just get a .40 conversion barrel.

I guess the only upswing of knowing you could fire .40 ammo out of a 10mm is as mentioned above by nicke10, if you are in a pinch. Take an extreme example...say I was on a hunting trip up in Alaska and stranded somewhere with no 10mm ammo, and the only thing I could scrounge up was some .40 I found in a cabin, it's good to know I could use the .40 ammo in my Glock 20.

4949, that's a friggin' hilarious image. Stuck in a snowbound Alaskan cabin, nothin' but dried out biscuits, some hard deer jerky and... some loose .40 ammo lying around. I got a good chuckle outta that one. You might not be too far off the mark though, Alaska State Troopers carry the G22 so there's bound to be some Short & Weak lying around.

4949shooter
09-24-2012, 13:20
4949, that's a friggin' hilarious image. Stuck in a snowbound Alaskan cabin, nothin' but dried out biscuits, some hard deer jerky and... some loose .40 ammo lying around. I got a good chuckle outta that one. You might not be too far off the mark though, Alaska State Troopers carry the G22 so there's bound to be some Short & Weak lying around.

LOL Opie1 I must have too much time on my hands to think this stuff up. :supergrin:

ca survivor
09-25-2012, 10:49
This. 10mm headspaces on the case mouth, running a 40S&W case in a 10mm chamber means that the extractor is the only thing holding it in.
don't worry, soon will see "my extractor broke" :rofl:

attrapereves
09-25-2012, 10:55
I understand that 10mm costs a lot more than 40SW, but if you are only going to shoot 40SW out of a 10mm Glock, why not just buy a 22/23/27?

G29SFWTF
09-25-2012, 11:34
Speaking for myself I'm not going to shoot .40 exclusively. But until I get around to being a reloader, this gives me a lot more shooting time with this g29 than I otherwise would have. I bought the gun used with a bunch of bells and whistles and I've added a few things too and now I just like shooting it.

maxmanta
09-25-2012, 16:28
A quick thought experiment tells me that the extractor is the only thing holding the cartridge against the breech face.

But if it works, do it.

BruceO
09-25-2012, 18:03
Not true. The case mouth is only a limiting factor. Your 10's still space off the extractor, unless the case is long enough to hit both (about 1.002"). As the slide/breach picks up a round from the mag, it slides up the breach, and under the extractor.

Not hardly.

But, if that's what you believe, precede. The extractor was never designed to hold the case against the breach face although shooting the short cases takes advantage of the extractor to breach dimension relationship. Possibly the manufacturer should just eliminate the final machining of the shoulder in the chamber altogether under the premise that it is unnecessary. I mean, there is no need to regulate case length and the COAL length could be limited by the rifling in the leade.

When I see Glock (or any other manufacturer for that matter) say that it is acceptable to shoot ammunition in any gun for which the gun is not chambered, I'll buy into it. Until then, this is a totally false economy and any body who does this is totally on their own if something bad happens.

Oh, incidentally, the "no reloads" argument doesn't hold any water because the reason for it is totally different.

dm1906
09-25-2012, 20:25
Not hardly.

But, if that's what you believe, precede. The extractor was never designed to hold the case against the breach face although shooting the short cases takes advantage of the extractor to breach dimension relationship. Possibly the manufacturer should just eliminate the final machining of the shoulder in the chamber altogether under the premise that it is unnecessary. I mean, there is no need to regulate case length and the COAL length could be limited by the rifling in the leade.

When I see Glock (or any other manufacturer for that matter) say that it is acceptable to shoot ammunition in any gun for which the gun is not chambered, I'll buy into it. Until then, this is a totally false economy and any body who does this is totally on their own if something bad happens.

Oh, incidentally, the "no reloads" argument doesn't hold any water because the reason for it is totally different.

Really? Get out your sliderule....

The 10mm CASE length tolerance is MUCH less than what the extractor allows. You cannot chamber a case, within tolerance, and have it forward of the extractor. Therefor, it is behind the extractor, with a space between the case mouth and end of the chamber. If the case fully engaged the chamber, every time, the case head would be spaced away from the breach, every time. This has no relevance to what we are discussing.

If your cases are fully engaging the chamber and the breach, the cases are too long, and out of spec. This has nothing to do with the lede/throat.

If the case head is forward of the extractor, it won't fire. If your pistol fires, the case head is being held, by spring tension, firmly against the breach. If it isn't, your gun is broken, or you've chambered a round other than a 10mm.

Whether or not the extractor was ever designed to do this, isn't relevant. It does it, by design or otherwise.

Any Cal.
09-25-2012, 21:14
I have no dog in this fight, but the time I checked the extractor had .030" slop, which let the case mouth be what set headspace between the min and trim to length.

BruceO
09-26-2012, 16:29
I have no dog in this fight, but the time I checked the extractor had .030" slop, which let the case mouth be what set headspace between the min and trim to length.

I haven't checked this dimension to verify it but development of the "trim to length" has zero to do with the design process which determined the breach face to extractor hook length. dm1906 would argue that the tolerances left in order for the extractor to function properly and for ammunition to feed from the magazine to chamber reliably make the shoulder in the chamber irrelevant. Actually, the shoulder is machined the way it is to limit forward motion of the case during the firing sequence. The extractor was not designed for this purpose. Although a byproduct of it's method of operation and may provide some benefit in this area, the intended mechanics of the operation of the pistol does not include the use of the extractor for this. That being the case the manufacturer never designed the extractor with that in mind. dm1906 would propose that there is no minimum case length specification at all as long as favorable dimensional relationships between the extractor hook, case extractor groove and rim and breach face are maintained. The chamber's shoulder is of no particular significance and could and probably should be deleted as obsolete.

I am not of that particular persuasion and must therefore just agree to disagree.

copo9560
09-26-2012, 17:02
I have tried the experiment and had no issues - maybe I was lucky. Better question is does anyone have any documented proof of a G20 blown up by using 40S&W? I can see beating up the extractor but that is easy enough to change. There appear to be a lot of guys trying this - curious if anyone has really had a bad experience.

BruceO
09-26-2012, 20:27
You also erode the shoulder in the chamber, among other things. The only bad things are not just the possibility of a catastrophic failure although that may be sole concern of some.

http://thegunzone.com/10v40.html

dm1906
09-27-2012, 00:23
You also erode the shoulder in the chamber, among other things. The only bad things are not just the possibility of a catastrophic failure although that may be sole concern of some.

http://thegunzone.com/10v40.html

Erosion is no more likely than with any other cartridge, correct or not. And the article does not refer to Glock pistols. We've repeated, over and over again, this should not be tried in any other brand pistol. I'm NOT trying to convince anyone to try anything they are not absolutely comfortable with, or that may be unsafe. Only trying to dispel myth and rumor regarding THIS situation. The Glock doesn't know the difference, nor does it care. A .40 round won't fire (any more likely than if it were a 10mm round) if it's isn't properly chambered (either would be equally bad). Other pistols, such as those in the article, may. If the Glock does, it was already broken, or modified in such a way this should never be attempted (such as an extended striker, which is a bad mod, in almost any case).

BruceO
09-27-2012, 17:51
Erosion is no more likely than with any other cartridge, correct or not. And the article does not refer to Glock pistols.

Yah, right.

It doesn't mention the Glock by name because it's a general statement.

Anyway...................

Yondering
09-27-2012, 20:29
It's funny how some people will argue against doing this, despite all logical explanations, without having a clue what they're talking about. If you don't understand why this can be done in a Glock but shouldn't be done in other pistols, fine, but quit acting like you're smarter than the rest of us - you aren't. Open your mind and look at the facts, and quit going off old rumors.

Throat and chamber erosion is no different firing 40 vs 10mm - it's practically non-existent with either round; these aren't magnum rifle rounds with large powder volumes and small bores.

Javelin
09-30-2012, 14:10
It's funny how some people will argue against doing this, despite all logical explanations, without having a clue what they're talking about. If you don't understand why this can be done in a Glock but shouldn't be done in other pistols, fine, but quit acting like you're smarter than the rest of us - you aren't. Open your mind and look at the facts, and quit going off old rumors.

Throat and chamber erosion is no different firing 40 vs 10mm - it's practically non-existent with either round; these aren't magnum rifle rounds with large powder volumes and small bores.

Yeah because that extra 3mm of brass on the 10mm casing and barrel chamber is just there for aesthetics anyway......

dm1906
09-30-2012, 15:13
Yah, right.

It doesn't mention the Glock by name because it's a general statement.

Anyway...................

Right. It is/was a general statement, general to the pistols examined, which didn't include Glock. The reasons for the failures they describe are not characteristic of the function of a Glock pistol. I/we do not recommend this practice in pistols other than Glock for the reasons they describe. Please provide a source describing a Glock failure, under these conditions. If it's happened, it's a big secret.

Ebb27
09-30-2012, 15:43
I have tried the experiment and had no issues - maybe I was lucky. Better question is does anyone have any documented proof of a G20 blown up by using 40S&W? I can see beating up the extractor but that is easy enough to change. There appear to be a lot of guys trying this - curious if anyone has really had a bad experience.


Well I know a lot of folks like drama but both rounds are similiar CUP pressure with the 10mm being a bit higher.

So it's not likely you're gonna get some catastrophic failure that causes the pistol to blow-up like a pipe-bomb by using a shorter lower pressure round.


At most you'll damage the extractor, or the round will slip past the extractor and fail to fire.

Spring Hill Glocker
10-01-2012, 11:48
Someone make a YouTube video about this maybe moss pawnshop channel will do a special I do know you can buy caliber inserts for a 12 Gauge and shoot 9mm 22lr 357 out of it safely but I can't comment on the accuracy but if it comes down to you finding assorted ammo and only a shot gun these inserts would be a heaven send in a crisis.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-01-2012, 11:59
Cool thread.

Maybe reason enough to buy a 10mm now :)

vaquero aleman
01-19-2013, 08:42
I'll up your ante,

I have a G21, in which I placed a factory G20 6" barrel, and fired some 40 S&W. I use a Wolff guide rod with #20 spring. I shot Underwood 165gr 40 for a few rounds and then tried some Underwood 135gr 40. I threw away the first three rounds, of the 135gr, because they did not ignite. The pin had obviously punched the primer but did not ignite it. The 165gr fired without incident but the 135gr would not fire and I can only assume it was because the extractor could not hold the case against the breech solidly enough. Therefore, I intend to get a 10 to 40 conversion barrel to use in my G21. And I did perform the "KKM" mod to the extractor.

And, I must add, that there is no "why" only "just because".

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300055-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300091-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300088-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300058-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300056-1.jpg

Slateman
01-19-2013, 14:55
So I can shoot .40S&W, no problem with stock barrel and mags?

vaquero aleman
01-19-2013, 16:04
I loaded the 40 into factory G20 mags, which of course fit in my G21 because the frame is the same as the G20, and other than a little sliding back and forth in the mags, of the cartridges, there appeared to be no problems. Of course these are just my results.

I am in no way warranting the use of 40 S&W in a Glock 20 or 21, it is a personal choice. Do so at your own risk.

And don't tell Gaston about it, they are kinda fussy about those things.

gofastman
01-27-2013, 10:58
Can .40 be shot out of a stock 10mm EAA Witness?

Any Cal.
01-27-2013, 17:50
Look at it and see. You want to be sure that the firing pin can't hit the primer if the case is ahead of the extractor, which would allow the gun to fire out of battery. You also want to be sure that the extractor is heavy enough to take the force of the firing pin strike repeatedly. I have heard of one person who did what you are suggesting, but have no experience at all with that pistol, so could not say whether it is safe or not.

Yondering
01-27-2013, 20:06
Can .40 be shot out of a stock 10mm EAA Witness?

It is not a good idea. Just like a 1911 and most other 10mm pistols, the firing pin is long enough to set off the round, even if it is in front of the extractor. This causes the case to slam back against the breech face, and sometimes results in case bulges and possibly ruptures. You'll also notice a spot where the case rim gets sheared off, as it's forced past the extractor (towards the rear) at high speed.

The Glock is the only gun I know of where this is a safe practice.

I will admit to doing this with my Witness back when I had one, to find out what it would do, and have never seen or heard of damage to a gun or shooter from it, but just judging from the appearance of the brass, I wouldn't do it any more.

In the Witness, when (not if) a round jumps the extractor, you'll see fired brass like this:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0132.jpg

RMM
01-28-2013, 10:09
Just thought I'd stop in and report my experience.

Gun: Gen 3 G20SF (2012), stock barrel, stock recoil assembly.
Ammo: Federal Champion 40 S&W, PMC 200 gr. 10MM.

Was shooting at a ~8" bullseye target at 10 yards. All rounds chambered and fired without any problems. However, the accuracy seems to have suffered significantly. I fired 10 rounds of 10mm, all rounds grouped ~3". I then shot 10 rounds of the 40 S&W, all rounds hit ~4" lower than the 10MM rounds and had an ~8" group. Thinking that I was probably just nervous, I put out a new target and tried again. 10 rounds 10MM, followed by 10 rounds 40 S&W. The results were similar, I didn't see any keyholing but the grouping was definitely low and loose.

Nice to know that the 40 S&W will work in a pinch with the stock barrel, but I'm not going to make a regular practice out of it.

Bren
01-28-2013, 10:28
This. 10mm headspaces on the case mouth, running a 40S&W case in a 10mm chamber means that the extractor is the only thing holding it in.

Yep, it will work until it doesn't. I'm not sure, but I would think it could result in the case head separating and some brass and crap blowing out of every hole, sooner or later.

ScottieG59
01-28-2013, 11:32
It is not difficult to use a conversion barrel. I use a Lone Wolf 10mm-40S&W conversion barrel and the original 10mm mags. :beer:

Grizzz
01-28-2013, 19:25
Sooo your saying i can get a g20 / 10mm conv. to 40s&w & shoot it in my g21 slide ? :wow:I'll up your ante,

I have a G21, in which I placed a factory G20 6" barrel, and fired some 40 S&W. I use a Wolff guide rod with #20 spring. I shot Underwood 165gr 40 for a few rounds and then tried some Underwood 135gr 40. I threw away the first three rounds, of the 135gr, because they did not ignite. The pin had obviously punched the primer but did not ignite it. The 165gr fired without incident but the 135gr would not fire and I can only assume it was because the extractor could not hold the case against the breech solidly enough. Therefore, I intend to get a 10 to 40 conversion barrel to use in my G21. And I did perform the "KKM" mod to the extractor.

And, I must add, that there is no "why" only "just because".

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300055-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300091-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300088-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300058-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300056-1.jpg

vaquero aleman
01-28-2013, 19:48
I don't see why the 10mm to 40 conversion barrel wouldn't work, but I am not an expert or gunsmith. I very well intend to get a conversion barrel for my 21. I would rather have it and not need than the other way around. 40 S&W is easier to find than 10mm for sure. And, in most cases, cheaper. I picked up a 100 round value box of Rem 40 at walmart when everything else was sold out.

Grizzz
01-28-2013, 20:00
The reason i ask is i have a g21 / 10mm storm Lake barrel & i couldn't find a g21 / 40 s&w conv. barrel. I don't think they make one, at least Storm Lake dosen't.

vaquero aleman
01-28-2013, 20:07
The reason i ask is i have a g21 / 10mm storm Lake barrel & i couldn't find a g21 / 40 s&w conv. barrel. I don't think they make one, at least Storm Lake dosen't.

I have to agree, I don't think that a 45 to 40 conversion exists but I will be buying the LWD 10 to 40 conversion when they finally get it in stock. $109 plus shipping is a whole lot cheaper than another gun.

And, I finally got some Underwood 180gr TMJ 10mm and that is what I am now carrying in my 21. I have some questions to be answered about my slide before I continue shooting .460 Rowland. I should be getting about 1425 to 1450 fps from my 6" barrel. Pretty hot!

ScottieG59
01-28-2013, 20:27
I have to agree, I don't think that a 45 to 40 conversion exists but I will be buying the LWD 10 to 40 conversion when they finally get it in stock. $109 plus shipping is a whole lot cheaper than another gun.

And, I finally got some Underwood 180gr TMJ 10mm and that is what I am now carrying in my 21. I have some questions to be answered about my slide before I continue shooting .460 Rowland. I should be getting about 1425 to 1450 fps from my 6" barrel. Pretty hot!

Well, you will need some magazines. The 40S&W, 357 SIG and 9x25 Dillon will feed in a Glock 20 10mm magazine. I would not trust the 21 magazine to be reliable with those calibers.

I also wonder how reliable the extractor would be. The 10mm Glock 20 conversions I see all have the same base diameter. It may work fine like my Glock 27 40S&W-9mm conversion, in which I change the barrel and use 9mm magazines.

vaquero aleman
01-28-2013, 20:37
I got two G20 mags when I bought the 6" barrel. And after I shot the 40 I found that I had to do the "KKM" conversion on my extractor. I shot some 10mm after that and everything was ok, but I haven't had a chance to run any more 40 through it. Also, it's not as positive an ejection as the 45 but the 40 does eject when I cycle some by hand.

But, to get back to the OP's point, I did pick up a value box of Rem 40 S&W JHP that I intend to run through my factory G20 6" barrel. I want to see if the mod to the G21 extractor will fix the ejection problem with the 40 caliber rounds. And I need to see if maybe their might be a problem with the Underwood 135gr primers being a little too hard.

Billy10mm
01-29-2013, 07:50
It is not a good idea. Just like a 1911 and most other 10mm pistols, the firing pin is long enough to set off the round, even if it is in front of the extractor. This causes the case to slam back against the breech face, and sometimes results in case bulges and possibly ruptures. You'll also notice a spot where the case rim gets sheared off, as it's forced past the extractor (towards the rear) at high speed.

The Glock is the only gun I know of where this is a safe practice.

I will admit to doing this with my Witness back when I had one, to find out what it would do, and have never seen or heard of damage to a gun or shooter from it, but just judging from the appearance of the brass, I wouldn't do it any more.

In the Witness, when (not if) a round jumps the extractor, you'll see fired brass like this:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0132.jpg

For the record, I shoot .40 out of my 10mm 1911 frequently.

Yondering
01-29-2013, 20:12
For the record, I shoot .40 out of my 10mm 1911 frequently.

Do you ever look at the fired brass? It would be very surprising if you don't find any that look like my pic above. It really is not a great thing to do on a general basis, except in a Glock.