Best sized .45 ACP self-defese for a carbine [Archive] - Glock Talk

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bunk22
09-18-2012, 15:03
I've done some research and I see that the 230gr does not gain a significant amount of velocity out of a 16" barrel over your standard 5" handgun barrel. I found an article that demonstrated where the lighter loads, the 165 gr specifically, gained 200ft/sec out the barrel but fragmented on impact with the ballistics gel and penetrated just over 5". Is 230gr the way to go? Right now, I have PDX1 230gr bonded hollow point but just checking into other loads. Here is the article:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/6626/pistol-caliber-carbines/

Glockdude1
09-18-2012, 15:15
Vector Arms build a nice .45 Uzi
http://www.kellyenterprises.net/images/stories/virtuemart/product/UZI_45_RIFLE_W___4da857a817474.jpg

http://www.kellyenterprises.net/vector-arms-custom-uzis/results,11-20.html

:cool:

collim1
09-18-2012, 15:35
Any gain in velocity out of a carbine is a plus, but the real advantage is the longer sight radius, better recoil control, and ease of shooting a carbine vs a pistol.

I would carry 230g+P in a .45 carbine.

SCmasterblaster
09-19-2012, 17:09
Any gain in velocity out of a carbine is a plus, but the real advantage is the longer sight radius, better recoil control, and ease of shooting a carbine vs a pistol.

I would carry 230g+P in a .45 carbine.

Great advice!! :cool:

GlockPride
09-19-2012, 17:44
Kriss if you want the ultimate. Nothing else needs to be said.

GWG19
09-19-2012, 20:18
230 grain 45ACP plus the KRISS Super V SBR set up is a whole lot of thump on the target.

bunk22
09-19-2012, 20:44
Already have a .45 carbine, just asking about good self-defense ammo. Good info so far, thank you :supergrin:

Jim S.
09-22-2012, 20:21
Three things are important in a gun fight.
1st - Being able to hit what you are aiming at.
2nd - Penetration. You have to hit a vital organ or a large artery or a major nerve center.
3rd - Size of the hole.

Since we can't carry a carbine for self defense I will assume that you are thinking Home Defense.
Get a shot gun. Best home defense weapon made for normal folks.
If you must have a 45 for home defense I would hope that the carbine is a back up to a hand gun... loaded with good name brand hollow points. Sort of like the PDX1's.
In the carbine I would consider FMJ rounds to make sure you have a lot of penetration since the hand gun was not enough.
A 45 hole is sufficient already and the FMJ will give you the penetration.
The rest would be up to you to hit the bad guy.

bunk22
09-22-2012, 22:39
Three things are important in a gun fight.
1st - Being able to hit what you are aiming at.
2nd - Penetration. You have to hit a vital organ or a large artery or a major nerve center.
3rd - Size of the hole.

Since we can't carry a carbine for self defense I will assume that you are thinking Home Defense.
Get a shot gun. Best home defense weapon made for normal folks.
If you must have a 45 for home defense I would hope that the carbine is a back up to a hand gun... loaded with good name brand hollow points. Sort of like the PDX1's.
In the carbine I would consider FMJ rounds to make sure you have a lot of penetration since the hand gun was not enough.
A 45 hole is sufficient already and the FMJ will give you the penetration.
The rest would be up to you to hit the bad guy.

Lots of information that I didn't ask for but thanks and I'm not trying to be mean. I already have a shot gun for home defense as well as many handguns, any can be used for home defense. My G17 with tactical light sits nearby, as does my shot gun. I would like to use this carbine as hd as well. I ask as the dynamics of a pistol carbine change a bit but I don't think they do as much for the 45 ACP.

Clutch Cargo
09-23-2012, 22:47
Three things are important in a gun fight.
1st - Being able to hit what you are aiming at.
2nd - Penetration. You have to hit a vital organ or a large artery or a major nerve center.
3rd - Size of the hole.

Since we can't carry a carbine for self defense I will assume that you are thinking Home Defense.
Get a shot gun. Best home defense weapon made for normal folks.
If you must have a 45 for home defense I would hope that the carbine is a back up to a hand gun... loaded with good name brand hollow points. Sort of like the PDX1's.
In the carbine I would consider FMJ rounds to make sure you have a lot of penetration since the hand gun was not enough.
A 45 hole is sufficient already and the FMJ will give you the penetration.
The rest would be up to you to hit the bad guy.

I can carry a carbine as well as any law abiding Texan, why can't YOU? :dunno:

avenues165
09-23-2012, 23:44
If you haven't already, you may want to look at the website Ballistics by the Inch. It may help you see the relationship between barrel length increase and bullet velocity increases. You can also pull up the graphs that show energy vs. barrel length.

water_daddy
09-25-2012, 00:23
I'd shoot 230gr 45 Super loads if your carbine is rated for it.

DustyJacket
09-25-2012, 02:50
Check your owners manual.
Does it recommend against +P for a blowback .45 ?

Some don't recommend +P because it will open the action too soon.

cowboy1964
09-25-2012, 05:42
45 FMJ out of a carbine for home defense? I sure wouldn't want to be living next door to that person.

bunk22
09-25-2012, 08:29
Check your owners manual.
Does it recommend against +P for a blowback .45 ?

Some don't recommend +P because it will open the action too soon.

Yeah, it's rated for it. The ballistics by the inch is a good website for sure. The 230gr 45 auto out of 16" barrel doesn't gain much velocity over your standard 5" barrel. Lighter bullets gain about 200ft/s, at least from the sight information.

water_daddy
09-25-2012, 10:58
Yeah, it's rated for it. The ballistics by the inch is a good website for sure. The 230gr 45 auto out of 16" barrel doesn't gain much velocity over your standard 5" barrel. Lighter bullets gain about 200ft/s, at least from the sight information.

I'd recommend looking at several sources with comparable tests & assumptions and then consider the results and their projections. We gun people can be very bias and use loads, conditions, type of rifling, measuring......you name it to come up with very different results.

Logically speaking and oversimplifying a bit, the load with the a greater powder charge and slower burning powders will benefit the most from the longer barrel. A moly coated 230gr 45 Super is about as effective as you can make a 16" and still keep the 45 acp dimension case. You start going too fast with a light soft wide meplate 45 and it quickly turns to a varmit round.

DustyJacket
09-25-2012, 12:25
Yeah, it's rated for it. The ballistics by the inch is a good website for sure. The 230gr 45 auto out of 16" barrel doesn't gain much velocity over your standard 5" barrel. Lighter bullets gain about 200ft/s, at least from the sight information.
I wasn't talking velocity, but chamber pressure.

But, if it is rated go ahead.
I was always patial to 200gr LSWC for target loads, and the old-style Speer 200gr JHC (flying ashtray) for defense

bunk22
09-26-2012, 09:07
I wasn't talking velocity, but chamber pressure.

But, if it is rated go ahead.
I was always patial to 200gr LSWC for target loads, and the old-style Speer 200gr JHC (flying ashtray) for defense

Yes but I was talking about that site, they basically list velocity out of the barrel it seems.

SCmasterblaster
09-26-2012, 09:32
CorBon makes good .45 ammo.

Beware Owner
09-26-2012, 09:50
I'd try coming up with my own loads for it....

Darkangel1846
09-26-2012, 10:28
Nothing wrong with a 230 Gr HP, will do fine out to 100-150 yards.

RWBlue
09-26-2012, 22:39
Distance to target?
What carbine?
Does the ammo in the carbine need to be the ammo used in a handgun? What handgun?
Do you reload?

Get me some answers and maybe I can give you some answers. Everyone else here is just pushing their own favorite load.

alwaysshootin
09-27-2012, 06:03
I've done some research and I see that the 230gr does not gain a significant amount of velocity out of a 16" barrel over your standard 5" handgun barrel. I found an article that demonstrated where the lighter loads, the 165 gr specifically, gained 200ft/sec out the barrel but fragmented on impact with the ballistics gel and penetrated just over 5". Is 230gr the way to go? Right now, I have PDX1 230gr bonded hollow point but just checking into other loads. Here is the article:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/6626/pistol-caliber-carbines/

My chronograph, using 230 hardball, showed a lower velocity out of my Marlin Camp 45, then my 1911, at 10 yards. Didn't do any load experimenting, but I wasn't impressed. Has anyone else compared velocities?

bunk22
09-27-2012, 09:34
Distance to target?
What carbine?
Does the ammo in the carbine need to be the ammo used in a handgun? What handgun?
Do you reload?

Get me some answers and maybe I can give you some answers. Everyone else here is just pushing their own favorite load.

I would say at least out to 50 yards, maybe 100 max. I don't reload and the barrel is 16", a Hi-Point 4595TS.

RWBlue
09-27-2012, 09:39
I would say at least out to 50 yards, maybe 100 max. I don't reload and the barrel is 16", a Hi-Point 4595TS.

Do you need to use the same load for a handgun or can this be a different load?

The Hi-Point 4595TS is straight blow back operated? No locking breach?

SCmasterblaster
09-27-2012, 18:45
The CorBon 185gr JHP load gets 1100 FPS out of a 5-inch M1911A1 pistol, and the muzzle flash is big. The bullet would still be accelerating in an 18-inch barrel. You may even get 1800 or more FPS out of the long barrel. :shocked:

hunter won
10-08-2012, 16:59
For HD the Just Right Carbine .45 ACP Is loaded with hollowpoint ammo. For range 230 grain FMJ. I was told to not use +P because of the blow back operation. Just Right has redesigned newer guns to work better with +P .

SCmasterblaster
10-09-2012, 08:21
For HD the Just Right Carbine .45 ACP Is loaded with hollowpoint ammo. For range 230 grain FMJ. I was told to not use +P because of the blow back operation. Just Right has redesigned newer guns to work better with +P .

I never thought that blow-back operated firearms could be so finicky. :upeyes:

Chuck54
10-09-2012, 15:48
.452



:faint:

SCmasterblaster
10-09-2012, 18:27
.452



:faint:

The bore diameter is .452"? There are a lot of .45 ACP factory loads and bullets at .451. :shocked:

fwm
10-10-2012, 16:39
T
Since we can't carry a carbine for self defense I will assume that you are thinking Home Defense.
Get a shot gun. Best home defense weapon made for normal folks.


Actually, in MO, I can. I occasionally do carry a Kel-Tec RFB in 7.62x51. With a CCW, ALL legal weapons are permitted to be carried concealed.

Before you ask why, let me tell you, I HAVE seen firsthand some of the evils of men, and don't intend to become one of their victims.

fwm
10-10-2012, 16:50
I never thought that blow-back operated firearms could be so finicky. :upeyes:

My understanding was they are. I have done several 'melt' jobs on my carry guns, and researched the subject extensively before putting file to metal.

To operate correctly, the weight of the slide and the return spring(s) are 'tuned' by the designer to work with a particular class of bullet weight and chamber pressure. If either of these are altered by the user, say, by using +P , +P+ or larger or smaller handloads, the gun may now be out of 'tune' and not operate properly.

bunk22
10-10-2012, 18:54
Do you need to use the same load for a handgun or can this be a different load?

The Hi-Point 4595TS is straight blow back operated? No locking breach?

Yep, blow back. It still shoots everything and anything I put through it thus far. For now, I use PDX-1 230gr JHP. I've put 100 rounds of those and another 600+ rounds of various .45 ACP rounds.

RWBlue
10-10-2012, 20:30
Yep, blow back. It still shoots everything and anything I put through it thus far. For now, I use PDX-1 230gr JHP. I've put 100 rounds of those and another 600+ rounds of various .45 ACP rounds.

Since you want to use the same round for both handgun and long gun, I think you are on the right track. Any of the premium 230gr rounds will do.

If it expands at range, great. If it doesn't you will get a through and through.

Up close and personal, the 230gr may over expand, but I have done a good bit of testing and even when the bullet over expands it still does a nice job of penetrating and a 451 hole is not that bad.

SCmasterblaster
10-12-2012, 14:03
My understanding was they are. I have done several 'melt' jobs on my carry guns, and researched the subject extensively before putting file to metal.

To operate correctly, the weight of the slide and the return spring(s) are 'tuned' by the designer to work with a particular class of bullet weight and chamber pressure. If either of these are altered by the user, say, by using +P , +P+ or larger or smaller handloads, the gun may now be out of 'tune' and not operate properly.

I guess that there is a lot to blowback-operated pistols and carbines