Mitt Romney may have blown the election

[Averageman]

Romney's charitable donations were NOT merely tithes to the Mormon Church. He currently supports over a dozen different private charities as per his released tax statements and of the 4 million he donated to charities, only about 1 million was to the LDS. He also reportedly donated an additional 1.6 million or so to the LDS that he never even claimed a deduction for.

Over a dozen different private charities....

[Trew2Life]

I could not care less about Mitt Romney's charitable donations. I did not inject that into this thread. I no more believe Mitt Romney's 2 tax returns than the Right believes in Obama's birth certificate.

[tsmo1066]

I could not care less about Mitt Romney's charitable donations. I did not inject that into this thread. I no more believe Mitt Romney's 2 tax returns than the Right believes in Obama's birth certificate.

And you look about as ridiculous as the "Birther's" by denying reality in such a manner.

Just saying...

[Averageman]

And this from the Left at the New York Post, not exactly known as Republican friendly and by a writer who was set straight on Romney's charity work.
$50 Million in 20 years..

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/romney_the_giver_7nLMOZGuIo2zq1LmrNInjN

[Averageman]

I could not care less about Mitt Romney's charitable donations. I did not inject that into this thread. I no more believe Mitt Romney's 2 tax returns than the Right believes in Obama's birth certificate.
So when set straight about Romeny and his charity work and his tax payments...
You could care less, I'm glad he cares more and gives more. He's a good Man.
But play the race card with than the Right believes in Obama's birth certificate.
Who would have thought a democrat would stoop so low?




Brought to you by the Democratic Party inventor of Jim Crow Laws.

[Trew2Life]

You guys are deluding yourself if you believe that every charity that every millionaire donates to comes out of the kindness of his heart. Charitable donations are used by the wealthy as another means of lowering their tax liability. These 'private organizations' are in the form of fraternal societies. They're donating to their favorite club houses. Let's not be so naive to think it's all going to the March of Dimes.

[Trew2Life]

Not to change the subject ...


But play the race card with than the Right believes in Obama's birth certificate.

I'm glad to see someone step up and call the birther issue a 'race card'. All this time they've been trying to pass it off as 'nationalism',

[Averageman]

You guys are deluding yourself if you believe that every charity that every millionaire donates to comes out of the kindness of his heart. Charitable donations are used by the wealthy as another means of lowering their tax liability. These 'private organizations' are in the form of fraternal societies. They're donating to their favorite club houses. Let's not be so naive to think it's all going to the March of Dimes.
Read the article from the Post.
If he would have paid the Taxes on the 50 million he would have paid 35 cents on the dollar.
As it is he gave away 50 million, had he kept it and paid taxes on it he would have been 30 million or so ahead.
But that darn Mitt gave it away to charity,....
Makes you kinda hate him even more don't it?

[Averageman]

Not to change the subject ...
I'm glad to see someone step up and call the birther issue a 'race card'. All this time they've been trying to pass it off as 'nationalism',
No clearly, YOU played the race card.
By the way the Obama's gave 65K to Rev Wright, you remember the "God D*mn America" guy?
Then when it became politically uncomfortable they dropped him like a hot potatoe.

[.264 magnum]

You guys are deluding yourself if you believe that every charity that every millionaire donates to comes out of the kindness of his heart. Charitable donations are used by the wealthy as another means of lowering their tax liability. These 'private organizations' are in the form of fraternal societies. They're donating to their favorite club houses. Let's not be so naive to think it's all going to the March of Dimes.

Man, I bet you are a blast at dinner parties!

[Trew2Life]

Read the article from the Post.
If he would have paid the Taxes on the 50 million he would have paid 35 cents on the dollar.
As it is he gave away 50 million, had he kept it and paid taxes on it he would have been 30 million or so ahead.
But that darn Mitt gave it away to charity,....
Makes you kinda hate him even more don't it?

And so, interestingly enough, he doesn't claim the full deduction for his charitable donations. Thereby making his tax liabity comply with the 'no less than 13%' proclaimed earlier. Who does that? Who intentionally over-pays their taxes? Didn't he say over-paying his taxes would disqualify him as president?

[Averageman]

Man, I bet you are a blast at dinner parties!
he is a hoot isn't he?
The question then becomes what main course goes well with his Whine?

[tsmo1066]

No clearly, YOU played the race card.
By the way the Obama's gave 65K to Rev Wright, you remember the "God D*mn America" guy?
Then when it became politically uncomfortable they dropped him like a hot potatoe.

Don't forget Wrights frequent rants against Jews, too.

Of course Obama claims that despite attending that church for 20 years, he had no idea what was being preached!

[Averageman]

And so, interestingly enough, he doesn't claim the full deduction for his charitable donations. Thereby making his tax liabity comply with the 'no less than 13%' proclaimed earlier. Who does that? Who intentionally over-pays their taxes? Didn't he say over-paying his taxes would disqualify him as president?
Thats funny because so many from the left are saying they dont pay enough in taxes.
Romney overpays by not taking deductions and you complain, he gives an additional 4 million to charity this year and you say it's a scam.
50 million in 20 years to charity, yep that can only sound like a scam. The tough thing is its all down on paper and you have liberals now saying it's very charitable and noble.
I think your just afraid to pull those Obama stickers off your Subaru and admit your wrong.

[tsmo1066]

And so, interestingly enough, he doesn't claim the full deduction for his charitable donations. Thereby making his tax liabity comply with the 'no less than 13%' proclaimed earlier. Who does that? Who intentionally over-pays their taxes? Didn't he say over-paying his taxes would disqualify him as president?

Who does that? Someone who is giving for the sake of giving and not for private gain.

As for his statement, Romney wasn't talking about faith and charity. He was talking about overpaying taxes due to financial ineptitude.

[Trew2Life]

No clearly, YOU played the race card.
By the way the Obama's gave 65K to Rev Wright, you remember the "God D*mn America" guy?
Then when it became politically uncomfortable they dropped him like a hot potatoe.

No. Clearly I made a comparision of things people disbelieve dispite the evidence to the contrary. Tax Returns / Birth Certificate and how both are considered suspect. Personally, I think it's easier to fake a tax return.

[tsmo1066]

No. Clearly I made a comparision of things people disbelieve dispite the evidence to the contrary. Tax Returns / Birth Certificate and how both are considered suspect. Personally, I think it's easier to fake a tax return.

Really? Price Waterhouse Coopers has issued a sworn affidavit regarding his taxes.

As for Birth Certificates, millions of illegals buy them on the street every year, often for less than $100.

[Trew2Life]

Thats funny because so many from the left are saying they dont pay enough in taxes.
Romney overpays by not taking deductions and you complain, he gives an additional 4 million to charity this year and you say it's a scam.
50 million in 20 years to charity, yep that can only sound like a scam. The tough thing is its all down on paper and you have liberals now saying it's very charitable and noble.
I think your just afraid to pull those Obama stickers off your Subaru and admit your wrong.

What I will admit is your strawman argument has failed. This was/is never about charitable contributions. If you choose to believe that Mitt Romney is a magnanimous philanthropist, go right ahead. Add that to the, 'I don't worry about the 47%' mantra and run with it through election day.

[Trew2Life]

Really? Price Waterhouse Coopers has issued a sworn affidavit regarding his taxes.

Oh. No. Not PWC. Would this be the same PWC that's intwined with the MF Global business scandal?

As for Birth Certificates, millions of illegals buy them on the street every year, often for less than $100.

Yep, and sometimes they're on special; buy one birth certificate get one free. Just pay separate shipping and handling.


Denial :uglylol:

[Bulldog44cal]

He's not lying. Welfare and handouts cost taxpayers millions. Why should working class get taxed to death to support communities that contribute zero to the nation. It's not a secret that the democrats need these dependents to secure votes based on welfare handout rewards. All resources are abused by this 47%, they call the police at the drop of a hat and the decent neighborhoods never see their local police. Ambulance is called for everything and we pick up the bill. Everything is handed to this 47%, the "why work when checks come in the mail" mentality is now the standard. These 47% aren't looking for jobs, why should they when we, the taxpayers, have +30% of our wages appropriated to ensure they never have to lift a finger except to have a drink or commit a crime against the hands that feed them. Worse part is that they're proud of this lifestyle. We the tax payers are the jokes and suckers to the 47%.

[Averageman]

What I will admit is your strawman argument has failed. This was/is never about charitable contributions. If you choose to believe that Mitt Romney is a magnanimous philanthropist, go right ahead. Add that to the, 'I don't worry about the 47%' mantra and run with it through election day.
Yes it is about Character, you misinterpeted Mitt's comments about the 47% in a way that made him sound uncaring to the poor.
I clearly proved you wrong, so them you start in on Mitts contributions to Charity, and you complained these were Tith's to the Morman Church, caught you there, dozens of charities. Then you bring up birth certificates, playing the race card. That didn't work.
Then I posted news articles, some even showing that Romney has dontated 50 Million in 20 years to many different charities.
And I am using a strawman argument?
let me direct you here,.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_proposal
When faced with fact you change the subject and try another tact.
You Sir, not I used the Strawman.

[Flying-Dutchman]

All these Romney this, Romney that threads on a gun forum no less.

There are more liberals here than in real life and I live in a Blue State.

No one I know is wasting their vote going third party.

Usually it does not matter when you vote but sometimes it does.

If McCain had won we would not have Obamacare.

Yep taxes are going up. If you have good health insurance in a few years it will be hit with a 42% tax; goodbye company provided coverage.

A lot of people work only for good health insurance and without that incentive will not work anymore.

A lot of health professionals are retiring if Obama wins. A lot of taxpayers are retiring too. Good luck with the mooching.

[NEOH212]

Ok people, here's a quiz:

What stinks and rhymes with Mitt? :whistling:

[Flying-Dutchman]

Ok people, here's a quiz:

What stinks and rhymes with Mitt? :whistling:
The news media brainwashing - “Obama is GOD, Romney is Mitt”

[engineer151515]

Ok people, here's a quiz:

What stinks and rhymes with Mitt? :whistling:

Really? You're facing 16 TRILLION dollars of debt on your way to 20 TRILLION (which your children and grandchildren will be paying) and this is what you come up with?

How about this quiz. Guess what your US dollar is going to be worth in 4 more years under a Democrat budget-less spending policy? It rhymes with Mitt too.

http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/

[tantrix]

Really? You're facing 16 TRILLION dollars of debt on your way to 20 TRILLION (which your children and grandchildren will be paying) and this is what you come up with?

How about this quiz. Guess what your US dollar is going to be worth in 4 more years under a Democrat budget-less spending policy? It rhymes with Mitt too.

http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/

I got a better quiz. Tell me how (if at all) Mittens is going to improve this debt situation.

[Goaltender66]

And so, interestingly enough, he doesn't claim the full deduction for his charitable donations. Thereby making his tax liabity comply with the 'no less than 13%' proclaimed earlier. Who does that? Who intentionally over-pays their taxes? Didn't he say over-paying his taxes would disqualify him as president?

So let's parse this out. First you dismiss Romney's donations as being motivated only because of the tax deductions gained, then you turn around and dismiss Romney if he doesn't take the full deductions granted by the donations.

Your argument is incoherent.

[Peace Warrior]

Mitt Romney described the 47% in 3 distinct groups:

Those who pay no federal income tax? Yep. That's me. I'm part of the vast majority who have below average earnings; one of the 9 out of 10 who earn less than $50K

People who get federal benefits? Yep. That's me, too. I believe I am entitled to health care and 'you name it'. I've been contributing to health care and 'you name it' for 30+ years.

Likely Obama Voters? Three for 3. Like me, there are many other Obama supporters who may have supported BHO in '08 but may think he's not the man for the job in '12. Well, Mitt Romney proved he's not interested in them either.

47% is a lot of people, about 30 million voters. A small percentage of them receive food stamps (about 16%). An even smaller number of them (about 2%) are actual fraud or abuse.

Mitt Romney choose to denegrate 29.4 Million people for the actions of 600 thousand.
47% of the USA's population is roughly 147,792,068.7 people, give or take a few thousand either way.

By the way, romney was spot on correct as pretty much 147,792,068.7 people actually do receive some kind of governmental financial assistance. Seems unbelievable huh? Yeah, but it is true. Go look for yourself and stop depending on the hype of the news media and political whores that insist the left or right is so much better than the other side.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am registered to certain party affiliation due to living in Florida, but I do not vote party lines.

(ETA: Some economists and accountants total the percentage receiving assistance as closer to 49%.)

[sheriff733]

I got a better quiz. Tell me how (if at all) Mittens is going to improve this debt situation.

How will Obama improve it?

[.264 magnum]

I got a better quiz. Tell me how (if at all) Mittens is going to improve this debt situation.

1.) Rolling back some of the Obama Regime's first term regulation blizzard.

2.) Internalizing as much of our BTU load as possible - this move would likely create several hundred thousand direct and indirect job - jobs with great pay as well.

3.) Tax credits and deductions to small business would help with UE and quickly as well.

[vtducrider]

Social Security benefits are not the same as Welfare benefits. I didn't take the 47% to mean people like you. But that maybe where the problem is for Mitt - the media wants people like you to think you are part of that 47%.

Trew2life, I recant my statement. You are one of the 47% that Romney said he did not need focus his campaign on. You will vote for Obama no matter what.

[devildog66]

Never had a chance to begin with. That is, unless there is some secret video of the President with farm animals that has not yet surfaced...:wow:

[mj9mm]

i know several families who somewhat fit that statement and they know and also understand what he meant. they agree and are voting for him because they want their lives to get better and that won't happen under the current Democrat way of thinking:wavey:

[JDennis]

I can see it both ways. It is worse than others in some states/area's.... I know when I go to my local gas station and a mom pulls out the obama card and buys her kids a bunch of candy, soda, ect while having perfect nails, hair and a real coach purse.... Something is wrong....

And agreed tax issues need to change, but where to give and take? I am single, don't own my own home and have no children. I pay over 40% in taxes, I might as well work at wally world and bring home a little less than I do now because I won't be making too much money and drop tax brackets. I don't mind paying a little more in taxes if there are policies that will make sure the money I am giving to other people is for truly their benefit. People that can't truly work, viably need help and are banned from feeding their kids full of junk food on my dime.

All in all I don't think Mitt hurt himself buy saying what he did. Why concentrate on the groups that would never vote for him anyway?

[Trew2Life]

Yes, Averageman. You win the imaginary point you drew by inserting Mitt Romney's charitable donations into the conversation. Which appeared, first, in post#238.

Did you know ... donations to political action groups are tax deductable? So are membership fees and donations to your favorite sports club.

I'm not hating on any of that, but I wouldn't use them as a test of a mans' true character. It doesn't change the fact that Mitt Romney doesn't worry about me if I fall within the 47% margin. Point Blank.

[series1811]

Trew2life, I recant my statement. You are one of the 47% that Romney said he did not need focus his campaign on. You will vote for Obama no matter what.

And, Romney was right. There is a certain percentage of voters (and it is growing larger all of the time) that see government as the answer to all of their problems.

Romney is not their man, and the Republicans are not their party, and they know it.

[Trew2Life]

Don't forget Wrights frequent rants against Jews, too.

Of course Obama claims that despite attending that church for 20 years, he had no idea what was being preached!

Awww ... and too bad Romney can't use any of this to his advantage. Seeing how the Mormon church had been discriminating against African American until 1978. And let's not talk about the polygamy issue.

[Averageman]

Yes, Averageman. You win the imaginary point you drew by inserting Mitt Romney's charitable donations into the conversation. Which appeared, first, in post#238.

Did you know ... donations to political action groups are tax deductable? So are membership fees and donations to your favorite sports club.

I'm not hating on any of that, but I wouldn't use them as a test of a mans' true character. It doesn't change the fact that Mitt Romney doesn't worry about me if I fall within the 47% margin. Point Blank.
The irony is, I am sure he probobly does care what happens to you, he is a good Christian.
I am also pretty sure Mitt would rather see you successful and getting out of the "under 50K" a year and maybe work your way through hard work in to the 1%.
You see then you too could give to the sick and to the poor and recieve what must be a heck of a good feeling when Mitt writes that check and helps the sick and the poor.
It's too bad that more people haven't seen the light like you now have.

[Averageman]

Awww ... and too bad Romney can't use any of this to his advantage. Seeing how the Mormon church had been discriminating against African American until 1978. And let's not talk about the polygamy issue.
How did they discriminate against Blacks until 1978?
How and why was polygamy necassary for the LDS Church at the time?
Just curious as to your opinion.

[Trew2Life]

How did they discriminate against Blacks until 1978?
How and why was polygamy necassary for the LDS Church at the time?
Just curious as to your opinion.

Research something other than the Crossroads GPS newsletter. You'd learn a thing or two.

[Averageman]

Research something other than the Crossroads GPS newsletter. You'd learn a thing or two.
I have, care to Man up and make a statement?
Come on and make a charge and let me answer it.
Lets not let you go down the strawman road again, let me help you from making that mistake again.
Calm down and do some research first.

[Averageman]

Come on and I will help you, lets see what you have.

[Averageman]

Silly Rabbit, liberal tricks are for kids!


You know I'm gonna make you work for it and them I am going to prove you wrong,...Again!

But God Bless you, I hope you grow to see the light !

[Trew2Life]

Come back when you have something relevant and/or interesting to add. I'm calling the election 11/6/12 @ 11:17 PM with BHO winning enough EV's to secure re-election. I'm going to love Mitt's concession speech.

[tsmo1066]

Did you know ... donations to political action groups are tax deductable? So are membership fees and donations to your favorite sports club.


Your point? Romney's donations are to private charities, not merely "tax deductible entities". His returns are specific on this, as is the PWC affidavit regarding his past two decades of returns.

Why is it so hard for you to simply acknowledge the fact that Romney does, in fact, give a great deal of his private wealth to charity? When you continuously deny obvious facts by insisting against all reason, evidence and linked information that the truth isn't the truth, all you do is ravage your own credibility.

It's like adamantly insisting that Obama isn't a good, caring father to his children in spite of massive evidence to the contrary. Such antics only make one look like a partisan hack.

[Trew2Life]

Your point? Romney's donations are to private charities, not merely "tax deductible entities". His returns are specific on this, as is the PWC affidavit regarding his past two decades of returns.

Why is it so hard for you to simply acknowledge the fact that Romney does, in fact, give a great deal of his private wealth to charity? When you continuously deny obvious facts by insisting against all reason, evidence and linked information that the truth isn't the truth, all you do is ravage your own credibility.

It's like adamantly insisting that Obama isn't a good, caring father to his children in spite of massive evidence to the contrary. Such antics only make one look like a partisan hack.

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. Charitable donations are a wonderful thing. Churches do wonderful community services. I personally wouldn't measure a mans character based on the charitable donations reported on his tax returns. If you choose to do so that's your choice.

[tsmo1066]

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. Charitable donations are a wonderful thing. Churches do wonderful community services. I personally wouldn't measure a mans character based on the charitable donations reported on his tax returns. If you choose to do so that's your choice.

You made yourself clear by throwing out irrelevant mud about contributions to "sports clubs" and repeatedly trying to claim (hinting at it yet again in the very post I am quoting) that Romney just donates money to the Mormon Church.

The fact that you keep running back to such claims, smears and implications in spite of being shown again and again and again by multiple sources that they simply aren't true doesn't exactly do your credibility any good.

Just sayin'.

[Trew2Life]

You made yourself clear by throwing out irrelevant mud about contributions to "sports clubs" and repeatedly trying to claim (hinting at it yet again in the very post I am quoting) that Romney just donates money to the Mormon Church.

The fact that you keep running back to such claims, smears and implications in spite of being shown again and again and again by multiple sources that they simply aren't true doesn't exactly do your credibility any good.

Just sayin'.

If you consider an inherent skepticism of the American Tax code as 'smears and implications', then that's your perogative.

You apparently have a reading comprehension disorder. Can you show post# and/or quote where I said that "Romney just donates money to the Mormon Church".

After that fail, you should realize it's your credibility that is in question.

[tsmo1066]

If you consider an inherent skepticism of the American Tax code as 'smears and implications', then that's your perogative.

You apparently have a reading comprehension disorder. Can you show post# and/or quote where I said that "Romney just donates money to the Mormon Church".

After that fail, you should realize it's your credibility that is in question.

So it wasn't you who said the following regarding Romney?

"Nothing is wrong with tithes. Churches do great community services. But those charitable donations as tax deductions don't impress me. That's your 'sin tax'."

Also note that you made that comment several posts after I pointed out that Romney did not merely tithe, but was giving to numerous private charities.

I suppose next you will be trying to argue that your snipe about "sports club" donations was just an irrelevant sidebar that had nothing to do with the thread at all, rather than an attempt at muddying the water and implying that Romney's tens of millions in charitable donations are just gifts to his favorite recreational sporting establishments.

Sorry, but the only "fail" here is yours, and your credibility is suffering for it. :whistling:

[BSA70]

Romney is way behind in the polls in the buckeye state-Ohio. Can he win without Ohio. I have read that is the key to the election.......

[Bren]

Trew2life, I recant my statement. You are one of the 47% that Romney said he did not need focus his campaign on. You will vote for Obama no matter what.

That does appear to be the case - I also posted a while back, under the assumption that he was not one of the 47% voting for the guy who will give them the best handouts. I was wrong.

[Bren]

Your point? Romney's donations are to private charities, not merely "tax deductible entities". His returns are specific on this, as is the PWC affidavit regarding his past two decades of returns.

Why is it so hard for you to simply acknowledge the fact that Romney does, in fact, give a great deal of his private wealth to charity?

I don't know that he disbelieves it, but, as he has posted, every penny the wealthy give to charities is tax deductible, so it doesn't go to welfare recipients. Those living off the government handouts look at charitable giving as stealing from their entitlements.

[DanaT]

It doesn't change the fact that Mitt Romney doesn't worry about me if I fall within the 47% margin. Point Blank.

I would ask these simple questions.

Why are you in that 47%?

What are you doing to get out of that 47%

What limits you to being in that 47%? Are you not capable of better?

If you are capable of better, then it is laziness that prevents you from doing better?

[Trew2Life]

Unless '42%' is Right wing code for, "We don't mean you. We mean the other guy", I fall into one or more of the demographic models of people described.

'Those who pay no federal income tax'
That's me. Even though I've worked and paid federal taxes for 30+ years I have never owed the federal government taxes. Not surprising, 9 out of 10 Americans are just like me. People who earn a good living (but still below 50K p/yr). Am I supposed to feel guilty about not owing a federal tax?

People who get federal benefits? That's me, too (or hope to soon be). I've been paying into social security and medicare. At the end of the day, I do believe I am entitled to health care and "you name it".

Other than that, I don't get entitlements. Everything I own and consume is bought and paid for and I would bet my life that I am living just as good (if not better) than many of you. But it still wouldn't be good enough earn Mitts 'worry'.

[eb07]

I do believe I am entitled

Problem #1 in this country no matter what your political views.

[Trew2Life]

Problem #1 in this country no matter what your political views.

Damn skippy. After I paid 30+ years into the system.

[Trew2Life]

Looks like more of the "47%" is rejecting Romney. He's losing points in key states: OH, FL, and PA. If his goal was to attract the 5-10 percent in the middle, his message of 47% was too broad. If he actually meant to disparge the 600K or so who are actually cheating and abusing the system, that number is much lower than 47. More like 2. I wouldn't be surprised to hear this issue raised as question no.1 at the first debate.

[BSA70]

Ohio must be in the 47% Looks like Romney is going to loose OH. Rush said today that if the polls are right, the election is over:crying:

[Mayhem like Me]

I could not care less about Mitt Romney's charitable donations. I did not inject that into this thread. I no more believe Mitt Romney's 2 tax returns than the Right believes in Obama's birth certificate.

Soo you thinks it's more plausible that a man running for president would somehow lie on his taxes, knowing that every CPA in America will be going over them with a fine toothed comb to find any mistake.

You are not thinking. Work the problem and you will find the answer.

We cannot sustain this level of freeloading.

[Trew2Life]

Soo you thinks it's more plausible that a man running for president would somehow lie on his taxes, knowing that every CPA in America will be going over them with a fine toothed comb to find any mistake.

I wouldn't exactly term it as, 'lying'. That's the beauty of our tax code. It can be so easily manipulated by the wealthy. They can basically pick a tax rate that they want to pay and work out the tax code around it. Are you familiar with Mitt Romney's involvement with the 'Son of Boss' tax evasion? Plus, Mitt so graciously pays more tax in 2011 than he legally owes? Who really does that? So, no ... I am not surprised he hasn't released more tax returns for review.

You are not thinking. Work the problem and you will find the answer.

If Mitt Romney is the answer, the question must be stupid.

We cannot sustain this level of freeloading.

Of all the things that weigh heavy on our national debt, who's got compassion for the 30% of seniors and 18% of children that get SNAP? SMH

[sheriff733]

Ohio must be in the 47% Looks like Romney is going to loose OH. Rush said today that if the polls are right, the election is over:crying:

Ehh...don't get too down on yourself. It ain't over til it's over. Lets wait and call it in November.

:wavey:


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[Goaltender66]

Damn skippy. After I paid 30+ years into the system.

You keep proving Romney correct with every post you make in this thread.

[series1811]

Looks like more of the "47%" is rejecting Romney. He's losing points in key states: OH, FL, and PA. If his goal was to attract the 5-10 percent in the middle, his message of 47% was too broad. If he actually meant to disparge the 600K or so who are actually cheating and abusing the system, that number is much lower than 47. More like 2. I wouldn't be surprised to hear this issue raised as question no.1 at the first debate.

The people who are working and paying taxes know who he is talking about. That's the crowd I hang out with, and I haven't heard one single person who didn't like what Romney said.

My former step-daughter, with her illegitimate kids, her refusal to work, and her insistence on getting lifetime food stamps, medical care, and free cigarettes, would probably be highly offended.

[sheriff733]

The people who are working and paying taxes know who he is talking about. That's the crowd I hang out with, and I haven't heard one single person who didn't like what Romney said.

My former step-daughter, with her illegitimate kids, her refusal to work, and her insistence on getting lifetime food stamps, medical care, and free cigarettes, would probably be highly offended.

People tend to be offended when you tell the truth about them.

[Bilbo Bagins]

Damn skippy. After I paid 30+ years into the system.

Fine, at 65, everyone gets a lump sum check that is the amount of what they paid into the system. We do that now and that would solve the Social Security Crisis.

Trust me, what you put into it would not last you a year. What you put into the system is nothing compared to what you get out of it.

[kensb2]

Fine, at 65, everyone gets a lump sum check that is the amount of what they paid into the system. We do that now and that would solve the Social Security Crisis.

Trust me, what you put into it would not last you a year. What you put into the system is nothing compared to what you get out of it.

I like this idea, quite a bit. It will force people to at least try to build their own retirement, or ensure they have people they can depend on if they are in need (ie family, friends. Not Joe Taxpayer).

[billn]

SS is the poor and middle class man's retirement and disability account. If you become disable you can draw. If you die your wife and kids might be able to draw a monthly check to survive.

[kensb2]

SS is the poor and middle class man's retirement and disability account. If you become disable you can draw. If you die your wife and kids might be able to draw a monthly check to survive.

This would be assuming that the person in this senario doesn't have any life insurance, any type of 401K or stock portfolio, and that the wife has none of the above as well? Due to all those things, eveyone else must be forced to pitch in and help?!

[billn]

The problem with SS and Medicare is politicians can not stop using the funds for other stuff. Like Obama grab 700 bn medicare to fund Obamacare.

Obamacare is not affordable. He will have to rob funds again and again.

[billn]

It does not matter how many $ are in SS and Medicare. Politicians will use the funds to buy votes with. The more in the accounts the more they find to spend.

[kensb2]

It does not matter how many $ are in SS and Medicare. Politicians will use the funds to buy votes with. The more in the accounts the more they find to spend.

Unfortunately, I think most here would have to agree with you on that point!

[WarCry]

Ann Coulter appears to be getting on the "Bad Press Express" (presuming this is accurate and not an internet creation, which is always a possibility):

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550856_429414710427547_1159378836_n.jpg



Edited to add, I just pulled up her Twitter page and it's still showing there, so I guess it's not just made up....

[DanaT]

Of all the things that weigh heavy on our national debt, who's got compassion for the 30% of seniors and 18% of children that get SNAP? SMH

I have figured out how to get the govt to by me a Carrera 4S on your dime. It all starts with being indigent and disabled. Then the govt just gives you money. They key here is earn all your money off shore and have no income in the USA. Then just use off shore ATM cards with small withdrawals. When gman shows up for the large purchases you show him bank statements where the cash came from and they gave it to you. Then just claim to eat ramen noodles.

But trew, thanks for buying me a car....


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[Trew2Life]

You keep proving Romney correct with every post you make in this thread.

And yet Romney's falling poll #'s in key swing states keep proving me right.

The people who are working and paying taxes know who he is talking about. That's the crowd I hang out with, and I haven't heard one single person who didn't like what Romney said.

My former step-daughter, with her illegitimate kids, her refusal to work, and her insistence on getting lifetime food stamps, medical care, and free cigarettes, would probably be highly offended.

Just because a group of people who you know all have the same idea doesn't make it a good idea. I work. I pay taxes and I know who Mitts talking about too and I don't like it.

With all due respects, it's people like your former step-daughter to whom Romney was referring, but there aren't 47% of 'her-kind' in the voting poll. Not even in the die-hard Obama voting poll. That's the problem. Romney was describing a very small percentage of people, but painted such a wide and indistinguishable picture of 47%. It should be more like 2. He pissed off a lot of hard working Americans and the polls reflect it.

Fine, at 65, everyone gets a lump sum check that is the amount of what they paid into the system. We do that now and that would solve the Social Security Crisis.

Trust me, what you put into it would not last you a year. What you put into the system is nothing compared to what you get out of it.

The feds have no business being in the individual retirement planning business in the first place (unless you're a government employee). Other than that, it shouldn't be the governments concern to provide for individual retirement.

That said .. I have paid into the system for 30+ years and mamma ain't raised no fool. Either pay me my money or give me my benefits. I'm supposed to feel guilty about that??

[SouthpawG26]

Ooh Mittens, just when things couldn't get any worse, what on earth have you done now, or rather, a long time ago:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/09/daniel-zimmerman/incendiary-image-of-the-day-opposition-research-edition/

[DanaT]

Either pay me my money or give me my benefits. I'm supposed to feel guilty about that??

I spent your money on a car. The really good thing is if you buy it lichtenstien, you can drive one year without taxes as long as you export it. After 6 months is it considered in taxable personal property and can be imported into the USA without duty. You have one year to license an out of country car in the USA and don't have to pay taxes.


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[Trew2Life]

I have figured out how to get the govt to by me a Carrera 4S on your dime. It all starts with being indigent and disabled. Then the govt just gives you money. They key here is earn all your money off shore and have no income in the USA. Then just use off shore ATM cards with small withdrawals. When gman shows up for the large purchases you show him bank statements where the cash came from and they gave it to you. Then just claim to eat ramen noodles.

But trew, thanks for buying me a car....


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If being a liar/cheater and all around social misfit makes you feel good about yourself, then I suppose 'you're welcome' is in order. The truely sad part about it is, our tax code supports this kind of activity and the wealthy use it daily to lower their federal tax liability. What did you think Swiss, Cayman and other off-shore accounts do?

[DanaT]

If being a liar/cheater and all around social misfit makes you feel good about yourself, then I suppose 'you're welcome' is in order. The truely sad part about it is, our tax code supports this kind of activity and the wealthy use it daily to lower their federal tax liability. What did you think Swiss, Cayman and other off-shore accounts do?

Everything I do is legal.

I do have a meeting that I must go to Switzerland for tomorrow. Should only take a half hour in Switzerland


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[Trew2Life]

I spent your money on a car. The really good thing is if you buy it lichtenstien, you can drive one year without taxes as long as you export it. After 6 months is it considered in taxable personal property and can be imported into the USA without duty. You have one year to license an out of country car in the USA and don't have to pay taxes.

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Be mindful of Karma! The universe has a twisted sense of irony. When you can't purchase that extended magazine because it's been banned at least you'll look good in your new car.

[Goaltender66]

And yet Romney's falling poll #'s in key swing states keep proving me right.

:rofl:

You mean those polls with +9 D samples that over sample women?

The only thing they prove is that you believe what you believe because you only see what you want to see.

Fact is, you believe you are entitled to something and you are not receptive to any message that says otherwise. And your continued citation of paying into "the system" is a cruel joke. The fact is, "the system" is broke, driven into the red by politicians willing to buy the votes of people like you.

:upeyes:

[Bren]

Be mindful of Karma! The universe has a twisted sense of irony. When you can't purchase that extended magazine because it's been banned at least you'll look good in your new car.

Are you trying to string together enough irony to make my head explode? Very close that time.:rofl:

[Trew2Life]

:rofl:

You mean those polls with +9 D samples that over sample women?

The only thing they prove is that you believe what you believe because you only see what you want to see.

Fact is, you believe you are entitled to something and you are not receptive to any message that says otherwise. And your continued citation of paying into "the system" is a cruel joke. The fact is, "the system" is broke, driven into the red by politicians willing to buy the votes of people like you.

:upeyes:

It's funny how the polling becomes suspect when the numbers show your candidate in trouble. If you don't believe the numbers then please, please encourage your candidate to continue speaking unfavorablly of the 47%. Urge him to make it an issue in the upcoming debates.

You have no idea as to what message I may or may not be receptive to. Only that I am unreceptive to being labled a 'victim' by a politician who has been on both sides of each of his own major issues of the past 20 years.

Now, if you're willing to notice that the system is broken and driven into the red by politicians, then why make the poor and needy suffer for the crimes of the rich and corrupt? Support for the poor and needy needs to be 'fixed'. Not eradicated.

[Goaltender66]

It's funny how the polling becomes suspect when the numbers show your candidate in trouble. If you don't believe the numbers then please, please encourage your candidate to continue speaking unfavorablly of the 47%. Urge him to make it an issue in the upcoming debates.

You have no idea as to what message I may or may not be receptive to. Only that I am unreceptive to being labled a 'victim' by a politician who has been on both sides of each of his own major issues of the past 20 years.

Now, if you're willing to notice that the system is broken and driven into the red by politicians, then why make the poor and needy suffer for the crimes of the rich and corrupt? Support for the poor and needy needs to be 'fixed'. Not eradicated.
The polling is suspect. But hey, I'm country. Please make the case for a Dem turnout several points higher than the historic outlier that was 2008, taking into account the worse (and worsening) economy, the Middle East on fire, Iran one step away from nukes, and a President who can't put two words together without a TelePrompTer, two speechwriters, and a podium.

As for the rest, since the votes of the "needy" were purchased, I really don't place a lot of stock in an argument worrying about their "suffering." Sorry, but if you were really concerned about the needy you'd be in favor of economic opportunity for them, not a monthly check from the government that keeps them dependent.

No, I fear I'm all too aware of what message you're receptive to, and it is not a message that says your entitlement mentality is unsustainable.

[Trew2Life]

The polling is suspect. But hey, I'm country. Please make the case for a Dem turnout several points higher than the historic outlier that was 2008,

Could it be that 2008 saw the largest voter turnout in U.S. history and each month - since then - over 50,000 youths turn 18 and become eligible voters (2.4 million since 2008)

So what's your theory? Suddenly all the established pollsters are liberals?

taking into account the worse (and worsening) economy,

Where you see worsening economy, (for which I blame GWB) I see economic stability and opportunity. I got a job. How about you? Nobody want's to talk about the trillions of debt GWB put on the books ... let's just kill the social programs.

the Middle East on fire, when hasn't it been!!! Their beef is biblical.

Iran one step away from nukes, They've been 1 step away since the 80's. But on a deeper level ... are you ready to go to war with Iran? Whose going to pay for that?

and a President who can't put two words together without a TelePrompTer, two speechwriters, and a podium.

Now you just sound like Glen Beck ... ridiculous.

As for the rest, since the votes of the "needy" were purchased, I really don't place a lot of stock in an argument worrying about their "suffering." Sorry, but if you were really concerned about the needy you'd be in favor of economic opportunity for them, not a monthly check from the government that keeps them dependent.

No, I fear I'm all too aware of what message you're receptive to, and it is not a message that says your entitlement mentality is unsustainable.

That's because compromise has been lost in politics. (Thank you Tea Party) It's either "your way" or "my way" and never the twain shall meet.

I would never suggest that able bodied people should be able to benefit from never-ending entitlements. I would never suggest that as a nation we turn our backs on those less fortunate than ourselves. Somewhere in between there is a happy medium.

Mitt Romney does not represent that 'happy medium' for me. He's not the anti-Obama. He's simply the non-Obama. I do not favor trickle down economics; been there/done that. No fun for the middle class.

[Goaltender66]

I'm not dissecting all of that code to respond, especially when the "arguments" are anything but. Reformat into accepted forum protocol and I will.

[Trew2Life]

I'm not dissecting all of that code to respond, especially when the "arguments" are anything but. Reformat into accepted forum protocol and I will.

WTF is 'accepted forum protocol'?

Where you see inflated poll numbers, I see the rebound of 2008 which saw the largest voter turnout in U.S. history and each month - since then - over 50,000 youths turn 18 and become eligible voters (2.4 million since 2008)
So what's your theory? Suddenly all the established pollsters are liberals?

Where you see worsening economy, (for which I blame GWB) I see economic stability and opportunity. I got a job. How about you? Nobody want's to talk about the trillions of debt GWB put on the books ... let's just kill the social programs.

The problems in the middle east are biblical. When has it NOT been on fire and are you saying you're ready to go to war with Iran? Who's going to pay for that?

I would never suggest that able bodied people should be able to benefit from never-ending entitlements. I would never suggest that as a nation we turn our backs on those less fortunate than ourselves. Somewhere in between there is a happy medium.

Mitt Romney does not represent that 'happy medium' for me. He's not the anti-Obama. He's simply the non-Obama. I do not favor trickle down economics; been there/done that. No fun for the middle class.

[DanaT]

Be mindful of Karma! The universe has a twisted sense of irony. When you can't purchase that extended magazine because it's been banned at least you'll look good in your new car.

Oh. So now you are trying to judge me on HOW I am able to legally avoid taxes and get govt assistance to buy items that I need.

I think judgmental jerks will be on the receiving end of karma if it existed.

Simply put, you have no right to judge me. I need govt assistance and it is my right not to pay taxes if I am on govt assistance. You should not be judging what I spend the assistance on that is my business.

Now, good day sir. I need to get showered up. I have to go to Switzerland to "pick up some relatives" if you know what I mean.

You know what agitates me though. I have a rental car (you know if you have too nice of a car across the boarder the german custom get suspicious about why you were in switzerland and tend to then stop you) and make some of these trip occasionally. Every time I have a different car, i must pay for a 1 year highway tax sticker. I have found Bo way to avoid this. At the boarder the Swiss do not let a car in without the sticker (vignette) They stop you and make you buy the 40chf sticker. This is I think my 5th one this year. I hate getting screwed with these road taxes.

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[DanaT]

I would never suggest that able bodied people should be able to benefit from never-ending entitlements. I would never suggest that as a nation we turn our backs on those less fortunate than ourselves. Somewhere in between there is a happy medium.

class.

Yes you did.

You said you live better than me in this thread and then said I should be mindful of karma. You don't seem to have any compassion for my situation.

I am glad that you are paying taxes for me since I am less fortunate and you live better than me.

But, I may have to fire a worker or two if obama is re-elected to ensure that the business makes enough money. A $50k worker ends up costing about $75-80k net. If I fire two, I can give myself a bonus with money I save. Then I just tell the other workers to pick up the slack or they will be joining in the unemployment line. A little fear of being fired makes them work harder.


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[Diesel McBadass]

i love how polls back romney almost across the board, everybody thinks that people have o pay at least some in. Guss eveyones tired of working hard to help along those who wont help themselves.

[Goaltender66]

WTF is 'accepted forum protocol'?

Like this...you know, where you separately quote each point you're addressing instead of embedding your comments within the quote tags. It's only courteous.

Where you see inflated poll numbers, I see the rebound of 2008 which saw the largest voter turnout in U.S. history and each month - since then - over 50,000 youths turn 18 and become eligible voters (2.4 million since 2008)
So what's your theory? Suddenly all the established pollsters are liberals?
OK, I'm trying but....

:rofl:

First, the crosstabs of those polls don't support your theory because they aren't increasing their samples of young people. Second, you are forgetting about people on the other end of the spectrum who, well, die each month. Although, since we're talking about Democrats, I suppose it's a valid point to keep counting dead people as long as they are sampled as D.

ETA: Also, young people don't tend to vote in droves, so now you have to make the case as to why they will in 2012, contra to recent history. Sure, they may have voted Obama in 2008 because it was cool, but four more years of living in their parent's houses because they can't find a job with their expensive degree tends to dampen voter enthusiasm.


And even better...third, D turnout in 2008 was higher than the midterms in 2010, which was billed as a referendum on Obama's performance. Granted, midterm turnout is a somewhat different animal, but then you have to explain 2012 polling which shows voter ID favoring the GOP over the Democrats.

And hey, let's take OH shall we? Quinnipiac used a +9 D sample for 2012, via a D 35 R 26 I 35. In 2008 the actual turnout was D 39, R 31, I 30. That means Quinnipiac futzed with the poll, increased D turnout, is telling you Rs won't turn out at all (in other words, they turned out for McCain but won't for Romney?!) and Is increased. That flies in the face of voter ID polling (and 2010 turnout...if you're going to say that midterms have lower turnout than Presidentials, you'd have a point, but then it means since R turnout was elevated in 2010 it would be even higher in 2012.....).

Again, you are seeing what you want to see. Dig into the crosstabs and they actually refute your theory.

So my explanation...Quinnipiac is futzing with the poll sample to try and create a story. And there's no "suddenly" about it. Look at historical polling and you see the same old story of oversampling Ds.

Where you see worsening economy, (for which I blame GWB) I see economic stability and opportunity. I got a job. How about you? Nobody want's to talk about the trillions of debt GWB put on the books ... let's just kill the social programs.
Still blaming Bush? Really?!

Hint...the inflection point for the 2008 recession was in December 2008. That means things were starting to reverse before Obama took office. In other words, Obama strangled a potential recovery in the crib and is making things worse than they would have been had he done nothing.


The problems in the middle east are biblical. When has it NOT been on fire and are you saying you're ready to go to war with Iran? Who's going to pay for that?

So now the talking point is that Obama can't do anything about the Middle East? That wasn't his position in 2008.

I would never suggest that able bodied people should be able to benefit from never-ending entitlements. I would never suggest that as a nation we turn our backs on those less fortunate than ourselves. Somewhere in between there is a happy medium.
And Romney is advocating a middle position. Thing is, you're not willing to see it.

Mitt Romney does not represent that 'happy medium' for me. He's not the anti-Obama. He's simply the non-Obama. I do not favor trickle down economics; been there/done that. No fun for the middle class.
So-called trickle-down created the recovery in 1982 and resulted in the largest peacetime expansion of our economy in history. What *doesn't* work is sending people checks in perpetuity.

[JMag]

Most, if not all, of the conservatives saying he has "blown it" are what we call RINOs. RINOs are on the endangered political species list at last check.

[Peace Warrior]

Great googley moogley, this thread is still going.

No need to banter or bicker back and forth, just look at the playbook folks (i.e., follow the money... :whistling: ).

It's barry soetoro as dictator until 2016. In late 2014, or in 2015, the bottom blows out of our economy and we have economic collapse. Those who own America's as well as Americans' debt come in and literally, without trying to hide it as they do now, begin to parse out the American homeland. We may have a choice to go the way of Iceland, or Greece, and 47% is not the majority the last time I looked (e.g., I'm an eternal optimist.).

Shortly thereafter, a lot of men and women who like to tickle itching ears are fully exposed for what they really are with no way and no where to hide themselves. A few of these will honestly repent, but most will allow their bellies to be their god, instead of the Creator, and they will line up with the new world order's global religion.

Soon thereafter the false messiah will proclaim his authority and be backed by a lot of aforementioned ear ticklers as well as the usual globalists. Then, the recognized global entity (e.g., Right now it is referred to as the united nations) at that time will ask the false messiah to solve all the problems, conflicts, and divisions caused by race, religion, and finances. With the help of the mass media, the majority of the world's population will be hoodwinked into giving their allegiance to the false messiah for the promise of peace and prosperity. (NOTE: Some of these ear ticklers already have given themselves over the world's (i.e. s*t*n's) creature comforts instead of the Gospel from the Holy Bible, but this is from my individual set of Biblically based beliefs so I won't bore the forum by elaborating on it.)

However, not all will turn out to be sheeple. Men and women, who understand that the answer to America's problems in 2012 is the spirit of 1776 will doggedly pursue their patriotic calling. Of these, the true believers in the religions will suffer the worst. These believers will be pointed out and misrepresented as a wicked vanguard against global peace and prosperity. It will become a crime to utter the Name of Jesus Christ. A lot of the believers will be forced underground for an appointed time, but most of those in the united States will be either be murdered, or be sent away to prison camps.

This is the time to decide to go the way of Iceland (the 53%), or Greece (the 47%) folks, it is later than we all think when it comes to our future as a nation and as Americans period.


And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[Trew2Life]

Like this...you know, where you separately quote each point you're addressing instead of embedding your comments within the quote tags. It's only courteous.

Never let it be said, 'Trew2Life isn't courteous'.

You're under-estimating the persistency of the new voter generation in the new voter age. BHO still shows the ability to bring out the youths to his rallies and speeches and motivations (to vote) are high.

2.4 milion people is a lot of votes. These kids are growing up in the age of Occupy Wall Street, The Tea Party, SB70, UC Davis. They're ready to vote! The pollster may be using a bad sample, but they would be getting the same results.
Thus, The Romney campaign has changed direction in recent ads to portray a more 'caring' side of Romney.

So ... by your own closing explanation, the establishment is known to tweak poll numbers for ulterior motives. Hmmm

That's why I never really put to much faith in polls. I don't even trust those 9 out of 10 dentist.

Sorry. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Nor am I a Alphabet Voter. Nor do I practice the Revisionist History you just described of Reaganomics and Bush.

With respect to the ME, you want BHO to play the role of Messiah and bring everlasting peace. That's not really worth debating and you haven't answered the question. Are you ready to go to war with Iran?

I do not see Romney advocating for a 'middle position' and it isn't from lack of trying. The man has stood on each side of each of his major positions of the last 20 years. I just saw and old Bain Capital video of Romney explaining the Bain Capital method of 'private equity'. Dispite the commentary (which is obviously biased), hear it from Romney's own mouth @ 2:35

[jtmac]

Most, if not all, of the conservatives saying he has "blown it" are what we call RINOs. RINOs are on the endangered political species list at last check.

I don't think Romney has "blown it", sometimes it seems like he's trying.

Cry "RINO" all you want, but just because someone is upset with one person doesn't mean they are secretly for the other guy.

[Goaltender66]

Never let it be said, 'Trew2Life isn't courteous'.

You're under-estimating the persistency of the new voter generation in the new voter age. BHO still shows the ability to bring out the youths to his rallies and speeches and motivations (to vote) are high.

And your support for this is....where?

2.4 milion people is a lot of votes. These kids are growing up in the age of Occupy Wall Street, The Tea Party, SB70, UC Davis. They're ready to vote! The pollster may be using a bad sample, but they would be getting the same results.
Thus, The Romney campaign has changed direction in recent ads to portray a more 'caring' side of Romney.
If they are using a bad sample, how can they be getting the same results as that of a "good" sample?

Here's something that a critical thinker would wonder. If Obama were *really* ahead by 10 points in OH...why is he spending tons of money and time in that state? What are his internal polls telling him that Quinnipiac isn't?

So ... by your own closing explanation, the establishment is known to tweak poll numbers for ulterior motives. Hmmm

That's why I never really put to much faith in polls. I don't even trust those 9 out of 10 dentist.
What establishment? Are you arguing that pollsters don't have their own motives?

Hey, if Quinnipiac thinks a D+9 with depressed R turnout is a valid predictive model, let them support it. But the facts on the ground don't.

Sorry. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Nor am I a Alphabet Voter. Nor do I practice the Revisionist History you just described of Reaganomics and Bush.
You don't think the 80s and early 90s had expansionary GDP?

With respect to the ME, you want BHO to play the role of Messiah and bring everlasting peace. That's not really worth debating and you haven't answered the question. Are you ready to go to war with Iran?
That isn't what I want...that's what Obama said he'd do, by virtue of being Obama. And he failed. What I don't want him to do is apologize for our 1A protections and grovel at the feet of Islamofascists.

I do not see Romney advocating for a 'middle position' and it isn't from lack of trying. The man has stood on each side of each of his major positions of the last 20 years.
Then I don't think you're listening. Status quo means Medicare and Social Security go bankrupt within the next 15 years. A "middle" position is trying to save it. An extreme position is closing it all down.

I just saw and old Bain Capital video of Romney explaining the Bain Capital method of 'private equity' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSiQ_4LGeW4). Dispite the commentary (which is obviously biased), hear it from Romney's own mouth @ 2:35

You're very hostile to private enterprise.

[Trew2Life]

My support for this is obvious in the current events, Everywhere you look, you see people - all over the world - taking up their right to vote.

Most particularly, right here in America as our last two elections have been billed as, 'the most important election of your lifetime'. The old models and trends cannot be relied up, my friend.

As far as BHO campaigning in key swing states ... where is he supposed to campaign? It ain't over till it's over.

It's your explanation that Quinnipiac et. al were 'futzing with the poll sample'. I always do my ground work and the 2012 turn out will be equal to or greater than 2008. If I prove it to you now, that would make me a Prophet, and I am not. So I will have to let you see it happen for yourself.

I'm not hostile to private enterprise at all. I realize what Bain Capital does has it's place in free enterprise. That doesn't mean it don't suck. It's like this old saying, 'Everyone loves a good steak, but no one wants to date the butcher.' Mitt Romney is the butcher of Bain in that analogy.

[JMag]

I don't think Romney has "blown it", sometimes it seems like he's trying.

Cry "RINO" all you want, but just because someone is upset with one person doesn't mean they are secretly for the other guy.

True. Sometimes they are just not too bright.

[DanaT]

Does anyone ever feel like firing a liberal who works for them just for sport?


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[Goaltender66]

My support for this is obvious in the current events, Everywhere you look, you see people - all over the world - taking up their right to vote.

Most particularly, right here in America as our last two elections have been billed as, 'the most important election of your lifetime'. The old models and trends cannot be relied up, my friend.

As far as BHO campaigning in key swing states ... where is he supposed to campaign? It ain't over till it's over.

It's your explanation that Quinnipiac et. al were 'futzing with the poll sample'. I always do my ground work and the 2012 turn out will be equal to or greater than 2008. If I prove it to you now, that would make me a Prophet, and I am not. So I will have to let you see it happen for yourself.

There are some facts on the ground that either you don't know about or you didn't do the "ground work" to begin with.

To recap, your contention is that people are being added to the voter rolls by virtue of turning 18, and that explains a +9 D turnout model.

However, again let's look at OH. Voter registration in OH is down by 490,000 from 2008. So immediately we are looking at a smaller pool of voters, not a larger one. Second, that reduction is concentrated (44%) in Cleveland proper and Cuyahoga county, where Dems outnumber Republicans by 2:1. Now even if you want to make the argument that the raw registered number in OH is still higher for Ds than Rs (which you can't really support anyway, since OH doesn't register by party), it's clear the margin is down since 2008, and yet here Quinnipiac is forecasting an increased D turnout and a decreased R turnout.

Quinnipiac's model is wildly unrealistic, and the Obama campaign knows it. Otherwise they wouldn't be wasting time and money in a state they ostensibly carry by 10 points.

So to me it's either that Quinnipiac is incredibly incompetent (which I don't believe) or they are trying to create polling cover for Obama.

Ds aren't going to be +9 over Rs in this election. Bet you a steak dinner. :)


I'm not hostile to private enterprise at all. I realize what Bain Capital does has it's place in free enterprise. That doesn't mean it don't suck. It's like this old saying, 'Everyone loves a good steak, but no one wants to date the butcher.' Mitt Romney is the butcher of Bain in that analogy.

I'll put it another way...if you're taking up for Obama, by definition you're hostile to private enterprise. :)

[mhambi]

Does anyone ever feel like firing a liberal who works for them just for sport?


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Reparations! :supergrin:

[kat1950]

Does anyone ever feel like firing a liberal who works for them just for sport?


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I fired 12 people in 2008 that voted for Obama, I took a vote of my other people, they voted to get rid of them. I did explain to them that people do not get paid by poor people and good luck in finding another job, and also when they go home to explain to their families they would have to look to Obama for work, food, etc.

Now we only hire registered republican voters, we also got together with 22 other business in our area that also fired their Obama voters, in total we sent 67 liberal moochers on their way.

[Restless28]

I fired 12 people in 2008 that voted for Obama, I took a vote of my other people, they voted to get rid of them. I did explain to them that people do not get paid by poor people and good luck in finding another job, and also when they go home to explain to their families they would have to look to Obama for work, food, etc.

Now we only hire registered republican voters, we also got together with 22 other business in our area that also fired their Obama voters, in total we sent 67 liberal moochers on their way.

You're a real piece of work.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts here ever. I guess you deserve a trophy or something.

[kat1950]

You're a real piece of work.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts here ever. I guess you deserve a trophy or something.


Another moocher, and supporter of a truly incompetent person who has spent 6 Trillion dollars and running this country into the ground.

By the way what I need is to convince more companies in my area to rid themselves of these people, they support raising our taxes and implement regulations that are seriously detrimental to business that would create great hardship on me and my family, so I feel they should undergo that same hardship.


The President is for redistribution of wealth, so I feel it is only right to show the consequences of such action.

[jame]

I fired 12 people in 2008 that voted for Obama, I took a vote of my other people, they voted to get rid of them. I did explain to them that people do not get paid by poor people and good luck in finding another job, and also when they go home to explain to their families they would have to look to Obama for work, food, etc.

Now we only hire registered republican voters, we also got together with 22 other business in our area that also fired their Obama voters, in total we sent 67 liberal moochers on their way.

Wow. This thread is still going. No for long now, I fear.

Listen, I'm a conservative blue collar guy. I'm voting for Romney.

But if you did these things, you sir are a top shelf d-bag.

You can someone for their political beliefs? What next? Religion? Skin color?

You're not a conservative. You're a dictator. Doing illegal things, btw. If I could find the people you fired, I'd be sure to forward this thread to them so they could get you ass locked up.

Conservative my ass….

[Restless28]

Another moocher, and supporter of a truly incompetent person who has spent 6 Trillion dollars and running this country into the ground.

By the way what I need is to convince more companies in my area to rid themselves of these people, they support raising our taxes and implement regulations that are seriously detrimental to business that would create great hardship on me and my family, so I feel they should undergo that same hardship.


The President is for redistribution of wealth, so I feel it is only right to show the consequences of such action.

You should feel shame if anything you posted is true.

To fire an employee because he or she disagrees with your politics is not only wrong, it is downright hateful.

To send an employee home jobless, to tell their family that they were terminated based on nothing more than their politics shows a complete lack of morals on your behalf.

As I said, if what you say is true, you are a truly awful American.

My guess is you're full of it. But, if you're not, Karma is a cruel mistress.

[BSA70]

There more and more obama signs popping up in yards around nc:crying:

[Fox184]

You should feel shame if anything you posted is true.

To fire an employee because he or she disagrees with your politics is not only wrong, it is downright hateful.

To send an employee home jobless, to tell their family that they were terminated based on nothing more than their politics shows a complete lack of morals on your behalf.

As I said, if what you say is true, you are a truly awful American.

My guess is you're full of it. But, if you're not, Karma is a cruel mistress.

Whats a shame are the liberals running this country into the ground by undue regulations, etc. This country is quickly being divided and before we know it it will by like the North vs. South. Only this time it will be the liberals vs. conservatives.

[DanaT]

Wow. This thread is still going. No for long now, I fear.

Listen, I'm a conservative blue collar guy. I'm voting for Romney.

But if you did these things, you sir are a top shelf d-bag.

You can someone for their political beliefs? What next? Religion? Skin color?

You're not a conservative. You're a dictator. Doing illegal things, btw. If I could find the people you fired, I'd be sure to forward this thread to them so they could get you ass locked up.

Conservative my ass….

1st.

Political party is not a protected status.

Second, even if you fire someone because of their skin color, its not a criminal violation. It is purely a civil matter and it goes through a different court. You dont get thrown in jail

Third, by your post, you are not a "conservative blue collar guy".

Likely a "union card holding blue collar guy"

BTW how many jobs have you personally created in your lifetime?

[DanaT]

You should feel shame if anything you posted is true.

To fire an employee because he or she disagrees with your politics is not only wrong, it is downright hateful.

To send an employee home jobless, to tell their family that they were terminated based on nothing more than their politics shows a complete lack of morals on your behalf.

As I said, if what you say is true, you are a truly awful American.

My guess is you're full of it. But, if you're not, Karma is a cruel mistress.

He is distorting my original post.

I specifically had a good justification. "For Sport"

This is perfectly valid reason. Even the govt agrees with me. As an exmaple the govt added a test for imported firearms requiring a "sporting purpose".

[WarCry]

I fired 12 people in 2008 that voted for Obama, I took a vote of my other people, they voted to get rid of them. I did explain to them that people do not get paid by poor people and good luck in finding another job, and also when they go home to explain to their families they would have to look to Obama for work, food, etc.

Now we only hire registered republican voters, we also got together with 22 other business in our area that also fired their Obama voters, in total we sent 67 liberal moochers on their way.

Another moocher, and supporter of a truly incompetent person who has spent 6 Trillion dollars and running this country into the ground.

By the way what I need is to convince more companies in my area to rid themselves of these people, they support raising our taxes and implement regulations that are seriously detrimental to business that would create great hardship on me and my family, so I feel they should undergo that same hardship.


The President is for redistribution of wealth, so I feel it is only right to show the consequences of such action.



Okay, so two things, and this is based on the thought that you're telling the truth. I don't believe that for a moment, BTW, but I'll play along.


First, you're way to protest people getting food stamps, unemployment, other government assistance, etc, is to force those numbers to go up, and encourage other business owners to do the same? Do you even remotely comprehend the sheer stupidity of that? If what you say is true, then what you've just done - LITERALLY - is taken more money out of your business and put it into the pockets of those "mooches" that YOU, PERSONALLY, created.

Secondly, and again, presuming you're not as completely full o' crap as I'm pretty certain you are, but if you ask someone who they voted for - worse, DEMAND they tell you on threat of firing - I'm pretty sure you're going to be hearing from attorneys, because I'm pretty certain that is not something you could legally do as an employer. I know for a FACT if my employer asked me, my answer would be "Yes, I voted. See, here's my sticker!" and that's all they need to know.


But it doesn't matter, because I'm about 99% certain you're just talking out of your butt, being an "internet tough-guy" who probably mans a desk in some massive cube-farm. But you carry on saying whatever you'd like. Free speech - even if it's stupid - is still alive and well.

[DanaT]

O
Secondly, and again, presuming you're not as completely full o' crap as I'm pretty certain you are, but if you ask someone who they voted for - worse, DEMAND they tell you on threat of firing - I'm pretty sure you're going to be hearing from attorneys, because I'm pretty certain that is not something you could legally do as an employer. I know for a FACT if my employer asked me, my answer would be "Yes, I voted. See, here's my sticker!" and that's all they need to know.

Many employees divulge many things without someone asking...in fact...they are even proud of many things maybe they should keep to themselves.....

[jame]

1st.

Political party is not a protected status.

Second, even if you fire someone because of their skin color, its not a criminal violation. It is purely a civil matter and it goes through a different court. You dont get thrown in jail

Third, by your post, you are not a "conservative blue collar guy".

Likely a "union card holding blue collar guy"

BTW how many jobs have you personally created in your lifetime?

Nope. Farmer, landowner, small business guy.

And to answer your question, three that I know of.

You know, your attack on me doesn't bother me.

But your defense of a jerk like that is more telling. You know, I thought your level of integrity was a little higher than that.

Oh well.....nothing surprises anymore I guess.




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[Restless28]

Okay, so two things, and this is based on the thought that you're telling the truth. I don't believe that for a moment, BTW, but I'll play along.


First, you're way to protest people getting food stamps, unemployment, other government assistance, etc, is to force those numbers to go up, and encourage other business owners to do the same? Do you even remotely comprehend the sheer stupidity of that? If what you say is true, then what you've just done - LITERALLY - is taken more money out of your business and put it into the pockets of those "mooches" that YOU, PERSONALLY, created.

Secondly, and again, presuming you're not as completely full o' crap as I'm pretty certain you are, but if you ask someone who they voted for - worse, DEMAND they tell you on threat of firing - I'm pretty sure you're going to be hearing from attorneys, because I'm pretty certain that is not something you could legally do as an employer. I know for a FACT if my employer asked me, my answer would be "Yes, I voted. See, here's my sticker!" and that's all they need to know.


But it doesn't matter, because I'm about 99% certain you're just talking out of your butt, being an "internet tough-guy" who probably mans a desk in some massive cube-farm. But you carry on saying whatever you'd like. Free speech - even if it's stupid - is still alive and well.

I literally stood up and applauded this. It's about time that common sense stood up on this forum.

[Trew2Life]

Free speech - even if it's stupid - is still alive and well.


:devildance: It's alive.

[NeverMore1701]

:devildance: It's alive.

We can tell, you're here.

[maximus1079]

You will get your answer on November 6th
Agreed! Good call *nod*