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TattooedGlock
09-24-2012, 06:20
So, for hogs and deer, which Underwood rounds do you guys like? No cosmic theories, just rounds you have used that have worked. :)

ctious
09-24-2012, 06:26
Hardcast. Don't bother with hp. They work but hardcast works much better.

TattooedGlock
09-24-2012, 06:30
Underwood only has one option for that. Should I look at Double Tap's hardcast?

Ken52789
09-24-2012, 08:18
Underwood is in my opinion far superior than doubletap. I doubt you'll be disappointed with the 220 hardcast

alwaysshootin
09-24-2012, 08:23
I load my own hard cast 200 grain to 1250 FPS, but if I were going to buy my hunting ammo, without hesitation, I'd get these from underwoodammo.com!

http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto200grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx

I'm sure they will do nicely! I just feel the hard cast has a better chance for complete pass through, which is what I prefer for hunting. The hard cast is better than the solids, because they will deform slightly, making for a larger wound channel. Not as larger expansion as hollow points, which is what aids in deeper, or greater, penetration.

Ramjet-SS
09-24-2012, 20:13
My experience is the heavy weight hard cast lead works well from my after market barrel but the factory barrel likes the lighter weight jacketed bullets. So the only suggestion I would offer is if you are shooting heavy weight hard cast look into a conventional rifling of the lonewolfdist or KKM.

As far as game the wider the meplat the more effective tissue disruption and effective.

Shot a deer facing me 150 lb baloney doe bullet ran the length under the hide high in the rear flank deer rolled over backwards down for the count. Nice thing is heavy weight lead you can eat right up to the wound channel not allot of blood shot meat if placed in the boiler room.

TattooedGlock
09-25-2012, 05:10
I have a buddy who swears by XTP bullets for hog and deer and he's told me he always gets pass through with large holes and lots of damage.

OregonG20
09-25-2012, 08:37
I have a buddy who swears by XTP bullets for hog and deer and he's told me he always gets pass through with large holes and lots of damage.

I haven't hunted with my 10mm yet, but a lot of the deer hunting stories pinned at the top of this forum are told using 200gr XTP's. If you use an Underwood 200gr XTP going a legit 1250 fps, I doubt you will have any problems. If you go with hardcast, you may have to change the barrel out. Some say you do, some say you don't. Every gun is different.

Anyway, there is a lot of real world experience in this thread:

Deer Hunting Thread (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1373461)

Meathead9
09-25-2012, 10:53
.
There's TONS of info here on 10mm hunting loads & ammo, a quick search turned this up:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=11254896


.

Kwesi
09-26-2012, 17:01
I have a buddy who swears by XTP bullets for hog and deer and he's told me he always gets pass through with large holes and lots of damage.

Planning for my very first hunting trip for hogs in Texas. Been reading the threads and decided to call Underwood. I spoke with Kevin and his personal favorite is their 200gr XTP. I plan on using my CA89-10mm with 8.85" barrel. I will have my registered full auto HK Trigger Housing so I can legally attach the stock. I'm guessing the XTP will get up to 1350 with the extra 4". I'll carry the G20 with the KKM barrel. IIRC I've got a 22# spring in there. Does this sound like a proper approach?

Buski
09-28-2012, 07:48
I reload my own; but, the velocities would match what Underwood advertises (ie 1250 fps, out of a standard length G20 barrel).

I know that my 200gr XTP load, out of a G29 (ie KKM barrel, 20 lb recoil spring) will completely penetrate 13" of pig, @ the shoulder, @ 15yds:supergrin:.

Dropped her like second semester French.

I'm a believer in the 200gr XTP.

Good shooting

TattooedGlock
09-28-2012, 09:22
Ordered the Underwood 200 XTP. Watched a few vids online of that round being used on game up to Elk. No issues. Can't wait till fall!

Glocktex
09-28-2012, 15:36
Do you have the links to the XTP 220 hunting videos? Thanks!

TattooedGlock
09-28-2012, 16:42
There's a guy named Razor Dobbs, he's from my neck of the woods. On Sportsman Channel. He's hunts with a 10mm and likes the 180 and 200 XTP rounds. Do a Google.

arushus
09-28-2012, 16:47
I recommend either one, 200xtp or the hardcast. They should both do very well. On hogs the 180xtp would work well also, IMO.

Man there is a lot of new guys here! Ive been over on m4 carbine forum for the past six months or so, I come back to the good ol 10 ring and it has exploded!!!

kry226
10-19-2012, 05:03
Slight resurrection here...but I have a serious, non-sarcastic, info-gathering question.

I'll be picking up my first 10mm (G20SF) early next month, particularly for hunting deer and hogs. My question comes from the fact that the pistol bullet weight discussions here are not necessarily in line with rifle bullet weight discussions for the same game (deer and hogs). I am not trying to compare apples to oranges, but I think the principles of expansion are largely the same...

For example, in a .30 cal rifle for deer-sized game, I'd be much more inclined to use a 150-165 gr bullet versus the 180-200+ gr bullet. The heavier bullet would tend over-penetrate before achieving full expansion, expanding slower. Obviously, for elk, moose, and probably bear, I'd choose the heavier projectile since I have to penetrate deeper before I need the expansion.

Here, in the 10mm, everyone seems to be trying to use the heaviest bullets (200 gr) versus the lighter 155-ish offerings. This isn't making much sense to me. To me, the lighter bullets at much higher velocities seem like they would be preferred and would achieve better expansion and thus, more damage than a heavier projectile at slower velocities. I might get better penetration with the heavier ones, but without the requisite expansion that I am looking for in a hunting bullet. It seems to be akin to shooting with a FMJ...like being stabbed with an ice pick. Personally, I have no problem not getting complete pass-throughs as I know every ounce of energy that bullet was carrying went into that animal.

Can someone explain the drastically different philosophy here, please? I would really appreciate the insight.

alwaysshootin
10-19-2012, 07:59
kry226,

I'll give it a try. When comparing rifle ballistics, to pistol ballistics, is a true, if there ever was one, apples to oranges comparison. Because of the velocities, that rifles achieve, versus those of a pistol is the great difference in what one can expect from bullet performance, and design.

Top notch rifle bullet designs, have in some cases, 3 times the velocity achieved , over the velocity achieved with the 10MM. So the rifle bullet, is designed, to give maximum weight retention, expansion, and penetration. The premier pistol bullet try to achieve the same, but is hampered, by the lack of velocity. Expansion, and weight retention is accomplished with any good bullet design, in pistol calibers. Because of the lack of great velocity, more weight is necessary, in the bullet to achieve maximum penetration.

In all bullets, rifle, or pistol, heavier equals greater penetration, and the larger the mushroom, the lesser the penetration. So in the 10MM to achieve the greatest, it's achieved with the hard cast. Giving slight deformation, for larger wound channel, over the solid, or full metal jacket design, and yet maximum weight retention for maximum penetration abilities. Which is by the way why hunters wanting to max out penetration, choose the hard cast, and others choose the 200 grain XTP. With the XTP, giving max expansion, and penetration, just not as much penetration as the hard cast. Hope the helps, somewhat.

kry226
10-19-2012, 08:49
kry226,

I'll give it a try. When comparing rifle ballistics, to pistol ballistics, is a true, if there ever was one, apples to oranges comparison. Because of the velocities, that rifles achieve, versus those of a pistol is the great difference in what one can expect from bullet performance, and design.

Top notch rifle bullet designs, have in some cases, 3 times the velocity achieved , over the velocity achieved with the 10MM. So the rifle bullet, is designed, to give maximum weight retention, expansion, and penetration. The premier pistol bullet try to achieve the same, but is hampered, by the lack of velocity. Expansion, and weight retention is accomplished with any good bullet design, in pistol calibers. Because of the lack of great velocity, more weight is necessary, in the bullet to achieve maximum penetration.

In all bullets, rifle, or pistol, heavier equals greater penetration, and the larger the mushroom, the lesser the penetration. So in the 10MM to achieve the greatest, it's achieved with the hard cast. Giving slight deformation, for larger wound channel, over the solid, or full metal jacket design, and yet maximum weight retention for maximum penetration abilities. Which is by the way why hunters wanting to max out penetration, choose the hard cast, and others choose the 200 grain XTP. With the XTP, giving max expansion, and penetration, just not as much penetration as the hard cast. Hope the helps, somewhat.

alwaysshootin,

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond, and I really do understand the extreme differences between pistol and rifle balistics. What you state makes sense, but there's something that still kind of causes me to question things (and please don't think me argumentative)...

The heavier bullet will certainly penetrate to a greater extent. But, if I wouldn't necessarily use a 200 gr bullet on a deer in a rifle due to lack of expansion even at the higher velocities (but great penetration!), why would I want to use a 200 gr bullet on a deer traveling at MUCH slower velocities? I would get great penetration, yes, but expansion would seem to be on the minimal side.

I would think that I need the best compromise between penetration and expansion, and to me, that would seem to be something a bit lighter than the 200 grainers, but certainly not the lightest bullets available either. Am I making sense?

Of course, if I am out there flapping, that's OK too. :whistling:

alwaysshootin
10-19-2012, 10:08
I'm just thinking out loud, the 10 can be confusing, especially when one is considering it for a defensive weapon, along with using it as a hunting firearm.

The bullet design, that makes it a great defense weapon does not make for a good choice in hunting firearm, and visca versa. When hunting deer, or hogs, greatest penetration is a must/plus. You want a complete pass through, for blood draining, coming out of two holes. Of course for self defense, over penetration is undesirable, for safety of others. The biggest thing with lighter bullets is deflection from heavy bone, shoulder, rib cage, etc, and less penetration. With heavier bullets, deflection from large bones is less of a concern, because there is less, or no deflection.

I would think, especially when talking about the XTP offerings, the 165, or 180's would do the trick, but the 200's would be a better choice. It's kind of like the best, of the best, of the best sir..

If you look at all applicable hunting handgun cartridges, 44 mag, .357, come to mind, the heavier the bullet is always the better choice for maximizing penetration. Bullet weight, has more to do with penetration, than does velocity. It's a physics thing, and beyond me.

Simply, I'm sure the 10 will do nicely on deer, why not just go with the best bullet weight, and design, you can? That would be in a 200 grain, hard cast, or hollow point design, going as fast as you can safely take it. With a "bread basket" shot, you can count on a complete pass through, whether heavy bone is hit or not, and that's what I want

Man I hope this helps, cause it's all i Got.:faint:

kry226
10-19-2012, 10:10
I'm just thinking out loud, the 10 can be confusing, especially when one is considering it for a defensive weapon, along with using it as a hunting firearm.

The bullet design, that makes it a great defense weapon does not make for a good choice in hunting firearm, and visca versa. When hunting deer, or hogs, greatest penetration is a must/plus. You want a complete pass through, for blood draining, coming out of two holes. Of course for self defense, over penetration is undesirable, for safety of others. The biggest thing with lighter bullets is deflection from heavy bone, shoulder, rib cage, etc, and less penetration. With heavier bullets, deflection from large bones is less of a concern, because there is less, or no deflection.

I would think, especially when talking about the XTP offerings, the 165, or 180's would do the trick, but the 200's would be a better choice. It's kind of like the best, of the best, of the best sir..

If you look at all applicable hunting handgun cartridges, 44 mag, .357, come to mind, the heavier the bullet is always the better choice for maximizing penetration. Bullet weight, has more to do with penetration, than does velocity. It's a physics thing, and beyond me.

Simply, I'm sure the 10 will do nicely on deer, why not just go with the best bullet weight, and design, you can? That would be in a 200 grain, hard cast, or hollow point design, going as fast as you can safely take it. With a "bread basket" shot, you can count on a complete pass through, whether heavy bone is hit or not, and that's what I want

Man I hope this helps, cause it's all i Got.:faint:

No, that's great. I appreciate your help. Great discussion.

alwaysshootin
10-19-2012, 10:23
No, that's great. I appreciate your help. Great discussion.

Man am I glad to hear that! Twelve hour shift, and heading to my bedding. Enjoy your 10, I'm a fanatic, and it will serve you well. I can't think of a better carry/hunting combo. It's what I've chosen. I carry 135-175 grain, and hunt with 200 grains. Hard to explain, but I'm confident in my decision. Enjoy!

nickE10mm
10-19-2012, 10:39
Yep, alwaysshootin has it. It's about minimizing potential problems. In a perfect shot in a perfect world, a 135gr Nosler would do it... but do you wanna potentially lose your animal after waiting in the rain for hours or DAYS because you chose the wrong bullet? Not worth it. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Place your shots.

You'll do fine!

kry226
10-19-2012, 10:44
Thanks, gents. Just placed an order for Underwood XTP 200 gr. I am excited as heck!

nickE10mm
10-19-2012, 16:14
Thanks, gents. Just placed an order for Underwood XTP 200 gr. I am excited as heck!

:cool::cool:

Kwesi
10-20-2012, 10:42
Newbie hunting question: I just picked up the Underwood 200gr XTP for my first hog hunt. My question: why is 180 or 200gr FMJ NOT a good choice?

alwaysshootin
10-20-2012, 11:17
Newbie hunting question: I just picked up the Underwood 200gr XTP for my first hog hunt. My question: why is 180 or 200gr FMJ NOT a good choice?

Great choice with the 200 grain XTP's, can't think of a better round to go with.

When using a FMJ, there is no bullet deformation, a perfect round wound channel, a wound channel, exactly the size of the bullet, and lastly, a pass through is most probable.

When a hollow point is used in the hunting scenario, the wound channel is larger, because the bullet expands, substantially greater in size, than a FMJ. Because of the expansion, and not staying perfectly round, as does the FMJ, you get a cutting effect, with the petals, of the jacket peeling rearward. Making for more trauma in the tissue. More damage.

Imagine shooting a hog, using a bow and arrow, with a field point tipped arrow, versus a broad head, for example. The field tip will go through, but, will only do damage to the exact track it takes. The broad head, makes a 3, or 4x, larger wound channel, which makes for a quicker dispatch of the game.

There is also another part of the factor, that has some physics to it. And that is, an expanding bullet, delivers more energy, within the cavity it travels, over the perfect hole punching of a FMJ. Layman terms, at best. Just giving it a go trying to explain.

robert91922
10-29-2012, 13:57
FMJ's are plinking bullets: lead melt and poured inside FM Jackets is usually softer than lead for hard cast bullets and thin tombac jacket arround it is not some kinda strong armour. It's kinda brittle, prone to break and tear apart easily when hitting hard bones. Between FMJ and HC I decide definitely for HC.
In woods I carry G20 w. classically rifled aftermarket IGB barrel, carry ammo is 212 gr HC (1240 fps), one spare mag contents 200gr XTP's (1250fps), another 165 gr Gold Dots (1400 fps).
For possible urban home self defence (God forbids) I have 180gr Gold dots (1200 fps).
my 2 c :cool:

Kwesi
10-29-2012, 15:12
Great choice with the 200 grain XTP's, can't think of a better round to go with.

When using a FMJ, there is no bullet deformation, a perfect round wound channel, a wound channel, exactly the size of the bullet, and lastly, a pass through is most probable.

When a hollow point is used in the hunting scenario, the wound channel is larger, because the bullet expands, substantially greater in size, than a FMJ. Because of the expansion, and not staying perfectly round, as does the FMJ, you get a cutting effect, with the petals, of the jacket peeling rearward. Making for more trauma in the tissue. More damage.

Imagine shooting a hog, using a bow and arrow, with a field point tipped arrow, versus a broad head, for example. The field tip will go through, but, will only do damage to the exact track it takes. The broad head, makes a 3, or 4x, larger wound channel, which makes for a quicker dispatch of the game.

There is also another part of the factor, that has some physics to it. And that is, an expanding bullet, delivers more energy, within the cavity it travels, over the perfect hole punching of a FMJ. Layman terms, at best. Just giving it a go trying to explain.

Thank you! I will be using the 200 grain XTP's but I do have one other question. If all you had we're 180gr FMJ BUT were able to deliver say 3-6 rounds on target in a single burst (f/a) would there still be concerns over bullet choice?

cadjak
10-30-2012, 12:18
Thank you! I will be using the 200 grain XTP's but I do have one other question. If all you had we're 180gr FMJ BUT were able to deliver say 3-6 rounds on target in a single burst (f/a) would there still be concerns over bullet choice?
If you can guarantee an accurate shot to a critical part of the animals body, everything from squirrels to grizzly have been killed with a .22lr. Shot placement will do more than the worlds most ideal bullet design. If the shot isn't right, throwing a bunch of bullets won't make it any better. I guess if my survival depended on taking the game, I might rethink that some. I don't think folks here are saying the 180gr can't do the job, it's just that there are better choices.

Kwesi
10-30-2012, 12:26
If you can guarantee an accurate shot to a critical part of the animals body, everything from squirrels to grizzly have been killed with a .22lr. Shot placement will do more than the worlds most ideal bullet design. If the shot isn't right, throwing a bunch of bullets won't make it any better. I guess if my survival depended on taking the game, I might rethink that some. I don't think folks here are saying the 180gr can't do the job, it's just that there are better choices.

Thank you! Since I never hunted I can see I have a lot to learn on shot placement alone.

Kwesi
10-30-2012, 13:50
If you can guarantee an accurate shot to a critical part of the animals body, everything from squirrels to grizzly have been killed with a .22lr. Shot placement will do more than the worlds most ideal bullet design. If the shot isn't right, throwing a bunch of bullets won't make it any better. I guess if my survival depended on taking the game, I might rethink that some. I don't think folks here are saying the 180gr can't do the job, it's just that there are better choices.

Thank you! Since I never hunted I can see I have a lot to learn on shot placement alone.