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MississipVol
09-26-2012, 12:09
Help me make my next purchase PLEASE!!! :-)

I am new to AR's and working on shooting with my iron sights but also trying to decide on my 1st optic for my brand new Colt LE6920-MP.

I have narrowed it down to 2 completely different "scopes":

The Vortex Strikefire Red/Green Dot

Pros - Only costs $170 which includes the mount and a 2X magnifier so I could get before Christmas. Great reviews on Amazon and talked to several people that have one and they all like it and don't regret the purchase. Would probably work for most purposes.

Cons - I don't have the greatest eyesight and MAY want to use my AR for deer hunting so is a 1X red dot enough??

The Burris MTAC 1-4X24 with illuminated ballistic CQ reticle

Pros - True 1X and up to 4X so I could get a better view of targets and would come in very handy if I wanted to stretch my target distance (or use to deer hunt). Clear glass. Has great eye relief for a scope and an illuminated ballistic reticle that is easy to pick up.

Cons - costs $399 and would probably get a Burris PEPR mount thats another $100 - so at $500 I would probably have to wait until after Christmas at least to purchase. The Burris is also longer than I wanted on my AR at 11.3" and would prevent use of my back folding sight.

So should I go ahead and get the Vortex strikefire and only get a scope later down the road if I think I need it? (Could possible use the vortex elsewhere).

OR - Should I continue saving and get the Burris MTAC knowing it would be all I would ever need?

Some of you experienced guys - please help me with your advice! Thanks!!!

bmoore
09-26-2012, 12:28
The Vortex red/green does not get nearly bright enough for outside use. If you are set a on a Vortex strikefire get the red only version, it is much brigther. I had a Vortex Strikfire, it was a fine optic for the money. I now have an EOTech EXPS2-0. My advice would be wait until you can buy an EOTech or Aimpoint PRO. I have zero experience with 1-4 optics. Don't go cheap on your optics, you will be glad you bought quality years down the road.

mvician
09-26-2012, 12:46
Do you want or need magnification?

1-4x scopes are big/heavy. Do you want that extra weight?

Red Dots......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.

MississipVol
09-26-2012, 12:50
Do you want or need magnification?

1-4x scopes are big/heavy. Do you want that extra weight?

Red Dots......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.

Actually, I am not entirely sure I NEED the magnification but I am thinking if I try to place a shot on a deer 200 yards away I probably would.

AZ Cat
09-26-2012, 13:30
I've wrestled with the same issue. I suspect that for your use you'll find the 1x4 to be a better and more useful choice. For most of us red-dots are fun but not as practical as a more traditional scope.

All that said, I've owned many Vortex products and they are simply outstanding. The equal of competitors that are twice the price. Excellent glass, very well built and the best warranty ever (double check to make sure it applies to red dots). For a but more (I think $200-ish) you can get their Sparc red dot which compares to the Aimpoint PRO but at a substantial discount.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

Jeremy_K
09-26-2012, 13:38
I have the red/green Strikefire on my AR. I have no problems shooting in broad daylight out to 200 yards. The dot will cover a 10" target at 200 yards about the size of a pie plate. Granted, I can get a decent group with the right ammo @ 200, I wouldn't prefer this optic for deer hunting. Not to mention that a .223 isn't the optimal round for deer hunting(IMO). The field of view sucks on any dot scope too. The Nikon P-223 3-9x scope looks like it would be a nice scope for the AR. It's basically a Nikon Pro Staff with target turrets and BDC reticle set up for the .223 round. I will probably end up getting one to use from time to time and swap out the red dot. The P-223 is not much more than the Vortex either.

MississipVol
09-26-2012, 15:12
I have the red/green Strikefire on my AR. I have no problems shooting in broad daylight out to 200 yards. The dot will cover a 10" target at 200 yards about the size of a pie plate. Granted, I can get a decent group with the right ammo @ 200, I wouldn't prefer this optic for deer hunting. Not to mention that a .223 isn't the optimal round for deer hunting(IMO). The field of view sucks on any dot scope too. The Nikon P-223 3-9x scope looks like it would be a nice scope for the AR. It's basically a Nikon Pro Staff with target turrets and BDC reticle set up for the .223 round. I will probably end up getting one to use from time to time and swap out the red dot. The P-223 is not much more than the Vortex either.

I don't do very much deer hunting at all and, with this being my only rifle, its pretty much my only option if I go. However, I know not to try to take a deer if its much farther than 200 yds.

I have looked at the Nikon and really like it but it doesn't have the illuminated reticle of the Burris and with the bottom magnification of 3X, I would probably have to get a mini red dot to use with it anyway.

Its the fact that i will only go deer hunting once or twice a year that has me thinking I should only get a red dot but I am still unsure.

Glock Holliday
09-26-2012, 15:46
......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.

+1 That's good advice.

cpham9006
09-26-2012, 16:48
My advice would be wait until you can buy an EOTech or Aimpoint PRO.

So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.

bigmoney890
09-26-2012, 16:55
So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.

While they are both great optics, the Aimpoint is supposed to be more rugged. The Aimpoint also has way better battery life.

I personally like the Eotech reticle. If Aimpoint made a reticle like Eotech, i'd be all over it like stupid on Pam Anderson!

NeverMore1701
09-26-2012, 17:13
So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.

I went with the EOTech EXPS2 because I shoot more quickly and accurately at longer distances than I did with the H1 I sold to buy it. Mine works perfectly, doesn't drain batteries when it's off or any of that. I'm sure my opinion would be different if I got a lemon.

MississipVol
09-26-2012, 18:31
You guys make some great red dot suggestions.

So I guess my bottom line point it...with what I described in my two earlier posts ITT, should I go with a 1-4X24 scope that has an illuminated ballistic CQ reticle ~OR~ a red dot sight like an EOTech or Aimpoint?

bmoore
09-26-2012, 18:34
So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.

Depends on what you want, you should try both before buying. I prefer EOTech.

NeverMore1701
09-26-2012, 18:52
I really like some of the high end low power variables, but at your budget I'd get an EOTech or Aimpoint.

K. Foster
09-26-2012, 21:14
For a multitude of uses a low power variable like the MTAC is going to be more versatile than just a red dot.
But if you are going to get a RDS, save for an Aimpoint.

catalyst686
09-26-2012, 21:43
Like everyone else here has said, save up and get an eotech or aimpoint. Buy once cry once.

WoodenPlank
09-26-2012, 22:04
Aimpoint PRO.

Also, I would't suggest using .223 for deer at anything except VERY close range (sub-50 yards) just to help ensure a quick and clean kill. Then again, I personally wouldn't hunt deer with anything below .30 caliber.

Hogs, on the other hand....

TexAg
09-26-2012, 22:25
Burris TAC 30? Got mine for $280 and its very clear with the illumination capable of super bright.

Walt_NC
09-26-2012, 22:32
Like everyone else here has said, save up and get an eotech or aimpoint. Buy once cry once.

Excellent advice.

------

IMO, you can't beat the eotech for rapid acquisition in CQB-distance engagements and shooting with NVG's. The Aimpoints strength is its battery life. You can leave it on and go half a deployment without having to worry about changing batteries. Neither is going to allow you to shoot minute-of-angle groups, but both are more than capable of shooting minute-of-dude out to 200-250m, guys tend to get lost behind the dot past that.

I prefer eotechs for work but do have an old M68 (aimpoint) mounted on my pig gun.

Regardless, put your hands on all of your options do you can make an informed decision. Good luck!

Hour13
09-26-2012, 23:01
I've wrestled with the same issue. I suspect that for your use you'll find the 1x4 to be a better and more useful choice. For most of us red-dots are fun but not as practical as a more traditional scope.

All that said, I've owned many Vortex products and they are simply outstanding. The equal of competitors that are twice the price. Excellent glass, very well built and the best warranty ever (double check to make sure it applies to red dots). For a but more (I think $200-ish) you can get their Sparc red dot which compares to the Aimpoint PRO but at a substantial discount.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

Not trying to start a war here... but this? ^^^

I agree that the Vortex optics are GREAT for the money. For a range/practice gun, even for HD, I'd trust it.

But I've owned quite a few red-dots. Currently enjoying having a Vortex Strikefire, and it's "equal" the Aimpoint CompM2.

Though the controls are god-awful, I do like the Strikefire. It will serve the needs of alot of people just fine.

But anyone who believes that with an Aimpoint or Eotech, you're just paying for the name? Sadly delusional, or has likely never owned one.

Had both, personally prefer Aimpoint over EOtech. But they're both excellent. Tough as nails, true parallux-free operation, well thought out controls. Will absolutely do what they need to do in the worst conditions.

Value has nothing to do with price, it's what you're getting for the hard earned greenbacks you're shelling out.

Aimpoint & Eotech make "combat" worthy optics. You can beat the crap out of them, and they keep on kicking(something to think about if you plan to drag it through the woods on hunting trips).

Do you need a "combat" RDS? Only you know the answer to that.

If not, the Vortex line is a good value.

If so, IMO the best bargains you'll ever find will be the Aimpoint PRO, followed closely by the EOtech 512.

:wavey:

TheBelly
09-26-2012, 23:21
Do you want or need magnification?

1-4x scopes are big/heavy. Do you want that extra weight?

Red Dots......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.

Don't save too much weight by using an AIMPOINT PRO over the burris MTAC 1-4... 12oz vs 17~ish ounces respectively.

A red dot style optic will be easier to catch the dot if you need faster engagements. a scope will have eye-relief, height-over bore, cheekweld things.....

If it were my dime: I'd spend just a LITTLE bit more and get the Aimpoint Micro H-1 w/Daniel Defense Mount from G and R Tactical: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=APH1DD

The whole thing weighs a whopping quarter pound.

(Disclaimer: I've bought from G and R before and have had an awesome experience, both pre and post sale... but I don't work for them nor do I have any vested interest in them... just a good price for an awesome piece of kit.)

NeverMore1701
09-26-2012, 23:23
I do agree that the smaller red dots are the way to go, I wouldn't want one bigger than my EXPS.

AZ Cat
09-26-2012, 23:53
Not trying to start a war here... but this? ^^^

I agree that the Vortex optics are GREAT for the money. For a range/practice gun, even for HD, I'd trust it.

But I've owned quite a few red-dots. Currently enjoying having a Vortex Strikefire, and it's "equal" the Aimpoint CompM2.

Though the controls are god-awful, I do like the Strikefire. It will serve the needs of alot of people just fine.

But anyone who believes that with an Aimpoint or Eotech, you're just paying for the name? Sadly delusional, or has likely never owned one.

Had both, personally prefer Aimpoint over EOtech. But they're both excellent. Tough as nails, true parallux-free operation, well thought out controls. Will absolutely do what they need to do in the worst conditions.

Value has nothing to do with price, it's what you're getting for the hard earned greenbacks you're shelling out.

Aimpoint & Eotech make "combat" worthy optics. You can beat the crap out of them, and they keep on kicking(something to think about if you plan to drag it through the woods on hunting trips).

Do you need a "combat" RDS? Only you know the answer to that.

If not, the Vortex line is a good value.

If so, IMO the best bargains you'll ever find will be the Aimpoint PRO, followed closely by the EOtech 512.

:wavey:

Fair enough and I appreciate your perspective. I think that Aimpoints are excellent optics that are fairly priced - I don't have any experience with Eotech. My point wasn't that you are "paying for the name" when you buy an Aimpoint, but rather that in my experience you're getting a product that is worth more than its price if you purchase a Vortex. Also to clarify I was trying to make the point that the Vortex Sparc - not the Strikefire - compares to the Aimpoint. Your mileage may vary of course! :supergrin:

TheBelly
09-27-2012, 00:22
The need for combat optics is different than the need for other optics. There are two big reasons why I choose 'combat' optics, specifically the Aimpoint for HD:


Battery Life: turn it on, leave it on, it will be on the next time I need it, as long as it's sometime before the turn of the century, it'll still be there turned on.

it can get the crap kicked out of it and still work.

Hour13
09-27-2012, 06:46
EOtech 512 A-65 ... $365 :supergrin:

Amazon.com: EOTech 512.A65 Tactical HOLOgraphic AA Batteries Weapon Sight: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31NkQtGGf6L.@@AMEPARAM@@31NkQtGGf6L



Fair enough and I appreciate your perspective. I think that Aimpoints are excellent optics that are fairly priced - I don't have any experience with Eotech. My point wasn't that you are "paying for the name" when you buy an Aimpoint, but rather that in my experience you're getting a product that is worth more than its price if you purchase a Vortex. Also to clarify I was trying to make the point that the Vortex Sparc - not the Strikefire - compares to the Aimpoint. Your mileage may vary of course! :supergrin:

Lol, the "paying for the name" wasn't directed specifically at you. 'Round here, there tends to be three groups.

1) If you aren't setting up a Noveske topped with an ACOG, you shouldn't get an AR at all.

2) There's zero difference between the above^ rifle, and a DPMS topped with a BSA.

3) The guys/gals who fall in the middle(reality).


And again, I'm not bashing Vortex. They make great stuff at the price point. I've had the Sparc, and the Strikefire. Both great optics, if your RDS budget is $200 or less.

But the Aimpoint Micro & Comp series that they're respectively modeled after are on a completely different playing field. May start a war here, but in reality, above and beyond EOtech's line-up as well.

The unholy hell you can put an Aimpoint through, is unbelievable.

"... ain't nothing like the real thing baby..."

:cool:

MrMurphy
09-27-2012, 07:16
If you're primarily doing target shooting and occasional hunting, get a Nikon Coyote 2-7X or Burris Fullfield, they're around $200.

Anything 3X and below can still work in close, though at room distances it gets a little harder.

If you're primarily a HD/action sport (3-gun, etc) type shooter where you're simulating something like combat, shooting on the move, weird positions, etc.... get an Aimpoint Pro. Period. If you're tight on money a Primary Arms will simulate one enough to get you used to the idea and not make you go broke, but if possible, just save the pennies up front for one.

XDRoX
09-27-2012, 07:19
Midway has the Aimpoint PRO right now for $400, free shipping. Use a coupon code for $30 or $35 off and you have it shipping to your door for $365 or $370 flat. That's a deal.

I just went through the same problem a few weeks ago. What sold me was the battery life on the Aimpoint.

Here is mine.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar155.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar154.jpg

XDRoX
09-27-2012, 07:24
Also regarding the comment about the flip up front cover. You don't even have to flip the cover up in order to uses the site. The rear cover has a window in it. So the site works fine with the front cover closed with both eyes opened.

Hour13
09-27-2012, 08:10
Midway has the Aimpoint PRO right now for $400, free shipping. Use a coupon code for $30 or $35 off and you have it shipping to your door for $365 or $370 flat. That's a deal.

I just went through the same problem a few weeks ago. What sold me was the battery life on the Aimpoint.

Here is mine.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar155.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar154.jpg

Wow, no kidding, that's a killer deal.
:shocked:


Nice rig too btw.

:thumbsup:

XDRoX
09-27-2012, 08:51
Wow, no kidding, that's a killer deal.
:shocked:


Nice rig too btw.

:thumbsup:

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Simple Magpul furniture. I really like the Magpul stuff. And a complete BCM 14.5" upper. It had a 16" BCM on it for the past few years but I wanted to go a little shorter. I'm really impressed with the new 14.5". It feels great swinging it around.

Here it is without the Aimpoint.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar152.jpg?t=1347491286

And here is the simulation that I built beofre I bought the parts to make sure I liked the looks of everything.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar1.jpg?t=1347296222

Pretty close match, huh? :supergrin:

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar151.jpg?t=1347337807

I went back and forth between FDE and Black. Black won...

Here are the current midway codes. Looks like there is a $35 off $300 purchase. That means $365 shipped to your door for a great optic.

http://www.slickguns.com/content/midway-usa

WinterWizard
09-27-2012, 10:44
The Vortex red/green does not get nearly bright enough for outside use.

I always read this, but my Vortex red/green dot is just fine on a clear, sunny day with the green dot all the way at the highest setting. I guess some people just want that red dot so bright that it is burned permanently into their retinas – I am not one of them.

bmoore
09-27-2012, 11:26
I always read this, but my Vortex red/green dot is just fine on a clear, sunny day with the green dot all the way at the highest setting. I guess some people just want that red dot so bright that it is burned permanently into their retinas – I am not one of them.

Mine sucked in daylight, it was sent back and swapped out. I don't want my retinas burned- I just want the dot there nice and clear when I bring the rifle up. I sold the red only version too, EOTech and Aimpoint are on a whole different level.

scccdoc
09-27-2012, 11:42
Mine sucked in daylight, it was sent back and swapped out. I don't want my retinas burned- I just want the dot there nice and clear when I bring the rifle up. I sold the red only version too, EOTech and Aimpoint are on a whole different level.

"swapped out"................. for? DOC

bmoore
09-27-2012, 14:47
"swapped out"................. for? DOC

For the red only version

Blade37db
09-27-2012, 16:22
I know you indicated that you have narrowed your search down to 2 options, but I thought I'd throw this one out there in case you hadn't come across it. Have it on my Stag Model 2. It's short & light. I've only used it out to 100 yards.
http://www.nikonhunting.com/products/riflescopes/p-223/3x32_BDC_Carbine/8496

Paid $150. Nikon has a rebate currently available. Rings were $50.

Walk Soft
09-27-2012, 17:12
[QUOTE=XDRoX;19460710]Midway has the Aimpoint PRO right now for $400, free shipping. Use a coupon code for $30 or $35 off and you have it shipping to your door for $365 or $370 flat. That's a deal.

Hey thanks man.I just ordered one.:wavey:

Cole125
09-27-2012, 20:23
You cannot go wrong with a Aimpoint Pro, mine has been great.

If you want a little magnification without the size and bulk of a 1-4x, take a look at the Burris AR-332 3x tactical scope. This is a quality piece, pretty much a battery powered ACOG for much less money. I've got one and its held zero on one of my ARs for over a year and 2000 rounds.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/jpg/AR-332%20Prism%20Scope.jpg

Hour13
09-27-2012, 21:03
Thank you, I appreciate it.

Simple Magpul furniture. I really like the Magpul stuff. And a complete BCM 14.5" upper. It had a 16" BCM on it for the past few years but I wanted to go a little shorter. I'm really impressed with the new 14.5". It feels great swinging it around.

Here it is without the Aimpoint.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar152.jpg?t=1347491286

And here is the simulation that I built beofre I bought the parts to make sure I liked the looks of everything.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar1.jpg?t=1347296222

Pretty close match, huh? :supergrin:

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar151.jpg?t=1347337807

I went back and forth between FDE and Black. Black won...

Here are the current midway codes. Looks like there is a $35 off $300 purchase. That means $365 shipped to your door for a great optic.

http://www.slickguns.com/content/midway-usa

Lol, ya that is pretty darn good. And yes, black rifles always look good in... black!
:thumbsup:

Thanks for the link!

Gonna drop some cash in the bank tomorrow, order me up one of those... maybe two!

One can never have too many Aimpoints.
:supergrin:

DustyJacket
09-28-2012, 01:00
I had an Eotech and it was a bit fuzzy to my eye. Maybe it was my old eyes making it fuzzy.

For my 300 BLK, I am going with really good iron sights at 25 yards, and the Burris Mtac on a Quick Detatch LaRue mount.

I like the burris for a few reasons. Once is the multiple dots for different ranges. The other is it works even if the battery dies. Also, everyone loves the glass. Better than the Tac which has decent glass. I'll be using it on 1x most of the time.

WoodenPlank
09-28-2012, 09:21
I had an Eotech and it was a bit fuzzy to my eye. Maybe it was my old eyes making it fuzzy.

For my 300 BLK, I am going with really good iron sights at 25 yards, and the Burris Mtac on a Quick Detatch LaRue mount.

I like the burris for a few reasons. Once is the multiple dots for different ranges. The other is it works even if the battery dies. Also, everyone loves the glass. Better than the Tac which has decent glass. I'll be using it on 1x most of the time.

Let me guess, you have astigmatism? It's a known issue with most red dots that they look fuzzy to people with astigmatism. The EO Tech reticle looks really grainy to me for the same reason.

DustyJacket
09-28-2012, 10:56
Let me guess, you have astigmatism? It's a known issue with most red dots that they look fuzzy to people with astigmatism. The EO Tech reticle looks really grainy to me for the same reason.
Aye - right on the money.

Add to that: I am right handed with a left side dominant eye.

I can shoot a handgun left-eye, but a long gun is with my non-dominant eye. I have to close or squint the left eye to balance them if I want to shoot both eyes open.

Old eyes are better than no eyes.

Thx-1138
09-28-2012, 11:00
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/XDRoX619/ar1.jpg?t=1347296222


When I buy a black rifle, I need to buy two - one for my wife, and one for me that, besides color, need to be otherwise identical. I think you've just sold me on FDE and black as the two colors - and let her pick the one she wants.