4 prong dryer receptacle wiring? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Hines57
09-29-2012, 15:36
Red & black go to either flat prong, so does it matter which prong the bare and the white go to, D prong or L prong?

Zonny
09-29-2012, 15:43
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=wiring+dryer+plug&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1436&bih=780&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=gE5ct2ENr5wTaM:&imgrefurl=http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/how-to-wire-dryer.html&docid=NCN4aelNGei97M&imgurl=http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/4-prong_dryer_outlet.jpg&w=407&h=331&ei=LGtnUPLwC8mzyQGH1oHYCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=847&vpy=467&dur=130&hovh=202&hovw=249&tx=100&ty=208&sig=111658841999052887246&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:26,s:0,i:154

certifiedfunds
09-29-2012, 15:47
My college physics professor: "The wires do not know what color they are."

That's all I have

9jeeps
09-29-2012, 15:51
My college physics professor: "The wires do not know what color they are."

That's all I have

And there you have the big reason Academia is in trouble:tongueout:

Trapped_in_Kali
09-29-2012, 15:52
Green or bare is ground and goes to the "D" shaped one.
White is your neutral.
Red & Black are "Hot" or "Live".

devildog2067
09-29-2012, 16:09
And there you have the big reason Academia is in trouble:tongueout:

You understand the wisdom of that statement the first time you work on something that someone else wired up who never learned those rules.

certifiedfunds
09-29-2012, 16:12
Oh, and if you're wiring this hot keep your left hand in your pocket.

Hines57
09-29-2012, 20:45
Thanks, got it. Only shocked the crap out of myself once.

CitizenOfDreams
09-29-2012, 21:34
Thanks, got it. Only shocked the crap out of myself once.

There are situations where you have to work on a live circuit. Household receptacle installation is not one of them. Turn the breaker off. :wavey:

certifiedfunds
09-29-2012, 21:46
Thanks, got it. Only shocked the crap out of myself once.

You took your left hand out didn't ya

DaneA
09-29-2012, 22:03
You understand the wisdom of that statement the first time you work on something that someone else wired up who never learned those rules.

Been there done that. I hate cleaning up someone else's mess.

Hines57
09-29-2012, 22:11
You took your left hand out didn't ya

No I kept it in my pocket, just to get that tingly feeling all over.


No problem with the receptacle. Got a bit lit up working in the breaker panel. My project for this weekend has been putting in a new 200 amp panel. Wasn't as bad as I thought.

certifiedfunds
09-29-2012, 22:17
No I kept it in my pocket, just to get that tingly feeling all over.


No problem with the receptacle. Got a bit lit up working in the breaker panel. My project for this weekend has been putting in a new 200 amp panel. Wasn't as bad as I thought.

Someone told me about the pocket thing and I thought they were kidding till I watched an electrician work hot, then I understood it.

larry_minn
09-29-2012, 23:52
There are situations where you have to work on a live circuit. Household receptacle installation is not one of them. Turn the breaker off. :wavey:

In private residence when is this??? When I have hired electrical work I always offer to turn power off. (at least to that circut/but offer to kill main.)
They almost always say "no I prefer it live" About every third time they get "bit"... I always turn the dang thing off.

Kevin108
09-30-2012, 00:11
Learning and Fun with High Voltage

Complete 30 Minute DOMINION VIRGINIA POWER ARC DEMO Safety Trailer - YouTube

K.Kiser
09-30-2012, 08:36
Sometimes things need to stay hot to figure out how to fix some previous genius' work, not that it matters directly in said thread though... I really like laying up in a tight rock wool insulated attic balanced on joist tops with my hip bone and shoulder joint when the sun is high and the thermometer reads about 105 degrees which is about 40% less than the attic.. This is always fun when the customer asks why it's taking so long, and that we make too much $$ because the guy that used to do their electrical maintenance only charged x-amount... Love it, hugs for everyone and I'd give away free kittens if I had em'..

Heard a statistic on the news some time ago, and it stated ironically that the average person actually gets electrically shocked more than the average electrician... This is very false, I promise...

Keoking
09-30-2012, 08:44
You understand the wisdom of that statement the first time you work on something that someone else wired up who never learned those rules.

I was a summer helper for a Master Electrician who cut his teeth in the Navy. He said on old ships that EVERY wire was white, to make it more difficult to reverse engineer should the enemy capture the vessel. He said that when every wire is equal, you really learn your basic principles.

certifiedfunds
09-30-2012, 08:52
Neighbor's kid was apprenticing as an electrician in a ship yard. One day I ask him how work is going. He sighs and rubs his head a bit, "Well, the guy they have me working for is color blind."

:rofl:

kiole
09-30-2012, 08:54
Worse shock I ever got was working on a live panel adding a 220 breaker for a welder. I couldn't shut the main off as it was inaccessible at the shop we rent. I managed to slip on the wet concrete:embarassed: and fell on the panel with my forearm across the bare panel I couldn't remove my arm for a few seconds. Luckily I was fine except the tingling feeling in my arm the rest of the day. I continued my work the rest of the breaker install was uneventful.

I do irrigation work and more then once I've had to wire the irrigation controllers on live circuits as the idiots wire them into the same breaker as a critical systems in the building.(most are medical/assisted living facilities)

Gallium
09-30-2012, 08:57
My college physics professor: "The wires do not know what color they are."

That's all I have


Explains why you are biochem. :tongueout::supergrin::tongueout:

K.Kiser
09-30-2012, 09:34
I was a summer helper for a Master Electrician who cut his teeth in the Navy. He said on old ships that EVERY wire was white, to make it more difficult to reverse engineer should the enemy capture the vessel. He said that when every wire is equal, you really learn your basic principles.


As an electrician, I cringe at the thought of working on a project like that... It takes the term "confusing" to a new level, and the things that have to be kept straight in the noggin is nauseating... Like most trades, not all electricians are created equal and the guys that can move through a project like that in a timely budgeted fashion are definitely better than most...

Smacktard
09-30-2012, 10:19
Learning and Fun with High Voltage

Complete 30 Minute DOMINION VIRGINIA POWER ARC DEMO Safety Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf8QIWeRK4c)


Thank you, you may have saved my life! Now I've got to get the kids to watch.


...

certifiedfunds
09-30-2012, 10:25
Explains why you are biochem. :tongueout::supergrin::tongueout:

:rofl: No, I was biology and chemistry. The biochem folks are actually intelligent. Pre-med track in biology overlapped chem so much that for only one more semester you could double major.

Last year in college I actually got a gig tutoring physics. I managed to actually learn some prepping for mcat. Small liberal arts college and my student was telling physics prof that I was her tutor. He responded, "Do you think that's wise?" :rofl:

stevemc
10-03-2012, 03:56
Although they are bonded together at the panel, the neutral is meant to carry current and the ground is for safety only. Just because it works doesn't mean everything is alright. Installing a 200 amp. panel by a novice is hard for me to imagine it is right. Many things could be wrong. If you overloaded the neutral by having the wrong phase on the hots, you could be smelling smoke soon (does your family sleep in this house?) If you did not torque the mains right, they will become loose and heat up causing a fire hazard. Grounding, conductor size, terminations, etc. etc. But hey, at least you saved money and it wasn't as hard as you thought.

Hines57
10-06-2012, 12:03
.....But hey, at least you saved money and it wasn't as hard as you thought.
True, saved a bunch of money. Besides it was a family project. My daughter helped wire it and got her electrical merit badge for Girl Scouts. I let her do the 15 & 20 amp breakers.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL369/9440780/17240887/404164511.jpg



.

certifiedfunds
10-06-2012, 12:13
True, saved a bunch of money. Besides it was a family project. My daughter helped wire it and got her electrical merit badge for Girl Scouts. I let her do the 15 & 20 amp breakers.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL369/9440780/17240887/404164511.jpg



.

Kids are good for checking to see if wires are hot or not.

stevemc
10-06-2012, 14:31
Just to be sure, you may want to go back with a screw driver and re-tighten all connections. The main neutral in particular is notorious for being loose if not re-torqued. BTW we normally would have a #6 ground also. Maybe I'm not seeing it. Did you ground the meter?

CitizenOfDreams
10-06-2012, 14:35
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL369/9440780/17240887/404164511.jpg


Is it me, or is all your neutral current (the bus on the right) going through a single 12AWG piece of bare wire? And where exactly are the neutral and the ground, are they tied together some place ahead of the panel?

Any professional electricians here on the board?

stevemc
10-06-2012, 15:44
I'm a supervising electrician in Chicago and have been in business for 18 years. The neutral caries the difference between the phases. For example if the black has a load of 15 amps. and the red is 10 then the neutral is carrying 5 for that circuit. The wire you are referring to is larger than 12. I haven't seen a setup like this before though, looks like a #8. The manufacturer probably sells a bar that would tie the two busses together, and may be a better way of doing it. The bar on the right may be meant for grounding only. Can't really tell from the picture, but is looks to be isolated from the panel with plastic standoffs. We also don't use the SE type of cable in the picture, which is basically unprotected from the transformer to the main breaker (unless there is a breaker on the meter fitting). Panel should have come with a bonding screw also, but can't really see it. Still waiting to hear where the #6 ground (min. for 200A. panel) is.

Kids are good for checking to see if wires are hot or not.

Is it me, or is all your neutral current (the bus on the right) going through a single 12AWG piece of bare wire? And where exactly are the neutral and the ground, are they tied together some place ahead of the panel?

Any professional electricians here on the board?

Hines57
10-06-2012, 16:24
Kids are good for checking to see if wires are hot or not.

Little whiner said that is shocks more than the cattle prod. Bet she won't touch that bare wire again.

Hines57
10-06-2012, 16:30
I added the 2nd bus on the right, trying to keep it cleaned up inside. The wire connecting the 2 blocks is the same as I used for the ground (far left side, buried behind the other). Don't remember if it was 6 or 8. Neither bus was bonded, ran screws through the each into the cabinet.

certifiedfunds
10-06-2012, 16:30
Little whiner said that is shocks more than the cattle prod. Bet she won't touch that bare wire again.

She'll thank you when she's older.

CitizenOfDreams
10-06-2012, 16:38
I'm a supervising electrician in Chicago and have been in business for 18 years. The neutral caries the difference between the phases. For example if the black has a load of 15 amps. and the red is 10 then the neutral is carrying 5 for that circuit. The wire you are referring to is larger than 12. I haven't seen a setup like this before though, looks like a #8.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but common sense tells me that the neutral wire should be rated for the worst case scenario (one phase loaded to maximum current, the other phase completely unloaded). The bare wire in question might be #8, but it's still visibly smaller than the red and black phase wires coming to the panel.

Bren
10-06-2012, 18:31
You understand the wisdom of that statement the first time you work on something that someone else wired up who never learned those rules.

It reminded me of seeing band in New Orleans, in a shady venue where the guy doing the wiring knew it didn't matter which side of the outlet you connected the white or black to. He didn't choose the same side on the outlet for the bass amp and the outlet for the PA. They took the bass player away in an ambulance - end of show. Surprisingly, not that uncommon.

stevemc
10-09-2012, 05:44
Correct me if I'm wrong, but common sense tells me that the neutral wire should be rated for the worst case scenario (one phase loaded to maximum current, the other phase completely unloaded). The bare wire in question might be #8, but it's still visibly smaller than the red and black phase wires coming to the panel.

I agree with you. Downsizing the neutral is not a good idea and there is really no reason to do it. That just brings up a whole other discussion. We all believe that working on our own house is our right, but when I see a homemade solution like this it bothers me. What other cost saving actions were taken? I don't believe there is a #6 ground (there I said it). Proper bonding is REQUIRED. Is the meter and drop adequate for 200 amps? Are future owners of this house in harms way without knowing it? Would you be comfortable knowing a girl scout wired the circuits in your house for a patch? Without trying to sound crass, this is a good example of why there are electrical inspectors and laws regarding service upgrades. I see this more and more and it scares the **** out of me.

larry_minn
10-09-2012, 15:25
I agree with you. Downsizing the neutral is not a good idea and there is really no reason to do it. That just brings up a whole other discussion. We all believe that working on our own house is our right, but when I see a homemade solution like this it bothers me. What other cost saving actions were taken? I don't believe there is a #6 ground (there I said it). Proper bonding is REQUIRED. Is the meter and drop adequate for 200 amps? Are future owners of this house in harms way without knowing it? Would you be comfortable knowing a girl scout wired the circuits in your house for a patch? Without trying to sound crass, this is a good example of why there are electrical inspectors and laws regarding service upgrades. I see this more and more and it scares the **** out of me.


Its a good idea to have a basic knowledge, pick up a "wireing simplified" type book... Its not rocket science. Inspectors are a nice "thought" They stick tester in GFI outlets, other outlets they can easily see, sign off. (On initial I did mention I was moving water heater as too close, some other changes so he did have idea I had SOME clue as to code. I tend to over build stuff. I don't use 14 guage. 12 and 10 for circuts (110-120)
Important thing to know. Electricity is composed of billions of little things that race thru wires. They are just LOOKING for chance to jump off and bite a person, and or build up heat and start a fire. So you contain them well and don't give them a chance to escape. They don't merge will either. If you run them 6 lanes wide going in and only 4 lanes going back there will be traffic accidents, some will try short cuts. :0////