16" or 18" [Archive] - Glock Talk

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avenues165
09-30-2012, 13:06
Hey everyone,

I have a choice to make and I am hoping someone can help me decide which direction to go. I am looking for an upper for a lower I have, and I have decided on a precision upper. This upper will wear a scope. I see myself using it to shoot from ~100-500 yards, maybe a little further.

I am fairly certain I'll use BCM for the upper, but I have not yet ruled out having Rainier Arms build me an upper or going through Centurion for the upper. Regardless of the direction I go, it will have a SS barrel. My goal is to keep the cost below $1,200 without a scope, which I feel I can do. My goal is an upper that will shoot consistently at or below 1-1.25 MOA with match grade ammo if I do my part.

I am leaning towards an 18" barrel for the ability to take it out past 500 yards on occasion. But, I also would like to have the ability to carry it on hikes, and 18" adds weight.

Tell me what you think. What would be better, a 16" recce style set up or an 18" upper?

surf
09-30-2012, 13:39
I have both of these types of set ups and of these choices and for what you say your uses are, I would personally opt for a 16" set up. I would want to keep the weight down everywhere, not just the barrel. Barrel weight and length are always a factor in my mind when hiking / hunting, but keeping the overall weight down with how you dress the rifle is also important.

Matthew Courtney
09-30-2012, 13:50
The trace off is this: The 2 extra inches of barrel only get one about 100-150 fps of muzzle velocity, which means about 30-40 yards more range at supersonic velocity at the cost of nearly a half pound. 10-15% more weight for 5% more range under optimal circumstances.

avenues165
09-30-2012, 14:34
Thanks for the replies guys!

I should say this will not be a SD or SHTF rifle. It will wear only a scope and mount, a sling, and possibly folding sites. I plan to use a freefloat forearm like a Samson, Rainier arms, Troy, MI, etc. without rails at 3, 6, or 9 o'clock. A rail at 12 o'clock is preferred for the possibility of folding sites down the road. Lightweight is the goal for the dressing.

ETA - What uses would favor an 18" barrel? Just slightly longer range, or am I missing something?

JW1178
09-30-2012, 14:50
Hardly a difference. If you are going 18" might as well go 20" "standard" style.

Cole125
09-30-2012, 14:58
I would consider a 20 inch barrel, medium or heavy profile for a long range AR15 setup. I have a Rock River Arms Varmint 20 bull barrel upper on my SPR build, and it will group ANY ammo that will fit into the magazine less than an inch at 100 yards.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/jcole_08/thebeast.jpg

Matthew Courtney
09-30-2012, 16:37
I would consider a 20 inch barrel, medium or heavy profile for a long range AR15 setup. I have a Rock River Arms Varmint 20 bull barrel upper on my SPR build, and it will group ANY ammo that will fit into the magazine less than an inch at 100 yards.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/jcole_08/thebeast.jpg


Everybody does not shoot one shot groups!:tongueout:

Mayhem like Me
09-30-2012, 17:21
I would go with the 16 inch med con barrel and a Noveske NR rail for lightweight shooter.
Rainier, Noveske, Lothar Walther and White oak all have 16 inch barrels in 1x7/1x8 that would fit your criteria, I would suggest a wylde chamber or the similar Noveske match chamber.

You will be able to hit out to 500, but you will be needing a nice clear glass.

avenues165
09-30-2012, 17:23
Again, thanks for all of the replies!

While I appreciate the suggestion, a 20" barrel is out. I would consider a 20" if I was strictly looking for a long-range precision rifle. The best way to describe what I am looking for is to say I want easily-portable 5.56 precision. I am willing to sacrifice some precision for a lighter weight rig.

I have considered having an upper built around a Noveske 18" lightweight SS barrel. But, based on the responses and my research I think a 16" SS barrel will be ideal.

Plus, if I go with a 16" I have an excuse to build a 7.62 or .260 rem rifle for shooting past 500 yards:smoking:

My choices for an upper are either a BCM SS410 16" upper, a Centurion recon upper, or a custom build by Rainier. Which would you choose and why? Any better selections for my budget?

avenues165
09-30-2012, 17:27
I would go with the 16 inch med con barrel and a Noveske NR rail for lightweight shooter.
Rainier, Noveske, Lothar Walther and White oak all have 16 inch barrels in 1x7/1x8 that would fit your criteria, I would suggest a wylde chamber or the similar Noveske match chamber.

You will be able to hit out to 500, but you will be needing a nice clear glass.

Yes sir! I have yet to select glass, but realize it is not something to cheap out on. Would love to put a Nightforce on it:supergrin:

Cole125
09-30-2012, 17:31
Fair enough, my RRA SPR is a dedicated shoot off the bed of the truck at ground squirrels set up. I don't care how heavy it is, I'm not walking around with it. I've got other ARs for that.

Anyway I get the picture of what you want and I would look into a Noveske Rouge Hunter upper. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/442743/noveske-ar-15-rogue-hunter-a3-flat-top-upper-assembly-556x45mm-nato-1-in-7-twist-18-barrel-stainless-steel-with-nsr-free-float-handguard-flash-hider

faawrenchbndr
09-30-2012, 17:33
My choices for an upper are either a BCM SS410 16" upper, a Centurion recon upper, or a custom build by Rainier. Which would you choose and why? Any better selections for my budget?


BCM,.....every day of the week & twice on Sunday!
Quality products
Customer Service is outstanding

Mayhem like Me
09-30-2012, 17:33
Yes sir! I have yet to select glass, but realize it is not something to cheap out on. Would love to put a Nightforce on it:supergrin:

Have Rainier build you a 16 inch medium contour upper with one of their Ultramatch 16 inch barrels and a Noveske NR rail. You will have light, super strong upper, from a great company.

I cannot say enough about their barrels, excellent quality, I re-barreled two agency SBRs with the 12.5 Ultrmatchs' and they shoot about 1 moa with an Aimpoint..

NeverMore1701
09-30-2012, 18:46
I went with a 20" heavy barreled upper for my varmint build, precisely because I have no intention of ever lugging it around on foot. If I ever thought I'd be carrying it I'd likely switch to a medium contour 18" barrel, and maybe drop down to an 11" handguard.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4duAqp7FySM/UGSWgr0MyWI/AAAAAAAABW8/Tso2dcH-5CA/s1600/IMG_0505.JPG

Mayhem like Me
09-30-2012, 19:22
I went with a 20" heavy barreled upper for my varmint build, precisely because I have no intention of ever lugging it around on foot. If I ever thought I'd be carrying it I'd likely switch to a medium contour 18" barrel, and maybe drop down to an 11" handguard.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4duAqp7FySM/UGSWgr0MyWI/AAAAAAAABW8/Tso2dcH-5CA/s1600/IMG_0505.JPG

Nice looking stick!

Javelin
09-30-2012, 19:43
Shorter the better.

Big Bird
09-30-2012, 19:58
For your stated needs (500 yards) you'll want as much barrel as you can buy. For a self defense carbine out to 200 yards--16" is fine.

But at 500 yards you'll want the added velocity that the longer tube buys. Its not that you can't punch paper with a 16" tube. Its the wind and the ft lb's of energy to do work required at that range. Trust me on this. 16" barrels SUCK at 500 yards and really for much beyond 200.

You need to be running 70-77 grain match bullets and a LONG barrel.

avenues165
09-30-2012, 20:03
Nice looking stick!

I agree, very nice! I really like the VTAC handguard on that bad boy, and it looks like a shooter! BTW, the lower I'll be putting the upper in question on will be a Spikes lower.

All great suggestions, I appreciate the responses.

I have considered the Rainier Ultramatch 16 and 18" upper along with the BCM and Centurion. All would be winners, but I am leaning hard towards the BCM with a VTAC Alpha handguard. Rainier is a great outfit that receives nothing but praise for their customer service, but so does BCM. The price point on the BCM is a little better, and I have read many accounts of legitimate 5 shot sub-MOA groups with their SS barrels.

Now time to run the numbers (money) and see which direction to go. But, keep the suggestions coming, I like to hear what everyone thinks about these types of rifles (recce, recon, SPRs, SAM-Rs, etc.).

NeverMore1701
09-30-2012, 20:18
Nice looking stick!

Thanks, I'm very happy with it :cool:


I agree, very nice! I really like the VTAC handguard on that bad boy, and it looks like a shooter! BTW, the lower I'll be putting the upper in question on will be a Spikes lower.

All great suggestions, I appreciate the responses.

I have considered the Rainier Ultramatch 16 and 18" upper along with the BCM and Centurion. All would be winners, but I am leaning hard towards the BCM with a VTAC Alpha handguard. Rainier is a great outfit that receives nothing but praise for their customer service, but so does BCM. The price point on the BCM is a little better, and I have read many accounts of legitimate 5 shot sub-MOA groups with their SS barrels.

Now time to run the numbers (money) and see which direction to go. But, keep the suggestions coming, I like to hear what everyone thinks about these types of rifles (recce, recon, SPRs, SAM-Rs, etc.).

If I had the extra money to spend and patience to wait for it to come back in stock, I'd have gone with this upper instead:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-Rifle-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-18%20ss410%20vtrx13.htm
But I don't, so I didn't.

Mayhem like Me
09-30-2012, 20:37
The V-TAC Alpha is a solid choice in that size.
make sure you post up some pics when you decide.

Cole125
09-30-2012, 21:52
If I had the extra money to spend and patience to wait for it to come back in stock, I'd have gone with this upper instead:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-Rifle-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-18%20ss410%20vtrx13.htm
But I don't, so I didn't.

Yeah thats how all my AR builds end up, wish I should have got this or that instead... :rofl:

That is a sweet SPR build you have, no question.

NeverMore1701
09-30-2012, 21:53
I don't necessarily wish I had gotten that, more of "in a perfect world" deal. I'm happy spending less and having it now :supergrin:

avenues165
10-01-2012, 18:20
Can't quite figure BCM out. It seems like the uppers are in stock for just a few days and then back out of stock for very long periods of time. The last time I was seriously looking at an SPR-style upper they were all out on the BCM website. Kept waiting for one to come back in stock, I had even allowed myself a number of uppers that would work for a "back up." I finally decided to buy a pistol instead of an upper:smoking:

Cole125
10-01-2012, 19:40
Give Rainier Arms a shot, you will be glad you did.

AK_Stick
10-01-2012, 23:43
Shorter the better.


Now I know you own some NICE rifles.



But would you really suggest a 16 inch tube for 400-500+ yd shooting?



I know, I've seen some shooting that showed that shorter, stiffer barrels were more accurate, but judging soley upon distance he's intending to shoot, I would think a 18-20 inch would offer a bit more precision?


Fairly interested to hear your and BB's reply's.

Clutch Cargo
10-02-2012, 04:02
Hardly a difference. If you are going 18" might as well go 20" "standard" style.

I concur as I've just not seen much difference in 16" and 18" barrels in the field. Either go with 20" or keep it light as possible with a 16"

avenues165
10-02-2012, 23:37
All of the input is very much appreciated. Here is what I gather from the replies:

16" - best bet for light, not ideal for the longer end of my 100-500 yard range

18" - gain 30-40 yards on the 16"; middle of the road (kinda like the .40 S&W).

20" - heavier, much better suited for the longer end of my range.

Because this may (hopefully) wear a can in the future I think the 20" is not an option.

I think I have some more research to do. I can say that looking at ballistics tables has been very helpful. Thanks for all of the input!

TattooedGlock
10-03-2012, 13:15
14.5 or 16

avenues165
10-09-2012, 00:42
Well guys, unfortunately some unexpected car repairs have set me back ~2 months on my AR budget, so no new upper for a little while. I do have to say the responses I got were very helpful, and my plan will be to go with a 16" barrel. Here are my reasons:

1. I have realized that going out beyond 500 yards will be extremely rare. If I choose to shoot longer I will be moving to a bigger cartridge, at least a .243, but probably something like .260 rem or .308.

2. I have ruled out a 20" barrel. Just more length and weight than I want. I am only using this future gun to shoot for fun, no hunting or SHTF where I need to worry about velocity and KE for effective killing/stopping.

3. I really only gain ~30-40 yards with an 18" barrel over a 16" barrel. I value the ability to carry the rifle due to lighter weight more than the 30-40 yards I will gain.

4. I do not want a pinned muzzle device that would be required with a 14.5" barrel. I prefer my first stamp to be for a 5.56 suppressor.

I will be using either BCM or Rainier for the upper, these two companies seem to be the best fit for me.

There is nothing wrong with any of the lengths or products suggested in this thread, and I appreciate the variety of responses I received. I also appreciate the photos posted, nice sticks! Thanks everyone!

TheBelly
10-09-2012, 09:03
For your stated needs (500 yards) you'll want as much barrel as you can buy. For a self defense carbine trying to hit a person-sized target out to 600 yards--anything longer than 12" is fine.

fixed it for you