How about some new divisions? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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pistolcompetitor
10-02-2012, 08:14
I sent this e-mail to glock.us but I'm wondering if anyone's shot with something other than their strong, two-hand grip. Anyone tried, one hand, weak hand shooting, or even mirror image? Obviously it's not to win the match, but to challenge yourself with your shooting skills.

Would be nice, though for GSSF to create these divisions, so that people can see how they do against others who choose to do it the same way. The only way to do a weak hand division is that the person will have had to have shot a regular division, so that GSSF can know the difference. Everybody wins though-- more fun, more range time, a little more $ for GSSF. More time for the RO's, but I'm always appreciative of that FWIW.

S.Kargoh
10-02-2012, 08:33
Glock Shoot, One Handed, GSSF WA 2012 - YouTube



Done it one handed with strong hand (vid above ,Bremerton match 21012, master stock score 117.xx )

And two handed with weak hand (portland 2011 comp div).

Don At PC
10-02-2012, 15:30
I would be totally against your suggestion for GSSF. My reasons are:
1. Too many folks already who do NOT know the basic safe handling of a weapon.
2. Too many folks already who do NOT know how handle or manipulate a weapon.

I worked the recent Conyers Match and I observed/corrected folks who:
1. Just did not want to wear eye protection on the active range.
2. Pulled their weapon out of their range bag well behind the sign-in table and then proceeded to walk up to the line with their weapon in hand like it was a piece of candy being offered to everyone.
3. Folks who didn't know how to lock the slide open, didn't know how to take a mag out, didn't know they couldn't load 15 rounds in the gun and shoot all 15.

Let me also state that these were not KIDS learning to shoot, they were adults ranging from mid 20's to late 60's. Until folks shooting GSSF Matches show more responsibility for Basic SAFE gun handling and the coarse rules which are located almost everywhere we do not need any additional accidents waiting for a place to happen. I love shooting GSSF and work several matches every year but in the last couple years I have seen an increase of too many folks who jjust don't belong in a competition with several hundred other competitors with a deadly weapon in their possession. I know we have a lot of new shooters who have to learn but knowledge of Basic Safety should be First before they compete.

Don

mike g35
10-02-2012, 15:59
I would be totally against your suggestion for GSSF. My reasons are:
1. Too many folks already who do NOT know the basic safe handling of a weapon.
2. Too many folks already who do NOT know how handle or manipulate a weapon.

I worked the recent Conyers Match and I observed/corrected folks who:
1. Just did not want to wear eye protection on the active range.
2. Pulled their weapon out of their range bag well behind the sign-in table and then proceeded to walk up to the line with their weapon in hand like it was a piece of candy being offered to everyone.
3. Folks who didn't know how to lock the slide open, didn't know how to take a mag out, didn't know they couldn't load 15 rounds in the gun and shoot all 15.

Let me also state that these were not KIDS learning to shoot, they were adults ranging from mid 20's to late 60's. Until folks shooting GSSF Matches show more responsibility for Basic SAFE gun handling and the coarse rules which are located almost everywhere we do not need any additional accidents waiting for a place to happen. I love shooting GSSF and work several matches every year but in the last couple years I have seen an increase of too many folks who jjust don't belong in a competition with several hundred other competitors with a deadly weapon in their possession. I know we have a lot of new shooters who have to learn but knowledge of Basic Safety should be First before they compete.

Don
^^^ This. Well said Don.




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unclebob
10-02-2012, 16:00
To add what Don wrote. We also had one that did not even know in what direction to put the magazine in the gun. No it was not nerves.
Also had one individual even after repeated warnings to watch his direction of point the muzzle. Turned to me and said it wasn’t loaded.

ron59
10-02-2012, 16:05
Let's add some other new divisions, I have a few suggestions too:

1. Shooting while balancing a pickle on your head
2. Shooting while drinking a shot of J.D. between strings of fire
3. Standing on one leg while wearing a pink tu tu

Nah, let's just stick with what GSSF has, they make good sense to me.

S.Kargoh
10-02-2012, 16:08
Safety is paramount. Everyone is responsible for safety-- beginners, other competitors, range officials.

This does not change regardless of number of hands used.


The end.

ede
10-02-2012, 16:50
Let's add some other new divisions, I have a few suggestions too:

1. Shooting while balancing a pickle on your head
2. Shooting while drinking a shot of J.D. between strings of fire
3. Standing on one leg while wearing a pink tu tu

Nah, let's just stick with what GSSF has, they make good sense to me.

Ron's it's guys like you that stick to the "that's the way we always did it" line. You need to be a little more progressive thinking.
I'd like to see a division where the shooter needs to run 3 miles and then step up to the line and shoot. I bet that would cut down on entries and wait times to shoot.

ron59
10-02-2012, 17:30
Ron's it's guys like you that stick to the "that's the way we always did it" line. You need to be a little more progressive thinking.
I'd like to see a division where the shooter needs to run 3 miles and then step up to the line and shoot. I bet that would cut down on entries and wait times to shoot.

I like your thinking Ed.

kyglockshooter 2.0
10-02-2012, 19:12
I would be totally against your suggestion for GSSF. My reasons are:
1. Too many folks already who do NOT know the basic safe handling of a weapon.
2. Too many folks already who do NOT know how handle or manipulate a weapon.

I worked the recent Conyers Match and I observed/corrected folks who:
1. Just did not want to wear eye protection on the active range.
2. Pulled their weapon out of their range bag well behind the sign-in table and then proceeded to walk up to the line with their weapon in hand like it was a piece of candy being offered to everyone.
3. Folks who didn't know how to lock the slide open, didn't know how to take a mag out, didn't know they couldn't load 15 rounds in the gun and shoot all 15.

Let me also state that these were not KIDS learning to shoot, they were adults ranging from mid 20's to late 60's. Until folks shooting GSSF Matches show more responsibility for Basic SAFE gun handling and the coarse rules which are located almost everywhere we do not need any additional accidents waiting for a place to happen. I love shooting GSSF and work several matches every year but in the last couple years I have seen an increase of too many folks who jjust don't belong in a competition with several hundred other competitors with a deadly weapon in their possession. I know we have a lot of new shooters who have to learn but knowledge of Basic Safety should be First before they compete.

Don

I agree with your statement, at a match i was observing a guy with these cool sights and I was asking about them and he pulls the gun out of the holster (in the waiting area right after he got off the line) and handed it to his friend to walk to the truck to show me. I was unsure how to inform them of the massive rules they were breaking since im 20 and the gentlemen were my elders.

Also there was another incident where guys were clearly handling ammunition in the safe weapon zone. which again is a big no no. someone informed them of the no ammunition and they basically ignored him from my understanding. I'm not calling anyone out i let it remain anonymous for a reason, but these rules are there for yours and my safety. While you may not take your safety seriously, I do not take mine lightly if you cant follow the rules please do not attend. If your willing to do what is asked of you please attend.

S.Kargoh
10-02-2012, 22:18
So these safety concerns don't happen with two handed divisions? Itseema like the stories you've shared have nothing to do with firing grip. Rather general gun handling.

lethal tupperwa
10-03-2012, 06:49
just a BAD idea.

give it up.

youngann
10-03-2012, 07:53
Personally, I'd like to see Heavy Metal go to 7 rounds in the gun. They could still keep major Sub as it is, but having the larger heavy guns with 7 rounds would sure save some money on ammo.

unclebob
10-03-2012, 08:24
Personally, I'd like to see Heavy Metal go to 7 rounds in the gun. They could still keep major Sub as it is, but having the larger heavy guns with 7 rounds would sure save some money on ammo.

No thanks. That is the reason I don't like and most of the time do not shoot Maj Sub.

S.Kargoh
10-03-2012, 08:31
just a BAD idea.

give it up.



Let me rephrase the question.

Is unsafe gunhandling ok, as long as the divisions are normal two-handed firing grip?

pistolcompetitor
10-03-2012, 08:51
Nice video, S. Kargoh. I'm obviously with you on this one.

legacy38
10-03-2012, 08:52
I would prefer not to see division dilution.

youngann
10-03-2012, 09:15
No thanks. That is the reason I don't like and most of the time do not shoot Maj Sub.

:worried: Yeah, it is scary facing 6 plates when you know you only have 7 rounds in the gun.

lethal tupperwa
10-03-2012, 09:32
in the "old" days we only had 6

youngann
10-03-2012, 09:47
in the "old" days we only had 6

Yikes...I'm glad I'm not 'quite' that old. :whistling:

Noponer
10-03-2012, 10:34
in the "old" days we only had 6

In the really "old" days (June 27, 1992 - first match), there were only 4 divisions:

Civilian Amateur, Civilian-L (17 longslide), Out-of-Region, & Unlimited. The last 2 allowed civilian & law enforcement shooters. (Total of 160 entries)

Of course, there were no 34's or subcompacts then & no .40 caliber Glocks at all! The .45 GAP was far from being born then.

S.Kargoh
10-03-2012, 10:58
As far as division dilution goes, I'd make the arguement that competition and master stock are diluted versions of amciv (for a lot of shooters ).

They often are just used as warmups or even referred to as throw aways.


I'd say do away with competition, and master stock, and guardian.

Just have a stock division (any stock glock) open to masters and amateur and guardian, with prize awards to top3 of each of those.

Then the sub compact, heavy metal, unlimited. (eliminate major sub, they suck :D )

4 divisions. Boom.

One handed would make 5 (you can use any hand you want).
At least a one handed division would actually be different. As it is now, many people use just one gun and technique over several divisions. That seems pretty diluted to me.

Bonus points for safe handling. :)

Justin1911
10-03-2012, 13:11
How bout a "major sub weak hand only" division. GSSF would have to pay me $25 to shoot that!

Justin1911
10-03-2012, 13:14
In the really "old" days (June 27, 1992 - first match), there were only 4 divisions:

.

Dang you guys are old! I was 12 then :tongueout:

S.Kargoh
10-03-2012, 13:18
:worried: Yeah, it is scary facing 6 plates when you know you only have 7 rounds in the gun.

How bout a "major sub weak hand only" division. GSSF would have to pay me $25 to shoot that!


With plates shaped and sized as barn walls.

Noponer
10-03-2012, 17:51
Dang you guys are old! I was 12 then :tongueout:

Heyyyyy! :steamed:

Let a guy win 2nd place in the Gunny Challenge & he thinks he can say anything!

njl
10-03-2012, 18:46
I think if you wanted to do this, it would need to be limited to master class shooters in order to stack the odds in favor of the shooters being able to do it safely.

Also, consider how much this would slow things down. I'm far from a master, but I can shoot the plates in about 4s per rack when I'm doing well. If I were to do it one handed (or one handed weak hand) I'd probably take about 30s per run, leave some plates standing, and maybe send a few over the berm. Most of the entrants at GSSF matches just aren't up to the challenge and are doing well if they can safely get through the match shooting strong hand with both hands.

pistolcompetitor
10-03-2012, 23:17
OK. Safety, slowing down the entire match. I can see the reasons against. That's the great thing about GSSF-- brings new and seasoned shooters together. OK, maybe some people are just WAY too new and need to even learn the 4 rules. Just thought I'd throw it out there...

...but I'll have to try this one handed. FWIW the RO's won't have to worry about me compared to some of the people that Don at PC mentioned. Sharpshooter in IDPA here and still working on improving my skills. Hence the thread.

Comrade Bork
10-04-2012, 17:51
I sent this e-mail to glock.us but I'm wondering if anyone's shot with something other than their strong, two-hand grip. Anyone tried, one hand, weak hand shooting, or even mirror image? Obviously it's not to win the match, but to challenge yourself with your shooting skills.

Would be nice, though for GSSF to create these divisions, so that people can see how they do against others who choose to do it the same way. The only way to do a weak hand division is that the person will have had to have shot a regular division, so that GSSF can know the difference. Everybody wins though-- more fun, more range time, a little more $ for GSSF. More time for the RO's, but I'm always appreciative of that FWIW.

If you want to shoot one handed, venerable NRA 2700 is available to you.

If you want to shoot support hand only, USPSA and, I think, IDPA do from time to time.

GSSF is for NEW shooters; it is introductory competition shooting.

It is not the place to tempt them into trying things that do not much lend themselves to the primary purpose of the Glock firearm; their learining how to use it to defend their lives when that "bump" happens in the night.

Glock susidizes GSSF as it stands. GSSF is an advertising activity for Glock. It is a net expense; not a net income generator.


A new Division requires a budget for the new prizes, over the 44 matches on the current schedule.

44 new Guns. 44 new $100 second place awards. 44 new $75 3rd place awards.

TIMES TWO. Amateur AND Master! 88 x guns, 88 x $100, 88 x $75.

How in the name of Gaston Glock do you expect Gaston Glock to lose even more money to support one-hand or support-hand, or backwards-over-the-shoulder-sighting-with-a-mirror or what have you Annie Oakley stunt shooting?

:dunno:

S.Kargoh
10-04-2012, 18:03
I have seen plenty of defense and police shootings in which one or more hands were struck with bullets. It is valuable to practice with one hand.

That is the only reason I do so.

njl
10-04-2012, 18:12
I have seen plenty of defense and police shootings in which one or more hands were struck with bullets. It is valuable to practice with one hand.

That is the only reason I do so.

As has already been said, if you want a competitive shooting venue that simulates defensive shooting, there's IDPA. GSSF is a mix of really good/experienced shooters, intermediate shooters, and people who just learned how to spell Glock. It's not the place to get crazy with handicapping rules.

S.Kargoh
10-04-2012, 18:44
Yeah, I want to do those ypes of comps eventually. Just don't know anything about where they are or how to get started.

ny practice I can get (including gssf ) I am up for.

bustedknee
10-04-2012, 19:14
Warning! If you have no sense of humor - move along, nothing to see here.

We used to play snowshoe softball when I lived in Alaska.

Rules
1 Play on snow.
2 All players must wear snowshoes.
3 Each base runner must consume a full beer before advancing to the next base.
4 All balls were spray painted florescent colors (softballs!).


I propose we convert the rules of snowshoe softball to GSSF, hereafter to be known as Noshoe GSSF.

Rules
1 Instead of snow, the shoot will be held on sand (or in a coal mine) and all shooters must wear heavy parkas and no shoes.
2 Each shooter must consume a ice cold beer or bourbon shot before each round of each stage. 3 shots at Glock M, 3 shots at 5 to Glock, and 4 shots at the Plates.
3 Any shooter desiring to re-shoot a stage must move to the end of the line. No extra range fee charged.
4 Shooters in multiple categories must bring a designated wagon puller to the match. (To haul their drunk butt to the car.)
6 In the interest of keeping things moving, scores will be assessed and retained by each individual shooter.
7 In place of range officers each stage will be manned by 3 bartenders.
8 For any shooter that cannot walk to his car unassisted - All balls will be painted a permanent fluorescent color.


:animlol: