Afghanistan Poised to Fall [Archive] - Glock Talk

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evlbruce
10-02-2012, 18:03
The make-believe peace talks in Qatar finally fold. ('http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/world/asia/us-scales-back-plans-for-afghan-peace.html?hp&_r=0') The Taliban stands ready to sweep aside Karzai's unpopular government the moment US leaves the country in two years or so.

2000 deaths of US service personnel in Afghanistan and what did we accomplish?

PaulMason
10-02-2012, 18:07
Just like Vietnam.

Clutch Cargo
10-02-2012, 18:30
Just like Vietnam.

Sad, but so very true

FLIPPER 348
10-02-2012, 18:31
We should have never let up and invaded Iraq the 2nd time.

The Machinist
10-02-2012, 18:44
2000 deaths of US service personnel in Afghanistan and what did we accomplish?
Our generals and politicians got to experiment with their theories a bit more, and indulge their fantasies. Winning wasn't actually the goal. America hasn't been in the business of winning wars for sixty seven years.

Gundude
10-02-2012, 18:47
2000 deaths of US service personnel in Afghanistan and what did we accomplish?It's hard to say without knowing what the goals were. Anybody happen to have a list of those?

wrenrj1
10-02-2012, 19:09
Hind site is 20/20. Back in 2001/2002 did you all feel that way? I'll say that I did. We lost focus on Afghanistan, we didn't go in an do a job, clean house, find the bad guys, and leave, but we decided to enter into nation building. We're still in that mode with the current administration.

Being retired military myself I totally support our military, but I've come to the conclusion that this is a conflict we can't resolve. Let's stop losing blood (first and foremost) and treasure for this piece of realestate.

Glock30Eric
10-02-2012, 19:11
Ron Paul was right at first place. Obama, Romney are idiots as they want to keep going after them. Especially with Romney going after Iran over Israel.

azatrox
10-02-2012, 19:29
Ron Paul was right at first place. Obama, Romney are idiots as they want to keep going after them. Especially with Romney going after Iran over Israel.

Been drinking? :dunno:

jdavionic
10-02-2012, 20:14
"Perhaps they should not use live ammo like the Marines in Libya"

joe_rkba
10-02-2012, 20:17
On any measures that are primarily based on how the war helps ordinary Americans -

Afghanistan was a failure.
Iraq was a failure.
And I saw a poll suggesting that a majority of Americans support war with Iran.

How ****ing dumb are we??? Oh wait, we elected a socialist, and his challenger is a fascist. Says it all.

walt cowan
10-03-2012, 07:05
so who will now control the worlds poppy's crop?

JFrame
10-03-2012, 07:15
As noted in the OP, clearly the Taliban is ready to step back in and fill the void.


.

Bren
10-03-2012, 07:57
The make-believe peace talks in Qatar finally fold. ('http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/world/asia/us-scales-back-plans-for-afghan-peace.html?hp&_r=0') The Taliban stands ready to sweep aside Karzai's unpopular government the moment US leaves the country in two years or so.

2000 deaths of US service personnel in Afghanistan and what did we accomplish?

So the Taliban haven't been able to accomplish anything significant in the last 11 years, and in all that time they have only managed to kill 2,000 soldiers (compare that to nearly 60,000 in Vietnam, most during a similar time-span), but now they are going to "sweep aside" the opposition?

You have no clue what's going on in Afghanistan. If the Taliban really concentrated their efforts, they couldn't even "sweep aside" the airfield in Kandahar (which they would have done already, if they had the ability). Even Kandahar is safe enough that they now conduct basic training of new ANA soldiers there.

In short, that post is ridiculous.:upeyes:

Bren
10-03-2012, 08:00
Just like Vietnam.

As the death-toll indiciates, the enemy in Afghanistan is pretty insignificant compared to the Chinese-backed North Vietnamese. If the only enemy in Vietnam had been the VC, you might be right. Since they weren't, you aren't even close.

PaulMason
10-03-2012, 08:05
So the Taliban haven't been able to accomplish anything significant in the last 11 years, and in all that time they have only managed to kill 2,000 soldiers (compare that to nearly 60,000 in Vietnam, most during a similar time-span), but now they are going to "sweep aside" the opposition?

You have no clue what's going on in Afghanistan. If the Taliban really concentrated their efforts, they couldn't even "sweep aside" the airfield in Kandahar (which they would have done already, if they had the ability). Even Kandahar is safe enough that they now conduct basic training of new ANA soldiers there.

In short, that post is ridiculous.:upeyes:

I think your post might be the ridiculous one. You are talking like this is WWII - Germans Vs the USA. The Taliban don't need to take over any US installation or need the power to do so. The Taliban know when the US is going to leave, so they just wait and get their people into position.

Like in Vietnam - the Taliban is playing the long game and the US the short game. All the Taliban has to do is wait until the US leaves.

Like in Vietnam the N.V got their butt kicked in the 1968 Tet offensive but the US political will changed and was on its way out but the NV stuck it out and got the country.

MZBKA
10-03-2012, 08:08
The war in Afghanistan was quickly won and the country was mostly stabilized.

Then some idiots decided it was a good idea to divert resources from the war on terror to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Now Iraq is an ally of Iran and after more than a decade, Afghanistan looks poised again to be a terrorist haven after we retreat.

All I can say is I hope the people who supported the War in Iraq can keep their mouths shut on foreign policy from now on.

PaulMason
10-03-2012, 08:18
The war in Afghanistan was quickly won and the country was mostly stabilized.

Then some idiots decided it was a good idea to divert resources from the war on terror to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Now Iraq is an ally of Iran and after more than a decade, Afghanistan looks poised again to be a terrorist haven after we retreat.

All I can say is I hope the people who supported the War in Iraq can keep their mouths shut on foreign policy from now on.

Iran is next but, I don't think (hope) the USA will be on the ground there.

Somehow or someway the US will be in that region for awhile. There are large bases there and the Europeans are weak. They couldn't even take care of Libya without the USA's help.

FLIPPER 348
10-03-2012, 08:27
Hind site is 20/20. Back in 2001/2002 did you all feel that way? I'll say that I did. .


Yep...

FLIPPER 348
10-03-2012, 08:28
The war in Afghanistan was quickly won and the country was mostly stabilized.

Then some idiots decided it was a good idea to divert resources from the war on terror to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Now Iraq is an ally of Iran and after more than a decade, Afghanistan looks poised again to be a terrorist haven after we retreat.

All I can say is I hope the people who supported the War in Iraq can keep their mouths shut on foreign policy from now on.


Best posting on GT so far this year.

happyguy
10-03-2012, 08:35
Well, we could bomb them back into the Stone Age. Wait a minute...they ARE in the Stone Age.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

series1811
10-03-2012, 11:44
It's going to be Vietnam, 1975, all over again. The trick will be to actually get our last guys out before the Taliban takes back control.

coastal4974
10-03-2012, 13:50
You mean all those American lives were lost and ruined for nothing?

Whoda thunk it???? :dunno:

 

 

We need to bring them all home, we canít win a war. Americanís die for nothing.

janice6
10-03-2012, 13:55
2000 will have died for nothing.

happyguy
10-03-2012, 14:15
The war in Afghanistan was quickly won and the country was mostly stabilized.

Then some idiots decided it was a good idea to divert resources from the war on terror to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Now Iraq is an ally of Iran and after more than a decade, Afghanistan looks poised again to be a terrorist haven after we retreat.

All I can say is I hope the people who supported the War in Iraq can keep their mouths shut on foreign policy from now on.

OMG! I agree with MZBKA :shocked:

IMO the war in Afgahnistan should have had a single goal. The extermination of the Taliban and resident AQ. Repeat as necessary. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Bren
10-03-2012, 14:18
I think your post might be the ridiculous one. You are talking like this is WWII - Germans Vs the USA. The Taliban don't need to take over any US installation or need the power to do so. The Taliban know when the US is going to leave, so they just wait and get their people into position.


You are correct. I overlooked the "when the US leaves" part and stopped at them being "ready to sweep aside" the Karzai gov. That's why my example is about their inability to overrun a US FOB. When the US leaves I don't doubt that a boy scout troop and some trained monkeys could take over Afghanistan, assuming no outside intervention.

MZBKA
10-03-2012, 14:30
OMG! I agree with MZBKA :shocked:

IMO the war in Afgahnistan should have had a single goal. The extermination of the Taliban and resident AQ. Repeat as necessary. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

:beer:

PaulMason
10-03-2012, 14:34
You are correct.

Thank you Bren. It is rare that is said on GT.

Have a great day!

Gundude
10-03-2012, 18:17
You are correct. I overlooked the "when the US leaves" part and stopped at them being "ready to sweep aside" the Karzai gov. That's why my example is about their inability to overrun a US FOB. When the US leaves I don't doubt that a boy scout troop and some trained monkeys could take over Afghanistan, assuming no outside intervention.The Soviet Union couldn't do it, the US couldn't do it, but a boy scout troop and some trained monkeys could do it?

FLIPPER 348
10-03-2012, 22:26
2000 will have died for nothing.


Sadly, they already have.

RyanBDawg
10-03-2012, 22:38
Our generals and politicians got to experiment with their theories a bit more, and indulge their fantasies. Winning wasn't actually the goal. America hasn't been in the business of winning wars for sixty seven years.

Fact..

Bren
10-04-2012, 05:08
The Soviet Union couldn't do it, the US couldn't do it, but a boy scout troop and some trained monkeys could do it?

The US and Soviets both could do it and neither could be pushed out by Afghan/insurgent military force. The soviets were pushed out by the U.S. and money. The U.S. will be pushed out by money and the media. Neither faced any significant military challenge. The real history of Afghanistan is that anybody can take it, but, as the British intended when they drew the map, nobody really wants it. So their own economic needs, or another real foreign power, can easily make them leave.

Want an example? The Taliban are the example. Taliban is a pshtun word for "students" because they were students from religious schools who came to Afghanistan without significant numbers, training or equipment and, literally, starting without a few hundred guys, took the entire country over from warlords who had been fighting since the Soviets were there. Basically, they took the entire country away from experienced soldiers with better equipment and superior numbers, based on nothing but religious belief and brutality.

Gundude
10-04-2012, 10:27
The US and Soviets both could do it and neither could be pushed out by Afghan/insurgent military force. The soviets were pushed out by the U.S. and money. The U.S. will be pushed out by money and the media. Neither faced any significant military challenge. The real history of Afghanistan is that anybody can take it, but, as the British intended when they drew the map, nobody really wants it. So their own economic needs, or another real foreign power, can easily make them leave.So what was the point of staying there for 10+ years and being used as target practice for the locals? They can't claim hindsight when it was so obvious going in that this would happen

FFR Spyder GT
10-04-2012, 11:32
The make-believe peace talks in Qatar finally fold. ('http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/world/asia/us-scales-back-plans-for-afghan-peace.html?hp&_r=0') The Taliban stands ready to sweep aside Karzai's unpopular government the moment US leaves the country in two years or so.

2000 deaths of US service personnel in Afghanistan and what did we accomplish?

Not a freakin' thing except to bankrupt the United States of America.

Thanks Lil' George, Cheney and Halliburton!:steamed::steamed::steamed:

nursetim
10-04-2012, 11:46
I wonder, if we did like the soviets did in Afghanistan, would the Russians do like we did and arm the muj?

JFrame
10-04-2012, 12:13
I wonder, if we did like the soviets did in Afghanistan, would the Russians do like we did and arm the muj?

It's hard to say -- the geopolitical landscape is different than it was even a few short decades ago. Both Russia and China are worried about Islamic radicalism in some of their outlying satellite regions. I'm not sure they want to do anything to overtly foster that dynamic.


.

maxsnafu
10-04-2012, 18:07
All I can say is I hope the people who supported the War in Iraq can keep their mouths shut on foreign policy from now on.

Ain't gonna happen. They are now Romney's Middle East advisors. Neocons, like bad ideas, never go away.