Recent Glock Issues: Outsourcing Parts?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DaBurna
10-03-2012, 21:58
We've all read NUMEROUS TRHREADS on FTE, RTB, FTF issues etc....etc..... Glock PERFECTION is supposedly not what it once was. I recently talked with a LEO who just completed an Amorer's course for his department. The Glock representative would not confirm or deny but the thought is that Glock Inc. is outsourcing parts (extractors, ejectors, recoil springs) to smaller companies to try to cut costs. I know manufacturing is about costs, and ecomonies of scale but what have u guys heard?

Would Glock Jeopardize the brand for a few extra $$ in profit margin per gun?

SJ 40
10-04-2012, 01:01
I would question whether that they Glock would manufacture their springs but in todays world it would make sense that they would outsource some things.
I once worked for this big company that manufactured tractors, implements,construction equipment,over the road trucks even pickups.
They owned every subsidiary that manufactured every thing they used from valve guide seal,gaskets even door seals.
In 1984 they went out of business and sold off their lines, International Harvester,heck at one point in time they even manufactured refrigerators.

Glock seems to be having their problems,what ever the reason,and outsourcing and sloppy tolerances,quality control and cost cutting would explain it possibly. I don't think Glock will ever tell the public,although most IH employes had a clue that things weren't going well for IH long before the end. SJ 40

MikeG36
10-04-2012, 01:25
I would question whether that they Glock would manufacture their springs but in todays world it would make sense that they would outsource some things.
I once worked for this big company that manufactured tractors, implements,construction equipment,over the road trucks even pickups.
They owned every subsidiary that manufactured every thing they used from valve guide seal,gaskets even door seals.
In 1984 they went out of business and sold off their lines, International Harvester,heck at one point in time they even manufactured refrigerators.

Glock seems to be having their problems,what ever the reason,and outsourcing and sloppy tolerances,quality control and cost cutting would explain it possibly. I don't think Glock will ever tell the public,although most IH employes had a clue that things weren't going well for IH long before the end. SJ 40

+1 I agree. The jig is up!

DannyR
10-04-2012, 05:52
To my knowledge, Glock has never manufactured springs.

voyager4520
10-04-2012, 06:07
I suspect the supposedly "MIM" parts in current production Glocks may be made by Taurus. The extractors and locking blocks look like they're MIM to me, some have said the most recent firing pins are as well, the ones with notches at the muzzle end as caliber indicators instead of the old caliber markings on the rear of the firing pin.

MIM equipment is a decent size investment and most companies would rather outsource the parts, as well Taurus has often taken pride in saying that they make MIM parts for many other firearm manufacturers.

DocWills
10-04-2012, 06:34
It was and is common for american gun companies to sub out to other american gun companies. Except, glocks not on good terms with anyone and they would likely be the first choice.

Smith and ruger would be the main sources.

Wolff springs is a major american outsourcer, walter gets on with anyone.

Glock makes parts in huge quantity and sits on them. American companies with excess parts sell them off to numrich with a rider that they can rebuy the the remaining stock if they want it at a bulk rate. Saves on warehousing.

Glock parts interchangibility also saves money.

dhgeyer
10-04-2012, 07:26
I think all or most of the big gun companies are in a mode right now in which they are getting as much product out the door as fast as they can, and quality control is a secondary consideration. In the first place, they know they can sell everything they make right now. In the second place, they don't know if they will be able to sell product, or what products, after November. And, yes, I mean November and not January. This president has set an all time record for executive orders.

I think Glock will do anything it has to do to save a few cents per unit. The market drives this. There are a lot more choices out there, and they have to compete, and keeping prices in line is part of competition.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with MIM parts. They do, however, have to be made to correct specifications, just as they would if they were made by any other process.

My guess is that if Glock ordered tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of extractors and twenty percent of them didn't work consistently, they would not, in this environment, scrap the parts, or even the bad parts if they were identifiable. They would use the parts and ship the product and let the buyers do the QC. It's cheaper that way. And I don't think Glock is the only company that is in this mode by a long shot.

jbglock
10-04-2012, 07:40
I really doubt anyone from the company would tell you or anyone else if they were. I don't think the current problems have anything to do with outsourcing. Poor engineering is the real problem.

BBMW
10-04-2012, 15:25
If there's any particular part in a Glock you don't like, isn't it possible to buy an uprated version of anything in the aftermarket?

(And, yes, I know that isn't the point.)

brickboy240
10-04-2012, 15:51
Glock seems to be in a hurry to become the new SIG.

Where they once made wonderful guns you could trust and their newer ones are really hit and miss. If you want to be guaranteed a good Glock, you will have to seek out an older one. Otherwise you roll the dice on the newer Glocks. You might get a gem...you might not.

That seems to be their new business model!

LOL

elijah58
10-04-2012, 16:33
Out source, in source, up source, down source............. It doesn't matter to me, I still love my Glocks and plan to buy more in the future.
Eli

SJ 40
10-04-2012, 16:49
Glock seems to be in a hurry to become the new SIG.

Where they once made wonderful guns you could trust and their newer ones are really hit and miss. If you want to be guaranteed a good Glock, you will have to seek out an older one. Otherwise you roll the dice on the newer Glocks. You might get a gem...you might not.

That seems to be their new business model!

LOL:goodpost:
I will not buy new and by the way I Love and trust my Glocks,too bad the new Perfection is now spelled with a small p. SJ 40

Roering
10-04-2012, 17:49
Glock seems to be in a hurry to become the new SIG.

Where they once made wonderful guns you could trust and their newer ones are really hit and miss. If you want to be guaranteed a good Glock, you will have to seek out an older one. Otherwise you roll the dice on the newer Glocks. You might get a gem...you might not.

That seems to be their new business model!

LOL

Sorry to hear things have gone downhill for the company. The NEWEST Glock I own is a 2009 G23. Runs like a top.

Mattkcc
10-04-2012, 17:51
I must be lucky all my gen 2, 3 and 4th Glocks run just fine. I just run them nearly dry, like I was taught in the Glock Transition Course many years ago. Other then shoot them and clean them a few times a year I leave them alone. The only mods are NY1 & 3.5 connector. I have not heard of any grumbling from police departments running new Glocks. I think everyone should dump all their Glocks and mags on the used gun market. All us suckers could then pick these lousy guns on the cheap. I would love to trade my Kahr CM9 for one of these Glocks.

lsbbigdog
10-04-2012, 17:57
I just had a Gen4 19 in the shop . Wouldn't feed hollow points. I ended up replacing the followers on 3 of the customers mags to #6..Glock said they have never heard of any issues like that. The mags also didn't work in another Gen4 19 or 3rd Gen 19..

elijah58
10-04-2012, 18:47
I must be lucky all my gen 2, 3 and 4th Glocks run just fine. I just run them nearly dry, like I was taught in the Glock Transition Course many years ago. Other then shoot them and clean them a few times a year I leave them alone. The only mods are NY1 & 3.5 connector. I have not heard of any grumbling from police departments running new Glocks. I think everyone should dump all their Glocks and mags on the used gun market. All us suckers could then pick these lousy guns on the cheap. I would love to trade my Kahr CM9 for one of these Glocks.

:agree: I feel the same way, I think that if these lousy Glocks are dumped on the market there may be enough misinformed people like me that will pick them up to keep the factory running.
Eli

jbglock
10-04-2012, 19:21
I must be lucky all my gen 2, 3 and 4th Glocks run just fine. I just run them nearly dry, like I was taught in the Glock Transition Course many years ago. Other then shoot them and clean them a few times a year I leave them alone. The only mods are NY1 & 3.5 connector. I have not heard of any grumbling from police departments running new Glocks. I think everyone should dump all their Glocks and mags on the used gun market. All us suckers could then pick these lousy guns on the cheap. I would love to trade my Kahr CM9 for one of these Glocks.

My history...
1. gen1 17. Perfection.
2. gen2 23 and 23C (same gun/back then entire Glock slide assemblies could be bought pretty cheap still). Perfection.
3. gen3 23C. Perfection.
4. gen3 17. Perfection.
5. gen3 17C. Perfection.
6. gen4 17. Hate the RTF. The slide finish is not as durable. Getting holster wear I've never seen before now. Other than hating that... Perfection.

I've fixed a lot of problems on these gen4 guns by simply cleaning them, oiling them heavily, and when needed converting back to the old RSA and/or lightening the spring at the same time.

Glock had perfection. Currently they don't. I'm thinking by gen5 they will again. They dropped the stupid gills before. Maybe they will realize RTF should be dropped and stop releasing guns that are obviously untested.

voyager4520
10-05-2012, 11:19
If there's any particular part in a Glock you don't like, isn't it possible to buy an uprated version of anything in the aftermarket?

(And, yes, I know that isn't the point.)
As far as I know, the only Glock parts that are not made aftermarket are the locking block, trigger housing, magazine catch spring and slide lock spring.

I don't think aftermarket trigger bars are made either, every "custom" trigger w/trigger bar I know of uses an aftermarket trigger pad with a trigger bar made by Glock.

glockman9mm
10-05-2012, 11:31
When did they start with the MIM strikers and locking blocks??

voyager4520
10-05-2012, 11:35
The firing pins that are supposedly MIM have no caliber marking on the rear of them, they instead have notches at the muzzle end of the firing pin, one for 9mm, two for .40/.357/45GAP, and three for 10mm/45ACP.

The locking blocks that are supposedly MIM have a round bump on them. In the picture below, the one on top is the old investment cast locking block from I believe a Gen2. The one on bottom is supposedly MIM and it's in an RTF2 frame.
http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/malcolmw5626/glockRTF2_BLOCK.jpg

Both parts were changed to that around 2009, some models later than others. My Gen3 G27 with NRR prefix, Aug 2009 test fire still had the old investment cast locking block.

Glock23Man
10-05-2012, 11:53
Of course comments like this add needlessly to whatever hysteria is building. Obama doesn't want to be impeached and impeached he would be if he tried any executive orders re: guns. Many of you hysterics forget that Harry Reid has a NRA "A" rating, which is another reason slow your roll, because there is little chance that any legislation will make it through Congress.

This is not 1994. Attitudes about guns have changed and there is absolutely no political will to adopt new gun control laws. And remember only one guy in this race has ever signed off on any strict gun control legislation as an executive, including an "assault weapons ban," and that is Mitt Romney.


I think all or most of the big gun companies are in a mode right now in which they are getting as much product out the door as fast as they can, and quality control is a secondary consideration. In the first place, they know they can sell everything they make right now. In the second place, they don't know if they will be able to sell product, or what products, after November. And, yes, I mean November and not January. This president has set an all time record for executive orders.

dhgeyer
10-05-2012, 14:18
Of course comments like this add needlessly to whatever hysteria is building. Obama doesn't want to be impeached and impeached he would be if he tried any executive orders re: guns. Many of you hysterics forget that Harry Reid has a NRA "A" rating, which is another reason slow your roll, because there is little chance that any legislation will make it through Congress.

This is not 1994. Attitudes about guns have changed and there is absolutely no political will to adopt new gun control laws. And remember only one guy in this race has ever signed off on any strict gun control legislation as an executive, including an "assault weapons ban," and that is Mitt Romney.

Hysterics? Hardly! Obama is solidly anti second amendment civil rights and has a long standing record to prove it. He has issued lots of executive orders to get around Congress. One of the most in-your-face that comes to mind is the order to not enforce immigration laws against certain young illegals after Congress refused to pass the "Dream Act". That's just one example. There are many others. No, he would not be impeached if he did serious damage to our civil rights. No president has been successfully impeached. Second amendment civil rights is not the issue that would break that record. And Obama is already on record as telling the Russian Putin to wait till after the election when Obama will be freer to act on his own.

Check with the NRA website if you have doubts about the seriousness of this threat. Romney is no prize either. I know that. But I do think that Romney is more likely to try to work with Congress. And, as you say, Congress is not the threat. This year.

EDIT: My original comment was by way of expressing my perception of why gun companies are displaying less than stellar quality control of late. I may be right, I may be wrong. Either way, I was not attempting to start a political argument, which would be a thread hijack. This isn't the forum for politics.

SJ 40
10-05-2012, 14:30
Hysterics? Hardly! Obama is solidly anti second amendment civil rights and has a long standing record to prove it. He has issued lots of executive orders to get around Congress. One of the most in-your-face that comes to mind is the order to not enforce immigration laws against certain young illegals after Congress refused to pass the "Dream Act". That's just one example. There are many others. No, he would not be impeached if he did serious damage to our civil rights. No president has been successfully impeached. Second amendment civil rights is not the issue that would break that record. And Obama is already on record as telling the Russian Putin to wait till after the election when Obama will be freer to act on his own.

Check with the NRA website if you have doubts about the seriousness of this threat. Romney is no prize either. I know that. But I do think that Romney is more likely to try to work with Congress. And, as you say, Congress is not the threat. This year.

EDIT: My original comment was by way of expressing my perception of why gun companies are displaying less than stellar quality control of late. I may be right, I may be wrong. Either way, I was not attempting to start a political argument, which would be a thread hijack. This isn't the forum for politics.He has proven himself against the Constitution.Which by the way didn't he swear to uphold and defend. SJ 40

Glock23Man
10-05-2012, 14:32
You're exactly right!

.
EDIT: My original comment was by way of expressing my perception of why gun companies are displaying less than stellar quality control of late. I may be right, I may be wrong. Either way, I was not attempting to start a political argument, which would be a thread hijack. This isn't the forum for politics.

frontier2011
10-05-2012, 21:59
Glock seems to be in a hurry to become the new SIG.

Where they once made wonderful guns you could trust and their newer ones are really hit and miss. If you want to be guaranteed a good Glock, you will have to seek out an older one. Otherwise you roll the dice on the newer Glocks. You might get a gem...you might not.

That seems to be their new business model!

LOL


Well, they do have 60% market share so it seems they are doing something right. By the way, I have a G427 and it has been flawless. Glad I bought one.

Remington 870
10-06-2012, 07:48
Well said dhgeyer! i am with you.

AgentM79
10-07-2012, 11:10
Glock knows how to make guns that work. They did it for the better part of three generations, with a few small missteps along the way. I'm confident they can do it again.

I'd hate to think they are outsourcing parts to Taurus, though....