How Close is the Mid-East to the Breaking Point? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : How Close is the Mid-East to the Breaking Point?


DanaT
10-04-2012, 13:10
I know everyone is busy talking about Romney v Obama.

But on TV is Europe, the big news is the shelling of Turkey by Syria killing civilians. Turkey then returned fire for the last 36-48 hours and used artillery against the Syrian forces. Turkey's parliament then authorized the Turkish president to use forces in foreign countries if needed.

A UN ambassador is saying the Syrian war is spreading. The ambassador bluntly said there is no plan available to stop the war in Syria.

Then onto Iran. They are having a financial collapse. They arrested 16 people today for "currency speculation" and driving the currency down. The real problem isnt currency speculators, it is sanctions. The Iraniand are getting desperate and trying to blame even people inside Iran.

Back to Turkey. This is a NATO member. They are accusing Syria of arming rebels against Turkey. But to the NATO. The USA has a mutual defense pack with Turkey. We have agreements that if Turkey is attacked, we will come to the common defense. The USA could literally be HOURS away from a war if Turkey claims it is attacked and wants its allies to help its defense.

I just wonder aloud how close is the whole place to going up in fire?

raven11
10-04-2012, 13:24
by that logic we should have went to war with Syria already when Syria shot down that Turkish F-4 Recon aircraft flying inside Turkish airspace but to declare war the president and congress still have to sign off on it and I don't see us going to war this close to election time unless the Turks threaten to pull the plug on Incirlik AFB

besides the Turks already think we allow the Kurds to do cross-border raids and we haven't smashed the kurdish rebels yet

DanaT
10-04-2012, 13:26
by that logic we should have went to war with Syria already when Syria shot down that Turkish F-4 Recon aircraft flying inside Turkish airspace

The difference is this time Turkey is returning fire..

The F4 they didnt do anything..

Bren
10-04-2012, 13:29
I just wonder aloud how close is the whole place to going up in fire?

How close? You think it hasn't already broken? I'm pretty sure the "going up in fire" is well under way.

raven11
10-04-2012, 13:31
The difference is this time Turkey is returning fire..

The F4 they didnt do anything..


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18568207

they called a NATO meeting and invoked Article 4, while it doesn't mean much by the way of action does send a notice that the Turks are considering their options

blackjack
10-04-2012, 13:38
I just read an article on Free Republic stating exactly what Dana T posted. I read another article about wholesale gasoline becoming harder to buy in CA for the mom/pop outlets and some of the bigger guys, too.

I guess the Chinese guy who wrote that curse about living interesting times knew what he was talking about.

DanaT
10-04-2012, 13:38
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18568207

they called a NATO meeting and invoked Article 4, while it doesn't mean much by the way of action does send a notice that the Turks are considering their options

And todays response is more than considering their options

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/world/meast/syria-civil-war/?hpt=hp_t3

Glock20 10mm
10-04-2012, 14:03
I just read an article on Free Republic stating exactly what Dana T posted. I read another article about wholesale gasoline becoming harder to buy in CA for the mom/pop outlets and some of the bigger guys, too.

I guess the Chinese guy who wrote that curse about living interesting times knew what he was talking about.

Yup... Monday gas was $4.05 where I am... today when I came into work this morning I saw it was $4.39. That's a $0.34 jump in 3 days. Last night when I went home it was $4.21.

Atlas
10-04-2012, 14:21
Some who have been screaming that we need to bomb Iran will be happy no doubt with $8/gallon gas.

GAFinch
10-04-2012, 14:34
An actual war could spread fast - the 12th Imam cultists in Iran believe that a war among Arab states will trigger their messiah's return for an Armageddon and that Iran will lead his forces.

c6601a
10-04-2012, 14:35
Some who have been screaming that we need to bomb Iran will be happy no doubt with $8/gallon gas.There you go ruining their wet dreams by injecting reality and logical thinking in their lives.

c6601a
10-04-2012, 14:45
An actual war could spread fast - the 12th Imam cultists in Iran believe that a war among Arab states will trigger their messiah's return for an Armageddon and that Iran will lead his forces.Words of wisdom for you: It is better to stay quiet and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

The theology of Shia Islam is pretty clear that the time of the return of their 12th Imam is preordained. While one of the signs of end times according to them is "a fire" that starts in what is now the Middle East and engulfs the whole world, it does not mean that starting such a fire will hasten the end times.

Maybe you are dumb enough to think that setting your clock to 6:00 PM will cause the sun to go down immediately because the sun is supposed to go down at 6, most people have a little more logic. Especially when the same theology that predicts, more like promises, the event, it also says that one can not hasten or delay it.

Gallium
10-04-2012, 15:04
Words of wisdom for you: It is better to stay quiet and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

The theology of Shia Islam is pretty clear that the time of the return of their 12th Imam is preordained. While one of the signs of end times according to them is "a fire" that starts in what is now the Middle East and engulfs the whole world, it does not mean that starting such a fire will hasten the end times.

Maybe you are dumb enough to think that setting your clock to 6:00 PM will cause the sun to go down immediately because the sun is supposed to go down at 6, most people have a little more logic. Especially when the same theology that predicts, more like promises, the event, it also says that one can not hasten or delay it.


So if I understand you correctly, you are inserting "logic" in a discussion, citing a religion that is filled with many illogical practices and beliefs? :headscratch:

CAcop
10-04-2012, 15:09
I just read an article on Free Republic stating exactly what Dana T posted. I read another article about wholesale gasoline becoming harder to buy in CA for the mom/pop outlets and some of the bigger guys, too.

I guess the Chinese guy who wrote that curse about living interesting times knew what he was talking about.

I read it was a refinery issue for CA.

blackjack
10-04-2012, 15:13
I read it was a refinery issue for CA.

OK, I went back and read further in the article to get the details on the refinery issues. Thanks!

vart
10-04-2012, 15:37
Words of wisdom for you: It is better to stay quiet and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

The theology of Shia Islam is pretty clear that the time of the return of their 12th Imam is preordained. While one of the signs of end times according to them is "a fire" that starts in what is now the Middle East and engulfs the whole world, it does not mean that starting such a fire will hasten the end times.

Maybe you are dumb enough to think that setting your clock to 6:00 PM will cause the sun to go down immediately because the sun is supposed to go down at 6, most people have a little more logic. Especially when the same theology that predicts, more like promises, the event, it also says that one can not hasten or delay it.
Since you seem to be so aware of Islamic prophecy, then surely you know it is a common belief among the "Twelvers" that they are ordained to prepare the way for the Mahdi by waging war...

Iran's leader is a huge believer in this concept and has stated that Israel needs to be destroyed in order to usher in the coming of the twelfth imam.

So, the concern that some Muslims that are of a certain sect may want to start a major conflict in the ME to help usher in their "end times" is not what I would call "dumb".

c6601a
10-04-2012, 18:33
Since you seem to be so aware of Islamic prophecy, then surely you know it is a common belief among the "Twelvers" that they are ordained to prepare the way for the Mahdi by waging war...That is news to me. Never heard that one before. What is your source?
So, the concern that some Muslims that are of a certain sect may want to start a major conflict in the ME to help usher in their "end times" is not what I would call "dumb".Once again, let me restate what I wrote earlier. According to Islamic belief, the end times, which they basically call "the day of judgement", is preordained and any action by any individual or or group can neither hasten or delay it. That is pretty much part of the basic Islamic religious belief common to all sects.

The "Twelvers" elaborate on the events of the end times by adding the the Mahdi and Christ will appear as part of end times. The whole notion that making war or creating turmoil will hasten that contradicts the basic premise of that time.