New York State Police 45 GAP (Gold Dot 185 Grain?) Shooting [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Brooklyn123456
10-06-2012, 12:31
New York State



Cops say man killed in scuffle Thursday had a violent past
Trooper fired one shot from his handgun


TOWN OF NEWBURGH A man killed on Thursday during a fight with a state trooper had a history of violent confrontations with police officers.



The last battle for William "Curley" Baynes began about 7:40 p.m. Thursday on the side of Route 32 in the Town of Newburgh. State police Maj. Ed Raso said Trooper David Ruderfer had stopped a black 1993 Lexus that Baynes was driving. The alleged traffic offense wasn't clear on Friday.



State police and the Orange County District Attorney's Office are still investigating what happened next, but they say there was a physical fight between the men and Ruderfer fired one shot from his .45-caliber Glock handgun. Baynes collapsed on the pavement. He was pronounced dead a short time later at the Newburgh campus of St. Luke's Cornwall Hospital.



Baynes was 51. He'd returned to the City of Newburgh in 2008 after his latest stint in state prison on a drug conviction. Most of his later interaction with cops centered on narcotics, but he was a suspect in burglaries and other crimes in the early 1990s.



Friends saw a tenderness in him. He baked cakes for friends and asked about the well-being of loved ones, said Bonnie Herring, who'd known him for years.:rofl:



"I don't care what the police say or what the records say, he's good at heart," Herring said.




History of fights



Police knew him as an old-school fighter. One officer complained Baynes cracked his vertebrae in 1991 during a fight. Officers had responded to a harassment complaint and ended up in a brawl. They pressed assault charges, and Baynes countered with claims officers smashed his face into a brick wall and clubbed him. A jury dismissed the assault charges at trial.



Paul Weber remembers the day he saw Baynes leaving a neighbor's house with sacks-full of jewelry. Weber, a former college wrestler, was starting his career with Newburgh police at the time. Weber was off-duty, but he chased the bigger man for blocks on South Street before Baynes got tired of running.



"He just turns and squares off in the middle of the street," Weber said. "He fought like a champ, and I was right there with him."



A second man eventually called police from a pay phone and helped Weber hold Baynes until back-up arrived. Baynes was later convicted of second-degree burglary. Weber saw him years later on the Newburgh waterfront. He'd put on weight, looked like he'd kicked drugs and cleaned up his life, Weber said.



Weber has since retired from the police department and is a partner at a law firm in Cornwall, but he remembers clearly the fight with Baynes as the toughest of his life.



Trooper on leave

Raso, the state police major, said Ruderfer was banged up after Thursday night's encounter. A Town of Newburgh detective drove him to the Cornwall campus of St. Luke's, where he was treated for bumps and bruises and underwent X-rays on his arm.



Raso said they still don't know what started the fight. Ruderfer, a member of the K-9 unit and an Iraq combat veteran, has been placed on paid administrative leave pending an investigation. Thomas Mungeer, president of the New York Troopers Benevolent Association, said Ruderfer was lucky he didn't suffer life-threatening injuries during an incident that highlighted the dangerous, unpredictable nature of the job.



"The trooper was clearly in a fight for his life," Mungeer said.



The shooting unearthed old concerns for others, such as Baynes' friend, Herring.



She said the trooper could have taken Baynes into custody without killing him.



"They're just trying to make this wrong into a right," Herring said.

maximus1079
10-06-2012, 12:49
New York State



Cops say man killed in scuffle Thursday had a violent past
Trooper fired one shot from his handgun


TOWN OF NEWBURGH A man killed on Thursday during a fight with a state trooper had a history of violent confrontations with police officers.



The last battle for William "Curley" Baynes began about 7:40 p.m. Thursday on the side of Route 32 in the Town of Newburgh. State police Maj. Ed Raso said Trooper David Ruderfer had stopped a black 1993 Lexus that Baynes was driving. The alleged traffic offense wasn't clear on Friday.



State police and the Orange County District Attorney's Office are still investigating what happened next, but they say there was a physical fight between the men and Ruderfer fired one shot from his .45-caliber Glock handgun. Baynes collapsed on the pavement. He was pronounced dead a short time later at the Newburgh campus of St. Luke's Cornwall Hospital.



Baynes was 51. He'd returned to the City of Newburgh in 2008 after his latest stint in state prison on a drug conviction. Most of his later interaction with cops centered on narcotics, but he was a suspect in burglaries and other crimes in the early 1990s.



Friends saw a tenderness in him. He baked cakes for friends and asked about the well-being of loved ones, said Bonnie Herring, who'd known him for years.:rofl:



"I don't care what the police say or what the records say, he's good at heart," Herring said.




History of fights



Police knew him as an old-school fighter. One officer complained Baynes cracked his vertebrae in 1991 during a fight. Officers had responded to a harassment complaint and ended up in a brawl. They pressed assault charges, and Baynes countered with claims officers smashed his face into a brick wall and clubbed him. A jury dismissed the assault charges at trial.



Paul Weber remembers the day he saw Baynes leaving a neighbor's house with sacks-full of jewelry. Weber, a former college wrestler, was starting his career with Newburgh police at the time. Weber was off-duty, but he chased the bigger man for blocks on South Street before Baynes got tired of running.



"He just turns and squares off in the middle of the street," Weber said. "He fought like a champ, and I was right there with him."



A second man eventually called police from a pay phone and helped Weber hold Baynes until back-up arrived. Baynes was later convicted of second-degree burglary. Weber saw him years later on the Newburgh waterfront. He'd put on weight, looked like he'd kicked drugs and cleaned up his life, Weber said.



Weber has since retired from the police department and is a partner at a law firm in Cornwall, but he remembers clearly the fight with Baynes as the toughest of his life.



Trooper on leave

Raso, the state police major, said Ruderfer was banged up after Thursday night's encounter. A Town of Newburgh detective drove him to the Cornwall campus of St. Luke's, where he was treated for bumps and bruises and underwent X-rays on his arm.



Raso said they still don't know what started the fight. Ruderfer, a member of the K-9 unit and an Iraq combat veteran, has been placed on paid administrative leave pending an investigation. Thomas Mungeer, president of the New York Troopers Benevolent Association, said Ruderfer was lucky he didn't suffer life-threatening injuries during an incident that highlighted the dangerous, unpredictable nature of the job.



"The trooper was clearly in a fight for his life," Mungeer said.



The shooting unearthed old concerns for others, such as Baynes' friend, Herring.



She said the trooper could have taken Baynes into custody without killing him.



"They're just trying to make this wrong into a right," Herring said.
Yeah and lions lick their cubs but that doesn't make them any less of a predator. Why is there always someone who comes out of the woodwork to defend a scumbag who rapes women, kills children, or attacks law enforcement officials?? *shakes head*

PghJim
10-06-2012, 15:51
I know the PA State Police use the 45 GAP, but are you sure that NY does also? If so, there must be something in the water between the two states.

packinaglock
10-06-2012, 16:34
Yeah and lions lick their cubs but that doesn't make them any less of a predator. Why is there always someone who comes out of the woodwork to defend a scumbag who rapes women, kills children, or attacks law enforcement officials?? *shakes head*

Exactly!

ADK_40GLKr
10-06-2012, 17:36
I know the PA State Police use the 45 GAP, but are you sure that NY does also? If so, there must be something in the water between the two states.

I've talked with a number of NYSP who say .45 GAP model 37 is standard issue.

Remington 870
10-06-2012, 17:46
nys troopers carry the glock 37 loaded wth speer gold dot 200 grain loads.

Yankee2718
10-08-2012, 05:20
Yep, 200 grain gold dots. I think theirs are loaded a little hotter than the factory specs. I want to say I had read 1050 fps.

I like how old friend says that he could have taken him into custody without killing him. The guy was probably pushing the Trooper into the roadway, potentially making him a target for rubber-necking-non-driving-idiots. If that was the situation, I most surely would have done the same thing. I've been in a pretty decent fight on a traffic stop. If it wasn't in a driveway, the fight would have ended up in the roadway and who knows...

DannyR
10-08-2012, 05:42
NYSP may have been the first State Police Agency to adopt the G37. Others are PA, SC, FL and GA. 5 out of 50 is pretty good representation.:cool:

Advertised velocity is 970fps.

Remington 870
10-08-2012, 14:16
P.A adopted the model 37 first before New York. the NYSP changed guns due to several police involved shootings real close to one another. they felt the glock 17 was under powered. I feel it is a training issue and the fact that cops dont practice as mush as they need to. so they wasted thousands of New York state residents tax money and bought the glock 37's there was and article in the I think 2007/2008 Glock annual magizine that gives more facts about when,why they switched guns etc. It dont matter what caliber you shoot if you cant shoot and get good hits it dosen't matter what caliber you use.

Yankee2718
10-08-2012, 15:09
P.A adopted the model 37 first before New York. the NYSP changed guns due to several police involved shootings real close to one another. they felt the glock 17 was under powered. I feel it is a training issue and the fact that cops dont practice as mush as they need to. so they wasted thousands of New York state residents tax money and bought the glock 37's there was and article in the I think 2007/2008 Glock annual magizine that gives more facts about when,why they switched guns etc. It dont matter what caliber you shoot if you cant shoot and get good hits it dosen't matter what caliber you use.

The issue was shooting through cover. In 2006 several troopers were killed in the line of duty. One of them in a traffic stop attempting to shoot through a car while being shot at. IIRC, not all of the troopers rounds penetrated the car and hit the suspects. I do think they were using either standard pressure 124 gold dot or 147 gold dot. I think morale sucked so they decided to get bigger guns to make people feel good.

My dept is doing the same thing. No COL or merit/step raises since 08 but somehow we managed to buy everyone an M&P15 rifle.... Just boosting morale. I wouldn't doubt it if glock gave NYSP a sweet deal too. (we just bought new caprice cruisers too)

hunter won
10-08-2012, 18:01
The .45 GAP has been doing a fine job with agencies that use it.

Yankee2718
10-08-2012, 18:35
I've been thinking about getting a 37. Just can't figure out what I'd use it for.

SCmasterblaster
10-09-2012, 08:19
One-shot stop for the .45 GAP. I wonder why the trooper only fired one shot?

Yankee2718
10-09-2012, 09:25
One-shot stop for the .45 GAP. I wonder why the trooper only fired one shot?

The threat was probably stopped.

(the 45 GAP is what the 10mm dreams about at night)

In seriousness, this is the second or third one shot stops from NYSP since they switched.

200 grain bullets are overlooked by nearly every major manufacturer except for Speer. I think they offer better performance than 230grain.

SCmasterblaster
10-09-2012, 10:40
The threat was probably stopped.

(the 45 GAP is what the 10mm dreams about at night)

In seriousness, this is the second or third one shot stops from NYSP since they switched.

200 grain bullets are overlooked by nearly every major manufacturer except for Speer. I think they offer better performance than 230grain.

The .45 GAP must be a serious man-stopper. :cool:

Yankee2718
10-09-2012, 11:00
The .45 GAP must be a serious man-stopper. :cool:

So serious you can't even look at it without getting burned... The GAP is proving to be very effective.

Beware Owner
10-09-2012, 11:34
200 grain bullets are overlooked by nearly every major manufacturer except for Speer. I think they offer better performance than 230grain.

How does it perform better?

Yankee2718
10-09-2012, 11:48
How does it perform better?

Higher velocity, better penetration. Browning designed the ACP around a 200 grain slug. The Army upped it to 230 grains. The only reason we don't see a lot of it is due to popularity. The 230 is far more popular.

Check out tnoutdoors9's xtp videos. He tests the 200 gr xtp and 230 gr xtp. Both are +p (which is every other manufacturer's standard pressure). Both expanded the same; 200 gr made 17.5 inches, and the 230 made 14.5 inches. If you compare the "wound tract" the 200 gr seems to have churned things up a bit more than the 230.

Beware Owner
10-09-2012, 11:49
Higher velocity, better penetration. Browning designed the ACP around a 200 grain slug. The Army upped it to 230 grains. The only reason we don't see a lot of it is due to popularity. The 230 is far more popular.

Ok, thanks.

cowboy1964
10-09-2012, 14:09
200gr vs 230gr has nothing to do with GAP vs ACP. I hope I'm stating the obvious here.

Speer rates the 200gr GAP at 970 fps from a 5" barrel. Interestingly, the 200gr +P ACP is 1080 fps.

SCmasterblaster
10-09-2012, 18:20
200gr vs 230gr has nothing to do with GAP vs ACP. I hope I'm stating the obvious here.

Speer rates the 200gr GAP at 970 fps from a 5" barrel. Interestingly, the 200gr +P ACP is 1080 fps.

I used to CCW the Speer .45 ACP 200-gr JHP. Quite a loading.

Yankee2718
10-09-2012, 20:48
200gr vs 230gr has nothing to do with GAP vs ACP. I hope I'm stating the obvious here.

Speer rates the 200gr GAP at 970 fps from a 5" barrel. Interestingly, the 200gr +P ACP is 1080 fps.

That doesn't even make sense. This is not a GAP vs ACP thread.

SCmasterblaster
10-10-2012, 08:01
That the .45 GAP was so popular with LEOs. :cool:

Remington 870
10-10-2012, 14:01
From the Troopers I have spoke to the GAP shoot's softer and with less muzzle flip than
the 9mm. I would rather have the glock 17 loaded with speer gold dot 124 grain plus p. than 10 rounds of a not so much more powerful 45 gap. and just 20 more rounds for back up with the 2 spare mags they are issued. the glock 21sf would have been an even better choice in the 45 arena.

9mmdude
10-11-2012, 03:02
LMAO at all the calibre quarterbacking. I would say 1 shot, 1 stop; looks like the GAP did fine.

Tiro Fijo
10-11-2012, 09:29
From the Troopers I have spoke to the GAP shoot's softer and with less muzzle flip than
the 9mm...


I respectfully disagree. It recoils more than a 9mm Glock but is not as sharp as a hot .40 S&W per my experiences. However, it was the most accurate Glock that I have ever shot (G38). I think that has something to do with the octagonal rifling used in .45 cal Glocks, whether GAP or ACP.

SCmasterblaster
10-11-2012, 12:01
I respectfully disagree. It recoils more than a 9mm Glock but is not as sharp as a hot .40 S&W per my experiences. However, it was the most accurate Glock that I have ever shot (G38). I think that has something to do with the octagonal rifling used in .45 cal Glocks, whether GAP or ACP.

I respectfully disagree also. The 9mm bullet weighs half as much as the .45 bullet. Recoil is a function of bullet weight, mostly.

Remington 870
10-11-2012, 13:06
Just repeating what an actual trooper said. I dont own a glock 37 so I dont know personally sounds like a good platform but ammo is kinda hard to find around my area.

SCmasterblaster
10-12-2012, 13:51
Just repeating what an actual trooper said. I dont own a glock 37 so I dont know personally sounds like a good platform but ammo is kinda hard to find around my area.

Okay :cool:

A6Gator
10-13-2012, 08:20
Friends saw a tenderness in him. He baked cakes for friends and asked about the well-being of loved ones, said Bonnie Herring, who'd known him for years.

"I don't care what the police say or what the records say, he's good at heart," Herring said.

She said the trooper could have taken Baynes into custody without killing him.

Now I know why Barry is 6 points up in Nuevo York....

G17Gen4
10-13-2012, 11:59
Now I know why Barry is 6 points up in Nuevo York....

How does EVERY topic on here turn political?

HexHead
10-13-2012, 12:35
My very short list includes a G39. I love the idea of a .45 in a G26 size pistol.

Sounds like the perfect replacement for the Colt New Agent I used to have.

SCmasterblaster
10-13-2012, 14:18
How does EVERY topic on here turn political?

Because the important election is only three weeks away.

packinaglock
10-13-2012, 16:16
Because the important election is only three weeks away.

And our country is headed down the toilet if we don't vote that Jimmy Carter wanabe out.

SCmasterblaster
10-13-2012, 17:49
One shot. one stop. :supergrin::supergrin::supergrin::supergrin:

ADK_40GLKr
10-14-2012, 17:31
Just repeating what an actual trooper said. I dont own a glock 37 so I dont know personally sounds like a good platform but ammo is kinda hard to find around my area.

I picked up a Lee Press and dies to reload .45 for my new G38.

Unfortunately, I have to wait for the G38 to come back from Smyrna after being blown up by a WWB SQUIB!

SCmasterblaster
10-15-2012, 15:33
I picked up a Lee Press and dies to reload .45 for my new G38.

Unfortunately, I have to wait for the G38 to come back from Smyrna after being blown up by a WWB SQUIB!

WWB SQUIB? Sorry to hear that, brother. :upeyes: