Unprofessional cop with open carry activist [Archive] - Glock Talk

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frizz
10-07-2012, 03:23
When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rih1ogXCxAs&feature=endscreen

EDIT: No, I'm not serious. The cop did a great job.

Hack
10-07-2012, 04:40
Perhaps if you explain your question, and statement in detail.

Morris
10-07-2012, 04:45
Yay! I want people to look at me! I feel special!

Hack
10-07-2012, 04:46
Yay! I want people to look at me! I feel special!

Indeed.

3rdgen40
10-07-2012, 05:02
Professional,Courteous Police Officer deals with attention seekers.That's what the title of this thread should be.

Ducowti
10-07-2012, 06:27
The POV cameraman is a total doosh. That encounter probably had him running home to punch the clown to lingerie catalogs.


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Wonder140
10-07-2012, 06:35
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hack
10-07-2012, 06:40
I looked at the video. To me it looks like younguns going out for attention seeking. They got their attention from a professional who was being professional. Admittedly I have seen worse on YouTube.

beatcop
10-07-2012, 06:51
-I am recording you
-why are you carrying an AR-15 (downtown)

Nothing to see here folks, just attention seekers getting what they want.

Dukeboy01
10-07-2012, 07:04
What I saw was two civil libertardian d- bags being attention whores and the cop doing his best to to his job without aggravating the situation. What exactly was "unprofessional" in the video, frizz? Give us a time stamp or some specific quotes. Don't just post and run.

I stand by my original judgement of you in the first Coptalk thread you posted. You're a "concern troll." You're slicker and more low key than most of our trolls, but a troll all the same.

RussP
10-07-2012, 07:09
When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rih1ogXCxAs&feature=endscreenWhat is your purpose in posting this? It's a multiple choice question...


To pull cops into another OC contentious discussion with OCing GT members?


To pull OCers into Cop Talk to get into mud slinging contests with LE members?


To create another confrontation thread with cops and OCers going at each other?


Other ______________________________________

SGT HATRED
10-07-2012, 07:14
I'm thinking the OP's post was sarcasm. The police officer in the video was quite professional. What I don't understand is why the OCers didn't walk away when the cop gave them that option multiple times...

wprebeck
10-07-2012, 07:26
I'm thinking the OP's post was sarcasm. The police officer in the video was quite professional. What I don't understand is why the OCers didn't walk away when the cop gave them that option multiple times...

Because they're *********s, that's why.


For the record -

Nowhere in the Constitution is it written that one must be an absolute ******* in order to exercise one's right guaranteed under that document. Too many people, including a number on this board, feel that confrontation is in order, merely to make themselves feel good about carrying a gun. They think, "Man, I really showed that jack booted thug, pig of a cop" when acting like an immature child.

Further, those same *******s get all upset about a cop getting a bit nasty during an encounter, also forgetting that the Constitution doesn't specify that law enforcement officers must be polite all the time.

*******s, I tell ya.

dbak
10-07-2012, 07:26
Kids are gay

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HalfHazzard
10-07-2012, 07:48
So the instigator's (the video guy) hands and feet are out of view. The cop should just yell, "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO KICK ME!" and then whoop the **** out of these guys.:cool:

Problem solved.

Bren
10-07-2012, 07:51
I'm thinking the OP's post was sarcasm. The police officer in the video was quite professional. What I don't understand is why the OCers didn't walk away when the cop gave them that option multiple times...

Because, aside from being stupid POSs, their only purpose for going through town with rifles was to provoke a confrontation with police and put it on youtube. They want to show that the officer was violating their rights and to walk away when he told them they could would not create that impression.

What I want to see is the video when a non-officer takes their guns and beats their ###es. If you've ever dealt with or known people like these (and you aren't one) you know a 16-year-old gang banger could rob them without being in serious danger.

Too many people, including a number on this board, feel that confrontation is in order, merely to make themselves feel good about carrying a gun. They think, "Man, I really showed that jack booted thug, pig of a cop" when acting like an immature child.

My best guess is, in their minds, like that Leonard fellow with the orange AK, they think they will be some sort of heroes to gun owners. They don't get that the only people who think they're "cool" when they see these videos are their fellow mall-ninja-nerds who also just recently added guns alongside their comic book and sci-fi hobbies.

HalfHazzard
10-07-2012, 07:54
What I want to see is the video when a non-officer takes their guns and beats their ###es. If you've ever dealt with or known people like these (and you aren't one) you know a 16-year-old gang banger could rob them without being in serious danger.

Post this on world star hip hop... then all the gang bangers that watch YouTube would know these idiots walk around with unloaded guns.

jdh31313
10-07-2012, 08:09
I would have took the officer up on the offer to see his rifle :)

jeepinbandit
10-07-2012, 08:19
Cop was professional didn't seem to be bullying them or anything made a contact.

The kids weren't total *********s but you could tell their adrenline was up and were talking at 1 million miles an hour. And the cop had much more knowledge on the law than they did and I was impressed with that :)

Misleading title is misleading and I'm usually very pro open carry and anti bad cop. This cop wasn't a bad guy.

jbglock
10-07-2012, 10:00
I'm starting to think all this OC stuff was started by anti gun activists to make all gun owners look bad.

wprebeck, you hit the nail on the head. Nothing in the constitution says I have to be polite if you aren't. Of course people tend to equate an officer not being polite with having their rights violated. Do these states where this seems to occur frequently not have the charge of going armed to the terror of the public?

BenjiEDF
10-07-2012, 10:05
That cop was very professional.

Ohio Cop
10-07-2012, 10:08
Again I reiterate, you do that in my neck of the woods and you WILL be proned out and arrested.


Sent from my PKE meter.

lethal tupperwa
10-07-2012, 10:26
I have been retired for a while

but what happened to the misdemeanor(up to a year in jail)

of failure to identify>

jeepinbandit
10-07-2012, 10:55
Different states different laws.

In Texas I don't have to provide ID unless I'm operating a motor vehicle or the officer believes I'm lying about my identity during a street contact. All I have to give them in that case is my name.

nursetim
10-07-2012, 11:20
We need more officers like this guy. I thought he was being totally cool. What is the big deal about whipping out ID, letting the officer do his job and then be on your way? I just don't get it.

No if it was a handgun, maybe, maybe I could see being minorly put off. But why squeeze the officer's shoes about doing his job?

Pepper45
10-07-2012, 12:22
I have been retired for a while

but what happened to the misdemeanor(up to a year in jail)

of failure to identify>

No such statute in Oregon. In a vehicle, someone can be charged with a misdemeanor, but DA's have said they will not accept it on it's own, it must be in combination with another charge.

Bren
10-07-2012, 12:23
Post this on world star hip hop... then all the gang bangers that watch YouTube would know these idiots walk around with unloaded guns.

I didn't watch the whole thing to know he had an unloaded gun. I was talking about how easy it would be to rob him and make him run away crying, if he was carrying a loaded rifle with a round chambered.

By the way, getting abck to the original post theme:

That cop may have acted professional but he looked like crap, from what I must guess is a department run by hippes. Are there really places where officers in cars wear shorts, no socks, and then throw a tactical vest over the top in case they don't already look like low-rent mall security?

I can only hope he was a bicycle cop temporarily in the car.

Hack
10-07-2012, 13:05
I remember seeing that kind of thing in places. Our recreation staff have that option.

Sent from my communicator.

TXCOPPER
10-07-2012, 14:00
What I saw was two civil libertardian d- bags being attention whores and the cop doing his best to to his job without aggravating the situation. What exactly was "unprofessional" in the video, frizz? Give us a time stamp or some specific quotes. Don't just post and run.

I stand by my original judgement of you in the first Coptalk thread you posted. You're a "concern troll." You're slicker and more low key than most of our trolls, but a troll all the same.

^^^this^^^
Frizz comes on and starts these threads to stir the pot. Then after getting the reactions he wants, he posts something about how he respects what we do, and how dangerous our jobs are.

And if this officer is unprofessional, then I'd hate to see the alternative.


Sent from my angry birds provider (aka my phone)

CBennett
10-07-2012, 14:35
Wow misleading title lol..should be attention seeking morons and some good cops lol.

Kingarthurhk
10-07-2012, 15:51
Three morons escort an AR rifle looking for attention and get it. The end.

Mayhem like Me
10-07-2012, 16:34
Wow misleading title lol..should be attention seeking morons and some good cops lol. He may be trying to TBO the title.....

Dukeboy01
10-07-2012, 17:11
He may be trying to TBO the title.....

If he was, then he sucks at it. His comment in his first post belies that theory anyway.

As it is, it's been over 12 hours since his original post and he has yet to come back to answer any of the questions put to him.

Textbook trolling.

RussP
10-07-2012, 17:16
As it is, it's been over 12 hours since his original post and he has yet to come back to answer any of the questions put to him. To keep things in perspective, he has not logged in again since that post.

denn1911
10-07-2012, 17:21
I'm not sure what the OP was going with this. Your thread title does NOT make any sense. This guy is an idiot for OC'ing his AR for the sole purpose of negative interaction with LEO's. He must have been very disappointed to meet a professional officer that day. I dislike these videotaping clowns who get off trying to get 5 minutes of attention by posting a video on YouTube.

TheExplorer
10-07-2012, 17:26
Another lose, lose thread here. I'm not a big OC fan, but you can't say that here without getting slammed by the anti-leo's and called a a traitor.

Gombey
10-07-2012, 18:42
ND on this one

Gombey
10-07-2012, 18:42
Until he logs back in I'm going to believe he was being waggish.

Kingarthurhk
10-07-2012, 19:03
Another lose, lose thread here. I'm not a big OC fan, but you can't say that here without getting slammed by the anti-leo's and called a a traitor.

Yeah, don't respond to people who trash talk you professionally. I did. It got me banned from GTRI.

FiremanMike
10-07-2012, 19:54
I didn't watch the whole thing to know he had an unloaded gun. I was talking about how easy it would be to rob him and make him run away crying, if he was carrying a loaded rifle with a round chambered.

By the way, getting abck to the original post theme:

That cop may have acted professional but he looked like crap, from what I must guess is a department run by hippes. Are there really places where officers in cars wear shorts, no socks, and then throw a tactical vest over the top in case they don't already look like low-rent mall security?

I can only hope he was a bicycle cop temporarily in the car.

Or maybe he works for a department that cares more about law enforcement than spit shined shoes and leather gear with a mirrored gloss?

x_out86
10-07-2012, 20:42
What I don't understand is why the OCers didn't walk away when the cop gave them that option multiple times...

Because these morons were not getting the reaction from the officer they wanted. They were hoping that the officer that pulled up was going to give them something Youtube worthy because of unprofessionalism.

They got what they wanted (attention) and werent going to walk away from the chance to keep getting it.

RetailNinja
10-08-2012, 00:11
Or maybe he works for a department that cares more about law enforcement than spit shined shoes and leather gear with a mirrored gloss?

Thank you. He wasn't at a funeral he was on patrol. The uniform doesn't make the cop.

ICARRY2
10-08-2012, 01:24
I wonder if I bought Ofc. Jim lunch if he would let me shoot his full-auto AR15? :)

Bren
10-08-2012, 05:40
Or maybe he works for a department that cares more about law enforcement than spit shined shoes and leather gear with a mirrored gloss?

Not understanding why that is actually important - more in law enforcement than just about anywhere - is exactly why I siuggested "a department run by hippies."

I expect many on this forum not to get it, but there is a reason police wear uniforms and a reason the uniforms look like they do. Undercutting that makes it useless. It's a LOT more than "identification."

Thank you. He wasn't at a funeral he was on patrol. The uniform doesn't make the cop.

Again, if you were a cop you would, or at least should, udnerstand that appearance is a tool. Obviously, the guy in the video didn't, or else he thought he was supposed to "appear like a tool."

Most use of force continuums start with "officer presence" and "officer presence" means a lot more than just being present - it also means an appearance they conveys authority and commands respect. You could be identified as a cop with a T-shirt that says "police" - the badge and all the crap you pin on means a lot more than that. Diminishing that with casual clothes is reducing a tool at the start point of the force continuum - no different than downgrading from a .45 to a .380, but at a much more basic and often-used point in the continuum.

CLoft239
10-08-2012, 06:28
Not understanding why that is actually important - more in law enforcement than just about anywhere - is exactly why I siuggested "a department run by hippies."

I expect many on this forum not to get it, but there is a reason police wear uniforms and a reason the uniforms look like they do. Undercutting that makes it useless. It's a LOT more than "identification."



Again, if you were a cop you would, or at least should, udnerstand that appearance is a tool. Obviously, the guy in the video didn't, or else he thought he was supposed to "appear like a tool."

Most use of force continuums start with "officer presence" and "officer presence" means a lot more than just being present - it also means an appearance they conveys authority and commands respect. You could be identified as a cop with a T-shirt that says "police" - the badge and all the crap you pin on means a lot more than that. Diminishing that with casual clothes is reducing a tool at the start point of the force continuum - no different than downgrading from a .45 to a .380, but at a much more basic and often-used point in the continuum.

In the academy, my instructors cited a "study" (I guess you could call it that), in which X-amount of cop killers were interviewed, and asked why they chose to carry out their intentions on those officers when LE contact was made. One of the most common answers given was the cop's appearance, ie how squared away the officer appeared, and how they carried themselves.

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".

FiremanMike
10-08-2012, 06:40
Yeah we all learned about that study, but it fails in that the way a cop carries himself has nothing to do with whether they're wearing a high gloss belt/boots and starched trooper uniform or a "soft uniform".

You can look like a piece of **** in either or a professional who won't **** around in either. That dude in the video was in shape, walked with authority, and carried himself professionally, but you just want to get your panties in a wad and put him down because he's wearing a functional uniform for his work environment.

CLoft239
10-08-2012, 06:57
Yeah we all learned about that study, but it fails in that the way a cop carries himself has nothing to do with whether they're wearing a high gloss belt/boots and starched trooper uniform or a "soft uniform".

You can look like a piece of **** in either or a professional who won't **** around in either. That dude in the video was in shape, walked with authority, and carried himself professionally, but you just want to get your panties in a wad and put him down because he's wearing a functional uniform for his work environment.

I'm not critiquing the officer, I was simply conveying that I understood the point that Bren was making.

I myself don't have an issue with the uniform that the officer was wearing. But these kids also weren't your common criminal bent of off'ing a cop, so I'm sure his appearance made no difference to them...

But in the eyes of anybody wishing to do harm, or worse, to anybody, chances are that they will choose to carry out their acts on somebody that they feel isn't squared away. If somebody was a slob, and didn't bother to square away their appearance, then chances are they haven't taken the time to square away their defensive tactics, shooting, etc etc. and most criminals know this.

We study criminals, and most criminals study us. However, I also recognize the fact that some turds will attempt violence against us no matter what.

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".

rockapede
10-08-2012, 07:07
Personally, I'd just about kill to be able to wear a uniform like that, and I already work for a relatively forward thinking department that issues BDU pants and shorts for summer time (which I won't wear, because the inseam is ridiculously short). I don't know if I'd strap quite as much stuff on it, but I'd LOVE to have an external carrier. A sloppy and uncertain cop is going to look as such regardless of what he's (or she) is wearing. Hell, a sloppy guy in class As (and there are plenty of them around) is about the worst looking cop out there.

jeepinbandit
10-08-2012, 09:09
Now this is more like it :tongueout:

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/mobile/news/2012/09/ap-marine-helicopter-pilot-sues-over-wyoming-traffic-stop-092412

Open Carry Incident Wyoming - YouTube

Hamrhed
10-08-2012, 09:40
Again I reiterate, you do that in my neck of the woods and you WILL be proned out and arrested.
In the case of some smarta**ed teens- sounds like that's just what they need. That cop has more important things to do... and those hemorrhoids need a life lesson real quick

indigent
10-08-2012, 10:19
Different states different laws.

In Texas I don't have to provide ID unless I'm operating a motor vehicle or the officer believes I'm lying about my identity during a street contact. All I have to give them in that case is my name.

You might want to re-read Chapter 38 of the Penal Code.......

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 10:27
Yeah, failure to ID in texas is an arrestable misdemeanor. Not at good thing to decide not to do. The state issued you an ID, it is technically the property of the state. They can revoke it. You may have paid for the ID, but that is essentially a tax for the privelege of having that ID. If I get pulled over by a local, I don't argue about my ID.

I have done traffic stops, I have done felony traffic stops. I know exactly what he is thinking if I am stopped. The trouble is he can't figure out if I am a con or an LEO, because the wheels are canted away from the traffic flow, the window is down, the radio is off, and both hands are visible on the wheel. I don't get offended with having a flashlight in the driver's mirror either. I have used that trick many a time to keep someone from seeing well enough to take a good shot at me if that was their intention.

More often than not, if you are polite, professional, respectful, and responsive you won't have a problem if pulled over and aske for ID.

jeepinbandit
10-08-2012, 10:39
38.02

A person commits an offense if he intenionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information

Doesn't say I have to provide ID just says I have to provide them with name, dob and address if LAWFULLY arrested.

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 10:45
38.02



Doesn't say I have to provide ID just says I have to provide them with name, dob and address if LAWFULLY arrested.

Which can change based on county or municipal code. Either way you look at it, not a smart play.

jeepinbandit
10-08-2012, 10:52
I'd generally agree and don't have an issue providing my ID but I'm not everyone and some folks may not want to provide a little state issued card that identifies them. I think that's been tried a few times throughout history.

PuroMexicano
10-08-2012, 11:37
Thirteen minutes of a big can of whoop-ass from that cop to the gay trio of attention whores. Loved it.

Dukeboy01
10-08-2012, 12:06
It's been over 24 hours since the OP posted and ran and now the thread is sucking in more trolls.

frizz
10-08-2012, 12:32
^^^this^^^
Frizz comes on and starts these threads to stir the pot. Then after getting the reactions he wants, he posts something about how he respects what we do, and how dangerous our jobs are.

And if this officer is unprofessional, then I'd hate to see the alternative.


Wrong. Other than my initial two screwup threads, where have I done this? Show your work.

I'll use this post to explain since the sarcasm about the OC dbag with an extraordinarily professional cop wasn't clear to some.

There is another OC vs. cop vid that ends with the cop making the OCs look like double-dbags and, and the end of his every reply repeats "any questions, comments, or concerns?"

The cop in the vid I found was 100% cool; his goat isn't gettable.

frizz
10-08-2012, 12:37
I looked at the video. To me it looks like younguns going out for attention seeking. They got their attention from a professional who was being professional. Admittedly I have seen worse on YouTube.
But have you seen a more professional response to an OC cameraman.

frizz
10-08-2012, 12:42
What I saw was two civil libertardian d- bags being attention whores and the cop doing his best to to his job without aggravating the situation. What exactly was "unprofessional" in the video, frizz? Give us a time stamp or some specific quotes. Don't just post and run.

I stand by my original judgement of you in the first Coptalk thread you posted. You're a "concern troll." You're slicker and more low key than most of our trolls, but a troll all the same.
There was nothing uncool, let alone unprofessional by the cop here.

You can stand wherever you want.

frizz
10-08-2012, 12:43
I'm thinking the OP's post was sarcasm. The police officer in the video was quite professional. What I don't understand is why the OCers didn't walk away when the cop gave them that option multiple times...


We have a winner!

frizz
10-08-2012, 12:48
It's been over 24 hours since the OP posted and ran and now the thread is sucking in more trolls.

I've been sick over the past week or two, so what the hell am I supposed to do? Throw up on the ****ing keyboard?

frizz
10-08-2012, 12:54
I didn't watch the whole thing to know he had an unloaded gun. I was talking about how easy it would be to rob him and make him run away crying, if he was carrying a loaded rifle with a round chambered.

By the way, getting abck to the original post theme:

That cop may have acted professional but he looked like crap, from what I must guess is a department run by hippes.

You know good and well that hippie cop shops don't use guns. They use joint slingers to spread the love.

RussP
10-08-2012, 13:07
I've been sick over the past week or two, so what the hell am I supposed to do? Throw up on the ****ing keyboard?I betting the consensus here would be that's exactly what you did when you clicked on the Submit New Thread button.

Edited to add, glad you're feeling better...

RussP
10-08-2012, 13:14
I'll use this post to explain since the sarcasm about the OC dbag with an extraordinarily professional cop wasn't clear to some.To some? Frizz based on your start around here, I believe just about everyone, except SGT HATRED, believed you to be serious.There is another OC vs. cop vid that ends with the cop making the OCs look like double-dbags and, and the end of his every reply repeats "any questions, comments, or concerns?"

The cop in the vid I found was 100% cool; his goat isn't gettable.From now on, how about just stating your intent up front instead of leaving it up to the readers to interpret.

frizz
10-08-2012, 13:44
To some? Frizz based on your start around here, I believe just about everyone, except SGT HATRED, believed you to be serious.From now on, how about just stating your intent up front instead of leaving it up to the readers to interpret.


Just about everyone *who responded* that is. There is a difference.

I thought that the irony would be obvious. Nyquil is not a boon for estimation. Oh well.

RussP
10-08-2012, 14:05
Just about everyone *who responded* that is. There is a difference.So, you are saying that all the other GT members, all 171,831 of them, who did not post in the thread understood your sarcasm...I thought that the irony would be obvious. Nyquil is not a boon for estimation. Oh well.Yes, you should not post under the influence...

Beware Owner
10-08-2012, 14:22
It makes you wonder where the parents of those kids are.

Ohio Cop
10-08-2012, 14:30
It makes you wonder where the parents of those kids are.

Hiding from them.

frizz
10-08-2012, 14:40
i So, you are saying that all the other GT members, all 171,831 of them, who did not post in the thread understood your sarcasm

No, the ones who read thread. I didn't mean everyone in the world.

series1811
10-08-2012, 14:42
When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rih1ogXCxAs&feature=endscreen

They wanted attention. They got attention. Why so cross? It's not like they were going to stop before they got what they wanted, right?

frizz
10-08-2012, 14:42
Hiding from them.
Not a bad idea, all things considered.

oldman11
10-08-2012, 14:45
I used to think that open carry was OK, but after seeing these videos with attention seeking, juvenile acting, know it alls I'm convinced that open carry is not such a good idea. All they do is spout off about their rights, but what about other peoples rights? What about the rights of the people that called in? What about the policemans rights?

series1811
10-08-2012, 14:48
I used to think that open carry was OK, but after seeing these videos with attention seeking, juvenile acting, know it alls I'm convinced that open carry is not such a good idea. All they do is spout off about their rights, but what about other peoples rights? What about the rights of the people that called in? What about the policemans rights?

If the Brady people were smart, this is exactly what they would be doing.

Beware Owner
10-08-2012, 14:53
I used to think that open carry was OK, but after seeing these videos with attention seeking, juvenile acting, know it alls I'm convinced that open carry is not such a good idea. All they do is spout off about their rights, but what about other peoples rights? What about the rights of the people that called in? What about the policemans rights?

Just curious, honestly, what other people's and policeman's rights?

series1811
10-08-2012, 14:56
Just curious, honestly, what other people's and policeman's rights?

That's right! Not everybody has rights. Just some people.

wallytoo
10-08-2012, 15:00
The primary reason that I used to open carry in WI was because that was the only way for me to carry legally. The other option available was to not carry. Now, I have the option, which I have exercised, to have a CWL. I don't open carry often these days. Usually just in back yard.

I liked the officer. The young dummies I could live without.

Beware Owner
10-08-2012, 15:05
That's right! Not everybody has rights. Just some people.

I wasn't being funny, I was wondering what rights he's talking about.

RussP
10-08-2012, 15:18
i

No, the ones who read thread. I didn't mean everyone in the world.Oh, that group, the other 1,632 who read but did not post, all of them understood your sarcasm. Gosh, I have access to a bunch of information, but knowledge about what people not posting are thinking is not one of those tidbits. How did you get that information, Frizz?

Hack
10-08-2012, 15:30
But have you seen a more professional response to an OC cameraman.

I don't regularly look for these kind of videos on my own, since my interest in those isn't that high. I stand by what I previously stated.

frizz
10-08-2012, 15:32
Oh, that group, the other 1,632 who read but did not post, all of them understood your sarcasm. Gosh, I have access to a bunch of information, but knowledge about what people not posting are thinking is not one of those tidbits. How did you get that information, Frizz?
I don't know either way, and I never said I did. Why do you say that I claimed to know?

Mayhem like Me
10-08-2012, 15:42
Just curious, honestly, what other people's and policeman's rights?

The right Not to be subjected to Massive dewchbagary


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

frizz
10-08-2012, 15:44
The right Not to be subjected to Massive *********ary



No such right. If you turn on the news, you will see massive FT.

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 15:46
The right Not to be subjected to Massive *********ary


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Well, if we aren't getting it from the public, we're getting it at work. When were trying to chill on a forum, we get it here too. Hey, not to mention sometimes we get it at home too. The wife doesn't really want to know how your day went, that's small talk. It gets to the point where you start to like your dog better than people.

Hack
10-08-2012, 16:07
Well, if we aren't getting it from the public, we're getting it at work. When were trying to chill on a forum, we get it here too. Hey, not to mention sometimes we get it at home too. The wife doesn't really want to know how your day went, that's small talk. It gets to the point where you start to like your dog better than people.

True. All too true. I like the cats we have in the house. Eventually maybe we will have a nice dog again, as well. I want a good dog.

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 16:14
True. All too true. I like the cats we have in the house. Eventually maybe we will have a nice dog again, as well. I want a good dog.

The cat ran away, thankfully. It suffered from pica. It would hide in the closet, eat something that wasn't food, and leave some cold barf to stumble into when I would hovel in tired and just want to sleep. The German shepherds were cool, until one had to be put down because of cancer. The other younger one has been acting out a lot because they were companions. She is getting ironed out more with age.

Dogs are great. They love you unconditionally. You may have to have a who is the Alpha Dog meeting with it, and then 20 minutes later it snouting out and asking to be petted.

Hack
10-08-2012, 16:16
The cat ran away, thankfully. It suffered from pica. It would hide in the closet, eat something that wasn't food, and leave some cold barf to stumble into when I would hovel in tired and just want to sleep. The German shepherds were cool, until one had to be put down because of cancer. The other younger one has been acting out a lot because they were companions. She is getting ironed out more with age.

Dogs are great. They love you unconditionally. You may have to have a who is the Alpha Dog meeting with it, and then 20 minutes later it snouting out and asking to be petted.

We'll probably get a shelter pet that was tested with cats at the shelter. The cats here will probably attempt to put the dog into less than alpha category.:rofl:

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 16:20
We'll probably get a shelter pet that was tested with cats at the shelter. The cats here will probably attempt to put the dog into less than alpha category.:rofl:

No doubt. The older shepherd and the cat were cool with each other. The younger one wanted to corner it and bark at it, but wasn't sure what to do with it otherwise.

I think the funniest dog/cat interaction I have seen is my folks had a chihuahua/terrier mix and a maine coon cat. The coon cat would go tooling through the house and the little dog would get underneath it, so the cat's legs were barely making contact with the ground. It was a funny thing to watch.:supergrin:

Hack
10-08-2012, 16:27
No doubt. The older shepherd and the cat were cool with each other. The younger one wanted to corner it and bark at it, but wasn't sure what to do with it otherwise.

I think the funniest dog/cat interaction I have seen is my folks had a chihuahua/terrier mix and a maine coon cat. The coon cat would go tooling through the house and the little dog would get underneath it, so the cat's legs were barely making contact with the ground. It was a funny thing to watch.:supergrin:

That would be funny to watch.:)

jbglock
10-08-2012, 17:04
Well, if we aren't getting it from the public, we're getting it at work. When were trying to chill on a forum, we get it here too. Hey, not to mention sometimes we get it at home too. The wife doesn't really want to know how your day went, that's small talk. It gets to the point where you start to like your dog better than people.

True. All of it. It's birds for me. Never cared about them one bit until I got into le. After a day of being cursed at, run from, accused of various BS, lied to, and sometimes fought I sometimes prefer not to deal with people for a bit. I can watch birds and it is just peaceful. The only other time I get that is on the range.

frizz
10-08-2012, 17:13
Well, if we aren't getting it from the public, we're getting it at work. When were trying to chill on a forum, we get it here too. Hey, not to mention sometimes we get it at home too. The wife doesn't really want to know how your day went, that's small talk. It gets to the point where you start to like your dog better than people.

Dogs are the best people.

RetailNinja
10-08-2012, 17:34
Most use of force continuums start with "officer presence" and "officer presence" means a lot more than just being present - it also means an appearance they conveys authority and commands respect. You could be identified as a cop with a T-shirt that says "police" - the badge and all the crap you pin on means a lot more than that. Diminishing that with casual clothes is reducing a tool at the start point of the force continuum - no different than downgrading from a .45 to a .380, but at a much more basic and often-used point in the continuum.

Whether I'm a cop or not, I understand that a lot of fat, sloppy turds look like fat, sloppy turds in class A's, permanent press polyester or poly cotton BDUs and a polo. Officer presence is about being present, a hollow uniform is a hollow uniform. I know plenty of guys whose uniforms would hit you like viagra, but who cannot get drunk spouses to stop yelling right in front of them. If you want your department to look like the military youth camp then go for it, but in the real world, it doesn't matter. I could bury you in RODs whose uniform could pass military level inspection.

jbglock
10-08-2012, 17:44
I guess I'm old fashioned. If I could I'd wear a tie year round. At the same time I agree that officer presence is a lot more than just a uniform. I need not give examples because everyone here works with both extremes in that.

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 17:55
I guess I'm old fashioned. If I could I'd wear a tie year round. At the same time I agree that officer presence is a lot more than just a uniform. I need not give examples because everyone here works with both extremes in that.

Well, officer presence goes beyond uniform maitenance if you are still in uniform. It also helps not to be a food blister.

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 17:56
True. All of it. It's birds for me. Never cared about them one bit until I got into le. After a day of being cursed at, run from, accused of various BS, lied to, and sometimes fought I sometimes prefer not to deal with people for a bit. I can watch birds and it is just peaceful. The only other time I get that is on the range.

Fish tanks are nice that way too. But, there is nothing like putting rounds down range on paper when you're really pissed off.

Dukeboy01
10-08-2012, 18:10
There was nothing uncool, let alone unprofessional by the cop here.

You can stand wherever you want.

Your attempt at a "TBO" style sarcastic headline was an epic fail, as the youths say. You then followed it up with this:

When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rih1ogXCxAs&feature=endscreen

No /sarc tag or :upeyes: smilie to indicate that your text should not be interpreted simply as it read. Then you disappear for three pages.

Now you're back and, oh my gosh, it's all a big misunderstanding. :upeyes: (See how that works?)

I stand by my original judgement and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Bren
10-08-2012, 18:32
Just curious, honestly, what other people's and policeman's rights?

So...you weren't aware that everybody has rights, not just videotaping OC activist retards?
http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i48/5/3/21/frabz-Not-Sure-If-Serious-899491.jpg

Hack
10-08-2012, 18:59
*raises eyebrow* *Goes to make popcorn*

jeepinbandit
10-08-2012, 19:02
I think what he's getting at is what rights of others did these guys violate? It's not illegal to be a ******r..............but I'm sure a politician somewhere can fix that.

frizz
10-08-2012, 19:34
Your attempt at a "TBO" style sarcastic headline was an epic fail, as the youths say. You then followed it up with this:



No /sarc tag or :upeyes: smilie to indicate that your text should not be interpreted simply as it read. Then you disappear for three pages.

Now you're back and, oh my gosh, it's all a big misunderstanding. :upeyes: (See how that works?)

I stand by my original judgement and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Are you really still hung up on me "disappearing" for three pages? RussP explained to YOU SPECIFICALLY that I wasn't here during that time. (See post #34.)

Nothing I say is going to make a difference to you because you have made up your mind that I am a troll. So what was your point in posting this? You have nothing new to say, but you do confirm that regardless of what I post, it is still "textbook trolling", as you said.

Well, that's just textbook jackassing.

TheExplorer
10-08-2012, 19:44
This thread will probably got locked soon, but it would be nice if there was some moderator consistency here as well. Some are Pro LEO and some are like "True Believer" who gave me an infraction for wanting to expand gun laws in PA by reinstating a waiting period.

TXCOPPER
10-08-2012, 20:01
Wrong. Other than my initial two screwup threads, where have I done this? Show your work.

I'll use this post to explain since the sarcasm about the OC dbag with an extraordinarily professional cop wasn't clear to some.

There is another OC vs. cop vid that ends with the cop making the OCs look like double-dbags and, and the end of his every reply repeats "any questions, comments, or concerns?"

The cop in the vid I found was 100% cool; his goat isn't gettable.


Those were the threads to which I was referring. Forgive me, those were the only threads I've seen you in, and now this one. Again, it's hard to detect sarcasm in an emotionless text, but in my defense, I don't think I'm the only one who missed it. Walked like a duck, so I called it:wavey:

jbglock
10-08-2012, 20:05
This thread will probably got locked soon, but it would be nice if there was some moderator consistency here as well. Some are Pro LEO and some are like "True Believer" who gave me an infraction for wanting to expand gun laws in PA by reinstating a waiting period.

Agree. Won't say more so I don't get another.

I also agree frizz is trolling.

frizz
10-08-2012, 20:11
Those were the threads to which I was referring. Forgive me, those were the only threads I've seen you in, and now this one. Again, it's hard to detect sarcasm in an emotionless text, but in my defense, I don't think I'm the only one who missed it. Walked like a duck, so I called it:wavey:

I should have put something in to make the sarcasm clear, and I can't fault you for not seeing it.

Looking back, I should have left it out because now a thread that I wanted to be about a very smooth cop who used people skills to get the job done has turned into an "is frizz a troll" thread.

ETA:

Do you think that sarcasm has been harder to detect because of all of the nuts and cranks we run in to online?

RussP
10-08-2012, 20:27
I should have put something in to make the sarcasm clear, and I can't fault you for not seeing it.

Looking back, I should have left it out because now a thread that I wanted to be about a very smooth cop who used people skills to get the job done has turned into an "is frizz a troll" thread.To avoid that happening in the future, make certain your intent is crystal clear.

Do not use 'TBO Style' titles.

Again, make certain there is no ambiguity in the title or your comments.

If you are complimenting LE, say so.

If you are challenging LE, say so.

That would help...

RussP
10-08-2012, 20:35
ETA:

Do you think that sarcasm has been harder to detect because of all of the nuts and cranks we run in to online?Sarcasm does not become you. You need to find something that works better for you.

And this "we", that would be you and...?

CLoft239
10-08-2012, 20:44
ETA:

Do you think that sarcasm has been harder to detect because of all of the nuts and cranks we run in to online?

We?

Edit: meh, Russ beat me to it :(
#IneedtoreadentirethreadB4respondingfornowon

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".

frizz
10-08-2012, 20:47
Sarcasm does not become you. You need to find something that works better for you.

And this "we", that would be you and...?

Russ, there is no way you are going to convince me that you don't run into a lot of nuts and cranks online. You're a mod on a high-volume discussion board!

Or did I misread you?

frizz
10-08-2012, 20:49
We?

Edit: meh, Russ beat me to it :(
#IneedtoreadentirethreadB4respondingfornowon


OK. What did I miss this time?

SGT HATRED
10-08-2012, 21:05
I used to think that open carry was OK, but after seeing these videos with attention seeking, juvenile acting, know it alls I'm convinced that open carry is not such a good idea. All they do is spout off about their rights, but what about other peoples rights? What about the rights of the people that called in? What about the policemans rights?

Seriously what rights of others are being violated by OC?

Hack
10-08-2012, 21:12
Seriously what rights of others are being violated by OC?

To feel safe? Is it a right to feel safe? Is it a right for the one calling in to feel safe? Is it a right for the responding police officer to the man with a gun call to feel safe? Interesting questions? Perhaps. How do we balance the right to open carry with the rights of others? What rights would we intrude upon by open carrying?

RussP
10-08-2012, 21:39
Russ, there is no way you are going to convince me that you don't run into a lot of nuts and cranks online. You're a mod on a high-volume discussion board!

Or did I misread you? There's nothing to read. I asked a question. You did not answer.

use2b6L32
10-08-2012, 21:40
This video would've been WAY BETTER if instead of saying "Just to let you know, we're audio taping!!" they would've said "Just to let you know, WE'RE ******-BAGS!!"

Ass-wipes.

SGT HATRED
10-08-2012, 22:35
To feel safe? Is it a right to feel safe? Is it a right for the one calling in to feel safe? Is it a right for the responding police officer to the man with a gun call to feel safe? Interesting questions? Perhaps. How do we balance the right to open carry with the rights of others? What rights would we intrude upon by open carrying?

Where in the constitution does it say you have the right to "feel" safe?

Ohio Cop
10-08-2012, 22:39
Where in the constitution does it say you have the right to "feel" safe?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Kind of open to interpretation, eh?



Sent from my PKE meter.

Kingarthurhk
10-08-2012, 22:57
Where in the constitution does it say you have the right to "feel" safe?

Oh, I guess, if we want to be technical, the 4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Granted it is about search warrants, but it is an interesting turn a phrase.

RetailNinja
10-08-2012, 23:10
It also helps not to be a food blister.

I actually laughed out loud at that! :rofl:

NEOH212
10-08-2012, 23:32
Yay! I want people to look at me! I feel special!

:agree::perfect10::number1:

Morris
10-08-2012, 23:33
Popcorn is ready!

countsk
10-08-2012, 23:56
I'm all about rights but that police officer was totally professional. These guys were just jack^&$%#.

Pepper45
10-09-2012, 00:30
This video would've been WAY BETTER if instead of saying "Just to let you know, we're audio taping!!" they would've said "Just to let you know, WE'RE ******-BAGS!!"

Ass-wipes.

Actually, Oregon requires notification that your voice is being recorded, unless it's over the telephone, or very obvious that it's being recorded. I have arrested people for that offense before, and these guys must have done their homework before stepping out to be dooshbags.

Gombey
10-09-2012, 06:25
Well, how about the right to keep and bear arms?

Idiots like these pushed the legislators in CA to make open carry illegal. For many this was the only way they could legally carry a firearm.

These "activist" have effectively stripped many of this right.

Patchman
10-09-2012, 06:46
Where in the constitution does it say you have the right to "feel" safe?

In the same place where people are granted the right to get married and divorced. Yes, that's state rights but all states follow the Fed constitution and impose very, very few hoops (and reasonably low fees) to jump through to get married or divorced.

frizz
10-09-2012, 06:53
I actually laughed out loud at that! :rofl:
I actually had to look it up. :crying:

frizz
10-09-2012, 06:56
There's nothing to read. I asked a question. You did not answer.
I don't understand your question then. I can be slow on the uptake, so can you reword it, por favor?

frizz
10-09-2012, 07:02
To feel safe? Is it a right to feel safe? Is it a right for the one calling in to feel safe? Is it a right for the responding police officer to the man with a gun call to feel safe? Interesting questions? Perhaps. How do we balance the right to open carry with the rights of others? What rights would we intrude upon by open carrying?

I have to see any right to feel safe about the same way I see the right to not be offended. If it exists, the right to free expression.

As far as open carry goes, I see both sides. It does boil down to a social norm. In some places in time, it was not uncommon to see open carry. Maybe the old west, but I don't know if that is just the movies.

frizz
10-09-2012, 07:09
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Kind of open to interpretation, eh?

No. It is a collective right.

Never mind the fact that a "right" enforceable by no-one isn't a right at all.

frizz
10-09-2012, 07:12
This video would've been WAY BETTER if instead of saying "Just to let you know, we're audio taping!!" they would've said "Just to let you know, WE'RE ******-BAGS!!"

Ass-wipes.
I have not seen one in which they are NOT dbags!

This one is the smoothest cop response EVAR! Cooler than the other side of the pillow.

frizz
10-09-2012, 07:21
In the same place where people are granted the right to get married and divorced. Yes, that's state rights but all states follow the Fed constitution and impose very, very few hoops (and reasonably low fees) to jump through to get married or divorced.
There was a line is my undergrad business law textbook that I have never seen expressed elsewhere so clearly. I was something like this:

"The Commerce Clause gives Congress the power to legislate pretty much anywhere they please."

If they can ban food grown for self-consumption, what limits are there? Yeah, they did this: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_citation) (1942).

RussP
10-09-2012, 08:01
Okay, here's the thing, as I've said before. When people find that normal OC is not getting them the negative response from law enforcement they seek, they amp up their presentation, increase the drama. It might be carrying a larger firearm. It might be carrying a rifle caliber pistol. It might be carrying semi-auto versions of well known full-auto firearms. It might be changing locations and times. It might be any or a combination of those things.

Go back a few years. Honestly, some of the recordings made then, mostly audio, did support legitimate complaints and led to changes in ordinances, laws and policies after traditional complaint formats failed.

When video started appearing it became somewhat of a contest to see whose video could get the most views on YouTube. The trolling for negative encounters began in earnest, leading to videos like the one in this thread. Trying to resolve issues through normal channels became even less popular, replaced by "15-Minutes-of-Fame" Syndrome.

Oh, there are still groups and organizations working with local governments, local LE, legislatures all across the country to achieve the goals needed to secure the 2nd Amendment for all. BUT, are some of these videos actually hurting the work being done? I say yes. They are putting forth images that others say are representative of all of us who carry. That is absolutely untrue.

Now, threads like this create problems. Specifically, some of the posts responding to the video, the ones denigrating the OCers and OCers in general, they ain't helping LE's image as seen by some people who carry. And those are the most vocal people in these threads, those who have their feelings hurt by the JBTs.

Well, when someone opens a thread like this in Cop Talk, the forum on GT created by Eric specifically for LE members, the reception is going to be a bit difference than, say, if it were opened in another forum, like, oh what is it called, oh, yeah, Carry Issues. LE members here in CT are going to be critical in evaluating intent, defensive if hostility is sensed, and bluntly honest with their opinions.

This isn't a closed, by invitation only forum. It is, however, a tight knit community forum where it sometimes takes those not involved in that community time to establish credibility. Patience is a virtue. Want to jump in with both feet? Look at your LZ. Make sure you're not jumping into a pile of excrement. Not sure? PM me. Run the idea past me. Some of the cops here do before posting in CI.

Are there ways to start a thread like this without drawing battle lines? Yep.Title: I'd like your opinion about this OCer vs. LEO video

Post Comment: I believe the LEO did a great job. The OCers, not so good. What are your thoughts?There will still be those that are skeptical about intent, but that is a better start.

Or, just try to be as confrontational, controversial as you can.

:cool:

Beware Owner
10-09-2012, 08:03
The right Not to be subjected to Massive dewchbagary


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

If that was the case, we wouldn't even have a GT forum to go to...

RussP
10-09-2012, 08:03
I don't understand your question then. I can be slow on the uptake, so can you reword it, por favor?The question is simple enough as is.

Patchman
10-09-2012, 08:29
There was a line is my undergrad business law textbook that I have never seen expressed elsewhere so clearly. I was something like this:

"The Commerce Clause gives Congress the power to legislate pretty much anywhere they please."

If they can ban food grown for self-consumption, what limits are there? Yeah, they did this: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_citation) (1942).

The commerce clause is how the Feds got their foot in the door regarding civil rights, which up to that time had been considered a state matter.

Patchman
10-09-2012, 08:31
There was a line is my undergrad business law textbook that I have never seen expressed elsewhere so clearly. I was something like this:

"The Commerce Clause gives Congress the power to legislate pretty much anywhere they please."

If they can ban food grown for self-consumption, what limits are there? Yeah, they did this: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_citation) (1942).

The commerce clause is how the Feds got their foot in the door regarding civil rights, which up to that time (late 1950s, early 1960s?) had been considered a state matter.

TheExplorer
10-09-2012, 09:03
Okay, here's the thing, as I've said before. When people find that normal OC is not getting them the negative response from law enforcement they seek, they amp up their presentation, increase the drama. It might be carrying a larger firearm. It might be carrying a rifle caliber pistol. It might be carrying semi-auto versions of well known full-auto firearms. It might be changing locations and times. It might be any or a combination of those things.

Go back a few years. Honestly, some of the recordings made then, mostly audio, did support legitimate complaints and led to changes in ordinances, laws and policies after traditional complaint formats failed.

When video started appearing it became somewhat of a contest to see whose video could get the most views on YouTube. The trolling for negative encounters began in earnest, leading to videos like the one in this thread. Trying to resolve issues through normal channels became even less popular, replaced by "15-Minutes-of-Fame" Syndrome.

Oh, there are still groups and organizations working with local governments, local LE, legislatures all across the country to achieve the goals needed to secure the 2nd Amendment for all. BUT, are some of these videos actually hurting the work being done? I say yes. They are putting forth images that others say are representative of all of us who carry. That is absolutely untrue.

Now, threads like this create problems. Specifically, some of the posts responding to the video, the ones denigrating the OCers and OCers in general, they ain't helping LE's image as seen by some people who carry. And those are the most vocal people in these threads, those who have their feelings hurt by the JBTs.

Well, when someone opens a thread like this in Cop Talk, the forum on GT created by Eric specifically for LE members, the reception is going to be a bit difference than, say, if it were opened in another forum, like, oh what is it called, oh, yeah, Carry Issues. LE members here in CT are going to be critical in evaluating intent, defensive if hostility is sensed, and bluntly honest with their opinions.

This isn't a closed, by invitation only forum. It is, however, a tight knit community forum where it sometimes takes those not involved in that community time to establish credibility. Patience is a virtue. Want to jump in with both feet? Look at your LZ. Make sure you're not jumping into a pile of excrement. Not sure? PM me. Run the idea past me. Some of the cops here do before posting in CI.

Are there ways to start a thread like this without drawing battle lines? Yep.There will still be those that are skeptical about intent, but that is a better start.

Or, just try to be as confrontational, controversial as you can.

:cool:

While I don't agree with everything RussP has ever said, this post deserves to be a sticky.

Billy10mm
10-09-2012, 10:04
Awesome cop. These kids are stupid.

frizz
10-09-2012, 10:22
The question is simple enough as is.

OK, lemme see if this helps you see my failure to understand.


The anonymity of the net has brought out lots of kooks and cranks with wild conspiracy theories. Add to that, even odd, out-of-the-ordinary views are expressed on the net that wouldn't be expressed in person.

Because if that, it can sometimes be hard to tell if someone is pulling your leg. Consequently sarcasm (or more accurately irony) can be hard to pick up on.

I say, "We all run into it online." We meaning pretty much everyone online. Is that it?

frizz
10-09-2012, 10:28
The commerce clause is how the Feds got their foot in the door regarding civil rights, which up to that time had been considered a state matter.

I think the 14th Amendment had a lot to do with that, too. It is, as we know, the vehicle by which the Bill of Rights has been applied to the states.

While I like the result, I have to admit that I find it to be bad law.

jeepinbandit
10-09-2012, 10:44
Well, how about the right to keep and bear arms?

Idiots like these pushed the legislators in CA to make open carry illegal. For many this was the only way they could legally carry a firearm.

These "activist" have effectively stripped many of this right.


So what you're saying is that they lost their right by exercising their right? So it might as well have been illegal in the first place. :faint:

frizz
10-09-2012, 11:11
So what you're saying is that they lost their right by exercising their right? So it might as well have been illegal in the first place. :faint:

Well, the right IS gone, is it not?

They exercised the right in a foolish, obnoxious manner, and screwed it up for everyone else.



"Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive." T. Roosevelt

JuneyBooney
10-09-2012, 13:15
When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rih1ogXCxAs&feature=endscreen

I fully support gun rights but if the guys had the gun in a case they probably would have not been messed with. The cop made valid points and if he was a jerk he could have come with a number of cops and proned them out. I agree with what Russ said above. I think these guys may have been trying to make a point but if it would have gone to court I think the cop would win. I don't think he was being unreasonable by wanting to check them out after the Colorado lunatic shooting.
:faint:

Beware Owner
10-09-2012, 13:22
He tried to win them over while doing his job. These kids should respect that. He even offered to show them HIS rifle, which is even cooler. Come on, now.

Roering
10-09-2012, 15:46
There should be a law against D-bags being able to open carry.

This should be a 3 min. stop at most.

Check ID/examine weapon(s)/say goodbye.

Gombey
10-09-2012, 16:28
So what you're saying is that they lost their right by exercising their right? So it might as well have been illegal in the first place. :faint:

Negative! I am saying they lost the right because of how they exercised the right.

Had they just carries their pistols in accordance w/the law sans cameras and negative attitudes they would still have that right.

As I have said a few times here, prior to getting my citizenship the only way I could carry my firearm was via open carry. Had I pulled the mess that these "activist" pull I may have ended up losing that and a bunch of other rights. I may have even lost the privilege to get into LE.

I'm not anti open carry. I am anti stupidity, and this mess is stupidity.

jeepinbandit
10-09-2012, 16:38
However even when they were carrying cameras they were still within the confines of the law and were still accosted. Yeah the attitude could have been fixed but being a dick isn't against the law.

Gombey
10-09-2012, 17:02
However even when they were carrying cameras they were still within the confines of the law and were still accosted. Yeah the attitude could have been fixed but being a dick isn't against the law.

I wouldn't say accosted, and I agree being a dick isn't against the law. I'm grateful for that, if it where I'd be in some serious trouble!

That said, if someone calls the police and says there is a man with a gun walking around the police have to check it out. The individuals with the camera are looking for a confrontation with LE. The officer is just doing his job.

Just for arguments sake, this guy has a plan to kill his co-workers, the department gets calls about a MWAG and just do a cursory check like many are advocating. Don't dig any deeper, don't try to talk to the guy. He makes it to his destination and kills a bunch of people. Now what? What will the response be?

Just let the officers do their jobs. They have to answer calls. This is not the way to change laws in a positive way.

Honey is needed, not vinegar.

Gombey
10-09-2012, 17:04
There should be a law against D-bags being able to open carry.

See the above, this is the kind of change this type of activism creates!

Roering, I was just using your post as an example. No offense intended and I understand the spirit of your post.

jbglock
10-09-2012, 17:15
I wouldn't say accosted, and I agree being a dick isn't against the law. I'm grateful for that, if it where I'd be in some serious trouble!

That said, if someone calls the police and says there is a man with a gun walking around the police have to check it out. The individuals with the camera are looking for a confrontation with LE. The officer is just doing his job.

Just for arguments sake, this guy has a plan to kill his co-workers, the department gets calls about a MWAG and just do a cursory check like many are advocating. Don't dig any deeper, don't try to talk to the guy. He makes it to his destination and kills a bunch of people. Now what? What will the response be?

Just let the officers do their jobs. They have to answer calls. This is not the way to change laws in a positive way.

Honey is needed, not vinegar.

I agree with all of your post. The attitude that someone is being harassed just because they have to speak to an officer amazes me.

I stand by my point that if I was an anti 2a activist this is just the type of thing I would do to make 2a supporters look bad.

Roering
10-09-2012, 17:52
See the above, this is the kind of change this type of activism creates!

Roering, I was just using your post as an example. No offense intended and I understand the spirit of your post.

No worries. I get what you're saying.

Goldendog Redux
10-09-2012, 18:54
When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rih1ogXCxAs&feature=endscreen

Hidden in your post is the absolute truth which reveals more about you than you can possibly imagine

Morris
10-09-2012, 18:58
I'm not anti open carry. I am anti stupidity, and this mess is stupidity.

Well written!

rockapede
10-09-2012, 19:02
However even when they were carrying cameras they were still within the confines of the law and were still accosted. Yeah the attitude could have been fixed but being a dick isn't against the law.

accostedpast participle, past tense of ac·cost (Verb)

Verb:

Approach and address (someone) boldly or aggressively.
Approach (someone) with hostility or harmful intent.

I do not think that word means what you think it does.

razdog76
10-09-2012, 19:11
With the number of staged OC confrontations in the last year, it makes me wonder how long until they round a corner and surprise the wrong citizen(s), or they get rolled by some thugs, and get killed.

Remember the two idiots running around on the street corner with a replica RPG. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1dd_1348672642&comments=1

Really, what's the difference between the two. :dunno:

steveksux
10-09-2012, 19:22
With the number of staged OC confrontations in the last year, it makes me wonder how long until they round a corner and surprise the wrong citizen(s), or they get rolled by some thugs, and get killed.At least they'll have their own deaths on camera... :rofl:

Remember the two idiots running around on the street corner with a replica RPG. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1dd_1348672642&comments=1

Really, what's the difference between the two. :dunno:

These idiots keep this crap up and I'm going to lose my right to wander around in a sheet carrying a fake RPG.... :steamed:

Randy

AZson
10-09-2012, 19:39
Because they're *********s, that's why.


For the record -

Nowhere in the Constitution is it written that one must be an absolute ******* in order to exercise one's right guaranteed under that document. Too many people, including a number on this board, feel that confrontation is in order, merely to make themselves feel good about carrying a gun. They think, "Man, I really showed that jack booted thug, pig of a cop" when acting like an immature child.

Further, those same *******s get all upset about a cop getting a bit nasty during an encounter, also forgetting that the Constitution doesn't specify that law enforcement officers must be polite all the time.

*******s, I tell ya.


I do think this cop was pretty professional but I also think there is nothing in the Constitution that the kids have to be polite either. You forget it goes both ways.

jbglock
10-09-2012, 20:05
I do think this cop was pretty professional but I also think there is nothing in the Constitution that the kids have to be polite either. You forget it goes both ways.

I think you missed the point. At least from an leo's point of view.

razdog76
10-09-2012, 20:06
I do think this cop was pretty professional but I also think there is nothing in the Constitution that the kids have to be polite either. You forget it goes both ways.

Unfortunately, many of us are reminded daily. Where wprebeck works, he is probably reminded hourly.

Kelo6
10-09-2012, 20:37
OC Idiot/Street Lawyer: "Under ORS 166.xxx it's illegal for me to possess it and handle it..."

Officer: "No it's not."


Gentlemen, school is in session. :supergrin:


I'll admit, I looked further at his videos (no idea why, maybe because I'm curious as to what my fellow Oregonians are up to), but his interaction with Bend PD was even better.

You thought the OP's video was professional, Bend PD's performances was spectacular, and the officer even suggested that he consider "the other ramifications of [his] actions." Really well done.

skippz
10-09-2012, 21:28
I looked at the video. To me it looks like younguns going out for attention seeking. They got their attention from a professional who was being professional. Admittedly I have seen worse on YouTube.

Really, I haven't been on YouTube tons but that's at the top of my "dumbest things to do" list... Those kids are displaying total disrespect for the slain victims and they're families, not to mention their community... and they're doing nothing for the 2nd amendment.
I mean what's the copper supposed to do, just ignore everyone he sees strolling down the street with a rifle (be it an AR or a muzzleloader).
This is ricockulous.

Hack
10-09-2012, 22:07
Really, I haven't been on YouTube tons but that's at the top of my "dumbest things to do" list... Those kids are displaying total disrespect for the slain victims and they're families, not to mention their community... and they're doing nothing for the 2nd amendment.
I mean what's the copper supposed to do, just ignore everyone he sees strolling down the street with a rifle (be it an AR or a muzzleloader).
This is ricockulous.

I hear you. Carrying openly in some places has a price to pay. The price is being looked at, especially when one is going about with cameras and looking for confrontations. The larger overall price is how it may ultimately affect a people group for the long term.

Thankfully in Kansas we have the right to conceal carry on a permit, and the right to open carry in public. Even cities where they would rather not have open carry happen will have to bend to the state laws concerning that, or face court, and extra money spent that they would not have to spend. I conceal carry, and I have been told by a LEO working for LVN that we can open carry no problem in LVN.

frizz
10-09-2012, 22:13
Hidden in your post is the absolute truth which reveals more about you than you can possibly imagine
The post has poorly presented sarcasm/irony on my part. If you look at the vid, you will see a cool-cucumber cop professionally dealing with a couple of open carriers who were looking for LEO confrontations.

jpa
10-09-2012, 22:13
Dude, I would so take him up on his offer to let me check out his SBR Full-auto rifle. These guys are idjits for wasting as much time as they did.

If cops all across the country started offering to let open carriers handle their toys there would be an explosion of open carry!

frizz
10-09-2012, 22:26
Question for cops dealing with OCs. (Cops only, please!)

If you approached an OC while responding to a MWAG report, and the OCer says in a respectful tone of voice, something like, "Sir, I understand your concerns and need to investigate. With that in mind, I'm not looking for trouble. If I may point out that open carry is lawful. That said, how can I help you?"

This is a two parter: 1st one, there is no recording. 2nd one, there is recording, but the OCer says (again, in a respectful tone of voice) something like, "I do want to be upfront and let you know that I'm recording.

Ohio Cop
10-09-2012, 22:41
Question for cops dealing with OCs. (Cops only, please!)

If you approached an OC while responding to a MWAG report, and the OCer says in a respectful tone of voice, something like, "Sir, I understand your concerns and need to investigate. With that in mind, I'm not looking for trouble. If I may point out that open carry is lawful. That said, how can I help you?"

This is a two parter: 1st one, there is no recording. 2nd one, there is recording, but the OCer says (again, in a respectful tone of voice) something like, "I do want to be upfront and let you know that I'm recording.

Here in Ohio, open carry is not unlawful per se. We get a few people here and there open carrying on their property or what have you, that's never bothered me. Here it is almost an absolute that their are guns EVERYWHERE.

I've went to several homes for calls of service and end up with a show and tell from the homeowner. There's some cool stuff here.

Open carrying an AR or something of that nature in a shopping center parking lot will get you a second and closer look, likely due to this:

2917.11 Disorderly conduct.
(A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following:

(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.

No lawful or reasonable purpose of the offender.

What exactly is your lawful and reasonable purpose to carry an assault rifle in a parking lot or what have you?

Yes, I understand your second amendment rights and all that. Mama and her two little kids don't deserve to see that when they go to the McDonald's play place.

This has been discussed at length with supervisors and our prosecutors, each of them, given the circumstances, would have no issue with an arrest under those circumstances.


Wear as many guns as you want, wear them concealed the way it should be done.

Sent from my PKE meter.

frizz
10-09-2012, 22:53
Wear as many guns as you want, wear them concealed the way it should be done.

Good advice. Please understand that I think OC is a bad idea, even if the law of the area permits it.

I should have added to the question, open carry is legal in your neck of the woods.

I compare OCers to the assorted conspiracy theorists. The 1st Amendment protects the right to be an idjit, but that does not make being an idjit a good idea.

rockapede
10-10-2012, 06:10
Question for cops dealing with OCs. (Cops only, please!)

If you approached an OC while responding to a MWAG report, and the OCer says in a respectful tone of voice, something like, "Sir, I understand your concerns and need to investigate. With that in mind, I'm not looking for trouble. If I may point out that open carry is lawful. That said, how can I help you?"

This is a two parter: 1st one, there is no recording. 2nd one, there is recording, but the OCer says (again, in a respectful tone of voice) something like, "I do want to be upfront and let you know that I'm recording.

There's no need to tell the cop OC is legal. He/she almost guaranteed knows better in that regard than the activist.

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 06:41
There's no need to tell the cop OC is legal. He/she almost guaranteed knows better in that regard than the activist.

Probably not.

razdog76
10-10-2012, 08:05
Question for cops dealing with OCs. (Cops only, please!)

If you approached an OC while responding to a MWAG report, and the OCer says in a respectful tone of voice, something like, "Sir, I understand your concerns and need to investigate. With that in mind, I'm not looking for trouble. If I may point out that open carry is lawful. That said, how can I help you?"

This is a two parter: 1st one, there is no recording. 2nd one, there is recording, but the OCer says (again, in a respectful tone of voice) something like, "I do want to be upfront and let you know that I'm recording.

I couldn't care less whether I was being recorded or not, or whether they told me. I don't typically tell people I am recording them.

To expand a little on Ohio Copper's response. Ohio law also allows us to identify people when conducting an investigation. So, whether it is "reasonable, articulable suspicion," or an actual complaint I guarantee that at the very least I will know whether they have entered warrants, or a Civil Protection Order precluding them from possessing firearms.

This is probably why you don't see many of these type of videos from our state. :supergrin:

Line Rider
10-10-2012, 08:21
The officer was extremely professional to this bunch of internet attorneys.

rockapede
10-10-2012, 10:51
Probably not.

Why are you here again? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and have demonstrated it twice in this thread alone.

CLoft239
10-10-2012, 11:22
Why are you here again? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and have demonstrated it twice in this thread alone.

Didn't you know? Give an "activist" an internet connection, and Google, and suddenly they're a law expert.

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 12:15
Why are you here again? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and have demonstrated it twice in this thread alone.

How so?

Just because a person is a cop doesn't make them a walking law book. I've met my fair share of LEOs that have a very thin knowledge of laws basically enough to get the job done. I had LEOs in North Carolina when I was stationed there straight tell me that it's illegal to OC anywhere in the state :faint:

As for the Texas ID law I quoted actual Texas law straight from the Penal Code and no where did it say I had to provide an ID card :dunno: It simply stated I had to provide the info of Name, DOB, and Address to an officer didn't say I had to provide a card to do so.

Goldendog Redux
10-10-2012, 12:21
The post has poorly presented sarcasm/irony on my part. If you look at the vid, you will see a cool-cucumber cop professionally dealing with a couple of open carriers who were looking for LEO confrontations.

Ah. I smell what you are cooking now. Unfortunately, a great many people simply don't understand.

Green_Manelishi
10-10-2012, 12:37
I do believe the 3 OC desperados have a future with the Karsashians, or MTV's the Real Putz World.

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 12:42
HAHA I agree with that. The 3 kids= ******rs. Not illegal but they were. Cop=very professional and I liked his knowledge of the laws.

But there are times where cops are ******rs too. It happens.

rockapede
10-10-2012, 14:18
How so?

Just because a person is a cop doesn't make them a walking law book. I've met my fair share of LEOs that have a very thin knowledge of laws basically enough to get the job done. I had LEOs in North Carolina when I was stationed there straight tell me that it's illegal to OC anywhere in the state :faint:

As for the Texas ID law I quoted actual Texas law straight from the Penal Code and no where did it say I had to provide an ID card :dunno: It simply stated I had to provide the info of Name, DOB, and Address to an officer didn't say I had to provide a card to do so.

I never commented on Texas ID law :dunno:. Nor did I ever state cops are "walking law books." However, open carry is a simple concept and I don't know any cops that don't understand the laws that pertain to it in their jurisdictions. Hell, even in the few legitimate "poh leese behaving badly" youtube videos, the issue is almost never that the officer doesn't know whether or not OC is illegal but rather doesn't articulate reasonable suspicion for the stop very well. Furthermore, even in those videos in which the cop screws something up, the activist is almost always wrong about some part of the law. I stand by my statement that the average cop almost guaranteed knows better than the "activist" whether OC is legal or illegal.

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 14:46
I brought it up because I was trying to figure out the 2 times you are referencing in this thread where I had no idea what I was talking about. That's the only other thing I Could think of in this thread.

frizz
10-10-2012, 15:29
OC Idiot/Street Lawyer: "Under ORS 166.xxx it's illegal for me to possess it and handle it..."

Officer: "No it's not."


Gentlemen, school is in session. :supergrin:


I'll admit, I looked further at his videos (no idea why, maybe because I'm curious as to what my fellow Oregonians are up to), but his interaction with Bend PD was even better.

You thought the OP's video was professional, Bend PD's performances was spectacular, and the officer even suggested that he consider "the other ramifications of [his] actions." Really well done.

There is a GT member who also posts to an Oregon OC site where some of the dooshiest OCers post -- meaning the snotty ones who seek out confrontations with cops so they and put them up on youtube.

The GT poster gets very heated with these kids because they are giving the OC people in particular and gun people in general a bad name.

They are too stupid to understand that they are hurting others.

razdog76
10-10-2012, 15:33
There is a GT member who also posts to an Oregon OC site where some of the dooshiest OCers post -- meaning the snotty ones who seek out confrontations with cops so they and put them up on youtube.

The GT poster gets very heated with these kids because they are giving the OC people in particular and gun people in general a bad name.

They are too stupid to understand that they are hurting others.

Invite them to Ohio for me! Downtown Columbus would be a nice place to start. :whistling:

frizz
10-10-2012, 15:33
With the number of staged OC confrontations in the last year, it makes me wonder how long until they round a corner and surprise the wrong citizen(s), or they get rolled by some thugs, and get killed.

Remember the two idiots running around on the street corner with a replica RPG. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1dd_1348672642&comments=1

Really, what's the difference between the two. :dunno:
I'd say only the degree of jackassery.

razdog76
10-10-2012, 15:34
They would be playing the world series of stupid games.

frizz
10-10-2012, 15:40
Invite them to Ohio for me! Downtown Columbus would be a nice place to start. :whistling:

Now that would make for some good youtube viewing!


Don't tase me bro!

REMIX: "Can't Tase This" UF Student Tasered - YouTube

Prepare to wet your pants at :19.

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 15:43
They would be playing the world series of stupid games.

Thee Great State of Ohio does not play mamby pamby games!!! :whistling:

frizz
10-10-2012, 15:43
They would be playing the world series of stupid games.
No no no no. You mean the Stoopidbowl! How much are good tickets?

frizz
10-10-2012, 15:43
Thee Great State of Ohio does not play mamby pamby games!!! :whistling:
Is OC carry legal there?

razdog76
10-10-2012, 15:45
No no no no. You mean the Stoopidbowl! How much are good tickets?

With youtube, all seats are both good and free... after the appeals process is over. :supergrin:

Is OC carry legal there?

Absolutely, I OC every deer season!

The moment an Officer responds to a complaint, they are conducting an investigation to determine if the complaint is valid, and thus may identify the offender. Ohio Copper also posted the ORC for disorderly conduct in a previous post, so whether there was someone annoyed, harassed, or alarmed by their actions, an Officer could be investigating reasonable articulable suspicion.

Playing the games they do will earn an arrest for obstructing official business. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.31

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 15:45
Is OC carry legal there?

It is not unlawful.


Act like a jack hole and carry around a rifle in a parking lot and the out come will be less than desired. Reference my earlier post.


Sent from my PKE meter.

frizz
10-10-2012, 16:00
It is not unlawful.


Act like a jack hole and carry around a rifle in a parking lot and the out come will be less than desired. Reference my earlier post.

What about doing the same, and NOT acting like a tool? (HA! Like one of these OC youtube attention whores is going to do that!)

Seriously. Is it the snotty attitudes that make the difference to you with regard to an open carrier?

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 16:04
What about doing the same, and NOT acting like a tool? (HA! Like one of these OC youtube attention whores is going to do that!)

Seriously. Is it the snotty attitudes that make the difference to you with regard to an open carrier?

Absolutely not. I don't care one iota about open carry.

What lawful and responsible reason does one have to walk around a shopping center parking lot or street corner with a rifle slung at the low ready?


Sent from my PKE meter.

frizz
10-10-2012, 16:18
Absolutely not. I don't care one iota about open carry.

What lawful and responsible reason does one have to walk around a shopping center parking lot or street corner with a rifle slung at the low ready?


That is a good question. A cop should investigate it.

See you on some moron's youtube video! :tongueout:


I suppose if someone were carrying $4000 worth of gold to a buyer, having a Mini-14 at the ready would make sense. What say you?

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 16:29
That is a good question. A cop should investigate it.

See you on some moron's youtube video! :tongueout:


I suppose if someone were carrying $4000 worth of gold to a buyer, having a Mini-14 at the ready would make sense. What say you?

So would a concealed 1911 with a few extra magazines.

Why draw attention to yourself?

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 16:31
Absolutely not. I don't care one iota about open carry.

What lawful and responsible reason does one have to walk around a shopping center parking lot or street corner with a rifle slung at the low ready?


Sent from my PKE meter.


Because they feel like it (assuming it's not some "political display"). The mere existence of a rifle in public view does not mean something bad is going to happen.

Green_Manelishi
10-10-2012, 16:38
The mere existence of a rifle in public view does not mean something bad is going to happen.

True that but you can be confident that in many areas of the USA the po-lis will be called because of the fear something bad MIGHT be about to happen.

Where I live I frequently see a man, middle age, walking along with a 6-gun strapped to his right hip. No worries. He is on a side road. I have no idea what happens if he begins to walk down the main road and into the tourist area, but I would not be surprised if the po-lis have been called.

razdog76
10-10-2012, 16:47
I suppose if someone were carrying $4000 worth of gold to a buyer, having a Mini-14 at the ready would make sense. What say you?

I couldn't care less about either, and second what Ohio Copper said. Not sure where he works, but my county is about 50/50 rural and urban, so I see routinely see hunters, and farmers OC. Every once in a while we get a call about a civil war reinactor walking down the road with his Springfield, a Deputy responds and says hi, because we all know him now, and leave.

Would I stop and talk to him without being dispatched to talk to him, no. If it was someone I didn't know, and was in one of the more populated areas, I may very well stop because it would not be normal for the area.

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 17:12
Because they feel like it (assuming it's not some "political display"). The mere existence of a rifle in public view does not mean something bad is going to happen.

Reread what I wrote troll.


Sent from my PKE meter.

Kingarthurhk
10-10-2012, 17:27
Because they feel like it (assuming it's not some "political display"). The mere existence of a rifle in public view does not mean something bad is going to happen.

The mere prescence of a naked man and woman in bed doesn't mean something is going to happen either. But, it is likely. The officers do have the right to stop and engage in a consenual encounter. He did. He could have even conducted a Terry stop on that. He chose another route. Or, he could have ingored the situation, and then feel terrible later if they were out to thrill kill and record their exploits.

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 18:13
The mere prescence of a naked man and woman in bed doesn't mean something is going to happen either. But, it is likely. The officers do have the right to stop and engage in a consenual encounter. He did. He could have even conducted a Terry stop on that. He chose another route. Or, he could have ingored the situation, and then feel terrible later if they were out to thrill kill and record their exploits.

And then he'd be calling for the officers head.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.


Sent from my PKE meter.

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 18:14
Because they feel like it (assuming it's not some "political display"). The mere existence of a rifle in public view does not mean something bad is going to happen.

What lawful and reasonable and rational reason does one have to do that for?


Sent from my PKE meter.

Rupert
10-10-2012, 18:25
I like that cop.

rockapede
10-10-2012, 19:07
I brought it up because I was trying to figure out the 2 times you are referencing in this thread where I had no idea what I was talking about. That's the only other thing I Could think of in this thread.

Improper use of the word "accosted" because it suited your bias.

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 19:27
The mere prescence of a naked man and woman in bed doesn't mean something is going to happen either. But, it is likely. The officers do have the right to stop and engage in a consenual encounter. He did. He could have even conducted a Terry stop on that. He chose another route. Or, he could have ingored the situation, and then feel terrible later if they were out to thrill kill and record their exploits.

I'm going to say go back and re-read the thread I didn't agree with what they did as far as being *********s but I'll defend their right to 1) carry a weapon in public and 2) be *********s even though I don't agree with it. I also complemented the officer in the way he handled the situation. It's how it should be handled.

I hate the Westboro Church ****ers but I'll defend their first amendment right to be *********s because the first amendment applies to everyone. Even people who are dicks. But then I exercise my right to participate in the Patriot Guard and block them.

Do I agree with the way some OCers go about their business? Nope. But they have the right to do so and carry a firearm.

The Police DO NOT have the right to disarm or arrest them or detain them longer than is necessary or at all.

Gombey
10-10-2012, 19:57
The Police DO NOT have the right to disarm or arrest them or detain them longer than is necessary or at all.

Agree 100% w/the longer than necessary. The OCers, however; where in control of the duration of the stop. Had they just showed ID. They would have been able to go a lot sooner.

The at all part, yah we do have the right to disarm and detain.

JuneyBooney
10-10-2012, 20:06
Now that would make for some good youtube viewing!


Don't tase me bro!

REMIX: "Can't Tase This" UF Student Tasered - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc)

Prepare to wet your pants at :19.

That is good but this is better....:rofl:

Black Betty Epic Beard Man - YouTube

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 20:07
Actually I think at one point they were told they could leave if they wanted to. I'd have to go back to re-watch the video. Those guys were *********s no doubt about it, and I maintain that being a ******r is not only not illegal but constitutionally protected, but most of my comments weren't directed at that video. Go back a page or two and I posted a video of a Marine officer that got stopped in Wyoming and got hassled by some unprofessional deputies that's where most of my "angst" is coming from I guess.

JuneyBooney
10-10-2012, 20:13
Awesome cop. These kids are stupid.

He seemed pretty cool to me. :cool:

Ohio Cop
10-10-2012, 20:19
Actually I think at one point they were told they could leave if they wanted to. I'd have to go back to re-watch the video. Those guys were *********s no doubt about it, and I maintain that being a ******r is not only not illegal but constitutionally protected, but most of my comments weren't directed at that video. Go back a page or two and I posted a video of a Marine officer that got stopped in Wyoming and got hassled by some unprofessional deputies that's where most of my "angst" is coming from I guess.

So you're not looking at anything objectively are you?

frizz
10-11-2012, 00:09
So would a concealed 1911 with a few extra magazines.


I concur that a concealed pistol is the best way, but what if the Mini-14 is his only firearm?

My devil's advocate point is yes, a shoulder slung rifle in front of a strip mall is 99% of the time unreasonable, but there could be a reasonable explanation.

I'll go out on a limb and say that it is so out of the ordinary that there is RAS for a Terry stop.

frizz
10-11-2012, 00:21
The mere prescence of a naked man and woman in bed doesn't mean something is going to happen either. But, it is likely.

This is off the path, but....


I don't know if this was a civil case with the preponderance standard or a criminal adultery case with the reasonable doubt standard, but there is a 1950s case in which the evidence was a man & woman going into a motel room and leaving a couple of hours later.

The holding was that it was a reasonable inference that knocking boots took place. I think it even said or implied that thinking otherwise was boneheaded.

simmy952
10-11-2012, 06:22
I think you should change the title to a very professional police officer dealing with buttheads. The officer did a very good job dealing with people that only want the attention. There was no other reason for this video. Good job officer Estes. Why do people have to make a difficult even tougher. I am all for firearms ownership and carry but there also needs to be some common sense applied here. If there would have been someone hurt/shot and the police would not have tried to maintain public safety, I sure there would have been outcry by the public asking why no one checked on someone carrying an AR down a street. Grow up a little. That is is a perfect example of why some people think of gun owners as nutjobs.

Sammael
10-11-2012, 06:52
A few points...

Open carrying an AR or something of that nature in a shopping center parking lot will get you a second and closer look, likely due to this:

2917.11 Disorderly conduct.
(A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following:

(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.

Hmm, I'm in Ohio too, and don't see where OC would be physically offensive to any person or persons, nor that it would present a risk of physical harm, provided that it is done in a responsible manner by a person who is legally able to be in possession of said weapon. A disorderly issued under those circumstances would be tossed in a second by any even halfway competent attorney.

No lawful or reasonable purpose of the offender.

What exactly is your lawful and reasonable purpose to carry an assault rifle in a parking lot or what have you?

Yes, I understand your second amendment rights and all that. Mama and her two little kids don't deserve to see that when they go to the McDonald's play place.
The law is the law. Ohio is an open carry state. The law is not subject to your interpretation of what people 'deserve to see'. Again, the law is the law.

But of course, it appears that Consitutional rights are secondary to your opinion of what folks 'deserve to see' or not see, for that matter.


This has been discussed at length with supervisors and our prosecutors, each of them, given the circumstances, would have no issue with an arrest under those circumstances.

Then your supervisors and your prosecutors are doing it wrong.

Wear as many guns as you want, wear them concealed...
Makes sense.
...the way it should be done.

Ah man... You were doing so well - until just then. Since Ohio is an open carry state, I guess 'the way it should be done' would be however the bearer of the firearm sees fit, regardless of interpretation by an individual officer.

Don't get me wrong. Personally, I think OC is silly. Would I arrest someone for it? Nope. Provided of course, it was being done in a safe, responsible manner by someone who is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm.

Like it or not, it is a legal right within the state of Ohio, regardless of how I (you, or anyone else) feel(s) about it.
So you're not looking at anything objectively are you?
Oh, the irony.
Again I reiterate, you do that in my neck of the woods and you WILL be proned out and arrested.
And if your pretense for that arrest was a simple OC, the arresting officer WILL be in violation of state law, regardless of how it works in your 'neck of the woods'.

Hello YouTube, Hello feeding the OC antagonist with just what he wants (attention), and Hello to the very real possibility of a decent lawyer making that arrest one HELL of a lot more hassle for you than it was worth, simply because you couldn't (or wouldn't) keep your ego in check, or because you feel you should be able to interpret state law via your own sense of what should and should not be.

As stated before - the law is the law. Uphold it proudly, responsibly and properly, or perhaps consider a new gig.

Sammael
10-11-2012, 07:03
As to the video itself:

Those guys were idiots fishing for a reaction. Officer J. Estes handled it like a pro.

The 'Libertarians' acted like complete ****** bags from the word 'go'. They baited him, he didn't fall for it. Professionalism throughout the entire encounter.

No ego, no frustration, nothing - he simply refused to take the bait.

Hats off to Officer Estes. Well played, sir. Well played.

frizz
10-11-2012, 11:44
I think you should change the title to a very professional police officer dealing with buttheads. The officer did a very good job dealing with people that only want the attention. There was no other reason for this video. Good job officer Estes. Why do people have to make a difficult even tougher. I am all for firearms ownership and carry but there also needs to be some common sense applied here. If there would have been someone hurt/shot and the police would not have tried to maintain public safety, I sure there would have been outcry by the public asking why no one checked on someone carrying an AR down a street. Grow up a little. That is is a perfect example of why some people think of gun owners as nutjobs.


You missed the edit, which I added before you replied.

"EDIT: No, I'm not serious. The cop did a great job."

11A
10-11-2012, 14:14
Glock-7,

Are you an LEO in Ohio or do you just live there?

The reason I ask is because you are bashing Ohio Copper for answers that in my region of Ohio, much of what he has pointed out would most likely be upheld. Granted, different district's case law is different, but one can easily make a case for disorderly conduct depending on how a long gun is carried.

Yes, Ohio is an open carry state. But, that is not a free invitation to carry anything you want however you want. I believe that is the point that Ohio Copper is trying to make in this case.

razdog76
10-11-2012, 15:02
To add to 11A's response, the penalty for the state law is a minor misdemeanor, which means it is a non-arrestable offense. Many municipalities have their own (version) ordinance which may be an arrestable offense.

The purpose is not to prevent people from living their lives, the purpose is to pull the reins when a person's zaniness encroaches on other citizens rights.

So, to look at another way, if an individual wants to press it, they can pay the retainer to a halfway competent attorney for something equivalent to a speeding ticket to maybe get tossed or not.

Ohio Cop
10-11-2012, 15:05
Glock-7,

Are you an LEO in Ohio or do you just live there?

The reason I ask is because you are bashing Ohio Copper for answers that in my region of Ohio, much of what he has pointed out would most likely be upheld. Granted, different district's case law is different, but one can easily make a case for disorderly conduct depending on how a long gun is carried.

Yes, Ohio is an open carry state. But, that is not a free invitation to carry anything you want however you want. I believe that is the point that Ohio Copper is trying to make in this case.

Much appreciated and it would be upheld here, it's already been discussed and videos shown to prosecutors.

Ohio Cop
10-11-2012, 15:06
A few points...

Hmm, I'm in Ohio too, and don't see where OC would be physically offensive to any person or persons, nor that it would present a risk of physical harm, provided that it is done in a responsible manner by a person who is legally able to be in possession of said weapon. A disorderly issued under those circumstances would be tossed in a second by any even halfway competent attorney.

The law is the law. Ohio is an open carry state. The law is not subject to your interpretation of what people 'deserve to see'. Again, the law is the law.

But of course, it appears that Consitutional rights are secondary to your opinion of what folks 'deserve to see' or not see, for that matter.

Then your supervisors and your prosecutors are doing it wrong.

Makes sense.

Ah man... You were doing so well - until just then. Since Ohio is an open carry state, I guess 'the way it should be done' would be however the bearer of the firearm sees fit, regardless of interpretation by an individual officer.

Don't get me wrong. Personally, I think OC is silly. Would I arrest someone for it? Nope. Provided of course, it was being done in a safe, responsible manner by someone who is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm.

Like it or not, it is a legal right within the state of Ohio, regardless of how I (you, or anyone else) feel(s) about it.

Oh, the irony.

And if your pretense for that arrest was a simple OC, the arresting officer WILL be in violation of state law, regardless of how it works in your 'neck of the woods'.

Hello YouTube, Hello feeding the OC antagonist with just what he wants (attention), and Hello to the very real possibility of a decent lawyer making that arrest one HELL of a lot more hassle for you than it was worth, simply because you couldn't (or wouldn't) keep your ego in check, or because you feel you should be able to interpret state law via your own sense of what should and should not be.

As stated before - the law is the law. Uphold it proudly, responsibly and properly, or perhaps consider a new gig.

Why would you pick certain points to go after and not read the totality of the posts and topic? Has nothing to do with ego it has to do with violation of the law and applicable responses.

Kingarthurhk
10-11-2012, 15:13
I'm going to say go back and re-read the thread I didn't agree with what they did as far as being *********s but I'll defend their right to 1) carry a weapon in public and 2) be *********s even though I don't agree with it. I also complemented the officer in the way he handled the situation. It's how it should be handled.

I hate the Westboro Church ****ers but I'll defend their first amendment right to be *********s because the first amendment applies to everyone. Even people who are dicks. But then I exercise my right to participate in the Patriot Guard and block them.

Do I agree with the way some OCers go about their business? Nope. But they have the right to do so and carry a firearm.

The Police DO NOT have the right to disarm or arrest them or detain them longer than is necessary or at all.

Actually, he has the legal right to conduct a Terry stop.

Kingarthurhk
10-11-2012, 15:35
Not all OCC people are like this:

http://www.urantiansojourn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nuns_with_guns_big.jpg

Some are like this:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MJmdhkZTJaI/0.jpg

Either was, it is worth checking it out.

Kingarthurhk
10-11-2012, 17:02
Actually I think at one point they were told they could leave if they wanted to. I'd have to go back to re-watch the video. Those guys were *********s no doubt about it, and I maintain that being a ******r is not only not illegal but constitutionally protected, but most of my comments weren't directed at that video. Go back a page or two and I posted a video of a Marine officer that got stopped in Wyoming and got hassled by some unprofessional deputies that's where most of my "angst" is coming from I guess.

Disturbing link on how service and OC doesn't mean a damn thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-ycSkoYfc&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dvetran%2Bshoots%2Bpolice%2Bofficer%26oq %3Dvetran%2Bshoots%2Bpolice%2Bofficer%26gs_l%3Dyoutube.12...11854.16525.0.18337.28.28.0.0.0.0.123.20 86.25j2.27.0...0.0...1ac.1.f_UZzK-izkQ

blastfact
10-11-2012, 19:11
I know these videos upset folks. But honestly I don't know why. In Or. they are not breaking any law. So whats the problem? If folks calling in don't have half a brain cell and don't know the law. Is that the OCers problem, muchless the police problem?

Now here it is a different game. On Nov. 1st if you have a CC permit you can then OC with limits to caliber and barrel length. ANY Police contact one has to state they are carrying and present your permit and ID when the officer is comphy with your intended body movements need to produce the government doc's. Be it concealed or open. And they can secure your weapon. No and if or butt's about it. And I will follow the letter of the law here and states that honor my permit. And honestly I don't have a over all issue with presenting. I know the cops will get some good warrant catches and there will be convicted felons picked up.

Around here I'm sure it will be a police nightmare in OKC, Tulsa, Edmund, Norman, Broken Arrow, Owasso and a few other useless places in the state. But on the other hand,,, the public should be educated. Just because a person is carrying does not mean they are a threat to you or anybody else. People really need to understand that if legal. They are more than likely over reacting. And should be held accountable IMHO. If I called in every speeder that went down my street. At some point that would be problem for police and I would get my ass chewed. Even though my street is known as a sort of bypass in town and 50 mph seems to be the norm in a 25 mph posted neighborhood.

It's going to get interesting here. And yes I will OC. And the weapon will be a G20 with a .360 BG or my PF-9 as bug.

frizz
10-11-2012, 20:33
Disturbing link on how service and OC doesn't mean a damn thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-ycSkoYfc&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dvetran%2Bshoots%2Bpolice%2Bofficer%26oq %3Dvetran%2Bshoots%2Bpolice%2Bofficer%26gs_l%3Dyoutube.12...11854.16525.0.18337.28.28.0.0.0.0.123.20 86.25j2.27.0...0.0...1ac.1.f_UZzK-izkQ

I have seen this one before, and it still gives me the creeps.

When the killer pulled the Carbine out, I kept thinking "shoot him! shoot him!" But I wasn't there facing a whackjob who was brandishing an effective rifle (that shoots a .308 110g @ 1990fps.)

I suspect that the ingrained instinct against killing other people may have had a role in the end of this man's life.

I note that the cop 1) was sacred to the point of terror, but didn't panic; and 2) died "with his boots on."

jeepinbandit
10-11-2012, 21:17
Disturbing link on how service and OC doesn't mean a damn thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-ycSkoYfc&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dvetran%2Bshoots%2Bpolice%2Bofficer%26oq %3Dvetran%2Bshoots%2Bpolice%2Bofficer%26gs_l%3Dyoutube.12...11854.16525.0.18337.28.28.0.0.0.0.123.20 86.25j2.27.0...0.0...1ac.1.f_UZzK-izkQ

You're really comparing a Marine who never reached or pulled his pistol and was cooperative, with another service member who pulled a M-1 Carbine out of his truck and engaged an officer?

Good comparison.

rockapede
10-11-2012, 22:43
You're really comparing a Marine who never reached or pulled his pistol and was cooperative with, another service member who pulled a M-1 Carbine out of his truck and engaged an officer?

Good comparison.

***deleted for HUA syndrome on my part***

keenshooter
10-11-2012, 23:19
Almost 4 minutes in, and he is just doing his job. 6 min and still nothing. Seems like a great guy. Min 9, activist your very professional...

Checked the ar gave it back, for his safety asked them not to load it. Wow this cops a great additions to Law Enforcement! Even kept to his word and showed him his rifle!


PS before you say I'm hating I open carry alot.
When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rih1ogXCxAs&feature=endscreen

EDIT: No, I'm not serious. The cop did a great job.

frizz
10-11-2012, 23:40
Almost 4 minutes in, and he is just doing his job. 6 min and still nothing. Seems like a great guy. Min 9, activist your very professional...

Checked the ar gave it back, for his safety asked them not to load it. Wow this cops a great additions to Law Enforcement! Even kept to his word and showed him his rifle!


PS before you say I'm hating I open carry alot.

Ummmmm, yeaaaah. Take another look at my opening post, which you quoted. It has this line in it...


EDIT: No, I'm not serious. The cop did a great job.

frizz
10-12-2012, 00:02
You're really comparing a Marine who never reached or pulled his pistol and was cooperative, with another service member who pulled a M-1 Carbine out of his truck and engaged an officer?

Good comparison.

His point is very simple: Being in the armed services is not a relevant fact; it is just a "heartstrings" puller. It wouldn't matter if Mother Teresa had been on that motorcycle.

Kingarthurhk
10-12-2012, 15:43
You're really comparing a Marine who never reached or pulled his pistol and was cooperative, with another service member who pulled a M-1 Carbine out of his truck and engaged an officer?

Good comparison.

Yup. I am saying, it doesn't matter who they are. Anyone OCing is a potential danger, and a Terry stop is not out of the question. People don't staple their Cariculum Vitae stapled to their foreheads walking around.

jeepinbandit
10-12-2012, 16:29
Except for the guy wasn't open carrying the M-1 Carbine. It was in his truck and he pulled it out of the truck after he was stopped.

By that reasoning everyone is subject to a Terry Stop because hell in Texas there's a good chance they have a concealed weapon under their shirt.

Kingarthurhk
10-12-2012, 16:39
Except for the guy wasn't open carrying the M-1 Carbine. It was in his truck and he pulled it out of the truck after he was stopped.

By that reasoning everyone is subject to a Terry Stop because hell in Texas there's a good chance they have a concealed weapon under their shirt.

Its all in how you are able to articulate your actions. He was openly carrying the weapon in his vehicle, loaded and ready to go.

A kid with a .45 can kill you just as dead. When there is a weapon in play, it is worth taking notice and investigating as necessary.

I remember stopping a vehicle hauling butt out of a known smuggling area with lights out. In the end it ended up being the ranch hand screwing around. But, he had a 12 gauge shotgun on the seat.

I told my partner rather loudly, "Hey, that's a nice shotgun." That way he knew it was there as well.

The guy was clean and we sent him on his way.

Had he been smuggling drugs with that shotgun, it would haven gotten really ugly real fast.

The point? When there are guns in play an abundance of caution is not only prudent, but necessary.

You can do libertarian gymnastics all day long, but when it is your life on the line, I suspect you might look at things a tad bit differently.

frizz
10-12-2012, 17:16
Except for the guy wasn't open carrying the M-1 Carbine. It was in his truck and he pulled it out of the truck after he was stopped.


It seems that you are doing this deliberately. His point is not hard to understand: someone being a veteran doesn't mean a thing in these situations.

There are many people who have worn the uniform -- some with distinction -- who turned out to be horrible people. Case in point, the man in the video with the M1 Carbine.

doktarZues
10-13-2012, 12:27
That is one cool cop and a consummate professional IMO. The open carry activists (read: agitators) are some of the biggest buffoons on the planet..still working from my opinion.

Morris
10-13-2012, 17:03
Christ on a cracker! I go away and this thread is still bubbling?

I had better get the popper warned up . . .

MikeNH
10-13-2012, 17:45
God bless that officer for being so patient with those idiots.

Beware Owner
12-01-2012, 12:20
God bless that officer for being so patient with those idiots.

Amen to that.

steveksux
12-01-2012, 16:17
That is good but this is better....:rofl:

Black Betty Epic Beard Man - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxONJCQVmc0)

That ain't no internet forum, you can't just claim to be a MFer and they send you an official Tshirt and people write 300 page threads about whether you are or aren't. They verify you.

Think twice before you mess with a guy with a shirt that says I am a MFer. That's your only warning. Proceed with caution.

Epic Beard men don't play.

Randy

glock30user
12-01-2012, 17:02
I think the cop did his job just fine.