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fowl intent
10-07-2012, 15:11
So, I have a good friend who went to Ohio for a week of deer hunting. Being a good ole NC boy, he took his handgun along with him. Well, he got stopped for speeding, and I'm not sure how or why this came up, but he volunteered that he had a handgun in the car. Turns out that it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio, or at least that is what his hunting buddy relayed to me. Unfortunately he will have to spend the weekend in jail because he has to appear before a judge to have a bond set. This guy is in his 50's and has never seen the inside of a jail before this incident.

This started me thinking how careful you have to be when you travel from one state to another. Does anybody know if in fact it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio? What if there was not a round in the chamber (of a semi-auto)? I assume that having a concealed carry permit from NC would not have changed the situation. It sure would be nice to have some sort of reciprocity between the states, so as not to have to deal with all of the quirky laws of different states.

Anybody else with a horror story to tell?

Jonesee
10-07-2012, 15:23
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

RonS
10-07-2012, 15:30
Darned shame about your friend, hope he gets off with something less than a felony due to past lack of record etc.

Yeah, Ohio has shall issue CCH and no registration etc but carrying in your car is a big no no. Empty, unloaded and ammo apart IIRC unless you are a CCH holder. And then announce that you are at first contact, don't handle unless directed.

686Owner
10-07-2012, 15:30
I would start here http://www.handgunlaw.us

Hamilton Burger
10-07-2012, 15:32
Know the carry and hunting laws in your own and any other state you may be carrying/hunting in. There are out-of-state CC permits (FL and UT among others) recognized in multi states, but car carry is even more highly restricted in some states. Laws for carrying when hunting will be covered in the hunting regs book you can get where they sell hunting licenses.

It sure would be nice to have some sort of reciprocity between the states, so as not to have to deal with all of the quirky laws of different states.

Until the perfect world arrives, with the right comes the responsibilty, and in your friend's case it was his responsibilty and nobody elses. Sorry I can't work up much sympathy :dunno:

Reissman
10-07-2012, 15:35
Previous post answers my question

G29Reload
10-07-2012, 15:39
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

Nonsense. Unless you beleive in fairy tales or that nothing ever happens in the woods and you don't have to worry about bears, or feral dogs, or stumbling over someones meth lab, then yeah, the woods are perfectly safe. :upeyes:



And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Then you're not carrying, you're just transporting.

And a carjacker's dream.:shocked:

Hef
10-07-2012, 15:42
I have a SC CWP and I can legally carry in OH due to reciprocity. I may be mistaken but I thought NC had such an agreement as well. Does he have a NC permit?

Upgrayedd
10-07-2012, 16:02
I have a SC CWP and I can legally carry in OH due to reciprocity. I may be mistaken but I thought NC had such an agreement as well. Does he have a NC permit?

OH and NC have reciprocity. I know because I'm from OH and went on vacation in western NC last month. The laws are stupid but your buddy should have his permit if he's going to carry.

I'm not sure you can call this a nightmare. Try to look at it from the officer's point of view. You have to be an idiot to try speeding in OH. Loaded handgun + no permit = felony around here.

ignantmike
10-07-2012, 16:06
i'm sure he has no ccw permit.....

Hamilton Burger
10-07-2012, 16:09
Niether here nor there, but in California where the gun laws are at their craziest IIRC...

As far as travelling, they want unloaded handguns in a locked container within the trunk or other inaccessible location. Outside the vehicle open carry of an unloaded (empty chambers, no magazines) handgun is allowed, while a loaded handgun may be carried by a sportsman actively engaged in fishing or hunting, or while going to and/or coming back from fishing or hunting. :headscratch:

tsmo1066
10-07-2012, 16:17
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

I'm not sure where you spend time in the wilderness, but in South Texas it's generally a stupid idea NOT to be carrying a hangun when in the hinterlands - not because of the wildlife, but because of the drug traffickers and "coyotes" that run illegals through many such remote tracts of land.

Used to be that the illegals kept to themselves and were no problem, even when encountered. In the last two decades, however, gangs like MS13 have gotten deeply involved in the "coyote" racket of shepherding illegals and encounters with those guys can get dicey.

That being said, always know the gun laws in the area where you will be carrying as well as the areas you will be driving through to get there.

raven11
10-07-2012, 16:23
Anybody else with a horror story to tell?

Not really a horror story but when I went through pre-deployment training I felt the urge to own a M9 so I went down to the local gunshop and filled out all the paperwork, until he found out I was 19 so I couldn't own a pistol


Man did I feel bad I thought I was going to get reported to the police for sure

Jonesee
10-07-2012, 16:25
Nonsense. Unless you beleive in fairy tales or that nothing ever happens in the woods and you don't have to worry about bears, or feral dogs, or stumbling over someones meth lab, then yeah, the woods are perfectly safe. :

When you are hunting, you are already carrying a weapon.

You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot you have been in and out of the area 30 times before scouting and setting up.

Been hunting much?

I've hunted all over the country thanks to moving all over. Every place I have ever hunted and the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back if you packed a pistol to head into the woods. (i admit to not hunting Alaska yet) maybe that is just me and my almost 50 years hunting. But that is the way I see it.

Carry a pistol while scouting before season in some parts of the country I can understand. Carrying a long gun pre-season may get you written up. But during season? Never.

ede
10-07-2012, 16:39
From SE Ohio and I wouldn't go in the woods unarmed. Between dogs, dope growers, meth labs and the other normal stuff you might run into having a firearm or two is a good thing.

boomhower
10-07-2012, 16:42
I certainly feel for your buddy but he put himself in the spot he's in. He was carrying a concealed gun without a permit. That's in big no no in most states. He knew that was illegal, he took the chance and got busted. Now he probably didn't figure it was a felony, I sure wouldn't have but still not worth the risk. He should have gotten his permit as NC permits are honored in Ohio. He needs to get a good lawyer and hope one of two things. Either he gets a nice plea deal down to a misdemeanor or there was something wrong with the stop and/or search.

I can certainly understand him wanting a handgun in the woods. The part I'm from is full of meth labs. He just needs to make sure he's doing it right.

LASTRESORT20
10-07-2012, 16:45
Nonsense. Unless you beleive in fairy tales or that nothing ever happens in the woods and you don't have to worry about bears, or feral dogs, or stumbling over someones meth lab, then yeah, the woods are perfectly safe. :upeyes:



Then you're not carrying, you're just transporting.

And a carjacker's dream.:shocked:



Amen brother!

Reissman
10-07-2012, 16:53
When you are hunting, you are already carrying a weapon.

You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot you have been in and out of the area 30 times before scouting and setting up.

Been hunting much?

I've hunted all over the country thanks to moving all over. Every place I have ever hunted and the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back if you packed a pistol to head into the woods. (i admit to not hunting Alaska yet) maybe that is just me and my almost 50 years hunting. But that is the way I see it.

Carry a pistol while scouting before season in some parts of the country I can understand. Carrying a long gun pre-season may get you written up. But during season? Never.

Bet those hunters that got killed in WI a couple years ago wish they had a handgun.

bmoore
10-07-2012, 17:02
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

.

Complete hogwash, are you really serious? When I am hiked in 3 miles into mt lion country blowing a distress handcall for coyote I want my G20 10mm when Mr. Tom crawls up my back, not a bolt 22-250 with a 22" barrel to try to swing around.

bkkd
10-07-2012, 17:16
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Kentucky just passed a law allowing you to carry a handgun when hunting or fishing, even when bowhunting you can carry a firearm......hmmmmm wonder why?

Jonesee
10-07-2012, 17:18
Sorry guys. I believe what I believe.

You guys go in there with your 12" elephant skinner knives and black weapons and hand guns strapped to your leg. You will feel safe and I will laugh at you. And, we will both be tickled.


Been hunting alone since I was 9. I never once felt the need for a hand gun too. neither did my grandad, my dad and now my 3 grown sons. I've never hunted with a serious hunter that carried one either.
Again, I have hunted the plains, southern US and the Rockies. I've never hunted Alaska where it may be wise.

But to each his own.

Pawcatch@aol.co
10-07-2012, 17:28
Sorry guys. I believe what I believe.

You guys go in there with your 12" elephant skinner knives and black weapons and hand guns strapped to your leg. You will feel safe and I will laugh at you. And, we will both be tickled.


Been hunting alone since I was 9. I never once felt the need for a hand gun too. neither did my grandad, my dad and now my 3 grown sons. I've never hunted with a serious hunter that carried one either.
Again, I have hunted the plains, southern US and the Rockies. I've never hunted Alaska where it may be wise.

But to each his own.


What about people who hunt with handguns?Like Larry Weishuhn.

TheExplorer
10-07-2012, 17:34
It is unfortunate, but you must be responsible when traveling to different states. As posted, the handgun site is like the bible for me.

Hef
10-07-2012, 17:40
It is unfortunate, but you must be responsible when traveling to different states. As posted, the handgun site is like the bible for me.

Yes. Ignorance of the law does not excuse one from it.

alwaysshootin
10-07-2012, 17:40
Complete hogwash, are you really serious? When I am hiked in 3 miles into mt lion country blowing a distress handcall for coyote I want my G20 10mm when Mr. Tom crawls up my back, not a bolt 22-250 with a 22" barrel to try to swing around.

Lets just hope, the one that laughs, at those, who feel it's necessary to always carry, is the one who wishes he had a carry! That way we, may have a giggle, and laugh, behind his back.:rofl: :rofl::rofl:

GVFlyer
10-07-2012, 17:46
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Sadly, this is an amazingly naive post. It must be nice to live in a world of unicorns and rainbows.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/photogun2-1.jpg

tantrix
10-07-2012, 17:55
And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Then you're not carrying...you're transporting.

When I carry in a car, I just get in the driver's seat with it in my holster. Or, alternatively...I can take it out, sit it on the dash in broad daylight, and drive around with it like that. That's carrying.

stolenphot0
10-07-2012, 17:59
In Ohio, even if a magazine is loaded and not in the gun, it is considered a loaded gun. Sorry for his troubles, but it's election year and his judge may want to set an example. They've done it before. Where in Ohio was he?

dherloc
10-07-2012, 18:02
One big reason to have a concealed carry permit.

hamster
10-07-2012, 18:03
In Ohio, even if a magazine is loaded and not in the gun, it is considered a loaded gun. Sorry for his troubles, but it's election year and his judge may want to set an example. They've done it before. Where in Ohio was he?

Ohio laws are getting better but we do have crazy stuff still on the books.

Even if the gun and loaded magazine were locked up in separate parts of the car in a safe the driver didn't have a key to, it is still considered carrying a loaded weapon and thus illegal. UNLESS the guy has a Concealed carry permit. If he has one for NC, he'd best get a copy of it prior to seeing the judge.

TheExplorer
10-07-2012, 18:08
I hope he is shown some leniency based on his age and lack of criminal history, but one thing that is guaranteed is that this will be an expensive lesson.

stolenphot0
10-07-2012, 18:18
Ohio laws are getting better but we do have crazy stuff still on the books.

Even if the gun and loaded magazine were locked up in separate parts of the car in a safe the driver didn't have a key to, it is still considered carrying a loaded weapon and thus illegal. UNLESS the guy has a Concealed carry permit. If he has one for NC, he'd best get a copy of it prior to seeing the judge.

yep I have my CHL and covered. Hope he does and can get it to Ohio by Tuesday. Monday is Columbus Day, not sure if the courts are open Monday.

Wyoming
10-07-2012, 18:32
Ohio laws are getting better but we do have crazy stuff still on the books.

Even if the gun and loaded magazine were locked up in separate parts of the car in a safe the driver didn't have a key to, it is still considered carrying a loaded weapon and thus illegal. UNLESS the guy has a Concealed carry permit. If he has one for NC, he'd best get a copy of it prior to seeing the judge.

Left Ohio in 1979 and gun laws was one of the reasons. I could go on about what I saw as hypocritical about law enforcement but don't want to spend the time typing. (I'm very slow and it would take hours).

Went to a family reunion this summer and one of my cousins, a retired deputy, made a snide comment why he never came to visit me in Wyoming. Too many of us carry guns and he wouldn't be comfortable.:upeyes:

BTW, I was carrying concealed and he didn't even know.:rofl:

Too bad your friend didn't come to Wyoming to hunt. A loaded handgun in a vehicle was never illegal since I have been here. Now Wyoming is a no permit state like VT, AK and AZ.

I do and will maintain my Wyoming and Utah permit. Comes in handy when I travel.

fnfalman
10-07-2012, 18:36
Nonsense. Unless you beleive in fairy tales or that nothing ever happens in the woods and you don't have to worry about bears, or feral dogs, or stumbling over someones meth lab, then yeah, the woods are perfectly safe. :upeyes:



Because my .300 Winchester Magnum rifle fires too weak of a cartridge and I'd need a 10mm to protect myself against creatures of all kinds?

jp3975
10-07-2012, 18:40
And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

And what does it matter if its loaded and on you?

One thing ive never understood is laws that disarm drivers.

If someone wants to kill someone illegally, or kill a cop, the law isnt going to stop those people from killing.

costanza187
10-07-2012, 18:41
It's a shame it happened. It's been said before, if you are going somewhere it is your own responsibility to find out the laws of the land first.

r3dot
10-07-2012, 18:41
keep us updated

Shinytop
10-07-2012, 19:09
Personally I do not have my Florida CCW yet. I have an appointment for the 15th to apply for it and expect it to take 4-8 weeks before I have it. Until then I travel to ranges with gun unloaded and in the trunk in Florida and Alabama where my range is. I have looked up the reciprocity page on the web page for FL CCW and have a list of the 16 states that do not honor Florida's CCW. With the gun laws being what they are I think it foolish to carry and not be aware of the laws. I feel for your friend and don't feel he had felonious intent. But many law enforcement people will not give one a second chance on that offense.

tsmo1066
10-07-2012, 19:10
Because my .300 Winchester Magnum rifle fires too weak of a cartridge and I'd need a 10mm to protect myself against creatures of all kinds?

In South Texas, at least, the pistol is handy because most encounters with illegals and the cartel "coyotes" that run them take place with very little notice and at very close distances, where a full-sized, bolt-action rifle is of little use. The illegals and "coyotes" normally hide in brush or take cover when they fear someone might be around, and when you encounter them it's normally by surprise and at close distance.

A handgun is very much a plus in situations like that.

NEOH212
10-07-2012, 19:11
Woops! I bet he won't do that again. He should have researched the laws better and ever better yet, had a license to carry.

The firearms laws as a whole do suck though. I hope they go easy on him since it's his first offense (I think...:whistling:)

NEOH212
10-07-2012, 19:12
One big reason to have a concealed carry permit.

:perfect10:

Armchair Commando
10-07-2012, 21:16
When you are hunting, you are already carrying a weapon.

You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot you have been in and out of the area 30 times before scouting and setting up.

Been hunting much?

I've hunted all over the country thanks to moving all over. Every place I have ever hunted and the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back if you packed a pistol to head into the woods. (i admit to not hunting Alaska yet) maybe that is just me and my almost 50 years hunting. But that is the way I see it.

Carry a pistol while scouting before season in some parts of the country I can understand. Carrying a long gun pre-season may get you written up. But during season? Never.

Yeah i hunt with a Bow and the bow is not a good weapon to have to defend yourself with. And i been bowhunting for 15 years, Every serious hunter i know carries a handgun with them when hunting! Your living in a dream world if you think the woods are entirely safe place to be, I've been hunting in the UP in Michigan and been 12 miles in away from anything resembling civilization.

Armchair Commando
10-07-2012, 21:19
Because my .300 Winchester Magnum rifle fires too weak of a cartridge and I'd need a 10mm to protect myself against creatures of all kinds?

Last time i checked you can't use a 300 WM in any of the places i hunt except northern michigan for deer hunting!

Armchair Commando
10-07-2012, 21:20
Left Ohio in 1979 and gun laws was one of the reasons. I could go on about what I saw as hypocritical about law enforcement but don't want to spend the time typing. (I'm very slow and it would take hours).

Went to a family reunion this summer and one of my cousins, a retired deputy, made a snide comment why he never came to visit me in Wyoming. Too many of us carry guns and he wouldn't be comfortable.:upeyes:

BTW, I was carrying concealed and he didn't even know.:rofl:

Too bad your friend didn't come to Wyoming to hunt. A loaded handgun in a vehicle was never illegal since I have been here. Now Wyoming is a no permit state like VT, AK and AZ.

I do and will maintain my Wyoming and Utah permit. Comes in handy when I travel.

Ohio has better gun laws than 90% of the nation!

frank4570
10-07-2012, 21:27
It's kind of silly to go to an entirely different state while carrying a gun without researching the laws.

THEPOPE
10-07-2012, 21:31
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Don't know where you hunt or fish or hike, but I have encountered so many strange characters in the wilds and swamps while fishing, and I've seen the pictures and texts and trash they leave behind, to carry EVERYwhere in the woods...

Three instances this year alone to warrant carry ...of a defensive weapon.

Indiana has state park carry now. Good.

I am OuT.....:cool:

Snaps
10-07-2012, 21:33
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

I have hunted all my life and have NEVER gone without a handgun. I don't believe in playing make believe where the world is a happy place. Those who do it's a sure sign they're detached from reality.


And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.
Now boy I tell ya, that makes about as much sense as carrying a bow with an empty quiver into the woods

HollowHead
10-07-2012, 21:38
I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.


Playing Nintendo Duck Hunter doesn't count. HH

bush pilot
10-07-2012, 21:50
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

I'm guessing your hunting experience is limited to the token fed range at Cabelas. The vast majority of my hunting is done with handguns, glad I don't heed your advice. Seriously, have you ever actually stepped foot in the woods?

jp3975
10-07-2012, 21:58
Ohio has better gun laws than 90% of the nation!

Felony for having a gun in the car? Sure as hell doesnt sound like it.

jp3975
10-07-2012, 21:59
Deer Attack - YouTube

:whistling::rofl:

Pawcatch@aol.co
10-07-2012, 22:02
Felony for having a gun in the car? Sure as hell doesnt sound like it.

Wouldn't that be a felony for having a loaded gun in the car without a permit?

cowboywannabe
10-07-2012, 22:06
Nc and ohio have ccw reciprocity. Why didnt your buddy have a ccw license?

Ohio Copper
10-07-2012, 22:19
Interested to hear more details. Perhaps I can be of assistance.


Sent from my PKE meter.

alwaysshootin
10-07-2012, 22:44
Playing Nintendo Duck Hunter doesn't count. HH

You are correct! Although even when playing Nintendo, I have a G29 on my hip!:dunno: :supergrin:

ithaca_deerslayer
10-07-2012, 23:09
When you are hunting, you are already carrying a weapon.

You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot you have been in and out of the area 30 times before scouting and setting up.

Been hunting much?

I've hunted all over the country thanks to moving all over. Every place I have ever hunted and the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back if you packed a pistol to head into the woods. (i admit to not hunting Alaska yet) maybe that is just me and my almost 50 years hunting. But that is the way I see it.

Carry a pistol while scouting before season in some parts of the country I can understand. Carrying a long gun pre-season may get you written up. But during season? Never.

Written up for carrying a long gun pre-season? Just pick something virtually always in season, like coyote or red squirrel.

Honestly, I can't imagine why you are so anti-handgun. You think you are the only one to hunt? I've hunted my whole life too. Nobody I know is laughing at a guy for carrying a handgun. Some guys might not carry, or might just keep it concealed and you don't know they have it. Other guys simply get a "cool, can I shoot it?" type reaction.

But what is this "pack a pistol to head into the woods" stuff? There is always a pistol on me, you just can't see it unless I decide on the .44 mag revolver. Were they laughing at me when I shot the deer from 35 yards with my iron sighted revolver and didn't even have a long gun on me?

It's too bad the OP's buddy got in trouble not knowing another state's anti-gun laws. But I don't know why someone on a gun forum is against carrying a handgun.

fnfalman
10-07-2012, 23:15
In South Texas, at least, the pistol is handy because most encounters with illegals and the cartel "coyotes" that run them take place with very little notice and at very close distances, where a full-sized, bolt-action rifle is of little use. The illegals and "coyotes" normally hide in brush or take cover when they fear someone might be around, and when you encounter them it's normally by surprise and at close distance.

A handgun is very much a plus in situations like that.

So I'll sling the loaded rifle that I have in my hand so that I can play gunslinger?

Okay...

fnfalman
10-07-2012, 23:17
Last time i checked you can't use a 300 WM in any of the places i hunt except northern michigan for deer hunting!

Okay, a thutty-thutty lever gun then.

Should I sling my loaded Winchester/Marlin so that I can bring the handgun into play?

ithaca_deerslayer
10-07-2012, 23:22
Another thing, if you don't want to carry a handgun, then fine, don't.

If you want to buy your animal already cooked in a restaurant, fine.

If you want to buy your already dead animal from the grocery store, fine.

You want to raise your own animals and slaughter them with a knife, then fine.

You want to go out and chase animals with a rifle, fine.

You want to go after animals with a handgun, fine.

You want to stalk animals with a muzzleloader, fine.

You want to pursue animals with a bow, fine.

You want to trap animals, fine.

What the heck makes one type of those things so much more superior than the others? What makes someone who does the one want to put down people who do the other?

ithaca_deerslayer
10-07-2012, 23:31
Okay, a thutty-thutty lever gun then.

Should I sling my loaded Winchester/Marlin so that I can bring the handgun into play?

I don't know, maybe you do what I did and leave your rifle on the ground to climb a tree and break some branches out of the way, before you planned on bringing your rifle up.

Only, to your great surprise all the freaking noise you made with the breaking branches actually called in a monster buck, as you stare at him with your rifle 15 feet below you at the base of the tree, and your hand frantically digging under your coat for your Glock 10mm :)

Lone_Wolfe
10-07-2012, 23:48
Another thing, if you don't want to carry a handgun, then fine, don't.

If you want to buy your animal already cooked in a restaurant, fine.

If you want to buy your already dead animal from the grocery store, fine.

You want to raise your own animals and slaughter them with a knife, then fine.

You want to go out and chase animals with a rifle, fine.

You want to go after animals with a handgun, fine.

You want to stalk animals with a muzzleloader, fine.

You want to pursue animals with a bow, fine.

You want to trap animals, fine.

What the heck makes one type of those things so much more superior than the others? What makes someone who does the one want to put down people who do the other?

OK, you just ruined Glocktalk, you have to leave now. What will people do if they can't do put each other down? :rofl: :rofl:

JuneyBooney
10-08-2012, 00:19
i'm sure he has no ccw permit.....

That sucks. :shocked:

certifiedfunds
10-08-2012, 02:53
Then you're not carrying...you're transporting.

When I carry in a car, I just get in the driver's seat with it in my holster. Or, alternatively...I can take it out, sit it on the dash in broad daylight, and drive around with it like that. That's carrying.

At any given time I have 3 guns loaded and concealed in my vehicle. When I get in that usually makes 4.

Snaps
10-08-2012, 03:16
Another thing, if you don't want to carry a handgun, then fine, don't.

If you want to buy your animal already cooked in a restaurant, fine.

If you want to buy your already dead animal from the grocery store, fine.

You want to raise your own animals and slaughter them with a knife, then fine.

You want to go out and chase animals with a rifle, fine.

You want to go after animals with a handgun, fine.

You want to stalk animals with a muzzleloader, fine.

You want to pursue animals with a bow, fine.

You want to trap animals, fine.

What the heck makes one type of those things so much more superior than the others? What makes someone who does the one want to put down people who do the other?
what about crossbows? I'm leaning toward getting one for next year.

Bren
10-08-2012, 05:25
This started me thinking how careful you have to be when you travel from one state to another. Does anybody know if in fact it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio? What if there was not a round in the chamber (of a semi-auto)? I assume that having a concealed carry permit from NC would not have changed the situation. It sure would be nice to have some sort of reciprocity between the states, so as not to have to deal with all of the quirky laws of different states.

Anybody else with a horror story to tell?

Your friend's entire problem could have been avoided by getting a concealed carry permit, or by not volunteering information, or by not speeding. It took him several dumb steps to get put in jail.

Felony:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16
2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.
...
(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.
...
A violation of division (B) of this section is a felony of the fourth degree.

BEER
10-08-2012, 05:30
i carry a hand gun while hunting because i've been coming down from the stand to discover a rabid feral dog waiting below. i don't know what level of badassery you've reached in life but i personally haven't quite reached the level where i can hang onto a ladder and operate a scoped bolt or lever rifle at the same time.

i carry a handgun every day in the city so i don't see why i wouldn't do so in the woods too.

Bren
10-08-2012, 05:31
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

That must be great. Personally, it has been many years since I've been hunting without running into at least one trespasser - even been held at gunpoint by one (I assume I was at gunpoint, since I never actually got a look at him). For the wackos and criminals in the woods, I keep a handgun concealed because it's fast and concealed.


Carry a pistol while scouting before season in some parts of the country I can understand. Carrying a long gun pre-season may get you written up. But during season? Never.

Seems important to you...why? I have a gun on before I go in the woods and after I come out - why would I take off my jacket and take off my gun (usually a shoulder holster) just to leave it behind? Seems like a pretty silly rule you just made.

Louisville Glocker
10-08-2012, 05:44
Your friend's entire problem could have been avoided by getting a concealed carry permit, or by not volunteering information, or by not speeding. It took him several dumb steps to get put in jail.

Felony:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16

I'm with Bren here. I could even add a couple more things that he didn't do (like take a look at the frickin' laws of the state he's going to).

In Ohio, it is a must inform state, so he actually did need to tell the officer that. But NC isn't a state where you can't just carry around an accessible handgun either. So WHAT THE HECK WAS HE THINKING? He wasn't even in compliance with his own state's laws. Sorry, the guy is a bonehead.

Do people just think "I'm going hunting. Gotta carry me some guns. Yahoo." and just get in their cars and expect everything to be hunting wonderland?

The guy should get a CCW license. It is one of the minor hoops we jump through. It gives you lots of extra rights in most states all around the country. For anyone who carries it is really a no-brainer.

People: if you want to carry guns legally, you need to know the laws. It is that simple!

(the us handgun law site, referenced above, is your best starting point). I live in one state (KY) and work in another (IN), so I'm in two states daily. Plus, OH is very close (I was at a Reds game three weeks ago, DID NOT carry into the game, but had gun in car). You've got to know the laws, or you can see what may happen.

Bren
10-08-2012, 06:07
I'm with Bren here. I could even add a couple more things that he didn't do (like take a look at the frickin' laws of the state he's going to).


That crossed my mind too - not to mention, he could stay out of Ohio. If it's a great place to hunt, how come they all come to Kentucky in November?

certifiedfunds
10-08-2012, 06:14
I'm with Bren here. I could even add a couple more things that he didn't do (like take a look at the frickin' laws of the state he's going to).

In Ohio, it is a must inform state, so he actually did need to tell the officer that. But NC isn't a state where you can't just carry around an accessible handgun either. So WHAT THE HECK WAS HE THINKING? He wasn't even in compliance with his own state's laws. Sorry, the guy is a bonehead.

Do people just think "I'm going hunting. Gotta carry me some guns. Yahoo." and just get in their cars and expect everything to be hunting wonderland?

The guy should get a CCW license. It is one of the minor hoops we jump through. It gives you lots of extra rights in most states all around the country. For anyone who carries it is really a no-brainer.

People: if you want to carry guns legally, you need to know the laws. It is that simple!

(the us handgun law site, referenced above, is your best starting point). I live in one state (KY) and work in another (IN), so I'm in two states daily. Plus, OH is very close (I was at a Reds game three weeks ago, DID NOT carry into the game, but had gun in car). You've got to know the laws, or you can see what may happen.

What the heck was he thinking?

Maybe that he was in the United States?

What kind of state wouldn't allow someone to keep a loaded and a cessible handgun in their car? That's just bizarre.

Louisville Glocker
10-08-2012, 06:43
What the heck was he thinking?

Maybe that he was in the United States?

What kind of state wouldn't allow someone to keep a loaded and a cessible handgun in their car? That's just bizarre.

CF,
I'm assuming sarcasm here. Excuse me if I'm wrong, haven't had my coffee yet. I don't know where you live, but if you plan to travel you should realize that different states have different laws. Learn the laws in your own state first. Then expand from there. If you want to live in the wild, you can try borneo or Tanzania, or - well, there is probably nowhere left on this planet that is truly wild. But we live in a society and our society is governed by laws. I enjoyed the "Deadwood" series recently, where laws are just starting to come into play, and it was interesting and a fun show.

The guy was in violation of his own state laws!!! He can't blame it on not knowing about other states' laws.

BUT, and this is a big one, he would have been fine if he had gotten a license. We all get licenses to drive, which seems reasonable, and it isn't completely crazy that we get licenses to carry. In both cases, they may keep some of the wackos off the streets. The state DOES allow him to carry loaded, but he needs to jump through a couple easy hoops, like we all do throughout life.

hamster
10-08-2012, 06:55
Sure the guy made some mistakes along the way. But lets not let the stockholm syndrome get out of hand folks.

The mistakes this guy made are simple errors of paperwork.

Assuming he has no criminal record that would prevent him from having a CCW, then his only true mistake was not unloading the pistol and magazine. He even informed the police officer...which clearly shows to me he has no intent to hurt anyone.

Lets all remember that the supreme law of the land affirms our God given right to keep and bear arms. Lets not condemn this man over what amounts to a simple paperwork snafu. This is a case where as a member of the Jury I'd nullify.

hamster
10-08-2012, 06:59
Thank you Nancy Pelosi.

I'm preparing another check to Buckeye firearms association today in support of their efforts to change carry carry laws in Ohio.

It is just plain stupid that a person with a clean record should be considered a Felon simply because the rounds in his car were in a magazine rather than a cardboard box.

Your friend's entire problem could have been avoided by getting a concealed carry permit, or by not volunteering information, or by not speeding. It took him several dumb steps to get put in jail.

Felony:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16

Drain You
10-08-2012, 07:02
It only took one reply this time, GT. You're getting good at this.

cowboywannabe
10-08-2012, 07:05
That crossed my mind too - not to mention, he could stay out of Ohio. If it's a great place to hunt, how come they all come to Kentucky in November?

because you can use a rifle there.

Louisville Glocker
10-08-2012, 07:05
Sure the guy made some mistakes along the way. But lets not let the stockholm syndrome get out of hand folks.

The mistakes this guy made are simple errors of paperwork.

Assuming he has no criminal record that would prevent him from having a CCW, then his only true mistake was not unloading the pistol and magazine. He even informed the police officer...which clearly shows to me he has no intent to hurt anyone.

Lets all remember that the supreme law of the land affirms our God given right to keep and bear arms. Lets not condemn this man over what amounts to a simple paperwork snafu. This is a case where as a member of the Jury I'd nullify.

Hamster,
While I do sympathize with the guy, and I highly suspect the judge will let him off with leniency, this wasn't an error of paperwork.

He was in violation of state law. He was carrying a loaded accessible handgun when state law clearly prohibits it. The only paperwork involved is that he didn't bother to get a license.

Do you call it paperwork because laws are written on paper?

You don't have to agree with the laws, but if you break them, you just might go to jail.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-08-2012, 07:23
what about crossbows? I'm leaning toward getting one for next year.

They are ok too:)

They used to be illegal to hunt with in NYS. The stick bow hunters, and compound bowhunters have thus far kept them out of the bow season. You have to use them in gun season here.

But if the crossbow hunters ever win the right to use them in bow season, that will be fine with me :)

I've taken deer with compound bow, handgun, rifle, and shotgun. I'm working on muzzleloader next. That season is at the end when it is freaking 10 degrees out!

M&P15T
10-08-2012, 07:28
So, I have a good friend who went to Ohio for a week of deer hunting. Being a good ole NC boy, he took his handgun along with him. Well, he got stopped for speeding, and I'm not sure how or why this came up, but he volunteered that he had a handgun in the car. Turns out that it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio, or at least that is what his hunting buddy relayed to me. Unfortunately he will have to spend the weekend in jail because he has to appear before a judge to have a bond set. This guy is in his 50's and has never seen the inside of a jail before this incident.

This started me thinking how careful you have to be when you travel from one state to another. Does anybody know if in fact it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio? What if there was not a round in the chamber (of a semi-auto)? I assume that having a concealed carry permit from NC would not have changed the situation. It sure would be nice to have some sort of reciprocity between the states, so as not to have to deal with all of the quirky laws of different states.

Anybody else with a horror story to tell?

It sucks for your friend, but he did it to himself.

I cannot imagine why your friend thought it was a good idea to carry a concealed weapon without a permit, especially when traveling.

I am sympathetic, but he did it to himself with his ignorance.

Arc Angel
10-08-2012, 07:50
Twice in my life I ended up being, 'covered' by two, or more, other hunters whom I caught trespassing on our farmland. That's NOT where you want to be when you're carrying a double barreled shotgun full of birdshot. (I wasn't out looking for trespassers when we met.)

Another time I was quietly walking along an isolated dirt road when I glanced over my shoulder to discover I was being followed by a pack of 5 or 6 (I don't think actually feral, but) partially wild dogs! They were definitely tracking me; and, when the pack leader recognized that I was aware of them, he began coming on strong and straight at me.

I picked up a stick; but, it did not deter these animals. Instead of running away they suddenly fanned out in a circle around me! I'm a dog lover; normally, I'd go to extraordinary lengths to avoid hurting a dog; but, that day was different; and I clearly recognized that I was about to become, 'dinner'.

So, I reached under my jacket and removed my 1911. When I racked the slide it sounded like a thunderclap in those quiet woods! The next thing I know every canine instantly, 'melted away' from the spot where he'd been standing. All of them went in a different direction. Those dogs disappeared so fast into the surrounding brush that I couldn't have taken an accurate shot if I'd wanted to.

A little while later I heard the creatures calling to each other so that they could reassemble the pack. In those days I walked through these woods a lot. I only saw one or two of those dogs again; and it was way off in the distance along some railroad tracks. (They, probably, knew I was there; but they, obviously also, knew what a gun can do; and they never came near me again.)

Is there a place in the woods for a sidearm? I'd have to say, 'Sometimes'. I've known deer hunters who would carry small 22 caliber revolvers in order to administer a coup de grace without damaging the head; but, I've got to agree; personally I've never understood, 'Why' someone who is not a sports magazine writer or a handgun factory representative would deliberately go hunting with a handgun. To me handgun hunting just makes no sense. So, what should I do? Go over and sit in the corner with Jim Zumbo? :freak:

hamster
10-08-2012, 07:57
Hamster,
While I do sympathize with the guy, and I highly suspect the judge will let him off with leniency, this wasn't an error of paperwork.

He was in violation of state law. He was carrying a loaded accessible handgun when state law clearly prohibits it. The only paperwork involved is that he didn't bother to get a license.

Do you call it paperwork because laws are written on paper?

You don't have to agree with the laws, but if you break them, you just might go to jail.


I understand that the guy was in violation of the law, that he should have known better and that he will likely end up in jail.

I had just hoped that the response here on GT would be "Wow, this is terrible what can we do to change the law?" Rather than the Nuremberg defense.

As for the paperwork comment. Remember he was charged with a felony, not a misdemeanor. In my opinion for a felony charge, there should be a victim. But for applying for a CCW licence... OR removing the rounds from the magazine this man did nothing wrong.

He didn't hurt anyone
He didn't threaten anyone
He didn't destroy property
He didn't cause someone injury of any kind.
He didn't trespass


He even announced to the officer the fact he had a pistol for the officer's safety and piece of mind (as per Ohio CCW law).

It is my opinion that people should not be branded as felons over some minor technicality.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-08-2012, 08:13
personally I've never understood, 'Why' someone who is not a sports magazine writer or a handgun factory representative would deliberately go hunting with a handgun. To me handgun hunting just makes no sense. So, what should I do? Go over and sit in the corner with Jim Zumbo? :freak:

Why does rifle hunting make more sense than handgun hunting?

ithaca_deerslayer
10-08-2012, 08:17
It is my opinion that people should not be branded as felons over some minor technicality.

Well, unless they carry a handgun for hunting.

Of if their rifle has a black plastic stock instead of fine wood grain.

Or if their boots are not made by LL Bean.

boone10
10-08-2012, 08:26
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Redonkulous statement right here.

Surely the handgun was to ensure a safe trip to and from the woods. Do you only carry when you go to the "hood"? If so, my best to you and yours.

tantrix
10-08-2012, 08:33
At any given time I have 3 guns loaded and concealed in my vehicle. When I get in that usually makes 4.

You and me both. One of the many reasons I've never lived outside of this state, and never will.

Bren
10-08-2012, 09:08
because you can use a rifle there.

That's true. I forgot about the shotgun thing.

dbcooper
10-08-2012, 09:41
Personally I do not have my Florida CCW yet. I have an appointment for the 15th to apply for it and expect it to take 4-8 weeks before I have it. Until then I travel to ranges with gun unloaded and in the trunk in Florida and Alabama where my range is. I have looked up the reciprocity page on the web page for FL CCW and have a list of the 16 states that do not honor Florida's CCW. With the gun laws being what they are I think it foolish to carry and not be aware of the laws. I feel for your friend and don't feel he had felonious intent. But many law enforcement people will not give one a second chance on that offense.

I don't know about Alabama but in Fl. you're good in the car

Fl. Statute 790.25
(5) Possesion in Private Conveyance
Not withstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of 790.01 for a person 18 yrs of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance , without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such a firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons , including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Fl. 790.001
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether locked or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether locked or not locked; in a zippered case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.


If you got in a shoebox with a lid on it in the front seat you are within the law.

uptomyneck
10-08-2012, 09:55
IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.

M&P15T
10-08-2012, 09:57
IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Wow......I could just go on and on.:supergrin:

nikerret
10-08-2012, 10:31
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

When you are hunting, you are already carrying a weapon.

You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot you have been in and out of the area 30 times before scouting and setting up.

Been hunting much?

I've hunted all over the country thanks to moving all over. Every place I have ever hunted and the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back if you packed a pistol to head into the woods. (i admit to not hunting Alaska yet) maybe that is just me and my almost 50 years hunting. But that is the way I see it.

Carry a pistol while scouting before season in some parts of the country I can understand. Carrying a long gun pre-season may get you written up. But during season? Never.

Sorry guys. I believe what I believe.

You guys go in there with your 12" elephant skinner knives and black weapons and hand guns strapped to your leg. You will feel safe and I will laugh at you. And, we will both be tickled.


Been hunting alone since I was 9. I never once felt the need for a hand gun too. neither did my grandad, my dad and now my 3 grown sons. I've never hunted with a serious hunter that carried one either.
Again, I have hunted the plains, southern US and the Rockies. I've never hunted Alaska where it may be wise.

But to each his own.

You are blissfully ignorant of many things.

First off, your scouting means nothing with the newer meth cooking techniques. Around here, they often drop off the stuff in the evening and pick it up in the morning. It doesn't take days of sitting, anymore. I prefer to hunt deer when they are moving the most, in the morning and in the evening. In til dark, out after dark. That's when they're moving this stuff.

Add on top of that, poachers and trespassers are rampant and armed.

I recommend you carry a defensive weapon ALL THE TIME.

Kentucky just passed a law allowing you to carry a handgun when hunting or fishing, even when bowhunting you can carry a firearm......hmmmmm wonder why?

So did KS, no permit to carry necessary, so long as you have proper documentation of legal huning actually going on. The law is specifically for a defensive weapon, open or concealed.

IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.

Oh, good!! You're here...

You forgot about the POS's who MADE the laws and the POS's who made the roads only listed for that low speed limit and the POS's that made the vehicle he was in that was capable of performing an illegal act (speeding) and had enough cargo space to hold an illegal weapon.

It's okay, you seem to be new at pointing fingers. Just know, there is much more hate to be shared.

If the LEO was made aware of a felony and most likely didn't have the option of looking the other way.

Arc Angel
10-08-2012, 10:35
Why does rifle hunting make more sense than handgun hunting?

I'm going to answer your question with another question: 'Why do people fight small arms engagements with rifles and carbines rather than handguns?' :freak:

Game hunting shouldn't be about sport; it should be about eating, instead. I recently watched one of my neighbors, 'put down' three meat cattle with an assortment of 357 Magnum and 45 ACP pistols. A more gruesome, bloody, prolonged, and needlessly brutal execution of farm animals - who shouldn't have had to die that way - I've never seen!

What is more - not that I'm proud of it, but - I've, probably, killed more fowl and game animals than anyone else on this board! The first time a minister discussed my excessive love of hunting with me I remember telling him, 'Pastor, if there's no hunting in Heaven then I don't want to go there!'

Years later it took an especially knowledgeable Rabbi to explain to me - and prove through Holy Scripture - that all sport hunting is wrong. We are ALL God's creatures; and the taking of any animal's life can only be justified (and forgiven) when that animal is taken as food. No other rationale is acceptable to God.

I don't hunt anymore; but if I did it would be with large caliber (probably centerfire) rifles, and 12 gauge (or larger) shotguns. I no longer play with either sport hunting or handguns when they are used for any such purpose. I'm, now, older than that.

bmoore
10-08-2012, 10:36
Okay, a thutty-thutty lever gun then.

Should I sling my loaded Winchester/Marlin so that I can bring the handgun into play?

I am convinced you just post to push peoples buttons, you can't possibly be as stupid as you look on this forum. I work with a guy like you, "the sky is blue today Jim"............."no its not its lavender". Same crap everyday, just likes to argrue but everyone thinks hes an idiot.

uptomyneck
10-08-2012, 10:43
The Statist Apologist Doctrine montra here is older than "I bet I know where you got 'dem shoes."

That SOB that did the arresting violated the God given right that was promised to us in the 2nd. You're all in favor of stedfastly enforcing corrupt laws made by corrupt politicians. You Neocons are worse than the Communists. Wake the FU!

fowl intent
10-08-2012, 10:53
I have read the responses, and I agree that ignorance of the Ohio law is no excuse. From what I understand, he had just stopped for gas, and gone into the station for some eats. The pistol, which he had on the seat beside him while traveling, was placed under his seat so as not to make his truck the target of a smash and grab. He apparantly failed to remove the pistol from under the seat (which would'nt have helped him under Ohio's law, but would have made carrying the non-concealed handgun legal under his home state's laws).

Anyway, he has been referrred to a local attorney, and hopefully will get the sympathy of the local District Attorney and be able to negotiate a misdemeanor plea with fine. My point was simply that you do have to be familiar with the gun laws (all laws for that matter) when you are traveling to or through other states.

I won't get into the debate about whether you should carry a handgun while hunting with another weapon, but in some situtations, and in some areas it makes perfect sense to me.

jp3975
10-08-2012, 10:59
CF,
I'm assuming sarcasm here. Excuse me if I'm wrong, haven't had my coffee yet. I don't know where you live, but if you plan to travel you should realize that different states have different laws. Learn the laws in your own state first. Then expand from there. If you want to live in the wild, you can try borneo or Tanzania, or - well, there is probably nowhere left on this planet that is truly wild. But we live in a society and our society is governed by laws. I enjoyed the "Deadwood" series recently, where laws are just starting to come into play, and it was interesting and a fun show.

The guy was in violation of his own state laws!!! He can't blame it on not knowing about other states' laws.

BUT, and this is a big one, he would have been fine if he had gotten a license. We all get licenses to drive, which seems reasonable, and it isn't completely crazy that we get licenses to carry. In both cases, they may keep some of the wackos off the streets. The state DOES allow him to carry loaded, but he needs to jump through a couple easy hoops, like we all do throughout life.

He lives in a state where you can legally carry a loaded gun in the car...the way it should be in every state.

Sure, we are a nation of laws, but this is a stupid, senseless law that doesnt do anyone any good.

If someone is intent on murder, they dont care about laws and will carry in the car.

The only people who observe the law are people who arent a danger to anyone by having a gun in the car...accept maybe to criminals.

tsmo1066
10-08-2012, 11:14
So I'll sling the loaded rifle that I have in my hand so that I can play gunslinger?

Okay...

"Play gunslinger"? Is that what you do in the woods????? :shocked:

Getting back to the actual discussion (as opposed to the 'gunslinger' fantasies you seem to harbor), first, most people walking around in arid hill and brush country don't do so with a rifle perpetually held in their hands at "port arms". The rifle is normally slung when walking long distances so that the arms and hands are free to perform other tasks, like clearing a path, reading maps, drinking water, climbing, working binos, etc., etc., etc. - but of course anyone who actually does any sort of back country hiking would already know that...funny that you don't. :whistling:

Second, as I stated before, when you encounter illegals and worse yet, "coyotes" hailing from MS13 or other gangs with Cartel ties, it's normally a close quarters, surprise situation. Unslinging a bolt-action hunting rifle, chambering a round and bringing it to bear is much more cumbersome and time consuming than simply drawing a handgun.

This is the same reason why most people don't walk around town with a slung rifle and instead opt to carry concealed handguns to deal with a surprise attack situation. Long guns just aren't practical in close quarters, surprise situations, on the street or in brush country - and for all the same reasons.

:wavey:

ithaca_deerslayer
10-08-2012, 11:21
I'm going to answer your question with another question: 'Why do people fight small arms engagements with rifles and carbines rather than handguns?' :freak:

Game hunting shouldn't be about sport; it should be about eating, instead. I recently watched one of my neighbors, 'put down' three meat cattle with an assortment of 357 Magnum and 45 ACP pistols. A more gruesome, bloody, prolonged, and needlessly brutal execution of farm animals - who shouldn't have had to die that way - I've never seen!

What is more - not that I'm proud of it, but - I've, probably, killed more fowl and game animals than anyone else on this board! The first time a minister discussed my excessive love of hunting with me I remember telling him, 'Pastor, if there's no hunting in Heaven then I don't want to go there!'

Years later it took an especially knowledgeable Rabbi to explain to me - and prove through Holy Scripture - that all sport hunting is wrong. We are ALL God's creatures; and the taking of any animal's life can only be justified (and forgiven) when that animal is taken as food. No other rationale is acceptable to God.

I don't hunt anymore; but if I did it would be with large caliber (probably centerfire) rifles, and 12 gauge (or larger) shotguns. I no longer play with either sport hunting or handguns when they are used for any such purpose. I'm, now, older than that.

Ok, then it is not handguns that bother you, but sport hunting.

Using your logic, hunting with a rifle is bad too. But if it must be done, the logical conclusion is it should be done over bait to get the animal in close, maybe at night with a spotlight too. Better yet to raise your own animals and kill them at contact distance.

However, the guy making a mess up close with a handgun didn't know what he was doing, so I wouldn't put all handgun users down for that guy's mistakes. Farm animals are not generally slaughtered with .458 magnums.

But back to sport hunting, what is wrong with it? Is it that the animal might briefly suffer? Or is it that the hunter takes pleasure in the experience?

The meat eater takes pleasure in the experience of eating meat, and could instead choose to be vegetarian. So why should the sport hunter not take pleasure in the pursuit, method of killing, and the eventual eating? As we all know, the sport hunter appreciates the wild animals and helps to preserve their habitat, and keep the species thriving.

Little Joe
10-08-2012, 11:29
If I were the officer, given the fact he was an out-of-state hunter, I would have given your friend a run down of the law and had him unload, lock it up and be on his way.

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 11:31
I understand that the guy was in violation of the law, that he should have known better and that he will likely end up in jail.

I had just hoped that the response here on GT would be "Wow, this is terrible what can we do to change the law?" Rather than the Nuremberg defense.

As for the paperwork comment. Remember he was charged with a felony, not a misdemeanor. In my opinion for a felony charge, there should be a victim. But for applying for a CCW licence... OR removing the rounds from the magazine this man did nothing wrong.

He didn't hurt anyone
He didn't threaten anyone
He didn't destroy property
He didn't cause someone injury of any kind.
He didn't trespass


He even announced to the officer the fact he had a pistol for the officer's safety and piece of mind (as per Ohio CCW law).

It is my opinion that people should not be branded as felons over some minor technicality.

The victim is the state of Ohio.

It's not a paperwork mixup, he failed to follow the laws as written by the state of Ohio.


Sent from my PKE meter.

Little Joe
10-08-2012, 11:34
The victim is the state of Ohio.

It's not a paperwork mixup, he failed to follow the laws as written by the state of Ohio.


Sent from my PKE meter.

No harm, no foul. Why ruin a guys life for misunderstanding. Clean record and all...

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 11:38
Further, what was he charged with?

CCW? Weapons under disability? Improper handling?


Sent from my PKE meter.

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 11:39
No harm, no foul. Why ruin a guys life for misunderstanding. Clean record and all...

Is it a misunderstanding or a blatant disregard?

It's not difficult to carry legally in Ohio, plenty of people do it every single day.


Sent from my PKE meter.

Bren
10-08-2012, 11:41
You are blissfully ignorant of many things.

First off, your scouting means nothing with the newer meth cooking techniques. Around here, they often drop off the stuff in the evening and pick it up in the morning. It doesn't take days of sitting, anymore. I prefer to hunt deer when they are moving the most, in the morning and in the evening. In til dark, out after dark. That's when they're moving this stuff.

Add on top of that, poachers and trespassers are rampant and armed.

I recommend you carry a defensive weapon ALL THE TIME.


I get the feeling Jonesee is a "fudd", as they say. He only carries a handgun in his car unloaded and secured? really? What's the point of even owning one if he doesn't use it for self defense or hunting?:upeyes: What would be the point of subscribing to a handgun forum?

Honestly, Fudd is giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he isn't some anti-gunner from DU, playing his "gun owner" character.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-08-2012, 11:44
The victim is the state of Ohio.

It's not a paperwork mixup, he failed to follow the laws as written by the state of Ohio.

I understand the cop having to make the arrest. And I understand that the anti-gun people have out voted the pro-gun people to allow these types of unconstitutional laws to exist.

But what I would hope is that every member of GT would nullify such anti-gun prosecutions if ever picked to be on the jury.

We need much more unity. We need to be more accepting of different ideas of hunting, and of carrying guns, and of the types of guns one might choose to transport or carry.

As long as a gun owner is not pointing his/her gun at someone nor being wreckless in their shooting habits, we should not favor crimal treatment of gun ownership.

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 11:51
I understand the cop having to make the arrest. And I understand that the anti-gun people have out voted the pro-gun people to allow these types of unconstitutional laws to exist.

But what I would hope is that every member of GT would nullify such anti-gun prosecutions if ever picked to be on the jury.

We need much more unity. We need to be more accepting of different ideas of hunting, and of carrying guns, and of the types of guns one might choose to transport or carry.

As long as a gun owner is not pointing his/her gun at someone nor being wreckless in their shooting habits, we should not favor crimal treatment of gun ownership.

We should however allow criminal treatment of those who fail to follow the laws that EVERYBODY else needs to follow, with no issues.

My area is very speedy in there issuing of CCW permits. No reason otherwise.


Sent from my PKE meter.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-08-2012, 12:07
We should however allow criminal treatment of those who fail to follow the laws that EVERYBODY else needs to follow, with no issues.

My area is very speedy in there issuing of CCW permits. No reason otherwise.
.
Not me, I'm not voting to convict anyone just because they don't have a permit. The only permit they need is the US Constitution. Anything else is an unnecessary anti-gun and economic burden placed on otherwise law abiding people.

We have to follow the anti-gun laws, but we can still legally challenge them at every opportunity. Juror nullification is one such opportunity.

hamster
10-08-2012, 12:16
Is it a misunderstanding or a blatant disregard?

It's not difficult to carry legally in Ohio, plenty of people do it every single day.


Sent from my PKE meter.

No question the police officer really had his hands tied. My problem is with the law in Ohio.

It isn't straightforward. I can:

Disassemble my pistol completely, leave the firing pin at home, lock the loaded magazine in a safe to which I don't have they key. Get pulled over and STILL be charged with a felony.

Something is seriously wrong with that. I understand your desire to defend the need to enforce the law as written. I have no problem with that per se. However, the laws in Ohio pertaining to transporting weapons in vehicles is indefensible.

nikerret
10-08-2012, 12:20
The Statist Apologist Doctrine montra here is older than "I bet I know where you got 'dem shoes."

That SOB that did the arresting violated the God given right that was promised to us in the 2nd. You're all in favor of stedfastly enforcing corrupt laws made by corrupt politicians. You Neocons are worse than the Communists. Wake the FU!

^Crazy and not helpful.

I understand the cop having to make the arrest. And I understand that the anti-gun people have out voted the pro-gun people to allow these types of unconstitutional laws to exist.

But what I would hope is that every member of GT would nullify such anti-gun prosecutions if ever picked to be on the jury.

We need much more unity. We need to be more accepting of different ideas of hunting, and of carrying guns, and of the types of guns one might choose to transport or carry.

As long as a gun owner is not pointing his/her gun at someone nor being wreckless in their shooting habits, we should not favor crimal treatment of gun ownership.

No question the police officer really had his hands tied. My problem is with the law in Ohio.

It isn't straightforward. I can:

Disassemble my pistol completely, leave the firing pin at home, lock the loaded magazine in a safe to which I don't have they key. Get pulled over and STILL be charged with a felony.

Something is seriously wrong with that. I understand your desire to defend the need to enforce the law as written. I have no problem with that per se. However, the laws in Ohio pertaining to transporting weapons in vehicles is indefensible.

^^Sane, well thought out, and effectively expressed.

M&P15T
10-08-2012, 12:25
I love the fact the the OP has never returned, answered any questions, or given any other information.

stolenphot0
10-08-2012, 12:31
I love the fact the the OP has never returned, answered any questions, or given any other information.

You missed it one page back amongst the other replies.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19496929&postcount=93

I have read the responses, and I agree that ignorance of the Ohio law is no excuse. From what I understand, he had just stopped for gas, and gone into the station for some eats. The pistol, which he had on the seat beside him while traveling, was placed under his seat so as not to make his truck the target of a smash and grab. He apparantly failed to remove the pistol from under the seat (which would'nt have helped him under Ohio's law, but would have made carrying the non-concealed handgun legal under his home state's laws).

Anyway, he has been referrred to a local attorney, and hopefully will get the sympathy of the local District Attorney and be able to negotiate a misdemeanor plea with fine. My point was simply that you do have to be familiar with the gun laws (all laws for that matter) when you are traveling to or through other states.

I won't get into the debate about whether you should carry a handgun while hunting with another weapon, but in some situtations, and in some areas it makes perfect sense to me.

I would still like to know what area of Ohio he was arrested in. It will (probably) make a difference. Come around any major city and he has a higher chance of getting the full brunt. Any of the more rural spots and he may stand a chance if he has a good attorney.

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 12:33
No question the police officer really had his hands tied. My problem is with the law in Ohio.

It isn't straightforward. I can:

Disassemble my pistol completely, leave the firing pin at home, lock the loaded magazine in a safe to which I don't have they key. Get pulled over and STILL be charged with a felony.

Something is seriously wrong with that. I understand your desire to defend the need to enforce the law as written. I have no problem with that per se. However, the laws in Ohio pertaining to transporting weapons in vehicles is indefensible.

If an armed robbery is committed with a weapon as you described, should we remove the gun spec here in Ohio?


Sent from my PKE meter.

Gallium
10-08-2012, 12:37
...
Years later it took an especially knowledgeable Rabbi to explain to me - and prove through Holy Scripture - that all sport hunting is wrong. We are ALL God's creatures; and the taking of any animal's life can only be justified (and forgiven) when that animal is taken as food. No other rationale is acceptable to God.

...


I hope if a herd of swine decide to make a meal out of your dad or son I am there instead of you to save the life of that human.

You might want to rethink your interpretation of God's will, and the laws that govern true Christianity.

-G

M&P15T
10-08-2012, 12:38
The Statist Apologist Doctrine montra here is older than "I bet I know where you got 'dem shoes."

That SOB that did the arresting violated the God given right that was promised to us in the 2nd. You're all in favor of stedfastly enforcing corrupt laws made by corrupt politicians. You Neocons are worse than the Communists. Wake the FU!
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/EPIC_675170_981488.jpg

When you run out into your front yard, AR raised high in defiance, ready to join the revolution.......look around.

If you're the only one in their front yard raising their rifle in defiance, it's still too early.:rofl::rofl:

Gallium
10-08-2012, 12:42
So far from what I've read of the original story (as posted), this nightmare was self-created. If you carry a handgun in any state, you really need to be hyper vigilant when you leave your state. There aint no excuse for not knowing what other states require.

hamster
10-08-2012, 12:46
If an armed robbery is committed with a weapon as you described, should we remove the gun spec here in Ohio?


Sent from my PKE meter.

Wow.

Are you seriously conflating the story of a man with no record who immediately notified the officer of his carry status with an armed robbery?

That comparison is so ludicrous I'm not even going to bother with it.

If you truly believe that the man in question so grievously injured the "State" of Ohio through his actions that he needs to be branded as a felon for life, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

mgs
10-08-2012, 12:47
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

I always carry a 6" 357 when hunting.....it's just another tool to hunt with!

eruby
10-08-2012, 12:50
The guy definitely made his own bed by not knowing the laws of the state in which he'd be hunting/travelling.

The argument can certainly be made he shouldn't have had to look up Ohio law, but that's not the case now.

If I were on the jury, I would nullify and vote not guilty.

hamster
10-08-2012, 12:57
So far from what I've read of the original story (as posted), this nightmare was self-created. If you carry a handgun in any state, you really need to be hyper vigilant when you leave your state. There aint no excuse for not knowing what other states require.

While I agree with you for the most part, I will add this. It is nearly impossible for any one person to understand all the laws in effect in their own area...and even less possible to know the laws in different states.

The legal system in this country is so complex that even an attorney (someone a Doctorate in law) isn't considered to be qualified to practice law in a different state without first passing the bar. The tax-code is so complex that major corporations spend millions of dollars per year hiring consultants to help them navigate the system.

The old saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is simply not realistic. I'd venture to say every peson on this board is guilty of violating some law at some point. Be it jaywalking, speeding or not filing a tax return for an item purchase online. There is no way to even know all applicable laws, let alone obey them.

We all just do the best we can and hope that the law is applied judiciously to those who are truly dangerous to society.

Back to the subject of Ohio Gun laws:

Roughly One year ago, if I walked into my local bar with my CCW IWB at 11:59 and 58 seconds I'd have been guilty of a felony. Exactly two seconds later On October 1st CCW in Bars became leag and thus I'm perfectly legal. I'm sure certain individuals on Glocktalk would be perfectly ok with locking me up for a year over those two seconds of being "ignorant" of the law.

spcwes
10-08-2012, 13:44
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Two points:

One I don’t live in Ohio so not sure of the laws there.
Two I carry loaded handgun every place I go no matter where it is. Although I am an excellent marksman with my TC single shot 308 it is by far nothing more than a deer gun at best. If confronted with reality (the thing missing in your post) having a handgun available to transition to after my single round from the rifle has been fired is very comforting and makes perfect sense to me since the woods in my STATE are full of people that grow and manufacture illegal drugs and some might kill you for having walked past them.

Also to note, because I live in a state that allows its citizens rights vs. states that disallow their subjects the same I carry my weapons loaded and concealed in my vehicle and am not concerned with breaking laws because it is legal. Unloaded guns can be used to beat someone I guess…..

jp3975
10-08-2012, 13:45
If an armed robbery is committed with a weapon as you described, should we remove the gun spec here in Ohio?


Sent from my PKE meter.

Do you think a person who has committed armed robbery is going to put his gun in the trunk?

A criminal will do whatever they want.

A normal citizen wouldnt shoot at you in the first place.

What makes people who pay a fee to be able to carry a gun in the car so much more special than those who havent or cant afford to pay up?

Might as well ban CCW holders from carrying a gun in the car in OH.

Gallium
10-08-2012, 13:48
While I agree with you for the most part, I will add this. It is nearly impossible for any one person to understand all the laws in effect in their own area...and even less possible to know the laws in different states. ...


Yes, but there are a few laws I don't try to mess with.

IRS stuff
Gun stuff
Insurance/compliance stuff
Use of deadly force as an affirmative defense


and when I was much younger,
What was the age for consent
Speed limits


Not saying anyone else has to be like me, just how I chose to roll.

"Freedom" is not simply free. You have to earn your spot in a free society.

jp3975
10-08-2012, 13:54
Also to note, because I live in a state that allows its citizens rights vs. states that disallow their subjects the same I carry my weapons loaded and concealed in my vehicle and am not concerned with breaking laws because it is legal. Unloaded guns can be used to beat someone I guess…..

Wasnt always that way, sadly. I was arrested in Irving back in 2004 for having an unloaded Browning Hi-power on the seat.

They picked me up because i had a magazine in my pocket. Cops said I should have had it in the trunk of my single cab pickup. [No, I didnt have a toolbox]

To be fair to the cops, I guess I should have taken a nap at a hotel, rather than a parking lot.

If I remember correctly the law read that the gun had to be unloaded and visible. I thought i was following the law.

At least it was just a misdemeanor, but it sucks to have to say you where arrested on a gun charge on some applications. And it stopped me from being a cop in Texas.

My lawyer said I could get it expunged, but I wasnt paying him anymore money at the time. I wonder if its too late?

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 13:57
The funny part is, Ohio is a gun happy state. I should know, I worked in the office that issued CCW permits in my area. It is not difficult to follow the law.

I did not equate the armed robbery and the knucklehead who was in the OP. I was likening the gun comparison (no firing pin or whatever).

Thanks though.

I'm carrying my G27 right now and he's sitting in jail. Wah wah.

Sent from my PKE meter.

DanaT
10-08-2012, 13:59
While I agree with you for the most part, I will add this. It is nearly impossible for any one person to understand all the laws in effect in their own area...and even less possible to know the laws in different states.

The legal system in this country is so complex that even an attorney (someone a Doctorate in law) isn't considered to be qualified to practice law in a different state without first passing the bar. The tax-code is so complex that major corporations spend millions of dollars per year hiring consultants to help them navigate the system.

The old saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is simply not realistic. I'd venture to say every peson on this board is guilty of violating some law at some point. Be it jaywalking, speeding or not filing a tax return for an item purchase online. There is no way to even know all applicable laws, let alone obey them.


I would go far to say anyone who has filed a tax return is potential felon. You have broken tax laws if you have filed.

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 14:00
I would go far to say anyone who has filed a tax return is potential felon. You have broken tax laws if you have filed.

I learned very young to hire a CPA to do mine.

Ffffff that.


Sent from my PKE meter.

nikerret
10-08-2012, 14:02
Wasnt always that way, sadly. I was arrested in Irving back in 2004 for having an unloaded Browning Hi-power on the seat.

They picked me up because i had a magazine in my pocket. Cops said I should have had it in the trunk of my single cab pickup. [No, I didnt have a toolbox]

To be fair to the cops, I guess I should have taken a nap at a hotel, rather than a parking lot.

If I remember correctly the law read that the gun had to be unloaded and visible. I thought i was following the law.


Sounds like you were.

DanaT
10-08-2012, 14:02
I learned very young to hire a CPA to do mine.

Ffffff that.


Sent from my PKE meter.

You still signed it saying everything was correct.

You think Bernie Madoff prepared his own taxes??

hamster
10-08-2012, 14:03
Yes, but there are a few laws I don't try to mess with.

IRS stuff
Gun stuff
Insurance/compliance stuff
Use of deadly force as an affirmative defense


and when I was much younger,
What was the age for consent
Speed limits


Not saying anyone else has to be like me, just how I chose to roll.

"Freedom" is not simply free. You have to earn your spot in a free society.

I pay my accountant ungodly sums of money for the IRS stuff, because it isn't possible for someone who doesn't spend all day studying tax law to get it 100% right every time. :)

I'm not saying people should disregard the law... I'm just saying there comes a point when the number of laws becomes so large that even those with the best of intentions can't know or follow them all.

In the mean time, we all do our best I guess.

philipk
10-08-2012, 14:12
No question the police officer really had his hands tied. My problem is with the law in Ohio.

It isn't straightforward. I can:

Disassemble my pistol completely, leave the firing pin at home, lock the loaded magazine in a safe to which I don't have they key. Get pulled over and STILL be charged with a felony.

Something is seriously wrong with that. I understand your desire to defend the need to enforce the law as written. I have no problem with that per se. However, the laws in Ohio pertaining to transporting weapons in vehicles is indefensible.

This was my number one reason for getting an Ohio CCW.

I am 55 and for most of my life I travelled to the range with my handguns and loaded magazines in separate bags in the truck. All those years I was ignorant that I was committing a felony.

Luckily I was never stopped.

There is a bill in the Ohio Legislature to change this but I think it is still in committee in the Senate.

IMHO
EVERY gun owner should have a CCW to protect themselves on car carry issues.

.264 magnum
10-08-2012, 14:13
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

HAHAHAHA! You have to be joking!

.264 magnum
10-08-2012, 14:19
Playing Nintendo Duck Hunter doesn't count. HH

Line of the year right there!

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 14:28
You still signed it saying everything was correct.

You think Bernie Madoff prepared his own taxes??

Sure. He also signs it stating he prepared it and I also enter into a contract with him as far as audits and terms of liability go.

Gallium
10-08-2012, 14:28
I learned very young to hire a CPA to do mine.

Ffffff that.


Sent from my PKE meter.




I have a tax attorney do my corporate and personal taxes. Guess what?

1. If there are any screw ups, I am liable, not the CPA, not the tax atty.

2. If the IRS, or my state tax dept screws up, and there is a finding in the favor of the state, I am still liable.

3. Having a CPA or tax atty does not grant one immunity from the law, and it certainly does not mean you have followed the law to the letter. As with LE, there is always something in the tax code where you can be dinged - if .gov looked hard enough.

Maybe you forgot to pay sales tax on an out of state purchase? Maybe you forgot to declare some amount of income you received?

- G

Gallium
10-08-2012, 14:30
Sure. He also signs it stating he prepared it and I also enter into a contract with him as far as audits and terms of liability go.


No, that is not exactly how it works sir.


A LEO, I expect, would have a more granular understanding of how tax laws work.

.264 magnum
10-08-2012, 14:38
The funny part is, Ohio is a gun happy state. I should know, I worked in the office that issued CCW permits in my area. It is not difficult to follow the law.

I did not equate the armed robbery and the knucklehead who was in the OP. I was likening the gun comparison (no firing pin or whatever).

Thanks though.

I'm carrying my G27 right now and he's sitting in jail. Wah wah.

Sent from my PKE meter.

There are but a few GT posters who offer little or nothing consistently. You are the de facto President of that group.

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 15:16
There are but a few GT posters who offer little or nothing consistently. You are the de facto President of that group.

Gracias!


Sent from my PKE meter.

cowboy1964
10-08-2012, 15:31
I have an Ohio CHL. I have never, and still don't, carry loaded mags in the car except for the one in my carry piece and the spare mag on my belt. I've over heard people at the gun shop exclaiming their surprise when they find out they have been illegally carrying loaded mags in the car all this time.

Louisville Glocker
10-08-2012, 15:38
IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.

Whoa, easy.....that kind of language isn't tolerated here....warning....and I'm sure it wasn't done to generate revenue, as you suggest. It is called law enforcement for a reason (enforcing laws!).

stolenphot0
10-08-2012, 15:43
This was my number one reason for getting an Ohio CCW.

I am 55 and for most of my life I travelled to the range with my handguns and loaded magazines in separate bags in the truck. All those years I was ignorant that I was committing a felony.

Luckily I was never stopped.

There is a bill in the Ohio Legislature to change this but I think it is still in committee in the Senate.

IMHO
EVERY gun owner should have a CCW to protect themselves on car carry issues.


This was the main reason I got mine too. I carry 80% of the time.

RonS
10-08-2012, 16:01
I love the fact the the OP has never returned, answered any questions, or given any other information.

I don't blame him, who would want to read some of the "stuff" in here? I still hope his friend gets a sympathetic PA and or judge and avoids a felony charge. Ignorance of the law is no excuce, but being a decent person with a clean record, being honest with the officer and straight with the judge may mitigate some of the damage.

Louisville Glocker
10-08-2012, 16:40
I pay my accountant ungodly sums of money for the IRS stuff, because it isn't possible for someone who doesn't spend all day studying tax law to get it 100% right every time. :)

I'm not saying people should disregard the law... I'm just saying there comes a point when the number of laws becomes so large that even those with the best of intentions can't know or follow them all.

In the mean time, we all do our best I guess.

Yeah, but it is actually quite simple. If you're going into a state where you don't know the law, click on http://www.handgunlaw.us/ and spend five minutes reading. Wow. It isn't a full time job. If you can't spend five or ten minutes checking out laws then I start to question your level of responsibility. None of us know every single law, but we can get it 99% right, and then use best judgement for the rest.

My bet is the guy gets off with no charges filed. Maybe probation on a misdemeanor and a court costs fine.

certifiedfunds
10-08-2012, 16:54
CF,
I'm assuming sarcasm here. Excuse me if I'm wrong, haven't had my coffee yet. I don't know where you live, but if you plan to travel you should realize that different states have different laws. Learn the laws in your own state first. Then expand from there. If you want to live in the wild, you can try borneo or Tanzania, or - well, there is probably nowhere left on this planet that is truly wild. But we live in a society and our society is governed by laws. I enjoyed the "Deadwood" series recently, where laws are just starting to come into play, and it was interesting and a fun show.

The guy was in violation of his own state laws!!! He can't blame it on not knowing about other states' laws.

BUT, and this is a big one, he would have been fine if he had gotten a license. We all get licenses to drive, which seems reasonable, and it isn't completely crazy that we get licenses to carry. In both cases, they may keep some of the wackos off the streets. The state DOES allow him to carry loaded, but he needs to jump through a couple easy hoops, like we all do throughout life.

Shall not be infringed.

If a permit is required it is a privilege, not a right.

certifiedfunds
10-08-2012, 17:01
The victim is the state of Ohio.

It's not a paperwork mixup, he failed to follow the laws as written by the state of Ohio.


Sent from my PKE meter.

The laws in your state regarding guns are immoral.

G29Reload
10-08-2012, 17:08
When you are hunting, you are already carrying a weapon.

And when I have a pistol with me, I have a backup! Unless I'm hunting WITH a pistol.


You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot

Idiots think you don't ever need a backup.


Been hunting much?

Every year.


You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot you have been in and out of the area 30 times before scouting and setting up.

What kind of guarantee that what you've scouted in the past won't have different conditions the day you arrive? I know guys that have been treed by feral dog packs and had to take care of business.

Some states, not mine but some, have ammo limits for what can be in your hunting weapon.


I've hunted all over the country thanks to moving all over. Every place I have ever hunted and the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back if you packed a pistol to head into the woods.

Only if they're anti gun. Most guys I know think youre a fool if you don't keep proper protection on you. Meth labs, finishing shots, feral dogs, other wild animals and coyotes are just a few of the hazards.

Pro gun guys don't laugh at others carrying weapons.

(i admit to not hunting Alaska yet) maybe that is just me and my almost 50 years hunting. But that is the way I see it.

In AK, a large frame double action revolver .44mag and up is known as a "rolling around on the ground" gun in case you get tackled by a bear, you're already likely wounded but its your last chance. More than few stories have come back where it made the difference in life and death. Pretty much the same thing for MT, WY, ID, WA CO and UT.

An old friend in Oregon told the story of his dentist who used to fish annually in the UP of Michigan. A long gun would not have helped him any when he got blindsided by a blackie and went for his .357. He survived, barely but was badly wounded and now only takes a .44mag loaded with hardcast.

But during season? Never.

Suit yourself. No skin off my back.

Atlas
10-08-2012, 17:20
Yeah, but it is actually quite simple. If you're going into a state where you don't know the law, click on http://www.handgunlaw.us/ and spend five minutes reading. Wow. It isn't a full time job. If you can't spend five or ten minutes checking out laws then I start to question your level of responsibility. None of us know every single law, but we can get it 99% right, and then use best judgement for the rest.

My bet is the guy gets off with no charges filed. Maybe probation on a misdemeanor and a court costs fine.

What if you're leaving home, traveling 13 or 14 hours to be in another state, spend a week or so there, then on to a nearby state to spend another two weeks, then on to another...

"shall not be infringed.."

Bruce M
10-08-2012, 17:24
IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.

Oddly a considerable number of the people in Ohio probably disagree with you and he needs to essentially do what they want based on what their legislators write. And few felonies generate anywhere near the revenue they cost to investigate and prosecute.

...

What makes people who pay a fee to be able to carry a gun in the car so much more special than those who havent or cant afford to pay up?

....
It doesn't make them special. It just makes them legal and helps to about instantly differentiate those who ignore the law.

TactiCool
10-08-2012, 17:25
The laws in your state regarding guns are immoral.

Immoral indeed. Sadly, the natural law theory is not very popular in today's court systems.

BTW are you voting yes on #2 in November? :supergrin:

Bren
10-08-2012, 18:44
Oddly a considerable number of the people in Ohio probably disagree with you and he needs to essentially do what they want based on what their legislators write. And few felonies generate anywhere near the revenue they cost to investigate and prosecute.


The nearly universal GNG opinion is: "Cops should answer to the taxpayers who pay their salaries!...unless the taxpayers tell them to do things I don't like....":upeyes:

As in the third grade, their ultimate social theory is "I should get what I want and people should do what I say."

guns85
10-08-2012, 19:45
Here is the reciprocity from the NRA for the state of North Carolina. If would have had a North Carolina permit he would have been ok.

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/north-carolina.aspx

Search
10-08-2012, 20:28
I do feel bad for your friend, given he wasn't meaning any harm, however..

It is an individuals personal responsibility to know the laws in their state and other states they travel through, or visit.

In every state I'm familiar with it's illegal to carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle.

Unless a state has signed reciprocity with the state your permit was issued, your permit is invalid anyway.

The absolute safest thing to do, granted you don't want to know the actual law, is unload your firearm, separate the ammunition to the best of your ability, and secure them both. Hence, leave the ammunition in a box and put your gun in a case or bag.

If you do get stopped, your as safe as you possible could be next to not having it, which I'm not suggesting.

Ignorance doesn't make anything right. Know the laws, protect your self.

certifiedfunds
10-08-2012, 20:42
I do feel bad for your friend, given he wasn't meaning any harm, however..

It is an individuals personal responsibility to know the laws in their state and other states they travel through, or visit.

In every state I'm familiar with it's illegal to carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle.

Unless a state has signed reciprocity with the state your permit was issued, your permit is invalid anyway.

The absolute safest thing to do, granted you don't want to know the actual law, is unload your firearm, separate the ammunition to the best of your ability, and secure them both. Hence, leave the ammunition in a box and put your gun in a case or bag.

If you do get stopped, your as safe as you possible could be next to not having it, which I'm not suggesting.

Ignorance doesn't make anything right. Know the laws, protect your self.

What if you need it really really badly and like right now?

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 20:49
The laws in your state regarding guns are immoral.

Let me know how that defense works out for ya. :wavey:

cowboywannabe
10-08-2012, 20:55
still havent heard why this guy didnt have a ccw permit/license......

BossGodfrey
10-08-2012, 22:17
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

That is one of most stupid post I have ever read, thank you for reminding why I spend so little time on internet forums now !

oldman11
10-08-2012, 22:56
That is one of most stupid post I have ever read, thank you for reminding why I spend so little time on internet forums now !
+1 :rofl:

ray9898
10-08-2012, 23:30
You know....normally I would really feel for the guy over the 'mixup' but considering his actions were against the law in his home state also I have to wonder about his judgement. You can't go blundering through life flying by th seat of your pants.

Ohio Copper
10-08-2012, 23:35
You know....normally I would really feel for the guy over the 'mixup' but considering his actions were against the law in his home state also I have to wonder about his judgement. You can't go blundering through life flying by th seat of your pants.

Ray, I think there is definitely more to this story.


Sent from my PKE meter.

Arc Angel
10-09-2012, 05:37
I hope if a herd of swine decide to make a meal out of your dad or son I am there instead of you to save the life of that human.

You might want to rethink your interpretation of God's will, and the laws that govern true Christianity.

-G

Let's keep things in context - OK. I was specifically referring to biblical laws regarding hunting; but, thank you for expanding the definition to include self-defense. That's an acceptable reason for ending life, too.



PS: If you reread my first post in this thread you should be able to see that I have little, or no, problem ending an animal's life by reason of self-defense.

I didn't get to be my present age because I needed someone else to bail me out every time I got in trouble. Self-defense and I are, 'old friends'; but, now, we're no longer talking about scriptural concepts as they relate to sport hunting - We're talking about self-defense.

As far as my comments to ithaca_deerslayer go, self-defense is NOT the message I was hoping to put across. If I confused you, I apologize. :freak:

mgs
10-09-2012, 05:43
Kentucky just passed a law allowing you to carry a handgun when hunting or fishing, even when bowhunting you can carry a firearm......hmmmmm wonder why?

Same for PA! Bow Hunters can now carry.

Arc Angel
10-09-2012, 05:49
Ok, then it is not handguns that bother you, but sport hunting.

Using your logic, hunting with a rifle is bad too. But if it must be done, the logical conclusion is it should be done over bait to get the animal in close, maybe at night with a spotlight too. Better yet to raise your own animals and kill them at contact distance.

However, the guy making a mess up close with a handgun didn't know what he was doing, so I wouldn't put all handgun users down for that guy's mistakes. Farm animals are not generally slaughtered with .458 magnums.

But back to sport hunting, what is wrong with it? Is it that the animal might briefly suffer? Or is it that the hunter takes pleasure in the experience?

The meat eater takes pleasure in the experience of eating meat, and could instead choose to be vegetarian. So why should the sport hunter not take pleasure in the pursuit, method of killing, and the eventual eating? As we all know, the sport hunter appreciates the wild animals and helps to preserve their habitat, and keep the species thriving.

Your reply is, both, a non-sequitur as well as a misleading exaggeration of what I've said.

There are two great hunters and game takers in the Bible: Nimrod and Esau. Both were detestable to God; but, please, don't let me interfere with your love of a, 'blood sport'.

As I've had to learn for myself, sport hunting - whether or not the game is consumed - is something a man has to, 'grow through' as he matures and draws closer to God. If you're not quite there yet, believe me, I'm able to understand!

mgs
10-09-2012, 05:56
If I were the officer, given the fact he was an out-of-state hunter, I would have given your friend a run down of the law and had him unload, lock it up and be on his way.

There is some great common sense for ya! A LE friend of mine told me.....why make the honest people crazy? There are already plenty of crazy dishonest people out there already! I'm sure the jail space could also be used for more violent crazy people.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-09-2012, 06:12
Your reply is, both, a non-sequitur as well as a misleading exaggeration of what I've said.

There are two great hunters and game takers in the Bible: Nimrod and Esau. Both were detestable to God; but, please, don't let me interfere with your love of a, 'blood sport'.

As I've had to learn for myself, sport hunting - whether or not the game is consumed - is something a man has to, 'grow through' as he matures and draws closer to God. If you're not quite there yet, believe me, I'm able to understand!

What I meant by baiting, and the reason it does logically follow, is because it seems your objection to handgun hunting is you don't like sport hunting, and you don't want an animal to suffer, but you still seem willing to eat meat.

Therefore, if we want to eat some tasty wild animal out there, it would seem the most logical conclusion would be to get as close to the animal as possible for the shot, and not making a sport of it. Putting out bait and having a spotlight ready would accomplish that.

Then use the best tool for the job, whether it be rifle or handgun.

BuckeyePPC
10-09-2012, 06:19
Nonsense. Unless you beleive in fairy tales or that nothing ever happens in the woods and you don't have to worry about bears, or feral dogs, or stumbling over someones meth lab, then yeah, the woods are perfectly safe. :upeyes:



Then you're not carrying, you're just transporting.

And a carjacker's dream.:shocked:


I live half an hour from the Mexican border and here you have to worry about drug runners and human trafficakers aka Coyotes. I worry more about them than the cougars and javelinas.

Went quail hunting in the high desert this past weekend and most of us were carrying handguns.

GWG19
10-09-2012, 07:36
Nonsense. Unless you beleive in fairy tales or that nothing ever happens in the woods and you don't have to worry about bears, or feral dogs, or stumbling over someones meth lab, then yeah, the woods are perfectly safe. :upeyes:


Don't forget Moonshiners. I walked up on a big still while bird hunting. I looked at the tanks which looked to be able to hold about 100 gallons each and decided I didn't need to around those parts of the woods. A little later I did encounter a fellar who asked where I had been hunting, I replied over that away which was in the opposite direction I had came from. :whistling:
I do carry a Ruger GP100 when I hunt.

nikerret
10-09-2012, 08:27
Don't forget Moonshiners. I walked up on a big still while bird hunting. I looked at the tanks which looked to be able to hold about 100 gallons each and decided I didn't need to around those parts of the woods. A little later I did encounter a fellar who asked where I had been hunting, I replied over that away which was in the opposite direction I had came from. :whistling:
I do carry a Ruger GP100 when I hunt.

You good thing you didn't point 90* from where you would have just came from, you would have said "from the burial graves" or "from the meth lab". :supergrin:

nikerret
10-09-2012, 08:28
Ray, I think there is definitely more to this story.

Wait!! You mean we haven't been given the whole story by someone who wasn't there? :shocked:

hamster
10-09-2012, 09:05
Ray, I think there is definitely more to this story.


Sent from my PKE meter.

Kind-of a given. There is ALWAYS more to EVERY story. :)

man.cave
10-09-2012, 11:50
Sorry guys. I believe what I believe.


Been hunting alone since I was 9. I never once felt the need for a hand gun too. neither did my grandad, my dad and now my 3 grown sons. I've never hunted with a serious hunter that carried one either.
Again, I have hunted the plains, southern US and the Rockies. I've never hunted Alaska where it may be wise.

But to each his own.

Odd, i don't spend alot of time hunting but spend a good amount of my work week in the "woods", I am a forester and buy standing timber for a large company. I carry and for the most part am glad i do. Several times I have faced situations that I was glad I was armed. No never had to shoot anybody (thank God), but have shot wild dogs, snakes and just having it on my side has cooled down many situations. I run up on dope growers from time to time and folks hunting out of season etc. I always use a cool head, but you never know, and when they see my firearm and my stance they usually back out.

JuneyBooney
10-09-2012, 13:41
Ray, I think there is definitely more to this story.


Sent from my PKE meter.

I would tend to agree..but some people think America is still "Mayberry" and don't get the required permits to stay out of trouble.

*ASH*
10-09-2012, 13:56
whats the site to look up gun carry laws from state to state ?? im nc and i got friend going hunting in another state , thinking he needs to look it up ?

*ASH*
10-09-2012, 13:59
There are but a few GT posters who offer little or nothing consistently. You are the de facto President of that group.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Glock20 10mm
10-09-2012, 14:19
Another fine example of infringing laws making criminals out of Constitutionally legal citizens.

ray9898
10-09-2012, 14:30
whats the site to look up gun carry laws from state to state ?? im nc and i got friend going hunting in another state , thinking he needs to look it up ?

Of course....just like your friend should look up hunting regulations for the other state because there are likely differences in the two. The laws are not the same and they vary.

Just_plinking
10-09-2012, 15:09
Another fine example of infringing laws making criminals out of Constitutionally legal citizens.

Exactly!

I cringe when I hear "ignorance of the law is no excuse" when the federal government doesn't even know how many criminal laws are on its own books. It can give you a rough estimate though.

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you should have no fear of the law, sadly that ain't the situation.

Arc Angel
10-09-2012, 15:20
What I meant by baiting, and the reason it does logically follow, is because it seems your objection to handgun hunting is you don't like sport hunting, and you don't want an animal to suffer, but you still seem willing to eat meat.

Therefore, if we want to eat some tasty wild animal out there, it would seem the most logical conclusion would be to get as close to the animal as possible for the shot, and not making a sport of it. Putting out bait and having a spotlight ready would accomplish that.

Then use the best tool for the job, whether it be rifle or handgun.

Well, I appreciate what you're saying; but, with all the hunting I used to do, I've never baited an animal - Not even once in my entire life. I have sat on a few scrapes, though, and intercepted many an animal on the way to its feeding ground.

I'm not above killing to eat; but, I really am at that age in life where I no longer take pleasure in the sport of the kill; nor am I any longer able to justify this behavior to myself by eating what I've taken down. If I had my life to live over again I wouldn't be a hunter. A meat eater? Maybe, but not a hunter.

I just lost my taste for it; moreover, these past 25 years I've been doing a sort of penance. My wife and I have spent thousands of dollars rescuing injured and abandoned animals. We live on a farm; and, when the old barn was out on the road, people were always dropping off their unwanted cats and dogs on the property!

When the economy began to change and people began to lose their jobs, the rate of unwanted drop-offs went way up. (Maybe double!) The fellow who lives at the other end of the farm simply shot them; another neighbor who lives down the road used to trap them in leg hold traps. Any dogs, or especially cats, who stayed around our house and barn ended up getting saved.

I'm not against hunting, per se. I still eat some, but not a lot of, meat. I, personally, just don't care to hunt anymore. I'll be very honest with you, though: If the economy gets much worse, or if gas goes to $5 or $6 dollars a gallon I do think that I'll get the required permits and start taking some of these deer that are always going in and out of the hay fields. (Including our beautiful hosta garden!)

My position on what gun to use is the same for hunting as it is for self-defense: Just shoot straight, and use enough gun! ;)

P99er
10-09-2012, 15:34
the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back

So you folks are the kind of people who do things behind the backs of others? Scared to say anything to their face?


Look. You might think you know everything, but the fact is, you don't. Everyone has a different perspective, opinion, and viewpoint. Ask 10 people to describe the color red, and you'll likely get several different descriptions. Just because you do or don't like it, doesn't mean you are right, and they are wrong.

Have I ever carried a pistol when I went hunting? No. But I am not going to make an ass of myself and criticize others who do. If that is what they want to do, more power to them. They hunt. They wear a sidearm. That is two things we instantly have in common, and there are probably more. Why be so petty and childish and criticize others for something so simple and asinine, and something that basically comes down to personal opinion? Why? Because that is the kind of person you are.

Brian Lee
10-09-2012, 15:46
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.



I take it you only hunt for rabbits and mice, and in places where nothing bigger even lives there?

RonS
10-09-2012, 16:01
Classic example of why the anti gunners will probably win in the end; because they can hang each little faction one at a time. First the machine gun guys, then the assault rifle guys, then the CCH guys, then the hunters, then the guys who carry pocket knives.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-09-2012, 16:11
My position on what gun to use is the same for hunting as it is for self-defense: Just shoot straight, and use enough gun! ;)

I like that :)

ignantmike
10-09-2012, 16:36
i've carried a pistol duck hunting.....not the place you think about running into a "wild" animal.....but, when you are by yourself.....know one ever knows what can happen......i've seen "shady" people in the parking area's.....some guy's even get robbed fishing in spot's going back to their cars....west branch resv. is one place.....:wow:

RustyL
10-09-2012, 17:59
I realize not everyone has smart phones, this is a good app to buy....CCW Controls

fowl intent
10-09-2012, 18:08
Update: My buddy made bond yesterday, and got back home last night. He has to go back to Ohio next week for the arraignment, and the following week to handle the case. He has a local attorney, and it sounds like things will work out OK for him. As for the questions about why he didn't have a CC permit, he had planned to do it for months, but just never had the time to complete the course. I imagine it will be high on his priority list now.

Ohio Copper
10-09-2012, 18:38
Update: My buddy made bond yesterday, and got back home last night. He has to go back to Ohio next week for the arraignment, and the following week to handle the case. He has a local attorney, and it sounds like things will work out OK for him. As for the questions about why he didn't have a CC permit, he had planned to do it for months, but just never had the time to complete the course. I imagine it will be high on his priority list now.

What were his charges?
CCW or improper handling?


Sent from my PKE meter.

LINKz
10-09-2012, 19:03
Here in Colorado one can carry their firearm loaded in the car with no permit, because the person's vehicle is considered to be a part of their domicile. Lucky us

frank4570
10-09-2012, 19:05
You may want to explain to him that breaking laws can cause him legal trouble. Use little words if you have to.

*ASH*
10-09-2012, 19:15
You may want to explain to him that breaking laws can cause him legal trouble. Use little words if you have to.

do you know how many laws are broken daily that you dont know of ? we all break laws daily .

Just_plinking
10-09-2012, 19:18
You may want to explain to him that breaking laws can cause him legal trouble. Use little words if you have to.

You may want to have someone explain to you what it is to be an American.

frank4570
10-09-2012, 19:28
You may want to have someone explain to you what it is to be an American.

Carrying a concealed handgun across state lines when you are ignorant of the laws? That's just asking for it.

s&wfan
10-09-2012, 19:39
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.


You carry a handgun unloaded and locked in a case when you travel? Hope you never need it.

I try not to be negative or ugly to people, but your entire reply is ate up with it.

certifiedfunds
10-09-2012, 19:55
Classic example of why the anti gunners will probably win in the end; because they can hang each little faction one at a time. First the machine gun guys, then the assault rifle guys, then the CCH guys, then the hunters, then the guys who carry pocket knives.

What makes it all the more disappointing is the abundance of "pro-gun" types on here who are so eager to blame the guy arrested for not knowing the law or having a permit.

skippz
10-09-2012, 20:05
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

This one really takes the cake... I was gonna say something but I think the other posters have covered it!!!

I think gun owners, whether military arms collectors, sportsmen, or cowboy action, should unify before all of us have to find another hobby!

I really hope this guy is shown some leneancy.

skippz
10-09-2012, 20:07
Just to be clear, had this guy possessed a ccw permit, he could've had the gun loaded & concealed and been okay under OH law?

stolenphot0
10-09-2012, 20:20
Just to be clear, had this guy possessed a ccw permit, he could've had the gun loaded & concealed and been okay under OH law?

so long as NC & OH have reciprocity, yes he wold have been fine. He could have had 10 loaded pistols and been fine.

Lone_Wolfe
10-09-2012, 21:12
Update: My buddy made bond yesterday, and got back home last night. He has to go back to Ohio next week for the arraignment, and the following week to handle the case. He has a local attorney, and it sounds like things will work out OK for him. As for the questions about why he didn't have a CC permit, he had planned to do it for months, but just never had the time to complete the course. I imagine it will be high on his priority list now.

If he still has the option after this.

Smithers
10-09-2012, 23:16
OH and NC have reciprocity. I know because I'm from OH and went on vacation in western NC last month. The laws are stupid but your buddy should have his permit if he's going to carry.

I'm not sure you can call this a nightmare. Try to look at it from the officer's point of view. You have to be an idiot to try speeding in OH. Loaded handgun + no permit = felony around here.

There's no question, you speed on Ohio freeways at your peril.
Ohio isn't Michigan - Ohio's top speed would get you run over in MI.

Smithers
10-09-2012, 23:21
It's kind of silly to go to an entirely different state while carrying a gun without researching the laws.

True, true.

We don't have the whole story here. Was it a local cop, Highway Patrol, etc ?

How did the cop know he had the gun? It's not their general rule to search your car.

DanaT
10-09-2012, 23:38
True, true.

We don't have the whole story here. Was it a local cop, Highway Patrol, etc ?

How did the cop know he had the gun? It's not their general rule to search your car.

Reading is one of those life skills that sometimes helps add information and puts things in context.

POST #1!!

Well, he got stopped for speeding, and I'm not sure how or why this came up, but he volunteered that he had a handgun in the car.

Smithers
10-09-2012, 23:41
IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.

The "pig" ?

What, are you twelve ?

DanaT
10-09-2012, 23:53
What makes it all the more disappointing is the abundance of "pro-gun" types on here who are so eager to blame the guy arrested for not knowing the law or having a permit.

I think you missed the most obvious point. The officer went home safe that night. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Basically, most everyone here is willing to surrender someone elses rights / life to the govt. They know for sure they are not one of the bad guys and it wont happen to them....

Wait...I think I saw a writing somewhere before about this topic...let me think about it....it may come to me...

Its coming to me...its was something written by Martin Niemöller...

Smithers
10-10-2012, 00:00
Update: My buddy made bond yesterday, and got back home last night. He has to go back to Ohio next week for the arraignment, and the following week to handle the case. He has a local attorney, and it sounds like things will work out OK for him. As for the questions about why he didn't have a CC permit, he had planned to do it for months, but just never had the time to complete the course. I imagine it will be high on his priority list now.

If he is convicted of a felony involving a firearm, he can kiss that goodbye.

Smithers
10-10-2012, 00:06
What makes it all the more disappointing is the abundance of "pro-gun" types on here who are so eager to blame the guy arrested for not knowing the law or having a permit.

To me, it just seems like common sense. Having a loaded weapon in your car isn't the same thing as a missing mudflap.

The laws for transporting firearms between (within) states are pretty easy to find.

Would most posters here agree that we should be able to have most weapons anytime? I think so.

Unfortunately, that's not the way it is.

We have to live in the actual world , not what we think is ideal or "right" , even though it may well be.

Lecture over.

Smithers
10-10-2012, 00:09
Reading is one of those life skills that sometimes helps add information and puts things in context.

Geez, I missed that part. Is it your time of the month?

POST #1!!

Exclamations are for girls and grandmothers.

alwaysshootin
10-10-2012, 07:15
Pssst, jonesee has been gone since he last chimed in on post #21. Just saying.:upeyes::wavey:

Clutch Cargo
10-10-2012, 09:19
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

Go hunting small game with a rimfire rifle in these parts and you had better be very good at climbing trees (if one is close) or carry a handgun. A rimfire will only make an angry hog angrier. Tell the hog he's only make believe and see where that gets you.
When I carry in a car, it;s loaded and ready to go. What's the point of having a locked handgun? Are you going to tell a car jacker and/or a rifle thief to wait while you unlock and load your gun?:rofl:

wvkid
10-10-2012, 10:42
From SE Ohio and I wouldn't go in the woods unarmed. Between dogs, dope growers, meth labs and the other normal stuff you might run into having a firearm or two is a good thing.

+1 I had 2 coyotes respond to my turkey calls this past april and they've recently upped the number of bear tags allowed due to the increasing numbers oh yea the southern wv pill epidemic is encouraging too

cowboy1964
10-10-2012, 10:45
What makes it all the more disappointing is the abundance of "pro-gun" types on here who are so eager to blame the guy arrested for not knowing the law or having a permit.

Um, who else are we supposed to blame, George Bush?

Jonesee
10-10-2012, 10:48
Pssst, jonesee has been gone since he last chimed in on post #21. Just saying.:upeyes::wavey:



Still here.
I just agree to disagree.

I am not going to start carrying a handgun while I am hunting. I never have, and never will.
I don't have a CCW permit so when I transport my hand gun it is locked and unloaded and the ammo is seperate.

If the man this post is about had done the same he wouldn't have been arrested. (and I feel bad for him. the arrest record won't go away even after he puts the charges to bed)

And Bren was "partially" right when he called me a FUDD (I had to look up the definition). I don't own any black guns. Not my style. Raised on a farm and have no use for them. Mine are used for hunting exclusively. I have a safe overflowing with hunting long guns, and 2 shelves filled with handguns (Glocks included). The Bows are hanging in the garage.

I am an NRA member and strong supporter of the 2nd amendment.

I thought there was room for everyone in the gun community and this forum, maybe not.

I'm too old to change my habits now, and I won't try to change anyone else's.

I see no point in arguing just to argue so this is the last comment I will make on this thread.

Glock20 10mm
10-10-2012, 10:56
Meanwhile the legality of asking permission to exercise a right is glossed over... and people wonder why our rights are being eroded... it's because not enough people will step up and say NO to illegal infringements.

Atlas
10-10-2012, 11:05
Meanwhile the legality of asking permission to exercise a right is glossed over... and people wonder why our rights are being eroded... it's because not enough people will step up and say NO to illegal infringements.

And we all share the blame for allowing the states to assume the power to take such rights from us.

JuneyBooney
10-10-2012, 12:39
Meanwhile the legality of asking permission to exercise a right is glossed over... and people wonder why our rights are being eroded... it's because not enough people will step up and say NO to illegal infringements.

I agree. Free Speech is almost gone too.

philipk
10-10-2012, 13:05
Still here.
I just agree to disagree.

I am not going to start carrying a handgun while I am hunting. I never have, and never will.
I don't have a CCW permit so when I transport my hand gun it is locked and unloaded and the ammo is seperate.

If the man this post is about had done the same he wouldn't have been arrested. (and I feel bad for him. the arrest record won't go away even after he puts the charges to bed)

And Bren was "partially" right when he called me a FUDD (I had to look up the definition). I don't own any black guns. Not my style. Raised on a farm and have no use for them. Mine are used for hunting exclusively. I have a safe overflowing with hunting long guns, and 2 shelves filled with handguns (Glocks included). The Bows are hanging in the garage.

I am an NRA member and strong supporter of the 2nd amendment.

I thought there was room for everyone in the gun community and this forum, maybe not.

I'm too old to change my habits now, and I won't try to change anyone else's.

I see no point in arguing just to argue so this is the last comment I will make on this thread.

I am in your corner as this post could describe me. The only difference is I own a black gun and I have a CCW due to Ohio's laws about loaded magazines in automobiles.

That aside, the gun community should be big enough for all of us.

One observation, I have noticed that most of those who demand a narrow opinion on what gun owners should think were not raised with guns. They are mostly johnny come latelys.

To me a gun is a tool and not an item to be worshipped. I was raised with them and can not remember the first time I shot one. (Just like I can't remember the first time I watched TV.)

To quote you,

I thought there was room for everyone in the gun community and this forum.

tj3752
10-10-2012, 13:07
Jonesee you probably would not have received so many replies if you would not of made the comment that you and any serious hunters would laugh at some one that carried a handgun hunting.

DanaT
10-10-2012, 13:29
I agree. Free Speech is almost gone too.

It all about going home safe and getting a pension...

MacChiroCtr
10-10-2012, 14:16
Jonesee, you're absolutely doing the right thing. As I started to read this thread, I assumed you had a CHP and was kind of surprised at what you posted. Since you don't have the permit, I think it's quite obvious you're doing what's right for you. You're following the law, pure and simple.

When I carry in the woods, I'm not pretending or trying to be someone I'm not. But I also have the permit, so here in NC I'm doing what's right for me, AND I'm following the law, as are you.

Season's starting. Good hunting!

bmoore
10-10-2012, 16:50
It all about going home safe and getting a pension...

Here is a link to some guys that don't have to worry about getting their pension. As a suit and tie warrior, look how much savings you got as a tax payer. Was it another gnarly day on your cell phone and computer all day?

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

ithaca_deerslayer
10-10-2012, 16:52
I am in your corner as this post could describe me. The only difference is I own a black gun and I have a CCW due to Ohio's laws about loaded magazines in automobiles.

That aside, the gun community should be big enough for all of us.

One observation, I have noticed that most of those who demand a narrow opinion on what gun owners should think were not raised with guns. They are mostly johnny come latelys.

To me a gun is a tool and not an item to be worshipped. I was raised with them and can not remember the first time I shot one. (Just like I can't remember the first time I watched TV.)

To quote you,

I thought there was room for everyone in the gun community and this forum.

There's room for him, of course, but we are reminding him that his view of hsndguns was a little narrow and that not everyone laughs at the idea of carrying a handgun while hunting.

If now he wants to leave the forum, that is his choice.

Or he could stay and be accepting of handgunners, and they will be accepting of him.

certifiedfunds
10-10-2012, 17:19
Um, who else are we supposed to blame, George Bush?

Sarcasm, I hope.

Cole125
10-10-2012, 18:13
1. Never speed or violate traffic laws with a firearm in your vehicle. Don't be stupid.

2. If a cop stops you DO NOT tell them you have a gun in your car. Don't ask, don't tell.

Clutch Cargo
10-10-2012, 18:15
Bummer. Any law abiding citizen may carry a loaded gun in their vehicle under the Texas Motorist Protection Act. Ohio needs some lessons from Texas.

dbarry
10-10-2012, 18:49
Nonsense. Unless you beleive in fairy tales or that nothing ever happens in the woods and you don't have to worry about bears, or feral dogs, or stumbling over someones meth lab, then yeah, the woods are perfectly safe. :upeyes:



Then you're not carrying, you're just transporting.

And a carjacker's dream.:shocked:

absolutely agree g29. Get your head out of the sand. In so ohio people have been shot stumbling across meth labs, marijuana fields, etc.

Know the state laws. Get CCW license for other states that give you recip to more states (CC bingo).

dbarry
10-10-2012, 18:57
What the heck is with the gun "racism"? Black guns, white guns (stainless)? :O_

I don't get it. Who the heck cares what color the gun is? I tell you what, you get someone shooting at you with a gun and all you've got is your bow, you'll give your left xxxx (knee :O) for a black, green, or pink gun to shoot back.

certifiedfunds
10-10-2012, 19:10
Bummer. Any law abiding citizen may carry a loaded gun in their vehicle under the Texas Motorist Protection Act. Ohio needs some lessons from Texas.

That's funny. You guys don't even have open carry. Have to ask government permission to carry off your own property.

ckrockets
10-10-2012, 19:23
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.

:upeyes::rofl:

*ASH*
10-10-2012, 19:27
That's funny. You guys don't even have open carry. Have to ask government permission to carry off your own property.

wait texas dont have open carry ???:rofl::faint::faint:damn

certifiedfunds
10-10-2012, 19:28
wait texas dont have open carry ???:rofl::faint::faint:damn

Lol! Nope. They only have half of the second amendment. Shouldn't really be lecturing Ohio.

Gray_Rider
10-10-2012, 19:40
So Being a good ole NC boy, he took his handgun along with him. Well, he got stopped for speeding, and I'm not sure how or why this came up, but he volunteered that he had a handgun in the car. Turns out that it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio, or at least that is what his hunting buddy relayed to me. Unfortunately he will have to spend the weekend in jail because he has to appear before a judge to have a bond set. This guy is in his 50's and has never seen the inside of a jail before this incident.

This started me thinking how careful you have to be when you travel from one state to another.

Sadly, a lesson to be learned. If it's not asked about, don't volunteer the info. Chances are the officer would not have guessed or asked about it unless it was a major speeding or reckless driving etc. Present your papers and keep your mouth shut. There was no reason to think (from your post) that he would have been given the third degree by the officer in question TILL he had to spill the beans.

He had the right to carry his pistol with him as long as he didn't violate the law. IE check rules and regs of states FIRST before trusting the kindness of strangers wearing badges. Follow said rules and regs to the letter or don't bring a pistol or long gun. EVEN HERE IN FLA.

There's a reason I live in the "Gunshine State" of Fla. that has generous reciprosity with almost all the states that are not People's Republics. IE. New York, New Jersey, etc.

Sad to hear about this, and this is isn't a beratement of your friend. Hope they don't cause him any more grief and I'll bet he won't be back to the "Buckeye State" or spend any money there any time soon. I wouldn't for sure!

With prayers for his timely release with the lowest price possible I remain...

Yours in The Cause,
Gray_Rider

MtnBiker
10-10-2012, 20:11
Hmmm Let me see.
NY
MD
IL
OH

Yep. Ohio is on the list of states I avoid if I can. That's why.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-10-2012, 20:52
Hmmm Let me see.
NY
MD
IL
OH

Yep. Ohio is on the list of states I avoid if I can. That's why.

Hey, I resemble one of those. Maybe some day we will honor out of state permits, perhaps even the Constitution :)

Might have to secede from NYC first.

Just_plinking
10-10-2012, 21:02
Here is a link to some guys that don't have to worry about getting their pension. As a suit and tie warrior, look how much savings you got as a tax payer. Was it another gnarly day on your cell phone and computer all day?

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

Grow Up. There are plenty of jobs in the United States that are more hazardous than being a police officer in which the practitioners of those occupations don't ask society to put their safety before the rights of the common man.

I'm all for officer safety, in fact I see it as a priority. But not at the expense of individual liberty. Otherwise, what did those officers work and sacrifice for?

Ohio Copper
10-10-2012, 21:06
Grow Up. There are plenty of jobs in the United States that are more hazardous than being a police officer in which the practitioners of those occupations don't ask society to put their safety before the rights of the common man.

I'm all for officer safety, in fact I see it as a priority. But not at the expense of individual liberty. Otherwise, what did those officers work and sacrifice for?

......


Sent from my PKE meter.

Just_plinking
10-10-2012, 21:36
......


Sent from my PKE meter.

I see what you mean... wait a minute, I actually don't because you didn't say anything.

DanaT
10-10-2012, 21:45
Sadly, a lesson to be learned. If it's not asked about, don't volunteer the info. Chances are the officer would not have guessed or asked about it unless it was a major speeding or reckless driving etc.

WTF does "major speeding" have to do with a gun. I see people (and drive) well over 100mph all the time. I promise you probably ZERO have a gun.

How exactly does a cop make a reasonable argument that someone that is "major speeding" extrapolates to having a gun? Maybe he is just a priest late for an appointment with an alter boy?

frank4570
10-10-2012, 22:17
WTF does "major speeding" have to do with a gun. I see people (and drive) well over 100mph all the time. I promise you probably ZERO have a gun.

How exactly does a cop make a reasonable argument that someone that is "major speeding" extrapolates to having a gun? Maybe he is just a priest late for an appointment with an alter boy?

He probably just asks. Lots of people are stupid enough to be violating the law AND talk about it.

DanaT
10-10-2012, 22:47
Here is a link to some guys that don't have to worry about getting their pension. As a suit and tie warrior, look how much savings you got as a tax payer. Was it another gnarly day on your cell phone and computer all day?

Please dont worry. I never intended nor believed that your type would understand the obtuse reference that I was making based upon the post(s) that I commented on.

The post I commented on was making a reference to laws that have been passed that are immoral and not within the values system of the USA.

Here where the two posts:

And we all share the blame for allowing the states to assume the power to take such rights from us.

I agree. Free Speech is almost gone too.

But trust me, I understand for some people it is all about following orders and not thinking for themselves if something is morally right or wrong, only what is written on a piece of paper and claiming it legal. Many things throughout history have been legal under the laws of a country that is in power at the time, but that does not make them moral nor absolve someone of culpability of immoral actions.

I am not that old, but I suspect that there are people on GT who remember not so long ago in the USA when black people had to ride in the back of the bus. Then along came a black woman named Rosa Parks who refused to move. Soon after, on March 7, 1965 there was Bloody Sunday. Although the acts were “legal” I seriously doubt many would say that they were moral.

Let me ask you, was what happened on Bloody Sunday (March 7, 1965) moral then? Is it moral now? Was is it at time legal?

My comment, as directed to this post is although the OP may have been arrested / charge with something that is "illegal", is moral? If you cannot respond that it is moral (based upon the values we hold as Americans) then the only answer that one can come up with is that at least the person enforcing something immoral got to go home and gets a pension because that is what I have seen on GT they most worry about.

I have yet to see one officer talk about if an action is moral, only that it is "legal" (by their own view of the world).

My opinion is one that cannot separate legal and moral, is simply an order away from being a KZ guard.

Now, in reality, I suspect that most of the blow hards do have some sense of the difference between legal/moral in real life but dont want to admit it. If you dont and simply follow what is legal (orders), then my judgement of you being merely an order away from KZ guard stands.

Dragoon44
10-10-2012, 23:21
I have yet to see one officer talk about if an action is moral, only that it is "legal" (by their own view of the world).

That is probably because you lack the ability to actually define immoral by any objective relevant standard. Like many your views of "moral" and "immoral" is defined by your personal likes or dislikes.

I am not that old, but I suspect that there are people on GT who remember not so long ago in the USA when black people had to ride in the back of the bus. Then along came a black woman named Rosa Parks who refused to move.

Oh gee, one of the reoccurring favorites of the "Gun Rights crowd". those that lack the intelligence to see there is absolutely no correlation between the civil rights movement and their "gun rights" desires.

To Start with blacks were denied rights due to their race/color. The discriminatory laws applied to just them not others. This is not the case with Gun Laws which apply to everyone regardless of race, religion, or sex.

My opinion is one that cannot separate legal and moral, is simply an order away from being a KZ guard.

And you have demonstrated time and time again that your opinions are based on noting more than your own bias in your little anti cop crusade.

AK_Stick
10-10-2012, 23:26
2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.


While that may be fine for how you hunt, and where, remember, not all of us sit on our butts in a stand we walked to, 30 min before the sun comes up, overlooking a corn field/deer feeder.


I'm going to guess you've probably never run across a bear while you were packing out that animal you just shot on your backboard.


Or seen glowing eyeballs in the beam of your headlight, as you gut an animal in the dark.



My handgun gets used fairly regularly, both in AK, and when I hunted in MN, and TX.

itisbruno
10-10-2012, 23:27
If Dragoon has his duty black powder pistol they gave him when he retired in the car, are antique firearms allowed in Ohio?

Lone_Wolfe
10-10-2012, 23:29
If Dragoon has his duty black powder pistol they gave him when he retired in the car, are antique firearms allowed in Ohio?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

AK_Stick
10-10-2012, 23:31
only if he's wearing his cavalry hat.

Dragoon44
10-10-2012, 23:31
If Dragoon has his duty black powder pistol they gave him when he retired in the car, are antique firearms allowed in Ohio?

it's allowed wherever I say it's allowed!!!

Dang Bro I haven't seen you in ages! thought they finally caught up with you and put you in the looney bin where you belong!

:tongueout::rofl:

DanaT
10-10-2012, 23:34
That is probably because you lack the ability to actually define immoral by any objective relevant standard. Like many your views of "moral" and "immoral" is defined by your personal likes or dislikes.

Said the KZ guard...



Oh gee, one of the reoccurring favorites of the "Gun Rights crowd". those that lack the intelligence to see there is absolutely no correlation between the civil rights movement and their "gun rights" desires.

Yes. No one is as smart as you. We are all idiots.

I suspect you took a job as cop because you lacked the intelligence to get a better job. Shall we continue the insults that you started or will go go cry to Russ???


To Start with blacks were denied rights due to their race/color. The discriminatory laws applied to just them not others. This is not the case with Gun Laws which apply to everyone regardless of race, religion, or sex.



[QUOTE=Dragoon44;19505966]And you have demonstrated time and time again that your opinions are based on noting more than your own bias in your lcop crusade.

And you have shown your bias against critical thinking with your won little cops are god crusade.

You have made the esteemed position as the sole person on my ignore list.

itisbruno
10-10-2012, 23:35
it's allowed wherever I say it's allowed!!!

Dang Bro I haven't seen you in ages! thought they finally caught up with you and put you in the looney bin where you belong!

:tongueout::rofl:


Escaped, I did


:tease:

Lone_Wolfe
10-10-2012, 23:36
it's allowed wherever I say it's allowed!!!

Dang Bro I haven't seen you in ages! thought they finally caught up with you and put you in the looney bin where you belong!

:tongueout::rofl:

:rofl: :rofl:

I'm saving him a seat in the looney bin! :crazy:

itisbruno
10-10-2012, 23:38
:rofl: :rofl:

I'm saving him a seat in the looney bin! :crazy:

"Years ago, when I was backpacking across western Europe. I was just outside Barcelona, hiking in the foothills of mount Tibidabo. I was at the end of this path, and I came to a clearing, and there was a lake, very secluded, and there were tall trees all around. It was dead silent. Gorgeous. And across the lake I saw, a beautiful woman, bathing herself. She was crying..."

:whistling:

AK_Stick
10-10-2012, 23:53
What makes it all the more disappointing is the abundance of "pro-gun" types on here who are so eager to blame the guy arrested for not knowing the law or having a permit.


Why? This entire issue, is solely his fault.


Had he cared to look, he'd have known he was illegal and wouldn't have gotten arrested.


Instead, he chose to be willfully ignorant, and found himself on the other side of the law.



You don't have to agree with the law, and if you don't, then by all means, lobby, and try to change it. But agree or disagree, you're still required to abide by it.


As a gun owner, I think we should blame the fellow gun owners who do not follow the rules. For they give the rest of us bad names.

certifiedfunds
10-10-2012, 23:55
Why? This entire issue, is solely his fault.


Had he cared to look, he'd have known he was illegal and wouldn't have gotten arrested.


Instead, he chose to be willfully ignorant, and found himself on the other side of the law.



You don't have to agree with the law, and if you don't, then by all means, lobby, and try to change it. But agree or disagree, you're still required to abide by it.


As a gun owner, I think we should blame the fellow gun owners who do not follow the rules. For they give the rest of us bad names.

You and I disagree on many things but I have to say seeing you take this particular position is very disappointing.

AK_Stick
10-11-2012, 00:05
I don't agree with the gun laws of Ohio.


But I have to follow the gun laws of Ohio, while I'm in Ohio.


I can not complain that its anyone else's fault, if I take my guns to Ohio, and they lock me up, because I'm breaking the law.



If I go to a different state, I can't hunt by my states rules. I can't drive by my states speed limits, why should I be able to carry a gun, based upon MY state of residences rules? That makes absolutely no sense.

certifiedfunds
10-11-2012, 00:11
I don't agree with the gun laws of Ohio.


But I have to follow the gun laws of Ohio, while I'm in Ohio.


I can not complain that its anyone else's fault, if I take my guns to Ohio, and they lock me up, because I'm breaking the law.



If I go to a different state, I can't hunt by my states rules. I can't drive by my states speed limits, why should I be able to carry a gun, based upon MY state of residences rules? That makes absolutely no sense.





A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



That's why.

I'd hoped to see more here outraged that a fellow gun owner minding his own business fell victim to the unconstitutional and immoral laws in the state of Ohio.

itisbruno
10-11-2012, 00:15
The states make their own laws. If you actually read them before you go and do not like them, stay away.

AK_Stick
10-11-2012, 00:16
You claim its unconstitutional, and immoral. The Supreme court, who's job it is to govern such things, has ruled otherwise.

I don't agree with their laws, but how I feel, really doesn't have much to do with the legality of it.

I'd like to see a lot of things. However, what I'd like, and reality, don't always mesh.

certifiedfunds
10-11-2012, 00:22
You claim its unconstitutional, and immoral. The Supreme court, who's job it is to govern such things, has ruled otherwise.



The Supreme Court is wrong. Again. Happens a lot.

BTW, when did they rule it was moral?



In your mind, from where do you get your right to arms?