Tula or Wolf? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Tula or Wolf?


Walk Soft
10-07-2012, 20:58
I'm wanting to buy a case of plinking ammo to shoot out of my new Colt LE6920(that you guys helped me decide on).
Does anyone have a preference between Tula and Wolf?
I realize they're both bottom of the barrel,but buying the Colt has put a strain of my "gun" budget.

mvician
10-07-2012, 21:11
MFS over Wolf or Tula.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Ammunition/Rifle-Ammunition%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104532480/MFS-223-Remington-Rifle-Ammo/1395369.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-ammunition-rifle-ammunition%2F_%2FN-1100190%2B4294759021%2FNe-4294759021%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104532480%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%25253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104691780%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WT z_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%253BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104691780%3Bcat104532480


use code 2FALL for $5 shipping before Oct 14th.

jbglock
10-07-2012, 22:50
I'd pay a bit more and get some PMC Bronze .223 55grain. Funtion and accuracy are great in my 6920. Went to a gun show yesterday and just about everyone selling ammo had it for $7 a box or less.

cowboywannabe
10-07-2012, 22:57
Tul is cheaper.

JimBianchi
10-07-2012, 23:05
Silver Bear is my favorite cheap ammo.

Very accurate too.

MAC702
10-07-2012, 23:11
I bought 1000 rounds of Tula .223 when Cabela's put it on sale 2 years ago.

It jams every .223 rifle I own, including Ruger Mini-14's. I've never jammed a Ruger Mini-14 in my entire life until then. And when I say jam, I mean jam, not malfunction. It sticks in the chamber so badly, the rim breaks, and you have to extract the fired case with a cleaning rod.

An AR can't get through one magazine. It'll jam a Mini-14 at some point during the day.

And I still have 850 rounds of this crap.

I've not heard of problems with Wolf, but I've not shot much of it.

WoodenPlank
10-07-2012, 23:27
I'd try a bit of both before buying in bulk. The last Colt barrel I had did not like steel cased at ALL.

cowboywannabe
10-07-2012, 23:58
Is it "tul" or tula"? Ive only seen tul ammo, not tula ammo.

wildmanjeff
10-08-2012, 06:50
I can't speak for others' rifles, I built 4 rifles this year so far, each one gets tested with couple mags of Tulammo just to see how gas system functions=if it functions with lower powered ammo, it will probably never fail to cycle with 855 ammo.

I have had one failure out of probably 400 rounds so far, a failure to eject.

I prefer brass cased ammo for ability to reload--most ammo has went up about 20% this year. Tulammo is still $5 box at wal-mart.

It is coated with a polymer/shelac/varnish or something. I ran some thru a rifle with no gas tube to sight it in, and it wanted to stick in the chamber since it was not immediately ejected, but it was still able to be cycled out with the charging handle. I did not notice any residue or anything in the chamber when cleaning. It is also supposed to be non-corossive now, but I clean throughly anyway as it is dirty burning ammo.

for practice and testing I recommend it, also for stockpile, in case next administration decides to tax the hell out of ammo and ammo becomes 200% or more what it costs now.

Walk Soft
10-08-2012, 07:03
[QUOTE=wildmanjeff;19496351

for practice and testing I recommend it, also for stockpile, in case next administration decides to tax the hell out of ammo and ammo becomes 200% or more what it costs now.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I just bought two cases of green tip,but now i need something to shoot.I'll probably buy a couple boxes of 20 of Tula just to try,Thanks.
http://http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z433/lexibilly/SAM_0253.jpg

Walk Soft
10-08-2012, 07:03
I'd try a bit of both before buying in bulk. The last Colt barrel I had did not like steel cased at ALL.

I think that's what I'm gonna do.

Walk Soft
10-08-2012, 07:04
Silver Bear is my favorite cheap ammo.

Very accurate too.

If I can find some I'll give it a shot,thanks.

Walk Soft
10-08-2012, 07:12
MFS over Wolf or Tula.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Ammunition/Rifle-Ammunition%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104532480/MFS-223-Remington-Rifle-Ammo/1395369.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-ammunition-rifle-ammunition%2F_%2FN-1100190%2B4294759021%2FNe-4294759021%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104532480%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%25253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104691780%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WT z_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%253BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104691780%3Bcat104532480


use code 2FALL for $5 shipping before Oct 14th.

Thanks for the link.I ordered two UMC value packs,15 boxes of the MFS(on sale) and 15 boxes of Federal AE LCT ammo.
I've noticed most places prices are pretty much the same on ammo.Shipping cost is the biggest variable.

Jeremy_K
10-08-2012, 07:16
FWIW I've fired about 100 rounds each of TulAmmo steel, Wolf steel, and Hornady match steel through my Stag out of 5 different mags and haven't had one malfunction.

rockapede
10-08-2012, 07:17
I've shot probably 1000 rounds of Tulammo. Other than one light load (that felt light) that didn't cycle far enough to strip a new round, but ejected just fine, I've had no issues.

SGT HATRED
10-08-2012, 07:18
I too have had problems with tula in my bushmaster. The case jamming in the barrel and without a ram it's impossible to get out. However this happens occasionally with all the steel cased ammo I purchased. I found a guy selling 800 rounds of mixed ammo for 80$. It was wolf classic military, tula and brown bear. Not every mag would have a jam but it happened more frequently with the tula...

Walk Soft
10-08-2012, 07:20
FWIW I've fired about 100 rounds each of TulAmmo steel, Wolf steel, and Hornady match steel through my Stag out of 5 different mags and haven't had one malfunction.

It's worth something.I was hoping for a lot more replies like this.

Walk Soft
10-08-2012, 07:22
I bought a case of Tula in 9mm and never had an issue in my Glocks.Glocks have spoiled me.

Glockdude1
10-08-2012, 07:22
M193

:cool:

RatDrall
10-08-2012, 07:37
if it functions with lower powered ammo, it will probably never fail to cycle with 855 ammo.

If it functions with low powered ammo, it's over gassed, isn't it?

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 07:58
I bought 1000 rounds of Tula .223 when Cabela's put it on sale 2 years ago.

It jams every .223 rifle I own, including Ruger Mini-14's. I've never jammed a Ruger Mini-14 in my entire life until then. And when I say jam, I mean jam, not malfunction. It sticks in the chamber so badly, the rim breaks, and you have to extract the fired case with a cleaning rod.

An AR can't get through one magazine. It'll jam a Mini-14 at some point during the day.

And I still have 850 rounds of this crap.

I've not heard of problems with Wolf, but I've shot much of it.

I'll pm you my address. I'll pay shipping.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

wildmanjeff
10-08-2012, 08:03
Yeah I just bought two cases of green tip,but now i need something to shoot.I'll probably buy a couple boxes of 20 of Tula just to try,Thanks.
http://http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z433/lexibilly/SAM_0253.jpg

Same here bud-- I like the M855 ammo. I was lucky enough to get 3x 840 round earlier this summer when it was still $360 each with shipping--hope those prices return

wildmanjeff
10-08-2012, 08:12
If it functions with low powered ammo, it's over gassed, isn't it?

not necessarily--there should be a range that it functions with. I personally use mid length gas system on the 4 rifles I built, 16 in FN barrels with PWS 556 FH/comp ,Spike's tactical T-2 buffers, standard buffer spring- and it recoils really soft in my opinion.
The carbine gas system is supposed to have a higher gas impulse than the mid-length gas system. I had read on AR15 web forums that they can be overgassed, but I have only shot one carbine with carbine gas system. kick was a little harder, don't know specifics on the gun though (just shot one at the range).

SCSU74
10-08-2012, 10:23
I'm wanting to buy a case of plinking ammo to shoot out of my new Colt LE6920(that you guys helped me decide on).
Does anyone have a preference between Tula and Wolf?
I realize they're both bottom of the barrel,but buying the Colt has put a strain of my "gun" budget.

I got a cmmg .22 drop in bolt. Much cheaper than either :)


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

wildmanjeff
10-08-2012, 10:54
I got a cmmg .22 drop in bolt. Much cheaper than either :)


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

I don't shoot enough to justify the cost of the conversion. If I was able to go out plinking more I probably would

WoodenPlank
10-08-2012, 11:39
I too have had problems with tula in my bushmaster. The case jamming in the barrel and without a ram it's impossible to get out. However this happens occasionally with all the steel cased ammo I purchased. I found a guy selling 800 rounds of mixed ammo for 80$. It was wolf classic military, tula and brown bear. Not every mag would have a jam but it happened more frequently with the tula...

It's possible to get one out without a ram, depending on how bad it is. I've done it with a hung Wolf case in a Colt barrel by pulling back on the charging handle and mortaring the stock.

If it functions with low powered ammo, it's over gassed, isn't it?

Not always.

RJHUB
10-08-2012, 12:40
Ive shot Tulammo in a 6920 and a midlength PSA upper with no issues. I shot 200 rnds of wolf in a stag model 3 when it was new no issues and then had a tulammo stick in the chamber after dumping a couple 30rnd mags. It was smoking hot. I popped it out with a cleaning rod when it cooled down and then shot ~100 more rounds without an issue.
I shoot Tulammo in 9mm,.40, and .45 without a problem.
It smells really bad tho.
I only use for range and plinking. WOULD NOT depend on it for defensive ammo.

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 12:52
For those having problems w/ stuck cases, check your chambers for size.

WoodenPlank
10-08-2012, 15:29
For those having problems w/ stuck cases, check your chambers for size.

In my case(heh), it was caused by a case mouth failure. Had another one 10 minutes later in a different gun from the same case of ammo.

Matthew Courtney
10-08-2012, 15:49
Generally Silver Bear > Wolf > Brown Bear > Tula, but different rifles have preferences. Folks have seen improvement after cleaning and polishing their chambers, changing BCG's, and changing shock buffers.

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 16:18
In my case(heh), it was caused by a case mouth failure. Had another one 10 minutes later in a different gun from the same case of ammo.

Im not an ammunition guy at all. Is it possible to get a lot w/ thicker cases from the norm which would cause this issue w/ in-spec chambers?

Generally Silver Bear > Wolf > Brown Bear > Tula, but different rifles have preferences. Folks have seen improvement after cleaning and polishing their chambers, changing BCG's, and changing shock buffers.

I've had two issues w/ Silver Bear and Tula has been awesome in my experience.

Changing buffers can make a difference. Carrying a couple buffer of different weights is a good idea when trying out different ammunition.

Bluestreakfl
10-08-2012, 16:24
The biggest thing is cleaning when switching between brass and steel case. I've shot some brass but mostly tulammo steel through my AR and after several hundred rounds I have yet to have any kind of malfunction. It is however a bit dirtier than most brass ammo, hence the more frequent cleaning.


Sent from my phone booth

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 16:29
The biggest thing is cleaning when switching between brass and steel case. I've shot some brass but mostly tulammo steel through my AR and after several hundred rounds I have yet to have any kind of malfunction. It is however a bit dirtier than most brass ammo, hence the more frequent cleaning.


Sent from my phone booth

I have heard this a lot but have experienced it not to be important. I've purposely loaded magazines w/ mixed brass and steel cased ammunition, hundreds of rounds at a time in one range trip. I did the same at a class this weekend. I never clean just lube.

WinterWizard
10-08-2012, 16:45
The problem with steel case isn't the gun, it's the ammo. The steel case doesn't expand like brass, allowing spent gases and powder residue back into the chamber, instead of out the barrel. This builds up quickly on the chamber walls and bingo! ... casings get stuck. I've heard mixing 1 brass round for every 9 steel ones (3 brass rounds per mag) will help this problem, as the brass will gather a lot of the crap that's built up on the chamber walls and take it out with it. Just a trick I've heard/read.

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 17:12
WInterWizard, explain how people can go thousands of rounds w/o cleaning or issue w/ steel cased ammunition while some get cases stuck?

wildmanjeff
10-08-2012, 17:18
WInterWizard, explain how people can go thousands of rounds w/o cleaning or issue w/ steel cased ammunition while some get cases stuck?

though not directed toward me--there are a lot of variables from rifle to rifle, even from one manufacturer of lower parts kits to another.

cleaning and how well it previously maintained.

probably most crucial in this thread is the chamber of the barrel and headspacing. Also to this thread with reliability of low powered ammo would be the gas system--carbine would be best for lower powered ammo reliability

wildmanjeff
10-08-2012, 17:23
also different chamber types --there is Wylde, 223, and 556.

another thing is that from what I understand tulammo and or wolf have changed from a lacquer/shellac to a polymer/plastic coating to reduce hangups in the chamber--so even the age of the ammo could change things drastically

TactiCool
10-08-2012, 17:37
I've run thousands of rounds of tula through my bcm middy with zero malfunctions, but I always run the standard weight buffer with steel case. Running an H buffer increases the likelyhood of malfunctions to occur, for the obvious reasons, even in a 7" gas system.

Also, stay away from monarch steel case. It keyholes badly, and even in properly spec'd rifles too.

FireForged
10-08-2012, 18:30
I too have had problems with tula in my bushmaster. The case jamming in the barrel and without a ram it's impossible to get out. However this happens occasionally with all the steel cased ammo I purchased. I found a guy selling 800 rounds of mixed ammo for 80$. It was wolf classic military, tula and brown bear. Not every mag would have a jam but it happened more frequently with the tula...

yep.. I have been seeing this since 98-99 and its the reason I do not use soviet stuff in a AR.

CharlieDelta127
10-08-2012, 18:41
I'd pay a bit more and get some PMC Bronze .223 55grain. Funtion and accuracy are great in my 6920. Went to a gun show yesterday and just about everyone selling ammo had it for $7 a box or less.

I second this, if you look hard you can get it for $6 a box. But $7 is pretty dang good...

check luckygunner.com, sportsmansguide.com, ammotogo.com

I'm sure others can give you some more suggestions.

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 19:15
I get so confused. I have never had a stuck case using steel cased ammunition. In fact I have had only 3 issues w/ steel cased ammunition in thousands of rounds (2 short strokes, and one failure to feed w/ a HP round. What am I doing wrong? Have I just been extremely lucky? Someone help me understand.

What manufacture of AR are some of you using when having issues w/ steel cased ammunition?

WinterWizard
10-08-2012, 19:36
WInterWizard, explain how people can go thousands of rounds w/o cleaning or issue w/ steel cased ammunition while some get cases stuck?

Because for the most part, it's not an issue. Also remember, not every gun is identical, not every shooter maintains their rifle the same, and not every shooter shoots the same amount of steel case ammo in one outing. Get it...?

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have an issue. But if you are implying that steel case ammo doesn't cause problems and everyone is imagining things or lying, then you've got issues, my friend.

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 19:47
Because for the most part, it's not an issue. Also remember, not every gun is identical, not every shooter maintains their rifle the same, and not every shooter shoots the same amount of steel case ammo in one outing. Get it...?

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have an issue. But if you are implying that steel case ammo doesn't cause problems and everyone is imagining things or lying, then you've got issues, my friend.

So where's the variation? I never clean, I treat my rifles like the tool they are. I let them sit out in the rain all day this past Sat. I've done the same thing w/ 7 different ARs I've owned w/ the same results. Everything from Spikes, DD, BCM, LWRC, and personally assembled using DD BCGs and higher end barrels. I run steel almost exclusively. You'd think if anyone had problems it would be me. Don't you think?

I'm saying anyone is lying. I'm saying people may need to take a closer look at the equipment they are using. I'd like to know what rifles are having issues.

Not busting anyones chops, just confused as to why some do and some don't have issues. And why some insist it's the ammunition and not the rifle when some can run the ammo 99%.

WoodenPlank
10-08-2012, 19:54
So where's the variation? I never clean, I treat my rifles like the tool they are. I let them sit out in the rain all day this past Sat. I've done the same thing w/ 7 different ARs I've owned w/ the same results. Everything from Spikes, DD, BCM, LWRC, and personally assembled using DD BCGs and higher end barrels. I run steel almost exclusively. You'd think if anyone had problems it would be me. Don't you think?

I'm saying anyone is lying. I'm saying people may need to take a closer look at the equipment they are using. I'd like to know what rifles are having issues.

Not busting anyones chops, just confused as to why some do and some don't have issues. And why some insist it's the ammunition and not the rifle when some can run the ammo 99%.

Some rifles with tighter/properly/improperly cut chambers, ammunition manufacturing variations from lot to lot, etc. Tolerance stacking can be a bear.

WinterWizard
10-08-2012, 21:24
So where's the variation? I never clean, I treat my rifles like the tool they are. I let them sit out in the rain all day this past Sat. I've done the same thing w/ 7 different ARs I've owned w/ the same results. Everything from Spikes, DD, BCM, LWRC, and personally assembled using DD BCGs and higher end barrels. I run steel almost exclusively. You'd think if anyone had problems it would be me. Don't you think?

I'm saying anyone is lying. I'm saying people may need to take a closer look at the equipment they are using. I'd like to know what rifles are having issues.

Not busting anyones chops, just confused as to why some do and some don't have issues. And why some insist it's the ammunition and not the rifle when some can run the ammo 99%.

Well, there are .223 chambers and 5.56 chambers. Chrome-lined chambers and non-chrome-lined chambers. Clean guns, dirty guns. Etc, etc, etc.

I am not saying if you run steel ammo you WILL have a problem. I am just saying it CAN happen. And there really is not much rhyme or reason as to what rifles will be affected.

As I said before, you haven't had a problem. Good for you. Shoot cheap, steel-cased ammo to your heart's content.

mjkeat
10-08-2012, 22:31
The problem with steel case isn't the gun, it's the ammo.

It can happen w/ any ammunition.

This is what I'm questioning. Please explain why when in my experience the issue seems to be in rifles from manufacturers who are known for having out of spec chambers. Blaming the ammunition appears to be a cover up for those who own or sell these ARs. Just like some manufacturers void warranties if steel cased ammunition is used.

And I'm not the only one who uses steel cased ammunition w/ no real issues. There are guys using 5-10k a year w/o issue.

There has been a lot of talk on this. I keep thinking there was a recent article where a guy w/ help from friends ran through a pallet full of wolf w/o issue.

TangoFoxtrot
10-09-2012, 04:36
Tula or Wolf?
NEITHER! :whistling:

kirgi08
10-09-2012, 10:43
I love Wolf in my rifle,I can cm at 250,kinda like that.'08.

RJHUB
10-09-2012, 13:04
I always figure you get what you pay for.
I pay $4.97/20 at walmart for Tulammo and thats about $2 cheaper than any brass case I can find.
I think its worth the chance of a stuck case every now and then. Although it seems very rare.
I had a bad round last week. Tried to fire 3 times and
primer never ignited.
When I want the best odds for flawless function I use the
now more expensive brass case ammo.
Only had a stuck case in Stag.
I shot Wolf in the same rifle when it was new and it never failed.

TactiCool
10-09-2012, 15:46
I always figure you get what you pay for.
I pay $4.97/20 at walmart for Tulammo and thats about $2 cheaper than any brass case I can find.
I think its worth the chance of a stuck case every now and then. Although it seems very rare.
I had a bad round last week. Tried to fire 3 times and
primer never ignited.
When I want the best odds for flawless function I use the
now more expensive brass case ammo.
Only had a stuck case in Stag.
I shot Wolf in the same rifle when it was new and it never failed.

Thing is, when you buy individual boxes of ammo, you don't always know how it was stored or transported so moisture could be an issue. That is why I always buy spam cans to ensure that the ammunition is not compromised before I put it into the gun.

Hour13
10-10-2012, 07:04
OP, like Plank mentioned, try a little of each, see what it likes. ARs are like snowflakes when it comes to steel-case, and some just flat-out don't like steel.

Cabela's "Herters" steel(re-boxed Tula), has run wonderfully in my PSA, Stag, RRA, and BCM rifles.

The carbines run H-buffers with the hotter quality ammo, I swap in a standard buffer when I'm going to blow steel at the range.

..

FLglockdude
10-11-2012, 21:29
My M&P15 runs Tula great. I've fired probably 700-800 rounds with no issues. I haven't tried Wolf.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Darkangel1846
10-13-2012, 12:58
I'd try a bit of both before buying in bulk. The last Colt barrel I had did not like steel cased at ALL.

Only shoot brass case in that colt! If its the 1 in 7 twist then its close to precision...tight tolerance....you'll get a steel casing stuck with hot carbon. JMHO!:wavey:

mjkeat
10-13-2012, 17:34
Currently preparing to clean my ARs for the first time since this time last year and only because I'm going to try out a new lubricant. A year, thousands of rounds of Tula, no cleaning, 3 failures to feed. How was I able to make it through? :dunno:

WoodenPlank
10-13-2012, 18:15
Only shoot brass case in that colt! If its the 1 in 7 twist then its close to precision...tight tolerance....you'll get a steel casing stuck with hot carbon. JMHO!:wavey:

I got rid of my last Colt barrel 2 years ago. My only current AR is built on an LMT 10.5" upper.