Serious Hunters- Would Would You Do? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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GLWyandotte
10-08-2012, 07:58
My boss's boss is heartless.
We picked up a large account and she pulled any scheduled vacations until it opens. There are 20 in our mgt group, nobody has a scheduled vacation except me- scheduled since January.
The account opens 11/5.

I take 1 vacation in the summer, 1 in the fall; I usually lose time I accrue as it doens't roll over. I have 5 weeks a year, usually can only use 3 as there's always a reason why I'm needed.
I have assisted in the opening of every account in my 13 years with the company.

She is attempting to pull my deer hunting vacation, which begins 11/3. It will (or would have been) the first year I take my daughter. She has looked forward to this for years. She's taken firearms safety, got a new rifle and it looks like I'm going to have to give her horrid news.
Where I live deer hunting is a way of life and a supplement to how we feed our family through the winter.
My bioch high level boss could care less.

I appreciate any serious advice. "You're lucky you have a job" doesn't help me. I have written her an email, laid out my continued commitment to our company and she hasn't even acknowledged my request to take my approved vacation.
:steamed:

FLIPPER 348
10-08-2012, 08:03
You are lucky to have a job.

....and 5 weeks of vacation

Rabid Rabbit
10-08-2012, 08:04
Sounds like a good time to find another job. I've never left a job because of money, only because of lack of respect have I left a job. Once in a while sure you work the overtime, put off some time off and change your work schedule. But no vacation for almost a year and no response is not what a responsible boss does. Cancel the vacation, find another job.

FullClip
10-08-2012, 08:08
Sorry about the situation, but sounds like you are screwed. If you go hunting for deer, you may end up hunting for a job right afterwards.

Having 13 years with the company and having 5 weeks of vacation a year (even if you don't get to take it) would be very hard to replace.

Is there any possible way were you can go hunting during the days of your planned vacation, but do some work from home (or deer camp) at night? Wireless modem type stuff?

Feel for ya' but the boss is the boss, and going against her orders may land you someplace you don't want to be.

Reyn
10-08-2012, 08:29
Man,I would be ticked. Bow season opens here the 15th. I have vacation the last week in Oct and the first two weeks in November. It is what I wait for all year.

If it happened to me then I couldn't do much. I have to support my family. How demanding is your position? Are you someone that would be difficult to replace? If so you could approach the boss and lay out what you have done and how others could handle the task for this period.

Hunting is very big here too. I know guys that get into work that revolves around hunting. I know carpenters that will work all they can just to take the whole hunting season off.

I know at least one that would probably quit a good paying job if it came between choosing. He is working 7 12 s and all he thinks about is deer hunting. I don't know what he will do if they don't change the schedule back. They told him it was just for the next two weeks.

puckhead
10-08-2012, 08:34
How far away is your camp? You could go on your regular weekends. One day out is better than none

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tehan2
10-08-2012, 08:49
what if you had planned a family trip to Europe... would she refund your tickets for the family, hotel room, and lost week of vacation for your wife?

it could be a loss of $10K or so....

prism
10-08-2012, 08:56
the first year I take my daughter. She has looked forward to this for years.

if you have to work, tell her its a different week, not cancelled.

make sure it happens sometime this fall/winter. do it later in the season, or even go to another state for their season. or make it a duck hunting trip. whatever.

tantrix
10-08-2012, 08:59
You are lucky to have a job.

....and 5 weeks of vacation

Sounds to me like he doesn't have 5 weeks vacation.



OP, I don't know what you do for a living...but no job is going to stop me from taking my daughter on her first deer hunt.

redbaron007
10-08-2012, 09:02
The bad news...she's the boss, period. She makes the decisions and lives or dies by them.

Better news.....Continue to reason with her; document every conversation...if she still refuses, it may be time to move above her. Sounds like she could use a butt chew'n from someone higher up...unless....she is the owner too.....then you're screwed.

Keep trying the reasoning track.

Good Luck! Keep us posted.


:wavey:

red

napp32
10-08-2012, 09:10
Sounds like an excellent time to teach your daughter that life isn't always a smooth ride; and sometimes responsibilities override desires.

CBennett
10-08-2012, 09:16
Im not preaching because everyone has to do what they can to work and have a job to support a family..but I told myself id never have a job like that, id never take work home, and my time off is my time off. I think by now id have been long gone from a job like yours(meaning the working conditions). My advice if you can find a new job and let them know or make sure up front you know what the...rules are or whats expected of you and what you can expect from them.

Now with the economy if you cant do that..I feel for ya but looks like your stuck.

Or you can just suck it up and ride it out some places are like yours and dont really give a dung about their employees(as i said id never work at a place like that but..) and just drive on and do something else at another time(different hunt, later in the season hunt)

BUT in a job like yours if surely DO my job but give little to nothing to any other parts(meaning if they want you to work extra put forth a ton of effort lol)

on a side note for at least the first day can you get ONE day off to at least take her...or yeah in a job where they dont obviously care about you or your family is sick time a option?

redbaron007
10-08-2012, 09:18
what if you had planned a family trip to Europe... would she refund your tickets for the family, hotel room, and lost week of vacation for your wife?

it could be a loss of $10K or so....

Unfortunately, they don't have too. However, they could if they wanted to.....depends on the employer. :dunno:


:wavey:

red

Keoking
10-08-2012, 09:24
For me it would be an easy decision.
Family needs rice in their belly, shoes on their feet, and a roof over their heads. While vacation days are justified, formal vacations are often a luxury.
At my job, I try to take 1.5 weeks consecutive in the fall for Family plans, but I've had to curtail or cancel it 2 out of the last 5 years. In return, my job gives me money and my Family benefits. My vacation days are typically scattered across the year, scheduled at the last minute at times where my job isn't a ****storm.

GLWyandotte
10-08-2012, 09:26
How far away is your camp? You could go on your regular weekends. One day out is better than none

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It's only 150 miles, trouble is, I am be asked to work Fri, 11/2- Sunday, 11/11 straight. That is exactly the days of my vacation and exactly the days of my deer season.


How demanding is your position? Are you someone that would be difficult to replace?


My position is demanding and replacing me would be worst case scenario for them. Bearing that in mind, I hate to burn a bridge.

You are lucky to have a job.

....and 5 weeks of vacation

Zip it.

apphunter
10-08-2012, 09:40
Any chance you can put in a few extra hours between now and then to get the account open early?

tantrix
10-08-2012, 09:41
It's only 150 miles, trouble is, I am be asked to work Fri, 11/2- Sunday, 11/11 straight. That is exactly the days of my vacation and exactly the days of my deer season.



My position is demanding and replacing me would be worst case scenario for them. Bearing that in mind, I hate to burn a bridge.

Looks like your boss is being a *****, you have the upper hand here anyway. It's really up to you, but remember this...the memories of you and your kids can never be replaced.

Adjuster
10-08-2012, 09:49
Are you being well compensated for your quality of work and your 13 year commitment and giving up a few weeks vacation per year? What I am getting at is perhaps your employer feels they are compensating you very well for the trouble they are giving you and the flexibility they need from you. If you don't feel like your'e being paid adequately for what your'e giving to the company and your sacrifices then it may indeed be time to start shopping around for a new employer.


/

GLWyandotte
10-08-2012, 09:51
Any chance you can put in a few extra hours between now and then to get the account open early?

No, not really. I can set up some of our proprietary software, but when one service company leaves Friday at 3pm and we move in at 3:01pm in order to provide full service on Monday morning, there not alot that can be predone.

GLWyandotte
10-08-2012, 09:56
Are you being well compensated for your quality of work and your 13 year commitment and giving up a few weeks vacation per year? What I am getting at is perhaps your employer feels they are compensating you very well for the trouble they are giving you and the flexibility they need from you. If you don't feel like your'e being paid adequately for what your'e giving to the company and your sacrifices then it may indeed be time to start shopping around for a new employer.


/

It's one of those deals- I'm paid within what the market will bear for my position. I am not being compensated for lost earned time. My company is taking advantage of the fact that jobs are hard to come by. I understand this too well.
Shopping for a new employer is what I would have done 15 years ago, but I am 50 and it's just not that easy to start over, giving up security and the theoretical vacation time.

oldgraywolf
10-08-2012, 10:00
You are lucky to have a job.

....and 5 weeks of vacation

It might also be that he's worked hard to acquire a desirable skill set and has made himself valuable to his employer. In the grand scheme of things, you make your own luck.

SMOKEin
10-08-2012, 10:02
I live this all the time. I've made the decision that certain things will be missed, with the understanding that my gainful employment will lead to a higher quality of life down the road when my pace has slowed down. Having your daughter in the mix no doubt adds extra emotion to the problem, explain to her that daddy needs his job to pay for her education down the road. :). Good luck with the new account.

LSUAdman
10-08-2012, 10:38
GL - I feel for you, I really do. It's hard working with a company that see's its priorities to be yours. I'm betting that while this is the straw that broke the camel's back, it isnt the first time they have screwed you or another employee over. To add the issue with your daughter, that just plain sucks.

My last company was pretty much the same way. I only take off two weeks a year - once for my wife and I's anniversary, and one to visit family at Christmas. I was the only employee who was from another state, but who always got pinged to work Christmas?

Every year I reminded them that I managed three of the five largest accounts at our company, that my clients were happy and that there were three other people on my team that were local and who (willingly) would step up. I'd also remind them that my family obligations trump the company's obligations. It was always a tough fight, but one I had to do every year for five years.

Finally, after making one Christmas especially difficult for me (they literally hunted me down while I was taking care of my grandfather who is 90) I decided to cut bait. My wife was completely on-board, we had saved and I just wasnt happy anymore. Long story short, I started my own company, work my own hours and run things my way. It was hard - one of the toughest things I have ever done - but I'd rather be the decision maker than have someone else dictate the times I spend with my family.

No, I know this is waaaaaaay too premature for you. Good work with the letters - document everything. I'd try to see the next higher up, CEO or HR, and explain your grievance. Be willing to give something up - Christmas bonus, days off, etc. Be firm that this is important to you and that any other time would have been fine. Don't look like someone whining, portray yourself as someone who wants to make this new account work - but you also want to be a good father and husband.

If they stay firm, which they most likely will, then you can either keep working for them till retirement and nothing will change, or you do your best to find a company that respects you.

Look at it this way, do you want to retire saying "Damn, I paid for this house, this car and my daughter's education but I missed out on everything important," or "2012 and 2013 were rough years, but I found a better company and a better way of life."

You're a resource, not a tool. Don't let them treat you otherwise.

Kozel
10-08-2012, 10:39
After decade plus in one job some people do act like they own it. I have seen it many times. I have seen people loose that job over some minor, idiotic thing because they do not remember what it is like not to have a job.

Brucev
10-08-2012, 11:17
Your boss's boss is boss. You are the only one w/ a vacation issue. Reschedule the deer hunt. Explain it to your daughter.

billkill
10-08-2012, 11:34
<------ does not know anyone who, at the end of their life said: "Damn, I wish I would have worked all of those extra hours instead of spending time with my family doing___"

1-2man
10-08-2012, 11:38
Vacation? What is that???

RSJJTJ
10-08-2012, 12:17
I hear minimum wage jobs are extremely flexible with hours and days off! Heck, I bet they would allow you an entire week off with a mear shrug of the shoulders. Perhaps your company sees you as an employee who was hired to do a job. I grew up in western Ny where the 1st day of hunting and fishing season were considered holidays. That didn't translate to "everyone gets a free pass for hobby day". Sure you can "supplement" your winter food supply with a freezer full of deer, but from the sounds of it I would say you'd survive without it. Keep the job, your daughter should understand. Won't be her first disappointment or her last, it's life.

iiibbb
10-08-2012, 12:30
<------ does not know anyone who, at the end of their life said: "Damn, I wish I would have worked all of those extra hours instead of spending time with my family doing___"

That's because you haven't made friends friends with people who are about to die of exposure under a bridge because they can't hold a job.

I've missed the last 2 hunting seasons because of work and family issues; make do.

mhill
10-08-2012, 12:47
If you want to remain employed I would cancel the vacation. However you have 4 weeks of vacation left. I'd schedule the other 4 weeks till the end of the year. 2 in Nov. 2 in Dec. Might as well take your alloted vacation since they aren't going out of their way for you. If that doesn't work start taking ever Friday off.

Gallium
10-08-2012, 12:49
OP,

I don't think you have put everything on the table in complete perspective. Often times (I am plenty guilty of this) I make emotional decisions because I am thinking of "the kids". (the macro variation is, "It's for the children!"). Funny this is, kids are far more resilient than adults. Explain to THE CHILD what happened, and what the ramifications are for not doing this. Make all of your life "disappointments" more of learning experiences that let downs.

Do this thing with the new client, and take all of your lawful vacation time before you lose it, if they won't roll it over into the next year.

AK_Stick
10-08-2012, 12:54
I'd go talk to her, and see if you can't take the first half, or the last half of the week off, and make it a short season with your daughter.

HoldHard
10-08-2012, 13:02
Once the new client is up and running smoothly take December off.

HH

SMOKEin
10-08-2012, 13:04
<------ does not know anyone who, at the end of their life said: "Damn, I wish I would have worked all of those extra hours instead of spending time with my family doing___"

That's a fun quote to use, but how many people collecting unemployment run around saying "boy I'm sure glad I went hunting for the week".

SC Tiger
10-08-2012, 13:18
My boss's boss is heartless.
We picked up a large account and she pulled any scheduled vacations until it opens. There are 20 in our mgt group, nobody has a scheduled vacation except me- scheduled since January.
The account opens 11/5.

I take 1 vacation in the summer, 1 in the fall; I usually lose time I accrue as it doens't roll over. I have 5 weeks a year, usually can only use 3 as there's always a reason why I'm needed.
I have assisted in the opening of every account in my 13 years with the company.

She is attempting to pull my deer hunting vacation, which begins 11/3. It will (or would have been) the first year I take my daughter. She has looked forward to this for years. She's taken firearms safety, got a new rifle and it looks like I'm going to have to give her horrid news.
Where I live deer hunting is a way of life and a supplement to how we feed our family through the winter.
My bioch high level boss could care less.

I appreciate any serious advice. "You're lucky you have a job" doesn't help me. I have written her an email, laid out my continued commitment to our company and she hasn't even acknowledged my request to take my approved vacation.
:steamed:

I would schedule the first available week now and try to re-schedule the hunting trip.

Also check your employee manual (if your company has one) to see if there is a policy for this.

If you have annual performance reviews, mention it during the time when you get to gripe at your boss (even though it's their boss' decision).

If you are doing a new installation I can see why they are wanting you to not be out, though it still sucks.

Powers77
10-08-2012, 13:20
If it can't be worked out, plan something else with your daughter. The time together is more important than the specific activity.
Consider the both of you taking up bow hunting. In most states that really opens up you deer hunting season and by the way once you do it you will be hooked. May need a cross bow for her.
Like you, I'm fortunate that I have a fair amount of vacation time. But, I also have a demanding job that usually has a lot of last minute stuff come up. I end up taking a lot of 4-5 day weekends to use up my time. Actually kind of like it, as it gives me a needed break and I don't come back to the avalanche of emails etc... that pile up when I take a week or more off at once.

F350
10-08-2012, 13:47
Someone in your position can possibly do some damage; bide your time, when you see your opportunity SCREW HER OVER!!!

Con43
10-08-2012, 14:08
You are lucky to have a job.

....and 5 weeks of vacation




You sir are a tool :steamed:

HoldHard
10-08-2012, 14:25
How about working remotely to support the client? A cell phone, notebook computer and a 4G wireless card gets me online as long as there is coverage.

HH

VC-Racing
10-08-2012, 14:57
Someone in your position can possibly do some damage; bide your time, when you see your opportunity SCREW HER OVER!!!

Yep... Stick it deep and when it stops, push for a lil bit more.....:cool:

Keoking
10-08-2012, 15:03
<------ does not know anyone who, at the end of their life said: "Damn, I wish I would have worked all of those extra hours instead of spending time with my family doing___"

<--- Sees plenty of people on the news who don't really want their kids to be better off then they were.
<--- Grew up poor but had parents who sacrificed a lot to give him opportunities to get ahead.
<--- Is willing to forego fancy vacations for the rest of his life to try to guarantee an easier life for his wife and kid 10, 20, 30 years from now.

bmoore
10-08-2012, 15:07
Get out of the private sector. You will probably take a pay cut but you will not be at the wrath of some goofball who just cares about greenbacks (in their pocket not yours). Ok private sector guys lets hear it............lets hear about how hard you work banging out those 9-5'ers monday-friday. Tell me how hard you guys work and how I just walk to the mailbox every two weeks and make like 540K a month.

Shinesintx
10-08-2012, 15:13
Quit the job and go hunting.

Get a job with the Post Office or American Airlines. Maybe you should consider moving to the San Jose area and work for Solyndra?

RCP
10-08-2012, 15:25
Wish I had problems like this, in my field I'm luck to have Christmas Day off.:rofl:

Unk
10-08-2012, 15:48
Face it, she hates your guts..her policy applies to...YOU. If you were sick or God forbid died, the new account would be serviced. Curious if precedents on vacation cancellations..are vacations routinely cancelled [or re-scheduled] for the companies convenience which is not the same as a managers convenience.

You mention only able to take 3 weeks of the 5 you are entitled to..are you paid for the vacation not taken..or can you accrue earned but unused vacation to be paid [cashed out] at your option?

My experience has been that managers who preach deferred gratification seldom practice it.

'splain the facts to your daughter, then do your job for the family and set up a special Father-Daughter activity that will help her know how special she is to you.

Curious how you feel this manager usually treats you and your peers...may be over her head and under pressures of which you are unaware...someone higher in her food chain TOLD her what to do.

Best.

Bruce H
10-08-2012, 17:21
Does your bosses boss know anything about your business or is she just another management tool?

GLWyandotte
10-08-2012, 17:52
Does your bosses boss know anything about your business or is she just another management tool?

She is sharp and knows our business, but like all in her position, she literally could not do any job her subordinates do daily. I find this amazing. I can and do help my employees in every capacity and pride myself on no job being "beneath" me.

FLIPPER 348
10-08-2012, 18:36
Your boss's boss is boss. You are the only one w/ a vacation issue. Reschedule the deer hunt. Explain it to your daughter.


I hope your daughter is not seeing you pout about this.

GLWyandotte
10-08-2012, 18:50
I hope your daughter is not seeing you pout about this.

No she's not........but yours is.....:devildance:

wrenrj1
10-08-2012, 19:02
Your words: "She is attempting to pull my deer hunting vacation, which begins 11/3".

Bottom line, can she pull it? If not don't worry about it, but be aware of consequences, whether right or wrong. What do your employee policies say?

tsmo1066
10-08-2012, 19:23
All quibbling aside, a 13 year career with a company is a high price to pay for a deer hunting trip. If this boss is sticking it to you and treating you poorly, the smart move is to play along, work through the vacation and start job hunting.

Don't burn a bridge until you have another one built. You have a family and responsibilities to them. Don't gamble with their welfare and security.

KenInColorado
10-08-2012, 19:48
Do what she asks, but start your job search now. It may take you a while to find something but someone will appreciate you and your abilities. Don't hide behind "the economy" because whether employment trends are up or down, business' are hiring all the time.

As far as being too old to start over, I'm 51 and I have 2 job interviews scheduled.....

professorpinki
10-08-2012, 20:02
Sounds like an excellent time to teach your daughter that life isn't always a smooth ride; and sometimes responsibilities override desires.
There's an opportunity to learn in everything.

Also, consider what you would do in your boss's boss's position. I know I'd have done the same thing, explain the situation, and if you complained too much or in a public forum I'd replace you ASAP.

Dan_ntx
10-08-2012, 20:02
You said the magic words "proprietary software"...and I knew your vacation was cancelled. New client, proprietary software, firm deadline...you know your business, but it seems like the writing is on the wall.

Instead of fighting it you might do better canceling your vacation yourself and getting this project done...THEN take some personal time for yourself and your family. If you happen to have extra time you might want to put out a few feelers in the job market...

I know this advice sucks...but it's business, not friendness, and certainly not familyness.

true believer
10-08-2012, 20:04
what do u think?:whistling:
good thing your not going on a honeymoon!! imo..
:whistling:

BAILIFF
10-08-2012, 20:23
Forego the vacation, do the work.
Take your kid to Disney for Xmas vacation or mid-winter break.
Revenge is a dish that tastes best when cold...