Mechanics of Pmag Long Term Loaded Storage for Aluminum G.I. Mags [Archive] - Glock Talk

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vegetius
10-08-2012, 11:15
If I am wrong ... happens ... please throw me under the bus as quickly as possible ...

I have 15 30 round Pmags, loaded , ready to use as required ... I have a S_ _ T Load of aluminium G.I. 30 round mags with Magpul followers in them ...

unloaded ... because the common wisdom is long term loaded storage is a NO NO due to potential feed lip distortion due to pressure from the top cartridge against the aluminium feed lips ...

Now ... Pmags have a nifty dust cover that also depresses the top cartridge enough to relieve any pressure on the feed lips and .. Eureka ... long term loaded storage is a GO!

I was thinking ... if you load a 30 round aluminium G.I. mag to full capacity ... take a popsickle stick ... cut a piece about 3/4 inch/20 mm long ... round one end ... put a slight concave in the other end ... depress the cartridges ... push the mini pop stick round end first into the mag catch opening until you wedge a cartridge and release pressure at the top ... Eureka ... no feed lip pressure ... long term storage is a GO! ... you have to have a dust cover or the top cartridge(s) will slide out ... you store them in a carrier flat to flat side (one is upside down the other right side up) or in whatever configuration you can work out ...

If the S _ _ T is about to hit the fan depress the top cartridges and pull the Mag wedgies and the mags are ready as required ... quicker than loading them up from stripper clips ... keep your Beta C mags or Nordic exrended 48 round doubled maglinked Pmags or just a few 30 round Pmags as immediate need to shoot ammo ...

This is not as fast as popping the dust clip from the Pmag ... but it's close ... just saying ... I mean if you have alot of aluminum mags laying about ...

I did it ... it works ... am I missing something here or what?

Should I have patented my "Feed Lip Relief Mag Catch Well Wedgie" ?

Is this completely unnecessary and stupid ???

Anyone with any cogent counterpoint or concurrence please be so kind as to either tell me I am correct of show me why I should be under the Bus ...

Thanks in advance ...

Big Bird
10-08-2012, 11:38
I keep 6 loaded mags. The rest stays in the box. If things suck so bad I can't handle it with ~200 rounds of ammo and buy enough time to load some more its not going to matter anyhow. Hell, I've gone to war with less ammo for my personal weapon.

DaleGribble
10-08-2012, 11:41
Call me crazy but what kind of S--T hitting the fan are you preparing for?

15 loaded Pmags should be sufficient for anything you're going to face. If they aren't enough you did something really bad to really piss someone off and 100 loaded mags probably won't solve your problems.

Good luck.

cowboy1964
10-08-2012, 11:45
I think 15 loaded and ready to go is sufficient. Even for Afghanistan. Good grief.

Out of curiosity, what ammo is loaded in those 15 mags?

Glockdude1
10-08-2012, 11:47
I keep my mags loaded. Easy to go to the range, and a easy way to make more room in the gun safe. I can eliminate a case or 2 of loose ammo, just by loading my magazines.

:cool:

vegetius
10-08-2012, 11:54
Yes ... guilty ... my wife says I'm a hoarder ... maybe ... and if 200 rounds won't do the deed and I'm still able to pop caps I don't want to have to load mags to keep banging away ...

I tend to be OCD about this stuff ... Better to Have and Not Need then Need and Not Have ... but that's not what my question is about ...

Whether you have 2,3,4, a zillion loaded mags ... if they are G.I. Aluminum what do you think about a Mag Well Popsickle Sick Wedgie to take the pressure off the feed lips ...?

I was just thinking about duping what the Pmags do only with G..I. mags ...

Anyways have a happy Spainish Queen's Pawned Jewelery Financed Italian Discoverer of America Day ...

Veg

M&P15T
10-08-2012, 11:54
You're not going to damage your aluminum mags leaving them loaded, but then your really only need one loaded mag in your rifle.

15 is silly, and thinking you need more is.....more silly.

samuse
10-08-2012, 11:57
I have about 100 new NHMTG mags with Magpul followers loaded to 28 rounds of IMI M855.

We'll see how they hold up, but it may be many years down the road.

fuzzy03cls
10-08-2012, 12:19
I guess no one thinks of shooting with other people that need mags for their guns? like a wife, or kid, or ?

OP, Don't worry about the feed lips. Really it's mostly all BS with modern mags.

M&P15T
10-08-2012, 13:03
I guess no one thinks of shooting with other people that need mags for their guns? like a wife, or kid, or ?

OP, Don't worry about the feed lips. Really it's mostly all BS with modern mags.

Almost no one......except a few people here and on other sites like M4carbine.net & such.

If you need more than a few rounds, you're in way, waaaay over your head, and you're gonna die. Life is not a "Book of Eli" sequel.

K. Foster
10-08-2012, 14:17
Is this completely unnecessary ???

No offense but, yeah. :supergrin:
If you want to keep a bunch of mags loaded for whatever, thats fine. Load half your mags. In six months or a year, rotate to the other half. Or, just shoot those first when you go to the range.
I dont even use the dust cover on Pmags.

surf
10-08-2012, 21:23
If I am wrong... happens ... Way over thinking this one.

please throw me under the bus as quickly as possible ...OK

I did it ... it works ... am I missing something here or what?Yes

Should I have patented my "Feed Lip Relief Mag Catch Well Wedgie" ?No

Is this completely unnecessary and stupid ???Yes

Thanks in advance ...No problem.

Didn't a simple cheap way to address the pressure of a full thirty round charge on the feed lips of G.I. Aluminum mags (Mine are all late 60's early 70's manufacture ,,, OKay and such) diversify into what's the survival chance of John Q Citizen if the wheels fall off and how much ammo do you really need???

I want as much ammo pre-loaded as possible... carry in shoulder pouches or Molle vest ... I mean everybody dies ... I just want to havesomething to say about how, where and for what reason other than old age or disease ... if I have the choice and are lucky enough to be able to shoot back... I dont want to come up on empty in a fire fight

I have a Med Chest too ... blood stoppers,combat cloth ... better than paper towels...

Anyways ... my PDW is a pimped out PLR16,Red Lion fore end, Magpul angled fore end grip, Eotech, 5X magnifier on flipmount, Green laser and Weapon Light ... all sighted in dead on at 75 feet ...have a mini QD Bi-pod also ... 1st shoot load is two Pmags with Nordicextenders Maglinked together for 96 rounds of SS109 ... Beta C has 100 roundsof Malaysian hardball ... 6 30 round Pmags with SS109, 6 30 round Pmags with Federal XM193 5.56 Ball

I know everyone is groaning PLR16??? yeah it is really pimped out Well with the Eotech and Magnifier and the Min-Bi-Pod I can make shots pretty far out there there are limits due to barrel length but you dont give up too much with the 5.56 round at the same time its concealable and useful in tight spaces like cars, etc. its not a fullsize rifle and not a handgun kind of in between a little of both that was the idea I can carry Pimpy Sue with the 96 round double mag concealed under my right shoulder with the single point sling if Surprise, Surprise is needed

My ammo storage in mags is archival no rotation go to sleep for ten years then pull them out slapthem in and it better go bang, bang, bang I do not have the coin to shoot em up and recharge my ammo supplies what I have will have to do until I can get more or scavenge from the unlucky in a worst case and by some miracle I am still upright, above ground and breathing Im not delusional I may not last long but the longer I last the more I want to be able to lay down

If 200 rounds isnt enough and Im still alive I want more loaded mags instead of loading mags you get in the mix chances areyou are going to drop your empties and slap in full up and work that trigger a mag dump bag is a nice idea but under fire, hoping to stay alive, screw tryingto save that mag maybe later you can police them up but in the crucible its better to have replacements

I mean a patrol hump is what 360 rounds twelve 30 round mags plus, plus up to what you can handle and stillmove as fast as you have to in my case at 66 I better be a better shooter because I can move from cover to cover only so fast

I can still hump 360 plus in ten years who TF knows Ill still be packing my G21s (CT built inlaser sights 2nd Gen G21s)with Arredondo 17 round mags with theKorean 28 rounders for fun you know I can pack with the 28 rounders in the mag well carried in my shoulder rig with a baggy vest or field jacket and it does not print or show that is a lotof .45 gun with those sticks in them accomplished rapid trigger techniques can make a Glock Talk like a Sub Gun

God I guess I have more stuff I can use at once some will say thats my problem without even addressing my shotguns I like to think of it as options I have a lot less than most on this forum I would bet so WTF?

If I had the coin I would go Kel Tec PMR 30 .22 Win Mags in a double pistol rig with the .22 Win Mag carbine in the trunk and lotso mags light weight and with the ballistics similar to the FNH 5.7 but a hell of a lot cheaper plus 30 round mags one of their bullpup shotguns would be nice too you think ???

Well enough is enough and Iam sure I have become a bore at this point so Via Con Dios VegThere is enough kooky talk here. At least most of them are not doomsdayers wishing to discuss the apocalypse or zombie hordes. Nothing wrong with being prepared but the doomsday scenario talk quite frankly makes people look like nut jobs. Again don't get me wrong as I live in a tsunami zone and an area that is ripe for hurricanes so I believe in being prepared for self sufficiency for a period of time, but babbling about my gunz and my various totally awesome SHTF loadouts is generally a sign of a 14 year playing on gun forums or someone slightly off kilter.

Cole125
10-08-2012, 21:56
Its a free country if you want to keep 100 P mags loaded, good on you.

That said if you need to fire your rifle more than 10-20 times to defend your home, you have bigger problems to worry about.

Personally I consider my ARs fun guns, I use a shotgun and pistols for HD.

vegetius
10-08-2012, 21:59
Way over thinking this one.

OK

Yes

No

Yes

No problem.

There is enough kooky talk here. At least most of them are not doomsdayers wishing to discuss the apocalypse or zombie hordes. Nothing wrong with being prepared but the doomsday scenario talk quite frankly makes people look like nut jobs. Again don't get me wrong as I live in a tsunami zone and an area that is ripe for hurricanes so I believe in being prepared for self sufficiency for a period of time, but babbling about my gunz and my various totally awesome SHTF loadouts is generally a sign of a 14 year playing on gun forums or someone slightly off kilter.

Come on ... cut me some slack ... just having some fun and exploring the nether regions a bit ... I mean the 2nd is there for armed revolution ... not hunting ... self defense on a national scale actually ... besides we are all gun nuts to some degree ... according to the left ... and some of us gun nuts are nuts ...

I have been slightly off kilter for most of my 66 years ... probably due to the fact that the 1st drug I ever tried in 1964 when it was still legal was LSD-25 .... what a trip ... had not even tried pot ... made the whole concept of "High" a difficult context for me to judge ... how I ended up a conservative gun nut is anybody's guess ...

Just thought i would share

Veg

TangoFoxtrot
10-09-2012, 04:42
You're not going to damage your aluminum mags leaving them loaded, but then your really only need one loaded mag in your rifle.

15 is silly, and thinking you need more is.....more silly.

Your right about the mags. I'm old school I download by 2.and keep all my mags loaded.

K. Foster
10-09-2012, 07:38
I have been slightly off kilter for most of my 66 years ... probably due to the fact that the 1st drug I ever tried in 1964 when it was still legal was LSD-25 .... what a trip ... had not even tried pot ... made the whole concept of "High" a difficult context for me to judge ... how I ended up a conservative gun nut is anybody's guess ...

Just thought i would share

Veg

Thanks. Now the whole thread makes sense.:supergrin:

vegetius
10-09-2012, 08:24
Not Nice ...

There is a principle that is a proof against all arguments , a bar against all information ... guaranteed to keep a man in everlasting ignorence ... that principle is contempt prior to investigation

Read my first post ... or don't ... could care less ... but if you are interested in a possible solution to storing fully loaded 30 round Aluminum AR/M16 mags without distorting the feed lips (widen them out of Spec) due to spring pressure via the top rounds in the stack (similar to the Pmag physics) ... read my first post ...

I trust the word "physics" makes sense to you ???

Veg

vegetius
10-09-2012, 10:13
Magazine Catch Cartridge Wedge (MCCW) : Rev 1

Further experimentation resulted in what are the following revised specs for my MCCW:

1. Popsickle stick must be 10 mm wide; like the "Popsickle" brand sold in supermarkets

2. Length: 20 mm

3. Keep both ends square; slightly round the corners

4. Depress the top cartridges about 3/8 inch ... insert the
MCCW into the mag catch opening on a vertical angle to wedge it against the top of a cartridge in the stack ... and the top cartridges are loose ... no feed lip pressure

5. Use a dust cap to keep the top cartridges in the mag ... or they will slide out

This works like an OEM accessory. The wood doesn't mar the mag or cartridge and it stays in big time ... you have to depress the top cartridges to remove it from the mag catch opening ... and then you are ready to rock

It relieves the pressure on the feed lips so you can load 30 and 20 rounds into your mags and let them gather dust in the closet until you need them ... No Problemo

F.Y.I. as a duplicate of the Pmag storage physics rationale applicable to standard aluminum mags ... and it's cheap

If any one is still interested ...

Veg

Travclem
10-09-2012, 12:34
If you need more than a few rounds, you're in way, waaaay over your head, and you're gonna die.
You may be.

vegetius
10-09-2012, 13:34
You may be.

I know it seems the common knowledge is that after 5 or 6 rounds; be they rifle or pistol, and no reolution to the problem of the gun(s) that have put you in the gravest extreme, it is time to count your blessings because you are going to be killed ...

The number of rounds fired in both police and Military engagements (other than Seals, Delta, Special Forces, Ranger and Recon Marine) will boggle your mind ...

it's not how many rounds have been fired off it's how many actually hit meat and bone ... surprisingly few considering the amount of lead that usually is flying around ...

Hell ... you know you are possibly going to be killed in a gunfight ... all you can do is make sure you brought enough Gun to the table and have enough reloads so if you are still upright, above ground , breathing and not seriously damaged after the first or second or third exchange of fire ... you won't come up dry and out of ammo ... not a good thing ... Friend of mine was a tunnel rat ... one time he ran out of rounds for his .45 and had to throw the gun at the VC trying to kill him ... you do not want to be reduced to throwing your gun at your assailant(s) ... he backed the hell out of there and got away ... he was lucky ... you think??

I have had people try to kill me in the States and overseas and they were unsuccessful and I survived due mostly to luck ...

Better to be lucky than good ...

Carry as you see fit ... if it's worth packing it is worth carrying reloads ..

Veg

NeverMore1701
10-09-2012, 13:49
This thread is great!

mikechine
10-09-2012, 15:08
Orange or fudge?

And, I can't believe nobody has asked since you probably have solved the big question obviously and moved on to other things...

Colt or BCM?

MarkCO
10-09-2012, 15:56
Don't keep those PMags loaded! Aluminum and Stainless mags are fine, but the PMags will eventually roll the lips out and double feed or puke the whole 30. Sure, it takes a year or so fully loaded to deform them, but...

Oils and other petrochemicals may also cause crazing or creep of PMags.

NeverMore1701
10-09-2012, 16:06
Don't keep those PMags loaded! Aluminum and Stainless mags are fine, but the PMags will eventually roll the lips out and double feed or puke the whole 30. Sure, it takes a year or so fully loaded to deform them, but...

Oils and other petrochemicals may also cause crazing or creep of PMags.

My 2 year loaded PMags would beg to differ.

MarkCO
10-09-2012, 16:10
My 2 year loaded PMags would beg to differ.

That is fine, just hope you don't need them.

NeverMore1701
10-09-2012, 16:14
Been fine so far.

MarkCO
10-09-2012, 16:48
For those with an interest in reality about polymer creep, here is a short explanation:

http://www.eng-tips.com/faqs.cfm?fid=950

Arvinator
10-09-2012, 17:24
I am no expert, but I have some experience in loaded mags. In 2001, I loaded up 5 alum. 30 round mags with 25 rounds each and left them loaded for 10 years. When I go them out and shot them, I had one seperated at the edge, but they still worked fine.
My 30 round Pmags are each loaded with 25 rounds, and have the little lip cap on them. So far the ones I've had loaded since March 2010 are still running just fine. I keep a 20 round mag loaded with 15 rounds in the weapon, so that is the only one exposed to oil/lubricant.
This may not answer your question, but it is what I do. How many do I keep loaded? Alot. I am a cop with 14 co-workers and we are all issued a M-16A1 and when at the range training, or on a call involving a manhunt I have mags to hand out if needed.

pag23
10-09-2012, 17:52
Way over thinking this one.


There is enough kooky talk here. At least most of them are not doomsdayers wishing to discuss the apocalypse or zombie hordes. Nothing wrong with being prepared but the doomsday scenario talk quite frankly makes people look like nut jobs. Again don't get me wrong as I live in a tsunami zone and an area that is ripe for hurricanes so I believe in being prepared for self sufficiency for a period of time, but babbling about my gunz and my various totally awesome SHTF loadouts is generally a sign of a 14 year playing on gun forums or someone slightly off kilter.

ding ding! we have a winner! :supergrin:

Anyway, I keep 3-5 Pmags loaded with no issues.

DaleGribble
10-09-2012, 18:33
For those with an interest in reality about polymer creep, here is a short explanation:

http://www.eng-tips.com/faqs.cfm?fid=950

Question for ya...

Having read that link, it seems that creep is load dependant. So when Magpul designed the Pmags did they factor in the load/pressure of 30 rounds when determining the acceptable thickness of the feed lips?

I've seen pics of bad Pmags but I was under the impression Magpul fixed the problem.

MarkCO
10-09-2012, 19:00
Question for ya...

Having read that link, it seems that creep is load dependant. So when Magpul designed the Pmags did they factor in the load/pressure of 30 rounds when determining the acceptable thickness of the feed lips?

I've seen pics of bad Pmags but I was under the impression Magpul fixed the problem.

Load does affect creep. As does processing, temperature and humidity. I can't tell you MagPul's design process, but I do know the results of the tests I ran. At 2 years, the failure rate passed 2 sigma for the test conditions. I get paid good money to do these kinds of tests and the client is satisifed with my results and credentials, so choose to ignore or listen, readers choice.

I have a BUNCH of PMags, and they are great. However, my mags I keep loaded long term are teflon coated metal mags with quailty springs and followers. If you have one or two loaded mags, they HAVE to work if you need them. If you have say 10 loaded PMags and want to bet on a feed vs. a double feed IF you need it, again, pick what you feel comfortable with, but the key word is "feel".

I've seen damaged PMags and damaged metal mags. If I were going in and out of houses and cars and such, I would only use PMags...they are MUCH more resistant to damage. OTOH, a mag that sits for years, the trade off goes to the metal mag. If you wanted to keep a PMag loaded, I would use a sharpie and put a date on it and rotate it to range or practice use after a year. $14 a year for a new mag...that is nothing in the scheme of things.

MarkCO
10-09-2012, 19:10
BTW, I have some Lancer AWM mags under current testing and they look promising.

Drilled
10-09-2012, 19:29
I found two 30 round mags loaded in the bottom of an empty ammo can that had been in there at least 5 years and took them to the range and had 1 FTF.

For whatever it is worth they were in a dry safe in the firearms room.

TangoFoxtrot
10-10-2012, 04:19
I keep all my GI and P-mags loaded at 28 rounds and in a cool dry storage and they run just fine. Some GI mags I have were loaded for years and when used worked fine. I'm sure the P-Mags will too.

fuzzy03cls
10-10-2012, 08:03
I have a few GI mags loaded full since 09. They look fine to me. I have some loaded full pmags with the dust covers on them also loaded since 09. Again fine.

Downloading by 5? That's just silly.