Budget Reflex Sight on the Hurricane Zombie SBR [Archive] - Glock Talk

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doc540
10-09-2012, 15:42
gonna try this Sightmark Digital unit instead of the Primary Arms microdot

both are about the same price

looking to get MrsDoc a .22 target pistol and mount the microdot for her

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/doc540/Guns/AR15/SBRSightMark1.jpg

WoodenPlank
10-09-2012, 16:58
So, you spend the money on an SBR, along with all the time and effort, and say it's for "hurricane/zombie" use....

then top it off with an optic that cost less than the tax stamp?



:dunno:

jeepinbandit
10-09-2012, 17:00
Nice rifle. the optic looks like it's mounted backwards though.

doc540
10-09-2012, 17:01
So, you spend the money on an SBR, along with all the time and effort, and say it's for "hurricane/zombie" use....

then top it off with an optic that cost less than the tax stamp?



:dunno:

1. no one knows what time or effort I've spent on the SBR

2. all four of my $100 optics have worked just fine for years

doc540
10-09-2012, 17:02
Nice rifle. the optic looks like it's mounted backwards though.

Thanks

It was made in southern Louisiana. :rofl:

NeverMore1701
10-09-2012, 17:03
Wow. Just... wow.

doc540
10-09-2012, 17:27
Wow. Just... wow.

Thanks

I say the same thing every time I shoot it at 100yds.

Amazing little gun...LOUD little gun, but amazing. :)

gotta give a shout out to Primary Arms, too

their microdot is a great optic for the money
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/doc540/Guns/AR15/SBR1.jpg

Trey83
10-09-2012, 17:31
I've never heard of that optic before but it looks like a nice little rifle otherwise. What are the specs on the build?

doc540
10-09-2012, 17:35
I've never heard of that optic before but it looks like a nice little rifle otherwise. What are the specs on the build?

thanks, but it's nothing special

It's just a Sabre Defence "Pre-ATF Raid" model. :whistling:

Had a friend who worked for MagPul so I got a handful of their stuff and mounted it up.

That's about it.

Local cop had two of them, and, you know the story: wife said "No more guns till you sell something".

So, I took it off his hands for not a lot of cash.

Trey83
10-09-2012, 18:06
thanks, but it's nothing special

It's just a Sabre Defence "Pre-ATF Raid" model. :whistling:

Had a friend who worked for MagPul so I got a handful of their stuff and mounted it up.

That's about it.

Local cop had two of them, and, you know the story: wife said "No more guns till you sell something".

So, I took it off his hands for not a lot of cash.
Nice :rofl:

Cole125
10-09-2012, 19:45
So, you spend the money on an SBR, along with all the time and effort, and say it's for "hurricane/zombie" use....

then top it off with an optic that cost less than the tax stamp?



:dunno:

My thoughts exactly. :faint:

OP just run irons until you save up for a Aimpoint Pro or Trijicon reflex.

Cheap optics will fail you when you need them the most.

doc540
10-09-2012, 20:01
My thoughts exactly. :faint:

OP just run irons until you save up for a Aimpoint Pro or Trijicon reflex.

Cheap optics will fail you when you need them the most.

I've shot $100 optics for years without a single failure.

And with my eyesight I can't see irons.

But, I hear where you're coming from, brah.:wavey:

MadMonkey
10-09-2012, 20:08
Cheap AND expensive optics will both fail.

NeverMore1701
10-09-2012, 20:09
Cheap AND expensive optics will both fail.

No doubt.


Wonder which category fails more often?

doc540
10-09-2012, 20:10
Cheap AND expensive optics will both fail.

I'm old and half blind, so that's why I just lay down suppressing fire. :cool:

WoodenPlank
10-09-2012, 20:12
Cheap AND expensive optics will both fail.

No doubt.


Wonder which category fails more often?


Exactly. You get what you pay for.

doc540
10-09-2012, 20:13
No doubt.


Wonder which category fails more often?

Today's $100 optic ain't necessarily the same as cheap Chino digifails from ten years ago.

Again, I've used three or four PA red dots and have never had one fail.

Call me Mr. Lucky. :cool:

And I've actually gotten more than I've paid for because several weren't bought new.

MadMonkey
10-10-2012, 05:04
No doubt.


Wonder which category fails more often?

Who knows? I haven't had any optics fail yet... :wavey:

Higher price doesn't necessarily mean higher quality, though I don't have a problem buying higher-dollar optics (mainly for Aimpoint's battery life).

I'd like to see actual stats rather than anecdotal evidence. We can all give examples of all types of optics failing or lasting based on our own experience or internet hearsay.

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 06:44
Even the PA mini dots have a 1000 hour battery life. That's something like 40 days of constant on mode.

For most folks in the world that's plenty. I wouldn't mind having a real T-1 just for the battery life of the unit and will probably have one eventually but my PA mini dot gets the job done and has for thousands of rounds.

SigFTW
10-10-2012, 09:07
Awesome AR!! I also use PA, great red dot and service and they are local. :thumbsup:

What sold me on their product was when the rep slammed the red dot on the table many times and then remounted and it was still holding 0. :wow:

mjkeat
10-10-2012, 09:28
Who knows? I haven't had any optics fail yet... :wavey:

Higher price doesn't necessarily mean higher quality, though I don't have a problem buying higher-dollar optics (mainly for Aimpoint's battery life).

I'd like to see actual stats rather than anecdotal evidence. We can all give examples of all types of optics failing or lasting based on our own experience or internet hearsay.

It most certainly does. There's a point of diminishing return but there is a night in day difference in say an H1/T1 and the Primary Arms micro or that backwards EoTech clone. Even Marshall from PA will admit this. I will say I run 2 PA Micros on lower use rifles and like them.

You'll never see "actual stats" because there is a stark difference in end user. You won't see an 11B topping off his M4 w/ a Benchmark RDS. There's a reason. Just like the people who say there isn't a difference will likely never pass the threashold that seperates good and bad.

That's why it's nice there are varying levels of quality. I really didn't want to spend $600 on a H1 for my .22 AR. The PA gets me close enough to not alter muscle memory.

doc540
10-10-2012, 15:48
that's a fair and honest assessment

I'm not in the military and neither am I in law enforcement.

The SBR gets shot maybe once a month.

I keep the batteries fresh, and I get my money's worth.

MadMonkey
10-10-2012, 16:04
It most certainly does.

Really? Higher price = better regardless of materials used, workmanship? :faint:

mjkeat
10-10-2012, 19:39
Really? Higher price = better regardless of materials used, workmanship? :faint:

Give me examples and explain how. Since I'm an Aimpoint micro fan give me an example of a better micro at a less expensive price than the H1.

Cole125
10-10-2012, 19:54
I'm not in the military and neither am I in law enforcement.

Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.

doc540
10-10-2012, 19:57
Give me examples and explain how. Since I'm an Aimpoint micro fan give me an example of a better micro at a less expensive price than the H1.

Sure enough can't say it's "better", but the PA micro (when you can find one) runs about $80-$90, dramatically less then an H1.

What more could one want from a sight that's accurate, dependable, rugged, and does exactly what is was designed to do and keeps doing it for years?

And does it for about 1/5th the cost?

Look, if I was in combat or a LEO, I'd be paying five to ten times more than what I'm paying now for an civilian, occasional-use optic.

Apples and oranges

Good sight, decent price, performs well - I'm good with that.

doc540
10-10-2012, 19:59
Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.

I'll keep repeating it, but I doubt it matters:

I've owned multiple PA optics and used them for multiple years.

Never cried once - never had a problem with their products.

jeepinbandit
10-10-2012, 20:11
Personally I like having optics/rifles as good or better than what military and LE use.

By once, cry once.


I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.

NeverMore1701
10-10-2012, 20:13
I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.

I'll trade ya a PA optic of your choice straight up for that ACOG, and pay shipping both ways :whistling:


:supergrin:

mjkeat
10-11-2012, 08:07
Sure enough can't say it's "better", but the PA micro (when you can find one) runs about $80-$90, dramatically less then an H1.

What more could one want from a sight that's accurate, dependable, rugged, and does exactly what is was designed to do and keeps doing it for years?

And does it for about 1/5th the cost?

Look, if I was in combat or a LEO, I'd be paying five to ten times more than what I'm paying now for an civilian, occasional-use optic.

Apples and oranges

Good sight, decent price, performs well - I'm good with that.

Have you ran an Aimpoint such as the H1/T1 for any length of time? There's no comparison.

doc540
10-11-2012, 08:14
Have you ran an Aimpoint such as the H1/T1 for any length of time? There's no comparison.

I have not.

But, I'm interested to learn what an extra $400-$500 gets me for civilian/hobbyist use.

mjkeat
10-11-2012, 09:24
I have not.

But, I'm interested to learn what an extra $400-$500 gets me for civilian/hobbyist use.

This is the problem. We probably shouldn't make judgment in cases like this if we have nothing to go off of.

The difference, as I stated before, is obvious at a glance. Once in hand the differences grow. Once on a rifle it's night and day. I like the PA Micro. I think it's the best of the inexpensive optics. I own 2. It is not, as other cheap optics, a replacement, just as good as, or equal to what it is mimicking.

In the world of optics, RDS more specifically you get what you pay for. I've tried them all looking for the cheap way out.

jeepinbandit
10-11-2012, 10:03
I'll trade ya a PA optic of your choice straight up for that ACOG, and pay shipping both ways :whistling:


:supergrin:

My Uncle Sam usually doesn't take well to people stealing his ****. The last guy I know that did it (A Gunny in the S-4 shop) got hauled off by NCIS and last I heard is spending a few years in Kansas. Guess he used to run the Armory at his last command and was squirreling away every part he could short of the lower receivers and selling them:rofl:

doc540
10-11-2012, 10:44
This is the problem. We probably shouldn't make judgment in cases like this if we have nothing to go off of.

The difference, as I stated before, is obvious at a glance. Once in hand the differences grow. Once on a rifle it's night and day. I like the PA Micro. I think it's the best of the inexpensive optics. I own 2. It is not, as other cheap optics, a replacement, just as good as, or equal to what it is mimicking.

In the world of optics, RDS more specifically you get what you pay for. I've tried them all looking for the cheap way out.

Seriously, I'm not doubting you. I'd like to know the specifics of what's obvious at a glance and like night and day between them.

mjkeat
10-11-2012, 21:19
Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you :)

Snaps
10-11-2012, 23:44
Nice rifle. the optic looks like it's mounted backwards though.

really does look like a backward eothinggy.

Good to see though, I'm looking for some cheaper sights for a couple low priced builds I've stuck together from parts. I normally stick with primary arms but I'll look into this one.

M&P15T
10-12-2012, 06:01
Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you :)

Can you describe how the actual optical parts differ? Is the glass and reticle/dot on the PA as crisp and clear as on the Aimpoint? Do they both have the same adjustments?

mjkeat
10-12-2012, 10:02
Can you describe how the actual optical parts differ? Is the glass and reticle/dot on the PA as crisp and clear as on the Aimpoint? Do they both have the same adjustments?

See below.

Construction, materials, craftsmanship, workmanship, solid. Like slamming the door on a Yugo then a BMW, you know which is quality. There's also a psychological difference when you know your gear can out hustle you :)

M&P15T
10-12-2012, 10:39
See below.

Can you please answer my specific questions?

Is the glass as clear and bright? Is the dot as crisp and clear? Are the optic adjustments similar?

I'm not asking about build quality, I want to know how it actually works for a human being with eyes.

fnfalman
10-12-2012, 10:47
You won't see an 11B topping off his M4 w/ a Benchmark RDS. There's a reason. .

Yeah, it's called GI - General Issued. You get what you're issued.

mjkeat
10-12-2012, 12:02
Yeah, it's called GI - General Issued. You get what you're issued.

Very true. How about the guys who are working for the same .mil yet can pick what gear they use? More often than not you'll see the same optics on their weapon systems. That speaks volumes to me.

mjkeat
10-12-2012, 12:03
Can you please answer my specific questions?

Is the glass as clear and bright? Is the dot as crisp and clear? Are the optic adjustments similar?

I'm not asking about build quality, I want to know how it actually works for a human being with eyes.

How old were you when your mom finally stopped breast feeding? The info you are looking for has already been stated.

M&P15T
10-12-2012, 13:06
How old were you when your mom finally stopped breast feeding? The info you are looking for has already been stated.

How old were you when you flinked out of Logic 101?

You're weird dude, this is the second time you and I have done this run-around. You answer someone elses question in a general fashion. I subsequently ask a TOTALLY DIFFERENT question, and for some bizzare reason you think your previous answer to someone else's totally different question, answers mine.

WTF is wrong with you, can you not answer a simple couple of SPECIFIC questions?

Once again; How does the actual optical glass compare? How does the reticle/dot look between the two? Is the glass as clear? Is the reticle/dot as crisp?

If you answer that you've already answered these questions, you're a ****ing retard.

AK_Stick
10-12-2012, 14:34
I get issued an ACOG on my A4 rifle. I work on aircraft. That sight will never see more than dust and neglect. My rifle would probably be 100 percent fine with a lower cost optic or no optic at all.



When things are going correctly.


Didn't we just have a Marine CO of a Harrier company die a few weeks ago in a gunfight?


You may just be an aircraft mechanic, but that doesn't mean your rifle will never see action.

jeepinbandit
10-12-2012, 14:36
The PA micro I have has a very crisp and clear dot. The glass has a bluish tint to it but it's not that noticeable. It's as clear as looking though two pieces of glass gets.

jeepinbandit
10-12-2012, 14:40
When things are going correctly.


Didn't we just have a Marine CO of a Harrier company die a few weeks ago in a gunfight?


You may just be an aircraft mechanic, but that doesn't mean your rifle will never see action.

Yup the CO and one of the Sergeants as well as all of their aircraft.

There's no telling how much money we spent getting all those optics on there and for the average Aviation Marine they aren't needed. The carry handle would work just fine and save a slim amount of weight. Hell we're getting Marines out of boot camp now that haven't even shot with iron sights now.

IIRC we pay about 5 or 600 dollars per RCO. Not sure how many we have no but I can't remember the last time I saw iron sights on the rifle range. Probably 08 or 09 time frame.

AK_Stick
10-12-2012, 14:45
Yeah, the carry handle would work just fine, right up till you actually have to get in a gunfight.

Just because you're an aircraft mechanic, doesn't mean you will never go outside the wire, or the danger will not come in.

There are a lot of non 0311's who've gone out of the wire, and put rounds down range. I even know an air-winger or two who's been part of aircraft recovery operations.

M&P15T
10-12-2012, 14:45
The PA micro I have has a very crisp and clear dot. The glass has a bluish tint to it but it's not that noticeable. It's as clear as looking though two pieces of glass gets.

Thank you.

I did find a Youtube video directly comparing the PA and the H1/T1. Said exactly the same thing.

One point was that the Aimpoints came in either a 4MOA or 2 MOA dot, and the PA came with a 3MOA dot.

Seems like if you're not jumping out of planes over Afghanistan, one would serve it's function perfectly well.

M&P15T
10-12-2012, 14:46
Yup the CO and one of the Sergeants as well as all of their aircraft.

There's no telling how much money we spent getting all those optics on there and for the average Aviation Marine they aren't needed. The carry handle would work just fine and save a slim amount of weight. Hell we're getting Marines out of boot camp now that haven't even shot with iron sights now.

IIRC we pay about 5 or 600 dollars per RCO. Not sure how many we have no but I can't remember the last time I saw iron sights on the rifle range. Probably 08 or 09 time frame.

It's heartening to hear our folks are getting the good stuff as standard.

jeepinbandit
10-12-2012, 15:08
Yeah, the carry handle would work just fine, right up till you actually have to get in a gunfight.

Just because you're an aircraft mechanic, doesn't mean you will never go outside the wire, or the danger will not come in.

There are a lot of non 0311's who've gone out of the wire, and put rounds down range. I even know an air-winger or two who's been part of aircraft recovery operations.

Going out to fix downed helicopters is a common occurrence lol. They actually just had to go out to the Arizona Desert the other night with a maintenance crew to fix a Cobra that had to land out there due to a tail rotor problem.

I understand everything you are saying and get it but at the same time how many of those aircraft mechanics actually return fire or come under fire that isn't IDF?

It's pretty rare. I'm all for whatever they want to give us I'm just saying it's not really necessary for everyone to have a 600 dollar optic on top of their rifle. I put down the same argument for camoflauge uniforms when the subject comes up.

Edit- I could also see the argument that it's a supply issue. Everyone having the same optic, (though we use two different RCOs between the A4s and M4s and it's common to be issued a rifle with the wrong one) simplifies the supply chain.

matt_lowry123
10-12-2012, 15:28
Nice sbr.

This is just me, but I'd put a can and an aim point on it. Hell, I'd ditch the whole 5.56 upper and keep it in the safe and get a 300 blackout upper. You already have the registered part. 300 blackout for fun and 5.56 for shooting cheap.

AK_Stick
10-12-2012, 15:43
Going out to fix downed helicopters is a common occurrence lol. They actually just had to go out to the Arizona Desert the other night with a maintenance crew to fix a Cobra that had to land out there due to a tail rotor problem.

I understand everything you are saying and get it but at the same time how many of those aircraft mechanics actually return fire or come under fire that isn't IDF?

It's pretty rare. I'm all for whatever they want to give us I'm just saying it's not really necessary for everyone to have a 600 dollar optic on top of their rifle. I put down the same argument for camoflauge uniforms when the subject comes up.




And what I'm telling you, is that its a poor argument.

DART teams, in country, have come in contact, fairly regularly. Generally speaking, contact, is the reason we went out to fix the bird in the first place.

In 05/06 our DART and Crash Recovery assets were coming under fire quite a bit, either on station, or enroute to the aircraft. We were issued M-16A2's instead of the M-4s the flight crews got, because we didn't need anything more. The mechanics aren't getting shot at, why did they need Acogs and red dots etc.



Just because you're inside the wire today, and have a job that doesn't require front line service, does not mean you won't have a need for your rifle, and good optics tomorrow.


But I might just be biased. I was the guy in the dirt in 06 with an A2, now I'm the platoon sgt making sure his guys get the Acogs.

fnfalman
10-12-2012, 16:02
But I might just be biased. I was the guy in the dirt in 06 with an A2, now I'm the platoon sgt making sure his guys get the Acogs.

ACOGs are not reflex sights. They are short scopes. Sure, some of them have the built-in mini red dots as backup or whatever, but ACOGs are not red dots by nature but actual telescopic sights.

fnfalman
10-12-2012, 16:03
Very true. How about the guys who are working for the same .mil yet can pick what gear they use? More often than not you'll see the same optics on their weapon systems. That speaks volumes to me.

Which guys and which gears? Every time you see an M4 of some sort from the snake eaters, they either have an ACOG or an Aimpoint or an EOTech.

So, which spec op expert's gear configuration should I follow?

AK_Stick
10-12-2012, 16:16
ACOGs are not reflex sights. They are short scopes. Sure, some of them have the built-in mini red dots as backup or whatever, but ACOGs are not red dots by nature but actual telescopic sights.



Uh, I understand this.

Has nothing to do with what Jeepinbandit and I were talking about.


I was specifically addressing his statement, that as a aircraft mechanic in the Marines, he'd be just as well off with a low budget reflex, or iron sights, as an ACOG.

jeepinbandit
10-12-2012, 16:41
I'm generally agreeing with ya.

fnfalman
10-12-2012, 19:59
I was specifically addressing his statement, that as a aircraft mechanic in the Marines, he'd be just as well off with a low budget reflex, or iron sights, as an ACOG.

As an aircraft mechanic in the Marines, he'd get what Uncle Sam's Misguided Children issues to him, be it an ACOG, Elcan or whatever the Gyrines use. He wouldn't get the chance to put a Primary Arms or NCStar on his rifle.

doc540
10-12-2012, 20:02
I drive used BMW's so now I'm looking for a used H1.

onebigelf
10-12-2012, 20:25
Is Primary Arms having a problem? Went to order a couple of Micro Dots and they are out of stock on ALL of their own sights.

???WTF???

John

doc540
10-12-2012, 20:28
Is Primary Arms having a problem? Went to order a couple of Micro Dots and they are out of stock on ALL of their own sights.

???WTF???

John

Popular products.

They've been sold out of stock for 6 months now.

Bought my last one used off the net.

mjkeat
10-12-2012, 21:48
How old were you when you flinked out of Logic 101?

You're weird dude, this is the second time you and I have done this run-around. You answer someone elses question in a general fashion. I subsequently ask a TOTALLY DIFFERENT question, and for some bizzare reason you think your previous answer to someone else's totally different question, answers mine.

WTF is wrong with you, can you not answer a simple couple of SPECIFIC questions?

Once again; How does the actual optical glass compare? How does the reticle/dot look between the two? Is the glass as clear? Is the reticle/dot as crisp?

If you answer that you've already answered these questions, you're a ****ing retard.

You're correct. I should have been more direct w/ my answer.

If one uses better materials assembled by more qualified individuals what do you think the end product will be? Worse? Better?

Which guys and which gears? Every time you see an M4 of some sort from the snake eaters, they either have an ACOG or an Aimpoint or an EOTech.

So, which spec op expert's gear configuration should I follow?

My point exactly.

AK_Stick
10-12-2012, 22:08
As an aircraft mechanic in the Marines, he'd get what Uncle Sam's Misguided Children issues to him, be it an ACOG, Elcan or whatever the Gyrines use. He wouldn't get the chance to put a Primary Arms or NCStar on his rifle.

:rofl:


Are you just going around trolling my posts?


Go back and READ what we were talking about. Stop trying to pick apart a single post, without figuring out what we were talking about.

fnfalman
10-13-2012, 15:08
:rofl:


Are you just going around trolling my posts?


Go back and READ what we were talking about. Stop trying to pick apart a single post, without figuring out what we were talking about.

I know what you're talking about. The problem is that you and a host of others can't seem to separate combat equipment versus civilian usage.

doc540
10-13-2012, 17:09
Well put

"separate combat equipment from civilian usage"

In my particular case, "civilian usage" actually translates to "might shoot every two or three months".

mjkeat
10-13-2012, 17:48
Well put

"separate combat equipment from civilian usage"

In my particular case, "civilian usage" actually translates to "might shoot every two or three months".

Nothing wrong w/ only getting out 4-6 times a month but some may shoot once a week and seek instruction 1-2 times or more a month in addition.

Good equipment is still good equipment and worth saving for or streemlining other "hobbies".

Gear doesn't make the shooter but it can help. I also feel that talent can overcome bad gear. I'd rather have good gear and talent. Working on both.

mjkeat
10-13-2012, 17:49
I know what you're talking about. The problem is that you and a host of others can't seem to separate combat equipment versus civilian usage.

Explain...

AK_Stick
10-13-2012, 18:31
I know what you're talking about. The problem is that you and a host of others can't seem to separate combat equipment versus civilian usage.


I'm unsure at this point, if you actually trolling my posts, or if you really are handicapped.


If you had taken the time to read what Jeepin and I were talking about, you'd have realized we were on a side-bar from the original topic, specifically talking about combat equipment.



However, it would appear, that you either failed to go back and read the post I referenced, or you've repeatedly failed to understand what I said.

faawrenchbndr
10-13-2012, 18:34
I'm unsure at this point, if you actually trolling my posts, or if you really are handicapped.




Nope,.......he's a straight up troll!

fnfalman
10-13-2012, 22:47
I'm unsure at this point, if you actually trolling my posts, or if you really are handicapped.


If you had taken the time to read what Jeepin and I were talking about, you'd have realized we were on a side-bar from the original topic, specifically talking about combat equipment.



However, it would appear, that you either failed to go back and read the post I referenced, or you've repeatedly failed to understand what I said.

If you were to want to have sidebar conversation then use PM. You posted in a public thread, so expect rebuttals.

fnfalman
10-13-2012, 22:48
Nope,.......he's a straight up troll!

Better a troll than a ball washer/Kool-Aid drinker.

You combat/tactical/custom gun types make me laugh because you take yourselves so seriously and annoint yourselves as some sort of experts in all things shootings & combat.

Don't want me to troll? Easy. Don't post ludicrous replies to simple questions.

AK_Stick
10-13-2012, 22:59
Actually, I think we just wanted you on topic.


I really don't think anyone in here minds a rebuttal when you're on topic. But when you come in and flame someone, and your "rebuttal" has nothing to do with the statements being made, it just makes you look stupid.

MeanAction
10-13-2012, 23:01
I have the next model up SightMark with the 4 reticle dial and then the intensity dial is just forward of the quick release on me Ak. It seems like a solid piece.

fnfalman
10-14-2012, 00:11
Explain...

What's to explain?

Military service does not equal to civilian usage. Do I have to draw up a PhD level thesis to explain it?

fnfalman
10-14-2012, 00:14
Actually, I think we just wanted you on topic.


I really don't think anyone in here minds a rebuttal when you're on topic. But when you come in and flame someone, and your "rebuttal" has nothing to do with the statements being made, it just makes you look stupid.

Then let's get on the topic. The man talks about cheap optics for his goof-off gun. He doesn't talk about having optics to fight against Blue Helmets, biker gangs, MS-13 or to hunt Charlie/Haji.

Every time somebody asks about cheap optics or cheap guns for fooling around, you lot of people have to chime in about "serious use" and "military fighting experience" and "high speed low drag" and "professional training".

AK_Stick
10-14-2012, 00:32
I'm sorry, I didn't realize I needed your permission to post, or comment on other peoples posts.



I'll try to remember to check with you in the future.

:rofl:




Did one of your 20 yr olds dump you or something? You seem to be on quite the kick trying to stay relevant here.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 02:40
I'm sorry, I didn't realize I needed your permission to post, or comment on other peoples posts.

I'll try to remember to check with you in the future.

Did one of your 20 yr olds dump you or something? You seem to be on quite the kick trying to stay relevant here.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and suggest it's probably not about trying to stay relevant. It's more about sheer frustration, and trying to deal with you, MKjeat, and a few other folks that simply ruin this sub-forum. There are probably tens of thousands of members here on GT, and about 10 or so actively post in this sub-forum. Many come here to discuss their interest in ARs, get smacked around by you and a few others here, then leave and post about their ARs in the General Firearms forum.....or just lose their interest altogether.

Might want to think about that........process that information a bit.

Then add in the fact that Eric has threatened to shut this forum down a few times over the general atmosphere here.

I find the level of uber-ninja, super cerealness laughable. Just a few posters in the forum dominate and ruin it, because you can't mentally and emotionally process the concept of shooting ARs for fun and recreation. It's like all you have in your life is your AR, and you're going to pound on the the other 99% that aren't over-the-top AR "drivers" like yourself.

No, the true trolls in the BRF are you, Mkjeat, and a few other hard-core AR "operators" that take a simple and pleasureable topic to discuss, and completely ruin it. It's like your AR is the only positive in your life, and your fragile ego is forcing you to rage post whenever anyone doesn't take the topic as seriously as you do. It's completely obvious (and sad) to everyone that comes here and tries to share experiences, who then leave in frustration......completely obvious to everyone but you, Mkjeat, and a few others.

Let it go. Since you're completely unable to post in any other manner than as a condescending and rude, uber-tactical-ninja-AR Operator, no one gives a **** about what you think or know....

This forum would be waaaaay better without you, the keatster, and a few others around. Ya'll should try M4Carbine, or some other such Uber-ninja place, you'd fit in quite nicely. Just go away, let the rest of us discuss ARs in the manner that the vast majority actually use them......for fun and recreation. We're all tired of the over-the-top Delta-Seal-Ranger crapola, we'd like one place to discuss ARs that doesn't have the "tactical psyche ward" atmosphere.

O.k.......so the OP bought a cheap but useable optic......good for you OP!!! Give us a range report when you can.

mjkeat
10-14-2012, 09:02
What's to explain?

Military service does not equal to civilian usage. Do I have to draw up a PhD level thesis to explain it?

It doesn't? I use things learned during my time at Drum daily. Hell, throughout the day every day.

Lately I've edited a few posts after posting them (trying to be a little nicer) but I doubt you are capable of drawing up a PhD level thesis. Prove me wrong;) I'd like to read it.

Then let's get on the topic. The man talks about cheap optics for his goof-off gun. He doesn't talk about having optics to fight against Blue Helmets, biker gangs, MS-13 or to hunt Charlie/Haji.

Every time somebody asks about cheap optics or cheap guns for fooling around, you lot of people have to chime in about "serious use" and "military fighting experience" and "high speed low drag" and "professional training".

Goof-off gun, guns for fooling around? Says a lot. I've never met a tool capable of taking life that wasn't a serious matter. Good thing you live alone, huh.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and suggest it's probably not about trying to stay relevant. It's more about sheer frustration, and trying to deal with you, MKjeat, and a few other folks that simply ruin this sub-forum. There are probably tens of thousands of members here on GT, and about 10 or so actively post in this sub-forum. Many come here to discuss their interest in ARs, get smacked around by you and a few others here, then leave and post about their ARs in the General Firearms forum.....or just lose their interest altogether.

Might want to think about that........process that information a bit.

Then add in the fact that Eric has threatened to shut this forum down a few times over the general atmosphere here.

I find the level of uber-ninja, super cerealness laughable. Just a few posters in the forum dominate and ruin it, because you can't mentally and emotionally process the concept of shooting ARs for fun and recreation. It's like all you have in your life is your AR, and you're going to pound on the the other 99% that aren't over-the-top AR "drivers" like yourself.

No, the true trolls in the BRF are you, Mkjeat, and a few other hard-core AR "operators" that take a simple and pleasureable topic to discuss, and completely ruin it. It's like your AR is the only positive in your life, and your fragile ego is forcing you to rage post whenever anyone doesn't take the topic as seriously as you do. It's completely obvious (and sad) to everyone that comes here and tries to share experiences, who then leave in frustration......completely obvious to everyone but you, Mkjeat, and a few others.

Let it go. Since you're completely unable to post in any other manner than as a condescending and rude, uber-tactical-ninja-AR Operator, no one gives a **** about what you think or know....

This forum would be waaaaay better without you, the keatster, and a few others around. Ya'll should try M4Carbine, or some other such Uber-ninja place, you'd fit in quite nicely. Just go away, let the rest of us discuss ARs in the manner that the vast majority actually use them......for fun and recreation. We're all tired of the over-the-top Delta-Seal-Ranger crapola, we'd like one place to discuss ARs that doesn't have the "tactical psyche ward" atmosphere.

O.k.......so the OP bought a cheap but useable optic......good for you OP!!! Give us a range report when you can.

Translation - This forum would be waaaaay better if I were able to live in my fantasy world w/o the interruption of factual information.

I find it hilarious that people, especially you, would turn down extremely helpful information that would improve your shooting. Take notice of the ones resistant and those who except advise. It's in every aspect of life. Usually the ones that rise to the top are excepting while those who resist are left behind and remain stagnant.

You talk about others processing information yet you have to be spoon fed.

They don't need to shut the sub-forum down. They need to get rid of the posters who repeatedly put out bad information. It's misleading and a detriment to the forum as a whole. If you want to point fingers, grab your buddy FAL and find a mirror.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 14:12
Translation - This forum would be waaaaay better if I were able to live in my fantasy world w/o the interruption of factual information.

I find it hilarious that people, especially you, would turn down extremely helpful information that would improve your shooting. Take notice of the ones resistant and those who except advise. It's in every aspect of life. Usually the ones that rise to the top are excepting while those who resist are left behind and remain stagnant.

You talk about others processing information yet you have to be spoon fed.

They don't need to shut the sub-forum down. They need to get rid of the posters who repeatedly put out bad information. It's misleading and a detriment to the forum as a whole. If you want to point fingers, grab your buddy FAL and find a mirror.

Are you still here?

GTFO.

mjkeat
10-14-2012, 14:55
Are you still here?

GTFO.

Can't deny what I said can you?

I'd like to see you shoot ;)

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 15:34
Can't deny what I said can you?

I'd like to see you shoot ;)

What you said, is that you're a paranoid delusional preparing for something that is not going to happen. You and your AR are NEVER going to save the world. You will not walk a post-apocolyptic earth as an uber-bad-ass. You will not save a school bus full of Nuns and children from taliban attack with your super AR skills....

A sure sign of your paranoia is that you won't share where you live. How's Delta gonna recruit you when Chuck Norris goes down, if no one knows where you live?

I would love to shoot with you , and meet you in person. I visit Michigan often enough, maybe we could meet and you can finally shut your damn mouth.

Face it son. What you are so adamantly wanna-be professional about (ARs), 98% of the rest of the planet considers either a joke or nothing more than sport and enjoyment. You are the overly vocal minority in the shooting sports, you're the jackass that ruins things for the rest of us.

You know what would be beyond pathetic? If we met, went shooting together, and you couldn't shoot better than me. With all the uber-tactical-ninja-delta-wanna-be **** you talk, if you couldn't shoot better than a recreational shooter......well, that'd be sad.

Get a ****ing life Napoleon. You're awesome ninja skillz aren't going to save the day.

mvician
10-14-2012, 15:36
:popcorn:


:supergrin:

fnfalman
10-14-2012, 16:18
It doesn't? I use things learned during my time at Drum daily. Hell, throughout the day every day.

What? You cruise the hood with your squad? Full body armored up in wedge formation? Have artillery support fire plan mapped out?

Lately I've edited a few posts after posting them (trying to be a little nicer) but I doubt you are capable of drawing up a PhD level thesis. Prove me wrong;) I'd like to read it.

It was a rhetorical comment. I doubt that a Nobel Prize dissertation would be able to persuade you combat type that there's a big difference between military wartime situation and civilian situation.

Goof-off gun, guns for fooling around? Says a lot. I've never met a tool capable of taking life that wasn't a serious matter. Good thing you live alone, huh.

Well, ain't you Mr. Serious? Yeah, your decked out civilian AR15 is for what? Fighting blue helmets? Biker gangs? Platoons of Arab infiltrators? Red Dawn 2?

Translation - This forum would be waaaaay better if I were able to live in my fantasy world w/o the interruption of factual information.

I'm not the one that lives my life thinking that military combat is around every corner of Small Townville, USA.:rofl:

I find it hilarious that people, especially you, would turn down extremely helpful information that would improve your shooting. Take notice of the ones resistant and those who except advise. It's in every aspect of life. Usually the ones that rise to the top are excepting while those who resist are left behind and remain stagnant.

Helpful information? Is that what you call your spews?:rofl:

You talk about others processing information yet you have to be spoon fed.

Hell, I'm old. Soon, you'll have to chew my food for me before spoonfeeding me.

They don't need to shut the sub-forum down. They need to get rid of the posters who repeatedly put out bad information. It's misleading and a detriment to the forum as a whole. If you want to point fingers, grab your buddy FAL and find a mirror.

Yep. The combat type that can't get anything else in their heeads that the shooting world isn't about war and combat.

fnfalman
10-14-2012, 16:20
I'm sorry, I didn't realize I needed your permission to post, or comment on other peoples posts.


Then why you kept whining about me doing the same thing?


I'll try to remember to check with you in the future.

:rofl:

With my sage advice, it'd definitely help stop making you sound like a GI Joe Commando.


Did one of your 20 yr olds dump you or something? You seem to be on quite the kick trying to stay relevant here.

Well, she didn't like it because I tried to bust the move on her mommy at the same time.

faawrenchbndr
10-14-2012, 16:26
What you said, is that you're a paranoid delusional preparing for something that is not going to happen.........


"Take a look in the mirror.......do ya like what ya see?........."
Everyone that has an opinion that differs from your's is not an
argumentative troll.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 17:03
"Take a look in the mirror.......do ya like what ya see?........."
Everyone that has an opinion that differs from your's is not an
argumentative troll.

I see a person that doesn't have paranoid delusions of uber-ninja AR grandeur...so....yeah.

Most have opinions, which is fine, and largely why we're here. The problem is that there are a handful of posters that dominate and ruin this forum with their COMBAT READY ! juvenile chest thumping. It drives the other 98% of people out of here with borish, repetative and highly predictable crapola about how your AR and your ninja-skillz "running" it define you as a person.

Just look at all the posters that jumped all over the OP for buying an optic that isn't COMBAT READY!!!


It's time this forum was inhabited by fewer psychotic losers that live in a fantasy world.

There, the elephant in the room has been noticed.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 17:09
What? You cruise the hood with your squad? Full body armored up in wedge formation? Have artillery support fire plan mapped out?



It was a rhetorical comment. I doubt that a Nobel Prize dissertation would be able to persuade you combat type that there's a big difference between military wartime situation and civilian situation.



Well, ain't you Mr. Serious? Yeah, your decked out civilian AR15 is for what? Fighting blue helmets? Biker gangs? Platoons of Arab infiltrators? Red Dawn 2?



I'm not the one that lives my life thinking that military combat is around every corner of Small Townville, USA.:rofl:



Helpful information? Is that what you call your spews?:rofl:



Hell, I'm old. Soon, you'll have to chew my food for me before spoonfeeding me.



Yep. The combat type that can't get anything else in their heeads that the shooting world isn't about war and combat.

Stop. Don't try and shock them into re-evaluating their life and what they do.

Might snap....which is dangerous when they have such uber-ninja skillz.

NeverMore1701
10-14-2012, 17:17
http://www.plognark.com/Art/Sketches/Blogsketches/2008/thestupiditburns.jpg

AK_Stick
10-14-2012, 17:21
It's time this forum was inhabited by fewer psychotic losers that live in a fantasy world.

There, the elephant in the room has been noticed.



So you're leaving?


Well, don't let the door hit you. :wavey:




Pretty much every time you or Fal post, its to berate someone in a thread, if you're tired of the arguing, and the bickering, I think you know how to not click on a thread. Most of the arguing, seems to be you two, going from forum to forum looking for fights to pick with long time posters in those forums.

mjkeat
10-14-2012, 17:32
What you said, is that you're a paranoid delusional preparing for something that is not going to happen. You and your AR are NEVER going to save the world. You will not walk a post-apocolyptic earth as an uber-bad-ass. You will not save a school bus full of Nuns and children from taliban attack with your super AR skills....

A sure sign of your paranoia is that you won't share where you live. How's Delta gonna recruit you when Chuck Norris goes down, if no one knows where you live?

I would love to shoot with you , and meet you in person. I visit Michigan often enough, maybe we could meet and you can finally shut your damn mouth.

Face it son. What you are so adamantly wanna-be professional about (ARs), 98% of the rest of the planet considers either a joke or nothing more than sport and enjoyment. You are the overly vocal minority in the shooting sports, you're the jackass that ruins things for the rest of us.

You know what would be beyond pathetic? If we met, went shooting together, and you couldn't shoot better than me. With all the uber-tactical-ninja-delta-wanna-be **** you talk, if you couldn't shoot better than a recreational shooter......well, that'd be sad.

Get a ****ing life Napoleon. You're awesome ninja skillz aren't going to save the day.

Says the guy who buys airsoft products for his AR.

Interesting powers of observation considering I purchase ammunition on a class by class basis and rarely have more than 1K-2K rounds available at any given time. I think we have a couple battles of water in the fridge as well.

Once again you show how little you know. You're as wrong as a troll w/ 46,653 posts. It's not an insult as much as it is constructive critisism. Read. Take classes. Educate yourslf.

I leave my lane from time to time as well. You just have to reel yourself in before it gets out of hand.

What? You cruise the hood with your squad? Full body armored up in wedge formation? Have artillery support fire plan mapped out?



It was a rhetorical comment. I doubt that a Nobel Prize dissertation would be able to persuade you combat type that there's a big difference between military wartime situation and civilian situation.



Well, ain't you Mr. Serious? Yeah, your decked out civilian AR15 is for what? Fighting blue helmets? Biker gangs? Platoons of Arab infiltrators? Red Dawn 2?



I'm not the one that lives my life thinking that military combat is around every corner of Small Townville, USA.:rofl:



Helpful information? Is that what you call your spews?:rofl:



Hell, I'm old. Soon, you'll have to chew my food for me before spoonfeeding me.



Yep. The combat type that can't get anything else in their heeads that the shooting world isn't about war and combat.

And again this shows how little you know. Combat is but a very small portion of Combat Arms.

Explain "decked out"

Explain the difference b/w a war time and civilian situation as it would be approached by a single shooter.

Maybe you can write your thesis on these two questions.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 17:34
So you're leaving?


Well, don't let the door hit you. :wavey:




Pretty much every time you or Fal post, its to berate someone in a thread, if you're tired of the arguing, and the bickering, I think you know how to not click on a thread. Most of the arguing, seems to be you two, going from forum to forum looking for fights to pick with long time posters in those forums.

Son, we're not the problem here.

It has already been explained to you, multiple times, that you and your ilk are ruining this forum with your chest thumping ninja crapola.

Seriously, don't you ever get tired of playing the hard-ass role? Do you ever stop, look in the mirror, and say to yourself..."Jesus H. Christ!! I am really, really over the top!!"

What the **** do you think is going to happen? Are you going to be fighting the Taliban in your home town? Are you combat infantry that is going to march to the sound of the gunz in mid-town USA? Do you think that you need to keep yourself on the bleeding edge of small arms combat efficiency for when the SEALs are a man down and they discover that OBL isn't really dead? Do you think that you're going to be playing the role of Denzel in a real life "Book of Eli"?

More importantly, why do you think anyone else wants to hear your delusional ramblings about how hugely important it is that everyone and their "gear" is "Combat Ready"?

You need to take a deep, deep breath and realise that 98% of the shooting community owns ARs for recreation and sport, with just a little bit of HD/SD thrown in.

For Chissake, look at your avatar!!! Do you see how overly important it is for you to be viewed as an "Operator"? Good Lord but you and the keister are boorish and scary paranoids, and that **** needs to stop around here so normal people can enjoy this forum.

LL6
10-14-2012, 17:34
Just checking in to inform that I will be putting a Bushnell TRS25 on my new piston CMMG so I guess that gets me at least two strikes. :rofl:

mjkeat
10-14-2012, 17:38
Just checking in to inform that I will be putting a Bushnell TRS25 on my new piston CMMG so I guess that gets me at least two strikes. :rofl:
Are you then going to claim that due to your yearly 100 round range trip the TRS25 and CMMG is "just as good as" quality gear? Nothing wrong w/ going cheap. I've tried it many times myself. Unfortunately in this hobby cost is a reflection of quality.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 17:40
Says the guy who buys airsoft products for his AR.

Interesting powers of observation considering I purchase ammunition on a class by class basis and rarely have more than 1K-2K rounds available at any given time. I think we have a couple battles of water in the fridge as well.

Once again you show how little you know. You're as wrong as a troll w/ 46,653 posts. It's not an insult as much as it is constructive critisism. Read. Take classes. Educate yourslf.

I leave my lane from time to time as well. You just have to reel yourself in before it gets out of hand.

Man, you just can't grasp this simple, simple concept.

I don't care what you do, how you do it, or what you know. I don't want to take classes, read, or educate myself to take ARs seriously, because I would be concerned I'd end-up like a paranoid freak such as yourself. You are genuinely weird, like ARs and combat are all you care about. I cannot fathom the bizzare world of continuous paranoia you live in, and levels of egomanical need you have to be an AR Yoda.

No one but you, AK, and a handful of other posters want to talk about your bad-arse uber-tactical ninja AR skillz, we don't care. We want ya'll to go away, so we can discuss ARs like normal, mentally and emotionally healthy human beings.

Jeeeeze, look at your own words!!!! You can't stop talking about "Combat Arms" and "Combat This" and "Combat That", like a child that got his GI Joe doll taken away from him.

Please just put a lid on it.

LL6
10-14-2012, 17:43
I'm claiming it's good enough for enjoying the sport of range plinking and the occasional zombie that may wander in. :cool:

mjkeat
10-14-2012, 17:48
Man, you just can't grasp this simple, simple concept.

I don't care what you do, how you do it, or what you know. I don't want to take classes, read, or educate myself to take ARs seriously, because I would be concerned I'd end-up like a paranoid freak such as yourself. You are genuinely weird, like ARs and combat are all you care about. I cannot fathom the bizzare world of continuous paranoia you live in, and levels of egomanical need you have to be an AR Yoda.

No one but you, AK, and a handful of other posters want to talk about your bad-ass uber-tactical ninja AR skillz, we don't ****ing care. We want ya'll to go away, so we can discuss ARs like normal, mentally and emotionally healthy human beings.

In your case misinform.

AK_Stick
10-14-2012, 17:49
Thats what I find funny, you seem to be the one doing the complaining, and the explaining, and no one else, save Falman, who's rare occurrence in this thread is out of character, because he spends 90% of his time elsewhere making reference to the "barbie" rifle.


Infact, as I doubted your claim, I did a quick search on my name. Of the 13 results, not a single time was I berating anyone for buying a cheaper optic, a lesser than tier 1 manufacturer rifle, or not having tactical gear.

Infact, In a couple of the posts, I was actually encouraging guys to buy cheaper gear, as they didn't need to make the step up. Furthermore, about the only time I post in here anymore, is to answer a general question about the weapons, about ammo choice, or when someone is discussing the tactial/training aspects. I generally avoid the fun shooting threads, unless I'm just dropping in to say something like "nice rifle" or "nice photos"


As far as I can tell, you seem to be butt hurt, because I am what I claim to be, and I do what I claim to do, and I talk to other service members, about what we do.


That you don't like my avatar, or the fact that I seem to have more knowledge about the AR-15, or the fact that I have actually trained, and used it, seem to be sore points for you. I'd suggest you learn to deal with it.

mvician
10-14-2012, 17:52
M&P15T,


Can't you make a post without cussing? Just because the filter changes it to asterisks doesn't make it ok.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 17:57
As far as I can tell, you seem to be butt hurt, because I am what I claim to be, and I do what I claim to do, and I talk to other service members, about what we do.

That you don't like my avatar, or the fact that I seem to have more knowledge about the AR-15, or the fact that I have actually trained, and used it, seem to be sore points for you. I'd suggest you learn to deal with it.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

No, no, that's as wrong as you could possibly be.....and a perfectly clear example of your psychoses.

The point is that I absolutely, positively don't care about your training, service, or AR skillz......it's like you're a broken record of "look how bad-arse I am!!" I've seen 12 year olds with more self-esteem and less need to prove themselves above all others.

Jesus dude......pathetic....simply pathetic.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 17:58
M&P15T,


Can't you make a post without cussing? Just because the filter changes it to asterisks doesn't make it ok.

Well, that's the point to the filter. Still, I can stop it if it offends you.

M&P15T
10-14-2012, 18:02
In your case misinform.

I've never claimed to be an AR ninja....and your example of being one is why.

mjkeat
10-14-2012, 18:04
Well, that's the point to the filter. Don't read my posts if they offend you.

You're a joke guy. Mike could school you on a thing or two.

The Dr. prescribes less typing more reading.

I've never claimed to be an AR ninja....and your example of being one is why.

Quote one single instance where I claimed some sort AR ninjary and I'll never post again ;)

AK_Stick
10-14-2012, 18:06
Anyone else find it ironic, that the only guy telling people to leave, and to not read his posts if they offend other people is the same guy complaining that other people are bullying/pushing posters out? :dunno:



I dunno man, you've got problems, and you seem to be inventing things to be mad about. Even searching this forum, I don't see any times that I've beat anyone up for buying cheap gear/guns, or because they don't do what I do, or have the training I have.


Best of luck with that.

mvician
10-14-2012, 18:25
Well, that's the point to the filter. Still, I can stop it if it offends you.

It doesn't offend me, it just takes away any credibility to anything you have to say, right or wrong.

No one else in this thread is cussing like a drunken sailor, why do you feel like you have to? To try to get your opinion across?

Yelling and screaming like a child who isn't getting their way? Calling people names.....you're drawing attention to yourself, and it isn't good attention.

just my 2 cents....I'll go back to :popcorn:

mjkeat
10-14-2012, 18:42
I want to admit something. As much as I want to help crush all the misinformation being spread there is a piece of me that enjoys reading FN's and M&P's posts. It's like driving past a wreck.

faawrenchbndr
10-15-2012, 02:19
It doesn't offend me, it just takes away any credibility to anything you have to say, right or wrong.

No one else in this thread is cussing like a drunken sailor, why do you feel like you have to? To try to get your opinion across?

Yelling and screaming like a child who isn't getting their way? Calling people names.....you're drawing attention to yourself, and it isn't good attention.

just my 2 cents....I'll go back to :popcorn:



Very well stated Mike,.......can I have some of that popcorn?

:popcorn:


Thanks......:supergrin:

Big Mad Dawg
10-15-2012, 08:05
No, no, that's as wrong as I could possibly be.....and a perfectly clear example of my psychoses.

The point is that I absolutely, positively don't care about training, service, or AR skillz......it's like I'm a broken record of "look how bad-arse I am!!" I've seen 12 year olds with more self-esteem and less need to prove themselves above all others and yet I am just that pathetic.:crying: fixed it for you

The first and toughest step is to be able to recognize that you have serious mental issues then you can start to work on them. You have made a good start I hope someday you make a full recovery.

FLglockdude
10-15-2012, 09:04
First of all, in before the lock.

Secondly, its no secret that an aimpoint or eotech is better than a primary arms sight. I'm sure the OP is well aware of that. Not everybody has a want or need for equipment that can go fight a war. I have a Vortexx Strikefire on my rifle, I know its not an aimpoint but it puts rounds on target. Would I rather have an aimpoint, hell yes, but at this point in my life I am not going to spend $600+ on an optic.

Do you own a vehicle that is capable off-road or that can go fast in the one in a million chance you will need it? No you don't because it doesn't make sense, this is the same thing. If you want it and can afford it, more power to you, but don't jump on somebody's **** because they don't see the need for top shelf gear.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

mjkeat
10-15-2012, 11:58
First of all, in before the lock.

Secondly, its no secret that an aimpoint or eotech is better than a primary arms sight. I'm sure the OP is well aware of that. Not everybody has a want or need for equipment that can go fight a war. I have a Vortexx Strikefire on my rifle, I know its not an aimpoint but it puts rounds on target. Would I rather have an aimpoint, hell yes, but at this point in my life I am not going to spend $600+ on an optic.

Do you own a vehicle that is capable off-road or that can go fast in the one in a million chance you will need it? No you don't because it doesn't make sense, this is the same thing. If you want it and can afford it, more power to you, but don't jump on somebody's **** because they don't see the need for top shelf gear.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Good post and I mostly agree. However, (not you) the same 1-2 like to misinform by making statements of "just as good." As you know this is not true and quite frankly sets up others for failure. These are the same people who scoff at weapons familiarization and safety.

mjkeat
10-15-2012, 12:00
It doesn't offend me, it just takes away any credibility to anything you have to say, right or wrong.

No one else in this thread is cussing like a drunken sailor, why do you feel like you have to? To try to get your opinion across?

Yelling and screaming like a child who isn't getting their way? Calling people names.....you're drawing attention to yourself, and it isn't good attention.

just my 2 cents....I'll go back to :popcorn:

It also shows a lack of confidence in your argument. It's a last ditch effort as you're ship is sinking.

doc540
10-15-2012, 13:41
I chose to spend about $100 on an optic and was criticized for that choice.

NO ONE here knows my current employment or financial situation.

Furthermore, none of the critics has a clue about what I paid for the SBR.

Spend your money on what you want, and I'll spend my money on what I can afford and what best suits my application.

LL6
10-15-2012, 14:19
I chose to spend about $100 on an optic and was criticized for that choice.

NO ONE here knows my current employment or financial situation.

Furthermore, none of the critics has a clue about what I paid for the SBR.

Spend your money on what you want, and I'll spend my money on what I can afford and what best suits my application.

/thumbsup

I'm not building a 'boutique' gun so I'm buying a TRS-25. It's a quality optic but in no way am I thinking it's better that the $500+ ones, but it's also not a cheap plastic knock-off either.

People need to get past the price tag and realize there is a range of acceptable quality vs junk.

matt_lowry123
10-15-2012, 17:46
This is one of the best threads I've seen for a bit!!!

Snaps
10-15-2012, 22:14
wow, and here I was checking back in ot see more budget type quality optics.

Travclem
10-16-2012, 06:46
Very well stated Mike,.......can I have some of that popcorn?

:popcorn:


Thanks......:supergrin:
Pass that over here:popcorn:

Sharkey
10-16-2012, 07:39
Really? Higher price = better regardless of materials used, workmanship? :faint:


Oh c'mon, don't you know that? That is why MB and BMW constantly rank up there in JD Powers and Consumer Report ratings. :supergrin:

CigarandScotch
10-16-2012, 08:10
There's one troll I keep seeing in all the troll fights here.

Maybe he is the one that needs to GTFO. I, for one, am tired of seeing his long winded drivel every time there is an argument on GT.

fnfalman
10-16-2012, 10:45
I want to admit something. As much as I want to help crush all the misinformation being spread there is a piece of me that enjoys reading FN's and M&P's posts. It's like driving past a wreck.

Crush what misinformation? That every civilian AR15 has to have a thousand dollars worth of optics and accessories on it so that the civilians can fight off Red Dawn 2?

fnfalman
10-16-2012, 10:47
wow, and here I was checking back in ot see more budget type quality optics.

Budget type quality optics?

NO!!! Your life depends on it!!! It's for Seriously Use!!! Professionally Trained people use it!!! Combat soldiers use it!!!

fnfalman
10-16-2012, 10:49
Pretty much every time you or Fal post, its to berate someone in a thread, if you're tired of the arguing, and the bickering, I think you know how to not click on a thread. Most of the arguing, seems to be you two, going from forum to forum looking for fights to pick with long time posters in those forums.

I'm not berating anybody. I'm simply poking fun at those who take themselves too seriously and being all self-righteous about combat this and combat that when the OP just wanted to talk about some cheap toys.

fnfalman
10-16-2012, 10:53
I don't care what you do, how you do it, or what you know. I don't want to take classes, read, or educate myself to take ARs seriously, because I would be concerned I'd end-up like a paranoid freak such as yourself. You are genuinely weird, like ARs and combat are all you care about. I cannot fathom the bizzare world of continuous paranoia you live in, and levels of egomanical need you have to be an AR Yoda.

No one but you, AK, and a handful of other posters want to talk about your bad-arse uber-tactical ninja AR skillz,

Don't judge them too harshly. Chalk it up to youthful exuberance. I was like that twenty-something years ago and the old timers had a good fun time laughing at me too.

cowboy1964
10-16-2012, 11:54
What ammo do you see running in that, for SHTF/zombie use?

mvician
10-16-2012, 12:16
Crush what misinformation? That every civilian AR15 has to have a thousand dollars worth of optics and accessories on it so that the civilians can fight off Red Dawn 2?

This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

:popcorn:

CigarandScotch
10-16-2012, 12:25
This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

:popcorn:

+1

If you don't want it or can't afford it, or just can't justify having it....don't buy it. But don't get into a purse swinging contest on the internet about it because you are butthurt...

DaleGribble
10-16-2012, 15:35
This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

:popcorn:

My only post to this train wreck...

IMHO the "just as good as" needs a qualifier attached to it. For the professional trigger puller the cheaper optics will never be "just as good as" and Marshall of Primary Arms has said the same about his very own products.

For the guy that shoots his AR occasionally and only at the paper zombies it is "just as good as" a high end optic.

When I got paid to carry a weapon I used an Eotech. Now that I don't and my AR's are a hobby I won't drop that kind of coin for a range toy.

Just my humble opinion.

And now, back to the :popcorn:

fnfalman
10-16-2012, 17:34
This misinformation that cheap stuff is "just as good as".

:popcorn:

Who claimed that the Chinese knockoffs are "just as good as" Trijicon/Leupold/Eotech/Aimpoint/Zeiss/Schmidt&Bender?

I read that some claimed the el cheapos are "good enough" for their owners' purposes.

doc540
10-16-2012, 18:20
Who claimed that the Chinese knockoffs are "just as good as" Trijicon/Leupold/Eotech/Aimpoint/Zeiss/Schmidt&Bender?

I read that some claimed the el cheapos are "good enough" for their owners' purposes.

It's the typical Forum Fighter knee-jerk response to the words, "budget" and, "AR15".

It's become a modern syndrome.

Soon they'll be an acronym for it.

Contest?:cool:

jeepinbandit
10-16-2012, 18:33
BAR-15.

"Budget" AR-15

doc540
10-16-2012, 18:49
BAR-15.

"Budget" AR-15
:supergrin:

We need an acronym for jackass forum fighter knee-jerk reactions.

mjkeat
10-16-2012, 21:22
Crush what misinformation? That every civilian AR15 has to have a thousand dollars worth of optics and accessories on it so that the civilians can fight off Red Dawn 2?

This ^ misinformation. If this is really how you think I feel you're everything you've proven yourself to be. No individual on this forum is suggesting anyone spend thousands.

$995 6920
$550 used H1 w/ Larue Mount
$50 rear sight
$40 sling
$56 4 PMags
$117 500 rounds of ammunition
$65 4hr. Basic Carbine
= Done

I'm looking for the thousands.

Don't hold a grudge because someone younger has a lot more knowledge, experience, and common sense than you. You're time has passed. Most, if not all, see through the gross exaggerations you throw out while grasping for traction.

LL6
10-16-2012, 22:54
It's pretty much a given fact that "budget", "cost-effective", etc are often times dirty words to those that covet the pricier brands. Unfortunately the internet tends to foster this from guns to mountain bikes.

Earlier today I was reading a similar thread at "you-know-who.net" where there were a few throwing off on Spike lowers. The reasons given weren't very relevant. This attitude is myopic and what they fail to realize is it may have a direct affect on them as a couple were "industry professionals" connected with schools. Does anyone think that attitudes like this will attract future students?

In my naive way I approach it from an enthusiast's pov and don't roll my eyes whether someone is sporting a kia or an AMG-quality weapon. Who cares because we are doing something we want to or like to do and not everyone has the funds or situation to warrant spending lots of dinero.

Last, mjkeat you're a smart guy so re-read your last para to fnfal and tell me what you think may be wrong with that attitude?

mjkeat
10-16-2012, 23:18
It's pretty much a given fact that "budget", "cost-effective", etc are often times dirty words to those that covet the pricier brands. Unfortunately the internet tends to foster this from guns to mountain bikes.

Have you ever been to a class where someone came w/ their airsoft equipped DPMS? I have. The instructor ends up babysitting while everyone else has to crawl because airsoft boy can't get his optic to hold zero. It has nothing to do w/ cost. Only people defending their toy quality gear are concerned w/ cost.

Earlier today I was reading a similar thread at "you-know-who.net" where there were a few throwing off on Spike lowers. The reasons given weren't very relevant. This attitude is myopic and what they fail to realize is it may have a direct affect on them as a couple were "industry professionals" connected with schools. Does anyone think that attitudes like this will attract future students?

There is a lot of talk about Spikes. Most of it has to do w/ their biz practices and their emblem that resembles dueling *****es.

Also read above.

Last, mjkeat you're a smart guy so re-read your last para to fnfal and tell me what you think may be wrong with that attitude?

Enlighten me.

SigFTW
10-17-2012, 08:37
:supergrin:

We need an acronym for jackass forum fighter knee-jerk reactions.

:rofl::rofl:

Now back on topic :supergrin:
doc, nice AR and optics!! :thumbsup:

fnfalman
10-17-2012, 08:53
This ^ misinformation. If this is really how you think I feel you're everything you've proven yourself to be. No individual on this forum is suggesting anyone spend thousands.

$995 6920
$550 used H1 w/ Larue Mount
$50 rear sight
$40 sling
$56 4 PMags
$117 500 rounds of ammunition
$65 4hr. Basic Carbine
= Done

I'm looking for the thousands.

H1? Substitute that with a brand new ACOG and see what the new price is? Where's the flashlight in that accessories list? What about the MagPul rails/buttstock/front grip accessories?

Don't hold a grudge because someone younger has a lot more knowledge, experience, and common sense than you. You're time has passed. Most, if not all, see through the gross exaggerations you throw out while grasping for traction.

Kid, I've forgotten more about shooting than you'd ever know. As far as common sense goes, we all know who has it and who doesn't. Of course, can't really hold that against you because common sense and wisdom come with age.

Don't take it too personally because when I laugh at you, I also laugh at myself as I recalled my conversations with the old timers back when I was your age. Hell, I knew it all and the old timeys didn't know nuthin' because I was better trained with more recent knowledge.

Twenty years from now, you'd have the same conversation with some youngsters who claimed that you don't know nuthin' about nuthin' and that they know more, and experience more, ad infinitum.

M&P15T
10-17-2012, 09:26
Fun day at the range:

Well, got out to the range yesterday, and low and behold, another AR shooter was using a Tru-glow Tru-Bright Open Red Dot sight. I had never seen one before, so he let me fondle his rifle and check the optic out. I was rather shocked at how small and sharp the dot was, 95% as good as the center dot on my Eotech....for $99.00

Oh well, it's not tactical enough, not ready for COMABT!! , so he must have been an idiot loser.

Still, a fun day was had at the range. 100 yard shots at a torso-sized metal plate was beyond easy, while standing, kneeling, moving, whatever. It was great fun to get the aural feed-back on your hits.

So, it looks as if there is another el cheapo optic to consider. I tried to get more info from Tru-Glo's web site, but it basically doesn't function, so no luck there. Still, very nice red dot for $99.00
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11947932&cp=4406646.4413993.4414427.4414460

In all obectivity, I think we're on the cusp of serious cost vrs. performance changes in the AR optic market. That Truglo, while not as rugged, would work as well as an Aimpoint/Eotech for a recreational/HD shooter, no problem.

M&P15T
10-17-2012, 09:28
H1? Substitute that with a brand new ACOG and see what the new price is? Where's the flashlight in that accessories list? What about the MagPul rails/buttstock/front grip accessories?



Kid, I've forgotten more about shooting than you'd ever know. As far as common sense goes, we all know who has it and who doesn't. Of course, can't really hold that against you because common sense and wisdom come with age.

Don't take it too personally because when I laugh at you, I also laugh at myself as I recalled my conversations with the old timers back when I was your age. Hell, I knew it all and the old timeys didn't know nuthin' because I was better trained with more recent knowledge.

Twenty years from now, you'd have the same conversation with some youngsters who claimed that you don't know nuthin' about nuthin' and that they know more, and experience more, ad infinitum.

Dude, seriously, Ignore List.

Don't beat your head against the trolling wall.

fnfalman
10-17-2012, 09:35
Have you ever been to a class where someone came w/ their airsoft equipped DPMS? I have. The instructor ends up babysitting while everyone else has to crawl because airsoft boy can't get his optic to hold zero. It has nothing to do w/ cost. Only people defending their toy quality gear are concerned w/ cost.
It sounds like you need to do more research into the organization that holds these kinds of classes.

Seriously, airsoft optics in a class? I've never seen such an animal at Gunsite training courses.

Of course, if the instructors were of high caliber, then they would have had airsoft boy gone to iron sights and teach airsoft boy on how to fight with iron sight. I know, I know, I know, it's 2012 and iron sights are soooo 19th century and all that, right?


Enlighten me.

Don't say it if you don't mean it. You're not going to listen to a damn thing we "old timers" are going to say to you. It's cool though, the march of time will enlighten you.

fnfalman
10-17-2012, 09:41
Dude, seriously, Ignore List.

Don't beat your head against the trolling wall.

Thanks for the suggestion, but my Ignore List is empty and I like it that way.

What fun is it to only post with a bunch of yes-men?

M&P15T
10-17-2012, 10:06
Thanks for the suggestion, but my Ignore List is empty and I like it that way.

What fun is it to only post with a bunch of yes-men?

Gotcha.....

I'm watching my blood-pressure, so I'm using the Ignore List.

CigarandScotch
10-17-2012, 10:11
I'm sure the OP is glad that you idiots hijacked this thread. At least the purse swinging provides some mindless entertainment.

mjkeat
10-17-2012, 13:56
H1? Substitute that with a brand new ACOG and see what the new price is? Where's the flashlight in that accessories list? What about the MagPul rails/buttstock/front grip accessories?

Why an ACOG? The H1/T1 is more than capable of placing fast/accurate rounds on target at distances welll beyond anything a civilian will encounter.

Read: Basic Carbine

Who needs accessories?

Kid, I've forgotten more about shooting than you'd ever know. As far as common sense goes, we all know who has it and who doesn't. Of course, can't really hold that against you because common sense and wisdom come with age.

Quite possible but irrelevant information doesn't count.

Remind me. What's my age?

Don't take it too personally because when I laugh at you, I also laugh at myself as I recalled my conversations with the old timers back when I was your age. Hell, I knew it all and the old timeys didn't know nuthin' because I was better trained with more recent knowledge..

Once again, what's my age?

You don't have the life experience at this point in your life than individuals half your age. Not only that but like stated earlier, the information you've retained has proven to be irrelevant.

Your laughter is a defensive mechanism as you come to terms w/ the fact that you've lost traction.

Twenty years from now, you'd have the same conversation with some youngsters who claimed that you don't know nuthin' about nuthin' and that they know more, and experience more, ad infinitum.

Doubtful as I do my best to stay abreast w/ relevancy.

It sounds like you need to do more research into the organization that holds these kinds of classes.

Seriously, airsoft optics in a class? I've never seen such an animal at Gunsite training courses.

Of course, if the instructors were of high caliber, then they would have had airsoft boy gone to iron sights and teach airsoft boy on how to fight with iron sight. I know, I know, I know, it's 2012 and iron sights are soooo 19th century and all that, right?

Don't say it if you don't mean it. You're not going to listen to a damn thing we "old timers" are going to say to you. It's cool though, the march of time will enlighten you.

Unfortunately you can't always predict who and what is going to show up and are left having to work w/ what is in front of you. That's what basic classes are for. Most, after realizing there is indead more cons than pros to cheap optics/accessories etc. show up w/ quality gear next time or don't show up at all.

Sites like this are great for conveying such experience. Experience that would help that first time student show up more prepared. But then you have individuals who preach airsoft, just as good, and mediocrity who set these people up for failure. People like you.

When the curriculum for that portion of the class calls for the zeroing of your optic, you zero your optic. When you're supposed to be working malfunction drills you don't work transition drills.

What classes did you attend at Gunsite and when?

If anything you said was relevant people would listen.


The cuteness has worn off and this is starting to resemble 2A talk w/ a liberal. You and your boy don't know what you're talking about but then again as the phrase goes, you don't know what you don't know.

I only continue this so others aren't mislead. However, it seems that the good majority fully understand your incompetence. It appears that my job is complete.

Snaps
10-17-2012, 14:09
Budget type quality optics?

NO!!! Your life depends on it!!! It's for Seriously Use!!! Professionally Trained people use it!!! Combat soldiers use it!!!

nah.. If my life ever depends on something I have a good gun to grab. I've done the combat soldier thing, and yea, it's nothing like what Im' doing when I go shooting now days and 99.483% sure it'll never be like that.

We're good on our hundred dollar stuff. :)

If that little over half a percent possibility does come true there's a Colt Aimpoint combo in my safe or a Colt Eotech combo. Either way I'm good.

fnfalman
10-17-2012, 15:12
Why an ACOG? The H1/T1 is more than capable of placing fast/accurate rounds on target at distances welll beyond anything a civilian will encounter.

Is the H1/T1 Uncle Sam approved? If not then they're not combat capable.

Remind me. What's my age?



Once again, what's my age?

You are, what, 30 at most?

You don't have the life experience at this point in your life than individuals half your age. Not only that but like stated earlier, the information you've retained has proven to be irrelevant.

Yep, same thing I said to the old timers when I was younger.

Your laughter is a defensive mechanism as you come to terms w/ the fact that you've lost traction.

Nope. My laughter is the amusement I see myself in you and how things truly come around.

Doubtful as I do my best to stay abreast w/ relevancy.

Wait till another twenty years.

Unfortunately you can't always predict who and what is going to show up and are left having to work w/ what is in front of you. That's what basic classes are for. Most, after realizing there is indead more cons than pros to cheap optics/accessories etc. show up w/ quality gear next time or don't show up at all.

Once again, where do you go for these classes? Gunsite? Thunder Ranch? Front Sight? Any well known and well established training center?

Sites like this are great for conveying such experience. Experience that would help that first time student show up more prepared.

No, if you were to have gone to a well established facility then you would know that these facilities even have pre-basic marksmanship courses to make sure that the shooters even know which way the bullets fly.

type But then you have individuals who preach airsoft, just as good, and mediocrity who set these people up for failure. People like you.

Show me in any of my post that I have said cheap optics are just as good as quality optics. Come on, I have 40K+ posts, surely you can find one post of me equating an NCStar to an Aimpoint?

What classes did you attend at Gunsite and when?

Pistol 250, 350, 499 with the last course was two years ago.

Rifle 170, 270, AK, Battle Rifle. Last course was three years ago.

If anything you said was relevant people would listen.

I'll bet that plenty of people have listened to my sage advices on GlockTalk than your Mr. Combat advices.


The cuteness has worn off and this is starting to resemble 2A talk w/ a liberal. You and your boy don't know what you're talking about but then again as the phrase goes, you don't know what you don't know.

If that's makes you feel good and wise, then go for it, grasshoppa.

I only continue this so others aren't mislead. However, it seems that the good majority fully understand your incompetence. It appears that my job is complete.

I never claimed to be some sort of xpurt unlike you. You see, no matter how good or badass you think you are, or may be in real life you truly are as good and badass as you claim, some people simply don't give a damn. As soon as you can get that through your head, it'll save a lot of headache and blood pressure.

CigarandScotch
10-17-2012, 16:55
For the love of God please lock this thread.

You guys have issues.

mjkeat
10-17-2012, 17:13
FNFAL, your posts and claimed shooting background do not match. This means one of 2 things. Either you are lying or trolling.

I just called up a gentalman that has trained quite a bit w/ Gunsite and is certified to instruct for them.

I had a kid bragging about his time w/ Triple Canopy as we were walking onto the range. After about 5 min. I asked him who he recieved his training from. W/O giving him the chance to respond I asked, "Triple Canopy?" His responce was yes. What he didn't know was that my former boss, now instructor, was a trainer for Triple C.

Like that kid something is not adding up here.

faawrenchbndr
10-17-2012, 17:18
FNFAL, your posts and claimed shooting background do not match. This means one of 2 things. Either you are lying or trolling.......


Trolling for sure,........as for the other part? :dunno:

fnfalman
10-17-2012, 17:34
FNFAL, your posts and claimed shooting background do not match. This means one of 2 things. Either you are lying or trolling.

I just called up a gentalman that has trained quite a bit w/ Gunsite and is certified to instruct for them.

I had a kid bragging about his time w/ Triple Canopy as we were walking onto the range. After about 5 min. I asked him who he recieved his training from. W/O giving him the chance to respond I asked, "Triple Canopy?" His responce was yes. What he didn't know was that my former boss, now instructor, was a trainer for Triple C.

Like that kid something is not adding up here.

And guess what? I don't really care if you think I'm lying or not.

Maybe I lied. Maybe I didn't. You'd never know. And I don't care if you'd know or not knowing or prove I'm a liar or a troll.

And I'm sure that others on GlockTalk don't care either.

fnfalman
10-17-2012, 17:35
Trolling for sure,........as for the other part? :dunno:

Trolling? Am I the one that comes into threads that talk about budget optics and budget guns then rag on others about how these things aren't fit for "serious use" and "combat".

DaleGribble
10-17-2012, 17:53
I said I wasn't posting in the thread again but...

I've seen pics of Fal from his military days and more current pics, so he's not lying about his prior service.

Other than that, just knock it off already. This is total BS and the constant arguing in multiple threads is ruining this forum and I wouldn't be surprised if the plug got pulled and he puts the black rifle forum out of its misery.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

LL6
10-17-2012, 18:16
For the love of God please lock this thread.

You guys have issues.

FIFY :whistling:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28539059.jpg

mjkeat
10-17-2012, 18:26
And guess what? I don't really care if you think I'm lying or not.

Maybe I lied. Maybe I didn't. You'd never know. And I don't care if you'd know or not knowing or prove I'm a liar or a troll.

And I'm sure that others on GlockTalk don't care either.

Well I hope you did.

I said I wasn't posting in the thread again but...

I've seen pics of Fal from his military days and more current pics, so he's not lying about his prior service.

Other than that, just knock it off already. This is total BS and the constant arguing in multiple threads is ruining this forum and I wouldn't be surprised if the plug got pulled and he puts the black rifle forum out of its misery.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Nobody is questioning his service. I don't think anyone here would do so. FNFAL has shared his military experience and it was discussed.

I know it can be hard to follow w/ all the back and forth but that is the main cause of the argument here. People go on about things they think they know. Then when someone sets the record straight, boom, the circus begins.

faawrenchbndr
10-18-2012, 02:19
Trolling? Am I the one that comes into threads that talk about budget optics and budget guns then rag on others about how these things aren't fit for "serious use" and "combat".

Trolling may be a bit harsh.......looking for an argument better?

We've butted heads for a while now......I've always considered
it in good fun. You have GREAT ideas, experiences, & I respect
most of what you say.

However, Mike is about the same, you to are very similar. Both
of you are completely correct, but both of you are seeing the
"other side of the coin"

To the both of you,.......just because someone has a differing opinion,
it does not mean they are arguing!

cyphertext
10-18-2012, 07:34
OK, let's get this budget optic thread back on track...

OP, my buddy has a Sightmark and he has not had good luck with it so far. No matter how much he adjusts the quick release, it does not stay tight on the rifle. Tighten it down, shoot a magazine, tighten it down again. It also seems to be canted when mounted on his rifle.

To be fair though, his Sightmark was not new in box. It was a takeoff from a rifle sold to a pawnshop. Pawnshop owner didn't think that it added any value to the rifle, so he offered it to my friend for cheap.

cyphertext
10-18-2012, 07:46
Just checking in to inform that I will be putting a Bushnell TRS25 on my new piston CMMG so I guess that gets me at least two strikes. :rofl:

I like the Bushnell TRS25. I put one on my son's M&P 15-22. I think it is "as good as" my Millet Multidot-sp that rides on my rifle. Can I say that? :supergrin:

I think an EOTech is in my future, but today I run a budget optic just to see if I even like red dots. The Millet was the first red dot I have used. Figured for less than $100 give it a try...if I didn't like it, it could go on a .22 for a fun, plinking gun. Kids like them, and don't know the difference.

LL6
10-18-2012, 12:06
I like the Bushnell TRS25. I put one on my son's M&P 15-22. I think it is "as good as" my Millet Multidot-sp that rides on my rifle. Can I say that? :supergrin:
Don't know if the forum censors will let that fly. :whistling:

I think an EOTech is in my future, but today I run a budget optic just to see if I even like red dots. The Millet was the first red dot I have used. Figured for less than $100 give it a try...if I didn't like it, it could go on a .22 for a fun, plinking gun. Kids like them, and don't know the difference.

This is my first foray into black rifles with optics so I'm kind of like you. If the situation or my desires go past something like the TRS25 then I will cross that bridge when I get there.

mjkeat
10-18-2012, 21:32
Trolling may be a bit harsh.......looking for an argument better?

We've butted heads for a while now......I've always considered
it in good fun. You have GREAT ideas, experiences, & I respect
most of what you say.

However, Mike is about the same, you to are very similar. Both
of you are completely correct, but both of you are seeing the
"other side of the coin"

To the both of you,.......just because someone has a differing opinion,
it does not mean they are arguing!

I welcome differing opinion. Opinion and fact are two different things however.

mjkeat
10-18-2012, 21:35
This is my first foray into black rifles with optics so I'm kind of like you. If the situation or my desires go past something like the TRS25 then I will cross that bridge when I get there.


If you're not ready when you get to that bridge it'll be to late. Best case scenario you'll be stuck at the range w/ a non functioning optic.

faawrenchbndr
10-19-2012, 02:10
I welcome differing opinion. Opinion and fact are two different things however.


I completely understand & agree 100% Mike.
Sometime be best learn from our failures & mistaken choices.
Pay once, cry once........I bought my CompM2 when I was active,
it has to have 10k+ rounds fired while mounted, never a hiccup!

NeverMore1701
10-19-2012, 02:28
The way I see it, if I'm going to bet my life on a piece of equipment, I'll get quality stuff, even if it's expensive. If it's a toy, I'll set a budget and get the best I can within that constraint. For me, a $99 micro dot would be fine on my .22 plinker/pest control pistol, but I'd go with an RMR if I was setting up a pimped out Sig/FN/Glock for defense.

fnfalman
10-19-2012, 08:54
Trolling may be a bit harsh.......looking for an argument better?

We've butted heads for a while now......I've always considered
it in good fun. You have GREAT ideas, experiences, & I respect
most of what you say.

However, Mike is about the same, you to are very similar. Both
of you are completely correct, but both of you are seeing the
"other side of the coin"

To the both of you,.......just because someone has a differing opinion,
it does not mean they are arguing!

I've never come into a thread that talks about combat training or high quality guns/optics combo and tell people that it's worthless or whatever.

I only respond to postings in these types of threads against those combat commando types who think that everything is about "serious use" and "combat".

fnfalman
10-19-2012, 08:56
Nobody is questioning his service. I don't think anyone here would do so. FNFAL has shared his military experience and it was discussed.

I know it can be hard to follow w/ all the back and forth but that is the main cause of the argument here. People go on about things they think they know. Then when someone sets the record straight, boom, the circus begins.

What does my combat record or combat training have to do in a thread about budget optics and zombie rifles?

What does YOUR combat record or training have to do with a thread about budget optics and zombie rifles? Unless you think that zombies are real...

LL6
10-19-2012, 09:45
The way I see it, if I'm going to bet my life on a piece of equipment, I'll get quality stuff, even if it's expensive. If it's a toy, I'll set a budget and get the best I can within that constraint. For me, a $99 micro dot would be fine on my .22 plinker/pest control pistol, but I'd go with an RMR if I was setting up a pimped out Sig/FN/Glock for defense.

Dude you are so limiting yourself when you can mount a Swarovski Z6i-6x24. I found one discounted to the bargain price of $2399 (http://www.opticsplanet.com/swarovski-z6i-1-6x24-illuminated-riflescope-ee-cd-reticle.html). I'm sure you can budget one in. I mean what if you bumped into Bill Gates at your next carbine class and he saw you with just an Aimpoint or EOtech? He might think you brought your plinker to class. :rofl: