Question for our right to work brothers/sisters.. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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FiremanMike
10-10-2012, 17:35
If you work at a non-union shop in a non-union state, does everyone make the same pay rate at your department? Lets say someone with a ton of applicable experience applies at your department, would they get started at the bottom tier or the top tier of pay?

blueiron
10-10-2012, 17:42
When we had no memorandum of understanding regarding meet and confer; we were paid based on seniority and acceptable or greater previous evaluation.

Cav
10-10-2012, 18:27
Start at the bottom and earn your way up. City will have across the board pay raise, you can get merit/eval pay raise, and based on set certs/training can get extra pay. Time on the job gives more money and more time off.

My agency would question why with all your experiance you would come to us. We would look at a fresh officer to mold over a person that might be set about things.

IMHO it makes officers work harder and not just sit back and enjoy the pay. We tend to have quality officers and its easy to get rid of sorry officers.

Civil Service/Union departments tend to have more issues from what we see.

jpa
10-10-2012, 18:28
Nevada is a RTW state. Membership in the union is optional, meaning you do NOT have to pay dues to join the union to work there. I work for the state whose employees are not allowed to bargain collectively for anything. We get what is set by the Legislature as our salary, benefits, working conditions, etc. The Personnel Commission also meets regularly and engages in administrative rulemaking like the CFR for the feds that applies to all state employees. They will make rules such as when we're eligible for shift differential, rules for earning holiday pay, etc etc.

Local and county employees are union members complete with a contract. If you're not a member of the union, you don't pay dues but the same terms of the contract that was negotiated by the union apply to you. Compensation, benefits, work conditions, days off, seniority, layoff/promotion rules, etc etc. However if you're not a member of the union and the employer breaches the contract in its dealings with you, you're on your own to fight the employer. That means you hire your own lawyer, prep your own documents, gather and interview your own witnesses, go before the employee management relations board (ironically enough, a state agency) and present your case. The employer presents their case and then the board rules. As a union member you get that stuff taken care of for you as well as the other incidents when you may need representation (OIS, in custody death, disciplinary issues, etc).

Since I'm a state employee and we don't get these things I have no experience with it in a law enforcement setting. However my mom is a public school teacher and I've seen their contract as well as how the union works for the employee. I'd say joining the union is cheap insurance for protecting your job in the event your boss no longer likes you. All other provisions of the contract apply regardless if you're in the union or not.

In response to your question, a "lateral" transfer complete with certifications, a police academy etc under their belt may be placed at a higher level on the pay scale depending on years of service, qualifications, etc. Just like some departments will start you out higher if you have a bachelors, a masters, etc.

Vigilant
10-10-2012, 19:10
I found out some time after I started that the state pays more for those with a Degree, but I was told it was too late; I should have negotiated that before I went to work. I do know some who have negotiated another 10% or so with the right type of Degree. Mine is technical, so the bastards consider it the equivalent of an Associates.

If you apply for a position at another camp which equates to a promotion, you get the pay raise that goes with the job; otherwise, if you transfer on a lateral, the pay is the same.

We are a RTW state, and completely non-union in all State agencies. I'm not saying all union shops are crooked, but after some of the crap I have seen, I'll pass on union representation, unless it's totally different in Law Enforcement/Corrections. We are afforded a certain amount of job protection through the legislature, especially after we are vested. I'll settle for that personally.

Dukeboy01
10-10-2012, 19:37
We're union but the Sheriff's office isn't. She sets the pay however she wants, promotes and demotes people willy- nilly, and the employees have no protections at all.

merlynusn
10-11-2012, 07:44
I'm in a RTW state so no unions or collective bargaining. Everyone starts at same pay scale. There are merit raises until you are topped out (assuming you actually get them). If you are a lateral, they will typically start you higher on the scale depending on how many years you have up to a total of 15-20% of the base. An Associates is 5% and a Bachelors is 10% across the board for officers. Once you make SGT, no degree bonus. The only other bonus we have is language and PTO. Nothing else. Detectives make same amount as Patrol.

Since the City used the economy as an excuse (even though the City's general fund grew by well over $20M over those years) to not give us a raise the past few years, we didn't have any recourse except to quit or suck it up.

FiremanMike
10-12-2012, 08:39
A bit of a followup..

If you're working in a non union shop and you feel like you aren't making enough, do you feel like the city is paying you as much as they can afford to? If not, what is your city spending their money on instead?

CW Mock
10-12-2012, 11:08
RTW state here, working for state.

No unions.

No raises for grunts in 10 years, and we are admin punching bags. Supervisors get raises until they are capped. It sucks. We have employee associations. The official one, and the FOP. One will support you legally against the department, the other will not. I'm with the one that will, because anymore we are more afraid of our admin than we are people on the street. After all, one can only kill us, the other can destroy our lives.

Everyone that comes here as a "lateral" gets the Academy and starts at the bottom of the pay scale. Seems to be pretty common here though.


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Cav
10-12-2012, 12:24
A bit of a followup..

If you're working in a non union shop and you feel like you aren't making enough, do you feel like the city is paying you as much as they can afford to? If not, what is your city spending their money on instead?

Prior to Obama we got paid well. Now the whole city gets a raise or no one gets a raise. When funds are set aside its based on evals/merit as to what % raise you get. Our city pays us based on fair pay for the area. If a few people grumble about the pay and state they are leaving due to the pay and more might leave, we might get a bonus ($2000 to $3000) to sign a 1 year contract or get extra stuff.

I will say this, my city spends more on the PD than the FD or anyone else. If we ask for things we tend to get things, but there are a few budgets/grants/funds that are used. We might not have funds for a pay raise, but we can buy new SWAT vehicles, Radio's, MDT's, etc... as the funds are different.

If you want more money, we have side jobs and the city can help get more jobs, but they dont want every officer doing PD work and side jobs every day.

We dont tend to get the games played like some civil service and union places. We do our job, get supported by the people and the city, and get more equipment than we really need to do our job. If we could turn down equipment and get the cash or have a gym built we would be happy.

blueiron
10-12-2012, 12:56
A bit of a followup..

If you're working in a non union shop and you feel like you aren't making enough, do you feel like the city is paying you as much as they can afford to? If not, what is your city spending their money on instead?


I know of no agency/government that pays their people as much as possible. It is counter-intuitive to human nature and business practices.

Some cities/counties operate on a deficit, some operate as a zero revenue entity, and some operate with a cash reserve. One would have to give a stated example and examine that example. A town of 4,500 population will spend its taxes differently than NYC.

ditchdoc24
10-13-2012, 06:18
I work for a SO in a RTW state. The only unions are in some of the bigger agencies around Atlanta or the other major cities but the unions are very weak. At my agency, there have been no raises since 2008 so everyone hired since then makes exactly the same money once they get off probation. The Sheriff doesn't like hiring guys on at the same pay as guys who've been there for several years. Once you get off probation, you get a $1 per hour raise which brings you up to the same pay as most of the other folks.

merlynusn
10-13-2012, 08:02
A bit of a followup..

If you're working in a non union shop and you feel like you aren't making enough, do you feel like the city is paying you as much as they can afford to? If not, what is your city spending their money on instead?

No. No. Stupid ****.

To expand. We finally got a raise this year for the first time since 2008. Our leadership has gotten a pay raise every year along with city council, city manager, etc. The raises they get more than double what the average city worker gets.

They are paying us what they want and using the economy as an excuse. They are spending millions of dollars on things that we don't need and no one wants.

They cut our court time from 3 hours to 2, call back from 3 to 2, they only pay out OT once a month so if you use benefit time during that month, you typically won't get OT (time and a half). They save millions with that alone, then use the money for stupid stuff that we don't need. They buy toys instead of things we need (like new computers and cars).