1x4 or 2x8 Nikon 223 scope on my M4? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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WarEagle32
10-10-2012, 23:39
I am leaning heavy towards putting a variable scope on my 2nd M4. The other has an Aimpoint. This M4 will be used to do some hunting as well as pretty much every other type of shooting. I like the Nikons 223's so far. They are designed around the 55grain ammo that I shoot a ton of. I have about a 5 or 600 budget for the optic and mounts. I can't decide whether to get a 1x4 or a 2x8 to put on the M4. I am leaning hard towards the 2x8, but I'm sure a 1x4 would be great as well. Opinions please?

Kloogee
10-11-2012, 05:37
I'm just a newbie, but I love my M223 scope on my DD rifle. Right now it's just a bench rest range gun, but would eventually like to do a bit of predator hunting with it.

Tim151515
10-11-2012, 05:55
im looking at picking up the 1-4 nikon for my Colt. one question...will it be able to see over the fixed front site post? i really want a quality optic(without having to spend 4/5 hundred or more) but don't want one where im going to have to make other changes to my rifle to accomodate it.

GSSF17
10-11-2012, 05:59
im looking at picking up the 1-4 nikon for my Colt. one question...will it be able to see over the fixed front site post? i really want a quality optic(without having to spend 4/5 hundred or more) but don't want one where im going to have to make other changes to my rifle to accomodate it.

I got the Nikon P223 3x32 fixed optic on my Noveske, and it is friggin incredible. I also have the fixed front sight post, and it is not visible whatsoever- no "ghosting" or anything. I would imagine at 2x or less it would ghost a bit, but I don't know. YMMV

K. Foster
10-11-2012, 09:24
If you are looking for something for mostly bench shooting or shooting at distance, obviously the 8x would be an advantage. For close range and home defense the 1-4 would be better but the 2-8 will work in that role also. Honestly, for a do everything optic 2-8 is a good choice. I have a Weaver Euro 1.5-6 that’s been excellent.

JimBianchi
10-11-2012, 11:28
I have a Vortex 1-4 on my M4 using a Primary Arms one piece mount.

Rock solid and crystal clear scope.

Accurate to 250m all day.

Brian Lee
10-11-2012, 12:11
I was never into military type guns, but I have opinions about scopes for hunting.

On bolt action rifles I've found that unless your hunt is the kind where very long range shots are the only kind expected, too much magnification is more of a hinderance than a help. If you're expecting your hunting shots to be more like only 100 yards or so, then 4X is plenty. 8X will only make it harder to find the target in the scope fast enough since the field of view is so small. You'll certainly shoot better groups on paper with 8X, but that's mainly because paper doesn't move around while your just trying to get the thing visible in your scope.

Since you seem to be into combat weapons in addition to just the hunting thing, I'd choose the 1X to 4X variable as the best all around choice for a gun like the M4, and save the high magnification scopes for the sort of bolt action target rifles they were really intended for.

For close in combat situations, I can't help but think that I'd rather have that 1X option than to have 2X magnification as my lowest setting.

Cole125
10-11-2012, 20:18
In my opinion 1-4x is all you need.

Look into the Burris TAC30 or MTAC. Great value for the money, I'm sold on Burris products.

Midway is having a sale on the FDE version

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/460800/burris-fullfield-tac30-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-1-4x-24mm-1-2-moa-adjustments-illuminated-ballistic-cq-reticle-dark-earth

Drew Furst
10-11-2012, 23:44
I got the Nikon P223 3x32 fixed optic on my Noveske, and it is friggin incredible. I also have the fixed front sight post, and it is not visible whatsoever- no "ghosting" or anything. I would imagine at 2x or less it would ghost a bit, but I don't know. YMMV

I have been trying to get a couple of those scopes for the last 3 months! NOBODY has them! They look like the perfect unit for a lightweight carbine. 3 power is plenty for targets out to 300 yds. (with my eyes). 32 mm should gather plenty of light for any more-or-less daylight application.

So you are happy with yours? Did you find that the reticle was dialed in for the bullet drop?

Blade37db
10-12-2012, 06:09
I got the Nikon P223 3x32 fixed optic on my Noveske, and it is friggin incredible. I also have the fixed front sight post, and it is not visible whatsoever- no "ghosting" or anything. I would imagine at 2x or less it would ghost a bit, but I don't know. YMMV

+1 on this. Have one on my Stag. Furthest out I've uses it is 100 yards, but it's light and short compared to other scope options and it's only $150.

bman940
10-12-2012, 08:16
War, I think K. hit the nail on the head with his answer. While the Nikon M-223 1-4 Point Blank Reticle is one of my favorite scopes, I also think the M-223 2-8 will serve your needs better. The Rapid Action Turret will let you dial out your distance to 600 yards if need be. Granted, for my older eye's I like the the 3-12 for longer range shooting. At the lowest magnification on the 2-8 the front post should not be visable Tim. One of the really nice things about the 1-4 is that you zero 1 inch high at 100 yards and set the zero and you are 1 inch low at 200 yards. Big fun when shooting steel plates at different distances.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/KathyARPBR.jpg

ratf51
10-12-2012, 16:40
As stated in your other thread, I have the 2-8x M-223 with the Nikko-plex reticle. The 2x setting is what it stays on for the time being. As someone responded to my questions along the same line, "You move up only one power on the low side but an additional 4 power on the top (paraphrased)." I like the fact that if I have opportunity to shoot out further I can crank it up to 8x. The cost of the scope is gonna be below $400 and leave you room in your budget for whatever mount you want to go with. At 2x the front sight (on my 20" barrel) is visible but not a distraction to me. It is almost gone at 3x and at 4x it is fully out of the sight picture. I highly recommend the 2-8x. Go for it...

Addendum: The ocular is big. My Gen1 Magpul MBUS will not fit below it. If you put a BUIS on look for something that lays flat lower than a Magpul. Or use a higher/taller mount-- I have the one-piece M223 mount from Nikon.

Darkangel1846
10-13-2012, 12:54
2-8 sounds good

GSSF17
10-14-2012, 08:53
I have been trying to get a couple of those scopes for the last 3 months! NOBODY has them! They look like the perfect unit for a lightweight carbine. 3 power is plenty for targets out to 300 yds. (with my eyes). 32 mm should gather plenty of light for any more-or-less daylight application.

So you are happy with yours? Did you find that the reticle was dialed in for the bullet drop?

I am very happy. The scope is wonderful- got it from www.Opticsplanet.com (http://www.Opticsplanet.com) but had to wait a month due to backorder. That was about 7 months ago.

The BDC I am still getting used to, truthfully. I find with the 62 gr ammo I shoot, the BDC is accurate. I have only shot out to just shy of 200 yards, though.

Still, the best bang for the buck and a killer optic for the 75 to 200 yard shots.

copenhagen2001
10-14-2012, 09:43
I have been trying to get a couple of those scopes for the last 3 months! NOBODY has them! They look like the perfect unit for a lightweight carbine. 3 power is plenty for targets out to 300 yds. (with my eyes). 32 mm should gather plenty of light for any more-or-less daylight application.

So you are happy with yours? Did you find that the reticle was dialed in for the bullet drop?

I to have been looking for the NIKON 3x32...of all places, I found it at Walmart. Nobody, and I mean nobody had it, had any ideas when they were getting it. I scooped it up in a heart beat.

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vrex
10-15-2012, 01:50
on a carbine? 1-4 x

vafish
10-15-2012, 05:32
I was never into military type guns, but I have opinions about scopes for hunting.

On bolt action rifles I've found that unless your hunt is the kind where very long range shots are the only kind expected, too much magnification is more of a hinderance than a help. If you're expecting your hunting shots to be more like only 100 yards or so, then 4X is plenty. 8X will only make it harder to find the target in the scope fast enough since the field of view is so small. You'll certainly shoot better groups on paper with 8X, but that's mainly because paper doesn't move around while your just trying to get the thing visible in your scope.

Since you seem to be into combat weapons in addition to just the hunting thing, I'd choose the 1X to 4X variable as the best all around choice for a gun like the M4, and save the high magnification scopes for the sort of bolt action target rifles they were really intended for.

For close in combat situations, I can't help but think that I'd rather have that 1X option than to have 2X magnification as my lowest setting.

I agree.

I put an old Redfield 1-4x on my .25-223 deer hunting AR.

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cowboy1964
10-15-2012, 06:36
The scope bug is biting me bad. So much research to do. And I thought trying to decide between EoTech and Aimpoint was hard!

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/421244_The_variable__low_power_multipurpose_scope_review_thread.html

Drew Furst
10-15-2012, 10:24
I to have been looking for the NIKON 3x32...of all places, I found it at Walmart. Nobody, and I mean nobody had it, had any ideas when they were getting it. I scooped it up in a heart beat.

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Walmart? I would have never thought to look there! Gotta run to town.... Be right back. :wavey:

bman940
10-16-2012, 15:36
Tough choice, while similar they are quite different. I have never shot a round under the 3X Scope but I have put 1000's of rounds under the M-223 1-4 Point Blank Reticle. If I"m going somewhere to shoot stell inside of 200 yards it is my rifle of choice. Sighted in for 1 inch high at 100 yards I am 1 inch low at 200 yards. The center dot makes it easy to pick up a target and get a round off. I know down here in Tx. a lot of guy's are busting brush chasing hogs with that 3X carbine scope. Part of the reason I can't get my hands on one, to many guy's want one. Make sure you check out Spot On for the 3X and the P-Series Mounts which work great in this compact Scope. In case you didn't know, the M-223 is built on the MONARCH platform and the P-Series of scopes are built on the PROSTAFF platform.
Drop me a note with any question's.

rjinaz85308
10-16-2012, 15:42
Depends on your use. As I have gotten older the extent of my hunting is prairie dogs. At 200 yds I really appreciate my 4x16. Vortex makes a great scope for the money


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copenhagen2001
10-16-2012, 17:00
Walmart? I would have never thought to look there! Gotta run to town.... Be right back. :wavey:

I was down there this weekend, they had another one behind the counter.

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Ruggles
10-16-2012, 18:46
I have the Nikon M223 1x4 and the P223 3x scopes. Both very good scopes IMO. When I bought the P223 it was when Nikon was giving away the P-Series mounts for free when you purchased the scope. Main reason I bought it, just a great deal with the free mount. I doubt I ever mount it for use, dang impulse buys! :(

I bought the M-223 scope mount outright. Both mounts are very nice as well.

I am not crazy about the fixed 3x magnification, I prefer the variable 1x4 scope myself. It's a personal thing more than anything else, my eyes just do better with the 1x4 (set at 1x) for anything up close. I have mounted but never shot with the P223.

TangoFoxtrot
10-17-2012, 03:43
I am leaning heavy towards putting a variable scope on my 2nd M4. The other has an Aimpoint. This M4 will be used to do some hunting as well as pretty much every other type of shooting. I like the Nikons 223's so far. They are designed around the 55grain ammo that I shoot a ton of. I have about a 5 or 600 budget for the optic and mounts. I can't decide whether to get a 1x4 or a 2x8 to put on the M4. I am leaning hard towards the 2x8, but I'm sure a 1x4 would be great as well. Opinions please?


I'd go 1x4 thats best suited for an M4 IMHO.

Matthew Courtney
10-17-2012, 04:44
The more I shoot my 2-7x30 Leupold scopes, the more I believe that they are truly the bees knees. From 6 feet to 600 yards they just plain work!

Matthew Courtney
10-17-2012, 05:03
Tough choice, while similar they are quite different. I have never shot a round under the 3X Scope but I have put 1000's of rounds under the M-223 1-4 Point Blank Reticle. If I"m going somewhere to shoot stell inside of 200 yards it is my rifle of choice. Sighted in for 1 inch high at 100 yards I am 1 inch low at 200 yards. The center dot makes it easy to pick up a target and get a round off. I know down here in Tx. a lot of guy's are busting brush chasing hogs with that 3X carbine scope. Part of the reason I can't get my hands on one, to many guy's want one. Make sure you check out Spot On for the 3X and the P-Series Mounts which work great in this compact Scope. In case you didn't know, the M-223 is built on the MONARCH platform and the P-Series of scopes are built on the PROSTAFF platform.
Drop me a note with any question's.

Important to note that the trajectory described works for 75-77 grain bullets. 1" high at 100 yards with something like a 50 gr Vmax would still be about .6" high at 200 yards, assuming the standard AR optic height over bore of 2.6 inches. Peak projectile rise over line of sight would be about 1.4 inch at 140 yards with zeroes at 60 yards and 220 yards.

Clutch Cargo
10-17-2012, 05:41
I've got an EOtech 512 and plan on a 3x magnifier for it.

Unk
10-17-2012, 14:00
Have a Millett 1-4X DMS 26 mm on my M4gery. Works for me, illuminated reticle [doughnut hole] is fast on target acquisitions..center in the doughnut hole, squeeze..next.

bman940
10-20-2012, 10:06
It's like anything you want to buy, do your research, then go look down the tubes of the ones you are interested in buying.I did the same thing with my carry gun. Asked a ton of question's, looked at a dozen pistols and even though I was not a glock fan at the time, checked them out as well. Wouldn't you know it, I liked the 22 and 23, got a freind to take me to the range to shoot his and bought both! Some times you have to a hve an open mind. I go through that all the time with guy's who are dead set against trying Nikon's BDC reticle scopes. I understand if you aren't familiar with them, but check them out, check out Spot On and if you can, get behind one. I have not taken one person to the range to try my BDC scopes who hasn't become a convert. An open mind is a wonderful thing.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/Screenshot2012-10-17at34248PM.png

ithaca_deerslayer
10-22-2012, 20:39
I was never into military type guns, but I have opinions about scopes for hunting.

On bolt action rifles I've found that unless your hunt is the kind where very long range shots are the only kind expected, too much magnification is more of a hinderance than a help. If you're expecting your hunting shots to be more like only 100 yards or so, then 4X is plenty. 8X will only make it harder to find the target in the scope fast enough since the field of view is so small. You'll certainly shoot better groups on paper with 8X, but that's mainly because paper doesn't move around while your just trying to get the thing visible in your scope.

Since you seem to be into combat weapons in addition to just the hunting thing, I'd choose the 1X to 4X variable as the best all around choice for a gun like the M4, and save the high magnification scopes for the sort of bolt action target rifles they were really intended for.

For close in combat situations, I can't help but think that I'd rather have that 1X option than to have 2X magnification as my lowest setting.

I agree. I'm just a hunter and range commando, but this advice seems spot on.

I remember hunting with a scoped pistol fixed 2.5x. A deer came trotting under my tree stand and I couldn't keep up with it to get centered in my scope. End of season, I took the scope off and put on a red dot. I've shot deer before with iron sighted pistol, but had wanted a longer range option. While a rifle scope is closer to your eye than a pistol scope, and therefore has a larger field of view, when animals are real close into you, any magnification is a hinderance.

But at the range, sitting on at a bench, sure it is fun zooming in on a target.

In hunting situations, 3x is plenty for woods type stuff. Was sitting on a stump once, and had a buck trot up to me and stop and look at me. No movement, I'm not here, you can't see me. Then he starts to walk up the hill a bit. Let him go far enough, then quietly raise and click safety off and BOOM dropped right there. All at 3x, even though the scope goes up to 9x, which I definitely would not had wanted it to be set at in that situation.

If I was on the edge of a field, hunting woodchucks at 100 yards or more, then sure, zoom in to 8x, 9x, 12x, 16x, whatever you got, as long as you have time and can hold steady.

On my slug gun, I use a 1.5-4.5x. I walk around with it on 1.5x to trip across bedded deer.

faawrenchbndr
10-23-2012, 02:26
1-4 works for me! I have a 1.5-4 Leupold on one of my Carbines.
Works from 10m all the way out to 300m on torso size targets.
Field of vision is superior to a "hunting" scope

cowboy1964
10-23-2012, 10:16
1-4 works for me! I have a 1.5-4 Leupold on one of my Carbines.
Works from 10m all the way out to 300m on torso size targets.


Iron sights are good to 300 meters when you're talking torso targets, for crying out loud! I'm sure a 4x scope is easier but you get my point.

faawrenchbndr
10-23-2012, 14:08
Iron sights are good to 300 meters when you're talking torso targets, for crying out loud! I'm sure a 4x scope is easier but you get my point.


I'm gettin old,.......rear sight can be a biOTch to pick up at times.:embarassed: