Texas schools use rfid chips to track students [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dalton Wayne
10-11-2012, 20:57
Texas schools punish students who refuse to be tracked with microchips


In Texas Radio Frequency Identification chips are being implemented into San Antonio area schools IDs. The reason for the RFID chipped IDs is to curb the truancy problem in the Northside ISD. School officials claim knowing where every student is at all times will significantly reduced the number of truancy cases,but one student refused to participate and said the mandatory program was against her religion and claimed the RFID chip was the "mark of the beast.

Whats your thoughts on this???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCEtaEODg28&feature=player_embedded#!

JLB768
10-11-2012, 21:05
I wouldn't allow my children, or myself to be chipped.

Dalton Wayne
10-11-2012, 21:10
It's in their ID cards and If my kids were young enough to be in those schools I would have a big problem with this.
Where do we draw the line......

tmerritt530
10-11-2012, 21:11
I would leave my id at home every day to waste their time looking for me.

Dalton Wayne
10-11-2012, 21:13
knowing where every student is at all times

Bull**** it's none of their business knowing where my kids are at all times!

Dalton Wayne
10-11-2012, 21:15
I would leave my id at home every day to waste their time looking for me.

I would assume without your ID you could not get past the front door.

aplcr0331
10-11-2012, 21:15
You obviously can't raise your children on your own. As the teachers will always tell you, the parents don't care and basically let kids roam around the city all day and night without food or clothes. The teacher's really care about the children and know better than you do about raising your kids. I don't see a problem with this. Have it, they know better than us.

davew83
10-11-2012, 21:19
knowing where every student is at all times

Bull**** it's none of their business knowing where my kids are at all times!




Only tracks them on school property. RFID chips have a very very limited range 10 feet tops. They read when you pass through a sensor (think any retail store). They can be easily fooled by going through a window that doesn't have a sensor on it or simply taking the ID and leaving in the locker.

Gun Shark
10-11-2012, 21:20
I view it as an invasion of privacy. The only people who should be able to do that without a warrant(or exigent circumstances) are parents. And only under the age of 18.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Dalton Wayne
10-11-2012, 21:23
Only tracks them on school property. RFID chips have a very very limited range 10 feet tops. They read when you pass through a sensor (think any retail store). They can be easily fooled by going through a window that doesn't have a sensor on it or simply taking the ID and leaving in the locker.
Did you watch the video it a GPS tracking chip they can track you in and out of school.

nursetim
10-11-2012, 21:26
Those chips are not GPS and not implanted. So it is no different than having it in you ID, so my answer is. MEH

Hurricanes
10-11-2012, 21:26
My thoughts, it's BS. This is how it all starts. Next it will be to inject your kids with one incase they are kidnapped or lost. When will it end? We are giving up our freedoms for the sake of security. It should've never gone this far.
-Joel

Dalton Wayne
10-11-2012, 21:36
My thoughts, it's BS. This is how it all starts. Next it will be to inject your kids with one incase they are kidnapped or lost. When will it end? We are giving up our freedoms for the sake of security. It should've never gone this far.
-Joel
:thumbsup: give em an inch they will take a mile this is just the beginning

HarlDane
10-11-2012, 21:39
Did you watch the video it a GPS tracking chip they can track you in and out of school.RFID is not GPS.

AK_Stick
10-11-2012, 21:40
Did you watch the video it a GPS tracking chip they can track you in and out of school.



Sorry, but that simply isn't how RFID's work.


I work with really high power RFID's with their own batterys when I ship helicopters and equipment across the country/world, and mine are only good for a few dozen feet. There is no way that a RFID will let you track kids, outside of school.


Just doesn't work like that.


They were talking about multiple systems, like the GPS in issued computers. Those can be tracked outside of school. The RFID's in ID's can not.

HarlDane
10-11-2012, 21:48
I view it as an invasion of privacy. The only people who should be able to do that without a warrant(or exigent circumstances) are parents. And only under the age of 18.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engineWhy would a warrant be required to electronically count students as they walk in or out the door of the school?

rednoved
10-11-2012, 22:14
I don't see the problem. If it only keeps track of the RFIDs in the school, how could that possibly be bad? It's like an automated roll call for the class rooms, and can be used to identify when students are coming and going from the school exits. How is that anymore of an invasion of privacy than having security cameras in the school?

Would someone explain how exactly this violates their rights?

F14Scott
10-11-2012, 22:20
Do they not know that 2 seconds in the microwave will fry the circuitry in the chip while leaving the card (or the passport) intact?

nursetim
10-11-2012, 22:29
Yeah but in a passport it leaves a burn, or so I've heard. :whistling:

certifiedfunds
10-11-2012, 22:40
I actually have no issue with this. Sounds like a good idea.

MadMonkey
10-11-2012, 22:51
Everybody panic. Again. *sigh*

HollowHead
10-11-2012, 23:31
Has anyone heard of this, "fluoridation" thing being proposed? HH

JW1178
10-11-2012, 23:48
This is not implanting a chip, or for that matter a GPS unit. When we come to that, it's time for the STHF.

Glock&KimberLady
10-12-2012, 00:08
Hrm. My ass. Kiss it.

Oh, wait. I homeschool, so I don't have to worry about this malarkey.

HollowHead
10-12-2012, 00:22
When I was a freshman in college in 1978, freshmen had to live on campus and use the meal plan and our IDs had magnetic strips that were swiped when entering the dining hall to keep us to three feedings a day. We also needed to swipe when checking out a book at the library, use the pool, and drink at the Rathskeller to prove we were eighteen and also to enter the dorms. The difference? HH

Smacktard
10-12-2012, 02:57
One day we will have a king and you will do as you are told.


...

UtahIrishman
10-12-2012, 03:44
One day we will have a king and you will do as you are told.


...

Haven't you heard? We already have one (several actually)

mace85
10-12-2012, 04:19
Really? This is a technology that simply takes attendance. Students have no right to privacy in school anyway. It will simply say little Johnny showed up today.

This whole thing came up due to truancy issues. In other words parents who didn't know or didn't care where their kids were during school hours.

These are the same people who would sue the school district if their kid got hit by a car while they were ditching class. That's another great reason to track the students.

Really what rights are getting trampled here? It's not like the government is putting RFID transponders every ten feet through the entire country to track citizens. I swear every time use of technology paid for by public funds comes up the conspiracy theories pop up here.

Bren
10-12-2012, 04:30
Only tracks them on school property. RFID chips have a very very limited range 10 feet tops. They read when you pass through a sensor (think any retail store). They can be easily fooled by going through a window that doesn't have a sensor on it or simply taking the ID and leaving in the locker.

I'd figure you just give your ID to a student who will be in school all day, so they have you on the records. Especially after the teacher's quit watching attendance, because they have RFID, these things become the EASY way to skip school. I say that as somebody who used to spend a lot of time skipping school and driving around town throwing beer cans out the car windows.

Gallium
10-12-2012, 04:47
As with most things in the USA, this has little to do with anything except MONEY.


It's a means to get kids in class = more federal funding.


In 10 years they will be using this data to give marketers a better concept of how to sell crap. Note, they may not use the kids as targets of marketing, but they can use the data from the kids' movements to figure out how/where/when kids agglutinate...they could figure out when females are menstruating, how often they cycle thru pads/tampons, how often kids hit snack machines.

And of course, with school buses now sporting ads on them, and school gyms now with "sponsored" ads there (oh no, that will NEVER happen, they said 24 years ago), it's only a matter of "how long" before full blown ads are deep into schools - and where ads go, the business of gathering data is lock step.

DanaT
10-12-2012, 04:57
This is not implanting a chip, or for that matter a GPS unit. When we come to that, it's time for the STHF.

And just how will you know if it happening?

Almost every active implantable implant made is using RF communication.

Since RF communication is already in the devices, exactly how hard do you think it is to read the information?

Each one has a unique Electronic serial number that can be read out. That serial number is assigned to a patient. Now that the govt is more involved in health care, how hard is it for the govt to get the information?

It is interesting, but why do you think the DofD and other agencies fund some research into implantable devices.

skinny99
10-12-2012, 07:37
When I was a freshman in college in 1978, freshmen had to live on campus and use the meal plan and our IDs had magnetic strips that were swiped when entering the dining hall to keep us to three feedings a day. We also needed to swipe when checking out a book at the library, use the pool, and drink at the Rathskeller to prove we were eighteen and also to enter the dorms. The difference? HH

I think there is a huge difference. In your case you picked the school, looked at the terms and conditions of entrance and decided you wanted to go and paid them.

In the situation of a public school, you have no choice which public school you go to, your kids have to have some sort of schooling and you have to pay no matter what choice you make. I think adds up to a big difference.

No shot of me or my kid wearing a tracking device, especially at a gov't run facility. I am aware that these tracking badges have a very small area of effectiveness but what happens next year when they can expand the coverage easily and cheaply? They will just hand your child a new badge that covers the whole city. Won't even tell you.

This is how it starts. It will only get worse. This is a product of the pussification of America. We refuse to discipline our kids and raise them in an overprotective environment and wonder why the end up spoiled and with this feeling of entitlement. :dunno:

It is not only OK for kids to fail and get injured, it is necessary. Parents have to pay attention and be held responsible if their kids don't go to school. This situation is not that hard.

HarlDane
10-12-2012, 09:02
I think there is a huge difference. In your case you picked the school, looked at the terms and conditions of entrance and decided you wanted to go and paid them.

In the situation of a public school, you have no choice which public school you go to, your kids have to have some sort of schooling and you have to pay no matter what choice you make. I think adds up to a big difference.

No shot of me or my kid wearing a tracking device, especially at a gov't run facility. I am aware that these tracking badges have a very small area of effectiveness but what happens next year when they can expand the coverage easily and cheaply? They will just hand your child a new badge that covers the whole city. Won't even tell you.

This is how it starts. It will only get worse. This is a product of the pussification of America. We refuse to discipline our kids and raise them in an overprotective environment and wonder why the end up spoiled and with this feeling of entitlement. :dunno:

It is not only OK for kids to fail and get injured, it is necessary. Parents have to pay attention and be held responsible if their kids don't go to school. This situation is not that hard.It's not a tracking device. It doesn't reveal the location of the child, even on school grounds. It simply counts students as they pass by a scanner on their way in or out of the school. This allows schools to quickly identify truants without waiting for each teacher to take roll, fill out an attendance form, submit it to the office and then compiling a list of who didn't show up.

nmk
10-12-2012, 09:35
Sounds like some people in this thread have no idea how RFID works. I'll panic about something else today.

rednoved
10-12-2012, 10:11
http://youtu.be/-s8phzMqpJ0






:whistling:

aircarver
10-12-2012, 11:33
Put card in RFID metal sheath- problem solved.

.

skinny99
10-12-2012, 11:39
It's not a tracking device. It doesn't reveal the location of the child, even on school grounds. It simply counts students as they pass by a scanner on their way in or out of the school. This allows schools to quickly identify truants without waiting for each teacher to take roll, fill out an attendance form, submit it to the office and then compiling a list of who didn't show up.

Did you even read my post? I am aware that they only work near the scanners. But like most things it is just a jumping off point. We are all victims of the philosophy that if a little is good then a lot must be better. So if this works fine the next step will be to know where the kids are all the time. So they will expand the scope and range of the tracking device, most likely it won't be RFID based. I will bet there is a tracking device that is small enough to accomplish this goal now.

jtull7
10-12-2012, 11:44
Here is my college ID from my senior year. No chips there. As you can see, they still used hole-punches in those far-away days.

And, it was THE Texas school: The University of Texas at Austin.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t107/jtull8/id.jpg

lunarspeak
10-12-2012, 12:04
you have to remember,everyone on GT have angels for kids.
and they would never skip class...or smoke in the bathroom..and they will also not have sex untill thier married :tongueout:

nursetim
10-12-2012, 12:10
So why can't Johnny give mikey his ID and skip school? Sounds like a grand plan to me. This should work out great for the school system. As to the little girl, it sounds like she would be better off, as most children, home schooled.

stevelyn
10-12-2012, 12:35
If only Texas were as free as Texans think it is.

Hauptmann6
10-12-2012, 12:41
Has anyone heard of this, "fluoridation" thing being proposed? HH

I will not allow the hardcore communists to pollute my precious bodily fluids.

AK_Stick
10-12-2012, 12:59
No shot of me or my kid wearing a tracking device, especially at a gov't run facility. I am aware that these tracking badges have a very small area of effectiveness but what happens next year when they can expand the coverage easily and cheaply? They will just hand your child a new badge that covers the whole city. Won't even tell you.



Hahahahah.


Don't buy a new phone, don't drive a new car, don't get a new passport etc.



You're making a huge fuss, and a conspiracy out of nothing.

DaneA
10-12-2012, 13:11
I know how to end this thread. At least for a day or so.



















There is a sale on tin foil at Walmart.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

certifiedfunds
10-12-2012, 13:16
I think there is a huge difference. In your case you picked the school, looked at the terms and conditions of entrance and decided you wanted to go and paid them.

In the situation of a public school, you have no choice which public school you go to, your kids have to have some sort of schooling and you have to pay no matter what choice you make. I think adds up to a big difference.

No shot of me or my kid wearing a tracking device, especially at a gov't run facility. I am aware that these tracking badges have a very small area of effectiveness but what happens next year when they can expand the coverage easily and cheaply? They will just hand your child a new badge that covers the whole city. Won't even tell you.

This is how it starts. It will only get worse. This is a product of the pussification of America. We refuse to discipline our kids and raise them in an overprotective environment and wonder why the end up spoiled and with this feeling of entitlement. :dunno:

It is not only OK for kids to fail and get injured, it is necessary. Parents have to pay attention and be held responsible if their kids don't go to school. This situation is not that hard.

Baloney. Send the kid to private school.

tmerritt530
10-12-2012, 13:49
I would assume without your ID you could not get past the front door.

I did not think that way. I grew up in a different environment. No ID's no metal detectors, no problems.

Also it would take a long time to scan every ID every morning. Would they really do that? I honestly don't know.

HarlDane
10-12-2012, 13:50
Did you even read my post? I am aware that they only work near the scanners. But like most things it is just a jumping off point. We are all victims of the philosophy that if a little is good then a lot must be better. So if this works fine the next step will be to know where the kids are all the time. So they will expand the scope and range of the tracking device, most likely it won't be RFID based. I will bet there is a tracking device that is small enough to accomplish this goal now.I have a hard time buying your slippery slope argument when electronically taking roll and tracking devices aren't in the same mountain range, let alone the same slope.

The information being taken and recorded is no different than the attendance teachers have taken in classrooms forever, it's just done more efficiently and effectively so that more time can be spent on things like actually teaching children.

skinny99
10-12-2012, 14:33
Baloney. Send the kid to private school.

My little girl will go to private school. But I get to pay for those badges for the dregs of society that go to public school.

skinny99
10-12-2012, 14:38
I have a hard time buying your slippery slope argument when electronically taking roll and tracking devices aren't in the same mountain range, let alone the same slope.

The information being taken and recorded is no different than the attendance teachers have taken in classrooms forever, it's just done more efficiently and effectively so that more time can be spent on things like actually teaching children.


Yes because as a society we have never fallen down a slippery slope! :whistling::upeyes:

Look at how are attitudes have changed on so many things over the last twenty years. Things that used to be completely taboo are socially excepted norms now. We have to stop it before it starts. "A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step".

skinny99
10-12-2012, 14:42
Hahahahah.


Don't buy a new phone, don't drive a new car, don't get a new passport etc.



You're making a huge fuss, and a conspiracy out of nothing.

I ain't making any fuss. I am typing on the internet. :yawn:

But I will say this I used to be an optimist and believe that no one would ever dream to challenge our freedoms. Then I woke up and it was 2010. :faint: I now am a realist. :wavey:

redbaron007
10-12-2012, 14:50
:whistling:

Another big tadoo about nothing. :yawn:

lack of knowledge and tin foil = paranoia

:wavey:

red

HarlDane
10-12-2012, 14:52
Yes because as a society we have never fallen down a slippery slope! :whistling::upeyes:

Look at how are attitudes have changed on so many things over the last twenty years. Things that used to be completely taboo are socially excepted norms now. We have to stop it before it starts. "A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step".
What does that have to do with what is currently going on?

Schools have found an new and efficient way to take roll using ID cards the students already have combined with some simple, harmless technology. There is no logical connection between that and any of the concerns you and others have raised about tracking and privacy issues. To put it quite simply, there is no slope to slide down on this specific issue.

skinny99
10-12-2012, 14:59
What does that have to do with what is currently going on?

Schools have found an new and efficient way to take roll using ID cards the students already have combined with some simple, harmless technology. There is no logical connection between that and any of the concerns you and others have raised about tracking and privacy issues. To put it quite simply, there is no slope to slide down on this specific issue.

You really can't see how easy it would be to transition into a true tracking device?

HarlDane
10-12-2012, 15:13
You really can't see how easy it would be to transition into a true tracking device?It would be no easier than transitioning from a student ID without RFID into a tracking device.

RFID is really no different than a UPC code or a magnetic strip, except the scanner used to read it can be a few feet away instead of needing to be within a few inches or in direct contact. This is really no different than a student swiping a card as they come in the door.

I'm not sure how you can make the logical step from the above,to a full scale tracking system that would require extensive infrastructure and powered tracking devices, not to mention the approval of parents.

UtahIrishman
10-12-2012, 21:51
I will not allow the hardcore communists to pollute my precious bodily fluids.

Mr. President we have a mine shaft gap :supergrin:

droidfire
10-13-2012, 02:59
It would be no easier than transitioning from a student ID without RFID into a tracking device.

RFID is really no different than a UPC code or a magnetic strip, except the scanner used to read it can be a few feet away instead of needing to be within a few inches or in direct contact. This is really no different than a student swiping a card as they come in the door.

I'm not sure how you can make the logical step from the above,to a full scale tracking system that would require extensive infrastructure and powered tracking devices, not to mention the approval of parents.

Bolded statement is factually incorrect, as it is very different.

The idea of identity theft is of large concern when the information ceases to be input due to manual, deliberate interaction from the end user.

Now you are talking about info being captured from a distance - short though it may be - don't rule out the availability of capture tech and ingenuity of it's use.

Smart phones are into rfid tech now. With the right little pocket computer people still think of as just a phone, you can not only capture all the info, but also reprogram some of these things if not write protected.

Yea, fake id's are much easier to make now - I could see having the whole schools attendance perfect from one backpack full of tags walked through a scanner.

Pranks be a lot easier too - start showing up with tags that delete entries, change the date of the roll call, or whatever commands you can get away with in the roll system. The tag is the insertion, and you can run a chain of commands from a chain of tags.

But back to the id theft issue - students (read: not adults) being saddled with the maturity and responsibility of making sure their id isn't broadcasting while outside school hours/grounds is silly.

So the student with their id in their backpack on the bus who gets the info read by some predator with a pocket scanner gives the scumbag what information exactly?

On the doom and gloom worst case scenario list includes the increased ease of kidnapping...

"Hey johnny, your mom sent me to pick you up today. I'm uncle Denny, nice to meet you! Your taller then she made you out to be!"

Sure sure, lets issue a small metal container to keep it in (they can be real lightweight and barely noticable - not much different then those little paper envelopes you get for a gift card...) but can students reasonably be held accountable for keeping the id with the case - survey says yes on paper, no in reality.

Saddling students with a means of broadcasting their identity to anyone who wants to capture it at any time anywhere is too much in my opinion.

An id you actively swipe as you walk through a door? Fine, no problem.

An id that tells the world who I am if they but listen? ...

Badger54
10-13-2012, 03:54
A lot of places I have worked have RFID chips installed in there ID badges. Mainly to unlock doors but they can also be used for tracking purposes while on site.

certifiedfunds
10-13-2012, 07:25
My little girl will go to private school. But I get to pay for those badges for the dregs of society that go to public school.

Based on what I've seen of public schools, it is a small investment to help make sure some of those kids are inside the wire at least a few hours a day.

jtmac
10-13-2012, 08:22
Sorry, but that simply isn't how RFID's work.

I work with really high power RFID's with their own batterys when I ship helicopters and equipment across the country/world, and mine are only good for a few dozen feet. There is no way that a RFID will let you track kids, outside of school.

Just doesn't work like that.

They were talking about multiple systems, like the GPS in issued computers. Those can be tracked outside of school. The RFID's in ID's can not.

A few dozen feet is more than enough to be a problem. Would YOU feel secure walking around town carrying around a card that will respond to requests to broadcast a unique identifier? This is waiting to be exploited.

The issue to security worries is aluminum foil.

But security issues are a completely separate matter from the school spending a fortune it doesn't have in order to solve a problem that the technology isn't capable of solving. (And wait until the kids figure out that they can just let someone else carry their card!)

HarlDane
10-13-2012, 09:14
Bolded statement is factually incorrect, as it is very different.

The idea of identity theft is of large concern when the information ceases to be input due to manual, deliberate interaction from the end user.

Now you are talking about info being captured from a distance - short though it may be - don't rule out the availability of capture tech and ingenuity of it's use.

Smart phones are into rfid tech now. With the right little pocket computer people still think of as just a phone, you can not only capture all the info, but also reprogram some of these things if not write protected.

Yea, fake id's are much easier to make now - I could see having the whole schools attendance perfect from one backpack full of tags walked through a scanner.

Pranks be a lot easier too - start showing up with tags that delete entries, change the date of the roll call, or whatever commands you can get away with in the roll system. The tag is the insertion, and you can run a chain of commands from a chain of tags.

But back to the id theft issue - students (read: not adults) being saddled with the maturity and responsibility of making sure their id isn't broadcasting while outside school hours/grounds is silly.

So the student with their id in their backpack on the bus who gets the info read by some predator with a pocket scanner gives the scumbag what information exactly?

On the doom and gloom worst case scenario list includes the increased ease of kidnapping...

"Hey johnny, your mom sent me to pick you up today. I'm uncle Denny, nice to meet you! Your taller then she made you out to be!"

Sure sure, lets issue a small metal container to keep it in (they can be real lightweight and barely noticable - not much different then those little paper envelopes you get for a gift card...) but can students reasonably be held accountable for keeping the id with the case - survey says yes on paper, no in reality.

Saddling students with a means of broadcasting their identity to anyone who wants to capture it at any time anywhere is too much in my opinion.

An id you actively swipe as you walk through a door? Fine, no problem.

An id that tells the world who I am if they but listen? ...Your concerns are completely overblown and can be addressed with simple, common sense precautions. With something as simple as a student ID that only needs to be read by one organization, the information contained on the card can be limited to a simple ID number which is useless without the schools secure database.

jpa
10-13-2012, 09:28
A lot of places I have worked have RFID chips installed in there ID badges. Mainly to unlock doors but they can also be used for tracking purposes while on site.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Apparently nobody on GT works in an office building or a secure facility.

Basically the ID cards are going to be something like this:

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00zvUQjKTtadqH/125KHz-ID-Card-Lf-Smart-Card-RFID-Cards.jpg

Much ado about nothing.

HarlDane
10-13-2012, 09:48
A few dozen feet is more than enough to be a problem. Would YOU feel secure walking around town carrying around a card that will respond to requests to broadcast a unique identifier? This is waiting to be exploited.

The issue to security worries is aluminum foil.

But security issues are a completely separate matter from the school spending a fortune it doesn't have in order to solve a problem that the technology isn't capable of solving. (And wait until the kids figure out that they can just let someone else carry their card!)Having a reader in the doorway of each classroom would make it pretty complicated for a HS student with 6 different classes a day to coordinate his buddies passing his card around, not to mention the teacher would pick up on those abusing the system fairly quickly. This technology doesn't solve the problem of truancy, it simply makes taking roll easier and faster which allows schools to combat the problem more effectively and spend more time on instruction.

inthefrey
01-14-2013, 19:45
**UPDATE ON THIS THREAD**

Judge finally rules on 'Mark of the Beast'
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/judge-finally-rules-on-mark-of-the-beast/#fudUsGkE5JtPRLGr.99