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arnettjd10
10-12-2012, 16:14
I have been debating on getting a pistol in 357 Sig, i really like the 9mm and this round is like a 9mm on steroids. But i sit down and watched Tnoutdoors9 tests and wrote down all the results. After going back and looking at them i found that 357 Sig 125 gr had a velocity of about 1,336 fps with about 14.50in of penatration. The Underwood 9mm +P+ 124 gr shot at 1,298 fps with about 13.25in of penatration. So now im thinking that with the high cost of 357 Sig ammo and barely better performance over the 9mm that i would be crazy to buy a handgun in 357 Sig, not to mention the reduced round magazine capacity. But i know to achieve the results of the 9mm test i am pretty much limited to Underwood ammo. (all of the tests on this ammo that i have seen has been great!) So my questions are: I want everybodys opinion on Underwood ammo and why would people buy a gun in 357 Sig when u can get pretty much the same results with cheaper ammo and more magazine capacity with the 9mm?

fredj338
10-12-2012, 16:24
I would never want to rely on a boutique ammo manuf for my carry rounds, That is just me, but if it doesn't come from one of the majors, I am likely not going there. So yes, there are a few +P or +P + loads that are close to 357sig, but they are not cheap compared to 357sig, often cost more. Round count, depends. In Kommifornia, I get 10+1, regardless fo caliber, so round count is pretty moot. I would go 357sig over 9mm in the same platforms. I like the 357sig, shoot it as well as 9mm+P+ so I'll take the extra 75-100fps. In smaller compact or subcompact, I choose the 9mm in a +P laoding. Cost of ammo doesn;t matter to me as I relaod all my practice stuff & 357sig loads for the same cost as 9mm+P.

robhic
10-12-2012, 16:44
As Fred says above, unless the ammo has "street cred" it's probably better to not use it for CCW.

That said, I have had good results from Underwood ammo and many others have, too. But it hasn't "paid its dues" in LEO guns, etc. The final decision is up to you.

unit1069
10-12-2012, 17:35
I've settled on two self-defense calibers, the 9mm and .357sig. If I had to choose only one it would be the .357sig because of its greater overall range and application. Like fred mentioned it's a disadvantage to rely on a single boutique ammo company's supply for your ammo needs.

There is a greater supply of effective 9mm self-defense ammo but where the 9mm is pushing the envelope for that caliber the standard, run-of-the-mill .357sig self-defense rounds aren't even breathing hard.

I carry my 9mm pistols more frequently than my .357sig because of their easier CCW conceal ability, not for their semi-equivalent effectiveness. If you do end up with a .357sig pistol I do think you'll appreciate the fine distinction between the two calibers while acknowledging the worth of both.

PrecisionRifleman
10-12-2012, 18:31
With a 125gr bullet in the 357Sig case you should be able to get 1400fps from a full size Glock. That's a respectable difference between a 124gr in a 9mm casing moving at 1200-1250fps. I'm going to have to pick up a G32 barrel for my G23.

cowboy1964
10-12-2012, 20:31
.357 Sig is still faster.

Also, are you going to be able to replicate the shooting characteristics of this ammo with your practice ammo? And is this stuff going to be hard on the gun?

uz2bUSMC
10-12-2012, 20:34
If you go with the Glock platform, why not get the .357 sig and by a 9mm conversion setup in 9mm. Shoot more often in 9mm and save some change, shoot more sparingly in .357 sig to maintain proficiency. Practice with 9 carry .357.

The .357 is far from being out of breath as far as popularity is concerned, more choices may be on the horizon. That being said, Underwood may grow, giving more confidence as a supplier. He may never be as big as the big three (or care to be) but being a mainstay such as Corbon or BB is a strong possibility.

Getting the Glock platform in .357 is your "cake and eating it too" scenario once you have the conversion in 9mm.

avenues165
10-12-2012, 20:53
Underwood 9mm +p+ 124gr = 1,298fps
New Underwood 357 sig 125gr = 1,475fps (as stated by Underwood on GT, not tested yet by TNOutdoors9)

The rounds tested by TNOutdoors9 for 357 sig are all loads from the bigger guys that don't make hotter 357sig loads(Federal, Remington, Speer, hornady).

Let's compare apples to apples.

Having said all of that, the 9mm is a fine cartridge and would serve you well.

SDDL-UP
10-13-2012, 00:09
I'm just not a fan of the 357 Sig. Just not.

For decades people wanted SOMETHING between 9mm and 45 ACP - give them the 10mm Auto and 40 S&W, but they're not happy. So what's the next GREAT thing? Neck down the 40 S&W so we can have the reduced magazine capacity of the 40 S&W with the smaller bullet of the 9mm - OUTSTANDING! Really? Aren't we kind of re-inventing the wheel? 38 Super Comp seems like a better solution - just because of magazine capacity.

It just seems a bit odd.

Now that said... the 357 Sig is a fine round. Nothing WRONG with it. The thing that makes me "not a fan" is there is a lot of hype about it - "flat shooting", "unbelievable manstopper", etc.

With proper bullet selection there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Shot placement with any of them will get the job done. Each caliber has advantages and DISADVANTAGES. Choose any caliber you want, but understand your decision has compromises.

9mm +p+
10-13-2012, 02:02
Boutique ammo? How about Federal they started out small or corbon or any of the other smaller mfg's with a good rep? I run Underwoods 124 +p+ load and have fired quite a bit in my 19 and 26 and it has been flawless and quite accurate to boot, Is it s a 357 sig? Nope but the 357 sig is not a 357 mag either. A warm 9 midweight will handle just about anything that I'm likely to get into it with.

cowboy1964
10-13-2012, 09:37
Is it s a 357 sig? Nope but the 357 sig is not a 357 mag either

Actually it's about exactly equal to a 125gr .357 Magnum from a 3" revolver.

avenues165
10-13-2012, 12:30
Boutique ammo? How about Federal they started out small or corbon or any of the other smaller mfg's with a good rep? I run Underwoods 124 +p+ load and have fired quite a bit in my 19 and 26 and it has been flawless and quite accurate to boot, Is it s a 357 sig? Nope but the 357 sig is not a 357 mag either. A warm 9 midweight will handle just about anything that I'm likely to get into it with.

A good 9mm load will be a great SD round, no question about it. If I was using a 9mm I would probably use a 124gr +p or +p+.

I like the 357, but there is nothing wrong with the 9mm. In fact, the 9mm has some advantages: additional rounds in the mag, cheaper range shooting, less recoil, less wear on pistols, etc.

I prefer the 357, but I would never get down on the selection of a 9mm. But I do feel to call them the same isn't accurate, as stated in the post I quoted. Different options are wonderful, long live the 9mm, .40S&W, 357sig, .45 gap, .45acp, 10mm, etc!!!!

How's that for diplomacy and peace makin'? :rofl:

unit1069
10-13-2012, 13:47
A good 9mm load will be a great SD round, no question about it. If I was using a 9mm I would probably use a 124gr +p or +p+.

I like the 357, but there is nothing wrong with the 9mm. In fact, the 9mm has some advantages: additional rounds in the mag, cheaper range shooting, less recoil, less wear on pistols, etc.

I prefer the 357, but I would never get down on the selection of a 9mm. But I do feel to call them the same isn't accurate, as stated in the post I quoted. Different options are wonderful, long live the 9mm, .40S&W, 357sig, .45 gap, .45acp, 10mm, etc!!!!

How's that for diplomacy and peace makin'? :rofl:

It seems to me that shooting +P/+P+ ammo in a 9mm pistol would result in more wear compared to shooting .357sig ammo in a .357sig pistol. Now if shooting a velocity-hyped .357sig round like Underwood is reputed to be then it would be a wash, in my opinion.

SCmasterblaster
10-13-2012, 14:14
I have been debating on getting a pistol in 357 Sig, i really like the 9mm and this round is like a 9mm on steroids. But i sit down and watched Tnoutdoors9 tests and wrote down all the results. After going back and looking at them i found that 357 Sig 125 gr had a velocity of about 1,336 fps with about 14.50in of penatration. The Underwood 9mm +P+ 124 gr shot at 1,298 fps with about 13.25in of penatration. So now im thinking that with the high cost of 357 Sig ammo and barely better performance over the 9mm that i would be crazy to buy a handgun in 357 Sig, not to mention the reduced round magazine capacity. But i know to achieve the results of the 9mm test i am pretty much limited to Underwood ammo. (all of the tests on this ammo that i have seen has been great!) So my questions are: I want everybodys opinion on Underwood ammo and why would people buy a gun in 357 Sig when u can get pretty much the same results with cheaper ammo and more magazine capacity with the 9mm?

Good thinking, bro. I carry a G17 with 115gr WW JHP +p+. I have chronoed this load at 1400 FPS. 17 rounds in my G17 will handle almost anything.

avenues165
10-13-2012, 22:01
It seems to me that shooting +P/+P+ ammo in a 9mm pistol would result in more wear compared to shooting .357sig ammo in a .357sig pistol. Now if shooting a velocity-hyped .357sig round like Underwood is reputed to be then it would be a wash, in my opinion.

I was specifically thinking about range time with standard pressure rounds, but it is a good point. Although, I still wonder if the +p and +p+ stuff causes as much wear as a 357 sig. I am afraid it is beyond my limited knowledge base.

After spending some time shooting GDs out of the G23 and G24 at "reactive" targets (water bottles, wet cardboard, clay mud, fruits, etc), I think that they are plenty for SD*. They are also street-proven. I am eagerly looking forward to TNOutdoors9 upcoming test of the new Underwood 357 sig GD load.

*I know this isn't flesh. However, I don't have any people to practice on and I won't hunt anymore. If I did I wouldn't use a 357 sig. Hunt all you want, it is just no longer my thing.

SCmasterblaster
10-14-2012, 12:18
I was specifically thinking about range time with standard pressure rounds, but it is a good point. Although, I still wonder if the +p and +p+ stuff causes as much wear as a 357 sig. I am afraid it is beyond my limited knowledge base.

After spending some time shooting GDs out of the G23 and G24 at "reactive" targets (water bottles, wet cardboard, clay mud, fruits, etc), I think that they are plenty for SD*. They are also street-proven. I am eagerly looking forward to TNOutdoors9 upcoming test of the new Underwood 357 sig GD load.

*I know this isn't flesh. However, I don't have any people to practice on and I won't hunt anymore. If I did I wouldn't use a 357 sig. Hunt all you want, it is just no longer my thing.

Glock endorses 9mm +p and +p+ ammunition. :supergrin:

1canvas
10-14-2012, 13:53
I'm just not a fan of the 357 Sig.
With proper bullet selection there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Shot placement with any of them will get the job done. Each caliber has advantages and DISADVANTAGES. Choose any caliber you want, but understand your decision has compromises.

if that was true everyone would shoot 9mm, why shoot anything else.
in the real world good shot placement, although hoped for, very seldom happens when the shooter and the shot are in motion.
I have seen what those calibers do on animals and the results are quite different, especially the sig.

SCmasterblaster
10-14-2012, 14:44
if that was true everyone would shoot 9mm, why shoot anything else.
in the real world good shot placement, although hoped for, very seldom happens when the shooter and the shot are in motion.
I have seen what those calibers do on animals and the results are quite different, especially the sig.

9mm ammo is the least expensive of all of them, but ammo price is not even in my top five of reasons to choose a caliber. I have chosen 9mm because I have a G17. If I had a G22 I would use .40 S&W. :cool:

avenues165
10-14-2012, 16:03
I think the 9mm is a fine choice for SD, as is the 357sig, .40s&w, 10mm, 45gap, 45acp, 357 mag, etc. But, none of them are the same. They are all different for different applications, preferences, etc.

It would be boring if they were all the same. I like options!

unit1069
10-14-2012, 16:32
I was specifically thinking about range time with standard pressure rounds, but it is a good point. Although, I still wonder if the +p and +p+ stuff causes as much wear as a 357 sig. I am afraid it is beyond my limited knowledge base.

I think it all depends on the build of the pistol. I have one 9mm pistol that can shoot +P and +P+ ammo without any concern and another that the maker warns against shooting anything but standard pressure ammo. I am confident that my 3rd generation G-32 can shoot the normal (1325-1375 fps) .357sig rounds without any worries and I wouldn't think twice about shooting hotter ammo through this pistol if I had a mind to. But anytime ammo is loaded "hot" it results in more pressures on the gun, whatever the caliber.

After spending some time shooting GDs out of the G23 and G24 at "reactive" targets (water bottles, wet cardboard, clay mud, fruits, etc), I think that they are plenty for SD*.

I'm sure the Gold Dots in those platforms are more than adequate for self-defense.

unit1069
10-14-2012, 16:37
I think the 9mm is a fine choice for SD, as is the 357sig, .40s&w, 10mm, 45gap, 45acp, 357 mag, etc. But, none of them are the same. They are all different for different applications, preferences, etc.

It would be boring if they were all the same. I like options!


Of course. The caliber choices for me depend on the purpose I need it for and I do wonder why so many people --- after having chosen a perfectly adequate caliber --- give in to some anxiety over whether or not they picked the "right" one.

I'm not a hunter but if I was I would need a pistol of a different caliber from the two primary handgun calibers I own. That is, if I was ever inclined to hunt with a handgun.

avenues165
10-15-2012, 00:03
Of course. The caliber choices for me depend on the purpose I need it for and I do wonder why so many people --- after having chosen a perfectly adequate caliber --- give in to some anxiety over whether or not they picked the "right" one.

I'm not a hunter but if I was I would need a pistol of a different caliber from the two primary handgun calibers I own. That is, if I was ever inclined to hunt with a handgun.

You are right.

I figure I have the perfect cartridges FOR ME to choose in my Glocks, 357 sig and .40 s&w. They both have worked well for SD with proper loads. I can go with the 125gr 357 sig for most things since I shoot it a little better than the .40. There are a few circumstances where I think a .40 is the better choice FOR ME. I switch out the barrel and load up .40S&W.

I just don't think all of the service cartridges are the same. And I'm not necessarily talking about their ability to stop. One may penetrate barriers better than another. One may have less recoil than another. One may have a platform that is preferred. One may be better from short barrels. Etc.

NEOH212
10-15-2012, 03:25
With the modern +P and +P+ loads available for the 9mm, I don't see the need nor any benefit in the .357 Sig over the 9mm.

The cost of the .357 Sig alone is a major turn off and I'm willing to bet there isn't enough of a difference in the real world in terminal effectiveness between the 9mm +P+ Winchester 127 grain and the hottest 125 grain JHP loads in the .357 Sig.

Anyone want to put forth any real credible data to prove this one way or another?

I'd be willing to be the difference isn't as large as the .357 Sig fan boys would like to think it is.

SCmasterblaster
10-15-2012, 18:37
With the modern +P and +P+ loads available for the 9mm, I don't see the need nor any benefit in the .357 Sig over the 9mm.

The cost of the .357 Sig alone is a major turn off and I'm willing to bet there isn't enough of a difference in the real world in terminal effectiveness between the 9mm +P+ Winchester 127 grain and the hottest 125 grain JHP loads in the .357 Sig.

Anyone want to put forth any real credible data to prove this one way or another?

I'd be willing to be the difference isn't as large as the .357 Sig fan boys would like to think it is.

Another advantage of the 9x19 is that there are more of them. My G17 holds 18. :cool:

avenues165
10-15-2012, 20:02
Seeing the results from hunting I just really can't buy the penetration only argument, even with handguns. You have to have the penetration, but achieve the same penetration with a higher velocity and different things seem to happen. Gel, while a good way to compare loads, seems to be too homogenized to capture the damage that occurs.

Regarding cost, I can plink with 357 sig at the same price as I can with .40. More expensive than 9mm, but cheaper than .45acp.

I like it and I'll stick with it.

Screaming .357G
10-15-2012, 22:48
I used to love the .357Sig guns. In fact I had up to 5 of them at one time. Moslty glocks and sigs. I have since replaced them with 9mm and .40 versions. Reason is simple... if I want fast and light a 9mm +p++ out of a G34 give me all the speed and rounds I could ask for. The .40 versions give me a heavy bullet. in the 180 grain. If I want more than that I say go for a .45acp or a 10mm.

SCmasterblaster
10-16-2012, 19:13
I used to love the .357Sig guns. In fact I had up to 5 of them at one time. Moslty glocks and sigs. I have since replaced them with 9mm and .40 versions. Reason is simple... if I want fast and light a 9mm +p++ out of a G34 give me all the speed and rounds I could ask for. The .40 versions give me a heavy bullet. in the 180 grain. If I want more than that I say go for a .45acp or a 10mm.

+p++? Is that a typo?

WinterWizard
10-16-2012, 20:08
I'm just not a fan of the 357 Sig. Just not.

For decades people wanted SOMETHING between 9mm and 45 ACP - give them the 10mm Auto and 40 S&W, but they're not happy. So what's the next GREAT thing? Neck down the 40 S&W so we can have the reduced magazine capacity of the 40 S&W with the smaller bullet of the 9mm - OUTSTANDING! Really? Aren't we kind of re-inventing the wheel? 38 Super Comp seems like a better solution - just because of magazine capacity.

It just seems a bit odd.

Now that said... the 357 Sig is a fine round. Nothing WRONG with it. The thing that makes me "not a fan" is there is a lot of hype about it - "flat shooting", "unbelievable manstopper", etc.

With proper bullet selection there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Shot placement with any of them will get the job done. Each caliber has advantages and DISADVANTAGES. Choose any caliber you want, but understand your decision has compromises.

This is the correct answer.

Screaming .357G
10-16-2012, 22:40
SCmasterblaster, yes that was a typo, I held down the + button too long. Should have read +P+.

SCmasterblaster
10-17-2012, 13:22
SCmasterblaster, yes that was a typo, I held down the + button too long. Should have read +P+.

OK, no problem. :supergrin:

shotgunred
10-21-2012, 10:04
I am going to make the assumption that you will be using a glock. With that said if you buy a 9mm you can only shoot 9mm. If you buy a 40 or 357sig you can shoot the other with just a barrel swap. You can also shoot 9mm with a conversion barrel and the right mags. I would recommend you buy a 40 with the two extra barrels and some 9mm mags. I only say the 40 because if you want to sell the gun in the future it is a lot easier to sell a 40 than a 357sig.

unit1069
10-21-2012, 17:44
I am going to make the assumption that you will be using a glock. With that said if you buy a 9mm you can only shoot 9mm. If you buy a 40 or 357sig you can shoot the other with just a barrel swap. You can also shoot 9mm with a conversion barrel and the right mags. I would recommend you buy a 40 with the two extra barrels and some 9mm mags. I only say the 40 because if you want to sell the gun in the future it is a lot easier to sell a 40 than a 357sig.

My thinking also.

Given what the man said about his 9mm fast and light capabilities coupled with the .40S&W heavy and powerful capabilities I'd go with a G-35 with the various conversion barrels. And there's a whole lot of caliber/ammo options available between those two extremes.

I don't really need any more firearms but this has me thinking ...

... that a G-35 might be a logical future trade or purchase.

meatloaf samwich
10-21-2012, 19:34
I am going to make the assumption that you will be using a glock. With that said if you buy a 9mm you can only shoot 9mm. If you buy a 40 or 357sig you can shoot the other with just a barrel swap. You can also shoot 9mm with a conversion barrel and the right mags. I would recommend you buy a 40 with the two extra barrels and some 9mm mags. I only say the 40 because if you want to sell the gun in the future it is a lot easier to sell a 40 than a 357sig.

I have a 357sig with a 9mm conversion bbl. I shoot both underwood and georgia arms in both calibers. The GA is "hotter" than federal, speer, etc and underwood is about 150fps faster than georgia arms. Both are priced less than the premium manufacturers like double tap and corbon. I spoke with the owner Kevin and he said that his business plan is delivera premium ammo with higher energy dump, better expansion at less cost than the others.

I shot a 5" group @ 10 yards with federal 125 gr and cut it to 2" with underwood. Great CS also. Loaded to what 357 sig should be. The 9mm gives both inexpensive range ammo AND the ability to have excellent self defence rounds in that caliber. The advice to buy a .40 and get two conversion bbls is excellent. You get three guns in one. If the shtf you will have three different calibers for you to scrounge for.

SCmasterblaster
10-22-2012, 10:01
I have a 357sig with a 9mm conversion bbl. I shoot both underwood and georgia arms in both calibers. The GA is "hotter" than federal, speer, etc and underwood is about 150fps faster than georgia arms. Both are priced less than the premium manufacturers like double tap and corbon. I spoke with the owner Kevin and he said that his business plan is delivera premium ammo with higher energy dump, better expansion at less cost than the others.

I shot a 5" group @ 10 yards with federal 125 gr and cut it to 2" with underwood. Great CS also. Loaded to what 357 sig should be. The 9mm gives both inexpensive range ammo AND the ability to have excellent self defence rounds in that caliber. The advice to buy a .40 and get two conversion bbls is excellent. You get three guns in one. If the shtf you will have three different calibers for you to scrounge for.

Do you have to change the breech when you shoot 9mm in your .357 Sig Glock?

meatloaf samwich
10-22-2012, 14:48
Do you ghave to change the breech when you shoot 9mm in your .357 Sig Glock?

No. You would need mags for the caliber you are converting to such as 9mm. If you are converting from 357sig to 9mm you may have to drop a pound or to on the spring.

SCmasterblaster
10-22-2012, 15:26
No. You would need mags for the caliber you are converting to such as 9mm. If you are converting from 357sig to 9mm you may have to drop a pound or to on the spring.

The recoil spring, correct? :cool:

Coffee Dog
11-27-2012, 09:19
[QUOTE=avenues165;19512900]Underwood 9mm +p+ 124gr = 1,298fps
New Underwood 357 sig 125gr = 1,475fps (as stated by Underwood on GT, not tested yet by TNOutdoors9)

The rounds tested by TNOutdoors9 for 357 sig are all loads from the bigger guys that don't make hotter 357sig loads(Federal, Remington, Speer, hornady).

Let's compare apples to apples.

Having said all of that, the 9mm is a fine cartridge and would serve you well.[/QUOTE

TNOutdoors9 test on Uderwood 357 sig 125 gr. jhp ammo-

http://www.underwoodammo.com/357sig125graingolddotjacketedhollowpointboxof50.aspx

fredj338
11-27-2012, 13:25
You guys keep talking price when the diff is $7 per box for carry ammo. So that is not a reason to go 9mm +P+. Yes, std vel practice ammo is cheaper in 9mm, but then you are not practicing w/ something equiv to your carry ammo, if that is a concern. If you handeload, the cost is almost identical between 9mm & 357sig & you have options w/ the 357sig you do not with 9mm. Just a though.

SCmasterblaster
11-29-2012, 08:51
You guys keep talking price when the diff is $7 per box for carry ammo. So that is not a reason to go 9mm +P+. Yes, std vel practice ammo is cheaper in 9mm, but then you are not practicing w/ something equiv to your carry ammo, if that is a concern. If you handeload, the cost is almost identical between 9mm & 357sig & you have options w/ the 357sig you do not with 9mm. Just a though.

At a gun show in NH, I got a box of 50 Fed 9BPLE for just $25.

This load reaches 1400 FPS out of my Gen3 G17.

unit1069
11-29-2012, 11:08
At a gun show in NH, I got a box of 50 Fed 9BPLE for just $25.

This load reaches 1400 FPS out of my Gen3 G17.

You can buy the very same 9BPLE online for $16-$17/box of 50. If this is you're preferred 9mm carry round you can buy 250 rounds for right around $100, shipping included. One of the best deals going for a street proven 9mm round, in my opinion.

Berto
11-29-2012, 11:31
I love 9mm, but I'd rather stake my protection on ammo running in a fairly normal operating range vs loaded to beejezus bunker levels just to get an extra 100fps from an already overtaxed case capacity.
9mm works fine for me, but if I need 124gr going 1300+ I'll just use a cartridge weapon and platform designed around that.

PrecisionRifleman
11-29-2012, 11:31
I have been debating on getting a pistol in 357 Sig, i really like the 9mm and this round is like a 9mm on steroids. But i sit down and watched Tnoutdoors9 tests and wrote down all the results. After going back and looking at them i found that 357 Sig 125 gr had a velocity of about 1,336 fps with about 14.50in of penatration. The Underwood 9mm +P+ 124 gr shot at 1,298 fps with about 13.25in of penatration. So now im thinking that with the high cost of 357 Sig ammo and barely better performance over the 9mm that i would be crazy to buy a handgun in 357 Sig, not to mention the reduced round magazine capacity. But i know to achieve the results of the 9mm test i am pretty much limited to Underwood ammo. (all of the tests on this ammo that i have seen has been great!) So my questions are: I want everybodys opinion on Underwood ammo and why would people buy a gun in 357 Sig when u can get pretty much the same results with cheaper ammo and more magazine capacity with the 9mm?

Are those your Chronograph results or the claimed manufacturer's #'s?.

Food for thought. Ive been reloading a while now, and one thing every handloader notices is that he highest possible velocity is not usually the most accurate. In fact its sometimes crappy. Each caliber handgun is going to have a barrel.twist that is optimized for the ballistics of the caliber. I'm willing to bet that a 357 SIG pushed at 357 SIG velocity is going to be more accurate than a 9mm pushed to velocities that are outside the norm for the caliber. I'm also willing to bet that those same rounds are pushing even stretching what the caliber IA intended to handle. If Underwood loads their ammo that hot they are an acccident waiting to happen. The probability of it happeneing is going to be in the extreme spread. I highly doubt they are hand weighing each loads powder charge....

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

PocketProtector
11-29-2012, 11:45
My new Gen. 4, G26 had been flawless through 200 rounds. Last week went to the range with:

1. Speer 124gr. Gold Dots +P
2. Underwood 115gr Gold Dots +P+

All 50 Speers ran flawlessly.

2nd round of Underwood's completely looked up my G26. Could not eject the round at all. Wasn't sure if the round in the chamber was live or spent.

So, dropped the mag and counted rounds, and rounds on target, and concluded the chambered round was spent.

Removed the slide, and had one hell of a time removing the barrel. Had to drive the case out from the barrel end with a rod and hammer.

Inspected the barrel, reassembled and fired another 20 Speers, again flawlessly.

So, now have 48 rounds of Underwoods and not sure what to do.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p93/MaxGee/1F04A1A7-8908-42B4-9F26-D97C163D02AE-3704-0000024567EC04F5.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p93/MaxGee/69FA230E-B7FD-456F-A097-C25A9B512FCF-3339-00000211AB250146.jpg

PrecisionRifleman
11-29-2012, 12:06
My new Gen. 4, G26 had been flawless through 200 rounds. Last week went to the range with:

1. Speer 124gr. Gold Dots +P
2. Underwood 115gr Gold Dots +P+

All 50 Speers ran flawlessly.

2nd round of Underwood's completely looked up my G26. Could not eject the round at all. Wasn't sure if the round in the chamber was live or spent.

So, dropped the mag and counted rounds, and rounds on target, and concluded the chambered round was spent.

Removed the slide, and had one hell of a time removing the barrel. Had to drive the case out from the barrel end with a rod and hammer.

Inspected the barrel, reassembled and fired another 20 Speers, again flawlessly.

So, now have 48 rounds of Underwoods and not sure what to do.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p93/MaxGee/1F04A1A7-8908-42B4-9F26-D97C163D02AE-3704-0000024567EC04F5.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p93/MaxGee/69FA230E-B7FD-456F-A097-C25A9B512FCF-3339-00000211AB250146.jpg

Those casings show signs of excessive pressure, which is pretty obvious based on them being stuck in the barrel as well.

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PocketProtector
11-29-2012, 12:19
Those casings show signs of excessive pressure, which is pretty obvious based on them being stuck in the barrel as well.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Same casing.....The case measures .390 just under the rim. Doesn't seem out of the ordinary but the jam certainly was.

SCmasterblaster
11-29-2012, 12:19
You can buy the very same 9BPLE online for $16-$17/box of 50. If this is you're preferred 9mm carry round you can buy 250 rounds for right around $100, shipping included. One of the best deals going for a street proven 9mm round, in my opinion.

WOW - such a good deal!

fredj338
11-29-2012, 12:51
I shot a 5" group @ 10 yards with federal 125 gr and cut it to 2" with underwood. Great CS also. Loaded to what 357 sig should be. The 9mm gives both inexpensive range ammo AND the ability to have excellent self defence rounds in that caliber. The advice to buy a .40 and get two conversion bbls is excellent. You get three guns in one. If the shtf you will have three different calibers for you to scrounge for.
Is that a typo? That would be some terrible ammo coming in at 5" at a mere 30ft.:shocked:

I went w/ a G32 & 40 & 9mm bbls. The ultimate SHTF combo as you should be able to find some ammo some place.:dunno:

fredj338
11-29-2012, 12:54
I love 9mm, but I'd rather stake my protection on ammo running in a fairly normal operating range vs loaded to beejezus bunker levels just to get an extra 100fps from an already overtaxed case capacity.
9mm works fine for me, but if I need 124gr going 1300+ I'll just use a cartridge weapon and platform designed around that.

^THIS^^
Eventually running a cartridge at levels not really designed for it will result in a catastrophic failure. You want more gun, get more gun, don't try stuffing more powder into a smaller case just to gain 1-2 add'l. round sin the gun.:dunno:

SCmasterblaster
11-29-2012, 14:29
^THIS^^
Eventually running a cartridge at levels not really designed for it will result in a catastrophic failure. You want more gun, get more gun, don't try stuffing more powder into a smaller case just to gain 1-2 add'l. round sin the gun.:dunno:

Sooooo true. The case capacity of the 9x19 is puny compared to the .357 magnum that it keeps trying to match in power.