Which would you choose?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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pdblue
10-15-2012, 15:17
Let's just say you could only use 1 caliber for home defense - the 9mm or 45acp. Let's just say you shoot them equally well out of gun "X", recoil is not a problem with either, and both guns "fit like a glove". In the 9 you would be using 124gr +P Gold Dots and in the 45 you would be using 230gr Gold Dots. The 9 would hold 17+1 rounds and the 45 would hold 10+1 rounds.

I know this is the age old debate - but which gets your vote for home defense? (Oh btw, brick home, not an apartment, no kids, dogs or cats running around).

Warp
10-15-2012, 15:17
Let's just say you could only use 1 caliber for home defense - the 9mm or 45acp. Let's just say you shoot them equally well out of gun "X", recoil is not a problem with either, and both guns "fit like a glove". In the 9 you would be using 124gr +P Gold Dots and in the 45 you would be using 230gr Gold Dots. The 9 would hold 17+1 rounds and the 45 would hold 10+1 rounds.

I know this is the age old debate - but which gets your vote for home defense? (Oh btw, brick home, not an apartment, no kids, dogs or cats running around).

Doesn't matter.

K.Kiser
10-15-2012, 16:00
Doesn't matter.

Without splitting theoretical hairs, I agree... Either caliber will stop an intruder with well placed shots.. The only argument I could find is ammo capacity which obviously goes to the 9mm, but 10 rounds for home defence isn't shabby at all..

If I were lucky enough to get my hands on either firearm in a time of emergency I would feel like very fortunate man...

Whether or not we can be in a position to access a defense weapon in a emergency can always be compromised, a good friend had his cousing killed a few weeks ago while he was trying for a shotgun behind the door during a home burgulary and was shot in the hand by a single handgun round... I would feel safer with the dog in your avatar than a gun because the dog won't hesitate and will act accordingly.. That dog will also buy you precious time.. Sorry for the tangent..

SCmasterblaster
10-15-2012, 16:05
A G17. :cool:

purrrfect 10
10-15-2012, 16:18
G20 10mm is the best all around pistol you can buy. simply change the barrel for 3 caliber choices So weather you want power or pee wee you got it all with a G20 10mm

countrygun
10-15-2012, 16:30
For a few years i have had a Sig 2022 9mm w/nigh sights on my nightstand but the wife bought me an XDM .45 and I bought a G-20 so a few more trouble free rounds out of them and one of them will get night sights and take over. Sure a lot of shots in the mag is a good idea but a lot of bigger shots is "More better".:supergrin:

jp3975
10-15-2012, 18:43
9mm.

Its cheaper than 45acp plus you get nearly twice as many rounds.

I used to carry a Glock 20 and eventually just got tired of the cost of ammo.

SCmasterblaster
10-15-2012, 18:47
9mm Parabellum is available worldwide. :cool:

fastbolt
10-16-2012, 12:06
I'm another one with the opinion of "it doesn't matter".

I also don't have a dedicated "home defense" gun (whatever that might be to different folks).

Whatever I've carried that day as a retirement CCW weapon is usually what I'll leave out of the safe overnight.

Same thing I used to do before retirement and was carrying an issued weapon home. Didn't matter whether it was a 15 or 12rd 9mm, a 12 or 9rd .40 or an 8 or 7 rd .45 ... or even a 6rd revolver (back when I carried an issued revolver).

Neither capacity nor caliber made much difference to me after enough years having worked in LE and as a firearms instructor.

After a while I did decide I preferred to have night sights on more of my handguns, though. Kept a decently powerful flashlight at hand, too. (I don't own a weapon-mounted light for any of my handguns.)

So ... I'd see this as an individual decision based upon the specific individual involved. 9mm or .45 ACP? Sure. Whichever.

Now that the minor equipment issues have been decided, how about the critical owner/user issues?

Knowledge of the laws, safe firearm storage (against unauthorized persons/children gaining access), training (initial & recurrent), proper practice, familiarity with the chosen weapon (maintenance, safe handling & manipulation under duress & stress, etc), mindset. Things like that ...

SCmasterblaster
10-16-2012, 18:57
I'd choose a G17 9mmP mainly because I already have one. :cool:

collim1
10-16-2012, 19:43
Sig P220 with TLR-1 in .45acp for me.

I carry a 9mm, but when size is no concern I much prefer .45

Clutch Cargo
10-16-2012, 20:33
I owned a 9mm for 2 months. I bought it as a good deal to be used for trading material. I'm a .45 guy and that's the truth.

cowboy1964
10-16-2012, 20:49
Either one is fine. But in the real world most people will shoot one better than the other so that should be the real answer.

SCmasterblaster
10-17-2012, 13:24
It is time to go bullet shopping - 115gr FMJ-RN in 9mmP.

dakrat
10-18-2012, 09:08
for pure home defense, I will take the 11 rounds of 230gr Gold Dots. anything that will help to stop the threat sooner and not shoot back is a big plus here. the extra capacity advantage of the 9mm is not important under my roof.

Chuck TX
10-18-2012, 09:27
Depends, would people say you have the hands of a Blacksmith or a GirlScout?:rofl:


Seriously, with bullet technology these days, the difference is arguably negligible, sort of. However, with +P+ 9mm loadings so is recoil. A better deciding factor could be which one in defensive loads feels better to you. Which will get you to the range to shoot?

I like .45. I reload and I'm a big guy so the cost of shooting a lot and the perceived recoil aren't issues for me. I generally prefer the platforms that .45 comes in vs 9mm. Also, I'm more likely to have an impromptu shoot out with a feral hog, where 9mm is woefully weak sauce.

SCmasterblaster
10-18-2012, 10:03
Depends, would people say you have the hands of a Blacksmith or a GirlScout?:rofl:


Seriously, with bullet technology these days, the difference is arguably negligible, sort of. However, with +P+ 9mm loadings so is recoil. A better deciding factor could be which one in defensive loads feels better to you. Which will get you to the range to shoot?

I like .45. I reload and I'm a big guy so the cost of shooting a lot and the perceived recoil aren't issues for me. I generally prefer the platforms that .45 comes in vs 9mm. Also, I'm more likely to have an impromptu shoot out with a feral hog, where 9mm is woefully weak sauce.

There is not much recoil with the WW or Fed 115gr JHP +p+ loading, and it gives me 1400 FPS out of my G17.

sstecker
10-18-2012, 13:18
14 rounds of 230 grain +p HST's delivered by my G21 woulde be my first choice. 2nd choice would be 16 rounds of 147 grain +p HST's delivered by my G19.

SCmasterblaster
10-18-2012, 13:31
14 rounds of 230 grain +p HST's delivered by my G21 woulde be my first choice. 2nd choice would be 16 rounds of 147 grain +p HST's delivered by my G19.

Your .45 load looks rather mean.

SCSU74
10-18-2012, 13:33
Between the listed ammo it is literally a push. Our PD issues both those calibres with the rounds you listed. After researching ballistics for quite some time I came to the conclusion there was no reason to keep carrying my 21 on duty. It offered nothing the 17 didn't and held less rounds. The 17 is easier to shoot with my non-dominant hand and I able able to get follow ups on target much faster. A gen 4 17 is very hard to beat. The link below is from speer's website comparing the two rounds you mentioned. If it was 1940 I would definitely say go .45. It's 2012, with gold dots there's no reason to not pick 9mm.

http://le.atk.com/ammunition/speer/handgun/compare.aspx?compare=53617%2C53966


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

SCmasterblaster
10-18-2012, 13:38
Between the listed ammo it is literally a push. Our PD issues both those calibres with the rounds you listed. After researching ballistics for quite some time I came to the conclusion there was no reason to keep carrying my 21 on duty. It offered nothing the 17 didn't and held less rounds. The 17 is easier to shoot with my non-dominant hand and I able able to get follow ups on target much faster. A gen 4 17 is very hard to beat. The link below is from speer's website comparing the two rounds you mentioned. If it was 1940 I would definitely say go .45. It's 2012, with gold dots there's no reason to not pick 9mm.

http://le.atk.com/ammunition/speer/handgun/compare.aspx?compare=53617%2C53966

Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong


The 9mm has been developed into a supreme stopper.

1smoothredneck
10-18-2012, 18:47
For me HD means more possible users than just myself. It also means the possibility of a "grab and go" fight, with perhaps no reload capability immediately at hand. The nine with extended mag + light/laser is my choice.
However, a defender armed with either such weapon will be well prepared indeed!

JW1178
10-18-2012, 19:30
Well, since you are talking about similar sized weapons, the G21 holds 13.

Bigger holes has the advantage, especially in a HD situation the .45 is better. Can't always count on the bullet to expand. However, handguns are handguns, but the 9mm is the weaker. Need every advantage you can get with a handgun. Seems that people think that the bullet technology in the 9mm hasn't gone to the .45.

I don't own a .45, but I do have a G19 next to me. However, there is an AR close by. My G20 isn't with me at the moment.

Warp
10-18-2012, 19:43
Well, since you are talking about similar sized weapons, the G21 holds 13.

Bigger holes has the advantage, especially in a HD situation the .45 is better. Can't always count on the bullet to expand. However, handguns are handguns, but the 9mm is the weaker. Need every advantage you can get with a handgun. Seems that people think that the bullet technology in the 9mm hasn't gone to the .45.

I don't own a .45, but I do have a G19 next to me. However, there is an AR close by. My G20 isn't with me at the moment.

Does that include speed of follow up shots; or capacity? :supergrin:

What's in the AR?

PrecisionRifleman
10-18-2012, 19:50
I generally prefer the platforms that .45 comes in vs 9mm. Also, I'm more likely to have an impromptu shoot out with a feral hog, where 9mm is woefully weak sauce.

So is the 45 ACP in that situation.

SCSU74
10-18-2012, 20:15
Well, since you are talking about similar sized weapons, the G21 holds 13.

Bigger holes has the advantage, especially in a HD situation the .45 is better. Can't always count on the bullet to expand. However, handguns are handguns, but the 9mm is the weaker. Need every advantage you can get with a handgun. Seems that people think that the bullet technology in the 9mm hasn't gone to the .45.

I don't own a .45, but I do have a G19 next to me. However, there is an AR close by. My G20 isn't with me at the moment.

That hurt my brain. Click on the link I provided to all the testing. The .45 expands marginally better than the 9mm in all mediums of the FBI test. What supports your statement that 9mm is "weaker"?


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

Chuck TX
10-19-2012, 09:08
So is the 45 ACP in that situation.

Hardly. 1) 45 Super, same gun. 2) Bullet, powder, and brass tech was needed to make the 9mm adequate, same tech can make a 185gr +P 45acp heavier and faster than a 180gr .40sw. 3) If you roll you own, making hog killers ain't a problem.

M 7
10-19-2012, 10:14
Let's just say you could only use 1 caliber for home defense - the 9mm or 45acp. Let's just say you shoot them equally well out of gun "X", recoil is not a problem with either, and both guns "fit like a glove". In the 9 you would be using 124gr +P Gold Dots and in the 45 you would be using 230gr Gold Dots. The 9 would hold 17+1 rounds and the 45 would hold 10+1 rounds.

I know this is the age old debate - but which gets your vote for home defense? (Oh btw, brick home, not an apartment, no kids, dogs or cats running around).

I'd go with the 9mm. I doubt tha there is a penny's worth of difference between the two so I'll go with what gives me more ammo.

CanMan
10-19-2012, 10:44
I'll be honest...I don't shoot them equally well. I've tried. 9x19 for me.

BuckyP
10-19-2012, 11:05
As mentioned, the platform is better than the caliber (assuming a proper caliber). My wife manipulates a Beretta better than any other platform. That is why I have a Beretta Vertec G in quick access safes on the first and second floor of the house. 20 + 1 in the bedroom, 17+1 in the first floor, both factory magazines.

That being said, my EDC (a G30) sits on my nightstand as we sleep, so I guess you can say both. :embarassed:

Darkangel1846
10-20-2012, 09:16
Let's just say you could only use 1 caliber for home defense - the 9mm or 45acp. Let's just say you shoot them equally well out of gun "X", recoil is not a problem with either, and both guns "fit like a glove". In the 9 you would be using 124gr +P Gold Dots and in the 45 you would be using 230gr Gold Dots. The 9 would hold 17+1 rounds and the 45 would hold 10+1 rounds.

I know this is the age old debate - but which gets your vote for home defense? (Oh btw, brick home, not an apartment, no kids, dogs or cats running around).

either is fine with me:wavey:

SDGlock23
10-20-2012, 10:04
Either will work just fine as long as you put the bullet where it needs to go. Nothing wrong with preferring the .45, nothing wrong with preferring the 9mm or .40, 357, etc.

SDDL-UP
10-20-2012, 11:59
I'd have to say 9mm - just because of the extra capacity.

A bump in the night? A close range encouter with an armed intruder? I think you might be better off with more rounds in the gun.

SCmasterblaster
10-20-2012, 12:24
I'd have to say 9mm - just because of the extra capacity.

A bump in the night? A close range encouter with an armed intruder? I think you might be better off with more rounds in the gun.

That's right. I rely on the 9mmP in part due to the extra rounds available. +p+ rounds for sure.

VinnieD
10-20-2012, 14:04
As a .357mag shooter and carrier, I'd be out of my element either way, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. Though you can find 9mm and .45acp revolvers, so assuming I can still shoot with my preferred platform, I'll get down to advantages of the ballistics. You'd think if I were a .357magnum fan, I'd favor 9mm, given that 9mm isn't all that different from .38 special, a bit lighter, and a bit faster. But personally I don't think 9mm is fast or heavy enough to provide .357 magnum performance, but at the same time, if the case is home defense, velocity isn't going to be the issue it would be in the open, so a relatively short range, low velocity projectile would do just fine.

So short version of that I'd probably opt for .45acp over 9mm for the very specific purpose of home defense.

SCmasterblaster
10-20-2012, 14:07
As a .357mag shooter and carrier, I'd be out of my element either way, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. Though you can find 9mm and .45acp revolvers, so assuming I can still shoot with my preferred platform, I'll get down to advantages of the ballistics. You'd think if I were a .357magnum fan, I'd favor 9mm, given that 9mm isn't all that different from .38 special, a bit lighter, and a bit faster. But personally I don't think 9mm is fast or heavy enough to provide .357 magnum performance, but at the same time, if the case is home defense, velocity isn't going to be the issue it would be in the open, so a relatively short range, low velocity projectile would do just fine.

So short version of that I'd probably opt for .45acp over 9mm for the very specific purpose of home defense.

I like the .45 ACP just fine, but my CCW is a G17.

dukeblue91
10-23-2012, 16:57
easy choice for me since I don't carry any 9mm on only have .45 acp that's all I'll choose.

2afreedom
10-23-2012, 19:28
I was asked this question by a guy who has just started shooting recently. He wanted to know what I carried and what caliber he should pick for HD/carry.

I told him I carry a G27 because that's what I have used for years and I have a good source for 180gr Gold Dots cheap. Then without hesitation, I told him to buy a 9mm, a thousand rounds of fmj practice ammo, and a couple of boxes of 124gr+p Gold Dots for carry. If I were to start all over tomorrow, that's what I would do and not think twice about it.

gunsnhoses
10-23-2012, 21:04
I have and carry mostly 9's, but have a .45 for HD. Why? I have shot several 3 gun comps where I've seen steel targets that wouldn't consistently go down when shot with 9mm, but always went over when shot with .45. To me that just means it has a bit more oomph. I understand bullet technology has changed things, but a bullet that hits a little harder just makes sense to me.

9mm +p+
10-23-2012, 21:19
Either would be fine for me.

Inebriated
10-24-2012, 02:44
It's going to make very little difference, but I'd go .45 simply because a heavier bullet should deflect less if it hits bone, and should penetrate barriers better. Both penetrate soft media about the same.
Also...
A Glock 21 mag with a +1 baseplate gives 15 rounds.
A Glock 17 mag with a +2 baseplate gives 20 rounds.
I don't consider that a large enough capacity difference to make capacity a very important factor in the decision making.

Arc Angel
10-24-2012, 05:03
I don't care. Either one will kill you; it's just that the 45 ACP will do it faster, and with fewer shots, too. I carry both; and I always try to put the first three rounds squarely on target. So, again, I really don't care.

Is there one overall determinant factor? I think there is, ....... effective marksmanship is more important with a 9 x 19mm. I carry a 30 round ammo load with a 45 ACP; but I carry a 50 round ammo load with a 9mm.

(Because CQB pistol gunfighting - especially with a short-barreled pistol - is all about quickly, 'loading 'um up', and quickly, 'freighting 'um down'.) ;)

Warp
10-24-2012, 12:17
It's going to make very little difference, but I'd go .45 simply because a heavier bullet should deflect less if it hits bone, and should penetrate barriers better.

9mm should penetrate better than .45. Better sectional density is a big factor here.

Inebriated
10-24-2012, 13:48
9mm should penetrate better than .45. Better sectional density is a big factor here.
.45 has always penetrated better for my informal tests, but that's... well, informal.

Do I smell a reason to go to the range and poke holes in things??? I think I do.

digilo
10-24-2012, 15:04
It's going to make very little difference, but I'd go .45 simply because a heavier bullet should deflect less if it hits bone, and should penetrate barriers better. Both penetrate soft media about the same.
Also...
A Glock 21 mag with a +1 baseplate gives 15 rounds.
A Glock 17 mag with a +2 baseplate gives 20 rounds.
I don't consider that a large enough capacity difference to make capacity a very important factor in the decision making.

This is why I too would go with .45 over 9mm. Currently I have a .40, and I got it to shoot 180 gr. HP. One other thing I considered was, will a 9mm stop a big dog, like a Rott or pit bull?

shotgunred
10-24-2012, 17:50
45apc

SDDL-UP
10-24-2012, 19:12
2afreedom,

Well, during the "ban era" the 45 ACP gained a lot of popularity due to the magazine capacity limit of 10 rounds. Now that we are FREE to choose normal capacity magazines there are advantages to carrrying a 9mm.

JackMac
10-24-2012, 19:12
Glock 21

BuckyP
10-25-2012, 07:18
2afreedom,

Well, during the "ban era" the 45 ACP gained a lot of popularity due to the magazine capacity limit of 10 rounds. Now that we are FREE to choose normal capacity magazines there are advantages to carrrying a 9mm.

Except a large population is still limited to (mostly) 10 rounds, which perhaps the .45 ACP still remains popular. Also, consider states like NJ where hollow points are restricted (not illegal, though many in LE believe they are). That would make the .45 more popular as well.

SCSU74
10-25-2012, 13:44
I have and carry mostly 9's, but have a .45 for HD. Why? I have shot several 3 gun comps where I've seen steel targets that wouldn't consistently go down when shot with 9mm, but always went over when shot with .45. To me that just means it has a bit more oomph. I understand bullet technology has changed things, but a bullet that hits a little harder just makes sense to me.

We're you using gold dots or fmj? When I use 124+p gold dots the steel falls just as fast as 230g :)


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

SCSU74
10-25-2012, 13:45
I don't care. Either one will kill you; it's just that the 45 ACP will do it faster, and with fewer shots, too. I carry both; and I always try to put the first three rounds squarely on target. So, again, I really don't care.

Is there one overall determinant factor? I think there is, ....... effective marksmanship is more important with a 9 x 19mm. I carry a 30 round ammo load with a 45 ACP; but I carry a 50 round ammo load with a 9mm.

(Because CQB pistol gunfighting - especially with a short-barreled pistol - is all about quickly, 'loading 'um up', and quickly, 'freighting 'um down'.) ;)

How will a .45 kill you faster when compared to 9mm? it creates an almost identical wound path, hits with same energy, and expands to the same size +/- .05"


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

gunsnhoses
10-25-2012, 14:18
We're you using gold dots or fmj? When I use 124+p gold dots the steel falls just as fast as 230g :)


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

I'm sure everybody is using FMJ in the comps. However, I think the energy difference is the same when comparing defense ammo as well.

gunsnhoses
10-25-2012, 14:20
Also, I don't think anybody would argue that a .30-.30 or .30-06 has more kinetic energy than a 5.56 round, and those are larger slower moving cartridges.

SCmasterblaster
10-25-2012, 18:22
Except a large population is still limited to (mostly) 10 rounds, which perhaps the .45 ACP still remains popular. Also, consider states like NJ where hollow points are restricted (not illegal, though many in LE believe they are). That would make the .45 more popular as well.

There is a large segment of the US population that has a 10-round limit to their magazines. :upeyes: