Off Duty Carry [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Clark's 22
10-15-2012, 19:58
When off duty do you carry concealed or do you open carry and why?

rockapede
10-15-2012, 20:06
When off duty do you carry concealed or do you open carry and why?

I only open carry in uniform or at training functions. I carry concealed all other times (as in every time I step out my front door). I always carry a reload as well.

Clark's 22
10-15-2012, 20:20
Same here, but several officers say they open carry all the time but the reasons do not seem very valid. Why draw the attention to yourself is what I say.:tongueout:

rockapede
10-15-2012, 20:28
Same here, but several officers say they open carry all the time but the reasons do not seem very valid. Why draw the attention to yourself is what I say.:tongueout:

As far as my outward appearance is concerned, I am the antithesis of a cop off duty. I drive a beater, wear nothing with any sort of police logo, have no visible gear on my person, and have a full beard (because my agency is cool like that).

CanIhaveGasCash
10-15-2012, 20:31
I carry every time I leave the house, and it is almost always concealed unless I am going to the range or hunting.

I've never really understood why every cop feels the need to show off their hardware at training.

I see no reason to advertise the fact that I am armed, or that I am a cop, when I am not working. I purposefully try to look as little like a cop as possible when I am not working.

rockapede
10-15-2012, 20:36
I've never really understood why every cop feels the need to show off their hardware at training.


I could have worded my post a little better; I meant departmental training like range training etc. Out of town at classes I carry concealed though dressed a little nicer than normal.

Clark's 22
10-15-2012, 20:44
Exactly

RetailNinja
10-15-2012, 20:53
Concealed. I don't know of any cops in IL that would OC off duty. I do know of some dewshnozzles in the burbs who might as well be OCing when their idea of concealed is pulling a 2 size too small Abercrombie/Hollister/AE shirt down over a Fobus OWB holster w/ Glock 22 or Sig wedged inside.

Clark's 22
10-15-2012, 21:08
G22 alright but in a crossbreed supertuck. Very comfortable, very concealable.

SAR
10-15-2012, 21:52
Tactically, you give up all your advantage when you open carry. If I was a bad guy, I'd make sure and take out all the open carry guys first.

Hack
10-15-2012, 21:53
Concealed is my preference. Reason: I don't like to advertise. In some areas around here it is better to keep it concealed, either because of the punks, or because of the MWAG calls that would come about. I don't care for that. Although when carrying as a private citizen, (strange agency, but anyway), we can carry in the open in areas that it is legally OK to do so, my agency prefers that we keep things concealed.

collim1
10-15-2012, 23:24
Definitely concealed, and no blue line stickers on my vehicle or 5.11 LE type clothing off duty either.

lawman800
10-15-2012, 23:34
Concealed. I don't know of any cops in IL that would OC off duty. I do know of some dewshnozzles in the burbs who might as well be OCing when their idea of concealed is pulling a 2 size too small Abercrombie/Hollister/AE shirt down over a Fobus OWB holster w/ Glock 22 or Sig wedged inside.

Hey now... I wear the correct sizing in Abercrombie but their idea of a Medium is not the same as the Hanes Beefy-Tee idea of a Medium. But as long as all the ladies appreciate it, I am okay with wearing fitted clothing.

No Fobus OWB for me though, as a matter of fact, I don't have any OWB gear other than some old stuff I had leftover from the early days when I used to wear that under a suit.

Sharky7
10-15-2012, 23:58
There's no OC in my state, I conceal carry off duty.

Even if there was OC, I would pass. I like to just blend in off duty. A handgun on the hip draws a lot of attention. The novelty wears off after a year or less on the job. I just want to enjoy life blending in with society when off, don't want to have a big sign on me saying I'm the police.

CW Mock
10-16-2012, 00:00
Concealed all the time and try to avoid looking like a cop. On some training days I carry openly. Otherwise, closest I get is an OWB holster with a suit, so that makes it semi-CCW I guess.

I have no idea why anyone would want to OC these days unless they are super skilled in gun retention. Waaaay to much hassle. Nothing against the idea other than its a tactical nightmare in any kind of crowd. Out in the woods, no sweat.


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lawman800
10-16-2012, 00:52
I've always carried concealed during training but noticed a lot of cops like to OC during training sessions, even classroom sessions where there is no range or outdoor component whatsoever. For a five day class where we sit in a room for the whole time, talking and watching films, they would OC from the parking lot to the class and out to lunch, in civvies... I never got that... and don't feel the need to... but then again, maybe they carry like that and just didn't cover with a jacket or concealing garment since it was a training session and maybe when they go back to the real world, they cover up, who knows.

CanIhaveGasCash
10-16-2012, 03:42
I've always carried concealed during training but noticed a lot of cops like to OC during training sessions, even classroom sessions where there is no range or outdoor component whatsoever. For a five day class where we sit in a room for the whole time, talking and watching films, they would OC from the parking lot to the class and out to lunch, in civvies.

This is what I was referring to in my earlier post. I go to trainings all the time that are not even remotely firearms related, and the room is full of guys (and sometimes ladies) who are OCing, usually in a holster valued at less than $20 that will break if you look at it too hard.

I understand OC when you drive a marked unit to a training, but when you are driving your POV, there is no excuse.

ditchdoc24
10-16-2012, 04:34
I carry concealed at all times off duty when I'm away from the house. Sometimes it's IWB and sometimes it's OWB but I always carry a spare mag as well.

Ship A'Hoy
10-16-2012, 04:37
I CC when not in uniform, I don't want to advertise, simple as that.

Butcher
10-16-2012, 05:08
Concealed.


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GunFighter45ACP
10-16-2012, 06:04
Concealed. I don't know of any cops in IL that would OC off duty. I do know of some dewshnozzles in the burbs who might as well be OCing when their idea of concealed is pulling a 2 size too small Abercrombie/Hollister/AE shirt down over a Fobus OWB holster w/ Glock 22 or Sig wedged inside.

:rofl: Every now & then I'll see a local LEO like this, but mostly it's been OC w/shield & gun on the hip. They are too 'dressed down' to be on duty, but when I asked a friend of mine he said it's mostly Rookie Cops to/from work advertizing the fact that they are (finally) cops & ultimately want to be in CID... Ah the bliss of youth!

Knute
10-16-2012, 06:33
Always carry, always concealed (except for on duty). Concealed for various reasons. First, like many have mentioned, is for tactics. Second, is for all the stupid calls I would generate as a "man with a gun." I've seen this play out too many times, and not just in my area or my state. Lastly, because my deptartment policy says to do so. They don't like scenario #2 occurring.

There was an earlier comment about officers commonly carrying in the open. I don't know of a single officer that does this, nor have I heard of this. Where is this coming from?

Patchman
10-16-2012, 06:36
I've always carried concealed during training but noticed a lot of cops like to OC during training sessions, even classroom sessions where there is no range or outdoor component whatsoever. For a five day class where we sit in a room for the whole time, talking and watching films, they would OC from the parking lot to the class and out to lunch, in civvies... I never got that... and don't feel the need to... but then again, maybe they carry like that and just didn't cover with a jacket or concealing garment since it was a training session and maybe when they go back to the real world, they cover up, who knows.

With us, classroom type training is always in business attire, meaning tie and jacket. I like to get comfortable while in the classroom and driving there, so I remove my jacket. But walking through the parking lot, going for lunch, etc... is always with the jacket on. (Or at least held against the side to conceal the gun/holster).

Even when I'm working and have to run out for a minute or two, I'll grab a jacket or (if weather is too hot) pull out just enough shirt to "blouse" it over the gun. And as I don't wear my badge LAPD style, there's just the gun butt to hide.

razdog76
10-16-2012, 06:38
If not in uniform the only time I OC is walking to my deer stand, or sitting in my deer stand. :supergrin:

SAR hit the nail on the head.

Patchman
10-16-2012, 06:41
There was an earlier comment about officers commonly carrying in the open. I don't know of a single officer that does this, nor have I heard of this. Where is this coming from?

Other than for previously mentioned training, hunting, range, etc... I've also never heard or seen this where I'm at. Especially for off-duty.

CBennett
10-16-2012, 06:48
When off duty do you carry concealed or do you open carry and why?

ALWAYS concealed(unless im hunting,hiking,fishing or for the most part out of the public eye) because if I have a weapon off duty is no ones business but mine. Im not a attention seeker trying to make a scene.(i am not a open carry advocate I honestly cant stand it)

CLoft239
10-16-2012, 06:53
Always carry, all the time, concealed. Even in my residence. Home invasions are a major problem here, and that's what's led to my decision to carry at home. Even living in a nice area, the trash from surrounding areas likes to come in to carry out their shenanigans.

My observation, in my parts, the only officers I see OC off duty are reserves. I know of a few that actually wear a T-shirt with "Police" screen-printed across the back :rolleyes:

I have no clue why an officer would want to be identified as one off duty, especially if they have their family with them...

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".

CanIhaveGasCash
10-16-2012, 07:06
There was an earlier comment about officers commonly carrying in the open. I don't know of a single officer that does this, nor have I heard of this. Where is this coming from?

I have found it to be common in the rural mountainous areas of Colorado.

lawman800
10-16-2012, 07:44
Mark Wahlberg did it a lot in the movie "The Corruptor" as he walked around with his NYPD patrolman's shield and gun out in the open.

series1811
10-16-2012, 08:33
When off duty do you carry concealed or do you open carry and why?

I've always been plainclothes. The only times I have ever open carried in my entire life have been at the range, or in full raid gear, or on an operation.

For all the reasons that have been posted ad nauseum. :supergrin:

k9medic
10-16-2012, 09:03
off duty = always concealed

on duty = open carry or concealed depending on the assignment

Sharky7
10-16-2012, 11:56
I've always carried concealed during training but noticed a lot of cops like to OC during training sessions, even classroom sessions where there is no range or outdoor component whatsoever. For a five day class where we sit in a room for the whole time, talking and watching films, they would OC from the parking lot to the class and out to lunch, in civvies... I never got that... and don't feel the need to... but then again, maybe they carry like that and just didn't cover with a jacket or concealing garment since it was a training session and maybe when they go back to the real world, they cover up, who knows.

From my experience around my neck of the woods, those are the guys who don't normally carry off duty. They don't have good concealed carry holsters or experience concealing the gun in street clothes.

RyanNREMTP
10-16-2012, 12:18
I'm the same as everyone else pretty much. I cc a glock 27 on me whenever possible.

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11A
10-16-2012, 19:34
Our directives actually state that while in plain clothes (on and off duty) we will carry in a concealed manner except for in police facilities. I believe that 98% of our agency would CC anyway as because they don't want to advertise. Our admin took care of the other 2% for us.

11A
10-16-2012, 19:38
Double tap

Vigilant
10-16-2012, 19:41
I open carry, and walk with a D cell battery balanced on my right shoulder, with a sign that says, "I DARE you to knock this off". :whistling:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TLpH_1WI71c/R9wG5xmpP6I/AAAAAAAAA84/keSn2JiR3_M/s200/conrad_battery.jpg

lawman800
10-16-2012, 20:42
I open carry, and walk with a D cell battery balanced on my right shoulder, with a sign that says, "I DARE you to knock this off". :whistling:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TLpH_1WI71c/R9wG5xmpP6I/AAAAAAAAA84/keSn2JiR3_M/s200/conrad_battery.jpg

While wearing tights?:whistling:

Vigilant
10-16-2012, 21:17
While wearing tights?:whistling:

Lord, I hope not! That was also long before the days of the Taurus Slim. :rofl:

To be sure, you remember this guy from the TV series, The Wild Wild West.

Vigilant
10-16-2012, 21:19
Sounds like something a lady of the night might also say as an obscure way of propositioning a John..... I dare you to knock this off :rofl:

Chowser
10-16-2012, 21:59
carry concealed for most of the reasons already posted and don't advertise that i am l.e.

made it easier at work too with new policy. off-duty is CONCEALED. if enroute to training or school or at training or school (police related school), then open carry is permitted as long as you keep your badge next to your gun and you carry an extra mag and handcuff.

that pretty much prevented open carry because the guys hate carrying the extra mag and handcuff.

my point to them was why carry openly while displaying a badge if you aren't going to make an attempt to handcuff someone. at least make it appear that you weren't just out there to shoot someone.

ChrisYZFR1
10-16-2012, 23:16
Why would anyone off duty open carry????? Is it the same people who "accidentally" show their flat badge when they go to pay for something?

Delon
10-16-2012, 23:38
Open carry while off duty or for a civilian is just stupid, it makes you target and draws attention to you, neither of which are good.

I carry 24x7 and I never looked like a cop off duty, think about it, off duty you don't have a radio, vest, dispatch, etc, so why do you want people to know you are armed or a cop?

SCSU74
10-16-2012, 23:38
Always concealed. No reason to ever OC unless at weapons training


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

Rex G
10-17-2012, 00:03
Concealed, as directed by policy.

When I elect to pack heavy, with a large "primary" handgun outside the trousers, and relatively large second gun, I am not really fooling anybody, at least in the summertime here along the humid Texas coast. When I choose low-profile, which is more common, I can look like a feeble grandpa, and the feeble part is becoming more true all the time.

lawman800
10-17-2012, 02:10
Why would anyone off duty open carry????? Is it the same people who "accidentally" show their flat badge when they go to pay for something?

Hey, the accident can net them free food for the whole family.

razdog76
10-17-2012, 06:23
Sounds like something a lady of the night might also say as an obscure way of propositioning a John..... I dare you to knock this off :rofl:

Like, "Hey fella, that's a big gun you OC."

SCSU74
10-17-2012, 08:52
Concealed, as directed by policy.

When I elect to pack heavy, with a large "primary" handgun outside the trousers, and relatively large second gun, I am not really fooling anybody, at least in the summertime here along the humid Texas coast. When I choose low-profile, which is more common, I can look like a feeble grandpa, and the feeble part is becoming more true all the time.

Get you a crossbreed. I swap between a full size 17 and 21 even in the summer. Conceals well for me with cargo shorts and t shirt


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

kayl
10-17-2012, 09:26
Off duty concealed, On duty training in plainclothes concealed.

I once saw another officer open carrying a LCP in a fobus paddle holster...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

rockapede
10-17-2012, 09:44
Off duty concealed, On duty training in plainclothes concealed.

I once saw another officer open carrying a LCP in a fobus paddle holster...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Good God. Step one: open carry so you're the first target. Step two, make sure said openly carried firearm is such that you can barely defend yourself when said targeting occurs. Attempted suicide by perp?

Hack
10-17-2012, 09:46
Good God. Step one: open carry so you're the first target. Step two, make sure said openly carried firearm is such that you can barely defend yourself when said targeting occurs. Attempted suicide by perp?

Hmm ... :popcorn: Have a bowl. BYOBeverage.:supergrin:

Cochese
10-17-2012, 09:47
Off duty concealed, On duty training in plainclothes concealed.

I once saw another officer open carrying a LCP in a fobus paddle holster...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I've seen the same. Haha

Concealed, always.

I'm one of those that carries openly at trainings but its because they are inside a police building or I drive a marked shop to the training.

Otherwise, usually (now) a G26 in a DeSantis Nemesis in my cargo pocket.

kayl
10-17-2012, 10:09
Good God. Step one: open carry so you're the first target. Step two, make sure said openly carried firearm is such that you can barely defend yourself when said targeting occurs. Attempted suicide by perp?

I thought about taking a pic, but I didn't think she'd appreciate it lol
The only upside is that she was at a training that had about 200+ officers attending; she had good backup firepower :)

lawman800
10-17-2012, 13:19
Off duty concealed, On duty training in plainclothes concealed.

I once saw another officer open carrying a LCP in a fobus paddle holster...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I saw an ACTIVE officer once with a dinky rusted .380 in a duty rig. Not security, a cop. I didn't even know how to start asking the question....

Gear
10-17-2012, 13:47
Glock 32 in a 5.11 thumbdrive and spare mag concealed at all times. Cooler weather here in New England makes it a lot easier to carry OWB and still stay concealed. Only time I open carry is in my house, like right now sitting at the computer.

lawman800
10-17-2012, 13:50
Glock 32 in a 5.11 thumbdrive and spare mag concealed at all times. Cooler weather here in New England makes it a lot easier to carry OWB and still stay concealed. Only time I open carry is in my house, like right now sitting at the computer.

Kind of hard to conceal anything when you only have a pair of Speedos on while sitting at the computer.:rofl::tongueout::whistling:

Gear
10-17-2012, 13:51
Kind of hard to conceal anything when you only have a pair of Speedos on while sitting at the computer.:rofl::tongueout::whistling:

Crap! I've been found out! :rofl:

awoodpd13
10-17-2012, 14:13
Concealed.

My position when I was active, and what I recommended to my officers was: "if you're not showing a badge, don't show a gun."

Rabbi
10-17-2012, 15:11
Concealed unless I am in a soft uniform. (polo w/badge,) And to be honest, I am not going to be in a soft uniform unless I am/was/will be doing police things, even though I may not actually be "on duty."

Vigilant
10-17-2012, 17:35
Like, "Hey fella, that's a big gun you OC."

Or, "Is that a Jetbeam BC40 in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?" :whistling:

boomhower
10-17-2012, 18:13
Concealed. Unless I am going to quality or active shooter training I carry concealed to classes/training. SOP says I have to be armed when operating my car, does say it has to be visible.

BlackPaladin
10-17-2012, 19:36
Off duty, concealed
On duty plain clothes, open w badge displayed

lndshark
10-17-2012, 19:57
I saw an ACTIVE officer once with a dinky rusted .380 in a duty rig. Not security, a cop. I didn't even know how to start asking the question....

WTF? Really? This was in Ensenada, wasn't it? Please. Tell me it was. Or Tecate. Or even Tijuana. PLEASE!

Vigilant
10-17-2012, 20:25
Rumor has it that it was actually a rusty Taurus Slim.

lawman800
10-18-2012, 00:43
WTF? Really? This was in Ensenada, wasn't it? Please. Tell me it was. Or Tecate. Or even Tijuana. PLEASE!

No, it is actually in the U.S., but you would swear it was one of the cities you named if you just woke up in that city and not known where you were.:whistling:

Rumor has it that it was actually a rusty Taurus Slim.

It's not rust! It's body camo!:crying:

walkin' trails
10-18-2012, 18:13
I can't imagine why any sane person, police or civilian would want to draw attention to themselves with open carry, regardless of whether or not the badge is displayed. I'm plain clothes, and my best gun retention technique is to keep my pistols concealed. I've been in situations on duty where my pistol has been carried openly while in civilian atire, but it is also those situation where you've got a lot of other LEOs around doing the same thing. Being in uniform draws enough attention so I would prefer to have my pistols as accessible as possible.

Dukeboy01
10-18-2012, 18:59
Exclusively concealed while off- duty. When on- duty I carry concealed unless I'm specifically going out to take enforcement action, i.e. pick up a suspect or serve a warrant.

lawman800
10-18-2012, 19:34
http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/attention_whore2.jpg

Schaffer
10-18-2012, 23:13
Kind of hard to conceal anything when you only have a pair of Speedos on while sitting at the computer.:rofl::tongueout::whistling:

who said anything about a speedo?!?!




CC off duty, all the time. Only time i'm open carrying is if i'm on duty, or sometimes for court, with a badge on, if i'm going to pick up a prisoner or driving a marked unit.

I wouldn't even open carry if wasn't a LEO.

RetailNinja
10-19-2012, 00:31
Hey now... I wear the correct sizing in Abercrombie but their idea of a Medium is not the same as the Hanes Beefy-Tee idea of a Medium. But as long as all the ladies appreciate it, I am okay with wearing fitted clothing.


I buy the plaid buttondowns and plain t shirts from banana republic and old navy and gap in XL. They're fitted well enough that i have moob sculpting going on while hiding my 1911 iwb. It's the idiogs that give us all a bad name...

lawman800
10-19-2012, 08:45
who said anything about a speedo?!?!

CC off duty, all the time. Only time i'm open carrying is if i'm on duty, or sometimes for court, with a badge on, if i'm going to pick up a prisoner or driving a marked unit.

I wouldn't even open carry if wasn't a LEO.

So you wear speedos on duty?:whistling:

I buy the plaid buttondowns and plain t shirts from banana republic and old navy and gap in XL. They're fitted well enough that i have moob sculpting going on while hiding my 1911 iwb. It's the idiogs that give us all a bad name...

I can't fit anything from the BR/Gap/ON trio, unless it's a suit from BR that I tailor the crap out of to get it right for my frame.

I find it easier to just buy slim clothing from AF or Express.

9mmdude
10-19-2012, 09:24
I can't imagine why any sane person, police or civilian would want to draw attention to themselves with open carry, regardless of whether or not the badge is displayed. I'm plain clothes, and my best gun retention technique is to keep my pistols concealed. I've been in situations on duty where my pistol has been carried openly while in civilian atire, but it is also those situation where you've got a lot of other LEOs around doing the same thing. Being in uniform draws enough attention so I would prefer to have my pistols as accessible as possible.

Spot on.

Cochese
10-19-2012, 10:11
I find it easier to just buy slim clothing from AF or Express.

You and your smedium shirts. :rofl:

lawman800
10-19-2012, 10:31
You and your smedium shirts. :rofl:

Hey, I work hard for this body and I'm going to show it off as much as I can before I lose the battle to gravity and old age.:supergrin:

Kingarthurhk
10-19-2012, 22:41
Other than for previously mentioned training, hunting, range, etc... I've also never heard or seen this where I'm at. Especially for off-duty.

Neither have I. But, I suppose there is some dork somewhere who probably did.

Kingarthurhk
10-19-2012, 22:50
Hey, I work hard for this body and I'm going to show it off as much as I can before I lose the battle to gravity and old age.:supergrin:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110406205619/scrubs/images/9/9f/S6-HQ-Todd.jpg

You're not The Todd, are you?:supergrin::rofl:

Vigilant
10-19-2012, 23:22
http://www.hantastic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/0812_richard_simmons_5334993_wenn2-11.jpg

LM800 :wedgie: Uncle Vigilant and Nephew Merle

:rofl:

Vigilant
10-19-2012, 23:23
Come one, come all! We haven't had a good dogpile in at least a day! :supergrin:

lawman800
10-20-2012, 11:59
Neither have I. But, I suppose there is some dork somewhere who probably did.

There are always those off duty detectives who like pinning the badge on their off duty duds to look like they are working some cool plainclothes detail.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110406205619/scrubs/images/9/9f/S6-HQ-Todd.jpg

You're not The Todd, are you?:supergrin::rofl:

He's a wimp!

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2011/03/04/29891792/profilepic/1TAHdRMLMmcdbLvtRowrCB9NGKwo50641.jpeg

Clark's 22
10-20-2012, 20:21
Thanks for all the replies. I thought that would be the response. I mainly wanted to make a point to a young officer new to our small department who seems to think it cool to OC "just because he can" as a cop. I told him Kansas is an open carry state anyway, any fool can open carry officer or not.

Hack
10-20-2012, 23:11
Thanks for all the replies. I thought that would be the response. I mainly wanted to make a point to a young officer new to our small department who seems to think it cool to OC "just because he can" as a cop. I told him Kansas is an open carry state anyway, any fool can open carry officer or not.

And, just recently from what I have been hearing a person can open carry anywhere in a public place, regardless of town, or city ordinances due to some state law that had passed this year. I know there was a city official from OP boo hooing about it on the radio.

lawman800
10-20-2012, 23:45
And, just recently from what I have been hearing a person can open carry anywhere in a public place, regardless of town, or city ordinances due to some state law that had passed this year. I know there was a city official from OP boo hooing about it on the radio.

Yep, State law preemption is a ***** to those local politicians who want to rule their own little kingdoms like they do in Los Angeles and Chicago and New York, all liberal cities falling apart to their own machinations. Coincidence?

Hack
10-21-2012, 00:42
Yep, State law preemption is a ***** to those local politicians who want to rule their own little kingdoms like they do in Los Angeles and Chicago and New York, all liberal cities falling apart to their own machinations. Coincidence?

I am just glad that this particular boob on the radio was in the minority.

Coincidence? The places you named off just have them in greater numbers. It makes me glad I don't live in those places. The place where I am from originally had a few like that, but even then it wasn't nearly as bad. It took a lot of people from Kansas getting in touch with their legislature to get CCL passed for handguns, and now we have open carry in public places passed, regardless of home rule.